Shownotes
- How every society is built around the same 7 foundational “pillars”
- Why God placed you (and your church) within specific parts of culture
- How disciple-making fits naturally into every one of the 7 Pillars
- Why relational trust—not structure—is the key to cultural engagement
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
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Transcripts
One of the coolest things we ever got to do is when we bought Chaka Bra.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That cafe that we ran Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We ran for years and years, is we, we got to hire back all the staff.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:That had just lost their job and they were like, oh my gosh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then as, as Tina just, just worked her tail off and built that thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We ended up with about three times the amount of employees.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because it, it grew.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that was our family.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we saw it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those were our family.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, a lot of people made more, a lot more money than Tina Aber made, you know, running a restaurant as the owner.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because her mindset is a Disciple of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:We exist blessed to be a blessing, so.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did we eat there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did Tina take a salary?
Caesar Kalinowski:Of course she did.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we saw that as what a way to bless the city.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you've ever eaten a Chacha bra, it is a blessing.
Caesar Kalinowski:It is a blessing.
Caesar Kalinowski:To see how do we change culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not by shouting at the darkness.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not being a hater.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not like blowing up Facebook with everything you're anti against or what you're for, and everybody else should be.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's about making disciples first, being one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And making disciples with.
Caesar Kalinowski:In the culture within the pillar that God's already divinely, sovereignly placed each of us.
Heath Hollensbe:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated.
Heath Hollensbe:Faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hello Heath.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's going on here?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is this fine?
Caesar Kalinowski:Autumn, I guess Day here.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're newly autumn.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Doing great, man.
Heath Hollensbe:Excited about today's episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:Super good episode.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've had a, I've had a crazy busy week.
Caesar Kalinowski:How about yourself?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, super busy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not even Easter man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you're not Christmas or Easter.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're still busy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like nothing is going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you looking forward to all those big holidays coming up?
Caesar Kalinowski:Big big ranch there you're working at?
Caesar Kalinowski:Not really.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a lot of, it
Caesar Kalinowski:just means more work.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:But
Caesar Kalinowski:uh, gosh, man, I've been super busy this week as well, but I've also had some really good family time and time with my grandson and it was great growing up.
Caesar Kalinowski:FaceTiming with him today, he's like, it's so amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Completely technology.
Caesar Kalinowski:Good, normal.
Caesar Kalinowski:So funny.
Caesar Kalinowski:The times are changing.
Caesar Kalinowski:They say times are, are just amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:We live in the best time ever.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think so
Heath Hollensbe:I do.
Heath Hollensbe:We we live in a great time, man.
Heath Hollensbe:And today we're actually gonna talk about culture and how it culture woven together and some pretty, you know what's cool
Caesar Kalinowski:about the word culture within Christianity?
Caesar Kalinowski:Huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:Is we always, we always described the culture and, and in our minds it's out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You like what's going on in the culture today?
Caesar Kalinowski:We never include ourselves in it, you know, emotionally, you know, I never, like, today we're gonna talk about how do you change.
Caesar Kalinowski:Culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause they need that, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's always that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we talk about this today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's remember we are.
Caesar Kalinowski:Culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:We are part of the culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not talking about Christianity as its subculture that it is, but we're also a part of, you know, the city you live in and you know, the whole culture.
Heath Hollensbe:Dude, that actually reminds me of, uh, a couple weeks ago we talked about happiness with David McDonald.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, so good.
Heath Hollensbe:My mentor, my professor, and he actually just the other day in a forum for my school, uh, wrote this.
Heath Hollensbe:This little paragraph on Christianity culture, and he said it's an old conversation, but it's a good one.
Heath Hollensbe:I tend to think of culture as the sea we live in.
Heath Hollensbe:Fish don't notice the sea, nor can they escape it.
Heath Hollensbe:Clearly Christians are meant to live in the sea in the world, but unlike fish, we must be able to differentiate ourselves from it.
Heath Hollensbe:Hence, we're more like dolphins or whales we're in the sea, but ultimately derive our oxygen from the world above.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow, isn't that crazy?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, that's pretty crazy.
Heath Hollensbe:You think of like,
Caesar Kalinowski:culture is out there and so we're gonna talk about culture today and, and there's, you know, this isn't brand new thought.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, I didn't, we didn't dream this stuff up, but, but all sort of cities and cultures are woven together with some pretty fundamental pillars, pretty fundamental segments of culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, a lot of really smart sociologists and historians and all have looked at this stuff and written deeply on it and informed some of our talk today.
Caesar Kalinowski:They've identified seven pillars that all, all society and culture are built upon.
Caesar Kalinowski:And why I think this is important for us and why we wanted to talk about it to Daniel is Jesus helped us clarify the purpose of the gospel when he gave us the mission in Matthew 28 of go make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that the whole world would be filled with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go make disciples everywhere 'cause Jesus is the glory of God.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as we make disciples who make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:The world is full of his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the world, if it's, if all these cities and all these cultures are made up of these seven pillars, they give us a really effective way of sort of looking at, you know, how do we engage?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:When we talk about engaging culture, can you really engage the culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:For me, when I first heard these seven pillars and we began to put sort of a gospel intentionality onto it, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just saw them as like, here are seven doorways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Straight into how you or me, or anybody listening might have just a very natural sort of on-ramp into how, part of how they'll make disciples and where and with who and a very natural fit.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And I love when you say fill the world with his glory.
Heath Hollensbe:Another way for people who don't know really what glory means, it's to fill the world.
Heath Hollensbe:God is like, and so these are the seven avenues in, in, in a secular culture where we can actually
Caesar Kalinowski:show the world what God is like.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, and they all exist everywhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:So it's, we're not talking anybody into this or asking 'em to swim in different lanes.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll, you'll see goal from, real quick here, here's the seven pillars and, uh, we'll, we'll sort of, we'll chat through them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go through the seven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the seven.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't think there's any order to them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe there is, there's probably some people talking about how they're built upon each other, but, okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Family, there's media and the arts.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's business, sort of the whole business and trade.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Education.
Caesar Kalinowski:Massive.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Educational system.
Caesar Kalinowski:Healthcare,
Heath Hollensbe:huh?
Caesar Kalinowski:Government.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then there's religion and that's generally grouped together with service-based organizations.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how, that's how the sociologists look at it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's, I think that's a pretty fair fit because at least for most of history.
Caesar Kalinowski:Religion was the service-based organization.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was the church served everybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And now we've got a lot of nonprofits and a lot of other things, but culturally those are together.
Caesar Kalinowski:So family, media, in the arts, business, education, healthcare, government, and then religion.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And it's interesting that only one of those seven pillars actually includes religion, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not all the pillars of culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a pillar of culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, um, all of these seven, did they exist like when Jesus was walking on the planet?
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm, I think so.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we said, well, they, there wasn't media in the arts.
Caesar Kalinowski:They, they had their arts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, for sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:They didn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:And media wasn't TV and electronic.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if guys were writing on scrolls and carrying 'em around or putting 'em up on walls.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:For people to read outside the temple or you know, in Rome somewhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:Coliseum, that's media back then.
Caesar Kalinowski:Paintings, plays, there was news, all that stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:So media education, new, none of this is new.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, this has been around as long as Culture Society has been around.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So this makes a lot of sense to me and it seems like it's not only true, but probably makes sense to.
Heath Hollensbe:Obvious sense to other folks listening, but when I think of engaging the culture, my mind naturally runs to this like social reform or helping the homeless or maybe even Christians hanging out with, you know, quote unquote sinners.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh,
Caesar Kalinowski:do you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and I'm the same way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like when I think, you know, engaging the culture, it's all that stuff you just listed.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but people, all humans, we all live and work and are gifted and engaged in culture in one of these seven pillars, minimally.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so it gives us, as missionaries, that's part of our identity.
Caesar Kalinowski:It gives us, as God's missionary family, a way to engage people in ways that are meaningful to them.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:See what I'm saying?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like for so long, our whole approach to engaging the culture was to just.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sort of shout at it from afar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:What was wrong with it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, who's the guy who, I think it might be from the book Roaring Lambs.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like we can either light a light or curse the darkness.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Rob, Brian.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so true.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what if, what if you could enter into a lane, a pillar of culture that's important to someone and join them in that?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then begin to make disciples within that lane.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Within that pillar.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, and that's key.
Caesar Kalinowski:Instead of trying to get them and pull them outta culture, why don't we just enter into that culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:We already live there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So most everybody has a family, so that's why I say one or more.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But some people are involved in business.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some people are involved in educational system.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some people work in healthcare.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, I'm not saying every job would fall in one of these.
Caesar Kalinowski:But every job segment would fall into one of these seven pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know sectors, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so this gives us a way to kinda look at things and not be paralyzed by the culture needs changing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:How are you gonna change your culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, you're gonna change it a person at a time by making disciples to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, who?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I don't know which of these seven pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really stand out to you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So like, I've been a businessman my whole, you know, adult life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've been in ministry since, well, my whole life too, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but it, but I, I, I see business as just part of my life, but it's a very big pillar.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's one of the seven pillars of culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so for me to engage business people at a business level Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And be involved in like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Downtown committee and the revitalization of my downtown, or being a chamber of commerce or be involved in a business association, that is, that's one of the pillars that I can enter right into and it's easy and people are leaning into relationship with me and we all have a common goal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have some, some stuff going on, so there's this huge like, wow, they're super interested in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:So am I. Low hanging fruit relationally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as we'll see here in a minute, we're gonna talk through this.
Caesar Kalinowski:If I could start to make disciples who make disciples out of, you know, business owners, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's gonna change some things in our city that's gonna start to change the culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we will kinda look at that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But for me, you know, it'd be harder government.
Caesar Kalinowski:See, 'cause I, I'm not a politician.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't work for the city.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't work in any layer of government.
Caesar Kalinowski:So for me to say like, well, I'm gonna make disciples of.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know Supreme Court does it?
Caesar Kalinowski:Justices?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Probably not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Leave that to little c. Yeah, I'll leave that to my son.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, so I think this will become more clear as we go, but uh, like right now, just as people think through those seven pillars, think about which of those are you sort of naturally already engaged in.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're actually either passively or actively creating culture within that pillar already.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So I know this is a new way of thinking for many.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm, I'm 33 and I've been raised in this church world that says.
Heath Hollensbe:Hey, you don't go engage culture.
Heath Hollensbe:You bring people to us and we'll put on the events.
Heath Hollensbe:And so I just recently heard from Leonard Sweet that up until the early 19 hundreds, even in America, the greatest art dealers in towns were the pastors.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, they had the best collections of art and that's how they made half their salaries was they were art people.
Heath Hollensbe:Wow.
Heath Hollensbe:That's cool.
Heath Hollensbe:Which is really cool.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm like, man, why don't we have the arts?
Heath Hollensbe:So living in the, looking at the future where.
Heath Hollensbe:This post-Christian culture, especially in the Northwest, is, this is actually exciting to me 'cause it gives us an ability to go serve our culture in a better way.
Heath Hollensbe:But I'm sure for many it's very different than than the programmatic approach of doing church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, so let's just kind of brainstorm conversation back and forth.
Caesar Kalinowski:Looking at the, you know, just a handful of these seven pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And what it would look like if more and more disciples were being made within each of these, because we wanna talk about how does God.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, fill the world with his glory through people.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And how, how people all live within these pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:So let's just try it out.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, what is, what is the focus of media and the arts these days, like today?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's no disciples involved in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what's its focus on what's it about?
Caesar Kalinowski:What's it proclaiming?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, what's the message that a lot of media in the art has if there's no disciples of Jesus involved?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's all about you.
Heath Hollensbe:It's what you're lacking.
Heath Hollensbe:It's what you don't have.
Heath Hollensbe:It's what you could have.
Heath Hollensbe:It's what Too fat you need.
Heath Hollensbe:Have too fat, not rich
Caesar Kalinowski:enough, not tall enough.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's smart enough.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's what we're looking at.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's pretty much all advertising driven, which means it's product based, so it's.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just designed to promote your lack.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Designing.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:exactly What, but, but imagine like, what if, what if there was more and more disciples of Jesus people really understood the kingdom and lived the kingdom life and made disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:What if there was more and more disciples working within media in the arts?
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about what, what, what if Fallon a Lady G and Oprah and Spielberg were all disciples, or even in proximity to disciples?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, initially my mind goes to some of these news networks and the way they just.
Heath Hollensbe:Pin people against each other to, to fight for their positions.
Heath Hollensbe:And I go, maybe we'd actually serve one another better.
Heath Hollensbe:Maybe we'd love one another.
Heath Hollensbe:Maybe we'd see more store one another, more of the
Caesar Kalinowski:good news that's going on mostly, you know, going on in the world instead of the focus.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was telling Tina this last, like this morning, I think I'm, I'm so close to just going news fast, I can't take it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so bad.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so hateful all the time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now how, how important do you think media and the arts are at shaping like worldview right now of people, like let's just say teenagers.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, it's mostly what they, I mean, what the average American's watching four hours of news a day or TV a day.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:You can't tell me that's not massively affecting.
Caesar Kalinowski:I I, is there anything more, do you think, uh, influential on worldview and how the world works and what I think of the world and myself than media?
Heath Hollensbe:Nope.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think there is.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So would it be a worthwhile endeavor for the church to say, we're gonna make disciples who make disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:Specifically we're going after media in the arts.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:that'd be cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, we're gonna do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna, we're gonna fund and train and support and pray up and support missionaries.
Caesar Kalinowski:Disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Within media in the arts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cool man.
Caesar Kalinowski:What if they did for 30 years?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like some churches like will say like, Hey, we're picking a city.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going deep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, or a country, you know, like, we're going to Haiti and we're just gonna like for 30 years, man, we're gonna make a difference.
Caesar Kalinowski:What if, what if a, what if a group of churches said, you know what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Media in the arts, that's our jam we're going after.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think that would begin to have an effect on culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:That'd be a tipping point
Heath Hollensbe:eventually.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's do another one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Of the pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:What about the, uh, educational system?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what is, what is the focus of the educational system?
Caesar Kalinowski:What does it look like when there's no disciples of Jesus involved?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:it's, uh, get a better education so you can get a better job so you can bargain a better salary.
Heath Hollensbe:So you can have a, ultimately a bigger house one day and more titles behind your name.
Heath Hollensbe:It's.
Heath Hollensbe:Self-serving at, at its core.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Get, get as much as you can, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's all due to be like crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, if you do this then you, you know, you'll be this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you do this, you get there.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can remember friends back in, uh, in New York and this was really magnified there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, like throwing up literally almost over their child.
Caesar Kalinowski:Not maybe gonna get into the right preschool.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if they don't get into the right preschool, they won't get the first, you know, the right elementary school, which means they'll never queue up for the right middle school.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, they had it all pressure on a 3-year-old.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my God.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then literally they're throwing up over it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, we might have to move, we might, I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it was just crazy.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's amazing.
Caesar Kalinowski:But, but, but what if, what if education was full of disciples who made disciples, and what if, what if students were taught your education's not just.
Caesar Kalinowski:A way to make a living.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm. Your education is so that out of the overflow of that gift that you've been given, you can be a blessing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:To others, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's a school here in Tacoma, Washington called Soda School of the Arts, SOTA, soda, and it's a performing arts school.
Caesar Kalinowski:You go three years, so you go from your sophomore year through your senior year.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is so cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:So people are dancers.
Caesar Kalinowski:People are like artists.
Caesar Kalinowski:People are Gerard painters, writers, set builders, video musicians, singers, dancers, all of it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:They got that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But they also do all the academics too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Here's what's so cool about soda.
Caesar Kalinowski:The whole time you're there, you're working towards a senior project.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:Three years, you work on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your senior project, your senior project, whatever it is, within your discipline of dance or media or whatever it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:Has to be a benefit to the city of Tacoma.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you perform it or you install it, you show it you, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it has to be a benefit to the city.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the whole time they're doing their education for the three years, they're thinking about, oh, my senior project and I have to do it to graduate.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this education is so I can be a blessing to my city.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think about the difference that would be if, if, if part of your education was like, no, no, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've been given all these gifts and smarts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Blessed to be a blessing.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not, it's a whole different way of doing that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's talking about educators and the educ educate and, and people like with curriculum and the people who set budgets and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not talking about all, all the schools to become Christian schools.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just saying.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what if there was more, you wanna change culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:What if the educational system began to tip, and it wasn't all about me and what I got out of it, but it, and by the way, it used to not be sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wouldn't that change culture?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, so are you an educator out there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are you a teacher?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you write curriculum?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you write books for schools?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you help set budgets?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you sit on school boards?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:You have the ability, if you make disciples who make disciples to start to change the culture of education, which.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my goodness.
Caesar Kalinowski:We changed the culture of our cities.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Country.
Heath Hollensbe:It's a whole different approach than the escapism model of that.
Heath Hollensbe:We're not gonna send people there, we're gonna start our own thing and, and circle the wagons.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:As soon as we pull out something, we say the gospel can't redeem it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so then we have to do our own version of it so it can be nice and neat and clean.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That is not why Jesus came.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like he incarnated, that's like de carnation.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a friend of mine just gave me that term, isn't it?
Caesar Kalinowski:It's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like de carnation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's do another pillar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, imagine, uh, say business.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:What's the focus of business and businesses?
Caesar Kalinowski:If, if there's not deci, there's no disciples that Jesus involved in,
Heath Hollensbe:man.
Heath Hollensbe:It's, it's grow more so you can make more money.
Heath Hollensbe:So you can have a bigger house and you can have more toys and you can, for who?
Heath Hollensbe:For yourself.
Heath Hollensbe:For the
Caesar Kalinowski:owners,
Heath Hollensbe:right?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:For the owners.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, for
Caesar Kalinowski:the shareholder or for the owners.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maximize what you can get out of, you know, each employee outta your time.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe pay them less, a little less benefit, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not saying everybody's that way, but generally by and large.
Caesar Kalinowski:By and large.
Caesar Kalinowski:True.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, that's why people are so anti-corporate and all that stuff, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what if, what if more and more businesses were run by people who were disciples of Jesus and they, they knew how to make disciples within business, so they saw their employees as family.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski:and they saw the profit that they made as something that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Is a blessing to them, but it is a blessing to be able to be, you know, like, Hey, I'm gonna help educate my employees.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna help them educate their families.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna make sure they have better healthcare.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, no one's gonna mandate it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm just gonna do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because that's how I see businesses.
Caesar Kalinowski:It exists to provide these jobs.
Caesar Kalinowski:One of the coolest things we ever got to do is when, you know, like eight, nine years ago now, when we, when we bought Chaka Bra Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That cafe that we ran.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:We just sold, but we, we ran for years and years is we, we got to hire back all the staff.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so cool.
Caesar Kalinowski:They had just lost their job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they were like, oh my gosh.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then as, as Tina just, just worked her tail off and built that thing, we ended up with about three times the amount of employees.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because it, it grew.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that was our family.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we saw it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Those were our family.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot of people made more, a lot more money than Tina ever made, you know, running a restaurant as the owner.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because her mindset is a Disciple of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:We exist blessed to be a blessing, so, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Did we eat there?
Caesar Kalinowski:Did Tina take a salary?
Caesar Kalinowski:Of course she did.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we saw that as what a way to bless the city.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if you've ever eaten a Chacha bra, it is, it is a blessing.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I hope, I mean, we're not gonna go through all of these, but you know, you think about if God's eternal plan was to fill the world with his glory.
Heath Hollensbe:Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And Jesus is the glory of the Father.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then, then making.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's why Jesus said, go make disciples and make disciples and fill every area.
Caesar Kalinowski:How do families get restored?
Caesar Kalinowski:A person at a time as people become disciples of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then their lives are restored and their families are restored.
Caesar Kalinowski:And as families are restored, so are neighborhoods and so are cities.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And these seven pillars give us a lens into something we're already probably engaged in deeply just because of the rhythms of our life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:To see how do we change culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not by shouting at the darkness.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not being a hater.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not like blowing up Facebook with everything you're anti against or what you're for.
Caesar Kalinowski:And everybody else should be.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's about making disciples first, being one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And making disciples within the culture, within the pillar that God's already divinely, sovereignly placed each of us.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's, to me, that's so powerful.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause when I look at the macro, like our culture's going to hell in a hand basket, you know, like we have to fix the culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, how, how.
Caesar Kalinowski:But if I think, well, you know, as a business owner, I'm gonna go after their, uh, and we remember we said religion and service-based organizations was one of the pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Won't it be awesome when there's a lot more disciples being made within the church?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't say that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't say that sarcastically.
Caesar Kalinowski:Think we forgot how to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, we've talked about that a lot.
Caesar Kalinowski:There's not a whole lot of discipleship going on in a lot of our churches.
Caesar Kalinowski:So even that aspect of it and, and the way we serve our communities as the church is gonna radically change as we make disciples who make disciples and they see their whole life is caught up in this.
Caesar Kalinowski:The eternal mission that God has to fill the world with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, we
Heath Hollensbe:get to do this.
Heath Hollensbe:I can't believe it, you know?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:That's amazing, man.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, as we're wrapping up, um, we wanna get to the big three for this week.
Heath Hollensbe:And the way you get the big three is by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:What are the big three?
Caesar Kalinowski:Explain what that is.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, so the big three are, are three takeaways we want people to have right now tangibly that they could walk away with, get involved with.
Heath Hollensbe:It's even starting right now.
Heath Hollensbe:Uh, and we've been using this head, heart hands approach, which is kind of, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:Something to kinda know, something
Caesar Kalinowski:to believe, and then something you can get after.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so, totally.
Caesar Kalinowski:So here's the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Today.
Caesar Kalinowski:So making disciples that make disciples within any and all of the seven pillars is how the world will be filled with God's glory.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Even if you're not aware of it, that's what's happening.
Caesar Kalinowski:It really is.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we get to intentional it, and it's how he will use you, everyone listening to accomplish his eternal purpose to fill in the world with his glory.
Caesar Kalinowski:So your goal with engaging any of these pillars is to identify and build discipleship relationships, not just do good works or acts of service.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's pretty big.
Caesar Kalinowski:I two totally
Heath Hollensbe:different things.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's huge difference.
Caesar Kalinowski:A lot of good people doing good things, but the discipleship matters.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And just being nice doesn't change the world like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, they need Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, second of the big three, believe that God has uniquely and sovereignly placed you right where he wants you within one or.
Caesar Kalinowski:Several of the pillars.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's gifted you and he's gifted everyone and given you relationships of trust within this segment of your culture already.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just think about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know you have them.
Caesar Kalinowski:The level of intentionality that we bring to this will determine how effective will be and engaging and transforming that part of culture.
Caesar Kalinowski:It won't happen structurally, you know, like through like just the passing of laws.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause the virus won't change.
Caesar Kalinowski:It will happen relationally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, we always think we can fund, you know, fund the problem away.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, that's why we wrangle over government styles of government and politics and, uh, healthcare, and we think we can just fund it away or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no, you know, change doesn't happen that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:It happens relationally.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gonna happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look at right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is like, so the hands part of this, get right after it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Look at and pray through the seven pillars and see where you have the most natural engagement already.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because everybody does stop and think about it, talk about it at dinner today, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then look to engage people within that sphere of culture in ways that you can serve them, earn their trust and build relationships that that can then move beyond just being acquaintances to becoming relationships in community.
Caesar Kalinowski:With discipleship as your focus.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I know that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some people are gonna go like, I don't get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You wanna change the culture, build relationships within that pillar and Disciple some people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if I'm telling you, if we focused on that and just if a church or a community or a family even just picked one of the pillars and said, that's it for the next 30 years, that's our focus.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're gonna look back over your shoulder in a few years and you're gonna see massive cultural shift.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:' Caesar Kalinowski: cause the ethos, the heart of it's all gonna change.
Heath Hollensbe:Look for those People of Peace who are already leaning into relationship within that pillar that you are already living in.
Heath Hollensbe:Yep.
Heath Hollensbe:And seek to build relationships for discipleship.
Heath Hollensbe:Do I get too heavy today?
Heath Hollensbe:No.
Heath Hollensbe:Not
Caesar Kalinowski:too
Heath Hollensbe:heavy.
Heath Hollensbe:It was great.
Heath Hollensbe:We hope you, uh, download this week's big three takeaways.
Heath Hollensbe:And again, to do that, all you have to do is go to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:To get the notes immediately.
Heath Hollensbe:And that's for this week's big three.
Heath Hollensbe:And if you're not part of our Facebook group yet, we'd encourage you to join us.
Heath Hollensbe:All you have to do is go to Facebook on the search bar, type in the Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:And, uh, there's a growing community of people there where we actually are able to engage conversation even deeper than hang you do, hang out, hang out a little bit together, get to know one another.
Heath Hollensbe:So we hope you you join us there.
Heath Hollensbe:And if you're enjoying this podcast, if you wouldn't mind heading to iTunes.
Heath Hollensbe:The three things that we ask that are super helpful is that you subscribe to the podcast, that you rate this show with lots of stars and that you write up an honest review.
Heath Hollensbe:For us, it doesn't even have to be long.
Heath Hollensbe:Short is fine, but that helps bless us.
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Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember.
Heath Hollensbe:You really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
