Shownotes
Todd’s Story
How Todd started and became interested in law. [2:40]Definitions
What is a trademark? [4:30] What is a patent? [5:14] What are trade secrets? [5:58] What is a copyright? [6:49]Business Building Insights
How to protect yourself with employees and trade secrets. [9:21] Understand when your copyright protection begins. [10:01] Should you file for a formal copyright? [11:55] Protecting your company name. [15:18] Selecting your company name. [17:34] Next steps as a new business. [20:30] How to find a lawyer. [25:08] Understanding the significance of your intellectual property. [25:52]Productivity/Lifestyle Tool
Q&A Desk Reference Sheet [28:19]Recommended Reading and Listening
Contact Links
Website LinkedInIf you found value in this podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave a review in Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts. That helps us spread the word to more makers just like you. Thanks! Sue
Transcripts
Hi there.
Speaker:You're listening to gift biz unwrapped episode 121.
Speaker:A trade secret can last forever.
Speaker:As long as you can keep something secret,
Speaker:you can own it sort of like the Coca Cola forum.
Speaker:Hi, this is John Lee Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,
Speaker:and you're listening to gifted biz unwrapped,
Speaker:and now it's time to light it.
Speaker:Welcome Nick gift bears ad wrapped your source for industry specific
Speaker:insights and advice to develop and grow your business.
Speaker:And now here's your host Sue Mona height.
Speaker:Hi there.
Speaker:It's Sue and welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.
Speaker:Whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell online or
Speaker:are just getting started,
Speaker:you'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your
Speaker:business. And today I have the pleasure of introducing you to
Speaker:Todd Timmerman with Shoemaker and Kendra.
Speaker:Todd is a business lawyer specializing in intellectual property protection.
Speaker:His practice spans a wide range of intellectual property and technology
Speaker:related litigation and transactional matters for the firm's clients.
Speaker:Today. We're going to focus specifically on trademark and copyright registration
Speaker:matters since these are the questions that frequently come up within
Speaker:our industry,
Speaker:Todd's been recognized by Florida,
Speaker:super lawyers,
Speaker:Florida, legally lead,
Speaker:and was named by best lawyers as Tampa litigation,
Speaker:intellectual property law,
Speaker:lawyer of the year in 2017.
Speaker:Right now this year,
Speaker:you guys.
Speaker:So we can be assured that we are getting top notch
Speaker:advice. Todd,
Speaker:thank you so much for joining me this morning.
Speaker:So this is going to be super crazy for you,
Speaker:but since we're all creatives,
Speaker:everyone who's listening into the show.
Speaker:I like to begin by having you describe yourself in a
Speaker:creative way,
Speaker:and that is through a motivational candle.
Speaker:So if you were to give me a color and a
Speaker:quote that would resonate and tell us what you're all about,
Speaker:what would your motivational candle look like?
Speaker:Well, I guess if you're asking what color it would be
Speaker:multiple colors,
Speaker:it would be yellow,
Speaker:orange, red.
Speaker:And the reason I say that is that's the colors I
Speaker:see every morning when I go out for my morning walks
Speaker:and it just reminds me that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:I got to start when the sun comes up,
Speaker:work till the sun goes down,
Speaker:but I don't want to miss any minute.
Speaker:And you're also going to make us all totally jealous.
Speaker:Cause you're sitting in Florida in a beautiful area and you
Speaker:had just had to bring that into the conversation,
Speaker:right, as one coming from Chicago,
Speaker:but we have listeners all over.
Speaker:So I know everybody has nice environments that they can also
Speaker:tag into here,
Speaker:but why did you get into law in the first place?
Speaker:I didn't really want to be a lawyer.
Speaker:I kind of had a different picture of what law is
Speaker:all about when I was growing up,
Speaker:my dad was a lawyer,
Speaker:but he was in a completely different area.
Speaker:And when I discovered that there was this whole area of
Speaker:business law,
Speaker:it was pretty attractive.
Speaker:My son asked me one time,
Speaker:what I did for a living when he was about Oh
Speaker:four years old and was probably disappointed to find out I
Speaker:didn't drive tractors all day,
Speaker:but he asked me what I really did do.
Speaker:And I had to stop and think for a minute.
Speaker:And I told him,
Speaker:I help people solve their problems.
Speaker:Best parts about this profession.
Speaker:That is,
Speaker:are things that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:we train and we study and we read and I can
Speaker:help people move their businesses forward with that experience and knowledge
Speaker:that I've gained from what I've done for other clients.
Speaker:All right,
Speaker:well, let's dive right into this.
Speaker:Now. This is going to be really interesting because a lot
Speaker:of people are just starting out.
Speaker:They make jewelry or candles or they're opening a gift shop.
Speaker:The business is all new.
Speaker:And at that point there are so many places where you
Speaker:have to spend your money.
Speaker:And the question comes up.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:people will search for a name of a business and all
Speaker:the other elements that go into starting the business.
Speaker:And they obviously don't want someone to take it,
Speaker:but money's tight.
Speaker:So the question comes up,
Speaker:do I copyright?
Speaker:Do I trademark?
Speaker:What are all these things?
Speaker:Do I need to do it now?
Speaker:Should I do it later?
Speaker:And so I think all of these are things that we
Speaker:want to talk about and kind of provide some direction today.
Speaker:The best way I'm thinking we should start is just by
Speaker:defining what some of these are.
Speaker:So I know we have trademarks,
Speaker:we have copyrights trade secrets and patents where the four things
Speaker:we talked about pre-interview so let's just go through a little
Speaker:bit of these and explain to us what they are.
Speaker:Let's start there.
Speaker:Sure. Trademark is what you mentioned.
Speaker:And that's what most people think of when they're thinking of,
Speaker:of IP law,
Speaker:either that or a patent,
Speaker:but a trademark is a name.
Speaker:It can be a symbol.
Speaker:It can be a slogan.
Speaker:It can be anything that is used to identify your business
Speaker:as a source of the products or services that you're selling.
Speaker:So for instance,
Speaker:it could be the name of your flower shop.
Speaker:Jenny's flower shop.
Speaker:It could be a design like the Microsoft flag is a
Speaker:real good one to think of.
Speaker:And when people see that little icon,
Speaker:they know that's Microsoft,
Speaker:it can be a slogan or flowers are the best in
Speaker:the world.
Speaker:It can be a color by its familiar with the pink
Speaker:insulation and pink is a color.
Speaker:It can be a sound or smell.
Speaker:There's really anything that identifies the source of your business.
Speaker:And that's really what most people think of.
Speaker:When they're thinking about IP law.
Speaker:A patent is another thing that's pretty well known and the
Speaker:differences a patent protects an invention.
Speaker:So if you've come up with an invention,
Speaker:you can file for a patent,
Speaker:probably the most expensive form of protection to get,
Speaker:but it can be very valuable.
Speaker:It gives you a monopoly to make the thing you've invented,
Speaker:and that can be a device.
Speaker:It can be a process.
Speaker:There are plant patents and their design patents were sort of
Speaker:overlap with trademark sometimes.
Speaker:So if someone,
Speaker:for example,
Speaker:was a jewelry maker and they created a new way of
Speaker:putting together metals or something like that,
Speaker:would that then be qualified as a patent.
Speaker:It could possibly okay.
Speaker:A very valuable,
Speaker:but that's exactly the kind of thing that would patentable.
Speaker:And then there's trade secrets,
Speaker:which is sort of the backside of the coin to a
Speaker:patent. In order to get one,
Speaker:you have to disclose to the patent office exactly how to
Speaker:practice your invention,
Speaker:a trade secret.
Speaker:You keep secret.
Speaker:And if there is something to keep secret,
Speaker:if you're able to keep it secret,
Speaker:it can be extremely valuable.
Speaker:So think of it this way with a pen and you
Speaker:have 20 years from the date,
Speaker:you file your patent application as your monopoly on the patentable
Speaker:invention. At that point into the 20 years,
Speaker:it goes into the public domain and anybody can practice it,
Speaker:but a trade secret can last forever.
Speaker:As long as you can keep something secret,
Speaker:you can own it sort of like the Coca-Cola formula.
Speaker:And the nice thing about a trade secret is it's free.
Speaker:All you have to do is keep a secret and that
Speaker:can be even more valuable than a patent in some ways,
Speaker:but in order to keep something shaker,
Speaker:do you have to take measures to keep the secret?
Speaker:And then there are copyrights.
Speaker:Copyrights are things in forms of expression.
Speaker:So if you write a book,
Speaker:you paint a painting,
Speaker:you take a photograph from the moment you create that work.
Speaker:The copyright act gives you protection.
Speaker:You can register your copyrights in order to get further protection.
Speaker:For them enable you to pursue an infringer of your copyrights,
Speaker:the copyrights protect those forms of expression.
Speaker:So creative expression of one way or another,
Speaker:I guess,
Speaker:Exactly something artistic or something that is an expression of a
Speaker:concept. Okay.
Speaker:A couple of questions for you here.
Speaker:Let me go back to the trade secrets for a minute.
Speaker:If it's secret,
Speaker:how do you formally protect it?
Speaker:The way to protect it is to keep it secret.
Speaker:So in other words,
Speaker:if you have a shop and there's some secret formula there,
Speaker:some secret process that you can't figure out just by looking
Speaker:at your product,
Speaker:even you did make sure that if you have employees who
Speaker:know that secret,
Speaker:they have a nondisclosure agreement with you as part of their
Speaker:employment agreement.
Speaker:You don't leave it in a place where somebody who walks
Speaker:into your office can see it or find it may keep
Speaker:it in a locked cabinet,
Speaker:or maybe you have a security areas in your office or
Speaker:your building where people can't go,
Speaker:unless they have a card,
Speaker:things of that nature.
Speaker:You just do whatever it's reasonable to keep it from falling
Speaker:into other people's hands who don't have any obligation to keep
Speaker:it. Okay.
Speaker:So the first thing that comes to mind for me with
Speaker:our audience might be bakers who have special recipes,
Speaker:maybe they're family recipes,
Speaker:or there's a secret ingredient that they're using.
Speaker:That makes a different flavor that nobody really knows about.
Speaker:So the protection there,
Speaker:as you're saying is obviously you do everything you can to
Speaker:keep it secret.
Speaker:And then additionally its employees and the nondisclosure.
Speaker:So that's more of the formal aspect,
Speaker:the legal aspect,
Speaker:having people sign and non-disclose That's right.
Speaker:And it can be,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:part of your,
Speaker:if you have an employee handbook that you give your employees,
Speaker:when they start working,
Speaker:that they acknowledge that can be their agreement,
Speaker:but yeah,
Speaker:recipe, it is a perfect example.
Speaker:Somebody might know,
Speaker:generally what's in the recipe by tasting something.
Speaker:If they that talent,
Speaker:or maybe they could try to reverse engineer it through chemical
Speaker:testing, but discovering the exact proportions is extremely difficult.
Speaker:And if you know those you're baking taste better than anybody
Speaker:else's because of that secret Formula.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So if anyone's in that situation,
Speaker:make sure,
Speaker:and even,
Speaker:I guess you could say today,
Speaker:Todd, if someone hadn't been covered in that way,
Speaker:just to now make sure all of your current employees are
Speaker:signing that agreement.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:I mean,
Speaker:your employees do have sort of a inherent obligation not to
Speaker:share things,
Speaker:but you need to make sure they understand and they've agreed
Speaker:to keep it secret.
Speaker:Don't tell their wives,
Speaker:don't take it home and share with their friends that,
Speaker:Hey, we have this great recipe that we use at the
Speaker:shop. I'm going to make it a home,
Speaker:right. Things of that nature.
Speaker:So they need to understand,
Speaker:alright, Move on to copyrights,
Speaker:which I think because we're creatives here,
Speaker:this would be a big one for people because we have
Speaker:artists who are doing paintings or people who are making,
Speaker:let's say greeting cards,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:all different types of things.
Speaker:Do you have to copyright each and every creation that you
Speaker:make, or how does that work Was thinking about copyrights is
Speaker:they arise just by operation of law when you create something.
Speaker:So you already have protection.
Speaker:The moment you create something.
Speaker:And if it's created by your employee,
Speaker:who's working within the scope of their employment.
Speaker:You own that as well.
Speaker:That area people run into trouble is when they hire a
Speaker:contractor, an outside party to make something for her,
Speaker:the most common example is a website you've paid for it.
Speaker:You think you own the website,
Speaker:but you have no written agreement with the website creator,
Speaker:guess who owns the copyright,
Speaker:the website creator.
Speaker:And I've seen people,
Speaker:it stuck up over that where they,
Speaker:they think they're in the website.
Speaker:They want to go make some changes to it.
Speaker:And then they get a letter from the website designers,
Speaker:lawyers saying,
Speaker:Oh no,
Speaker:you have to come back to us if you want changes
Speaker:because we own the copyrights.
Speaker:But back to what copywriters did it arises.
Speaker:When you create something,
Speaker:you don't have to register your copyrights immediately and you need
Speaker:to be judicious because there's only so many dollars to go
Speaker:around. Copyright registrations are pretty inexpensive.
Speaker:These days are about,
Speaker:I think $30 is the online filing fee.
Speaker:If you do it electronically.
Speaker:But imagine all the things you create,
Speaker:create brochures.
Speaker:You create a website,
Speaker:you have trade pieces that you pass out at trade shows,
Speaker:you have copyrights.
Speaker:And every one of those things and where a lot of
Speaker:people get upset is when their advertising gets ripped off by
Speaker:a competitor who takes a photograph that you had,
Speaker:and it takes it.
Speaker:Some texts that you had in your brochure happens all the
Speaker:time. Very frustrating,
Speaker:because you put a lot of effort into it.
Speaker:But the nice part is you can even register your copyrights
Speaker:after an infringement takes place.
Speaker:And the reason you need to register the copyrights is because
Speaker:you can't file a copyright lawsuit without registered copyrights.
Speaker:But the downside to registering your copyrights after infringement is you
Speaker:don't have right to statutory damages,
Speaker:which are presumed for performa damages.
Speaker:You don't have to prove or attorney's fees and that can
Speaker:make it very difficult and maybe overly to protect your copyrights.
Speaker:So you want to think about,
Speaker:as you create things,
Speaker:what would I be upset if a competitor took it?
Speaker:There are things that are more minor and I'd be upset,
Speaker:but I really wouldn't be that upset.
Speaker:And nobody's really going to take it anyway.
Speaker:But there may be bigger things that you use in your
Speaker:business pieces of art or in exactly a painter.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:obviously they would want to protect those rights,
Speaker:Right? Let's lay it out here.
Speaker:Let's talk about what happened to me.
Speaker:Todd, give biz listeners.
Speaker:Todd is my lawyer and has helped me with copyrights,
Speaker:trademarks, you know,
Speaker:all of that.
Speaker:And we copyrighted the software that we use over on the
Speaker:ribbon print company side.
Speaker:And sure enough,
Speaker:we found it out in the public and not through me,
Speaker:someone, you know,
Speaker:a competitor had decided that they were going to start selling
Speaker:my software.
Speaker:And so let's talk through what we did with that.
Speaker:Todd. I mean,
Speaker:I, of course was hysterical.
Speaker:I was coming home from a trade show.
Speaker:I saw it in the airport and I was like,
Speaker:Oh no,
Speaker:I can't believe this is happening.
Speaker:And so we got right on it.
Speaker:Didn't we Todd,
Speaker:We did.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:one of the things that a copyright infringer once I talked
Speaker:to the lawyer's going to find out is that the damages
Speaker:could be tremendous if they're not careful.
Speaker:And so,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:you can't let it slide.
Speaker:You have to do something about it.
Speaker:But again,
Speaker:I always appreciate,
Speaker:particularly with the startups and smaller businesses that the money you
Speaker:have to put into this is sometimes scarce.
Speaker:And you have to decide where you're going to spend it.
Speaker:But I think in that case,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:a stern letter or actually I think maybe took a couple
Speaker:of letters,
Speaker:really got the point across and they backed off.
Speaker:But that's a perfect example is software.
Speaker:You write,
Speaker:you have copyrights in the code or at least the parts
Speaker:that aren't just stored of standard modules you can get from
Speaker:providers. But the things that you write to make your software
Speaker:unique, you own copyrights so that you can protect it.
Speaker:Right? So in this case,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:the end of this story was we agreed that the expense
Speaker:to try and litigate just wasn't worth it,
Speaker:but we're able to shut it down right away.
Speaker:Plus just,
Speaker:I don't like that karma.
Speaker:I don't like that negative Carmen having that held over.
Speaker:So as long as we could shut it down because everything
Speaker:was in place,
Speaker:we were able to just be done with it and then
Speaker:move on.
Speaker:So, you know,
Speaker:a good reason to think about it earlier versus later,
Speaker:I'd say,
Speaker:would you agree,
Speaker:Todd Right.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:luckily we were able to resolve that without litigation and copyright
Speaker:cases can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker:In fact,
Speaker:any IP case can easily,
Speaker:if you have somebody on the other end who wants to
Speaker:fight it and has the resources to do it.
Speaker:And a lot of times bigger competitors will feel like this
Speaker:little competitor is just not going to have the funds to
Speaker:stay with it.
Speaker:Right. They're not going to come at it from,
Speaker:or if they do it,
Speaker:won't last very long.
Speaker:You have to get right on it and address it before
Speaker:it gets out of hand.
Speaker:So we were copyrighted and we just were able to send
Speaker:the letter and say,
Speaker:Hey, look,
Speaker:this is,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:back it off.
Speaker:And luckily that's what happened.
Speaker:They did.
Speaker:Yeah. So now let's go back to trademarks,
Speaker:which I think everybody has questions about because we all have
Speaker:company names.
Speaker:We all have symbols or logos.
Speaker:And so this would be something that everyone could think about
Speaker:and consider.
Speaker:So again,
Speaker:trademarks are all of that.
Speaker:The name,
Speaker:the logo colors,
Speaker:you said,
Speaker:if you have a tagline or a slogan,
Speaker:so how does all of that work?
Speaker:If someone has all that,
Speaker:what would be your advice to someone?
Speaker:Again, let's start with someone just starting out and then maybe
Speaker:go forward with someone who's been in business for a while.
Speaker:Cause maybe there'd be two separate things.
Speaker:You'd say,
Speaker:Well, there are multiple ways to protect trademarks.
Speaker:Everything can be in a name.
Speaker:I mean some names like you can imagine the Coca-Cola name
Speaker:is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
Speaker:At this point,
Speaker:a smaller business may not be worth a hundred billion dollars,
Speaker:but it's worth a lot to you because it tells the
Speaker:public when they see that name,
Speaker:that this is your product.
Speaker:In fact,
Speaker:the reason we have trademark rights is trademark is a valuable
Speaker:thing to a company.
Speaker:But I think from the law's perspective,
Speaker:it protects the consumer because the consumer knows when I see
Speaker:this name,
Speaker:right, I see this loader and see this design.
Speaker:I know where it's coming from.
Speaker:And I know what the quality is.
Speaker:And that's where you run into problems is somebody who's a
Speaker:competitor wants to sell a lower quality product using your Mark
Speaker:and it tarnishes your reputation.
Speaker:And so that's where you start to get upset.
Speaker:Let's face it.
Speaker:We all like the names of our businesses that we come
Speaker:up with and we don't want somebody else to take them
Speaker:away from us.
Speaker:So as I started,
Speaker:there are several levels of protection,
Speaker:all trademark rights in the United States.
Speaker:Now this doesn't go for most foreign countries,
Speaker:Right. And you have to trademark by country,
Speaker:right? Todd,
Speaker:you do so for most of us,
Speaker:it's the country in which we reside for the most part,
Speaker:wherever we are.
Speaker:Right. Okay.
Speaker:And I'm just going to talk about the United States because
Speaker:that's what most of your listeners are probably thinking about.
Speaker:Sure. But in the United States,
Speaker:all trademark rights come from use the moment you are using
Speaker:a trademark,
Speaker:you start to generate intellectual property rights,
Speaker:trademark rights in that trademark,
Speaker:in your geographic location.
Speaker:So you don't have to register a trademark to have protection.
Speaker:You have protection already under both state and federal law by
Speaker:purely using a Mark in the area where you may be.
Speaker:Now, some of us have heard of state trademark registrations as
Speaker:well as federal trademark registrations.
Speaker:What trademark registrations do is enhance or expand your rights and
Speaker:a state trademark registration in most States give you rights out
Speaker:to the boundary of your state.
Speaker:The federal registration give you a presumptive right throughout the entire
Speaker:United States.
Speaker:You do get a valuable right by registering a trademark.
Speaker:It expands those rights,
Speaker:but sort of going in all of those,
Speaker:the combo called common law,
Speaker:use rights,
Speaker:state, registered trademark rights and federal trademark rights all quarter to
Speaker:work together.
Speaker:But going back to sort of the beginning,
Speaker:when you're a new business and you're naming your company,
Speaker:you need to think about two things.
Speaker:One is,
Speaker:can I protect this farm?
Speaker:So in other words,
Speaker:is there somebody who already has it more is this Mark
Speaker:and you use throughout the United States where I'm going to
Speaker:have some very limited rights,
Speaker:but the other bigger thing,
Speaker:I think first businesses deal with this a lot is if
Speaker:I start using this Mark,
Speaker:am I going to be infringing some other company's rights who
Speaker:may have federally registered this Mark already?
Speaker:Oh, good point.
Speaker:And now you start using a name that you think your
Speaker:claim, because you don't want to move anybody in your area.
Speaker:That's using the Mark and you get a nasty letter from
Speaker:a nasty lawyer.
Speaker:Who's telling you,
Speaker:you have to stop and you have to change your name
Speaker:now, but now you've got marketing collateral that you've created.
Speaker:You've got signage.
Speaker:You have business cards.
Speaker:You've been to trade shows.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:that expense had you known what you were doing at the
Speaker:beginning could have been avoided.
Speaker:Now I won't beat around the Bush and tell you that
Speaker:it doesn't cost money to beginning undertake certain forms of protection,
Speaker:but they're already inexpensive things you can do.
Speaker:The us patent and trademark office has a public register of
Speaker:all registered marks.
Speaker:And you can do searches on that to see,
Speaker:is there anything there you can do Google searches to find
Speaker:out, are there other companies in my field using this name
Speaker:or this design,
Speaker:or what have you just to get an idea,
Speaker:not everybody who wants to go do the shorter,
Speaker:more comprehensive searches we do to get a search.
Speaker:That opinion generally runs a thousand dollars or so,
Speaker:and that's expensive,
Speaker:but there are things that you can do on your own
Speaker:at the beginning when you're starting up and just determine until
Speaker:you get to the point where you're ready to spend that
Speaker:kind of money and maybe try to go out and federally
Speaker:registered. You're afraid Mark So much sense,
Speaker:Todd. And so what you're talking about really is something that
Speaker:you can just do right online yourself and super important to
Speaker:before you start thinking of what your domain name is going
Speaker:to be too,
Speaker:because you know,
Speaker:you're going to be purchasing that as well.
Speaker:So right at the time,
Speaker:when you're thinking about business names,
Speaker:domain names,
Speaker:and you're searching and GoDaddy or wherever to see if it's
Speaker:available, you should put in just overall what Todd's talking about
Speaker:in terms of the U S patent and trademark office.
Speaker:And I will connect up links to that site on the
Speaker:show notes page.
Speaker:So everyone can go ahead and take care of that.
Speaker:And as you're saying,
Speaker:Todd, sooner versus later,
Speaker:because you want to start establishing a business that is different
Speaker:is unique and is your own.
Speaker:You're going to have to take a step back.
Speaker:If you find that someone else already has that name,
Speaker:great information.
Speaker:Okay. So the first thing to do is do the search
Speaker:right then where do we go from there?
Speaker:Todd? Let's say everything looks fine.
Speaker:Okay. The company name that I'm thinking about looks fine.
Speaker:The domain's available.
Speaker:I've Google search doesn't look like anyone has any claim to
Speaker:anything. Then what should someone do?
Speaker:Well, if your business is going to be purely localized,
Speaker:if you're not going to expand bigger in your state or
Speaker:around the country,
Speaker:there may not be anything more you need to do because
Speaker:you're, as I said,
Speaker:you're gaining use rights.
Speaker:You space common law,
Speaker:trademark rights by virtue of using a Mark.
Speaker:So if you're just doing business in your particular city,
Speaker:that may be enough,
Speaker:but there are other things you can do.
Speaker:You can do a state,
Speaker:trademark registration.
Speaker:As I said,
Speaker:we'll expand your rights to the boundaries of your state.
Speaker:Or you could do a federal trademark registration,
Speaker:which gives you a presumptive right throughout the country,
Speaker:filling those forms out.
Speaker:They seem very simple,
Speaker:but I would encourage you probably to have a lawyer do
Speaker:it again,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:cost some money over the period of a year or so
Speaker:with the federal trademark registration that it takes to get one.
Speaker:But I have had to clean up number of applications that
Speaker:folks have done on their own.
Speaker:They get an office action for the patent and trademark office.
Speaker:We go to look at it.
Speaker:Sometimes there are things we can't fix.
Speaker:The forms are deceptively simple,
Speaker:yet complex at the same time,
Speaker:because there are certain rules on the patent and trademark office
Speaker:publishes on how you have to do it.
Speaker:So you're talking about like a form that someone might get
Speaker:online and fill out and just submit that in that way,
Speaker:The state trademark forms are available through your state secretary of
Speaker:state's website.
Speaker:And the federal forms are online at the U S patent
Speaker:and trademark office website,
Speaker:which is us pto.gov
Speaker:Thinking someone could use those forms,
Speaker:but then run them by a legal person just to,
Speaker:It would be a good idea.
Speaker:And I don't encourage everybody to do undertake,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:expensive trademark searches all the time.
Speaker:If you've been using a name for some period of time,
Speaker:you probably know by now whether you're infringing somebody else's rights
Speaker:because you would have got a letter.
Speaker:And if they didn't send you one,
Speaker:it may be too late.
Speaker:Because if it's set on your rights,
Speaker:you can lose them in certain instances.
Speaker:So you probably have an idea already.
Speaker:And I don't encourage people.
Speaker:Who've been using a name for a long period of time
Speaker:and have no intention of changing it at this point to
Speaker:go spend that money,
Speaker:unless I just want to take a belt and suspenders approach
Speaker:and makes them more comfortable.
Speaker:Or if we're going to do a federal trademark registration to
Speaker:try to expand their rights,
Speaker:we might do a search to find out if there are
Speaker:people in other parts of the country.
Speaker:Because as I said,
Speaker:you space rights are only in the area where you do
Speaker:business. So for instance,
Speaker:if you're down here in Florida using a name and there's
Speaker:a company out of Washington state using the same name for
Speaker:the exact same thing,
Speaker:you might both have concurrent rights.
Speaker:They have the exclusive right up in Washington.
Speaker:You've got the exclusive right in Florida and enabled to coexist.
Speaker:So that may be a reason if you've been using a
Speaker:name for a while and go ahead and do a search
Speaker:and find out what's out there before you spend your money
Speaker:on a colony,
Speaker:federal trademark.
Speaker:So great news,
Speaker:everybody, you may not have to be spending any money and
Speaker:you're still covered.
Speaker:So if this is your situation,
Speaker:that's fabulous news,
Speaker:right? Very quickly low.
Speaker:That's talk about somebody who is,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:now in a situation where they are going to add new
Speaker:locations, let's say they were a retail shop or they sell
Speaker:online, which could mean they have customers all over the country,
Speaker:possibly even,
Speaker:but let's just keep it in this state.
Speaker:What would those next couple of steps be that someone has
Speaker:to do?
Speaker:You're just mentioning the search.
Speaker:You can do some online searches or we order more comprehensive
Speaker:searches from a company up in New York city that we
Speaker:work with.
Speaker:They give you a lot of information.
Speaker:It can be an overload of information sometimes,
Speaker:but it tells you all kinds of things about other federal
Speaker:trademark registration,
Speaker:state, trademark registrations,
Speaker:industry databases online.
Speaker:So you can get a real idea of what all is
Speaker:out there.
Speaker:Once you decide,
Speaker:though, that it looks clear,
Speaker:maybe you've gotten a legal opinion on that.
Speaker:Maybe you've just decided on your own.
Speaker:Then the next step would be to file a trademark application
Speaker:with the us patent and trademark office,
Speaker:which is an online form and something that will expand your
Speaker:rights. Once your registration is granted the boundaries of the country.
Speaker:Now it's a slow process from the date you file your
Speaker:trademark application.
Speaker:I generally tell clients,
Speaker:it'll take about a year to finish,
Speaker:to get a registration.
Speaker:Presuming it all goes smoothly,
Speaker:but the good news is your protection dates back to the
Speaker:date you filed.
Speaker:So while it's frustrating that your tax dollars are working slowly,
Speaker:you'll have protection that dates all the way back to the
Speaker:date that you filed.
Speaker:Do you recommend them to find someone who specializes or could
Speaker:someone use a lawyer from their chamber?
Speaker:Or where would you find somebody?
Speaker:If they're not near you,
Speaker:You can use a lawyer from your chamber.
Speaker:You're going to find folks in every community who do what
Speaker:I do,
Speaker:who are familiar with how these forms work and they can
Speaker:do them.
Speaker:If they're experienced,
Speaker:they can do it relatively quickly.
Speaker:You get the benefit of the fact that they've done this
Speaker:before. I don't encourage using online services that are not lawyers.
Speaker:They may not ask you the right questions.
Speaker:You may end up with a trademark registration that doesn't really
Speaker:protect what you want to protect.
Speaker:I think your money is well spent and it's not terribly
Speaker:expensive to get a trademark registration,
Speaker:but it can be well worth the money in the long
Speaker:run once you've done it.
Speaker:Right? Any other comments that you would want to give all
Speaker:of our listeners right now,
Speaker:just to kind of circle and close this conversation up.
Speaker:I think realizing that intellectual property can,
Speaker:sometimes it's an intangible form of property.
Speaker:It's not something you can pick up and move and you
Speaker:can't put it in storage,
Speaker:but it can be sometimes the most valuable thing in your
Speaker:business. And if you don't protect it the right way,
Speaker:or if you don't clear it the right way,
Speaker:it could end up costing your business.
Speaker:A lot of money.
Speaker:I'd try to encourage my clients to understand that.
Speaker:Although it may cost a little bit of money on the
Speaker:front end,
Speaker:it'll cost a lot less than litigation against some company on
Speaker:the back end when they come and they ask you to
Speaker:change your name and pay them,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:so many dollars for having infringed their trademark rights.
Speaker:That can be something that's really debilitating to your business.
Speaker:I can set you back here.
Speaker:Sure. And give biz listeners,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:we talk a lot about how are you different?
Speaker:How are you unique and stand apart?
Speaker:And part of that can be your name,
Speaker:your logo,
Speaker:your color combinations,
Speaker:trade secrets,
Speaker:like we were just talking about.
Speaker:So all of this is really smart to just think through
Speaker:consider, make decisions.
Speaker:Good news is from Todd.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:that you don't necessarily have to spend the money.
Speaker:Now, maybe you should,
Speaker:maybe you shouldn't,
Speaker:but it's clearly something that you should look at analyze and
Speaker:consciously make a decision of what you want to do about
Speaker:it today.
Speaker:Knowing the pros and cons of each decision that you make.
Speaker:And I would add to that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:one of the things that most people in my field will
Speaker:do is when I get a call from somebody with a
Speaker:new business,
Speaker:we'll talk a little bit.
Speaker:I don't generally charge people for talking for 10 or 15,
Speaker:20 minutes just about what they're doing,
Speaker:what they might think,
Speaker:because everybody's situation is going to be a little different.
Speaker:And I think if you find a good lawyer,
Speaker:they're probably going to be willing to just talk about what,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:here's the things you need to think about.
Speaker:Here's the things that you may not want to spend money
Speaker:on right now.
Speaker:And we could put those off for some time.
Speaker:So I think searching out and you can find people online
Speaker:pretty easily in your community,
Speaker:or maybe it's in your chamber of commerce,
Speaker:but just talking to them for a few minutes,
Speaker:just to get an idea might go in the right direction
Speaker:here because somebody who's going to be have some experience in
Speaker:that field is going to be able to give you at
Speaker:least good off the cuff advice.
Speaker:Sure. Wonderful.
Speaker:Okay. And give his listeners,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:there's going to be a show notes page,
Speaker:Todd, you and I were talking earlier on your website,
Speaker:you had at least one location that you were directing me
Speaker:to. Can you mention that for our listeners,
Speaker:if they want to have a little more information about everything
Speaker:we've talked about today?
Speaker:Sure. We created a number of years ago,
Speaker:sort of a desk reference.
Speaker:It was on paper at the time.
Speaker:Now it's available electronically.
Speaker:That sort of answers some of the more basic questions that
Speaker:we get asked a lot.
Speaker:For instance,
Speaker:when do I use the R in the circle?
Speaker:When do I use a TM?
Speaker:And how do I note that I have a patent application
Speaker:pending? How long has the trademark registration good for?
Speaker:And there is sort of an online desk reference available through
Speaker:a link on our website that you're more than welcome to
Speaker:look at anytime you want.
Speaker:Perfect. And I'll link that up over in the show notes
Speaker:page. So all of you can access that information.
Speaker:Okay, Todd,
Speaker:at this point,
Speaker:I want to challenge you to dare to dream.
Speaker:I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.
Speaker:It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.
Speaker:So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable
Speaker:Heights that you would wish to obtain.
Speaker:Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.
Speaker:What is inside your box?
Speaker:If you were going to give me the best gift I
Speaker:could get you give me the ability to be three places
Speaker:at the same time.
Speaker:Not just to,
Speaker:Yeah. I say that because particularly with some of your small
Speaker:business owners who are just starting up,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:you're doing so much,
Speaker:you're spending so much time,
Speaker:you're investing time in your business.
Speaker:You have your family,
Speaker:you may,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:exercise health,
Speaker:all these things and you have to squeeze it all in
Speaker:some way.
Speaker:And I faced the same challenges all of you face and
Speaker:just have to find a way to do it.
Speaker:Find a way to prioritize no business didn't ever succeed because
Speaker:somebody put too much work into it.
Speaker:And so when you're putting that work into it,
Speaker:it's well worth it.
Speaker:But don't forget to balance your life and think about what
Speaker:your priorities are.
Speaker:Totally agree with you.
Speaker:And that goes all the way back to your candle in
Speaker:the multicolors and you're going out and walking and just being
Speaker:one with nature in the morning,
Speaker:right? It's a good time to clear your head,
Speaker:get your blood flow and get your energy level up so
Speaker:that you can make it through the day at your job.
Speaker:Or maybe you've got to leave in the middle of the
Speaker:day to go get your kids from school.
Speaker:But there are a lot of things you can do.
Speaker:And making them all work,
Speaker:being able to multitask is something that you just have to
Speaker:learn and you have to do it.
Speaker:I thought for sure,
Speaker:Todd, you'd be talking about your boat.
Speaker:What happened to the boat?
Speaker:That's one of my priorities.
Speaker:That's one of the three places you'd be right.
Speaker:That's one Of three places.
Speaker:That'd be just about every day.
Speaker:There you Go.
Speaker:Well, thank you so much.
Speaker:I really appreciate you taking the time,
Speaker:breaking this all down for us.
Speaker:I've become,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:we, you and I have talked a lot and I really
Speaker:like how you've broken it down into these four different sections
Speaker:to really help us all understand what we need right away,
Speaker:what we might need in the future and what action we
Speaker:should take.
Speaker:So super appreciate your being here.
Speaker:And may your candle always burn bright tad?
Speaker:Where are you in your business building journey,
Speaker:whether you're just starting out or already running a business and
Speaker:you want to know your setup for success,
Speaker:find out why taking the gift biz quiz,
Speaker:access the quiz from your computer at Vic dot L Y
Speaker:slash gift biz quiz or from your phone by texting gift
Speaker:biz quiz to four four two,
Speaker:two, two.
Speaker:Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the
Speaker:next episode.
Speaker:Today's show is sponsored by the ribbon print company,
Speaker:looking for a new income source for your gift business.
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Speaker:for more information after you listened to the show,
Speaker:if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker:make sure to jump over and subscribe to the show on
Speaker:iTunes. That way you'll automatically get the newest episode when they
Speaker:go live.
Speaker:And thank you to those who have already left a rating
Speaker:and review by subscribing rating and reviewing help to increase the
Speaker:visibility of this round.
Speaker:It's a great way to pay it forward,
