Join us for a thought-provoking 40th episode panel discussion as we delve into the realms of Web3, NFTs, and the Metaverse. In this episode, we explore the exciting intersection of technology, creativity, and commerce, focusing on the future of brands and artists. Our distinguished guests include Arvin Khamseh, the visionary Founder of SoldoutNFTs; Nodo Ivanidze, the innovative mind behind MetaViu; and Renata Lowenbraun, the trailblazing CEO of Infanity. Get ready to gain insights into how these pioneers envision the evolution of digital ownership, artistic expression, and the immersive Metaverse landscape. Don't miss out on this engaging conversation that promises to redefine the way we perceive the digital realm and its impact on brands and artists.

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40th Episode Panel - Web3, NFTs & the Metaverse: Future of brands & Artist

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Arvin Khamseh (Founder of Sold Out NFTs)

• Nodo Ivanidze (Founder of Metaviu)

• Renata Lowenbraun (CEO of Infanity)

00:01

Nadja

Hey web3 world. This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam, the all in one web3 investment ecosystem empowering early stage startups. And of course, you are listening to the Future of NFTs, the show that looks beyond current NFT use cases to what non fungible token technology is evolving into very exciting times. Of course, all of this as seen through the eyes and built by the minds of the fascinating guest speakers that we speak to each week. As for AdLunam, from tokenomics to community growth, VC fundraising to IDO launches and our unique Engage to Earn platform, we are transforming the way that investors experience the world of web3 investing and dynamic NFTs.

01:07

Nadja

And through our monthly web3 pitch arena, we are bridging the gap between innovative startups and venture capital. Next one up in just the coming few weeks. So on today, we have an incredibly special episode for you because this is our 40th episode. We're celebrating this milestone with a panel discussion. Amazing speakers on the show today talking about the future of web3, NFTs and the metaverse. Now, our guests today are an eclectic and experienced mix of thought leaders and builders in the web3, NFT and metaverse space, representing a wealth of knowledge from their respective fields. So let's get going. Our first panelist. Renata Lowenbraun is the CEO of Infanity a fan first music community leveraging NFTs. Renata is a seasoned operational leader, executive and attorney in the web3 digital identity and music industries. She brings a wealth knowledge from her varied experience and is set to redefine the music industry's dynamics through NFTs.

02:18

Nadja

So if you have an interest in music and what web3 is going to bring to the space, definitely stay tuned. Next up, we have Arvin Khamseh, the founder of Sold Out NFTs as a go to web3 marketing expert. Advanced experience investor relationship marketing and his success in NFT marketing have set him apart in this exciting digital revolution. And if you've been listening to the Future of NFTs for a while, this is actually his second time on the show. You can find our exclusive chat with him on Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast. And then joining them is Nodo, the founder of Metaviu.io, a pioneer in the field of metaverse advertising. With over a decade's experience in advertising and a keen eye for web3 investments, Nodo is at the forefront of the intersection between advertising and the metaverse. And last but not least, although he will be joining a bit later than the other guests today we have Jibran Tahir who is an ad film producer turned web3 entrepreneur, founder of Manifest Studios, which helps brands transition from Web2 to Web3, and also the founder of NFT.KHI, Pakistan's largest NFT festival.

03:39

Nadja

I'll be speaking there this October. So if you're in the area, come join us. Very excited to be experiencing Pakistan for the first time and on today audience. If digital ownership, virtual worlds and what it all means for the future of brands, artists and society at large gets you excited, then sit back and enjoy the show. So, guys, welcome. I think today is going to be a very interesting discussion. As you've heard from the introduction, our guests really come from so many different and diverse backgrounds, but as it always is in this amazing industry that we find ourselves here, we all are talking about Web3 and what it means for the future. So to kick us off, I think I am going to just establish a baseline in terms of where we've been and where we are going. So my first question to all of our guests, I'd love for you to describe the evolution that you've seen in the world of Web3 and NFTs since you entered this industry.

04:44

Nadja

Renata, can we start with you?

04:47

Renata

Sure. Thank you for having me. The space that insanity is in is right, primarily music. So we've been looking at that space very closely. And for us, and for my experience, the recording industry in particular is one of the earliest industries to have been dramatically transformed by digital in its history. Right. It went from, if you think about way back, there was vinyl and then cassette tapes, then CDs, then digital downloads, now streaming. And so Web3 with NFTs in particular, there's been a lot of experimenting going on and some companies that have been taking the leap in there, beginning with electronic music, who were the earliest adopters. And so we're beginning to see some independent artists emerge out of Web3 and also some of the major labels, which is the Universal Music Group, Warner Music. Right. The larger companies that dominate, they're beginning to experiment with it.

05:56

Renata

And so it's very exciting. We believe that industry is going to be the first to dramatically transform with NFTs quicker than others.

06:11

Nadja

It's definitely a very exciting time, not only to be in Web3, but in all of the other industries that Web3 is touching on. Arvin, what about you? What have you seen over the last few years? You are very closely aligned with NFTs and the evolution of the technology. Would love to get your insights as well on the changes.

06:32

Arvin

07:53

Arvin

And then went to bear markets where no one cared about your ideas anymore. It was all about everyone's going to fail. At least let's invest in people who have good teams and potentially the ones that they are already solving some real big problems, or maybe they have an existing game. And so those were the projects that became really popular. And the shift from investing went from just anything in Web3 to very specific things like maybe just DeFi or maybe just gaming those. And then obviously all these biggest gaming companies, they're coming into their space, gambling platforms. And then now I see just like another panelist mentioned too, just the entertainment, music. We have two projects in our incubator right now that one of them is to do with Hollywood. The other one is one of them is to do with the actual movie from Hollywood.

09:00

Arvin

The other one is a concept artist of a movie that everyone watched in the 90s that he's doing an NFT now that has become a thing.

09:14

Nodo

Right.

09:14

Arvin

So like the entertainment, there's more movement for integrating NFTs into movies, into the people who were involved with the movies and just getting closer to their fans. And then the other thing that's coming through also is Web2 companies now integrating NFTs as a technology without telling people it's an NFT. So that's the direction right now we're heading toward. And it's a lot better, to be honest, it's a lot more exciting than weirdly enough than it was in the Bull Run because it was just all about like, hey, NFTs are so cool now. It's more like, okay, we're using NFTs in ways that's actually really cool.

09:59

Nadja

Yeah, I absolutely agree. It was all good and well to have all of that hype, but it's always fun to grow up as much as it's fun to be young and to be new. But there's a real gift in growing up and maturing and this space is no different. Nodo I'm very curious because you are touching on so many different aspects. Advertising, metaverse, NFTs would love to hear what have you been seeing over the last few years in terms of this evolution?

10:28

Nodo

11:28

Nodo

12:26

Nodo

One example is like event ticketing. We all know how much black market for the event tickets are like crazy. So you never are sure if you are getting correct one or not. And NFT and Blockchain technology helped me solving this very much. And Ticketmaster biggest online ticket selling company is already utilizing NFTs and many others. So yeah, I'm happy. And we've seen NFTs in advertising in many other applications. So that's what makes me happy, right? We are not just saying that it's just JPEGs, but it really has the utility around. So I'm very happy how this direction is going.

13:08

Arvin

14:12

Arvin

It's just like as if it's happening over and over again. Right. So it may just be that we go through another round of maybe not the same narrative as it was before, but still maybe in that same direction of just completely useless things that's just coming out again.

14:35

Nodo

Yeah. People love making fun, right? So like Pepe, NFTs and any others. So people still love to be entertained and we're just going the cycles, right? Like Goblin Town, which has very unique approach and why they got like everybody was talking in the Twitter with their own language, right. So people still love to have fun with NFTs. Very good point, by the way.

14:57

Renata

Yeah, this is Renata Lowenbraun from Infanity. I just wanted to add to that it was novel, right? NFTs were novel. So people were buying whether there was anything of value really attached to it or not, whether the artwork was nice or not, it really didn't matter. And we're coming into a phase now, which is the maturation of any type of technology except that we have art attached to it, that now there has to be value attached to it.

15:25

Nodo

Right.

15:25

Renata

The music has to be good. The benefits you're offering have to be good, the artwork has to be good. I mean, that's natural. And I happen to think that's a very positive thing for the evolution of where NFTs are going.

15:41

Nadja

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I definitely expected after the bear market that we would not have the same hype cycle. But then if you've been in web3 long enough, these cycles repeat themselves over and over again. But I definitely do see that as we move along, the overall space starts maturing and there's amazing inroads being made by very serious company offering really good utility. But I think we'll always have the pepes and the memes and the fun and the coins that make ourselves go like, okay, why does this exist again? But I guess that's part and parcel of this industry. So, Arvin, I want to ask a question to you. You've had an amazing success rate with NFT marketing. So what, in your opinion, makes an NFT campaign successful? And obviously now we are not talking specifically about any type of NFT, but as all of you have been touching on, there's so many different use cases for NFTs.

16:38

Nadja

How do you, as a company utilizing NFTs or as an NFT project itself, how do you ensure that the campaign that you are launching is successful, especially in the web3 bear market that we're in right now? And how does this tie into the wider evolution of web3 as an industry?

16:59

Arvin

Yeah, so obviously, I still like NFTs I mean, everything we do is really Web3 related. So I like NFT so much, so I am launching my own NFTs. It's coming out in two weeks. And when it comes to the marketing of the NFTs, I found that it's changed. Honestly, it changes every two months. So I talk to people that they get advice from me or they just follow my stuff and then every time it's different. Honestly, people ask the same question and then people ask it like, oh, so what's the best way? And every time it's really different. So initially it started at just building these large communities and then about 30% of them would just buy the NFTs. This is back in the bull run. And then it was like discord. So discord was such a big deal and then just evolved significantly from that point on to just change its look, change its taste, I suppose from the beginning, all the way to okay, discord maybe is not as important, maybe Twitter Spaces is important and different platforms replaced by newer, more, maybe more popular ones.

18:29

Arvin

But what's actually working right now? So the point is, there's been a lot of changes, and then what's working right now is projects that so at this very moment, projects that have some sort of okay, so they're either solving real big issues in Web3 where there's something that they've actually done, that when you look at it, you'd be like, okay, that's actually a very cool thing. It's cool value they're adding to the Web3, I guess the latter is more prevalent, is incentivizing people to make money somehow. So, for example, blur. So now Blur is not an NFT, but it's a marketplace. The only reason they took so much share, I guess market share from OpenSea is just because they started Airdropping. People just essentially giving away money to people. And then so the concept of incentivizing people to somehow make money either by just giving it to them or like I give you one interesting, maybe something people haven't noticed.

19:49

Arvin

There is an auction system that you can have for your NFTs where people could come in to bid to buy the NFT. If they win the NFT. If they lose, they earn money. And right there, that's just like a new technology. It's been tested before with Yuga labs and all of a sudden it just incentivize people to come in and actually mint incentivize traffic, so on and so forth. So that's what I mean by when I say new things. That is coming into the Web3, but also incentivizing people to make money. There's another example I can think of, and this is also a use case of NFTs. If you think about gambling platforms, the transparency in there because there's no smart contract used is down to you basically trusting the gambling platform. The payments is to do with you're just relying on good faith that the company will make the payment to you.

21:02

Arvin

So the transparency, security, there's a lot of issues with these online gambling platforms and there's still, by the way, billions of dollars. So all of a sudden there's a collection that they use NFTs to bring the gambling on chain and you need an NFT to actually be able to enter and actually the NFT turns into a token and then token gets circulated inside the actual gambling platforms that comes out. You can obviously receive your money but from a smart contract instead of receiving it from a centralized company. So point is having something of value is really a big deal. And then community on Twitter is very important, community on Discord is not important at the moment. And then, of course, just having your own, let's call it private communities to be able to ask for support during

22:19

Arvin

23:26

Arvin

And these are all just temporary things. These are like at any time you ask me, there's certain things like this that's working and then some other time you ask, it's no longer a thing. But there's always things about the NFT that's changing and people trying out new things and then it's overdone and then doesn't work until something new is discovered and then people can, I guess, utilize that for some time until it's not working ever again. Just summarize it for you. There's the private communities, it could be like alpha groups or it could be your own private communities. It's the actual Twitter growth that the project has not discord and then potentially things like market making or doing things that at that time is hip and then the actual value of the project. So if it's something that people actually care about because no one thinks NFTs are an investment right now, let's put it that way, it's not an investment if you say it on your website.

24:38

Arvin

NFTs are like a great investment if you pitch it that way, no one's believing you. So if you actually show people how they can make money, that's how people would believe you. And then if they did make money with their NFTs down the line, then so be it. That's great, but no one's counting on that.

24:59

Nadja

Advent. Thank you. That was really insightful. And I just love how, as you mentioned, Discord a while ago was all the rage for NFTs and then almost seemingly overnight, discord is dead and we're on to the next thing. So, speaking of which, the whole world of marketing and advertising. So Nodo with Metaviu, you have a foot in Web3, you have a foot in NFTs, the Metaverse. But what does this mean for advertising and for the future of advertising? How does it all tie into I mean, each and every one of us have our own individual idea of what advertising means, but we definitely also know that it's rapidly evolving because we have this ability to tune out any sort of overt advertising that comes our way. So what do you think is the future for advertising within this space and how will this space also influence the larger advertising world out?

25:59

Nodo

So, very interesting question. I started Metaviu like two years ago with the main idea of creating the advertising model. We would love to see not like maximally extracting like we see from Facebook, Google and other traditional web2 advertising channels and give full power to individual people, creators or landowners. So my journey started like when I first entered Metaverse as a landowner, Sandbox, Decentraland and many others, I was not seeing too much of the economic activity and things, right? So I started talking with fellow landowners and created the platform which enabled them to deploy 3D billboards into their properties, put the price they were requiring to get and they were able to get up to 95% of the ad revenue from the advertisers showing on their billboards. This was just a start. I was exploring how market was working in this space and everybody hates advertising, especially gamers and many other people, right?

27:07

Nodo

So we see advertising and something very bad. So my vision was to show people that advertising money can actually bring some cool points and billboard was starting point, right. We transitioned to immersive experiences, which is a very big thing. And as we look at the progress and the brands entering this space through integrating or creating custom experiences, we see a huge boost. In the beginning, we just had only a couple fashion brands like Nike, Adidas, Puma and many others joining this space and testing out, experimenting what they can be doing, right? So we saw that there is a huge economy is coming in through 3D content creators. Like we had digital content creators or streamers on the web2 platforms like Twitter, YouTube, TikTok. We have amazing builders and 3D content creators in this space who are building amazing small gamified experiences on top of the leading Metaverse platforms, both Web3 and Web2.

28:14

Nodo

Right? And then we saw that we need to empower those individual builders, help them out to create the many interesting games about fashion, gambling, mining, dancing clubbing and et cetera. And then helps them to productize those experiences and helps the web2 brands on the other side to involve as a product placements into these gamified experiences as a custom quest providing branded variables using AI NPCs into the gamified experience and actually push the web2 brands to use these immersive experiences to show people additional experiential campaigns. Like in the Web3 space, most of the web2 brands are looking at this now not like transactional marketing campaigns we are used to in the web2 space but more giving people experiences. There is no other platform where users will be spending and playing engaging with your brand more than 1 hour a day if you provide nice quest to them.

29:17

Nodo

And in other platforms in web2 space you just have 2 seconds of the eyeballs, right? And it's so nice like structure that experience builder and creative people are motivated to build nice games, brands can be integrated there seamlessly without spoiling the gaming experience and everybody is rewarded in this case, right? So experience builder is getting compensated for their work and pushing hard and developing new and interesting games and at the same time we have two brands are getting taste what's happening in this space? I started talking about web2 brands but just wanted to showcase that at the end of the day we are now saying web2, web3 but basically at the end of the day everybody will be using these technologies right? But right now we have and there is totally different expectations from advertising from web3 brands and web2 brands, right?

30:14

Nodo

Web3 brands mostly are using this to collect the community, analyze the community traction, provide wisdom, quests and basically at the end of the day it's transactional for web2 brands. Basically they are creating this for loyalty programs and giving users additional experience in the immersive spaces. And with the launch of New we are headsets, especially from Apple and Meta Quest3, we see massive adoption and many people coming into this space, right? So that's our idea to create this 3d content creators economy and enable many amazing individual or company creators to use advertising money to build amazing things and populate Metaverse platforms. And Metaverse platforms won't be seen only as small gaming platforms used by teenagers but actually we are also pushing lots of web2 companies to host borderless conferences gamified experiences in this space right? And many of the web2 companies already are having NFT collections as they are loyalty programs.

31:17

Nodo

We all know Starbucks Odyssey system but there are many other web2 brands who are using this NFTs as their loyalty programs and using advertising and immersive experiences in the Web3 space to reward their users with real products, make them to play in the virtual space and then reward them with real products in real life. So these connections are very exciting. We are pushing this direction very hard. And yeah, so we are trying to make people see advertising. Not a bad thing like we used to do, but a good thing which can actually create very amazing games and populate Metaverse platforms. So yeah, thanks. Sorry for the long talk.

31:57

Nadja

No, absolutely. I think you touched on so many different points that are really so pertinent to this conversation. And Renata, I want to get on to you in the follow up to this question because we have web2 users on the one hand, which as Nodo says, at some point in the future we are not going to differentiate between Web2 and Web3 anymore. It's only going to be users of technology in the same way that previously we spoke about digital marketing and now all marketing in some sense is really digital. So Renata, as someone who focuses specifically on the music industry and of course the fan experience within the music industry, I mean, we talk so much about community in Web3. I would love to know if we take everything, especially what Nodo was touching on in terms of this evolution of right now, the different use cases for Web2 in Web3.

32:51

Nadja

I mean, web2 users with Web3 technologies might be different from Web3 natives. What are you seeing in the music industry in terms of the adoption? Who are the people who are most curious or most interested or most involved with the Web3 technologies in the music space? Is it Web2 users coming into Web3? Or is it more Web3 natives?

33:15

Renata

Well, let me touch a little bit even on what some of our speakers have already been speaking about, right? Web3 and NFTs, it's a new technology soon, right? We're not going to be talking about the technology. We don't care about it. We care about the experiences and the products that are coming out of it. For Infanity, we have web2 people involved in it. A lot of celebrities who really want to go into Web3. For instance, on our board of Advisors, we have a very well-known artist and producer, havoc from Mobb Deep, which is one of rap music's longest standing rap duos coming out of Queensbridge multiplatinum and Havoc as they produced for fifty cents and a whole load of people like that. We also have Lord Finesse, who's been around for a long time, was part of originally digging in the crates with Fat Joe, if anybody knows who they are.

34:11

Renata

35:20

Renata

And we're working with brand new artists to be able to provide marketing and promotion support and help them mint on our platform so that they don't even have to go and look at streaming and try to build themselves in their community that way. So it's interesting to hear our other speakers talk about they work with Web2 brands. We do too, in a very different way. And in fact, we actually have a strategic partner, the Height magazine, who's been a media brand in urban music for 21 years, extremely successful, and they too are excited about Web3 and felt that we would be a great partner to help build that and help educate people. So we've noticed actually that a lot of folks who were interested, certainly Infanity NFTs, were traditionally sort of, again from the old school, right, where if you were looking at alpha groups and for investment purposes.

36:16

Renata

But really the future of music, NFTs is really about collectibles, it's about fans, it's about people who love music and the people associated with it in its own right. It's not about buying music because you think it might become valuable, although that is a component of it. It's more so buying music so you can prove that you were an early supporter of a new artist or a new piece of music from an established artist when it hadn't yet become popular. So that's really the value. And we're finding that there is still an education process to teach people about what these possibilities are. If you're interested in selling music or video with your music attached or anything, or if you're interested in it as a fan in what it can offer you, I hope that answers your question.

37:13

Nadja

Yeah, absolutely. I love just listening to each and every one of you from your respective fields of expertise because the similarities and your answers are simultaneously so apparent. What really stands out for me is the utility. First of all the community and then, of course, the fact that we are not here for the short term, which, as were talking about earlier, if you look at only the Meme coins and the NFT projects that are only quickly here in one day, out the other day. But clearly the future is so much more holistic than just these sort of media attention projects and utilities that we've been seeing over the last few years. So Arvin, you have worked on a number of different NFT campaigns, in fact in the hundreds at this point. So can you share with us perhaps it was more in the Bull run in which case obviously the terms and conditions have changed in terms of what makes a campaign successful or maybe it's something that you've seen more recently.

38:22

Nadja

Could you share an example of an NFT campaign? And again, really the utility of the NFT could be anything. It might be a PFP, it might be an art project, it might be a company utilizing NFTs that exceeded expectations and some learnings from campaigns like these.

38:41

Arvin

So the question is what kind of utility that they've actually been delivering? So they promise and they've been delivering. Is that what the question?

38:49

Nadja

Yeah. So maybe speak about a campaign that kind of exceeded people's expectations and perhaps this is because of the utility or perhaps it might be other factors, some learnings for the audience in terms of a successful NFT campaign.

39:05

Arvin

So a campaign that has been successful because of it exceeded the people's expectation for the utility. Honestly, utility is as much as it's very important other than games that people actually get to play. All the other utilities usually a promise. So unfortunately most of these promises haven't been delivered yet. People are still waiting. I guess there are numerous utilities like people get let's say, a percentage of the total sales of the NFTs or maybe there's a platform and then they get a share of that platform. I can think of quite a few and the challenge with those is that the amount of money that people make is not actually that much. So during the Bull Run it just all seemed like a lot more glorious than it turned out in the actual bear market. So honestly, I would say I actually go as far as saying I don't think any project out there they did exceed their community's expectation.

40:48

Arvin

On the utility side of things, I think there's certainly right now I do know actually projects that they have great utilities. There is one, the one that actually I was mentioning earlier on it's more like a Gamified DeFi where you do gambling on chain, I would say. And the only reason I say that is because the platform is already live and people are actually doing they've done 800,000 in transaction and people are very happy. I would say that's the and I can't think of one more given all these hundreds of projects that I've seen, I cannot think of one more. And this project sold out the first round. They raised a million dollars and users, they've done transaction, everything is fully functional, everything is working. I love it to be honest, I'm biased in the sense that I'm an investor of it too. But that's literally the only project I would say.

42:02

Arvin

And then I would also say all the other ones if anything. Not only that they didn't see this expectation, I would say even and I've been an investor on other ones as well. I'm not saying just because this is the only one, I've been an investor but other ones, all the ones I know, if anything they've been more of a disappointment side for the community at least on now it may shift in the bull run but I kept all the NFTs, I bought all these NFTs even for Gary Vee. I kept that NFT that I bought for $20,000 that now is worth maybe $2,000. It's fine, it's just part of the game. I would say that one project that I mentioned is exceeded expectation for ourselves and also for the community. This is just like objectively as well. And then I would say all the other ones that I've seen personally, I would say they have not exceeded expectation.

43:12

Arvin

In fact, if anything, they've maybe just hit what people were expecting or if not lower. That's what I would say. And by the way, I'm reporting on reality. I don't want to tell people about all these things that doesn't exist and then just be like hey people, everyone feel good about things but I tell the truth. That's what it is.

43:36

Nadja

Yeah, I mean I think that is really the key here is to simultaneously be excited about what's coming and work towards, build towards what you want to see, but at the same time be realistic about the actual challenges currently in the space. So Nodo, I would love to hear your thoughts on this as well. Obviously we are moving now from an industry where so much of the focus has been on the returns and we definitely shifting ever closer towards a mindset where, yes, it's not only about the gains that you're making but it's also about the real life utility and the everyday utility. Because on the one hand, we have these projects where especially we've seen this in the Metaverse. You show up, you look around, there's not much to do, you leave and you never go back. So what are your thoughts on moving us from where we are coming from?

44:31

Nadja

Where it's a lot of hype, but it's a lot of sort of hot wind and not much reality to it, as Arvin was saying, to a future where it's more integrated, where, as you said earlier, it's not going to be a web2, web3 differentiation. It's just going to be the future of technology. So how do we get there?

44:50

Nodo

Yeah, very interesting question because even like when I was talking during the bull run, to many people, everybody is expecting jumping in this space, getting rich the second day. So this kind of like thing is wiped out during the bear markets. That's why I love that mostly builders are staying in this space and it becomes more fun. But on the adoption side, even the metaverse is very hyped, right? And everybody talks about. I most of the time with web2 brands, even not using the term metaverse, and I'm using virtual world, and most of the times not using terminology web3 because it kind of frightens people and especially lots of people have watched the movies, how Metaverse is taking on and we're going to be living with our headsets on, not enjoying the real life. I'm telling everybody even though I spend lots of time exploring this space virtual worlds, I love the physical life and it's interchangeable, right?

45:49

Nodo

46:54

Nodo

So right now in the metaverse space before there was nothing to do, ger was just like play to earn games and there was nothing to do. Like if you go to the Decentron, most of the times it's empty, right? So now it's starting more and more events are happening in even like at the end of the August we are bringing Futurist conference in Decentron which is the Canada's largest Web3 conference, then NFT Paris and many others. So basically my main goal is to showcase people that Metaverse is not something evil but it can be used for very nice applications, even for web2 brands. Web3 brands and especially not only for gamers, just usual busy people who can be logging in, engaging with other peers, doing the networking. And I had the cases to organize investment sessions into the spatial and HyperFi and Decentraland inviting angel investors around Europe and web3 startups because investors are afraid of the web3 startups.

47:52

Nodo

As you know, many shifted into AI last couple of months and even if you scroll down to the LinkedIn, it's very funny, lots of people were having in their LinkedIn page web3 experts and everybody turned out AI experts. That's very funny how industry is shifting and many web3 startups integrated AI. And I always pushing that AI. And Web3 is interchangeable. AI just will fasten the adoption of the Web3 and overall virtual worlds. Right. Because through the advanced technologies of generative AI and creating 3D objects through just text input, eliminating manual work of 3D creators, which was very like 3D designers, which was very costly, it will boost many people to jump into this space. Right? So basically, yeah, we need everybody to jump in and create very nice use cases for the space to get massively adapted. And I see the shift.

48:50

Nodo

So many web2 brands even integrate virtual spaces into their web pages already. Right. So we are going there. It's inevitable, especially with AR XR and many other technologies happening in more and more virtual and real world will be interconnected. And yeah, that's my intake. I can talk forever about this topic, but I know we are limited in time and other speakers have to put their ideas too. So yeah, happy to see what others are thinking.

49:21

Nadja

Do you have something to add?

49:23

Arvin

Yeah, first of all, it's really funny you say about the AI thing. I was literally last night looking at some influencer that was really big in Web3. And then his bio is just all about AIS. And I was like, wow, that changed so quickly.

49:41

Nodo

Couple seconds.

49:44

Arvin

Yeah, that's actually hilarious. Okay, so I know even family offices during the time, they never cared about NFTs, they cared about Metaverse. And there were VCs that cared about Metaverse. And then of course Meta, formerly Facebook, they invested on that. So many companies invest in personally, you know, bought a lot of Sandbox, to be honest. And still there, still hanging in there. The value is like peanuts. Now you're in the metaverse. That's your focus. Is there even one Metaverse that's actually being used right now with users at this point? This is still something to look forward to.

50:47

Nodo

Yeah, very quickly going to answer this because I spent meeting lots of Metaverse founders. Most of them were not launched. Right. So this is also another funny case. We say in the Web3 space, especially in the Metaverse is we just do announcements to announce another announcement in the discord. Right. So people are waiting for even in the Sandbox case, right when I bought the land, sandbox was launching couple experiences at the time. Finally, at the end of the year, all the landowners will be able to publish their lands and invite other people. Right. But if we look at the web3 Metaverse platforms, we don't see huge traffic. Most of the traffic is happening still in Roblox and Fortnite, which is very web2 Metaverse platforms. Because right now, major problem is that not any Metaverse platform in the Web3 space can support more than 100 people in one servers.

51:40

Nodo

52:40

Nodo

Very interesting question by the way. That's why I'm always going around and saying we need better platforms to get the massive adoption because with the current ones it's just not very much there. We need to be.

52:55

Nadja

Yeah, thanks Nodo. Renata, I want to ask you because Nodo touched earlier on the fact that they are not often using the Web3 terminology. So I want to hear from you. Working with artists, as you said earlier, lots of them have been established in the music industry for years. So in the conversations that you are having with them at Infinity, how often do you find yourself referring to Web3 technology as opposed to the Reddit and the Starbucks route where you don't refer to it as NFTs, et cetera, but really just digital collectibles or whatever the case may be. What is your approach at Infanity? In really? Just onboarding people without overwhelming them, using all of these technologies that we love to use the buzzwords around but that actually nobody understands what they are.

53:46

Renata

Yes, you know what, you've answered the question by asking it. At Infanity we try very hard to not use the buzzwords because they don't mean anything to anyone. As far as I'm concerned, they don't mean anything even to people in Web3 because a lot of these terms just mean different things to different people anyway. And I think to some extent it's also a little pretentious. So we try to just explain things in very basic ways. Right? So for an NFT it's really just a way of delivering music and video if you want, or pictures, but delivering music and experiencing the music in different ways and proving things about when you bought that music, that makes it different. That's a very simple way of explaining what an NFT can do without getting fancy or intimidating anyone for that matter, let alone an established artist who desperately wants to learn because they know there's something there and they want to be involved in it.

54:53

Nadja

Yeah, I mean, I love what you said about the terminology. Probably doesn't mean much even to people in web3 because we all have our own interpretations and understandings of these things. And I definitely foresee a future where we are going to stop using the buzzwords and really just as technology continues to evolve and the internet continues to evolve, that we are just going to see it as part and parcel of the experience of being online. So I see that we've come to the end of the hour. I'm not sure we're going to have any time for questions today since we have so many speakers. So just to wrap things up, guys, would love for each and every one of you who's on the panel to just share one piece of advice or a key takeaway that you'd like our audience to remember from the very interesting and stimulating discussion today.

55:40

Nadja

Arvin, maybe we can start with you.

55:42

Nodo

All right, good.

55:44

Arvin

Yeah, I would say there is ample opportunity for people right now to learn about things because when the bull run comes there is going to be opportunity for generational wealth. I speak from experience too, so there is a lot of reasons right now to even be testing, like just maybe even buying some coins. See what does it mean when a market cap goes up, down maybe buying some NFTs, understanding what communities are like? This is for newbies, right? But even for people who are maybe more advanced, then just learning new things as they're coming out because there's going to be a time when it's going to be very useful and the time is coming very soon.

56:40

Nadja

Renata, what about you? What are your key takeaways from today's discussion that you'd like to leave our audience with?

56:49

Renata

57:57

Renata

So all of us is just keep on plugging away and don't be intimidated.

58:04

Nadja

Yeah, guys, so many amazing takeaways so far. Nodo, last but not least, what are your thoughts on what we should be taking away from this hour?

58:13

Nodo

So first of all, I agree that learning is amazing thing and don't get stressed if there is lots of information flowing in this space is changing every day. As I mentioned, Web3 experts becoming AI experts. Some people are talking about Tokens next day, about Metaverse. And be ready that everything is changing on daily basis. And for builders, I was building startups almost twelve years in real life and it's nothing compared building in web3. You should be 24/7 online right away. You have the global outreach all time zones, like working in web3 for three. As I already, I'm becoming like digital transformer of the time zones and it's most like kind of exhausting and fun at the same time. And if you are building business on that one, your community is more demanding than you used to in the real space if you operated business there.

59:10

Nodo

And for the beginners, if you like, for example, metaverse platforms, just jump in a couple of them and experience before buying the land or doing something. Same case with NFTs or Tokens, right? Just join the discord community. People see the culture, what they are talking about, and just buy something small and stay on top of the curve. And then you will understand which direction of the Webster space is interesting for you. And then you will push this direction because reading every information, every news, it will exhaust you and then you won't have any time actually to work. So just push hard. Things are changing every day in this space. Be prepared. It's exhausting, but it's fun at the same time. Be ready for changes.

59:51

Nadja

Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Amazing insights, guys. If I can take three takeaways. From what our speakers have said, the bear market is all about education. Because once the bull gets started, no one has any time to sleep, let alone learn. So really now is the time. Don't worry about the gains, worry about the learnings, because that's the larger gains that you can make. And then, as everyone has said, learn by doing. There's one way to learn when you're reading things as if it's a textbook, watching YouTube videos, learning about other people doing things, but it's so different when you're doing it yourself. You're experiencing these things because you understand the opportunities and you also understand the limitations which could lead to opportunities. And then of course, yeah, change is the only constant. This is probably the most exciting industry to be in technology as a whole.

Nadja

And then of course, whether it's web3 or whether it's AI or whatever the flavor of the day is, there's a lot of changes happening. And the only way really to stay updated is not to be able to consume everything all at once, but really just get involved, get your hands dirty, understand what is for you. Because not everything in web3 or in technology in general is for all of us. We all have our own interests, our own experiences, our own things that we want to pursue in future. So, yeah, the only way, really, to learn is to get involved. So speakers, Arvin, Nodo, Renata, thank you so much for all of the amazing insights. I think that anyone joining in is definitely going to walk away with a number of different insights that can apply to them and their lives and their interests in the space.

Nadja

As for where everyone can stay updated with you guys, Arvin, where is the best place for the audience to follow you and to follow Sold Out NFTs?

Arvin

Yes. So obviously, following this page @Soldoutsecrets, and then also ArvinKnft on Telegram or on Twitter, those are the best places.

Nadja

Renata, what about you? Where can the audience best follow you? And Infanity as well, you can follow.

Renata

Us at Infinity on Twitter, our website infanityxyz. We have all of our social media in the bottom. Where? Wherever, actually. Instagram. Facebook. Yeah. Anywhere.

Nadja

Nodo, where shall we follow you and what you guys are doing at Metaviu?

Nodo

Yeah, so you can follow us at Metaviu. At Twitter, you can follow me and my DMs are open and ask me any advice. I'm advising many beginners in this space. That's what I do on my free time and also, like, on LinkedIn and any other social media channel. But Twitter I'm using very actively. So also LinkedIn, because I'm working with Web2 brands. So, yeah, just follow me and write me if you have any questions.

Nadja

All right. With that, we've come to another amazing hour and to the audience, whether you're tuning in live or I know so many of you are listening to this, either on the recording, on Twitter afterwards, or also on Spotify or any of the other podcasting platforms. Thank you once again for tuning in with us and definitely thank you for being here during this market to educate yourself when so many people are kind of hibernating and waiting for the bull run to return. And I will catch you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs, brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers, guys. Have a lovely day. Speak to you soon. And do make sure to follow all of the speakers and what they are building. They are all, as you've heard over the last hour, working on absolutely amazing products that is going to redefine the future of technology and all of the different industries that they're involved with.