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From Nothing to Profit - Matt Hoaglin and Kia Bondurant 5th November 2018
Scott Wyden Kivowitz – Episode 005 – A Photographer Podcast Interview

Scott Wyden Kivowitz – Episode 005 – A Photographer Podcast Interview

Today we interview Scott Wyden Kivowitz.  Learn about his story of working full time at Imagely, the wordpress photography people (https://www.imagely.com/) and part time as a photographer.  It is important for Scott to continue to love photography, which is why he keeps it part-time.

Scott is starting to shift his business to personal brand photography, a fast growing genre. He says, “There’s the potential for a personal brand photographer to make the same, or more than, a wedding photographer. There’s actually a lot less time away from the family and you gain your weekends back.” The opportunities here are limitless.

Scott also uses lead generation to find the clients he wants to work with and refers the rest out. Some really great tips here.

You can follow Scott on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/scottwyden/  and also on his website https://scottwyden.com/

Books that Scott Recommends:

All Gary Vaynerchuck Books, especially:

Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook (https://amzn.to/2D2LBiL)

Ask Gary Vee (https://amzn.to/2PQs1Zs)

Resources from the show:

Scott has podcast – wordpress photography podcast – about websites and using them for business.  Check it out here: https://www.imagely.com/podcast

Scott’s Lead Generation class:  https://scottwyden.com/lead-generation-course

Coupon: FNTP for 20% off
Coupon is valid until 12/31/18
Jamie’s Swanson Personal Brand info:  https://www.personalbrandphotography.com/

Additional Free Resources at MattHoaglin.com

Read Full Transcript


Transcription was done by Temi.com which means it’s an AI generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video.

Scott: [00:01] This is Scott Wyden Kivowitz and you are listening to from nothing to profit.

Speaker 2: [00:04] Welcome to from nothing to profit a photographers podcast with Matt and Kayak where each week they talk to photographers about what is working in their business now so you can swipe those ideas and grow your business faster. Welcome

Kia: [00:20] to go from nothing to profit hosted by Matt Hoagland and Kira bonderant. We are so excited to welcome Scott Wyden Kivowitz today, and here we go.

Scott: [00:32] Scott is a father, photographer, blogger, and educator from New Jersey. A storyteller. What? The camera growing up, he was always photographed by his parents and his grandparents while playing in bands. He started photographing bands that played at the same event he decided years ago to document the lives of others so that they can enjoy and be cherished forever. Scott offers family portraits, cakes, mass essence headshots and personal brand photography to his local clients. He’s also the chief community officer at imagely, the photo press photography people. He’s also the chief community officer at imagely, the wordpress photography people. So welcome Scott. Thanks for having me. So is there anything else after reading your bio that we kind of missed about you, that you wanted to include? I mean, do you want to say a little bit more about imagery or anything like that? Sure. Um, so, so I am a part time professional photographer.

Scott: [01:20] I decided years ago to, to not go full time with it, uh, for various reasons, which I’m sure we’ll get into. But I am working, I do work full time frame. Actually imagely makes plugins and themes for photographers, turnkey sites for photographers, things like that basically were just, uh, we call ourselves the wordpress photography people for a reason. We are just anything that our photographer needs and wordpress, that is what we are aimed to, uh, to deliver for them. So that’s pretty much everything in a nutshell I guess. Yeah. And that’s, that’s Kinda where I’m at you from is from some facebook groups that we’re in together and you’ve been such a valuable resource to all of us because I know you really have your pulse. You really have the pulse of the industry for sure. So thanks. Yeah,

Kia: [02:03] and I’m excited, Scott, because we’ve never met and uh, whenever I’ve looked through your website and looked at all your different interests and I think you have such a variety of knowledge that I think you’re going to have a lot to share with us. So, uh, my first question for you is share something we don’t know about your area of expertise that as a photographer we probably should.

Scott: [02:30] So I’m starting to shift a as kind of mentioned I’m, I’m starting to shift. So a lot of my business to personal brand photography. This is something that is definitely becoming more popular in the industry. It’s still not, it’s still probably one of the least popular genre of photography, but it’s definitely growing. And I think one thing that people need to realize that if they’re considering the switch or if they just are learning about personal brand photography, is that there’s actually the potential for a personal brand photographer to make the same salary or more than a wedding photographer. And there’s actually a lot less time away from the family and you gain your weekends back. You don’t have to do your sessions on weekends because a lot of the people that you’ll be photographing for personal brand photography are solo, preneurs entrepreneurs that can do it whenever they want, so

Kia: [03:25] probably better for them to do it during the weekday. It’s really.

Scott: [03:29] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, depending on what they do, if they’re, obviously, if they’re like a, a personal chef who does a lot of corporate, you know, events where they’re doing lunches and stuff that obviously, you know, that time is not gonna work for them, but for the most part they have the flexibility to really do it when they want, which is, which is a beautiful thing. So you’re talking a lot of them. You can make a really good salary, a lot of money with all of your time back to see your family and your weekends back. That’s the three big wins that a lot of people don’t realize. So real quick kind of explain how. How do you see the difference between like personal brand photography and just like headshots? I mean, because I know they’re so there’s some overlap there, but do you see there’s a difference between the two?

Scott: [04:14] Oh yeah, so head shots here. You’re basically literally just doing head shots, whether it’s all location or in studio. Personal brand photography is you’re spending an entire day or two or whatever you. Your contract is with your client and you’re doing full body shots. You’re doing headshots, you’re doing lifestyle shots, you’re doing potentially studio shots. If you have a studio, you know you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re doing it more than just, you know, shoulder up, your typical headshot, your, you’re also delivering more. You’re giving them, you’re giving them like depending, again, depending on whatever the contract is that you do your. You could be doing a month worth of photos for this person. You could be doing quarters worth of photos for this person instead of a headshot where you’re delivering one or two head shots to the person and you’re also delivering the photos for every social media channel that they utilize. You’re basically delivering them a product that is going to be easy for them to use across every channel that they need with a license that covers that aspect so you know, they don’t have to worry about any legality issues and you don’t have to worry about suing them for any reason. Everything’s like, you know, in a laid out, there’s no real gray areas.

Kia: [05:29] It’s always good to figure out ways to not sue your clients for sure. So Scott, when I was looking at it through your website to get to know you better, that really intrigued me. Your personal branding, like what you talked about. And so it looks to me because when I think about personal branding, I think, oh bloggers who want you to do it for free and they’ll put your name on their site. But I noticed that you did a lot of really good education on that. And so where did that come from? Like, you know, because I haven’t really seen that much. Like you said, it’s something that people don’t really know. So where did all that? That whole concept start?

Scott: [06:08] So I first, I first thought I’ve, I’ve, I’ve known about this for a long time, but I didn’t think it was gonna be a genre in photography until, until Jamie Swanson really start teaching. I started teaching about it and I had a lot of great conversations with Jamie and I learned a lot from her just in that little bit of time of talking with her different conversations and you know, she’s got a whole video series on it and she’s got a course on it. She has a facebook group all about it, but there’s also people who have been doing it for a long time. So I just did a lot of research. I just googled the heck out of it and came up with some content that I think would connect with the potential clients. And um, yes, I mean, so far so good. You know, I, you know, it’s, it’s, when you think about it, if you’re someone who’s been doing family portraits and you’ve been doing head shots and you have been doing things like that, you’ve already been doing personal brand photography.

Scott: [07:06] I’ve already been doing it for years with specific clients. I tell them we’re going to do this for your business and we’re going to do this and yeah. Yeah, so it’s. It’s a the mindset. I mean the, the, the artistic side of it is the same. It’s the business side. It’s the business mindset part that’s a little bit different when you say, okay, this is a personal brand photography, so the contracts are completely different than every other type of contract. I don’t have to worry about a person’s sales. I don’t have to worry about selling prints. It’s not really shoot and burn. It’s shouldn’t post it. It’s, it’s strategic for the business person, which is kind of funny because you’re, you’re being strategic to a person who is also being strategic in their own business, so it’s just a good match. If you find some, find people who get the value of personal prayer photography to somebody who understand a photographer who understands the value of it and how to deliver it. It’s just a perfect, perfect

Matt: [08:06] a situation. Perfect match so well and I think in the industry we’ve known this is coming for awhile, you know, because one of our industry is one of the cutting, cutting edge industries in terms of like using social media and branding ourselves that way. And so I think we knew it was coming, it was just like in some aspects we had to wrap our head around how to do this and then we also had to wait for the rest of the world to realize how big brandon on the Internet was going to be. So now they realize that they need the branding type sessions to support what they’re trying to do. So it’s really cool. I really think it’s starting to finally come together on all avenues and it’s an awesome thing that somebody could add to their business and just run with it.

Scott: [08:44] Sure. I think, you know, and I have to give a lot of credit to Jamie Swanson because she kinda, she, she sort of kicked my butt into the, into that direction. Um, so that, that transition is still happening. It’s not like I’m finalized. And now on a personal brand photographer, the transition’s underway. I’m building that side of my business now and hopefully eventually I can get rid of the other stuff. Yeah, that’d be awesome. Okay.

Kia: [09:06] Are you done with the. What was it? I was like, Oh, you are trading in the personal branding for the cake smashes. I was just teasing. So before we finish from that, because I feel like the name of this is from nothing to profit and Scott, what you’re doing is taking nothing because that’s not something that you’ve been specifically doing and turning that into profit. So I just have a question on it. I saw that your pricing structure is like a package. Correct? And so, or well I assumed it was a package because you asked a question like are you willing to spend, you know, this certain amount of money. And so I assume it was a package. Is your ideal client someone who would become, you would set up a subscription or something where they come, you know, every three months or something like that?

Scott: [09:55] Correct? Well, uh, yeah, so, so I have three different packages. One is an Allah cart, but it’s still started, $2,000 and 1000 or 2000 to 2000. It’s a one off personal brand photography session, a one day session. And basically I have quarterly packages that save your money and give you more. And so, so that’s just, that’s just the way that I decided to structure it off the bat. What I did though, because I am starting that side of my business from nothing, uh, I did offer for a, for a couple people promo pricing for a month’s worth of images for $500 and I’ve got those books and I’m just waiting for them to fill out the questionnaire and you know, do this,

Kia: [10:43] follow that. Will you put that on your blog or. Oh, of

Scott: [10:46] course. Yeah, that’ll be, that’ll be the um, and I’m hoping to do. I do a lot of youtube education as well, like for photographers. So I do a lot of youtube videos and I’m hoping to document, uh, that whole behind the scenes of it and everything for, for you to use as well. So. Very cool. Very cool. Okay, so let me move on to the next question and we may not be moving on very far, but the next question we always ask is kind of what’s working now and we’ve kind of talked about it. I don’t know if there’s anything else in particular you wanted to talk about what’s working now in our industry or if that’s kind of what you were thinking? Yeah, so, um, I was working for me, at least for, you know, for my business in general, is that I rely heavily on lead generation through my website and from word of mouth from existing clients.

Scott: [11:33] So I built a system on my site which I now teach to photographers as well. And the system that I built generates about 10 leads a week on average between cake smashes families, headshots. That’s everything. And I take those, I take, I take the clients that I can, that one that I feel that are a good fit. Again, I’m a part time professional. I only have so much time because they do have a full time job. So I take what, what’s a good fit and I’ll take those on. And then I’ll actually refer the other leads to other photographers in the area, which means a lot of photographers in the area are getting people that I’ve been putting the effort in to get. Um, but that’s fine. And your friends. I bet it’s really interesting as I here, let me do a bunch of work to get somebody to raise their hand and be interested in photography and then I’ll hand them to you.

Scott: [12:18] You know, you should never have to buy a drink in your town ever again. That’s for sure. That’s for sure. So now that I’m actually shifting my business to personal prep talk, we’re trying to. I’m rebuilding my lead generation system for the new genre and I’m building up a new client base of course. So that’s all you know from nothing to profit. So. But yeah. So, so lead generation is being struck again, being strategic about it. Not just, you know, hey, you know, let’s have a conversation that’s not going to do it. You have to. You have to really be strategic from, from top to bottom about the entire process. Using a well thought out lead magnet. Tying that into the rest of your site, promoting the heck out of it and in various ways there’s a whole lot you can do. That’s awesome. So do you want to give one specific example?

Scott: [13:07] I mean, I don’t want you to give away everything because I know you have a lot of information on your site and stuff, but one specific example that you think is working really well, whether it’s a lead magnet that’s working well or one part of the process that’s working. So what I can tell you is for families, um, what I’ve done is I’ve created a lead magnet that is offering preparation advice for families. And sometimes I’ve done this where it’s a download, but what I’ve done more recently is I’ve converted it to an actual page that’s hidden from search engines and whatnot. So people can’t just find it. They’d have to know exactly where to look and find it. So yeah, they have to opt in. They gave me their email address and once they give me their email address, they are then sent to this new page where they can see all this information about preparing for the session and then they’re also sent into a whole automation campaign working now, nurture that lead further with more education. So I’m now emailing them on a regular basis for about two weeks about various things. And then at the end of that they get a very light pitch to a, have a conversation about, about the family session. So it’s um, that’s a, a very summed up version of, of the system, but there’s definitely a lot more that goes into it than just that though, because that’s really awesome.

Kia: [14:25] Well, what I was going to say is I think that’s good because not everyone understands what that is. Even though they probably opted into how many lead generation systems themselves. Not everyone really knows what it is or that people can use it to apply it to photography.

Scott: [14:40] Yeah, it is it. Alright. Right. If I share a little bit about the course that I go. So, so a lot of people were asking me about this, um, and so I put together, I’ve done that, a couple of webinars on it and then people wanted more. So I put together a course called more leads, more clients. If you go to my website and click on a photographers and then courses, you’ll see that there’s a courses, they’re more leads, more clients goes into it, it’s a one time fee and it goes deep into the entire strategy from top to bottom, a bunch of what I call one offs, a different ways to promote your lead magnet and to get leads in other ways. And again, all tied together though. And I even give examples for different genres of photography of what could your lead magnet be.

Scott: [15:31] So actually give you real world examples of what it could be. And so I’m, I’m kinda trying to help make the content easier to generate for, for all the students. So, and there’s a lot that, a lot more in the course, but you can go to the, go to the course, uh, you know, a landing page to learn a lot about it. So yeah, awesome, and we’ll link that in the show notes for sure. So people can just click right out of the bottom of the show notes and go straight there as well, so that’s awesome. Well, thanks for sharing who that stuff. Let’s take a break real quick and we’ll come right back and we’ll talk. We’ll talk about what you’re fired up about in the industry and we’ll do some lightning round questions as well.

Kia: [16:05] All right. Hey everyone, tell me if this sounds familiar. You look at your calendar and notice you need clients now so you do a little marketing and get some phone calls. You get busy helping those new clients. They scheduled sessions, they place orders and life is good, but once they’re done, your calendar is empty. Again. The reason is you didn’t have time to market while you were busy. Sometimes your business feels like a rollercoaster and let me tell you something. It is, and believe me, you’re not alone. Photographers everywhere have the same problem, but I have some great news. Matt’s business, Allison Ragsdale, photography after years of trial and error has cracked the code. It works so well. He’s created a new class all about it. It’s called get clients. Now a dead simple approach to getting photography clients. Everyone at from nothing to profit is excited to share this info with you because this system helped Matt and allison book hundreds of clients this year at their studio, and the best part about this system is that it’s simple to set up and it works while you’re sleeping.

Kia: [17:00] No hard selling or creepy marketing. All you have to do is help your clients answer their most pressing questions. Clients love the system and say it is the number one reason they book with Matt and Allison. If you’re interested in learning more about this system, go to photo podcast.com forward slash simple. Matt has created a short free video that introduces the system. If you like, what you hear, podcasts or listeners, get an exclusive discount on the full class, so make sure you got a photo podcast.com forward slash simple and sign up for the free video. It will help you book more clients now and create the business you’ve always wanted. Okay folks, we’re back with from nothing to profit and we’re talking to Scott Wyden Kivowitz today. My next question for you, Scott, is, what is the one thing you are most fired up about in our industry today?

Scott: [17:49] So we’ve been talking a lot about personal brand photography, so I’m going to sort of stick with that, um, as, as the world evolves and, and, and these new areas, a cup come up that are right for photographers like personal brand photography for example. Um, it, it’s, it’s just amazing. Think about influencers popping up all around the world every day on every topic that you can think of. There are more and more people who need photographs to help grow their reach, their brands, even if they’re not a solo preneur, even if they’re a small group, you know that you can still do personal bad photography for them. So there’s a, there’s an entirely new markets all over the place, some that probably haven’t been discovered yet from that. Someone somewhere in the middle of nowhere has discovered but just hasn’t talked about it publicly yet, you know? So I’m excited because every so often the industry kind of flat lines in a way, not like not just financially, not just, um, you know, customer wise, but just the excitement flatlined for a little bit and then something happens that just sparks new excitement.

Scott: [19:06] And another good example of this is a few years ago when Sony announced their full frame mirrorless, the whole industry was like, Whoa, you know, like it was all, something is as stupid as a camera, you know, brought a heartbeat back to the back to the, uh, the photo industry like it. It’s not like, again, not like the industry was plummeting, but it’s just the, there wasn’t the excitement, kind of flat lines every so often. So I’m excited because there’s this new era photography that is, is pumping the heartbeat and there’s going to be another one coming, you know, who knows when that will do it again. And I think that is so exciting when you see new things come up.

Kia: [19:49] Well, when you think about personal branding and when I was reading on your site about it, I thought, well, we’re already doing this for our high school seniors. We bring them in multiple times throughout the year. We do a seasonal pictures for them because we know that although they may purchase specifically from one single senior air quotes portrait session, they want pictures all year long to put on their social media and so if we’re the ones that provide it, then they will purchase senior pictures from us and so if you, if you think about it, rather than having wedding senior portraits, baby pictures, cake smashes like single moments. You could turn anyone and everyone into a client on a, on a like a subscription monthly, yearly basis and so the the possible clientele for for portraits, not senior portraits. Portraits in general. When you talk personal branding

Scott: [20:48] is limitless for sure. I mean it literally anybody, like even the people. What are those called? Plms. The people that are selling the oils and the and the handbags and all that. They are people who have personal brands because without them promoting themselves, they’re not going to sell their products because they can go next door to the person in the next neighborhood that’s also selling the product. You know, people can go. So, uh, yeah, there, there’s photographers. Solo photographers are people who read perfect for postal brand photography.

Matt: [21:24] Yeah. And let me give you a couple examples that we’ve done in our business. So you brought up the like multilevel marketing people and we’ve helped a lady that is doing skincare multilevel marketing. She’s, she’s super successful now. We’ve been helping her build her personal brand through pictures, like family pictures every fall and then head shots and stuff every year for the last couple of years. And she’s doing really well. She knows she’s speaking on the national stage. I think they were like in Orlando, there are New Orleans this year and so it was awesome. We were able to do even more stuff for her from stage where she, you know, had a, she had like a, they made a cut. It was hilarious. They made a cutout over like a life size cut out that you would see like you used to see like at blockbuster. Um, so we did that. It was like, I was so proud. Like I was like, I finally got someone to make a cutout of one of my pictures. So awesome. So we did, which is pretty cool.

Matt: [22:17] And then do other things that it came up as I, we have two former seniors that have started getting into the personal brand stuff. So one of them is in the workout space, so he’s coaching people how to work out and be healthier and stuff like that. And then we have another girl that was one of our seniors and she’s doing more like how to, how to work a side hustle kind of thing. And so like, you know, while you’re going to school and you or your full time job, how can you supplement that with a side hustle and stuff. And it’s been awesome to see them grow their brand. So not only do you see, you know, the opportunity with everybody’s all right there are already out there, but then you know, it seems like every year there’s going to be a new group of people coming up that you know are become 20 years old and they wanted their own personal brand as well. So it’s just, I think emily endlessness

Scott: [23:03] and you know what? Shark tank, the TV show shark tank just came back for, it’s whatever season it is, 6,000 or 10 season. I don’t know what season is. And, and they’re, you know, they’re pushing right now they’re pushing for anybody who 13 and up to come on the show. They’re pushing it hard. They actually had a call to action at the end of the show for anybody 13 enough to reach out to them on twitter with the Hashtag and they want, they want to get these kids to start thinking like entrepreneurs start inventing to start doing something and that is only going to help everything that you just talked about even more.

Matt: [23:45] Yeah. That’s really, it was really, really interesting.

Kia: [23:47] My 13 year old, my 13 year old son will talk to me on his way, our way to soccer practices and say, okay mom, so most people when they start businesses and he’s watching all these youtube videos on how to make money and so I, I’m sure they’re out there, lots of them. Oh yeah. Well yeah, that’s really awesome

Matt: [24:08] to move on to the lightning round real quick. Hopefully there’ll be some really awesome nuggets in here. My favorite one that’s coming up as I’m recommending it in a books or anything, but we’ll get to that in a second. So the first question is, what, when you first started, Scott, what was holding you back from becoming a photographer? Like was there a particular thing that you’re like, well, you know, maybe, you know, whatever it is, what was holding you back?

Scott: [24:29] Uh, so I, I didn’t want to work full time on the thing of that I was most passionate about and that’s actually why I’m a part time professional photographer and why I work full time for imagely. I love photography. My biological father was a photographer, a hobbyist photographer. My grandfather, his father was a hobbyist photographer and when I, when I was originally a music major and when I switched to photography and my grandfather gave me both his camera and my biological father’s camera, I fell in love with it and even though I already with, I already had a camera with me wherever I went, I fell in love with it and I just, I knew that I could make money from it and I knew that I was good at it, but I knew that if I just from knowing myself that if I was doing that every day for the rest of my life, that I would wind up hating it and I did not want to hate the thing that connects me to my bulb, to my biological father the most. So

Matt: [25:28] that was the same thing for me. And I went and became a school teacher for awhile and then I realized even ruining my favorite hobby would be better than teaching school. But all jokes aside, you know, was the same thing. I, I was completely with you on that one. Like I was like, man, I really love this. I don’t want this to become my job,

Scott: [25:47] you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, so I mean that’s, that was what was holding me back. Um, and I don’t regret it. I love my fulltime job. It gives me the freedom to connect with photographers to do things like what I’m doing right now with you and to take on business what I, what I want. Like right now my wife and I are, are actually adopting our second child and everything I can do to make more money in the part time professional photography business only helps us, you know, with the adoption expenses. So

Kia: [26:19] that’s really neat. That’s really, really cool. And it helps people to know. I think it’s always good if you have a reason behind what we’re doing, you know, obviously, you know, I do it to support my family, but when they know that what they’re doing is making a difference in helping you adopt someone that’s really special. Yep. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. So do I get to ask the next question? Okay. Scott. So is the best advice you’ve ever received?

Scott: [26:46] So that would be a practice makes permanent. It was said to me by one of my photography professors in college and it has stuck with me ever since. I don’t have to strive for perfection as, as it does. That doesn’t really exist. Perfection doesn’t exist. I have to strive for being fantastic, for being consistent and at the same time to always be learning. So practice makes permanent. Um, you know, uh, about six months ago I started karate, traditional Okinawan karate, karate, and I did it because for a few reasons. One is I, I have to lose weight and to. It’s a good physical and mental challenge, but also a way to, to, to get away from everything. Right? When I’m doing my karate stuff, I’m not thinking about anything. I’m not thinking if my, if my three year old felon got a Booboo, I’m not thinking about it anymore, which is kind of sad to say.

Scott: [27:47] But you know, at the same time everybody needs that mental break. And one of the things that they say there is to practice to make permanent. And I thought that my, my photography professor made that up and it turns out that it’s being, it’s being said by, by even my karate instructor. So, you know, I use that in everything in life now. Photography, karate, whatever it is, practice makes permanent. That’s awesome. I like that one a lot. I’m share one personal habit that contributes to your success. Well, so, uh, I just mentioned I’m a karate student, so it’s one of the many things that I take on every day. I, I, like I said, I find it a mental break as well as the physical challenge. I think that the mental breaks are essential to business, whether it’s daily or a few times a week. I do two nights a week. I’m doing a really heavy duty karate classes. Sometimes it’s weekend, sometimes I do, um, you know, off days I’ll do a lighter, a karate exercises and stuff like that on my own. But, uh, I think that whatever, whatever way you get a mental break is only going to enhance your business, your personal life and everything.

Kia: [29:00] So you’re saying the thing that you do is take mental breaks, planned ways of getting away and thinking about something totally different.

Scott: [29:10] Yeah. And you know, before, uh, I really pushed hard with my photography business photography with my mental break, but, you know, it’s, it’s so much ingrained in, in my day to day now that I still enjoy it, of course, but it’s no longer my mental break as it used to be.

Kia: [29:29] Yeah. No longer your outlet. That makes sense. Yeah, that totally does. Okay. So Scott, also, we want to know, uh, what is it, what is an internet resource or where you look on the

Scott: [29:42] Internet to get great ideas. I can share to one’s a shameless plug, one of my podcast. I love chatting with all my guests on my podcast about websites business, the podcasts called the wordpress photography podcast, and even though it has the word wordpress in it, we do talk about squarespace and other platforms as well. Basically the podcasts about photography websites and using your website for your business. So it’s a great resource for not only for me to learn from my guests but for listeners to learn and it’s now on spotify. So, but at the same time I actually think that one of my favorite resources are different facebook groups that I’m in, one of which that Matt has mentioned that is just, you know, yeah, bloggers, business people in the industry, uh, we learned from each other, but there’s, there’s a lot of facebook groups out there that are public that aren’t a invite only.

Scott: [30:39] So find facebook groups that are really talking about what your interested in learning more about, do a little vetting, make sure it’s not like, you know, if it’s, if it’s literally open open where you don’t have to even fill out a, a one was questioned things when you request to join, then it’s probably not worth the effort. Like if there’s no 100,000 people in there. And it’s about as a very specific topic. It’s probably, it’s probably not the best facebook group for you to learn from. But if it’s like, you know, a thousand people and the questions that were asked were good vetting, then you know, it might be okay. So yeah, I think you do a really good job like in the groups I’m in there with you, like not only adding value to the group but asking super smart questions and I mean I think that’s one of the things that draw drew me to you the most is just like this guy is really smart and he’s also super helpful.

Scott: [31:32] So I think, you know, when you’re in a facebook group, it’s not all just taking as much as giving and I think you do a good job. Thank you. I think you do as well. Thank you. Okay. Um, what, is there any books that you recommend or any particular ones that you read early in your career that you’d like to share or anything like that? Um, so this book is not on the newer side. This, the book that I’m going to recommend is one that’s been out for a few years. A Gary Vaynerchuk has actually written a bunch of business books. Gary Vaynerchuk is a guy that a lot of business people have a love hate relationship with either love what he’s talking about and love him and general or they just really don’t like his persona or what he’s done. He’s got a very, very, very, uh, unique personality, but one of my favorite books from his.

Scott: [32:18] I love all of his books on business. One of my favorites is Jab, Jab, Jab, right hook. It’s not the one I’m going to recommend a, but I do want to say to check out the ask Gary Vee book as well. It’s a very light read that one because that’s literally question answers and just like his youtube channel and his facebook show and stuff is, you know, people ask a question for the book and then he replied, uh, and I’m happy to share that. I’m the only photography question in the book book. I’m in the book and kind of a big deal then. But the funny thing is, is that his editors actually took all the context that way from my question. So it actually looks like I don’t know what I’m talking about when really I ended a ton of context before the actual question and they took her away and the answer really didn’t even answer that question because of how much, how much the editor’s butchered the question. But

Matt: [33:18] um, so I have a, I have a great story about the Scott. Okay. So I had an employee working here and her and I loved the ask Gary Vee show when it was, when he, before he was doing his daily Vista, when it was literally just ask Gary v and he would just answer questions that people tweeted it and stuff and it was less polished at that point yet. Oh yeah. And it was fun and he was just, he just ramble on and I really liked that part of it. So we would submit questions all the time and we never got one one on his, on his show. So Kudos to you. But then the separate than that, the girl that was working for me at the time, she had like this little side hustle job with her, with her husband and they did the posters inside of the bathrooms that you see like a above the urinals and like in the, in the toilet stalls, like where it has like four businesses on it.

Scott: [34:02] That’s their job or they, that was the advertising on one.

Matt: [34:06] They put advertising on it. So they, they go find advertisers, build the graphic and then slip the poster inside the little protective thing and kept it updated and like you could so you could have your business inside of a year a size of a toilet stall, which I always thought was kind of funny. So anyways, so she heard her husband did that, like on the weekends and it was really good. So she asked a question one time about that, like if he’s what he thought about that business model. And of course that’s the question. If he picks up after all these months of us watching it and submitting photography questions, nothing, one urinal question. And he takes it and runs with,

Scott: [34:43] I guess the question is what was the question? Crappy. But that’s awesome.

Matt: [34:49] It was an opportunity for him to talk about how, you know, five years before that nobody would ever even two years before that, no one that you would even look at their look at their phone in their bathroom and now that’s like what you do in your bathroom is look at your phone. It was, it was interesting. So anyways. But yeah. Yeah. So that’s crappy for me.

Kia: [35:08] Recommending the Book Jab, Jab, Jab, right hook by Gary Vaynerchuk.

Scott: [35:13] Yep. But I would say though, to still check out all of his books though because.

Kia: [35:17] Oh yeah, yeah. My question for you on that book, because I have it as well, do you feel like it’s still, like, what about it? Do you feel like it’s still applicable? Because I feel like it’s, you know, social media, which is what the book is about, changes so quickly that his specific examples may not as current as they could be.

Scott: [35:39] That’s true. But I think the overall premise of the book is Jab, Jab, jab is give, give, give, and then the book is to ask. So the same thing I do in my lead generation stuff is, is you’re not just selling your, you’re giving, you’re teaching, you’re, you’re providing something of usefulness to the people that you’re connecting with way before you’re ever selling. And I think that’s all the examples that he gives and sort of like the context behind them. I think our educational, even though they’re outdated at this point, I mean, and again, every business book and every social media book, they’re all going to be so outdated, you know, a year after the written because there how quickly everything’s changes. But I think the ideas behind it are still highly relevant because they, they still work better than just selling.

Kia: [36:35] Yeah. And the way he, he puts it is very. You, you can just understand that. Yeah,

Scott: [36:41] yeah, I agree. Explain it very well. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Awesome. So, so let’s wrap up there real quick before we leave. Scott, any parting advice or the best way to connect with you so people can look you up and get ahold of you? Yeah, so I will say that growing your business through your website has, has never been easier. Um, I created that lead generation course, uh, to help share my strategic system and I’d like to offer the listeners up from nothing to profit 20 percent off the course just by using the code a f, n, t, p, and of course you’ll share the website, Scott Wyden.com, but I know you’ll share the link in the show notes, so. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Scott, I really appreciate you being on this podcast. I mean, you’ve been so awesome to me and the social media world for years and so I really appreciate it. I know you’re doing a lot of really good work for photographers and I mean it means the world to me and Kira that you were able to come on and share and hopefully we can return the favor someday for you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It’d be great to get you both on the show and I’m on my podcast and connect in other ways, so yeah, it’s been great. Thank you for having me.

Kia: [37:55] Yeah, Scott, I’m so glad you were on here. This was a. We learned a lot and I do think that the resources that you have will be so helpful to people because even though you know, even if you know to do those things, I think when someone shows you exactly how to do it and step by step and you can actually implement it, that makes such a big difference. So thank you again. Thanks for having me. Thank you all for listening to from nothing to profit with Matt Hoagland and Kira bonderant. We hope you have a great day.

Speaker 2: [38:27] Thank you for listening to from nothing to profit a photographer’s podcast with Matt and Kaiya. Be sure to subscribe for more business strategy and ideas to help you create a profitable and successful business you’ve always wanted. See you on the next episode of from nothing to profit.