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Overcoming Anxiety: Introduction to Mental Wellness
Episode 67th March 2022 • Real Talk: A Diversity in Higher Ed Podcast • Southern Connecticut State University
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KC and Jamil begin to discuss mental health on university campuses and how to take care of ourselves along with our communities featuring guest Micah Wolf.

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Hello everyone, welcome back. Now KC, this has been a project of ours

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for quite some time, and today, we are tackling mental health by popular

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demand. That's right. And actually, Jamil, before we talk about mental health,

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I wanna give a shoutout to some of our listeners who are not

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in the state of Connecticut, they're coming to us from NC State.

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We heard that folks in Res Life at NC State are using our

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podcast to generate conversations, and I think maybe even do trainings.

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Yes, and this is a perfect example of how our content can be

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used, whether that's in your departmental trainings or to generate conversations,

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and all your departments, with students, with faculty, with staff, so hopefully,

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our content is resonating with you all and you are finding it useful.

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Yeah, and shoutout to our friends at NC State. We love you all.

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Yeah. And those of you... If there are listeners out there,

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if you are... You're already using this somehow in your world,

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share with us. We definitely wanna know how this is showing up for

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you, and if you're a listener and that didn't occur to you,

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we invite you to absolutely use this like a... It looks like a podcast

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version of a book club. All through that.

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Yes, programming. Programming. So share this. Share with folks who you think

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could use it. It's a good conversation starter. We'll get the conversation

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started, you carry it out in your circles, in your world,

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so anyway, thank you all to NC State,

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and reach out to us. We wanna hear

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what you wanna hear about how it's going for you, how people are

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responding to the podcast. We love it. So on our conversation today,

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we discuss a lot of things. We have our friends who are coming

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on from the Counseling Services department at our university, talking about

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anxiety. Yeah, we talk a lot... Since the... College student mental health

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has been a problem since before the pandemic, and it's a... People are

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calling it like the twin pandemic along with the COVID 19 one, and

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folks really... We're not seeing... Even with vaccines and all that,

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we're still seeing mental health struggles worsening, we're not seeing those

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get better as we see the pandemic of COVID 19 getting better,

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but depression, stress, anxiety, suicidality, all of that stuff

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is something that's really still deeply impacting students, and

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if you're part of a university community right now, I'm sure you're seeing

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that in your classrooms and in your spaces.

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Yes, and as higher education professionals, that doesn't stop with students,

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that can often extend to staff and faculty themselves. That's true. So we

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talk about ways in which anxiety may show up

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across our community, and how can we work together to combat that,

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how can we support one another, how can you support your students who

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may be going through a difficult time during their undergrad or grad process,

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and we know for students that anxiety, depression and other mental

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disorders can really hurt a student's ability to show up in the classroom

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and be successful, and so hopefully, in this episode, we are able to

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give you some tips and some tricks around how to combat this and

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really how to be happier in your environment

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and get the resources that a lot of our universities have.

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Yes, we love talking with Micah, it was sort of like a mental

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health session for both of us, he lowered our blood pressure.

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So anyway, enjoy this conversation with Micah Wolf. Alright, KC, so today,

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mental health. Mental health today and every day. Micah, thank you for being

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here with us today. Micah is a graduate student and an intern

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here at SCSU. He's in Counseling and School Psychology,

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graduating in August, clinical mental health worker, seeing students on

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campus as a counselor in therapy sessions, has previously been an academic

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support coach, and brings with him some really interesting perspectives.

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So Micah, welcome to real talk. We're glad to have you. Thank you

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so much. This is very exciting to be here.

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So I'm thinking we'll start first where... What are some of your experiences

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you're having with students? What is this looking like?

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We can start the conversation kind of off there. Great.

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The experiences I'm having with students suffice to say is wide ranging,

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and to perhaps sound like I'm embellishing here, but

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it's awesome. It's all inspiring. There's a lot of struggle, and we'll talk

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about that surely. And there's also so much growth, insight, sensitivity,

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talent and strength, and there's just a lot of

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relationship and aliveness that I'm able to be privy to and kind of

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help develop with people. I was talking with my students today about this

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episode that we're recording and really realizing how much has changed in

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the conversation around mental health since I was in college 20 years ago.

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I was a mess in a lot of different ways, as... It's like developmentally,

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a challenging time and also an amazing time

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for human beings, but I can just see how

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I just had very little self awareness, the sense of like, "If you're

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struggling, it's your fault." And that still exists, that kind of

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stigma, but just the growing conversation, which is why we're doing

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this episode today, to really continue to expand and normalize conversations

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around mental health and well being. Yeah, that's really important. And

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it is really exciting to see in person and on social media the ever

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increasing awareness of and de stigmatizing of the importance of mental

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health of whole body health of just, again, the community and relationship.

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That's a very refreshing way, I think, of viewing this.

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University can be a very transformative time in one's life. You're... For

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some folks, you're leaving home for the first time, you're moving in, living

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on campus, you're immersing yourself in the culture and a new culture,

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possibly. You're also probably gonna have some new hurdles in your life

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that you may have not had previous. You may have financial hardships,

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you may have academic failures, you may have

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good times and bad times. I used to always talk about my undergrad

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experience being a roller coaster every day. One day you're up,

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next day you're down. It's like rolling with the punches.

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And for some folks, mental health, this may be the first time where

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they're struggling or even thinking about it. Yeah.

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And it might be the first time that they're seeing a need

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to actually reach out due to bad days that seem to go on

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for longer than we're used to, or just additional... All these things you're

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mentioning, all these firsts, all these hurdles, they can really add up

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quickly and we get winded. And it can be embarrassing and take a

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lot of energy to make an appointment or show up to counseling services,

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or to even just mention to to a friend, Hey, I'm struggling.

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Especially if we, speaking of maybe impostor syndrome and things that can

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be rampant everywhere in many ages, all ages and all people.

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If we surround ourselves with support, that can feel great. And yet,

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getting there is not always the easiest or most obvious path.

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Yes. But I know for some folks that go to our university and

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that go to other universities, attending said university is the first time

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they may even have access to counseling. The first time they may have

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access in their life to services. True. And also, they also may be

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in a place where they're away from their family and away from cultural

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stigma. Exactly. Especially for marginalized groups. Folks are not jumping

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to go to therapy. There's a mistrust there culturally. And so now they're

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in a place where they have access and maybe even some of that

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stigma is removed by their peers, by the staff,

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by the overall community encouraging mental health practices, not just with

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counseling services, but with the services of the entire university.

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Yeah. Yeah. And I think about how student academic success

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and mental health and well being, those are inseparable. You can't expect

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a student to be academically successful if they are also

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unwell. And I just... I talked to my students today and asked them

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for any thoughts they wanted to share on the podcast. And

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I wanna read just a couple of these to you.

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So here's one student. "Even though there's not one particular way a college

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student is supposed to act or look like,

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I feel like and look like I'm not supposed to be in college

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at all." And here's another one. "I would say feeling like an impostor

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is a familiar feeling, especially in college. There's so many different

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types of people around you, so you sometimes feel as if you have

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to act a particular way around different people. I've many times felt like

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I'm a high school student pretending to be in college. It feels as

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if everyone else is so far ahead of me, and I'm behind,

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pretending not to be." And then one more

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on the same thing. Yeah, this really... The question about...

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This question about impostor syndrome really resonates with folks. "Most

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of the places I go, I feel like an impostor since I moved

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to the United States. Because of my limited English, I feel like an

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impostor some places I go, and even think I won't ever learn a

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high level of English." It can be... What I hear in this is

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the potential for so much loneliness and isolation and

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difficulty and feeling just what we're trying to, I guess, do today,

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normalized or a person who isn't alone in their pretending.

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And when we're faced with feeling alone, it's pretty hard to...

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What am I saying? To open up or to do anything but kind of dig

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deeper into this hole away from these winds and

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the screaming wind that can be bracing. There is too... And I'm thinking

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particularly about, I guess, 'cause I'm teaching in person this semester,

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so I'm thinking about that and that as a social opportunity

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when we are coming together in the same physical space.

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And also, knowing that here we have a room full of people,

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everybody's feeling lonely or everybody's feeling a sense of being an impostor,

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which actually sort of... If we can really

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break through that and connect with each other,

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we're actually not impostors if everyone is feeling the exact same way.

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And what an opportunity... Truly. In terms of

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dealing with this big societal problem that we have right now about social

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anxiety, isolation. And like any meaningful opportunity, boy can it be scary,

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'cause if you're gonna change that, if you're gonna be in a room

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that's previously a room full of people who are not together,

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albeit literally, they are together, if you're gonna change that to,

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Oh, I see you and you see me,

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that can require a leap of faith, that can require a presence,

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that can be really uncomfortable in us, especially if it's unusual and uncultivated.

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Yeah, something I think of is one of the biggest needs for college

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students is a sense of belonging, and honestly for everyone in the community

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is a sense of belonging, a sense of connection

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that you are wanted here, that if you are not here,

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folks will miss you, they will recognize that you're not there,

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you feel like you're a part of something larger than yourself.

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That typically is what keeps people going to the same job every day,

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going to school every day, that sense of belonging, and it's something as

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people we all look for and we all thrive with.

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And imposter syndrome, I think can be unique, especially for folks that

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are marginalized, and I could think about the first time I felt that

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feeling. So I was coming to Southern, straight out of Bridgeport from a

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straight public public education background, I probably wasn't the most

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academically prepared, and I walked into my first class, I had a philosophy

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class late at night, and I walked in, I was the only person

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of color, and everyone's talking and I'm figuring out I'm the only person

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from Bridgeport, the only person really from urban town. There were all

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these different towns that I've never even heard of in Connecticut, even

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though I've lived here my entire life, and everyone already seemed connected.

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It's almost as if they already knew each other, even though this was

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a first year class, and so immediately I felt

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out of place as if, "Oh, maybe I have

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somehow worked my way into this university, and now everyone's gonna think

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I'm a fraud because I can't academically perform and maybe

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my peers know something I don't." Well, guess what? They did not know

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anything that I did not, I'll tell you that.

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And some of the ways that I really got around that was taking

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up space, sitting in the front row and being vocal

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and being more social and talking more is some of the ways that

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I was able to outgrow that very quickly,

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because if I'm not supposed to be here, we're gonna have a great

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time while we're here at least, is kinda how I was working with

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it at the time, but I think so many students, especially for

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students where university don't feel like a home for them, where their parents

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haven't been there, they're siblings, they have no connection to this experience

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yet, and they're embarking on this for the first time, may find theirselves

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in that space, maybe more than once. And like we always point out

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in this podcast, most students are not like you. This is. So I

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mean for those... And it's still was something major for you to grapple

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with, that feeling of not belonging, and yet you were like 100%

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committed to... You got the most out of this education out of anyone

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I have ever known, you maxed it out. Do not praise me, yeah. You know

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it's true. And there are a lot of people who are just

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more shy, more hesitant, perhaps have less of a support system,

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a lot about who you are as a person contributed, I think,

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to your ability to deal with that and then I... So I'm always

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thinking about, "What about folks who are really just painfully shy and

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anxious? Or who would never sit in the front row? Or who sort

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of shut down when they're faced with challenges?"

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Honestly, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is peer

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support, and I'm thinking a lot about my first year while I'm sitting

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here, and I think about my RAs at the time and the people

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that was on our council, and how they rallied floors and how they

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rallied people that were shy and included them in things,

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so when it's time to go sit in the dining hall,

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when it's time to do a study project, making sure that you're roping

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in everyone, especially younger students, and I remember my first semester

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being very much like that, from older students, being roped in and being

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talked to and being told about, "How does the university work?

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How does my classes work?" Getting support on that end from my peers,

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I received a lot of support from my peers, especially my peers of

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color in the very beginning of my university experience, and I think that

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really helped me feel a sense of belonging very early on,

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also joining clubs and orgs was super helpful.

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Yeah, and I think to Micah's point about how scary that can be

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to take a leap of faith, that's one. What we know

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that joining a collaborate organization, doing meaningful work to you, we

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know that that will make a positive difference in your mental health,

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and yet it is harder to do than it is to

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spend time looking at your phone or come home and watch Netflix,

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that is right there for us, and we think it'll make us feel

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better and it doesn't in the way that

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more meaningful connections with people can. Yeah, I think there's not a

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one solution fix all to anxiety, to depression, to

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any kind of mental health problem we have going on,

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it's not like you gotta join a club and all your problems will

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go away and you will somehow feel magically better overnight. No? I think

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it's... Yeah, no, I don't think it's that simple,

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especially depending on what you're going through at this time 'cause I

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always remember telling students that, "Your life doesn't stop in college,

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while you're in university, while you're taking classes, your life doesn't

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stop because the mid terms are happening, crises don't stop, you

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may have family members die in the middle of mid terms, you may

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be facing a financial hardship in the middle of mid terms and not

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be sure how you're gonna pay next semester." I remember having semesters

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like that. You may be going through all types of things,

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your first break up, the first time you failed a class and maybe

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you were a straight A's student in high school, there could be all

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different kinds of stressors happening, but that's why it's important to

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meet with folks that I would call your advocates,

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that can be folks at the counseling services, that can be maybe a

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faculty member, that can be a peer, like a RA or maybe academic success

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coach, it could be numerous people. I think students should try to find

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a sounding board really early and really lean on them

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and see what kind of guidance they can provide as they

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rough through the waters. I love that sight or that language,

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roughing through the waters, because it can feel insurmountable and like

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you're against so much momentum and cold and alone

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and painful, to that point about we can be painfully shy and shut

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down at challenges. I'm thinking of a previous episode

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where, KC, you were talking about teaching and feeling nervous

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for not only the first class, but all classes in the semester,

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and how there's a real physical response there.

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And until we can really start to help ourselves by finding advocates and

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methods of means of support, there can be a lot of

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pain, quite literally. Yeah. And it can often feel like your fault.

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If this is all new, if people seem like they're

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doing things easily that take you a long time or a lot of

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effort to do, there can be a lot of just internalized

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anger, a lot of just internalized prejudice that we can flip out ourselves

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and just struggle to see how much we've really done to that impostor

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syndrome as well to get to this place, to get to college

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is significant. And to face these questions, it's all so, so much.

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It's so hard at every turn. Yeah. I think so many folks

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perceive maybe other students, their peers to be doing so much better than

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them without realizing that maybe they're having just as hard as a journey.

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Just because that student seems like they are out there and they're really

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social and they have their academics and they're networking and all these

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different things together. And maybe you feel like you're not at that similar

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place, doesn't necessarily mean that that student feels complete as well.

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And when you're going through, especially your undergrad,

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I think it's so important to realize that you're on your own track

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that cannot be compared to other people's. Your track may take you

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five, six years to graduate. Your track may take you a gap year.

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Your track may take you from living on campus to commuting to back

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on campus. There are so many different ways that your university experience

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can be unique to you. Maybe you transfered from three different universities

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previous. There's so many different aspects that go into what makes your

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experience unique. And when you start comparing it to the success of your

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peers, you shortchange yourself. And it's so natural. That's how we learn,

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by observing others. And it just fits, of course.

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It all plays into that feeling of lost. If others seem to know

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what they're doing and you're worried about being exposed as a fraud,

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that's an ongoing struggle. It can be. It truly can be an ongoing

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struggle. And there's peer support groups all throughout universities across

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the country. There's different resources, there's different talks online.

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But honestly, truly, I think it's just something you have to work through

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every day as part of the battle. And I think as we're battling, as

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we're waking up and facing that day and that struggle, we might see,

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after some time, some unexpected changes, progress, just things that we

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might not have expected, some maybe easiness or some new, not only cognitive

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insights, but feelings in our body. Levels of acceptance to the hurt and

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the pain, and new levels of connection and excitement and interest and engagement.

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And from my experience, university can really shape you, especially when

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it comes to your mental health. And you can actually grow tremendously without

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realizing. What I noticed is every semester, when a new semester started,

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I kinda felt the same, maybe a little different, but the same

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and my family would tell me, "No, you're so different. You're growing so

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different." To the point where I didn't have... Never really realized,

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because I was experiencing it. But you have students that are coming in

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potentially with past traumas, with baggage, with things they have experienced,

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coming into this space, having new experiences, but through the support

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of their community, be able to heal and grow from them and walk

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out the other side a better person. So there is always an upside

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to the work you're putting in. Working on your mental health can be

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a hard job, but it's an extremely important job. You can't be a

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rock star student, you can't nail that internship without your peace of

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mind. My mom used to always tell me, "You can't put a price

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on peace of mind." And I know what she's talking about

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now. Micah, I wonder, as we wrap our interview up, if...

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You've been here for a couple years and in a few different roles,

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and I really appreciate your attention to and focus on the body in

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these conversations about mental health, 'cause a lot of times...

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Universities traditionally haven't particularly considered the body. It's

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about like, "You're a scholar, which is the life of the mind,

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and your mental health, that's up in your mind."

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But I wonder how... What you think, whether students,

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faculty in the classroom, spaces on campus, how can we... What are some

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things that we can do, depending on where we are, to better support

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student's body, mind and spirit? And each other. I shouldn't say just students.

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Everyone. I love that. And I'm gonna kind of

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fuse that question or my answer to that with what Jamil was just

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saying about walking through... I'm not sure. Walking through the door,

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walking to the other side of the experience. We are the people who

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do have to do the walking, each one of us, in our own

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journey. And yet, boy, can we not do that alone,

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and have we only gotten here on the shoulders of those before us.

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I think it's helpful to remember when I was joining this program that

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I'm in, the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Track at Southern,

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previously counseling had been described as empowering a client,

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and recently it's changed to helping a client empower

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themself. And there's a small shift there, but it's a pretty critical one

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in that we need community and support, and

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we also are the people showing up as well.

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So how can we be a support to others? I think to maybe

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be a little obvious, we have to be that support to ourself,

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get sleep, drink water, learn as you can

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intuitive approaches to ways to nourish yourself with food and outdoors,

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and notice with gentle open minded curiosity as much as you can

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what it's like to look someone in the eyes without expectation,

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that might be impossible, notice thoughts that accompany such moments, maybe

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thoughts like, "Oh no, they're staring at me." Or, "Oh, no, they think

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I'm staring at them." Or, "I look this way, or... "

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There's always thoughts, and yet there can also be openness, a parallel

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track in that experience. And in helping people find support or feel support,

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just to feel seen, there can be assistance in helping ourselves

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see people in the first place, see ourselves in the first place.

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Have the space and openness and curiosity and just warmth, just warmth

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that allows for someone to be seen in the first place.

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So there's institutional and larger systemic needs to help support and

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provide equity to institutions of higher learning as well as many other

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areas, and on this more personal micro level,

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there can be a lot of adaptation and

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experimentation and play with just how to be available to a person,

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including ourself. And even how you're talking about the body, I'm thinking

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about holistic, like treating your holistic self and not just your mental

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health. And that could be through many things, maybe getting a fitness program

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with your university gym and going on the treadmill for an hour a

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day. It could be making sure you're eating

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three meals a day. So many students work multiple jobs

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and they have classes, they have internships, they may be skipping meals

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to catch up on time and the toll that may take on your

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mental health. So making sure you're feeding your body so you can feed

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your mind, making sure you are working on your body so you can

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feel good about yourself, you can feel clearer, you can have some more

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peace, maybe even dabbling in meditation or some of the other

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more practices that your university may offer. There typically tends to

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be people on campus that puts on yoga events sometimes, or

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full body scans, which can be very relaxing.

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There's so many ways to work on your mental health

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that students may not be thinking about, but can make

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drastic differences. Oh my gosh, I love what you're saying. There are so

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many surprisingly small things that can provide drastic differences. I would

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like to also just, maybe caution is too strong a word,

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but be in the corner of all of these people listening who might

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want this promised clarity and peace and find it really hard to get

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to. Maybe to a place of eating three square meals a day or

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maybe getting caught up in, "Oh, I should do

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these things, go outside, exercise, sleep well, reach out to friends,

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not isolate, I should, I should, I should." Should's can sometimes really

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bring a lot of expectations and added hardship, and if there's any ability

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to have any kind of just compassion for the effort that we're putting

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forward as is, that's awesome. I think living intuitively

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is a gentle and wise approach, and that doesn't always mean that life

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is gonna remain gentle, but that approach is, I think often,

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again, always adapting and holistic kind of approach.

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Yes, that progress looks unique to one's own self, it does.

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What one person's doing to improve their mental help will look drastically

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different from you. But what the major step for you will look completely

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different from somebody else. It can look very small to someone else,

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but be a major step in the right direction for you.

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I think it's all customizing how you want to improve

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what's happening and taking it day by day, having it on a

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day by day. Yes. And that piece of having a little bit of

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space and some compassion for yourself and curiosity,

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because I think I've been certainly the person who like you can shade yourself

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to death and just beat up on yourself for not doing the thing

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you know you're supposed to do, and that can just stop you all together.

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Exactly. So sometimes whatever it is, drinking enough water, you know, small

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things, I know that Jamil and I both

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especially lately, I don't know if I should talk about our personal business,

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but we've both have had trouble sleeping. And

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Jamil will say like, "KC, wow, you are stressed." Or, "You're cranky."

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And if I look at the actual conditions of my life,

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things are good, things are manageable, things are exciting,

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and I know that I haven't gotten good sleep for three nights in

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a row, and that's where that comes from. So if I can address

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the sleep piece, all of a sudden everything else becomes easier.

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So it's not necessarily always about adding more. Yes. And I'm not gonna

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lie, sometimes things just feel better in community. You can't sleep, your

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friend can't sleep. You didn't sleep nicely. You can't sleep together.

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Having a person to talk with, to relate to, to deal with your

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mental health with at the same time, which

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possibly can be overwhelming, but if it's doable can be really healing for

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a person and feel like you're not alone.

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So having a friend on your journey or multiple friends on that journey

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with you can be a benefit at times.

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And I think to grow is to shed skin and have raw surfaces

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and there can be vulnerability and pain and discomfort.

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And part of the process coming to counseling or just I think as

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a person is I think learning to distract and heal and self soothe

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despite these basically guaranteed discomforts and difficulties in life,

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and we could also ride the wave, so to speak and

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live into and through these difficulties as well,

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it's helpful to learn ways to survive them, and

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it's a place where we can also play and go further than that,

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and really live as embodied as possible in a world that has a

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lot of suffering. Self soothe, that's a wonderful way of putting it. That's

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a really lovely way of putting it, that's very realistic. Micah, just thank

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you so much for being here with us today. Actually, I literally feel

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like my blood pressure is lower after spending time with you and I

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usually... And I can tell, Jamil is like more relaxed too. But we

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usually sort of recording episodes, it's sort of

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anxiety producing in a lot of ways, but truly like your presence.

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I can see that you would be very good at your job,

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because I can feel that even just from recording this with you,

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so thank you. Thank you so much for saying that, I love hearing

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that. And to show you, to self disclose

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just how typical your experience probably is as soon as we were talking

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for a moment, and as soon as that record 3,2,1 showed up on

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the screen, my heart rate increased and my blood pressure increased,

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I was very aware of that. It's just so human. These are the

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inevitable things that we're riding and running and moving through and with

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alongside into. This is lovely. KC, you are right, this feels like the

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most relaxed episode I have recorded. Yes. Yes. You have the perfect voice

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for narration, you know? Thank you. It's like an audiobook. Yes,

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thanks, Micah. So this has been great. You're so welcome. A real honor

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and privilege and pleasure to be here. Alright, Jamil, so

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for the ending note for this episode, you haven't actually heard this clip

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yet, but Madeleine Shaw, who was really the inspiration for this episode

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and others on mental health, she sent in a clip that I think

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is a really nice note to end our conversation on today.

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So you're the one who's gonna hit play, but this is something you're

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hearing for the first time, her words for us. It is.

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Well, let's listen. I just wanted to share a message of hope.

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This message is for everyone listening, when I need to remind myself of

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this truth, be okay with not being okay,

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forgive yourself and realize whatever is happening, you will be alright.

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It's the little mantra I like to tell myself is, I am alright, I

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am okay. And sometimes I laugh when I say it because it doesn't

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feel honest or true. However, this feeling of being well

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and alright may just be a moment. When I'm cooking my favorite meal

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or finishing my last exam for a semester,

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and this moment can only last a minute but it's a break in

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whatever is happening for you. If you collect enough okay moments in your

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day, you have a good day and a few good days turn to

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a week, a good week, a few good, those weeks turn into a

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month. And it's easy to say all these things, right?

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Easier to say it removed from what's really happening

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but trust me, when I say I've had the best of times and

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the worst of times, and I speak from true experience, understanding and

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knowing. One final thought I wanna share, it's actually a quote I have

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sticked onto my mirror with a post it,

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that no matter what happens, the sun will rise in the morning,

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that's from President Barack Obama, not me. But these words still ring true

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for me. No matter what happens, how you're feeling what's going on,

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know that you are not alone, and the sun

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is faithful and will always rise in the morning.

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And that is the whole clip. It kinda sounds like she's auditioning

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for a podcast house. I could just listen to her like a meditation

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tape, I love it. A tape. Well, I think what she's saying rings true, right?

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Taking things day by day, focusing on the good over the bad moments

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of a day, practicing stillness, trying to do things that are within your

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control. Yeah, I'm often grateful too for the reset of another day,

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it's like sometimes you just need to go to sleep

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and another day is another day. Another day is another day. Yeah.

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Alright, well, to be continued, conversations about mental health.

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So thank you to Madeleine Shaw, thanks to Micah, thanks always to Jamil,

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of course. Well, thank you to you as well. But before we go... Yeah, before

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we go. We did wanna say, if you're at our university or you're

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at your university, I'm sure there are resources for you. Ours are the

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counseling services, we're talking the Wellness Center, we're talking

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the disability resource center, we're talking Dean of students, there are

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plenty of resources at our university and I suggest looking for them at

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yours. In addition to that, if you are struggling with mental health,

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the suicide hotline, the national suicide hotline number is 800 273 8255.

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Yes, and if you enjoyed this conversation and we hope you did,

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you can follow us on social media, Instagram @realtalkhighered, also on

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Twitter. Follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, rate and review, we wanna

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