Welcome back to Branded: your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

Today, we dive into the world of brand hijacking, a phenomenon where brands encounter unexpected public perceptions or shifts that either propel them forward or challenge their core values. We'll share a real-time story involving Larry's own experience with this topic and explore other well-known brands that have faced similar situations.

Larry opens up about a personal situation where his iconic red hat was mistaken for a political symbol, leading to misjudgments about his values. As we investigate further, we find a pattern of brands being subjected to similar hijackings—some emerging stronger and others faltering.

Key takeaways:

1. Understanding Brand Hijacking: We define brand hijacking and how it can happen to anyone. Larry's story about his red hat shows how swift assumptions can affect business interactions and personal reputations if not handled properly.
2. The Power of Public Perception: Sara emphasizes that public perception is the hardest part of a brand to manage, yet it is crucial. It's important to recognize and navigate how people think and feel about a brand, as well as who a brand associates with.
3. Embracing or Challenging Hijacking: Not all brand hijacking is negative. We touch on brands like Volkswagen, which have had their brand perceptions positively transformed over time, showing that some forms of hijacking can align with or even enhance a brand's values.
4. Case Studies of Brand Responses: We analyze how major brands like Nike, Bud Light, and Target have handled hijacking scenarios. Their responses, whether involving leaning into controversies or mishandling audience expectations, offer lessons on the importance of commitment to brand messaging and audience understanding.
5. Staying True to Brand Values: Analyzing these instances, we conclude that clarity and commitment to a brand's core values often yield better outcomes than neutrality or inconsistency. Effective response hinges on knowing your audience and standing by your brand’s message and principles.

Join us as we navigate these complex waters and prepare to address brand hijacking with confidence and clarity. Remember, your brand's strength lies in understanding these dynamics and responding with informed strategies.

What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts.

And I'm Sara Lohse. And this is Branded. Your comprehensive guide to creative branding.

And on this episode of the podcast, we're gonna hijack the conversation by talking about brand hijacking.

This just happened to you. So I know for you this is a kind of a hot topic and maybe a little sensitive topic. So let's just go into what just happened.

I'm actually a little nervous because I'm. I'm flying to New York tomorrow to meet this individual for the first time. And what had happened was, is that a friend of mine recommend me, recommended me as a project lead for. For this build out for. Well, I've signed an NDA, a very extensive NDA. So it's. It's a project, we'll just put it that way. That's AI driven.

I guess I can say that much. But when the lady that owns the company that wants to build the app started looking at my website, she saw my red hat and instantly went into a tirade because she felt my hat represented certain things that it does not represent. And I mean, I'll be honest, it's not the first time that someone went, hey, is that a. Is that a MAGA reference there? Which it most definitely is not a MAGA reference at all. You guys listening to the podcast, unless it's your first time, you probably know the red hat story, and the actual red hat that it's based on is sitting back there on that shelf right about there. Because it just came from a talk that I did where I was wearing a Supreme hat, which was red. And since supreme wasn't paying me, I went ahead and switched to an unbranded red hat and became the Red Hat guy. But the whole point there is, is that she instantly assumed that she knew my core values and my core principles and knew everything about me just because I had a red hat on.

And that's just strictly not the case. So it got us wondering, since Sara and I were talking about it, are there other brands that have experienced something similar where they got hijacked and doing a little bit of research, man, it's. It's more common than you would think.

Yeah. And I think what really stands out with a lot of the examples that we found is not necessarily what happened, but how they responded. And I know we talked way early in the, in the show. One of the first episodes, we talked about, like, the different opponents of a brand, and one of the ones that we talked about was brand perception. And it's the part that you can't actually control. And that's the hardest part of a brand to manage, is public perception and how people think about you, how they feel about you, what they think of when they see you. And where we align our brands and the different organizations or individuals that we choose to be associated with, that has an impact on that perception. And I'm going to be honest, like, I'm surprised it took this long for there to be some big, like, I don't want to say like scandal, but like something big with your hat.

Like, I'm really surprised. I've been waiting, like something's gonna happen.

It's not the first time, but it's the most extreme. You know, I typically, you know, probably half a dozen times or so I've been pulled to the side and some. Hey, is that a mag I had? What are you doing there? You know, I've had that little whisper in my ear asking if that's what it was, but I've never had this level of backlash and it actually made me, I'm still am nervous to even engage with this potential individual. I feel like I'm already like on my heels. You know, I'm already trying to maintain my balance and trying to maintain any sense of credibility because I was previously judged by an article of clothing.

As a woman, I can say welcome to the club.

Okay. Okay. I can see that little Susie short skirt. Yeah.

Welcome. It's not fun, is it?

No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very off putting, I'll put it that way. And you know, I debated whether or not I was gonna go out there and, and honestly I still, I'm still super tentative. I, I just, the whole thing makes me a nervous wreck. And I just think there's the potential for, you know, when you sign an eight page NDA and you have minimal communication with the potential client, it doesn't give you a sense of ease.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely a tricky one and hopefully it works out fine because I mean, you're not, that's not what it is. And I think that person, they did their own research afterwards and understood that. But this is kind of what we're going to talk about too. It's how you handled it and whether you do decide to move forward or pull back and all of that. And I mean, one of the things that you're clearly doing is staying with your brand.

Oh yeah. I'm not going to sacrifice, however, and I can't reach it right now, but I did buy a gray hat to wear to New York, so. But I can't wear any hat. She may. Yeah, I've got a. It's a heather gray hat to wear to New York. I didn't.

Why would you already have a pink one you could have worn?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Probably would have fit in New York even better than the. Well, a lot better than the red hat. But it's just wild because it's got me thinking in ways that I never thought about before. It's just I. I don't understand inherent hostility based on assumptions. And, you know, the way that I handled it was that we had a call last week, and I was going to base my decision on that call. And when I got on the call, I attempted to tell the red hat story and where it really came from.

And apparently her assistant had already done her homework. And so she knew. But she acknowledged it. But she also acknowledged it in a very condescending tone. It was. It was almost like an aggressive acknowledgment if there is, you know, it's just. It just didn't quite set right. But then I go, okay, well, she is a New Yorker, and New Yorkers have a way of communicating that a Southern folk may take a little offense to because they are so blunt.

Excuse me, I'm not blunt.

You're a little blunt.

I am not. Excuse me. What are you implying?

I'm just implying that their. Their. Their communication style isn't inherently offensive to them, but we can make assumptions that they're meaning certain things that they're not meaning. So, you know, just because of the bluntness, it could come across a little harsh. So I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, have that conversation and see where it went. And by the end of the conversation, we were talking about sharing a car and, you know, riding all over the city and blah, blah, blah. So I felt somewhat at ease. But then at the same time, they were supposed to send me documentation that I still don't have.

So now I'm flying into New York completely blind, unable to do any homework whatsoever. So, I mean, I have an idea of what I'm walking into, but I don't know what to expect. So it almost feels like I'm being set up for failure.

It's. I. I know the feeling.

Yeah.

It's so true. I wonder, like, how. I mean, it's not like something we could ever know, but how the situation would have been different if, like, that never happened. Like, if your brand wasn't the red hat or that there wasn't that negative from the start? Like, yeah, would communication have been different? Would you already have all the stuff that you needed? Like, would they've been more accommodating? Like, super curious? I wish.

And I have a feeling, I have a feeling it would have been just because the, the tirade that she went on, talking about how, how, how ignorant can he be? Doesn't he know about the pillow guy? Doesn't he see what they're doing to Elon? Doesn't he see this pillow guy? Yeah, it was, what was it? My pillow or something like that, Those custom pillows. And he was a big Trump supporter, and so they, they eviscerated him. And yeah, I don't even know if he's a business anymore. I, I, maybe he is. But anyways, she, she brought all those examples up so that, I mean, in my head, that tells me that she already has an inherent opinion on my, my business acumen. You know, it's like I'm already going in with that hit because I was too stupid to change my brand. That's just the way it feels. I don't know if that's true, but.

I guess we'll find out, see how it goes. We will come back in a couple weeks for an update, y'all.

We, we will find out Saturday morning, 10am yeah, we'll find out when we sit down in there and see where it goes.

So let's talk about some other examples, because, like you said, this happens all the time. And. Yeah, when we were kind of doing our homework, there were some negative ones. Of course, there were some positive ones. And then I think there are ones that it's not even negative or positive. It just takes on a life of its own. Like the one that I automatically think of when I think, like. And it doesn't even feel like hijacking because hijacking has, like, a negative connotation.

Sure.

Like, hijacking just sounds bad, but I think a Volkswagen.

Yeah, it sounds bad, especially when I'm getting on a plane.

Yeah, well, yeah, but, like, hijacking doesn't sound good. No, but with like, Volkswagen, if I see, like, the VW and like, the, whether it's like the bug or the, the, the little van, I think of, like, the hippie movement and peace and happy, and it's like, I don't think of a car, I don't think of a car brand. I don't think of Germany. I think it's German. Like, I don't German.

It was actually Created by Hitler.

Oh, that's good. So now I no longer associate that with peace.

Well, that's the irony, man. You know, it was. It was created by something that does not represent peace at all. But it's interesting to see the evolution of the brand over the decades to where it does equate to peace.

Now, you know, it's kind of ironic because the original meaning of the swastika symbol, it was a symbol of peace. And then he took it, flipped it, and now it's definitely not. So that's kind of. They went the opposite way.

It's. It. There's a whole lot of interesting conversation to be had there. Yeah. So that's why I. If you think back, who was it? Golly. I want to say it was Meg Ryan, but it wasn't Meg Ryan. It was some other actress.

And she made a big deal. Maybe it was Gwyneth Paltrow. She made a big deal out of selling her Tesla and buying a Volkswagen.

What for?

Well, because, like a lateral move, I guess it was just a statement that she was. She was getting rid of her Tesla because she's anti. Elon. Because he's a Nazi and this and that. But then she goes and she literally buys a real Nazi car.

Huh.

Didn't work out very well.

I support selling the swastikar, but maybe choose, like, Ford or something. Like maybe go like American.

But. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to see how, you know, the. Especially the VW bus. And my understanding is there's a resurgence of the VW bus.

Yeah.

But that's.

And that's like a nostalgia kind of like hippie mentality. The people who want them or what, though. It's kind of almost tied to, like, the van life movement.

Yeah.

Like, the people who are like, want to live. And I want. I would. Was all for this. I almost bought a camper van before I bought my house, but I wanted to, like, build out a little camper van and just go around the country living in this little van. And like, that is a huge thing. And it's all nature and outdoors.

Sure.

And it's all like. That's what you associate that, like, logo with now. And if you. I've gotten like, sticker packs that are supposed to be just about, like, piece happy and there's Volkswagen logos in it and like the little. Like the little buses. Like, it's completely unrelated.

Yeah.

And yet it's there completely took on a life of its own.

Yeah. I mean, that's a. That's a positive example of A brand hijacking, you know, unintended consequences that are really, really beneficial for the brand. Because I guarantee you those sales are through the roof because of the nostalgia factor and because of the brand hijacking and because of the, the peaceful movement and the, the, the flowers and the, and the beads and all the fun St. Fun 70s type stuff.

And then the other irony there is that they also were involved in like diesel gate and like faking their emissions results and then they got tied to anti environmental and environmental damage. So it's like over here it's flowers and sunshine and over here it's not so much.

Not so much.

There's a lot of irony and dichotomy with that brand.

So there is a ton. There is a ton. So it makes you wonder, you know, how do you, how do you balance that and how do you, how do you manage a brand hijacking? I mean, do, do you address it? Do you hide from it? Do you backpedal on it? I mean, what do you, what do you do? Because we've seen on some of the biggest brands out there, whether it's Bud Light, whether it's Target, whether it's Nike, with the Colin Kaepernick thing, we, we saw where there was a lot of wishy washy going back and forth. And I think that did more damage to the brands than the, the initial, initial conflict.

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to go back and just look at your brand values and look at like, what does your brand stand for? What do you want it to stand for? What do you want it to be associated with? But overall, I mean, backpedaling or ignoring is never going to have a good outcome. And I think the brands that, I think the only brands that really came out on the other side in a positive way are the ones that addressed it and leaned more into it. Like Nike leaned into it. They had the opportunity to be like, oh, this is not, we're not making this political. This has nothing to do with protests. This is like Colin Kaepernick was just a campaign and we're over here. That's not related. But no, they leaned into it and they went all in on the messaging and aligning their brand with social justice.

And did they lose some support from one side? Yes, but they gained more than they lost because people are more likely to be like, brand loyal and support a brand if they are aligned with a cause they support. So they open themselves up to an entire audience just based on that value.

See, I think it's just supporting the Message, whatever that message is, stand on your ground. You know what I mean? What, what's, what's, what are all those wacky kids say? Stand on business? Is that what it is? Stand on your business? Is that what it is? No, but, yeah, I think it's just making sure that you, you stand your ground. If you have conflict that arises from a brand, to backpedal, I think is the absolute worst thing you can do.

And do your homework. Like, if you're going to align yourself and let somebody else become the face of your brand, you better know who that person is and know what their intentions are, know what their brand is. Like, don't just be like, oh, this person's popular, let's go. Like, you have to do your homework. And like, you briefly mentioned the Bud Light one and I, we're pro. I don't know what side of that you're on, but I think that they handled that so poorly.

You know, the thing with me is I don't, I don't even really know. You know, I mean, I know the messaging does not resonate with a Bud Light core crowd. I mean, Bud Light is inherently masculinity and maybe even toxic masculinity. And I think the, the ad, the lady that did the ad, she hated the frat boy image that went along with Bud Light. But I, I think from that perspective, regardless of what the message is, you have to know your audience. So you can't just go flip the script and go the totally opposite direction and hope that it resonates with you, with your audience.

What happened there? It was, they had a brand deal with Dylan Mulvaney, who was a tick tock influencer, and she was a trans woman, and she was doing these, like, days of girlhood and celebrating, like, coming into her identity. And it was, if you ever watched her videos, she was sunshine in a person. Like, just everything was kindness, happiness, love. Like, let's just let people be people and support each other. It was a very positive message. And they did a brand deal and she was just going to put like some content out to her audience and her followers. And of course it goes past that. So then the other audiences found it.

And Bud Light's typical audience is not that.

No.

So they blew up and they were pissed. And what it was, I think what Bud Light was trying to do was reach a new audience, but they did it in, like, I guess they didn't realize how, like, volatile their initial audience was, but they, I think, too, it's.

The messaging, because obviously the lady that Ran that. I can't think of her name, but I can see her face because she just signed on with Live Golf, so now she's doing their campaigns, which should be interesting to see where that goes.

Like the. The influencer or the. Like the brand manager.

Not. Not Dylan, the brand manager. Okay. The marketing expert, quote, unquote, expert.

Got.

Yeah, because they got rid of.

They got another job.

Yeah, she got another job, believe it or not. So that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out, because I literally just read about it either yesterday or today. She just completely attacked the existing audience, and you can't do that. I mean, you. You have to know your audience, and if you're trying to get a new audience or tap into a new audience, you can't isolate. And.

And there's no attack on any.

Oh, she said she hated the frat boy brand. That was.

Oh, wait, okay, you're talking about the. The manager.

Yeah, Yeah.

I thought you meant, like, what. Like the. The Dylan content.

Oh, no, I don't. I. I don't know anything about the Dylan content. I don't think.

I. I mean, I don't know anything about the. The brand manager. I just know, like, the other side of it.

Yeah. And I'm just the opposite. I don't know a whole lot about Dylan. I never watch their content. So it's. It's. It's not something that I can really. It does not resonate with me.

So. So I'll just leave it at that point right there. I think that's fair. But again, it just goes back to knowing your audience and not hijacking your own brand through. I don't know, man. It just seems like gross negligence.

Yeah. And that was another case. So they. They did not stand by it. Like, they apologized for it. They abandoned Dylan, and she was getting death threats and being completely attacked and eviscerated. Shut down her social media for a while. Like, it was really bad for her.

Venezuela or something.

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe they moved to Venezuela for a while.

Oh, I. I wouldn't be surprised. Literally getting death threats. But they completely abandoned her. And we're like, okay, you deal with the fallout over there. We're gonna go back to promoting to sports guys and frat boys and just tried to kind of sweep it under the rug. Not a good look.

Not a good look. Not a good look at all. So, I mean, that's kind of the point here, though, you know? And there's so many other examples. We talked about Nike, Target came Under fire for some LGBTQ advertising that they did there as well. And they kind of. What do you call it? Flip flop, back and forth.

Yeah.

In regards to that. So that was. That was a.

Some stores pulled it, some stores didn't. It was. They did not handle it well.

I think it just depended on your market segment there, where you were in the country, as to whether or not they pulled the. Pull the ad campaign. But again, it just goes to show that regardless of what you do, you have to stand behind it and you have to be able to. To live with the consequences and address them accordingly. So.

Yeah, and it goes both ways, too. If you are, like on. If you're on big on social media, you're quote, unquote, influencer and you're getting offers for brand deals. Do your research.

Yeah.

Do not accept brand deals just because they're offered to you. No, companies are. Yeah.

It could be extremely tempting.

It's like all checks, cash the same.

Yeah. They all spend the same. Boy. But that's what I'm telling myself while I fly to New York this weekend. It all spins the same. Yay.

But there's always going to be that tie to that brand and you're always going to be associated with that brand. And if you allow that to happen, that's fine. But make sure it is a brand that you stand behind and that they're going to stand behind you, and it's not just a PR stunt for them. And then they're gonna just kind of wash their hands of it.

Right on. So I think. I think the real key takeaways here is clarity and values matters more than neutrality. Again, you know, stand by your business and. And support your decisions that you make. And I think you made a very valid point, too, in that brand hijacking is not always a negative thing. You know, it's. It was a negative thing with me, but with vw, you know, Farfig Nugan in there, they're.

They're doing just fine with that. Don't want to hijack this conversation any more than we already have.

Probably fair.

Yeah, probably fair. Oh, my God. That was a terrible close. I'm not, I'm not.

The far Fig Newton was not recorded.

What?

The Far Fig Newton was not while we were recording. That was pre recording. No one knows what Far Fig Newton means.

Everybody knows what Far Fig Nugan is. Far Fig new again. There it is right there.

The. The. The cookie.

No. Far Far Feg Nugan is a German word that translates to driving enjoyment or the pleasure of driving it was famously used in a. Yeah, it was famously used in a Volkswagen advertising campaign in the US the term Farfig nugent was originally a ne. What the heck is that? Creator for the ad campaign. Not standard German.

I thought you just made up a noise.

Negative. Nope, it's legit. Oh, let's get the perfect Nougan out of here, shall we? Hey, if you got some value out of this episode and we didn't hijack your day, do us a favor. Slam that subscribe button so we can continue to bring these amazing episodes each and every week. With that, I am a living Gary Roberts.

I'm Sara Lohse, and we'll talk to you next week.