Do you find yourself solving the wrong problems in your business? Or maybe solving the right problems, but in the wrong order?

In this episode of "The Business You Really Want," hosts Gwen Bortner and Tonya Kubo discuss the importance of identifying and solving the right problems in the right order. This episode dives into the common pitfalls business owners face when trying to fix issues, the difference between symptoms and root causes, and how solving problems in the wrong order can lead to wasted time, resources, and frustration.

Here’s what you can expect in this episode:

• 2:38 - Why the order in which you solve problems matters
• 6:02 - Finding someone who can own the problem - and the solution
• 9:12 - Identifying root causes versus treating symptoms
• 13:17 - The impact of solving problems in the wrong order
• 16:21 - How to prioritize problems as a business owner
• 21:25 - Mindset shift and asking the right questions 
• 25:11 - Look outside the “vertical path” of the problem

Key Takeaways:

• Avoid rework by solving problems in the right order: Understand that solving issues out of sequence can lead to more work and wasted resources.
• Identify root causes, not just symptoms: Go beyond the surface to understand what is really causing your business challenges.
• Get outside perspective: Sometimes, having someone from outside your organization or a new team member can provide the clarity needed to identify the real issue.
• Ask better questions: Instead of just asking "what" or "why," ask "does it have to be this way?" to open up new possibilities and solutions.
• Prioritize effectively: Use a checklist or a set of criteria to help prioritize which problems to solve first for maximum impact.

Ready to tackle your business problems more effectively? Try this:

1. Name the problem clearly: Define the issue you’re facing in a specific and concise manner.
2. Assess the impact: Detail the impact of  the problem on your business operations, including costs and lost opportunities.
3. Identify root causes: Look beyond the obvious symptoms to find the underlying causes of the problem.
4. Seek external feedback: Engage with a mentor, coach, or peer to gain an outside perspective on the problem and potential solutions.

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE

Gwen’s Small Business Book Club recently discussed A Beautiful Constraint by Adam Morgan and Mark Barden: https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Constraint-Transform-Limitations-Advantages-ebook/dp/B00QL30Q90

Wonder which experts Gwen and Tonya leaned on for the rebrand of Everyday Effectiveness and the branding of The Business You Really Want? Here are the service providers who have contributed to the project:

• Logos and primary brand - https://www.boumadesignco.com/
• Assets and brand expansion - https://authenticvisionmedia.com/
• Podcast assets - https://www.evokemedialabs.com/

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review!

Also, be sure to check out Episode 9, where we delve into building a resilient business model that can weather any storm.

Gwen Episode 8: When we started the

business, we wanted to make sure that we

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were, we delivered within five minutes.

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But the question becomes, does anyone

actually need it delivered in five

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minutes, or if it's delivered in 24

hours, is that more than enough time

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EPISODE 7 TONYA: Are you feeling

overwhelmed, stuck, or uncertain about

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how to grow your business without

sacrificing what really matters most?

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Welcome to The Business You Really

Want, the show for women ready to build

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a sustainable, fully aligned business.

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Aligned with what, you ask?

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You.

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Your values.

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Your life.

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Seriously.

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It is possible.

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I'm Tonya Kubo, and along with

business advisor extraordinaire Gwynn

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Bortner, we're here to show you how.

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Tonya Episode 8: Tanya Kubo here with

operations expert extraordinaire,

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or at least my favorite operations

expert, and Everyday Effectiveness CEO,

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Gwen Bortner.

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And today, Gwen, I have a tricky

little topic to discuss with you.

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I want to talk about solving the right

problems in the right order, because I

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feel like often times, we What I hear,

at least on the marketing front, right,

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is, you know, what are we solving for?

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Are we solving for the right problem?

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Let's dig deeper and make sure that

we're solving the right problem because

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solving the wrong problem just takes you

down a path that nobody wants to go on.

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And something that you have taught

me is it's not just about solving the

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right problem, but it's also solving

the problems in the correct order.

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So maybe just open us up by

explaining why that's so important.

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Gwen Episode 8: The

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biggest reason that the order that

we solve the problems, um, is it,

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you know, is important is because

it helps, I'm going to say minimize,

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I'm not going to say eliminate,

but it helps minimize rework.

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So, so that we aren't

actually solving a thing,

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then coming over here and saying,

oh, that fix over here wasn't

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really quite the fix that we needed.

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We needed to do something else.

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Whereas if we would have done this other

thing first, we would have just done

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the one fix over here instead of fixing

this other thing maybe two or three or

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four times, you know, and, you know, a

great example that we see a lot in the

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entrepreneurial world is, um, buying

a piece of software and saying, Right?

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The, the symptom is, um, you know,

something's not working, so I'm

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going to buy a piece, I'm going to

buy a new piece of software that

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that's gonna, that's gonna fix it.

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It's like, uh, is that really the problem?

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And then, you know, we work through

things, we get down to some other cause,

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and it's like, oh no, this is the problem.

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It's like, oh yeah, now that software

isn't the right software, and we're

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gonna have to make another fix.

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And it doesn't happen a lot, but

sometimes it's like, and we're

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gonna go back to where we started.

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And so now all of the process of changing

over to a new software and then changing

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back to the original, that's a lot

of wasted time and effort and rework.

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And, you know, I'm not saying this

happens 85 or 90 percent of the time

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of this specific example, but it's not

uncommon to see, Oh, we made decisions

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and did things, and now we have to make.

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So we can make new decisions and do

some of the same things again, and so

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now we're, now we're duplicating time

and effort and, you know, time, quite

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honestly, is our most precious resource.

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Tonya Episode 8: Right.

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Well, and I'm, you know, what that

reminds me of, that's a, actually

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a really good example because it

reminds me of the recent re brand

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that we worked on together, right?

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So we, I, I feel the need to

tell everybody about my very

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optimistic view here, okay?

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I had an optimistic vision.

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We had a logo, we had colors, we had

fonts, we had a whole brand thing,

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and it just wasn't quite right.

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You know,

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the solution to it not being quite right

is to hire a designer who specializes

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in taking a brand that you love that's

not quite right and making it right.

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Except it took, I don't even think

it took a full session with her for

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you to recognize Gwen that it wasn't

that the brand wasn't quite right.

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You didn't love it at all.

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And then we had to stop.

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And there was this part of

me that was like, no, no, no.

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I have the wheels in motion.

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I've set my dates.

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I've set my timelines.

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I want to, you know, let's keep going.

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And you had to go, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.

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If we keep going, we are going

to end up with something we hate.

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We hate.

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Well, right now we just

don't quite love it.

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So let's stop here.

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Let's figure out what it is

that we'll love and then let's

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pick the project back up.

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And it did take time and it did, you

know, it pushed it probably the timeline

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back maybe a month But I think we would

both agree that we let two months fine

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two months, you know my memory it just

gets Things are so much beautifuller

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and easier when I think about them,

uh, than they are in reality sometimes.

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But we landed in a better place, right?

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Because we solved, it wasn't just

solving the right problem, right?

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Because we knew we had a brand problem.

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Having to solve it in the right order.

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Gwen Episode 8: yeah, because

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the thing, you know, this really is a

great example that we've been, we've

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been living with, right, in a very

real and active, you know, sort of way.

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It is.

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I've gone through this process

several times and part of the

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reason in from my perspective is

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one of the root cause issues has

been not having someone owning all of

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the aspects of the brand marketing.

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piece that really owned it in

the same way I should own it.

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Like I was able to truly delegate it to

you and that you're making decisions.

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very, very, very closely to the same

way I would make decisions, because

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you've been with me long enough, you've

taken long enough, that, that you really

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understand my point of view, instead of

it just being someone who said, well,

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this is, this really is a good answer.

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This is a right answer.

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Not.

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Not saying it's a right answer for me.

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And so the root cause wasn't that I

didn't hire good people and that it

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wasn't any of those individual things.

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The root cause was not having the

central hub that was paying attention

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to all of the pieces going on.

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And, and to me, that's where, where,

why the difference is so important is

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If I would have just hired our brand

extension person, um, in the way that

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I have done in the past, we, we would

have had the, the typical issue at

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some point to be like, yeah, it's fine.

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That'd make me really happy.

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I don't think it's quite, quite right.

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Um, and it doesn't necessarily resonate,

doesn't necessarily say all the things

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that, that it's supposed to say.

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So it's not like that I've used.

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Bad people, but I miss, I've

missed the root cause in this case.

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And the root cause being not having a,

a true unified message view of, of the

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whole picture of what we're trying to do.

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Tonya Episode 8: All right.

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So, so then that's a good example.

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Like what I'd like to do is,

so I think that's a really

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good sort of marketing example.

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And I think marketing is an area

where we oftentimes solve symptoms

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versus looking for a root cause.

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Um,

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but I think one sort of one area which

I bet touches the lives of every single

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person listening is cashflow issues.

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So With cash flow, um, am I

the only person who sees this?

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Like, I feel like people oftentimes are

just looking at the surface income and

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expenses and oftentimes what drives a

cash flow issue is something deeper.

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Do you want to talk a

little bit more about that?

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Gwen Episode 8: I, you know,

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I love numbers and I love cashflow

and it is, I agree with you.

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I do think it's something that affects.

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Businesses at some point in time, not

always and not forever, but, but a lot

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of businesses have it and, and, you know,

we've talked about it before, you know,

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in, in the podcast, cause it, cause it is,

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it is a bit ubiquitous within, you

know, the industry that we're having

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to deal with it at some point in time.

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And.

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The, the common thought, um, that I see

is if we're having a problem with cash

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flow, we need to sell more because,

cause we think of that cashflow is we

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need more money and when I say money,

the first place anybody's brain goes,

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including my own, is sell more, right?

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Um, create more income.

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We need more money, create more income.

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That's a, that's a very logical

place to go, but that is potentially

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a symptom necessarily what's

causing the cashflow problem.

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And so this is where going into the,

looking at where there's actually the

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root cause can make a huge difference

because sometimes selling more isn't

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actually going to be the problem.

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For example, this is an extreme

example, but if it costs you 10

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to your widget that you're selling

costs 10, you're selling it for 9?

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Selling a hundred more is not

going to help your cash flow

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and not make it up in volume.

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Tonya Episode 8: Okay,

so that's an example

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of.

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Gwen Episode 8: You're going

to lose a hundred dollars.

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Tonya Episode 8: Right, so that's

an example of, it seems like a

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cash flow issue, but really it's

a pricing issue in that case.

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Mm,

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Gwen Episode 8: a, it's a price

issue or a cost of production issue.

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Um,

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Tonya Episode 8: okay, yeah,

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Gwen Episode 8: Right, because maybe

you're able to change a production

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behavior or a supplier or something,

you know, some other element and

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actually get it down to a cost where

now selling a hundred versus one

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actually is making you more money.

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So, so that's one, one example

of the cash flow problem.

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But the other is sometimes your, um, the,

the term I like to use is leaking money.

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I like to think of it as a bucket.

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Right?

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That there's money coming

in at the top, like water.

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And, um, if your bucket is solid,

then, then you're, you're taking

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money out with very specific choices.

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Right?

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So the money comes out here and it

comes out here, but sometimes you've

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got some little holes in the bottom of

your bucket and pinholes are the worst

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because they don't seem like very much.

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They're little, little tiny holes

and it's just going to drip down.

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And it doesn't seem, it's like,

well, that's not that big of a deal.

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This is not that big of a deal.

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But the problem with pinholes is

pinholes can become real holes

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and real holes can become bigger

and bigger and bigger and bigger.

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And so where are potentially the, the

leaks in your overall business model?

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It could be leaks in

effectiveness in people.

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It could be leaks in apps that you're

paying for that you're no longer using.

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It, you know, it could, there,

there's all sorts of places

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that could, could be leaks.

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The other cashflow issue is what I call

the, the, the Peter Paul issue, which

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is you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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And so it feels like we

are supportive, but really.

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We're paying for yesterday's product with

today's money, and we don't actually have

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today's money to pay for today's product.

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And so, so we're always running, you

know, we're getting further and further

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and further behind over time, um,

because We keep trying to sell more

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and more and more and more hoping that

that will allow us to catch up but

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we're, we're always behind eight ball

and we're never actually catching up.

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So all of those are cash flow issues.

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They are very, very different cash

flow issues and pretty much for

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the most part putting more money

in doesn't solve any of them.

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Tonya Episode 8: right.

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Okay, so I think that's a

really good illustration.

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In terms of showcasing sort of

the difference between having a

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symptom that you're solving and then

actually like digging deeper into

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the root cause and solving that.

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Could you, and I'm going to put you

on the spot here, uh, but could you

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give us an example or maybe walk, walk

me through the process of addressing

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how addressing a problem in the

wrong order would impact a business?

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Gwen Episode 8: Yeah, so let's say

that where we think the issue is, is

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that we have hired the wrong people.

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Tonya Episode 8: Okay.

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Gwen Episode 8: Okay?

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Tonya Episode 8: I've been there.

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. Mm-Hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: yeah, right?

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And so, so our cash flow issue

is, we think, a people issue.

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That the people that we've hired

are not the right people and they're

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not actually working effectively.

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Tonya Episode 8: Okay.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: Um, and

so we let those people go.

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And then we hire new people, and

then we have the same problem

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again, and then we let those people

go, and we hire new people, and

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we have the same problem again.

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Tonya Episode 8: And at what point do I

do I let the hiring manager go because I

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blame them for hiring the wrong people.

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Gwen Episode 8: Well,

and often that's us, so.

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Tonya Episode 8: Yeah.

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I know.

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I know.

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Mm-Hmm?

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Gwen Episode 8: Um, and so, so

we think it's a people issue.

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: because they're

not performing at the level

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that we expect them to perform.

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But in this case, where, where often

it is, is it's a process issue.

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It's a communications issue.

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There's all sorts of other

things that could be driving that

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particular cash flow issue, because

it is still a cash flow issue.

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We're, you know, we're paying for

eight hours of work a day, and we feel

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like we're only getting three or four,

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: right?

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But it's not actually because of the

People that we hired, it's because

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our systems aren't working in the way

that we think they really should be.

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For instance, they have to hand

it off and then it comes back

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and then they hand it off and it

comes back and they hand it off.

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Every time that it's, you know,

being a handoff in this case,

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we're, we're losing productivity.

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Where maybe the right answer is, yeah,

you actually only need this person

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half time and you need this person

half time, but this person works half

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time in the morning and this person

works half time in the afternoon.

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They don't both work full time all day

going back and forth and back and forth

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and back and forth and back and forth.

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Okay.

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Um, not, not a perfect example, but that's

a process issue, not a people issue.

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And if you got it fixed, you would

have found that your first set of

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people were also the right people.

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now we spent a lot onboarding,

offboarding, hiring, unhiring,

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rehiring, you know, piece

because it wasn't actually.

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a people issue.

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It was a process issue.

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Tonya Episode 8: Okay.

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So

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what, what can I do as a business owner?

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Like, are there questions

that I could ask myself?

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Is there maybe, I don't know, a

five point checklist I could go

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through that would help me to know

whether I'm prioritizing my business

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problems effectively or accurately.

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Gwen Episode 8: So

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this is going to sound like a really

self serving answer, but it's not.

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It's, it's a real true thing is it's

really hard to do this by yourself.

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Tonya Episode 8: Okay.

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Gwen Episode 8: Okay.

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Um,

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because, uh, you know, we use the

phrase around here a lot, you can't

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read the label inside the jar.

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: um, and,

and that's, that's true.

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And so a lot of times you can't see That

there would be a different way than going

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back and forth between these people.

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It just, it just, it, you

can't even conceive of it.

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And so, you're never going

to find that problem.

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Um, this is where having someone who comes

in from an outside and says, So, why does

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this get passed back and forth, you know,

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: Couldn't this person

just spend the morning doing this

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and this person do the afternoon?

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And then by the end of the day,

we would deliver this product, you

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know, whatever, whatever it happens

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: When we started the

business, we wanted to make sure that we

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were, we delivered within five minutes.

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But the question becomes, does anyone

actually need it delivered in five

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minutes, or if it's delivered in 24

hours, is that more than enough time?

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Right?

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But the owner who.

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really loved the fact that they

were delivering in five minutes,

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probably is never going to

ask themselves that question.

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

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Gwen Episode 8: And they can't

conceive of asking that question.

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But when someone on the outside says, so

why is five minutes better than 24 hours?

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They often can't actually answer that.

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Tonya Episode 8: Right.

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Gwen Episode 8: or they can, but

when you say, but at this price.

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Does, does that actually make sense?

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It was like, oh, well, maybe not.

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You know, I mean, so then there'd

be other, other questions.

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And so I don't feel like

there's an absolute piece.

321

I will say the best way to do it

is to work with someone either

322

outside the organization or

brand new to the organization.

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

324

Gwen Episode 8: Because new people,

if they're really encouraged to

325

ask the questions and say, so

why, why do we go back and forth?

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You know, you hire the, you

know, these new people that we're

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

328

Gwen Episode 8: And they, they start

asking the questions like, Wouldn't

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it be easier if like, I worked on this

for, you know, a morning and then they

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worked on it for an afternoon, you know,

and, and the question comes up, then all

331

of a sudden it's like, oh, well, yeah,

maybe that actually is the right answer.

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Tonya Episode 8: Right.

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Gwen Episode 8: The outside

perspective is so important.

334

It doesn't have to come from, you know,

a paid consultant, but it does need

335

to be someone who's not so ingrained.

336

It also, if you've got a big

enough organization, it can

337

come from another department.

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They're not as familiar with the

nuances and the details, but rare.

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It's really, really hard because,

you know, we work together.

340

I can't do it for my own business either.

341

Even though I do this

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Tonya Episode 8: Right.

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Well, and I think, you know, some

things that I, like, I'm trying

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to think of how to put this.

345

I do think, if you're listening

to this and you're going, okay.

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Because part of it is you have to even

know, like, if I was to work on this

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with a peer, right, what questions

should my peer ask me in order to

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help me come to the right conclusion?

349

And so I think the first thing,

what I'm hearing you say is, okay,

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so the first thing we have to do

is we have to name the problem.

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And we have to get clear and we

have to get succinct about it.

352

And then I think we need to, the

second thing we would need to do

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then is, We then need to detail

the impact of the problem, right?

354

So, so the problem is, is we keep

hiring folks and nobody is working out.

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Okay, so what's the impact of that?

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Well, there's the training time.

357

All this lost productivity and training

time takes a boatload of time to, you

358

know, reevaluate the job description,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Okay, and then also

they're not working out.

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What does that mean?

361

What does that look like?

362

What's the impact of them not working out?

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Like whatever they're doing

that's not working out.

364

And then from there, I think it's a matter

of going, okay, and what drives that?

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Okay.

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Is that necessary?

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Like, I think what the question that

I don't think business owners ask

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themselves enough, we ask ourselves a

lot of what questions we ask ourselves,

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a lot of why questions, but I don't know

that we never, we ever ask ourselves,

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but does it have to be that way?

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Gwen Episode 8: you know, we,

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we were just having a conversation as

part of the small business book club

373

Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm,

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Gwen Episode 8: a beautiful constraint.

375

And one of the pieces

that came out of that is.

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Instead of saying what's stopping us,

it is the phrase, we could if, or we

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can if, or a version of we can if.

378

And so, uh, I, I really think the

way you're talking about there is,

379

is, is that same mindset shift,

uh, of saying, okay, how, you know,

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these people can be more effective.

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Yeah.

382

If, we can if, they can if,

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and and saying, well, they can

if, um, you know, we extend the

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line, the, the, the delivery time.

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They can if, right?

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And, and I think that really is the

place that you start looking for the,

387

for the root cause to, because in the

process of this can if, all of a sudden

388

it's like, oh, by changing this element,

389

Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,

390

Gwen Episode 8: is.

391

Often way down the line in this

process, we say, Oh, well, that

392

changes all of these other things.

393

And we can start in our mind saying,

Oh, well, we can look through them.

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Yeah.

395

Let that's worth a try.

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Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm, mm

397

Gwen Episode 8: Let's do, let's do that.

398

And then we can start seeing

that change in evaluation of,

399

of what's, of what's happening.

400

Right.

401

Tonya Episode 8: hmm, mm

402

Gwen Episode 8: And, and I do, I

do think your point is you've got

403

to have someone that's asking you.

404

a question that you

wouldn't typically ask,

405

Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,

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Gwen Episode 8: right?

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And that you also need to be thinking

about not always about why it

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wouldn't work, but how it could work

409

Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,

mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm,

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Gwen Episode 8: because that gets

us into a more, more creative place.

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And, and, you know, I've, I've

talked about it often that

412

part of my, my success is.

413

I have seen so many things that

work, I can come up with a list

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of alternatives really fast, that

often the person I'm working with

415

has never even seen or heard of.

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And so it, it just doesn't occur to them.

417

But you could get there with

this kind of can if Process.

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Tonya Episode 8: And we're better

off getting perspective from somebody

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who actually has no idea what we do

because then they won't carry the

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same default assumptions we carry.

421

Gwen Episode 8: Yeah.

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You, you and I have both seen that in

our, our group quarterly program that

423

we, we've had where there have been

folks that are in similar industries

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.

425

Gwen Episode 8: that are in com don't

know a thing about that industry.

426

And often in the the small group

conversations, people come back

427

and it's like, well, I didn't think

I could be of any value, but they

428

loved my question because they

came at it from a complete novice.

429

perspective.

430

They asked a question that no one in

their industry would have ever asked.

431

Tonya Episode 8: All right.

432

Yeah.

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No, that is, that is

something we do hear a lot.

434

Okay.

435

So what I would like for you to

do, Gwen, now, because, um, I

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mean, I feel like we've really

covered this topic really well.

437

And so I feel like this

is a good place to end.

438

But If somebody were to pick up just

right now, what would be the two to

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three things that you think would be

best for them to jot down to not forget?

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Gwen Episode 8: So, thing

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number one is, rarely the way

the problem is presenting, The

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symptom is rarely the actual cause.

443

There's almost always something deeper.

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Sometimes it's in what I

would call a direct line.

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Um, you know, that this thing it's

because of this, this, this, Oh, here's

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the root cause it's fairly, fairly

straightforward, but more often than not,

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because operations is such an integrated.

448

the actual root cause is somewhere way off

in what we would call another department

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or another, you know, So don't get too

stuck on staying in, you know, I'll call

450

the vertical path of the problem, right?

451

So if you're seeing the symptom,

realize it's pro so one is it's

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probably not the root cause.

453

It can be, usually not.

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Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.

455

Gwen Episode 8: And look, the second thing

would be don't just look in that obvious

456

line of process, but, but look, Outside

and say, are there other, other places?

457

And then the third thing I would, I

would say is try to get perspective

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from someone that you trust, but

who isn't necessarily deeply.

459

Embedded in your business.

460

It can be a new employee.

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It can be an outside consultant.

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It can be a peer.

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Um, you know and from a networking

group that has a different

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a different perspective.

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There's lots of places that you can get

it Um, but but be prepared to ask and

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answer hard questions and be asking The,

the positive, what if this wasn't true?

467

What, what can we do if?

468

What can we do if?

469

What can we do if?

470

I really think those are the,

those are the three biggies.

471

Tonya Episode 8: Okay.

472

Okay.

473

Those sound great.

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Um, thank you for walking us through that.

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Now, what I would ask is, anybody

listening to the show, I would love

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for you to email me specifically

tonya@everydayeffectiveness.com.

477

That's T-O-N-Y-A at

everyday effectiveness com.

478

And I would love to know who do you

get this kind of perspective from?

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If there's an example that you have from

your own business where you discovered

480

after the fact you were solving either

the wrong problem entirely or you were

481

solving the right problem but you were

solving it in the wrong order, we'd love

482

to hear those examples from you and use

those maybe in a future show or to even

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build out resources for future listeners.

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And uh, thank you Gwen, thank

you for being here, thank you for

485

walking us through this process.

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It's a little, it's a little high

level for me but I think, I feel

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like you helped me understand.