Today I’m talking to Cara Bendon, a branding specialist, who is passionate about empowering small businesses to leverage the same branding strategies as household names to establish themselves. Cara is a returning guest, she originally appeared on episode 80, and spoke about the visual elements that make up branding.

In this episode we dig deeper into branding, looking at brand values, how you tell the story of your brand, what the customer experience is like, and the types of shots to get on brand shoots. It's a great conversation and we share loads of examples and ideas of how you can grow your brand. 

Listen in to hear Cara share:

• An introduction to herself and her business (01:37)
• Why a strong brand is important (02:08)
• The Five W’s - a framework for thinking about your brand (02:51)
• How branding is more than just what you see (05:49)
• Telling the story of your brand (13:53)
• Why brand values are important and how to share them (16:24)
• How to delight your customers (23:15)
• The importance of personalising templates on websites like Shopify (35:36)
• How to personalise your brand on Amazon (38:04)
• Useful photos to get on a brand shoot (41:14)
• Her number one piece of advice for enhancing your brand (48:55)

Cara is giving a 20% to podcast listeners, on all templates in the Branding Made Simple shop - just use the code VICKI20 at checkout.

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Cara Bendon Website 

Cara Bendon Instagram

Cara Bendon LinkedIn

Branding Made Simple Shop 

The Positive Planner

Zip Us In

BGreater Shoes

Cara Bendon Episode 80 - How To Brand Your Physical Products

BGreater Shoes Episode 149 - Selling A Product People Don’t Know They Need 

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Every week I share friendly, practical advice as well as inspirational

stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

Today on the podcast, I'm really excited to speak to Cara Bendon.

Cara is a branding consultant.

She's been on the podcast before.

Cara joined me in episode 80, which ironically is before this podcast

was rebranded, and we spoke on the episode about a lot of the visual

elements that make up your branding.

So if you haven't listened to that episode already, so that's episode

80, I think it'd be great if you could pause now and go back and listen to

that because today very much builds on what we spoke about in that episode.

So that episode was about the visual things, so the parts

of your brand that people see.

And today we're talking a lot about the things that live beneath the surface.

Um, and the things that aren't so visible so that you, like brand

values, how you tell the story of your brand, what the customer experience

is like, all those kind of things.

So it's a great conversation and we share loads of examples.

Hopefully this will be one that really gets you thinking about what you

could do differently with your brand.

And I would love now to introduce you to Clara.

So, hi Cara.

Thank you for joining me again.

Hi.

Hi.

I'm so pleased to be back.

Thanks for inviting me.

So hopefully everyone has already listened to your previous

episode, but just in case or, and it was a while ago now, can you just remind us

of who you are and what you do please?

Yes, absolutely.

So my name's Cara and I run a small agency, uh, called the Cara Bendon Brand

Consultancy, where I offer, uh, branding for, uh, product businesses, specifically

those who are quite ambitious and, uh, they have a vision for their brand.

They've created something quite innovative and they want to

see it out there in the world.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

So today is definitely going to be a progression from what we spoke about last

time, but the one thing I would like you to recap on, if you don't mind, Cara,

is why a strong brand is so important.

Absolutely.

Well, um, today's topic also covers elements that contribute to a

strong brand, but the other episode is a really good starting point

because the two just can't exist in without harmony between them.

So the visual elements of a brand tells the story of everything underneath and the

brand foundation, and that's what we're going to be talking about a bit today.

But essentially your brand is your first impression.

It's how people perceive you in the world, so it's really important.

It's really interesting you said that there's

lots more than the vi the visible elements, so that's really cool.

Well, let's talk about that a bit later because I'd like to dive into that.

Um, the first thing I'd like to ask you about Cara is I know that you talk

about something called the Five Ws.

Mm-hmm.

Do you want to tell us what they are and how they

inform and make up your brand?

Absolutely.

So one of my principles in my business is about simplifying branding and not

using too much jargon and making it complicated because honestly, I don't

believe it is at the heart of branding.

It's about creating a connection with a human.

And in the case of small businesses, it's, you know, it's

a very human, human connection.

Um, so the, the five Ws, you know, are often used in other, um, situations.

And so I thought it was a helpful framework to, for people to think

about their brand, uh, foundation.

So that would just be who, what, why, where, and when.

So in the case of your brand, it's, it's making clear that

people can understand who are you?

So your story, the founder, uh, what do you sell?

It sounds obvious, but it needs to be immediately apparent and clear to

people across your communications, your website, your brand.

Um, why should I buy from you?

And that is one that's really loaded with meaning that we'll, we'll extrapolate

on a little bit when we talk about brand values, but that's really about,

you know, making your brand compelling to consumers for specific reasons.

Um, uh, where can I get it?

Um, that's obviously more like a call to action and then when could be, you

know, when is this relevant for me?

So I find that quite interesting when you think about when is your product

relevant to someone in their life.

That's interesting in terms of, it forms your, your tone of voice,

your language that you use, the content you put out, but also the

point at which you market to people.

Um, you know, for example, if you had a nutritional supplement that was

really good for women in pregnancy, you would need to think about exactly

when it's right to, you know, to, um, meet your audience with that

message, how to meet your audience at the point that they're at.

Is it that you start, you know, much earlier or, you know, um, for example,

if you were just to put up adverts in nurseries, it could be a little bit

late for that particular baby, you know?

So it's thinking about that.

Um, and when can I get it?

Uh, so the other side of when could just be, you know, for online

consumers, especially the, when can I get it, can actually become quite

an important part of your brand.

I mean, even if, if we look at Amazon, that was one of the USPS

that they had, you know, 15, 20 years ago when e-commerce was much newer.

It was that you could get these books and you could get them within a two,

three days, um, sometimes 24 hours.

And, and with Prime, you know, that's their promise.

So that can in, in itself become a, a core part of your brand.

Thank you so much for explaining all of that.

I think these are really good questions to maybe ask yourself

if you're thinking about your brand and all that goes into it.

You mentioned earlier, Cara, that there's a lot more about

the brand than what we see.

Can you talk a little bit more about that and and what you mean?

Because in the last episode we spoke a lot about the visual things.

We spoke about colours and logos and all of that.

So what are the areas that run underneath the surface that we as

consumers may not see, um, but as brands we need to be thinking about.

Absolutely.

So branding is actually only the visible component of

everything your, your brand is.

Um, so in terms of the branding, we often think, sometimes we confuse

it with being brand and we say, oh, I've got a logo, I've got some

colours, so I've got my brand done.

But actually, if we haven't got those, uh, in understanding of our U S P, the story,

the behind the business, the values.

Then actually that branding is going to be relatively generic and not as powerful.

So by combining the two together, you have a much more strong, you

have a strong brand foundation.

Um, so one of the things I like to say is that your logo is

a little like your signature.

So your signature's really important.

It's something that's used on legal documents.

You might use it on your credit card.

It is to all intents and purposes, a legal representation of your

approval, but it isn't you.

It's just a small bit of handwriting that may be quite hard for people to

read, depending on your handwriting.

It's not all of you, and that's the same with your logo.

It's really important.

It's a recognizable thing that people will, you know, gain brand

awareness and be able to identify from afar in many different situations.

However, it's not all of your brand and if you lean too much on just

having a logo, then you risk not really having that strong brand.

So the other visual elements of branding are your website, your packaging.

Maybe you have certain brands, textures or elements or shapes.

You might have a bespoke brand pattern.

Uh, you might have a tagline for which your brand is connected or famous for.

Um, and you know, it might be then that might show up in things like

your social media, your website, your packaging, your business cards, et cetera.

Um, but all of that is your branding, and it needs to

reflect the invisible elements.

So if we were to think of this as an iceberg, all of that is what's

visible, and it should go to represent everything under the water.

Which is your brand values, your tone of voice, your positioning in the market.

So by that it's like whether you are luxury, whether you are mid premium,

whether you are sort of super affordable, whether you are fair trade, you

know, where you position yourself in the market, um, how that relates to

your product prices, your audience.

It's like I said before, it's your founder's story and I'm

particularly keen on that.

Uh, you know, why did your business come into being in the first place?

What problem was it that you were trying to solve?

Because that's incredibly compelling part of the brand, um, piece.

Um, And another thing that I would include in that iceberg is actually your customer

service and the customer experience that they have with you, because that whole

experience is going to be reflective of your brand in terms of reputation and

word of mouth, but it's absolutely nothing to do with your colour choices or logo.

So, um, as you can see, it's like the, the, the elements on the top

should reflect everything underneath.

So if you had a brand that you know, it was key to your brand to want

to bring joy to people's lives.

And you might have like brightly coloured, playful, uh, graphics that would,

that would make sense for that value.

That makes sense.

Thank you so much.

And you've, you've mentioned so many things there that I

love to dig into a bit deeper.

Um, And I think what you're saying, and tell me if I've misunderstood, is that

if you know what your brand is, who your customers are, so as you say, whether

your brand that brings joy or your brand that supports people through tough times

or whatever it is, I guess, that then can inform the visual elements of your brand.

Because let's say you are a, in the example you just gave, if you're a

brand, then you, that wants to bring joy to people, you probably wouldn't have

a very dark, somber visual appearance.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And I mean, on the flip side, if you wanted to be a brand that was

all about luxury, then perhaps you would choose dark colours.

And you might have sort of metallic elements or traditional Sierra font, uh,

you know, something to create a sense of like if you were a, you know, yeah,

a luxury brand, you might model it a little after some hotels where they're

quite aspirational and they're a little bit moody and maybe a bit seductive.

Um, and it's got to suit your brand and.

Yeah, exactly.

It relates to those values, positioning and brand personality.

That makes a lot of sense.

And as we're talking, I'm kind of reflecting everything you're saying

and it's making me think about times where I've definitely seen

brands or websites in particular.

I think I've seen this on websites where the visuals don't feel like

they match with the products or the, or the, you know what the person is

selling or maybe how they're doing it and I can't think of an example.

Even if I did, I wouldn't want to share because that would be really unkind.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I've definitely had that experience where I've gone onto a site and it's felt a

little bit of a, a disconnect between maybe the, yeah, the, the products.

It is.

It is many products where I've seen it, where I've seen products and

then I look at the overall branding on this website, for example.

And I feel like, oh, this kind of jars a little bit.

And I'm wondering if this is an example of where maybe the

visual elements have come first.

Um, handle.

It could be.

The rest of the business.

It could be, or it could also be that trap that sometimes people

fall into of thinking that professionalism can't allow for brand expression.

That personality, that in order to look as, you know, that, that, that things

have to look a certain way and obviously professionalism of your branding is, is

one thing, but if looking a certain way is actually the opposite of that because then

that just means everything looks the same.

It's very generic and it doesn't say anything specific.

Um, you know, I'm all about getting to the heart of a business and,

and trying to communicate that.

And actually it, it, um, it reminded me, you and I were both at, um, a

trade show and we saw the Positive planner guys and their brand, I think

really conveys their values so well.

Um, you know, they always have these bright colours and it's a, it's a

relatively serious subject matter, you know, mental health, but they're

all about, you know, and, and they're not about toxic positivity, but

they are about, um, being uplifting and bringing joy into your life.

So all of their cut, their product range is really bright colours.

And even when we saw them in person, they were both in, in, um, jumpsuits

with yellow converse, weren't they?

And that was just like a subtle nod to the bright yellow of their brand.

They were perfectly on brand as well.

They were really cheerful and you know, so it was an embodiment of those values that

came through those colours in their brand.

Yeah, I re you know, I remember that experience as well

because, um, I, well I still, it was really memorable for me because partly

how they were dressed, but also, like you said, they really embodied their

brand and they guessed, I don't know, it felt, to me it felt really of what

they were selling felt really authentic because of how they came across.

Um, so I think that is a really good example.

Because I do remember speaking with them and it kind of made total sense

what they were selling and why, and it, and also when we will talk about

this in, in a moment that they were talking to us, maybe you remember

about the story of the brand as well.

And um, I think that can really help connect, can't it?

If you know the story of a founder and of a brand that can really help

you as a customer sort of get it.

Absolutely.

I think that's one of the most powerful things.

I think that understanding somebody's journey and, and then you know, why

they create a product, it makes it so much more memorable and it makes it

more, it makes it a more interesting option than others if you have

alternative options for a given thing.

So I met, um, a lady, um, I've forgotten her name right now, unfortunately, but,

uh, the founder of a business called Zip Us In zip us in and, um, at an

event, and what it was, is that she, when she was pregnant, she was pregnant

through the winter and didn't want to buy a special maternity or extra

large winter coat when she, you know, that's not in line with her values of

having a more capsule wardrobe, buying things that you're going to wear for

years, not just having throwaway items.

Um, and so she devised this, um, insert that could just be, uh, clipped in and

it extends the, the coats so that, um, around your stomach or afterwards if you

ha uh, wearing the baby in a carrier.

Um, and for me it's like, it's those stories.

You see them a lot on, you know, dragons Den and shows like that, that really stick

in your mind and make you remember that.

And that's, you know, that's a, a business I, you know, have very much

kept in my mind, uh, for that reason.

Absolutely.

That's the whole point of this podcast really, is that I love hearing

founder's stories because everyone has a story, even if they think they don't.

Um, and I think there's something just nice about kind of knowing who the founder

is and having a, a face to that person.

Um, you and I were talking recently about a brand, and we don't need

to name the brand where we were saying it felt quite strange that

we don't know much about them and.

Mm-hmm.

Why the product came into existence and who,

who's actually behind it.

And, um, it, and yeah, and that for me, I don't know, it's, um, the, it's

a product that I love, but I feel like I can't get behind the brand

because I don't know who they are.

I know what you mean.

I was, yes, that specific one, I was, I was looking everywhere for some personal

story on the about page and the about page just had some, you know, very relevant

information for the audience, but I just couldn't get a sense of the origin story,

who had created this product because as you say, it's a really clever product.

So I think that, yeah, the story is a key part of it.

And what about brand values?

I mean, um, how do they play in and how do how, yeah.

So talk about how and why they're important, and also how

we might share them as well.

Well, absolutely.

So I think brand values have always been an important piece, but actually the way

things are going, it's gaining momentum and go becoming even more crucial.

Um, I think I actually, I have some stats from a report, but it's

from 2019 and that's pre pandemic.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually increased.

But, um, at that time, 72% of consumers would, um, decide whether to buy

from a brand based on their values.

Um, and I think the pandemic had no smaller fact on our sense of

um, disconnection from the world.

That then increased our desire to feel that we had a human connection through,

you know, the brands we buy from.

It was a time where, All our interactions were turned on their head

and well, were basically diminished.

And the, our behaviours were turned on their head and we were, you know,

e-commerce was the only kind of shopping.

And we also saw a rise in, in makers and creators and entrepreneurs

in that time, being resourceful and inventive with solutions.

So we have, uh, one, uh, you know, at the same time, a, a, a great increase in

entrepreneurialism and small businesses at the same time as a desire to have

more human connection and maybe buy from businesses that have more of

a personal story, more independent, more ethical, uh, more values led.

Um, so the values, now it's, it's, it's something you can't really escape.

The big boys are being held to account when they greenwash, when

they put out statements, when they support International Women's Day

with graphics, but not with actions.

You know, people see through that now, but one thing that I've always noticed

is that the small business landscape, independent businesses, especially

really small companies, are absolutely leading the way with being values led,

um, and, um, yeah, authentic in that way.

So yeah, you see these businesses being sustainable from the word go.

You see them supporting, um, you know, different types of people, accessibility

from the word go instead of just putting across a, a blanket statement

about their, their action towards this, like some of the bigger companies do.

And, um, you know, basically today's consumer wants to know that their money

is making a difference in the world, wants to know that they're supporting

companies that you know, are ethically good or at least aren't corrupt.

And, you know, basically the landscape of our world now, we,

we, we vote with our wallets.

That makes sense.

And I think what's interesting about what you're saying is I

think it's much more about what you do than what you say as well.

And that's something I just picked up on because you're right, there

has been a, you know, it feels like every other week there's another

greenwashing story in the press.

Don't shop here because they say this, that they do that.

But I think what you do is almost more powerful than what you say.

So I don't think this is necessarily about having a page on your website

that says, these are our brand values.

Because you can kind of show what your values are for your actions.

And I think that's al always almost more powerful.

So for example, I recently shopped somewhere and then after I placed the

order, I got an email that said, thank you for your order, we've planted one tree.

Um, yeah, because, and I hadn't actually seen on the website

that they did that, possib.

Quite possibly, yeah, it said that, but it wasn't immediately obvious.

But when I got the email saying about the tree, I was like, oh, I was, I

felt quite happy and I thought that was a nice, yeah, and it felt, that

kind of gave me an impression of the kind of company that they were.

Absolutely no, I, I, I completely agree.

That's really nice.

Um, and yes, my opinion is that a value is nothing without a commitment.

So, um, I always challenge my clients if we're, if we're doing some values

work, that they think about how they, how they are committing or can commit

to that, what action they can take.

But, you know, I think for small businesses as well, it's not like the onus

is on you to completely change the world.

You've also, you know, you've got to make money.

Um.

But it's like, it's how you do that in a way that is true to

your values is really important.

Um, so sustainability is one that you know is really high

on the agenda at the moment.

And, you know, it's, it's very important to me as well.

But, um, it, that's, you know, it, it, it, that's getting all

of the attention as it were.

But your values can also, um, contain things that are quite specific to you.

And I think that's actually a place that brands can stand out a bit as well,

because if they have these values, for example, it might be, um, that, um, you

know, they want that the, the founder's story relates to mental health and their,

their value is to always, you know, support mental health of their team.

And then their action is that anybody can call on the morning of

a day they're supposed to work and say, I need a mental health day, or

whatever it might be, you know, rather than just, uh, lip service to it.

If that's, if that's something that they could do through their business,

or if it's a one man band and that's the commitment, then, you know,

it's, it's about being true to that.

In, in terms of, okay, it might be, um, uh, charitable contributions to,

you know, a charity that would support mental health, but it also could be

about having a pillar of content that shares things about mental health.

Um, you know, and encourages that as, as something within the brand itself,

within other posts such as, you know, self-care or meditation or movement.

Because actually it doesn't always have to be, oh, right, you know, who do I write

a check for in order to prove this value?

It's about how are you bringing this through to your

community and your audience?

That's actually just as valuable.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I was thinking about this, of knowing that we were going to speak and I was

trying to think of some examples because I, I like to shop with small businesses

and I do shop with small businesses and a few things that I've seen sort of

recently is, um, businesses that sort of commit to only sending orders in,

um, recyclable packaging for example.

And that's, it feels like a small thing, but it kind of demonstrates their

values or because or companies that have excellent customer service where you send

an email and then you get um, you know, you, you get a reply back within an hour.

I mean, you don't need to reply that soon, but you know what I mean.

You get a personalized reply, that's really nice.

Or I shopped in somewhere recently and they put a little like

chocolate bunny in with my older.

So it's a really small thing, but it just gives you, as a customer a

really nice feeling about that brand.

Um, and I'm sure you've got tons more examples, Cara.

Can we talk a little bit about that?

About how you can stand out and make your customers feel as happy as I did

when I got a chocolate bunny in the post.

Well, I think everyone should put a chocolate

bunny in every package, but yeah.

Well I think that even things like that email about the trees being

planted was a good way of doing that because, and, and I've always liked

Etsy that they, their packaging said that you are, um, delivering

it was off offset and that's nice.

Um, I mean, going back to, you know, the, the values just briefly something that,

um, that occurred to me is that, if, so certain small businesses may have certain

days that they, that they ship things.

And that may seem very contrary to our, you know, um, convenience, um, society

where we want things as soon as possible.

But if it's very clear, clear in the brand why they do it, and say it was to reduce

carbon emissions with trips to somewhere that they could post them or whatever,

or even if it was, you know, to save on uh, man hours because it's somebody

and they are balancing it alongside something else or their mental health.

Then if it was communicated clearly, I think that people would come to respect

that and understand that from the brand.

Um, but moving back to, uh, chocolate bunnies, um, I, I think that is a

guaranteed win, but I think that any little thing that brings a little bit of

charm, and it's funny you said chocolate bunnies actually, because of, I actually

call these like Easter eggs as in that term that you'd have for, um, for, uh,

films where it's little things that are like secret, um, in jokes as it

were, except that they're not in jokes.

They're something where you are bringing a little bit of your

brand to life with your customer.

You are having a little bit more connection because, um, you know, the

relationship between brand and consumer only grows with more connections.

So, you know, it's little things like, um, I, I've had packaging where, um, the tone

of voice on it has been really amusing.

Uh, rather than sort of, uh, having a load of access information, uh,

you know, um, it, or it, it, it's, it's provided the information that's

required, but in a, in a way that was a little bit more, um, humorous.

That's been quite fun.

Sometimes you see it when you pick up an item and underneath it says

something like, nothing to see here, you know, and it's, um, and

actually I love, um, tip tree jams.

It's just such a small thing, but they're minis and you get them sometimes when

you go to hotels and stuff, and they all have sweet messages underneath.

Um, so things like, you know, uh, I'm not sure exact, I can't actually

remember the, the message I last got, but they're always quite sweet,

uplifting things and that's just nice.

It's like a complete added and unexpected extra.

Nobody would look at the market of, of condiments and say, right jams, in

order to be a professional jam brand, we clearly, you know, this is a requirement.

It's just something extra that they've done.

They've associated breakfast or jam, you know, maybe you'll have jam on

toast or they've, they've associated that with a little moment of joy.

A moment for yourself, and they've played into that with a message.

I also, um, a, a previous, uh, guest on your podcast, uh, was Be Greater, um,

shoes, the Barefoot, uh, kids Shoes.

And I, well, I love listening to your podcast and discovering brands.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

But, um, I loved when, when, um.

Uh, I was listening to that interview, um, what he was describing, that

he'd put a smiley face in the centre of the, of the insole of the shoes.

Um, and it was half a smiley face in each shoe.

Now for me, I was already sold.

I was like, I love it.

It's cheerful, it's unexpected.

It doesn't affect the product in any negative way.

Only brings a little bit of private joy.

Um, which is lovely.

But then when I understood the reason I was even more sold.

And the reason is that, um, it's to encourage your children to

independently be able to put their shoes on the right feet because the,

you know, the left and the right would join together to make a smile.

So when you're laying out your shoes, the child would be able to tell whether

they were the right way round because the smile would be formed or it wouldn't.

And, um, I thought that was great.

I thought not only is that something that's bringing a

little bit of charm, it's actually adding value to that product.

It gives it a little bit more practicality and, and, and it's a real U S P for them.

I really love that too.

Um, and I, anything, I think any little added thing, and particularly when it

doesn't necessarily have to cost you as a brand or be a big inconvenience.

So another shoe related example, this is actually a bigger brand, but I

brought my daughter some new school shoes and they actually came in a

box and the box was, had like some sort of sea life patterns all over.

Just, you know, the standard cardboard box, you get shoes in.

Yeah.

And it was designed for the child to then colour and

then use to, you know, put toys in or do whatever they wanted to do with.

And I just thought that was so clever because it encourages you to keep the box

rather than just recycle it immediately, you know, if your child loves colouring

or maybe, I like colouring, actually.

Um, it's quite a fun thing to have.

I just thought that was a really nice thing that probably didn't cost them

anymore to produce than producing the standard box with the logo on.

But it was just like a really nice little extra.

And I think as a customer, it's always lovely when you get

something unexpected, and it doesn't have to be a physical thing.

It's like you say, even like a little message or something that, just, just

anything that makes you smile really.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, um, I, in our last, uh, conversation we spoke about, um, the unboxing

experience a little, and we actually spoke about beauty pie and how they

were ones that did that really well in terms of providing that experience.

But also, uh, you know, they are a quite big company and there's lots of smaller

companies doing great stuff as well.

And one thing that, you know, in terms of the sustainability angle,

something I've been giving a lot of thought to is how can you provide

that unboxing experience, but still be true to that sustainability value.

And um, you know, I think that reusing the box is one of the best ways to do that.

However, if it's a, if it's covered in branding, you are unlikely to

do that, even if it's a fairly sturdy box in a nice colour.

I know I'm not as inclined to, I mean, I might put my Christmas

decorations in it, but I'm probably not as likely to have it on display.

Um, I love that example you gave because it's actually, it comes from a value.

It comes from the value of sustainability and wanting people to reuse the box.

It actually, um, will probably help create, um, extend their brand

awareness because you keep the box in the house and it gave you a good

customer experience, so you're more likely to tell people about it or shop

for a similar product from them again.

Um, but also the fact that it was colouring in, you know, now

obviously because that was a kid's product that makes sense because

it was like, oh, you know, it's a fun activity for children to do.

It's almost, it provides an activity.

So the parents are happy, it gives the child something to

do for half an hour, whatever.

But.

Yeah.

There's many other ways you could, you could bring that in.

Like for example, a, a brand who had mindfulness or wellbeing as a goal could

do something similar on a smaller scale.

And, and, and that could be nice.

Um, but I think.

Just basically, I think workshopping it and brainstorming is the way,

because trying to just think, what, how could I do this better?

How could I do this differently?

What's brought me joy in the past?

What works for our customer and our audience?

And not just doing something just because you heard it from another brand and it

sounds as cool because the, the, you know, the opposite of that is just getting a

load of paper, a load of inserts when you order something and then actually

feeling quite bad because, well, if you're like, you put them in a drawer

for a week because you think, oh, I'll read those next time I have a coffee.

And then you realize life just doesn't give you the time for that kind of thing.

And they go in the recycling and then you feel bad.

So it's like, you know, obviously you have to have some, but it's not just

shoving a loads of extra stuff in there for the sake of, it's about thinking what

works for your customer and your brand.

I think you're right because also if you're just copying

what someone else is doing, but there's no meaning behind it, I guess

it could also feel quite inauthentic.

Yeah, and I, again, I can't think of a good example of this now, but

I've definitely had experiences where something hasn't felt quite right.

And I think that is an instance.

And I've, to be honest, I've never had this with small businesses.

It's mainly been with bigger businesses where they, I guess they've been

kind of trying to emulate something they've seen small businesses do,

but it doesn't work on that scale.

It doesn't feel in line of the brand.

Does that make sense?

I wish I could think of a good example of that, but do you kind of know what I mean?

Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

I think that a consumer can sense if a brand is just trying

to do what they expect, what they, what they feel is expected.

Um, and you know, especially for product business owners.

You know, you are, uh, entrepreneurs most of the time, and I find

that incredibly inspiring.

If you are coming up with a product or a way of doing things that is better

or different, um, to how it has been done before, then that's incredibly,

um, entrepreneurial and you can use that mindset to also approach the

rest, e everything about your business.

And it will, it will actually strengthen the brand.

Um, So it's like if you are inventive about your product and then you know, you

carry that through, it's, it's, it's being disruptive and saying, okay, what are the

norms and how could I do this differently?

And just to clarify, this is very much going above and beyond.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to constantly disrupt at every level,

but if you can disrupt in the way that you send things your, any part of the

customer journey that in a way that relates to, you know, uh, your brand

values, your brand personality, and your audience, then it's going to really

help you stand out and be remembered.

It's going to make a big impression.

You are right.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be like a big thing either, does it?

So we are not trying to say that everyone listening needs to go away

and completely change all aspects of their business, but it might even be,

yeah, switching to recycled packaging or having packaging in your brand colours,

because that's something you can do now.

I think it could be something really, really tiny.

Um.

But I think it's just thinking about what represents you and your brand.

I think it's a really good exercise to pretend you're a customer

and buy your product, um, because, um, if that's possible for you, but, um, I

think that because say you've been in business six months, or you've been in

business six years, um, I don't know where the figure six came from, by the way.

But anyway, if you, you, um.

To some extent, you might have disconnected from what the user

experience is and, um, if if, yeah, if that's the case, I mean, you can

either get someone else to do it.

If you can do it, that might be helpful as long as you can just, uh, be as

objective as possible and just see, and I mean, I, I do it sometimes.

I, I, you know, uh, just to see how people come across my

website and things like that.

You can see what one improvement could you make along that journey?

Could you make things a little bit less?

Um, yeah.

Could you take a little point of friction out of the customer

journey in buying with you?

Could you add a little bit of charm somewhere along there?

Could you know, is is there a brand value that you could consolidate for

yourself so that you know what it is that you could try and spring into your

brand if you, you know, it's all about incremental, uh, changes in progress.

And if you were able to do that much, then you'd be making a huge, huge improvement.

I think that's such a great idea because

there's, there's possibly things all of us completely overlook.

So as an example of that, years ago when I had my own products business

and I had a Shopify site, when someone placed an order with me, they would

obviously get the email saying, thank you for your order, whatever it was.

And one, one time a customer got that email and they replied to me.

Um, and maybe they had a question or something, or, and it was only when

they replied, I realized how dull the email was that they got, because I'd

never gone in and edited the template.

This is such a small thing, but it was, the email was something, you

know, very, it didn't sound like me.

It was just, thank you for your words, I'll let you know.

And it's whatever it was.

Yeah.

And as soon as I realized, I just updated that with a personal

email that said, hi, thanks, bye.

I can't, whatever I put and put my name on it, and that kind of thing.

And interestingly, after I did that, I started getting so many

more replies to those emails.

Oh.

Um, Just from people interest saying, yeah.

Uh, it was, I found it really fascinating that people were taking the time.

I actually got some emails that just says, thanks, you know,

thank you for this nice email.

And I was like, oh, that's so interesting.

And I completely overlooked that that was something that I could impact.

It wasn't, and it was tough.

I never thought, didn't even realize.

Um, so I think that's a great idea.

That's it.

I absolutely just go through the process and just even put it in your own tone

of voice, your own brand colours, and you know, I've been guilty of this,

you know, so I'm a service business, but I have the template shop and

that's relatively new for my business.

And I didn't realize that I had the same thing.

I had some fairly generic looking pages for checkout, and you know,

these things are relatively limited.

I know that with Shopify and many other sites, you, you've

got to live within the rules.

It's upload a logo here, choose the colour here, and that's it.

You know, but where there, wherever there's text and wherever that text is

edited, editable, that's an opportunity to bring in a little bit of brand

personality, a bit of tone of voice.

I mean, you could, if you wanted, even at that point, have a little bit about your

business, um, you know, why that receiving that order helps or, you know, a little

bit of brand story, something like that.

I mean, I know that's after the event that they've bought, but if,

if that isn't something that you think has been communicated uh enough

before, then why not offer it then?

Um, but yeah, so basically, yeah, just looking through and seeing

where there's an opportunity to, to be more human in the process.

I think that's great advice.

I think being humans is really important and it really does help.

Um, to give another example, if you don't mind, is that when I obviously

helped lots of people selling on Amazon and years ago, because this

isn't something you can do now.

Years ago you used to be able to get some software that integrated from Amazon so

that when a customer brought from you, they would get an email that was from you.

So as well as getting the Amazon thank you for your order.

They would also get, thank you for buying for my small business.

Um, this is who I am.

If you have any problems, let me know.

What I found really interesting is with my clients who implemented this kind of

email system, their return rate started going down because the customer then

had a point of contact to go back to and say, my order hasn't arrived, or

it's arrived, but this is the problem.

Can you help me?

So whereas previously they might have just gone onto Amazon and left a bad

review, they were actually reaching out to the business because they then had

that point of contact and explaining what their issues were and then most of

the time the business could then solve that issue and it just prevented them

getting a negative review or or a return.

And I found that super interesting.

And I think it was just because, and I think this is sort of a thing that

to think about if you're selling, even if you're selling on a platform

like Amazon or Etsy or somewhere else, there's still plenty of opportunity

to kind of get across who you are and a bit about your business.

So it's not so faceless because I feel like if it feels faceless

you are more likely to perhaps leave a ruthless review, maybe.

That's exactly right.

No, but that's what I was thinking when you were saying that.

I think that's fascinating.

But that's exactly it.

I think that people, um, um, you know, there's no emotive connection

with a faceless corporation.

So you buy from Amazon, you don't feel anything for, for, you know, ordering too

many and then returning lots or whatever it might be, because they're Amazon,

you, you've seen in the news about them.

They can take the losses, they can take the hits, whatever, but as soon as it

becomes a small business that's, you know, operating a, a leg of their business

through Amazon, um, then it's human.

And not only have you, yeah, as you said, they can actually get in touch if it's a

practical issue, but I think I wouldn't be surprised if the returns rate decreased

because it felt more like a real person behind the business and then, you know,

felt more like, yeah, not as disposable.

I think so, and I know we've spoken on projects

that we've worked on together.

We've definitely spoken about encouraging brands to actually

put a bit about their business on there, maybe even a photograph of

themselves, just so that people can see.

Um, I mean as you, you'll have seen on Amazon, now you do get,

if you have a small business, you do have a small business logo.

Someone knows they're buying from a small business.

But you can take it that step further.

You can add your brand story, you can add a photograph of yourself.

You can give that background.

Um, and that's something you've been able to do for a while.

Um, I've certainly been encouraging clients to do this for a really long

time because I think it is that important that if you are in a marketplace like

that where you could get lost among all the other people selling similar

products, I think that's a, that's kind of a place where it's really

important to make an effort to stand out.

Definitely, and, and if you, you know, if the thought of putting your

picture up on your Amazon page or on your website just terrifies you, then there

is a, a, a slightly softer approach as well, which is actually when it comes to

your photography, when you are getting brand photos done, try and get a few

of you in the process of designing the product or making it if you're a maker

or just packaging it if you know, but in some part of doing, and therefore it

doesn't have to be a complete headshot if you were really uncomfortable with that.

But those pictures as well are so valuable.

I mean, I've had a candle client and uh, the hand poured client, uh,

had poured candles and you know, that's something that we communicate.

Uh, through the brand and it's part of, you know, what makes them special.

Uh, they're, they're made with really good quality waxes, et cetera, et cetera.

And the number of times that I have just wished that we had, um, more making

images, um, to be able to communicate that has, you know, it's been high.

So I'd say that that would be a tip as well to take away from this is if you, if

you haven't had a photo shoot done or you haven't had one done in a while, you've

changed your hair, you look different.

Or it's just your old, your photos are a little old now.

Then definitely if you are considering one, then definitely get a few behind the

scenes type photos because not only can you use them on social media, but that

they can be connected with your brand story on places like you're about page.

And they really help people like to see people, people like to understand

who it is that they're buying from.

Um, so they're really powerful that way.

I think you're, you're definitely right.

They are really powerful and I know not everyone likes your idea of

using like a corporate headshot.

Um, I certainly don't, um, when I had my brand faces and I got

some, you know, photos of me doing other stuff done for that reason.

Um, and also I guess they can sometimes, in some instances they can look a

bit old fashioned, but as you say, if you can illustrate what you do.

For example, I'm working with a company now who makes olive oil and um, one

of the photos they use is a photo of them in their own, is it a vineyard?

In their own, on their own.

Yeah.

I'm not.

Orchard.

It's a photo handpicking basically.

Yeah.

There's a photo of them out there doing the, picking themselves.

And I think that's really nice because not only does it show you the people,

because it's a family business, it's not only shows you the people working

in the business, but it actually shows you them working in the business.

So they don't need to, they say pictures, it's, there's a thousand words.

They don't need to tell you it's a family business and that they can

pick everything because they've got a photo of them doing it.

And I, I.

I really liked that when I went to take a look, I was like, that's really

good because it just says so much.

Like I think if you are a maker, having pictures of you making

your products would be amazing.

Um.

Absolutely.

So actually it's funny, I feel like perhaps because we're recording this

just before Easter, we're coming back to Easter eggs and chocolate

bunnies constantly, but I feel like, uh, this is something I just, I once.

Uh, called the Lindor of that particular client because, you know, they're adverts

where, you know, Lindor is a, a prob I, I'm not even sure how it's produced

now, but I assume it's, uh, uh, mass produced now it's available in all

supermarkets, uh, very well known, but that they keep that narrative that it's

made, um, in Switzerland by chocolatier who are, who are wearing chef's

hats and ensuring that consistencies just right before they pour it.

Um, and you know, actually we love, we buy on emotions.

I mean, I, I booked restaurants, um, for a special occasion, and I was sold because,

you know, I, I think my stomach even started to rumble when I looked at the

pictures of them making pasta because they were putting it through the pasta press.

And it was like, yeah, that's better than just showing me, uh, you know,

uh, an interior with a chandelier and some wine bars on a table.

Because now I know that you take your food really seriously because

you make the pasta from scratch.

So I, you know, I'm in.

Yeah, and actually what's really interesting is that

in that example, I think that seems like it was more powerful than if

they showed you a picture of the finished pasta dish on a plate.

Yeah.

Well, I think, I think sometimes you want a bit of both to be, yeah.

But, but yeah, but I, I agree.

I think there was something about that image that.

Immediately told the story, it immediately told me a story of pasta

being made in traditional methods as it always was, you know, as it

still is by a lot of Nonnas in Italy.

And, you know, and it, it, it, it, you know, it probably, I'm being very

naive about this in my urban life, but it brought this whole lovely narrative

of caring about ingredients and food and process to life in one picture.

That makes sense.

And I think hopefully, um, because I don't think we've gone off, well, we

haven't gone off topic, but we have been sharing lots and lots of examples.

But I really hope that this will help sort of spark everyone's

creativity and imagination.

Um, and that we've spoken about at least one thing that you can

now go away and do or think about.

Um, because I think we have hopefully thrown out lots and lots of ideas here.

And I think, um, something else that I'll add, if you don't mind, Cara, is, is.

It's, I think if you are thinking about you want to do something a

bit different in your business, maybe disrupt things slightly.

Like you said, it's not about copying other people, but

just see what other people do.

Kind of take notice when you buy things like what you like and what you don't

like about, whether it's the ordering process or the emails you get or how

the products packaged or whatever it is.

I think it's one of those things where we kind of, we're all busy and it

just happens, but I think if you start taking notice of that sort of thing,

um, there's a lot you can pick up on.

Definitely, and I think if there's anything that comes to

mind, uh, sooner, then that was an example of a brand that was

doing it well because it stood out.

Yeah, that's true actually.

I guess you can, you can all think back to like the last time that you

were like really delighted by something that you brought and, um, I'm sure that

hopefully for all of us, there'll be something that comes to mind right away.

Yeah, and I, I mean, it's a big ask as well to say really delighted.

Sometimes it's just the small things.

What just made you smile slightly when you were standing in the queue

to buy it or when it came through on email, you know that I think

that's a great thing to aim for.

Yeah, I'd be honest, I am easily delighted.

That's why I use that example.

No, I mean that's.

I'm a great customer.

If you could delight people, then brilliant.

But I don't want people to feel like, oh God, what?

What have I bought in the last month?

Not everyone will be as easily impressed as I am.

I do understand that it doesn't take a lot.

We, we work in the industry, so we have a slightly atypical behavior

with these things, and I'm the same.

I'm like always, you know, noticing packaging of photographing,

packaging and shops and, you know, looking like quite a weirdo.

But yeah, definitely the small things, even to the most hardened consumer,

they will still register a part of your brand in a way that others aren't.

And I guess it, it all ties back to just helping you stand out.

Stand out, which I guess is what having your brand is about.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

Um, yeah, so.

That feels like a great place to wrap things up Cara.

Yeah.

But I do have one more question for you if that's okay.

So I think we've covered so much today and I almost feel like this is a bit about

um, enhancing your brand because a lot of businesses might have thought about

the visual elements, and I think that it, that can be a thing you think about first.

I know that when I worked on my very first brand, it was all about the visuals.

That was really all I took into account.

And then the other stuff, the values and everything else came later.

So what would your number one piece of advice be for someone who perhaps

has a brand but is looking to enhance or build upon what they have so far?

Yes, definitely.

So I was thinking about this and I would say it's revisit your about page.

So if you have an about page, um, or if you don't have an about

page, it's time to make one.

And if you have your about page, but it's really hidden, then it's not on

the top nav, then let's change that too.

We want to make it very easy for people to be able to find out a little

bit more about you and your brand.

Um, but if you do have an about page, then just revisit it and see, does

it cover things such as, you know, your founder story, why your business

came to life in the beginning?

Um, and by who, what solution were you, you know, were you trying to solve?

When was it and, and who was it?

Um, and a really nice way I always love when businesses do this is

include some historic photos along the journey of your business.

So if your business is, you know, uh, just started in the last few months,

then that might not be as relevant.

But if there is some story or even some story from your past, for example, say you

had a dress that you adored as a child and you tried to find one similar as an adult

and couldn't, so you'd started designing dresses, then why not include a picture

of that lovely dress that sparks it all?

Um, if you, if your business name, I have one of my previous clients.

Um, it's a florist and, um, the business name is Wild Rosamond and, uh, the,

the client's name is not Rosamond.

Uh, she's called Bridget.

But actually the story is that her grandmother Rosamond loved the

garden and was always in the garden.

And that a, you know, a, uh, core memory for Bridget when she

was growing up was spending time in the garden with her grandma.

So, you know, telling the story of your business name, um, is, is really nice to.

Another brand that does that well is Oto and Ivy, um, who I just

came across actually, um, through a podcast as well and their name.

So they make shoes for larger feet and their name Oto is, um, eight in, um,

in Latin and Ivy because it grows tall.

So, Eight, representing a large women's shoe size, um, which is their

starting size and Ivy representing, you know, elegance and tall.

It, it makes complete sense to me.

So Basical, uh, yeah, if you can explain how you came about, if there is a

story behind your, your business and your, your brand name, then share it.

If you've got any photos of the pro process, then share it and

do have your values on there too.

And make sure that they are underpinned.

Yeah.

Make sure that your values feel like things that are authentic to your business

and things that you can make, um, actual commitments in the way you do things.

That's amazing.

Thank you.

And Clara, I know you have loads of resources, um, that will be

really helpful to small businesses.

Is there anything you would like us to go and look at first?

Um, what would, what would you suggest if people want a little bit of support?

Yeah, so I am actually working on creating a lot of

resources in this area because it's something that I get asked a lot.

Um, so I have a website branding made simple.co.uk or if you go to cara

bendon.com, it's on the shop tab.

And there you can find, um, templates and tools of things that I have

used with one-on-one clients.

Um, and I'm working on one at the moment, which is going to

help you work out your values.

Um, And I'm really pleased with that actually, because, um, not

to sound smug, but it's something that I think I worked on my values.

I reassessed them, uh, uh, about a year and a half ago when I rebranded.

And it was a really useful exercise for me to do.

And, um, it actually gave me a lot of clarity in how, what content I should

be putting out and the, and the way I, some certain business decision.

So I think it's really good and I'm, I'm all for basically helping

businesses create values that feel true to them rather than just platitudes

that they feel that they must have.

And then that immediately communicates a lot of your brand

personality and cares as well.

So, um, yeah, I'd say that would be a great one to start with.

Amazing.

And they're available on your shop?

Yeah, they are on my shop on my website.

So, uh, it's branding made Simple .com.

Uk, um, or on the shop tab of my main website.

Um, I believe you, we could put the links in the, uh, show notes.

Oh, we'll definitely put in the links.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

And, um, I have an offer as well.

So for, um, I love this podcast.

I think it's a fantastic resource and I love listening to it personally.

So for all listeners, I've got an anytime offer of 20% off on all of the templates.

With the code Vicki 20 as well.

That's amazing.

Thank you so much.

It's so kind of you, Cara.

So that's Vicki with an I, everyone if you want to use that offer.

But we'll also put the details in the show notes and of course if you have any

questions about the code or anything else, then do feel free to reach out as well.

Brilliant, and thank you so much for being here again, Cara.

Thank you so much.

It's been, it's been wonderful to have a, a lovely conversation with you about this.

Something I'm very passionate about.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode.

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,

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