Do you find yourself solving the wrong problems in your business? Or maybe solving the right problems, but in the wrong order?
In this episode of "The Business You Really Want," hosts Gwen Bortner and Tonya Kubo discuss the importance of identifying and solving the right problems in the right order. This episode dives into the common pitfalls business owners face when trying to fix issues, the difference between symptoms and root causes, and how solving problems in the wrong order can lead to wasted time, resources, and frustration.
Here’s what you can expect in this episode:
Key Takeaways:
Ready to tackle your business problems more effectively? Try this:
MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE
Gwen’s Small Business Book Club recently discussed A Beautiful Constraint by Adam Morgan and Mark Barden: https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Constraint-Transform-Limitations-Advantages-ebook/dp/B00QL30Q90
Wonder which experts Gwen and Tonya leaned on for the rebrand of Everyday Effectiveness and the branding of The Business You Really Want? Here are the service providers who have contributed to the project:
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review!
Also, be sure to check out Episode 9, where we delve into building a resilient business model that can weather any storm.
Gwen Episode 8: When we started the
business, we wanted to make sure that we
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:were, we delivered within five minutes.
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:But the question becomes, does anyone
actually need it delivered in five
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:minutes, or if it's delivered in 24
hours, is that more than enough time
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:EPISODE 7 TONYA: Are you feeling
overwhelmed, stuck, or uncertain about
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:how to grow your business without
sacrificing what really matters most?
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:Welcome to The Business You Really
Want, the show for women ready to build
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:a sustainable, fully aligned business.
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:Aligned with what, you ask?
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:You.
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:Your values.
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:Your life.
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:Seriously.
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:It is possible.
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:I'm Tonya Kubo, and along with
business advisor extraordinaire Gwynn
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:Bortner, we're here to show you how.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Tanya Kubo here with
operations expert extraordinaire,
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:or at least my favorite operations
expert, and Everyday Effectiveness CEO,
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:Gwen Bortner.
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:And today, Gwen, I have a tricky
little topic to discuss with you.
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:I want to talk about solving the right
problems in the right order, because I
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:feel like often times, we What I hear,
at least on the marketing front, right,
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:is, you know, what are we solving for?
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:Are we solving for the right problem?
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:Let's dig deeper and make sure that
we're solving the right problem because
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:solving the wrong problem just takes you
down a path that nobody wants to go on.
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:And something that you have taught
me is it's not just about solving the
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:right problem, but it's also solving
the problems in the correct order.
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:So maybe just open us up by
explaining why that's so important.
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:Gwen Episode 8: The
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:biggest reason that the order that
we solve the problems, um, is it,
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:you know, is important is because
it helps, I'm going to say minimize,
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:I'm not going to say eliminate,
but it helps minimize rework.
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:So, so that we aren't
actually solving a thing,
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:then coming over here and saying,
oh, that fix over here wasn't
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:really quite the fix that we needed.
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:We needed to do something else.
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:Whereas if we would have done this other
thing first, we would have just done
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:the one fix over here instead of fixing
this other thing maybe two or three or
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:four times, you know, and, you know, a
great example that we see a lot in the
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:entrepreneurial world is, um, buying
a piece of software and saying, Right?
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:The, the symptom is, um, you know,
something's not working, so I'm
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:going to buy a piece, I'm going to
buy a new piece of software that
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:that's gonna, that's gonna fix it.
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:It's like, uh, is that really the problem?
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:And then, you know, we work through
things, we get down to some other cause,
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:and it's like, oh no, this is the problem.
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:It's like, oh yeah, now that software
isn't the right software, and we're
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:gonna have to make another fix.
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:And it doesn't happen a lot, but
sometimes it's like, and we're
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:gonna go back to where we started.
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:And so now all of the process of changing
over to a new software and then changing
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:back to the original, that's a lot
of wasted time and effort and rework.
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:And, you know, I'm not saying this
happens 85 or 90 percent of the time
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:of this specific example, but it's not
uncommon to see, Oh, we made decisions
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:and did things, and now we have to make.
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:So we can make new decisions and do
some of the same things again, and so
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:now we're, now we're duplicating time
and effort and, you know, time, quite
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:honestly, is our most precious resource.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Right.
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:Well, and I'm, you know, what that
reminds me of, that's a, actually
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:a really good example because it
reminds me of the recent re brand
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:that we worked on together, right?
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:So we, I, I feel the need to
tell everybody about my very
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:optimistic view here, okay?
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:I had an optimistic vision.
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:We had a logo, we had colors, we had
fonts, we had a whole brand thing,
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:and it just wasn't quite right.
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:You know,
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:the solution to it not being quite right
is to hire a designer who specializes
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:in taking a brand that you love that's
not quite right and making it right.
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:Except it took, I don't even think
it took a full session with her for
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:you to recognize Gwen that it wasn't
that the brand wasn't quite right.
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:You didn't love it at all.
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:And then we had to stop.
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:And there was this part of
me that was like, no, no, no.
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:I have the wheels in motion.
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:I've set my dates.
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:I've set my timelines.
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:I want to, you know, let's keep going.
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:And you had to go, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
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:If we keep going, we are going
to end up with something we hate.
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:We hate.
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:Well, right now we just
don't quite love it.
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:So let's stop here.
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:Let's figure out what it is
that we'll love and then let's
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:pick the project back up.
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:And it did take time and it did, you
know, it pushed it probably the timeline
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:back maybe a month But I think we would
both agree that we let two months fine
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:two months, you know my memory it just
gets Things are so much beautifuller
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:and easier when I think about them,
uh, than they are in reality sometimes.
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:But we landed in a better place, right?
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:Because we solved, it wasn't just
solving the right problem, right?
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:Because we knew we had a brand problem.
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:Having to solve it in the right order.
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:Gwen Episode 8: yeah, because
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:the thing, you know, this really is a
great example that we've been, we've
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:been living with, right, in a very
real and active, you know, sort of way.
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:It is.
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:I've gone through this process
several times and part of the
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:reason in from my perspective is
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:one of the root cause issues has
been not having someone owning all of
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:the aspects of the brand marketing.
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:piece that really owned it in
the same way I should own it.
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:Like I was able to truly delegate it to
you and that you're making decisions.
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:very, very, very closely to the same
way I would make decisions, because
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:you've been with me long enough, you've
taken long enough, that, that you really
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:understand my point of view, instead of
it just being someone who said, well,
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:this is, this really is a good answer.
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:This is a right answer.
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:Not.
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:Not saying it's a right answer for me.
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:And so the root cause wasn't that I
didn't hire good people and that it
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:wasn't any of those individual things.
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:The root cause was not having the
central hub that was paying attention
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:to all of the pieces going on.
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:And, and to me, that's where, where,
why the difference is so important is
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:If I would have just hired our brand
extension person, um, in the way that
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:I have done in the past, we, we would
have had the, the typical issue at
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:some point to be like, yeah, it's fine.
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:That'd make me really happy.
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:I don't think it's quite, quite right.
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:Um, and it doesn't necessarily resonate,
doesn't necessarily say all the things
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:that, that it's supposed to say.
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:So it's not like that I've used.
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:Bad people, but I miss, I've
missed the root cause in this case.
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:And the root cause being not having a,
a true unified message view of, of the
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:whole picture of what we're trying to do.
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:Tonya Episode 8: All right.
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:So, so then that's a good example.
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:Like what I'd like to do is,
so I think that's a really
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:good sort of marketing example.
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:And I think marketing is an area
where we oftentimes solve symptoms
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:versus looking for a root cause.
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:Um,
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:but I think one sort of one area which
I bet touches the lives of every single
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:person listening is cashflow issues.
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:So With cash flow, um, am I
the only person who sees this?
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:Like, I feel like people oftentimes are
just looking at the surface income and
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:expenses and oftentimes what drives a
cash flow issue is something deeper.
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:Do you want to talk a
little bit more about that?
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:Gwen Episode 8: I, you know,
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:I love numbers and I love cashflow
and it is, I agree with you.
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:I do think it's something that affects.
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:Businesses at some point in time, not
always and not forever, but, but a lot
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:of businesses have it and, and, you know,
we've talked about it before, you know,
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:in, in the podcast, cause it, cause it is,
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:it is a bit ubiquitous within, you
know, the industry that we're having
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:to deal with it at some point in time.
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:And.
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:The, the common thought, um, that I see
is if we're having a problem with cash
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:flow, we need to sell more because,
cause we think of that cashflow is we
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:need more money and when I say money,
the first place anybody's brain goes,
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:including my own, is sell more, right?
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:Um, create more income.
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:We need more money, create more income.
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:That's a, that's a very logical
place to go, but that is potentially
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:a symptom necessarily what's
causing the cashflow problem.
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:And so this is where going into the,
looking at where there's actually the
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:root cause can make a huge difference
because sometimes selling more isn't
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:actually going to be the problem.
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:For example, this is an extreme
example, but if it costs you 10
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:to your widget that you're selling
costs 10, you're selling it for 9?
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:Selling a hundred more is not
going to help your cash flow
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:and not make it up in volume.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Okay,
so that's an example
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:of.
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:Gwen Episode 8: You're going
to lose a hundred dollars.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Right, so that's
an example of, it seems like a
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:cash flow issue, but really it's
a pricing issue in that case.
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:Mm,
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:Gwen Episode 8: a, it's a price
issue or a cost of production issue.
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:Um,
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:Tonya Episode 8: okay, yeah,
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:Gwen Episode 8: Right, because maybe
you're able to change a production
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:behavior or a supplier or something,
you know, some other element and
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:actually get it down to a cost where
now selling a hundred versus one
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:actually is making you more money.
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:So, so that's one, one example
of the cash flow problem.
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:But the other is sometimes your, um, the,
the term I like to use is leaking money.
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:I like to think of it as a bucket.
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:Right?
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:That there's money coming
in at the top, like water.
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:And, um, if your bucket is solid,
then, then you're, you're taking
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:money out with very specific choices.
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:Right?
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:So the money comes out here and it
comes out here, but sometimes you've
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:got some little holes in the bottom of
your bucket and pinholes are the worst
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:because they don't seem like very much.
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:They're little, little tiny holes
and it's just going to drip down.
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:And it doesn't seem, it's like,
well, that's not that big of a deal.
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:This is not that big of a deal.
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:But the problem with pinholes is
pinholes can become real holes
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:and real holes can become bigger
and bigger and bigger and bigger.
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:And so where are potentially the, the
leaks in your overall business model?
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:It could be leaks in
effectiveness in people.
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:It could be leaks in apps that you're
paying for that you're no longer using.
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:It, you know, it could, there,
there's all sorts of places
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:that could, could be leaks.
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:The other cashflow issue is what I call
the, the, the Peter Paul issue, which
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:is you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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:And so it feels like we
are supportive, but really.
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:We're paying for yesterday's product with
today's money, and we don't actually have
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:today's money to pay for today's product.
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:And so, so we're always running, you
know, we're getting further and further
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:and further behind over time, um,
because We keep trying to sell more
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:and more and more and more hoping that
that will allow us to catch up but
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:we're, we're always behind eight ball
and we're never actually catching up.
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:So all of those are cash flow issues.
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:They are very, very different cash
flow issues and pretty much for
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:the most part putting more money
in doesn't solve any of them.
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:Tonya Episode 8: right.
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:Okay, so I think that's a
really good illustration.
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:In terms of showcasing sort of
the difference between having a
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:symptom that you're solving and then
actually like digging deeper into
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:the root cause and solving that.
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:Could you, and I'm going to put you
on the spot here, uh, but could you
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:give us an example or maybe walk, walk
me through the process of addressing
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:how addressing a problem in the
wrong order would impact a business?
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:Gwen Episode 8: Yeah, so let's say
that where we think the issue is, is
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:that we have hired the wrong people.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Okay.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Okay?
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:Tonya Episode 8: I've been there.
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:. Mm-Hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: yeah, right?
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:And so, so our cash flow issue
is, we think, a people issue.
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:That the people that we've hired
are not the right people and they're
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:not actually working effectively.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Okay.
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:Mm-Hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Um, and
so we let those people go.
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:And then we hire new people, and
then we have the same problem
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:again, and then we let those people
go, and we hire new people, and
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:we have the same problem again.
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:Tonya Episode 8: And at what point do I
do I let the hiring manager go because I
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:blame them for hiring the wrong people.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Well,
and often that's us, so.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Yeah.
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:I know.
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:I know.
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:Mm-Hmm?
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:Gwen Episode 8: Um, and so, so
we think it's a people issue.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: because they're
not performing at the level
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:that we expect them to perform.
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:But in this case, where, where often
it is, is it's a process issue.
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:It's a communications issue.
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:There's all sorts of other
things that could be driving that
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:particular cash flow issue, because
it is still a cash flow issue.
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:We're, you know, we're paying for
eight hours of work a day, and we feel
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:like we're only getting three or four,
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: right?
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:But it's not actually because of the
People that we hired, it's because
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:our systems aren't working in the way
that we think they really should be.
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:For instance, they have to hand
it off and then it comes back
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:and then they hand it off and it
comes back and they hand it off.
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:Every time that it's, you know,
being a handoff in this case,
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:we're, we're losing productivity.
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:Where maybe the right answer is, yeah,
you actually only need this person
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:half time and you need this person
half time, but this person works half
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:time in the morning and this person
works half time in the afternoon.
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:They don't both work full time all day
going back and forth and back and forth
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:and back and forth and back and forth.
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:Okay.
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:Um, not, not a perfect example, but that's
a process issue, not a people issue.
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:And if you got it fixed, you would
have found that your first set of
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:people were also the right people.
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:now we spent a lot onboarding,
offboarding, hiring, unhiring,
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:rehiring, you know, piece
because it wasn't actually.
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:a people issue.
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:It was a process issue.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Okay.
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:So
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:what, what can I do as a business owner?
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:Like, are there questions
that I could ask myself?
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:Is there maybe, I don't know, a
five point checklist I could go
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:through that would help me to know
whether I'm prioritizing my business
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:problems effectively or accurately.
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:Gwen Episode 8: So
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:this is going to sound like a really
self serving answer, but it's not.
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:It's, it's a real true thing is it's
really hard to do this by yourself.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Okay.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Okay.
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:Um,
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:because, uh, you know, we use the
phrase around here a lot, you can't
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:read the label inside the jar.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: um, and,
and that's, that's true.
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:And so a lot of times you can't see That
there would be a different way than going
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:back and forth between these people.
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:It just, it just, it, you
can't even conceive of it.
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:And so, you're never going
to find that problem.
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:Um, this is where having someone who comes
in from an outside and says, So, why does
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:this get passed back and forth, you know,
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Couldn't this person
just spend the morning doing this
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:and this person do the afternoon?
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:And then by the end of the day,
we would deliver this product, you
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:know, whatever, whatever it happens
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: When we started the
business, we wanted to make sure that we
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:were, we delivered within five minutes.
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:But the question becomes, does anyone
actually need it delivered in five
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:minutes, or if it's delivered in 24
hours, is that more than enough time?
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:Right?
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:But the owner who.
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:really loved the fact that they
were delivering in five minutes,
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:probably is never going to
ask themselves that question.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: And they can't
conceive of asking that question.
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:But when someone on the outside says, so
why is five minutes better than 24 hours?
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:They often can't actually answer that.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Right.
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:Gwen Episode 8: or they can, but
when you say, but at this price.
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:Does, does that actually make sense?
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:It was like, oh, well, maybe not.
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:You know, I mean, so then there'd
be other, other questions.
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:And so I don't feel like
there's an absolute piece.
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:I will say the best way to do it
is to work with someone either
322
:outside the organization or
brand new to the organization.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: Because new people,
if they're really encouraged to
325
:ask the questions and say, so
why, why do we go back and forth?
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:You know, you hire the, you
know, these new people that we're
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
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:Gwen Episode 8: And they, they start
asking the questions like, Wouldn't
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:it be easier if like, I worked on this
for, you know, a morning and then they
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:worked on it for an afternoon, you know,
and, and the question comes up, then all
331
:of a sudden it's like, oh, well, yeah,
maybe that actually is the right answer.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Right.
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:Gwen Episode 8: The outside
perspective is so important.
334
:It doesn't have to come from, you know,
a paid consultant, but it does need
335
:to be someone who's not so ingrained.
336
:It also, if you've got a big
enough organization, it can
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:come from another department.
338
:They're not as familiar with the
nuances and the details, but rare.
339
:It's really, really hard because,
you know, we work together.
340
:I can't do it for my own business either.
341
:Even though I do this
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:Tonya Episode 8: Right.
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:Well, and I think, you know, some
things that I, like, I'm trying
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:to think of how to put this.
345
:I do think, if you're listening
to this and you're going, okay.
346
:Because part of it is you have to even
know, like, if I was to work on this
347
:with a peer, right, what questions
should my peer ask me in order to
348
:help me come to the right conclusion?
349
:And so I think the first thing,
what I'm hearing you say is, okay,
350
:so the first thing we have to do
is we have to name the problem.
351
:And we have to get clear and we
have to get succinct about it.
352
:And then I think we need to, the
second thing we would need to do
353
:then is, We then need to detail
the impact of the problem, right?
354
:So, so the problem is, is we keep
hiring folks and nobody is working out.
355
:Okay, so what's the impact of that?
356
:Well, there's the training time.
357
:All this lost productivity and training
time takes a boatload of time to, you
358
:know, reevaluate the job description,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
359
:Okay, and then also
they're not working out.
360
:What does that mean?
361
:What does that look like?
362
:What's the impact of them not working out?
363
:Like whatever they're doing
that's not working out.
364
:And then from there, I think it's a matter
of going, okay, and what drives that?
365
:Okay.
366
:Is that necessary?
367
:Like, I think what the question that
I don't think business owners ask
368
:themselves enough, we ask ourselves a
lot of what questions we ask ourselves,
369
:a lot of why questions, but I don't know
that we never, we ever ask ourselves,
370
:but does it have to be that way?
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:Gwen Episode 8: you know, we,
372
:we were just having a conversation as
part of the small business book club
373
:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm,
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:Gwen Episode 8: a beautiful constraint.
375
:And one of the pieces
that came out of that is.
376
:Instead of saying what's stopping us,
it is the phrase, we could if, or we
377
:can if, or a version of we can if.
378
:And so, uh, I, I really think the
way you're talking about there is,
379
:is, is that same mindset shift,
uh, of saying, okay, how, you know,
380
:these people can be more effective.
381
:Yeah.
382
:If, we can if, they can if,
383
:and and saying, well, they can
if, um, you know, we extend the
384
:line, the, the, the delivery time.
385
:They can if, right?
386
:And, and I think that really is the
place that you start looking for the,
387
:for the root cause to, because in the
process of this can if, all of a sudden
388
:it's like, oh, by changing this element,
389
:Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,
390
:Gwen Episode 8: is.
391
:Often way down the line in this
process, we say, Oh, well, that
392
:changes all of these other things.
393
:And we can start in our mind saying,
Oh, well, we can look through them.
394
:Yeah.
395
:Let that's worth a try.
396
:Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm, mm
397
:Gwen Episode 8: Let's do, let's do that.
398
:And then we can start seeing
that change in evaluation of,
399
:of what's, of what's happening.
400
:Right.
401
:Tonya Episode 8: hmm, mm
402
:Gwen Episode 8: And, and I do, I
do think your point is you've got
403
:to have someone that's asking you.
404
:a question that you
wouldn't typically ask,
405
:Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,
406
:Gwen Episode 8: right?
407
:And that you also need to be thinking
about not always about why it
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:wouldn't work, but how it could work
409
:Tonya Episode 8: mm hmm,
mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm,
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:Gwen Episode 8: because that gets
us into a more, more creative place.
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:And, and, you know, I've, I've
talked about it often that
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:part of my, my success is.
413
:I have seen so many things that
work, I can come up with a list
414
:of alternatives really fast, that
often the person I'm working with
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:has never even seen or heard of.
416
:And so it, it just doesn't occur to them.
417
:But you could get there with
this kind of can if Process.
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:Tonya Episode 8: And we're better
off getting perspective from somebody
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:who actually has no idea what we do
because then they won't carry the
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:same default assumptions we carry.
421
:Gwen Episode 8: Yeah.
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:You, you and I have both seen that in
our, our group quarterly program that
423
:we, we've had where there have been
folks that are in similar industries
424
:Tonya Episode 8: Mm hmm.
425
:Gwen Episode 8: that are in com don't
know a thing about that industry.
426
:And often in the the small group
conversations, people come back
427
:and it's like, well, I didn't think
I could be of any value, but they
428
:loved my question because they
came at it from a complete novice.
429
:perspective.
430
:They asked a question that no one in
their industry would have ever asked.
431
:Tonya Episode 8: All right.
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:Yeah.
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:No, that is, that is
something we do hear a lot.
434
:Okay.
435
:So what I would like for you to
do, Gwen, now, because, um, I
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:mean, I feel like we've really
covered this topic really well.
437
:And so I feel like this
is a good place to end.
438
:But If somebody were to pick up just
right now, what would be the two to
439
:three things that you think would be
best for them to jot down to not forget?
440
:Gwen Episode 8: So, thing
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:number one is, rarely the way
the problem is presenting, The
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:symptom is rarely the actual cause.
443
:There's almost always something deeper.
444
:Sometimes it's in what I
would call a direct line.
445
:Um, you know, that this thing it's
because of this, this, this, Oh, here's
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:the root cause it's fairly, fairly
straightforward, but more often than not,
447
:because operations is such an integrated.
448
:the actual root cause is somewhere way off
in what we would call another department
449
:or another, you know, So don't get too
stuck on staying in, you know, I'll call
450
:the vertical path of the problem, right?
451
:So if you're seeing the symptom,
realize it's pro so one is it's
452
:probably not the root cause.
453
:It can be, usually not.
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:Tonya Episode 8: Mm-Hmm.
455
:Gwen Episode 8: And look, the second thing
would be don't just look in that obvious
456
:line of process, but, but look, Outside
and say, are there other, other places?
457
:And then the third thing I would, I
would say is try to get perspective
458
:from someone that you trust, but
who isn't necessarily deeply.
459
:Embedded in your business.
460
:It can be a new employee.
461
:It can be an outside consultant.
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:It can be a peer.
463
:Um, you know and from a networking
group that has a different
464
:a different perspective.
465
:There's lots of places that you can get
it Um, but but be prepared to ask and
466
:answer hard questions and be asking The,
the positive, what if this wasn't true?
467
:What, what can we do if?
468
:What can we do if?
469
:What can we do if?
470
:I really think those are the,
those are the three biggies.
471
:Tonya Episode 8: Okay.
472
:Okay.
473
:Those sound great.
474
:Um, thank you for walking us through that.
475
:Now, what I would ask is, anybody
listening to the show, I would love
476
:for you to email me specifically
tonya@everydayeffectiveness.com.
477
:That's T-O-N-Y-A at
everyday effectiveness com.
478
:And I would love to know who do you
get this kind of perspective from?
479
:If there's an example that you have from
your own business where you discovered
480
:after the fact you were solving either
the wrong problem entirely or you were
481
:solving the right problem but you were
solving it in the wrong order, we'd love
482
:to hear those examples from you and use
those maybe in a future show or to even
483
:build out resources for future listeners.
484
:And uh, thank you Gwen, thank
you for being here, thank you for
485
:walking us through this process.
486
:It's a little, it's a little high
level for me but I think, I feel
487
:like you helped me understand.