Adam and David reflect on what some of the Church Fathers and early Christian saints said about Jesus in the Agony of the Garden.

In this episode we discuss:

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• The meaning of the location of the garden
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• Was Jesus fearful of death?
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• The meaning behind Jesus 3 times telling the apostles to pray in the garden
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• Christ's prayers in the garden
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Agony In The GardenDavid Niles:[00:00:00] Warning. The Catholic Man Show contains high levels of manliness. If you think you may be too weak to withstand the manliness represented in the following program, please do yourself a favor and stop listening now. If you choose to continue in spite of this warning, If at any time you feel yourself overcome by the manliness, stop immediately and consult your closest medical professional.And now, for the not so fair, faint, or frilly, we present the Catholic Men's Show.Adam Minihan: Welcome to the Catholic man show. We're on the Lord's team, the winning side. I David Niles: was Adam Minihan: trying to figure out like how to [00:01:00] say, have a good holy week. You know the people? In Latin? No, just like in English. David Niles: You should ask Google Translate. Yeah, Adam Minihan: because that always works. Yeah, it's been, it's hit home runs for us every time we've done that.So many times. But I was like, you know, have an efficacious Holy Week. No, that doesn't, like, that isn't right. Like, have an intense Holy Week. I don't, I don't know, like, may you suffer well, David Niles: like, maybe a I mean, it sounds like the question you're asking really is, like, I have wondered the same thing about Lent.Yeah, you know because it's kind of the same thing. Yeah, like but specifically Adam Minihan: for a holy week huh, right as we're entering into the holiest week of the year David Niles: I mean it's like but it's really a question of a distinction of degrees not kind, right? In what you're like because if it was true about Lent, it's definitely true now.Yes, right And so I used to say I used to say something I think I used to say like maybe it was efficacious and efficacious Lent to you Adam Minihan: But like that just doesn't hit, you know, it's like, I don't know, like have an intensely prayerful whole [00:02:00] week. It was like for a David Niles: while. It's like, this is years ago. It's like kind of down with the happy Lent, have a happy, happy Lent.And you know, I hope you do have a happy Lent, but that's not like the thing I want to wish you. About Lent. Like, to me, like, the thing that is essential to Lent isn't that it's happy. It's happiness. Yeah. Right. You know, sort of like Easter would It's not, it's not, Lent's Adam Minihan: charism, so to speak. David Niles: Right, exactly.Yeah, it's not it's charism. That's exactly right. Whereas Easter, on the other hand, is like Joyful! Joyous! Yeah, like so, well, but, if I can remember it before the end of the episode, I will You'll, and I will just Cut us off. Stop, absolutely halt whatever it is we're saying about, saying at the time.Perfect. And just Throw it in. Yeah. And we'll see. Okay. And then we can carry on. Adam Minihan: I'm very excited to enter into the Easter season. Dude, me too. I cannot wait. It's gonna be so awesome. The beautiful thing about fasting is that you get to feast. You know, there's, there's seasons of feasting. Yeah. And if you fast well, you get to feast [00:03:00] well.You know, like, feasting, like, It means more. David Niles: Yeah, and it's great that we have, I think Palm Sunday is just, you know, the Church's liturgical calendar is a work of art, I think. We're in the middle of, you know, at the middle of Lent, towards the end of Lent, now entering into the most penitential week of the year, but we have Palm Sunday first, which is like the celebration of Jesus entering tri, you know, triumphantly into Jerusalem, you know, to, like, this is a, this is a Sunday to really feast.Amidst all Sundays, as we celebrate Christ's triumphant you know, like, entrance into Jerusalem. Yeah. It's like a, a real victory. It's a, a day of victory. So, and that's a beautiful thing to have right here before we go into the most penitential week of the year. Yeah. Adam Minihan: Yeah. Well, when we commit deicide, [00:04:00] David Niles: which is bad.It's bad. It's a bad It's one of our Well, it's not good, Adam. Adam Minihan: It's one of the ugliest marks for David Niles: humankind. Well, let's see how it works out for him, Cotton. Adam Minihan: Oh, man. Okay, so hey, we are Bold strategy. Bold strategy, yeah, but it turns out it, it was David Niles: It's, it seemed like a bad, it seemed like a fail, and then it turned out to be a pretty, you know, like, I imagine that's how it was for Satan.Don't you think that Satan thought, like, as he watched Christ hanging on the cross, don't you think he thought he was winning, or something? I imagine that that was a Yeah, probably some Like a big bait and switch. On the devil. Yeah, you know like when all of a sudden he realized what he's back. I was like rooting for him like I, you know, like, deceived one of his own apostles, his, like, inner circle, into betraying him [00:05:00] and getting him killed.And now Only to realize, that's what's the, that, you know, like, AGH! Adam Minihan: Now the gates of heaven are all open. Right, yeah, it's like, that's a big backfire. That is, yeah. So this evening, you know what's not a big backfire, is this whiskey we're having this evening. It's so good. Wyoming whiskey, we've had Wyoming whiskey on the show several times, this is the double cask.I gotta tell you, my dad actually asked me, he was going to a friend's house not too long ago, and he said, hey, what's a good bourbon that's not very expensive to bring over to their house? And I said, listen, and we get this question a lot from people, they email us or text us or something like that, asking us, hey, what's a bourbon?Here's my go tos, okay? So for bourbons, If you can find Wyoming whiskey, David Niles: that's the, that's the win. Hard to find here in Oklahoma, a little bit. It, you can, you, you can find it, but. It's, it's cheap, you know, it's. So what was this, like 35, maybe 40 bucks? Yeah, it's under 40 for sure. Yeah, and this is the double cask.Right. The, the regular is even [00:06:00] cheaper. And it's so Adam Minihan: smooth. And it's so good. Yeah, so my dad couldn't find Wyoming whiskey. Cause it's hard to find, like you mentioned. Yeah, David Niles: in other states, the closer you get to Wyoming. If you're in Wyoming, this is at every grocery store, it's at every liquor store, and it's like 30 bucks.Yeah. It's really cheap. Adam Minihan: So I told them like, Wyoming whiskey is a good one. 1792, I really like. Yeah. It's one that has a great presentation bottle. It's a cheaper whiskey. The whiskey is good. It's smooth. It doesn't have a harsh bite. It's not, it's not David Niles: like, uberly complex. Right. But it's, but it's good.It's a easy drinking. Right. Yeah. Not going to offend anybody. Everyone's going to enjoy it and have a good time. Buffalo Trace is Adam Minihan: another one. Eagle Rare is another one. You know, there's, there's several. Anyway, it was really funny because he got there, he brought 1792. He got there, somebody else had brought a Wyoming whiskey, and so he had a chance to try both.Huh. And he said, he really liked the 1792, but he said, the Wyoming whiskey was just so smooth. Yeah. And so David Niles: It [00:07:00] really is, and everything I've had from them is all good. Yeah. Every single Adam Minihan: thing. This one is, so again, double cask, it's a straight bourbon whiskey finished in sherry casks, so it has a little sweetness at the end there, which is nice because it's you know 50 percent ABV.The whiskey gets its color and character from the cask in which it ages and matures. This double cask whiskey goes through the process twice. The first five years in the barrel makes it a bourbon. The sherry cask adds a nice touch of sweetness and brings out the best in the spirit to deliver superior smoothness and drinkability.You can drink it on ice with twist. And anything nice. David Niles: You know, okay. That is another thing I don't, I'm not a ice in my whiskey guy. But if you have every now and then you want to make a drink and if you, all you have are nice scotches and expensive bourbons. You're not going to want to make, well you might make an old fashioned out of a nice, a nice [00:08:00] bourbon, but this is a whiskey that I'm not afraid to, oh yeah, like, mix in a drink, because it just, it doesn't cost very much, right, so like sure, whatever, even though I'm I always drink it neat and straight, like a man.It's so good. Adam Minihan: So we're on the Lord's team. The winning side. David Niles: So raise your glass. Cheers to Jesus. Cheers. And the last thing I'll say about Wyoming whiskey is it's just kind of a cool story. It's not like a story of ancient tradition, like every single whiskey distiller tries to present themselves.Right. Basically it's all made in this tiny town in Wyoming. And I think they Yeah, I think they employ like Almost the entire town, like almost everybody there because it's a, it's a small town. distillery. And so it really is become like a local, you know, everybody's really proud of the product that they make there.Yeah. You just like to see that. Yeah. Adam Minihan: Big news for the, [00:09:00] the David ranch, the Niles ranch. We have David Niles: chicks. Yes. Just yesterday and today they started hatching. There are still four eggs that The broody hen is sitting on. We'll see if they hatch. Okay. It's been exciting. Yeah. You know, between having piglets and now baby chicks I did want to ask for prayers because I, if I can borrow a trailer, if, If my buddy Robert who is a loyal, he's your, we're, our buddy Robert, one of the best guys, I mean, really, and he also has a nice trailer that he lets me borrow anytime I want, and I just text him this evening, like, hey, can I borrow your trailer tomorrow, and I haven't heard back from him yet, but the Cattle Auction is tomorrow, okay, and if you guys remember the story about the last time I went to the Cattle Auction, the hilarious debacle, yes, I'm about trying to, trying to buy, I don't know what you call [00:10:00] it.Deformed is maybe the best, the most, the politest word I can think of to describe this cow. But it's really cheap, right? So, I just would like prayers that I don't humiliate myself again. Adam Minihan: Or, That you do for the sake of your David Niles: humility. And if I do, if I do humiliate myself, that I get a lot of traction out of it.You know, that I, that I really, really lean into it, and like it makes a big difference in my life. And just appreciate it. Yeah, that it's like something that really, Helps me grow. to God. Yeah, exactly, and isn't wasted as just a humiliating moment in a funny story. I'm Adam Minihan: okay with either. Yeah. So for the Minnehands, we we just had our first flag football scrimmage this week.All right. I'm the coach. In a league? Yeah, we're in league. Okay. I'm the head coach. Our good friend, Blake Berger, is the assistant coach. [00:11:00] Good. We have a lot of work to do. Yeah, we have a lot of work to do. The plays in which we drew it, so I got pretty intense, maybe a little too intense some would say.Okay. Drew up a lot of plays. All the kids had wristbands. Plays were on the wristbands. Holding them up. Telling them like colors. We hadn't practiced yet. The first scrimmage was like the practice. So there was some frustration on my part. Yeah. Cause David Niles: it's Forgot to go over like positions. Adam Minihan: Yeah. Yeah. They didn't Oh yeah.No, it's just defense. Yeah. So we're gonna work through that. But, it should be, it should be a fun year. David Niles: Awesome. Do you feel like God is calling you to go on a pilgrimage? Yes. Well, for the last 34 years, Select International Tours has been leading pilgrimages to holy sites all over Adam Minihan: the world. And you want, when you go on pilgrimages, Dave, you want to make sure you have the great, the best hotels, you're touring with the best guides, and every detail has been addressed.David Niles: And that's exactly what you're getting with Select International Tours. So, for more [00:12:00] information, go to their brand new website, SelectInternationalTours. com. They have been a sponsor of the Catholic Man Show for a long time now. Even during the COVID pandemic, they were still sponsoring our show. A lot of other tour companies were really shutting down.These guys were consistent. So, go to SelectInternationalTours. com to find out more information about all the great pilgrimages they offer.Welcome back to the Catholic Man Show, I'm David Niles. Here with Adam Minahan, we're drinking a delicious Irish bourbon.I'm just kidding. Obviously. But I did want to talk about the St. Patrick's Day party we threw at St. Benedict's here in Broken Arrow. It was a rager. It was. It was awesome. A ton of people there. Yes. This is, I want to, I just want to tell, this is a hilarious story, so I just wanted to share it. I [00:13:00] wasn't part of this conversation, but it was relayed to me by my father.He's a very trustworthy man, okay? Except when he tells stories, usually. But in this case, I'm pretty sure, as one who has a lifetime of experience curating truth, I'm From falsehood amidst his stories, I'm pretty sure this one's true. Father John O'Neill, good Irish Catholic priest we have here in the Diocese of Tulsa in Eastern Oklahoma, he was there playing some music.Yes. So, he was sitting there talking to some other priests, and they were, like, just joking with each other about how, like, their own, like, ability to bless. And one of the priests made the comment, like, Oh man, I don't know if mine makes it much further than, like, ten feet. I'm And you know, like, I just, you know, I just can't do it, I mean, ten feet, that's about my max, as far as I can, my blessing just doesn't reach further than that.And another guy was like, I think mine goes, like, probably thirty yards. And then Father John O'Neill was like, you guys gotta work on [00:14:00] this. Mine goes a long way. I mean, like, hundreds and hundreds of yards. And he actually said, like, watch, and there was a, he pointed to a guy, Way far away, and he's like watch this and he made the sign of the cross and like blessed him and as soon as he did The dude fell overAnd they all just like lost it, you know, like that's awesome like Right. I do need to talk about like don't you wish you were there? Yeah to see that happen like watch, you know make the sign of the cross and just dude Adam Minihan: falls over Also shout out to our daughters who did A superb job. Yeah. David Niles: They were the highlight of the show Adam Minihan: Of Irish dancing at the.Dude, David Niles: Anna, Anna is looking good. Like, her form She's, she's getting there, yeah. Like, she is I hadn't seen her dance since when, kind of when we got started. Yeah. And so, like, the other day, when, when I was there, like, man, [00:15:00] she's She's picking it up. Like, she looks like Adam Minihan: An David Niles: Irish dancer. Yeah, I mean Yeah, she's picking it up.She definitely has better, like, posture, and it's, a lot of it is in the posture. Adam Minihan: Especially in Irish dance. In Irish dance, specifically, yeah. The postures were very key, right, because they weren't supposed to be, like, Irish dance kind of became a thing because they weren't allowed to dance, and so they, so, you know, they couldn't move their hands around as they're, as they're dancing, so they always kept their David Niles: hands.Because it was, there were penal laws established that actually forbade dancing....

Agony In The Garden

And now, for the not so fair, faint, or frilly, we present the Catholic Men's Show.

Adam Minihan: Welcome to the Catholic man show. We're on the Lord's team, the winning side. I

David Niles: was

David Niles: You should ask Google Translate. Yeah,

Adam Minihan: because that always works. Yeah, it's been, it's hit home runs for us every time we've done that.

So many times. But I was like, you know, have an efficacious Holy Week. No, that doesn't, like, that isn't right. Like, have an intense Holy Week. I don't, I don't know, like, may you suffer well,

David Niles: like, maybe a I mean, it sounds like the question you're asking really is, like, I have wondered the same thing about Lent.

Yeah, you know because it's kind of the same thing. Yeah, like but specifically

Adam Minihan: for a holy week huh, right as we're entering into the holiest week of the year

David Niles: I mean it's like but it's really a question of a distinction of degrees not kind, right? In what you're like because if it was true about Lent, it's definitely true now.

Yes, right And so I used to say I used to say something I think I used to say like maybe it was efficacious and efficacious Lent to you

David Niles: while. It's like, this is years ago. It's like kind of down with the happy Lent, have a happy, happy Lent.

And you know, I hope you do have a happy Lent, but that's not like the thing I want to wish you. About Lent. Like, to me, like, the thing that is essential to Lent isn't that it's happy. It's happiness. Yeah. Right. You know, sort of like Easter would It's not, it's not, Lent's

Adam Minihan: charism, so to speak.

David Niles: Right, exactly.

Yeah, it's not it's charism. That's exactly right. Whereas Easter, on the other hand, is like Joyful! Joyous! Yeah, like so, well, but, if I can remember it before the end of the episode, I will You'll, and I will just Cut us off. Stop, absolutely halt whatever it is we're saying about, saying at the time.

Perfect. And just Throw it in. Yeah. And we'll see. Okay. And then we can carry on.

You know, like, feasting, like, It means more.

David Niles: Yeah, and it's great that we have, I think Palm Sunday is just, you know, the Church's liturgical calendar is a work of art, I think. We're in the middle of, you know, at the middle of Lent, towards the end of Lent, now entering into the most penitential week of the year, but we have Palm Sunday first, which is like the celebration of Jesus entering tri, you know, triumphantly into Jerusalem, you know, to, like, this is a, this is a Sunday to really feast.

Amidst all Sundays, as we celebrate Christ's triumphant you know, like, entrance into Jerusalem. Yeah. It's like a, a real victory. It's a, a day of victory. So, and that's a beautiful thing to have right here before we go into the most penitential week of the year. Yeah.

David Niles: which is bad.

It's bad. It's a bad It's one of our Well, it's not good, Adam.

Adam Minihan: It's one of the ugliest marks for

David Niles: humankind. Well, let's see how it works out for him, Cotton.

Adam Minihan: Oh, man. Okay, so hey, we are Bold strategy. Bold strategy, yeah, but it turns out it, it was

David Niles: It's, it seemed like a bad, it seemed like a fail, and then it turned out to be a pretty, you know, like, I imagine that's how it was for Satan.

And now Only to realize, that's what's the, that, you know, like, AGH!

Adam Minihan: Now the gates of heaven are all open. Right, yeah, it's like, that's a big backfire. That is, yeah. So this evening, you know what's not a big backfire, is this whiskey we're having this evening. It's so good. Wyoming whiskey, we've had Wyoming whiskey on the show several times, this is the double cask.

I gotta tell you, my dad actually asked me, he was going to a friend's house not too long ago, and he said, hey, what's a good bourbon that's not very expensive to bring over to their house? And I said, listen, and we get this question a lot from people, they email us or text us or something like that, asking us, hey, what's a bourbon?

Here's my go tos, okay? So for bourbons, If you can find Wyoming whiskey,

David Niles: that's the, that's the win. Hard to find here in Oklahoma, a little bit. It, you can, you, you can find it, but. It's, it's cheap, you know, it's. So what was this, like 35, maybe 40 bucks? Yeah, it's under 40 for sure. Yeah, and this is the double cask.

Adam Minihan: smooth. And it's so good. Yeah, so my dad couldn't find Wyoming whiskey. Cause it's hard to find, like you mentioned. Yeah,

David Niles: in other states, the closer you get to Wyoming. If you're in Wyoming, this is at every grocery store, it's at every liquor store, and it's like 30 bucks.

Yeah. It's really cheap.

David Niles: like, uberly complex. Right. But it's, but it's good.

It's a easy drinking. Right. Yeah. Not going to offend anybody. Everyone's going to enjoy it and have a good time. Buffalo Trace is

Huh. And he said, he really liked the 1792, but he said, the Wyoming whiskey was just so smooth. Yeah. And so

Adam Minihan: thing. This one is, so again, double cask, it's a straight bourbon whiskey finished in sherry casks, so it has a little sweetness at the end there, which is nice because it's you know 50 percent ABV.

The whiskey gets its color and character from the cask in which it ages and matures. This double cask whiskey goes through the process twice. The first five years in the barrel makes it a bourbon. The sherry cask adds a nice touch of sweetness and brings out the best in the spirit to deliver superior smoothness and drinkability.

You can drink it on ice with twist. And anything nice.

It's so good.

Adam Minihan: So we're on the Lord's team. The winning side.

David Niles: So raise your glass. Cheers to Jesus. Cheers. And the last thing I'll say about Wyoming whiskey is it's just kind of a cool story. It's not like a story of ancient tradition, like every single whiskey distiller tries to present themselves.

Right. Basically it's all made in this tiny town in Wyoming. And I think they Yeah, I think they employ like Almost the entire town, like almost everybody there because it's a, it's a small town. distillery. And so it really is become like a local, you know, everybody's really proud of the product that they make there.

Yeah. You just like to see that. Yeah.

David Niles: chicks. Yes. Just yesterday and today they started hatching. There are still four eggs that The broody hen is sitting on. We'll see if they hatch. Okay. It's been exciting. Yeah. You know, between having piglets and now baby chicks I did want to ask for prayers because I, if I can borrow a trailer, if, If my buddy Robert who is a loyal, he's your, we're, our buddy Robert, one of the best guys, I mean, really, and he also has a nice trailer that he lets me borrow anytime I want, and I just text him this evening, like, hey, can I borrow your trailer tomorrow, and I haven't heard back from him yet, but the Cattle Auction is tomorrow, okay, and if you guys remember the story about the last time I went to the Cattle Auction, the hilarious debacle, yes, I'm about trying to, trying to buy, I don't know what you call [00:10:00] it.

Deformed is maybe the best, the most, the politest word I can think of to describe this cow. But it's really cheap, right? So, I just would like prayers that I don't humiliate myself again.

Adam Minihan: Or, That you do for the sake of your

David Niles: humility. And if I do, if I do humiliate myself, that I get a lot of traction out of it.

You know, that I, that I really, really lean into it, and like it makes a big difference in my life. And just appreciate it. Yeah, that it's like something that really, Helps me grow. to God. Yeah, exactly, and isn't wasted as just a humiliating moment in a funny story. I'm

Adam Minihan: okay with either. Yeah. So for the Minnehands, we we just had our first flag football scrimmage this week.

Okay. Drew up a lot of plays. All the kids had wristbands. Plays were on the wristbands. Holding them up. Telling them like colors. We hadn't practiced yet. The first scrimmage was like the practice. So there was some frustration on my part. Yeah. Cause

David Niles: it's Forgot to go over like positions.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. Yeah. They didn't Oh yeah.

No, it's just defense. Yeah. So we're gonna work through that. But, it should be, it should be a fun year.

David Niles: Awesome. Do you feel like God is calling you to go on a pilgrimage? Yes. Well, for the last 34 years, Select International Tours has been leading pilgrimages to holy sites all over

Adam Minihan: the world. And you want, when you go on pilgrimages, Dave, you want to make sure you have the great, the best hotels, you're touring with the best guides, and every detail has been addressed.

These guys were consistent. So, go to SelectInternationalTours. com to find out more information about all the great pilgrimages they offer.

Welcome back to the Catholic Man Show, I'm David Niles. Here with Adam Minahan, we're drinking a delicious Irish bourbon.

He's a very trustworthy man, okay? Except when he tells stories, usually. But in this case, I'm pretty sure, as one who has a lifetime of experience curating truth, I'm From falsehood amidst his stories, I'm pretty sure this one's true. Father John O'Neill, good Irish Catholic priest we have here in the Diocese of Tulsa in Eastern Oklahoma, he was there playing some music.

Yes. So, he was sitting there talking to some other priests, and they were, like, just joking with each other about how, like, their own, like, ability to bless. And one of the priests made the comment, like, Oh man, I don't know if mine makes it much further than, like, ten feet. I'm And you know, like, I just, you know, I just can't do it, I mean, ten feet, that's about my max, as far as I can, my blessing just doesn't reach further than that.

And they all just like lost it, you know, like that's awesome like Right. I do need to talk about like don't you wish you were there? Yeah to see that happen like watch, you know make the sign of the cross and just dude

Adam Minihan: falls over Also shout out to our daughters who did A superb job. Yeah.

David Niles: They were the highlight of the show

Adam Minihan: Of Irish dancing at the.

Dude,

Adam Minihan: An

David Niles: Irish dancer. Yeah, I mean Yeah, she's picking it up.

She definitely has better, like, posture, and it's, a lot of it is in the posture.

Adam Minihan: Especially in Irish dance. In Irish dance, specifically, yeah. The postures were very key, right, because they weren't supposed to be, like, Irish dance kind of became a thing because they weren't allowed to dance, and so they, so, you know, they couldn't move their hands around as they're, as they're dancing, so they always kept their

David Niles: hands.

Because it was, there were penal laws established that actually forbade dancing. Right, right. And so they, they ended up, you know, There are several theories about the development of Irish dance. This one says that they developed a style of dance that made it look like they weren't dancing. Very upright.

I'm not dancing, I'm just kicking my feet. Almost like you have plausible deniability. Were you dancing? Does it look like I was dancing? What do you I'm not sure what

David Niles: they will We're very proud of you.

If they don't listen to our show someday, then what are we even doing? Then they're bad children Taking you out of their will.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. Okay. You want to get into that? Oh, yes. Oh before we do really fast Just real quick. We have a lot of things going on for our patreon that we're doing And indeed if you guys listen to that last week's episode, we're giving away prayer candles, 10 inch tapered prayer candles, 100 percent beeswax by ambrosian candles.

The first 50 patrons, 10 or more a month, will receive that on top of everything else that we give, including these Catholic Manchurian Glencairn glasses. Which are awesome! And so Dishwasher safe! And one of the yeah

David Niles: Etched with lasers. They're laser etched.

Adam Minihan: With lasers. With lasers. Yeah. And then we're also having a Ask a Theologian.

David Niles: and you can read.

His name's Dr. Aaron Henderson. He's a Thomist. Yes. And he's a brilliant, he's a young guy brilliant. His, his He is so good about giving very complicated answers in a way that anybody can

Adam Minihan: understand. Yeah. So I'm really excited about that. And then we're also building out study guides for paper books, for Joseph Bieber books.

So we have a lot of things in the pipeline. For our patrons. So if you go to patreon.com/the Catholic Man Show, you can support our show. We'd love the opportunity to get to know you a little bit better. And, and, and you know, we're, we're trying to build up our Patreon, Patreon account to where we all learn more about the faith and learn, learn more about the church, and ultimately learn more about our Lord.

Like even when you're, I'm praying the sorrowful mysteries, the rosary, like the, that mystery is the one that's actually the most real to me.

David Niles: It's, it's see for me, I would say that's the scourging. The scourging is very, yeah,

Adam Minihan: it's, but like the scourging is absolutely real, right? Easy to meditate on because you almost like feel it like as you're

David Niles: yeah But I think the suffering involved in the scourging is the most Excessive like I think it's the most understandable this like this the what the profundity of the suffering in the agony of the garden It's just less, it's less apparent, right?

Adam Minihan: that the intensity of suffering lies more in a physical suffering

David Niles: or?

No, no, no, not, no, certainly. For Christ it was, it was, I don't know if you'd call it mental, maybe mental suffering, but an emotional suffering. Like tonight we're talking about the agony of the garden. To me, the agony, I think the closest analogy I can come to in my life has been that moment when like, If you, if like someone breaks up with you or like a relationship ends that you don't want to, you know, you have this intense love for somebody else.

And his suffering would be Was born out of his love for those people and myself included because I have I've I have been that man Far too many times, you know, just how much he loves us in that moment Amidst that total rejection.

Yeah. That there's, like, the more that you can love something, the more that, you know, there's more suffering involved. The more you suffer something, the more you can love something.

David Niles: Right. Yeah, it increases your capacity for both.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. As you grow. Yeah, so it's very interesting. One of the things that I always

David Niles: thought of That's why I like the cross.

The cross is always involved in love. Right. Because if you do love someone, You're basically bringing the cross more and more into your life. Now, maybe that person won't wound you the person you're loving is not perfect, and so they, eventually they will, in small ways or big ways, you know, so the more, yeah, but the more you love, and that's why people, that's why you know, and everybody knows people like this, who just, you know, Close themselves off.

Right. Yeah, which is so sad. And which is, which is a defense mechanism, and you know, I don't think that they always are choosing to do it, but that is not the Christian life. Right. The Christian life calls us to embrace that cross and embrace the suffering that comes along with a deeper and deeper love for everyone.

Yeah. I think that's always something that, that's something that Haley and I do every year for Holy Week. Yeah. And it really brings home, it really creates this, like, here's what really happened. But another thing is obviously to read the Gospels, especially the Passion, right? So, if you have Matthew, Mark, and Luke all focus on have a different type of narrative, so to speak, than John does, right?

So John typically focuses more on the divinity of Jesus. Matthew, Mark, and Luke typically focus on the kind of the human aspect, or the, the the divine and the human aspect of Jesus, but John is really focused on the divine aspect

David Niles: of Jesus, right? He's pretty clear that John had the, I mean, he had the other Gospels when he was writing his.

Adam Minihan: Add to it. Build on pawn. Right. So so, what, some of the things to think about. So let's, let's go through. So, so Jesus is now, he's gone through the Passover, right?

And so one of the things I was reading about Preparing for this is you know at the Passover the the small tea tradition of this that where the Passover happened is actually where Mark was Mark's house his parents house Yeah, it was his parents

David Niles: house. It was his parents house and it became his house

Adam Minihan: his family's house his family's house Yeah, which was very interesting, right?

Yeah, but when we get back So I want to like enter into like what it was the garden You He's entering into it. Was he afraid of death? Did he fear death? Things to talk about on the other side of the break. We'll be right back.

We go to Mass. We maybe have a family dinner. But then it seems like everything goes back to normal the next day. But Easter is the greatest celebration of the Christian year. And with the Octave of Solemnities and a season of 50 days lasting longer than Lent, We should really be intentional about how we celebrate this.

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Welcome back to the Catholic Man Show.

Hope this holy week provides you many graces upon you and your family. We're talking about the agony in the garden, talking about You know, the beginning, basically, of, of the passion, of Jesus entering into his passion. It starts with the Passover, obviously, we just talked about on the other side of the

David Niles: break.

A redemptive Lent to you. A redemptive Lent. That's what I used to say. Nice. Just thinking about it. A redemptive Lent.

Adam Minihan: A redemptive Lent for you. Nice. So, before the break, we were talking about how the Passover

David Niles: That went exactly as I said

Yeah. So we, we were talking about like either the Passover started, it was actually, you know, the small tea tradition that it was in Mark's parents' house. Yeah. One of the writers of the gospels and so he, he, he enters into, he has the Passover and he enters into the Garden of Gethsemane.

Mm-Hmm. and the, the amount of olives. Right. And say, so a lot of this is, I'm actually pulling from St. Thomas Aquinas and his, all of his wisdom, he, he. One of the things he did was he has the Katena Katena Aria. Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah. And basically what it is is commentary on the Gospels and all he does is he pulls from the Church Fathers and the early, early Church Saints.

It's like on the commentaries on, on the Gospels.

Adam Minihan: it's, or, or, early church

David Niles: saints, or yeah, or other, yeah, exactly, but, oh, it's mostly, like, heavily church fathers.

Right. He put it together from these things that they said. So it's not his commentary. It's not even his commentary. He, but he did compile it. He did curate, you know, and decide. And it's beautiful. It's, it's beautiful. Incredible. Yeah. And so, like, this is, you know, like, the Summa is great. The Gospels are better.

You know, okay? And so, like, this is the best, well, there's a lot of great commentaries on Gospels out there that, you know, might be actually more helpful today because, like, we lose a lot about the culture. But anyway, the Catena Aurea, I think everyone should

Because we've talked about this on the show before, but you know, there's four ways to read the Bible, right? We had a conversation with Deacon Harrison Garlick on this, right? The literal, the allegorical, the moral, and the anagogical, right? And so like, there's The more that you can read into scripture, and the more you can pull out, and the more you can pull from other sources, right, the more

David Niles: it becomes alive.

Right. Yeah, so there's always four answers to what does this passage mean. Yes.

David Niles: Right, yeah, it was sort of a rendezvous spot

Adam Minihan: for him. Right, so, remember, Jesus knows that he's entering into the passion. He knows that Judas is already left. He knows that Judas is going to be coming back and turning him in. Huh. And so he's not going to a place that's difficult for him to find, like, to, to kind of hide.

Right. He's going to a place that, like, People have seen him there a lot. Mm hmm. Thousands of people have seen him there teaching, preaching. There's nothing more conspicuous. Right. Right. Yeah. But St. Christendom says that, that it was his practice to pray apart from, from everybody else, right? From his apostles, from even his closest people.

Yeah.

David Niles: Right. Yeah, I mean, and this time, of course, he did take Peter, James, and John.

Adam Minihan: And then, but then further, went even further. But then, yeah, but

David Niles: then he, yeah, you're right, he even Apart from that, there's a lot of moments in the gospel where he goes by himself to

So even and think Damascene, he talks about this as well, is like the importance of when you are stressed, when there is a lot of anxiety, the importance of removing yourself from, from everybody else and, and offering that up to

David Niles: our Lord. I think this is also just a One of those things about the great, the mystery of the hypostatic union, the fact that Christ is fully man, fully divine, right?

He's not a human person, he's a divine person, but he was fully, he took on a human nature, and he was fully human. And so that's why he is the, Exemplary example, right? He's the example of examples for us as men, because there is a temptation to be like, well sure, Christ did this, but I don't walk on water, you know, so therefore I'm not, like, what, I'm not gonna pay attention to what he does.

Right, you know like because if we're praying it's not about you, right? So like really having that quiet prayer Even jesus needed it. That's the thing. He's god and even he needed it and

Adam Minihan: And especially in in times where you know, we see this throughout the gospels where he knew he was going to be preaching to a lot of people or he knew he was going to enter into a lot of people trial and tribulation, like about to, you know, through Lent, going into the desert, you know.

David Niles: be.

Christ reveals man to himself and makes his supreme calling clear.

Adam Minihan: Right. And so anyway, so he gives us this example. To For us to use, right? Yeah. So one of the things I actually thought that was very interesting as well that Thomas, right, includes in this commentary is, is from a Benedictine month, monk of the 9th century.

I think, I looked it up, and I think this is how you pronounce it, is remi Remigius, I think is how you actually say it. I thought it was going to be rim something, but it's like It's not

David Niles: re it's not remigius? No.

Adam Minihan: Remigius. Yeah, I think that's I mean that's how I

David Niles: Who knows. Anyway. You know what, we could say how we could we could say A lot of

Adam Minihan: most of his Nobody knows.

So he knew like, you know, the shepherd would be, would hit and his flock would scatter. Like Christ says. Right. And therefore bade them to sit still in their places. in the agony of the garden. For to sit belongs to one at ease, but they would be grievously troubled that they should have denied him. And so he was talking, he's talking about like, hey, because this is what Jesus does, right?

In the agony, he brings the three, the Peter, James, and John, and says, Sit here and pray while I go over here and pray. And he goes, basically, a stone throw away is what the gospel says. Yeah. And prostrates himself, throws his face down on the ground to pray. But he tells them to sit still and pray. Which I thought was so benedictine, right?

He gave them this last minute lesson to sit still and pray,

David Niles: right here. Yeah, you know, he's, like, and what he's saying here, he's very much aware of their shortcomings Just, whether physically or whatever, I mean, think about this. At this point, these, these disciples, the exception of Judas, they're passionately in love with, with Christ.

I imagine he looked like, he had to look rough. Yeah, maybe a little rough. Okay, but in this moment, he's sweating blood. Okay, hold on. Let's not get to that point yet. But I just want to, my point is, they even, they couldn't even stay awake, even seeing his distress, knowing what was about to happen, because it wasn't, okay, like, Christ has been telling them for a long time now, over and over and over and over again, I'm going to Jerusalem to die, okay?

Adam Minihan: very interesting is that's the literal read of it. Some of the church fathers have a really beautiful more moral

David Niles: reading of this.

Yeah. Well, I only bring that up to talk about what you said here is about he was very, he was very aware of their shortcomings. He knew their devotedness, but their inability to, yeah, to deal with everything. Right. So he, he gets it.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. So we're going to talk about Jesus starting to pray and if Jesus feared his death on the other side of the break.

Adam Minihan: So we're talking about the agony of the garden. We're talking about Jesus. Was that pretty good? That, that

David Niles: was pretty good. Thank you. Yeah, that was pretty good, because we're here all by yourself. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say is it's just us. Nobody else is here. . That's my lint, the linin version of me saying nobody else is here.

Adam Minihan: So we're talking about Jesus in the agony of the garden. So Saint surreal, he talked about how, you know, again, Jesus, the, the important part of Jesus. Removing himself, even from his three closest friends, Peter, James, and John, from a cast, a stone's cast away, which is in Luke's gospel. It's funny because the other gospels don't actually mention how far away.

So

David Niles: is this like

Adam Minihan: a sand wedge? I would imagine more of a lob wedge. Yeah, like

David Niles: maybe a 56 degree or like Yeah, something

David Niles: rough. Yeah, okay, out of the rough. Yeah, gotcha. That makes more sense to me. Yeah, I don't throw a lot of stones. Okay,

Adam Minihan: right so again, so they're really wanted to talk about and like Make sure people understood like the importance of Jesus going alone to pray like that It's important for all of us right to

David Niles: do this I feel like we say this a lot on our podcast, but your prayer life is like the most essential thing about your life Yeah, you're really that relationship you have with God numero uno numero.

Okay, so it's you should really do a good try try hard So,

Adam Minihan: before the break you're talking about or we said like did Jesus fear his death

David Niles: I'm gonna say this is cheating, but I think it's yes. And no, I think it's both Okay. I think on a human level, it's only natural for you to be, to fear death. Mm hmm.

Mm hmm. I just think, I really love that scene of Christ embracing his cross, loving it, you know. Mm hmm. Because he loves us, you know. Yeah. So I think it's, I think it's both. Yes, he feared death and, and And no, he didn't fear death. Yeah.

Adam Minihan: So the body naturally has a inclination to not have the body soul removed from one another.

Right. And so there's an anxiety that happens there, but I think that you can train, I mean, obviously you can train your body to train, train yourself to not be worried about that. Right. And we see this in with martyrs, right. For greater love. Yeah.

David Niles: And we should all be trying to do that. Yes.

They like it's a false pretense to think that Jesus feared his death. Really? Yeah So let me let me say so St. John Chrysostom who was Early church like the very early church St. John Chrysostom, right? So he says he's talking about people who thought that he was refusing his passion and like like not wanting to die Or having fear of death.

He says Nor says he this as refusing his passion for he who rebuked a disciple who wished to prevent his passion so as even after many condemnations to call him Satan, how should he be unwilling to be crucified? So remember, he just told Peter, get away from me Satan. Yeah. Because Peter was basically telling him like, Lord, don't do anything wrong.

Don't go be crucified. Don't do this. Right. And he says, get away from me, Satan.

Basically saying, follow me. Follow my ways, follow, like, come and learn from me. So when he says, get thee behind me, he's re, he's reminding Peter, follow me. He's, it's a, it's one, it's not only a rebuke, it is a rebuke, but it's also simultaneously an encouragement to say, remember Peter, remember why, remember why we're here.

Adam Minihan: beauty.

Absolutely. Yeah, and so just to make sure that you you don't think that we're just pulling one quote, right? So let me let's go to a doctor of the church st Hillary one that we don't really talk about very much. We you and I we have a book. We just bought you and I both just bought a book of st Hillary's writings and I really want to dive into it to talk more about Him as a doctor of the church and just bring some of his writings.

I don't

David Niles: know I think there's probably a it might even be the majority of Catholics think st. Hillary is a girl

Adam Minihan: But he was known as the hammer a hammer of ariens,

David Niles: which is too bad right because his name is Hillary Yeah

Adam Minihan: to us today in Latin his name really means like happiness or cheerfulness. So anyway, that's cool.

How could the fear of his passion make him

David Niles: sorrowful? Yeah, I don't know and I guess it depends on what what we mean by fear. When I was thinking fear I was like

Maybe fear is not the thing I was thinking of exactly. I was really thinking more of like, a desire for it not to happen. Which really isn't fear. That's not the same thing as, as fear. So maybe I should, it's okay, I'll let it go. It doesn't matter.

Adam Minihan: It's fair, yeah. So he brought, like we said he brought, he had forwarded them bringing Peter, James, and John with him, right?

Will be

David Niles: scattered. Which, yeah, he said so that the pro the, the prophecy may be fulfilled. Right, right.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. And so like he's, or something, he's, so his sorrow is for tho for the sheep without a shepherd. Mm-Hmm. for his, for, for his

David Niles: cre. Which is something he has said previously in the gospels already.

Adam Minihan: St. John Damascus says, Excuse me. It did say that he had a natural fear and sorrow for death, but for there is a natural fear with, for the, the soul shrinks from the separation from the body, right? Which is what we just talked about. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but by reason of that close sympathy implanted from the first of, by the maker of all things.

So it's, so he's talking about, again, we have the creator of all things. Mm hmm. Word made flesh. Now struggling. The Logos. The Logos,

David Niles: right. The word that was spoken that brought forth existence.

Adam Minihan: Yeah, and here's, here's something, like, so

David Niles: it says Thank you, I just want to say thank you to John, St. John Damascus for, like, really, like, backing me up.

He's, I feel like what he said was backing me up there. Here, here's something about

David Niles: right?

They didn't come before his will. They didn't, yeah, interfere with his will. Interfere with

Adam Minihan: his will. Because, for in Christ, nothing befell of compulsion. Christ was not a compulsive person. Right. But it was all voluntary. With his will, he hungered. With his will, he feared or was sorrowful. That's the

David Niles: thing about Christ, is that when you actually think about, oh, his voluntariness versus his compulsion, in the end, they become the same.

Adam Minihan: a good mark for a homeschool.

David Niles: Homeschool! Yeah, like, anyway his voluntariness was so it was so perfect.

That, like, to distinguish it between compulsion is difficult to do, okay? Like, he does what the father wills. Mm hmm. And it almost seems compulsory, but only because it's so voluntary.

Adam Minihan: Yeah, St. Jerome. Master, you know of, you know, the Bible, in the biblical commentary, he talks about that his soul, his sorrowfulness was not because of death, but unto death, which is what we read, right, in the Gospels.

It wasn't because of death, but unto death, until he had set the apostles free by his passion. So, it was not that his soul was sorrowful of death, but unto death. Yeah. Which I think is very important.

Adam Minihan: a good distinction. Yeah. So we're out of time on Catholic Radio, I believe. Do we have one more or is this it?

Okay go check us out on the podcast and we're going to continue talking about what does it mean when the apostles fell asleep and what did the church fathers think about that? We're on the Lord's team. The winning side. So St. Jerome talks about, you know, so Jesus goes and prays. I do

David Niles: like, of course I've always read this, my soul is sorrowful unto death.

Yeah. You know, and I really, really like the Dewey Rames style of things. This is kind of like, it's got the word unto. I know this isn't from the Dewey Rames, but still it says that. That does get a little bit confusing sometimes, because to me when I see that. I just, I can't make that distinction. It's not as clear to me because of the language, even though it sounds cooler.

Adam Minihan: So Jesus goes again, we're at the agony, we're at, we're at the garden. He goes, he brings Peter games and John, he tells him to sit down and pray.

He goes and prorates himself. He comes back and they're they're asleep, right? Yeah.

David Niles: Three times. Th Yeah. Three

Adam Minihan: times. But St. Saint Jerome talks about this. He says, did they sleep? He says he would have have them forego not bodily rest, for which is a critical time here, because remember, there's no room for this.

There's no time for this. They know that he's about to enter into his passion. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So there's no, but it's a, it's a sleep of unbelief. So, so a lot of the, the, the saints talk about this in origin as well. Talks about this, that it's not necessarily them falling asleep from a physical standpoint.

But it's a, remember the Holy, the Holy Spirit has not

David Niles: been It could have been, I think it probably was that too. Again, there's

Adam Minihan: a literal, but we're talking a little bit more, you know, further on.

element here that at least Origen is, is speaking about right

Adam Minihan: now. Yeah, so he, but they talk about, like, remember that the Holy Spirit's not descended upon them yet, right? You know, so they've not had their, their supernatural virtues have not been strengthened. They're not, they're not, like, fully awake yet.

Right, and so this is the sleep of unbelief, and this is the problem, this is what some of the, the saints talk about, like, this is the reason why Peter actually denies our, three times, and this is why the apostles scatter, and they get, you know, Frightened is because like they actually have not had the Holy Spirit descend upon them and strengthen their faith huh, which I thought was was very interesting.

Like this is yeah him Yeah, realized in charity all of his loved ones all of his closest friends. Mm hmm have departed from like I've fallen

David Niles: asleep Mm hmm. Yeah, and once again, that's I think you know each one of these Stations of the cross, you know these the agony in the garden. This is certainly part of it You know, and I think that the Apostles are The example for us all, right?

And I think that's part of the big I just really love Peter Especially the gospel of Mark. I mean if I had to pick favorites the gospel mark is my least favorite just because it's, it's kind of blunt, short, get to the, you know, it's just like, just goes boom, boom, boom, boom, like one thing to the next and it's kind of like, whoa.

Right. That was all fast. But what I really like about it is that, most likely written by Peter, or heavily influenced by Peter, and you get to see a lot of Peter's, so that's like his shortcomings are always very present. Yeah. Right? That he wanted to make sure, because you know, by the time he's writing it, he's a much different man.

St. John is also one of the guys you can kind of get to know pretty well. But Peter, he's just this, like, you just, you know him, right? And you know, people like him. And it's like And you see

Adam Minihan: yourself in him

David Niles: a lot? Yes, he's very blue collar just like, passionate, like, yes. He's like, a guy who's gonna do the

Adam Minihan: work.

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak a lot of the time.

David Niles: Right. He's like, oh, all we have to do is work hard? Okay. Yeah, we can work hard. Sure. You know, like that kind of guy. Right. You know, like you see here at the end, it's like, oh no, I'm gonna die. Totally, you're dying. I'm totally dying. And then, You know, like, he's so relatable, because, like, an hour later.

Right. Or close to it. I don't know how long it is, but not that long,

I hope this hits with other guys, because it hit with me. hard with me. He says, in reference to Thy Will Be Done, he says, Let all the sons of the church then utter this prayer, that when the pressure of some mighty temptation lies upon us, they may embrace endurance of the suffering, disregarding its terrors.

David Niles: Totally, man. I I have to do this. Sometimes. Sometimes in my prayer, I will be confronted with a fear that is unrational. For instance, yeah, I mean you know, like, for instance, sometimes this happened to me not too long ago. I'm just praying and, you know, telling the Lord, you know, whatever you want for my life, I do too.

Right. What if that's what he wanted? Would you still do it? Are you still, are you still like, Mr. Sign me up, Mr. Permission slip guy? Is he still that same guy? You know, and I have to, obviously it's like, I'm afraid of that. Right. I don't want to do that. Right. And so there are just moments like that in life where I have to say and remind myself and it's an, an actually an intellectual exercise amidst your prayer or whatever, where you say, okay, I know that God is good and I know that the things that he wants for my life, whatever they are, [00:56:00] they will be the best things.

Yeah. And so, yes. Even if that's what it is. Now, if that's what it is, Lord, you're gonna have to, like, you're gonna have to make it abundant, like, I'm not just gonna, like, run out and do that tomorrow, but you know what I mean? It's

Adam Minihan: really cool because St. Jerome actually talks about this very thing, this very thought.

In reference of Peter, so this is, like, bridges really well together, so he talks about this. He says, The more confident we are of our zeal, Which is something that, that Peter definitely had. It was something that you definitely talked about. Mr. Sign me up, Mr., you know, like, I'm all in guy. Yeah, exactly. The more mistrust we should be of our frailty of flesh.

David Niles: So we should just trust in ourselves less. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. At first I was reading that backwards like, mistrust your frailty, which is sort of like a double negative, but that's not what it means. Yeah.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. So then we see Jesus like, he's comforted by an angel. Yeah. An angel comes and comforts him, right?

Yeah, that's a Which

Adam Minihan: Okay, so why don't you read what Saint Bede says? You can read

David Niles: right there. Read that to him. Saint Bede Says in another place we read that angels came and ministered unto him. Unto him. Right, like

Adam Minihan: There's there were times like even in the desert.

There were several times. Yeah. Yeah, like Angels came to Jesus.

David Niles: I'm just gonna start using the word unto instead of to. Yeah In testimony, then, of each nature, angels are said both to have ministered to him and confronted him. Comforted. Thank you. Big difference. Yes. So they were, they both ministered and comforted him.

Adam Minihan: it's basically saying like, this is just, again, another example for us.

David Niles: Interesting. That is interesting. Because I have, I have, like, always wondered, like,

Adam Minihan: what does that mean? It's the same thing, like, I think, like, to me You're ministering to him? It's, to me, it's the same, like, relationship as, like, him being baptized. Yeah,

David Niles: I mean obviously that wasn't like a sacrament, but you know like what it's it was like this outward expression at the time of like Hey, I'm gonna live a better life right or something right?

Yeah, it's like oh really Jesus You're gonna you're just gonna turn it around live a better life now, right? But I've always kind of assumed when angels came and ministered to him. It was Semantics, you know, like what does that mean sort of like in the Old Testament when you read people saying let us bless the Lord Oh, really?

Adam Minihan: blood. Yeah, that's a different

David Niles: difference. It's that's a semantic thing They don't mean that we're going to bless the Lord. They mean like we're gonna praise the Lord, right?

So I kind of a thought Angels ministering to Jesus. I don't know what that means. But I'm sure it's, so this makes a lot of sense. I'm glad to, I'm glad to see this

Adam Minihan: today. So then he starts sweating blood. Which is crazy, right? Which we find out from scientifically, like that actually does happen. Yeah,

David Niles: it totally can happen.

Now, in every other case, you die. I don't know if that's true or not. Yeah, so when you sweat blood, you're not gonna live. You have reached a level of trauma for Where you, like your body is shutting down. Okay. So like the systems of your body are no longer functioning. That's why blood is oozing out of your

Adam Minihan: pores.

I don't buy that. That's fine. St. Augustine talks about it, and he says our Lord praying with bloody sweat represents the martyr, martyrdoms which flow from his whole body, Which is the church. Mm hmm. So it was like a prefigurement of showing like, listen, the blood of, of the body of the church grows necessarily through the blood

David Niles: of Christ.

Sure, totally. And of course, there's all kinds of symbolism here. But I also think that the church fathers who might say, oh that, you know, it was more of just heavy sweat. It wasn't actually blood. That's probably because the science of the time didn't know that this was actually, like, a thing that can happen.

So it was like Christ dying at every stage It was a constant death that he was living in his passion. Yeah, so it was death at every moment Okay, so because if you and I sweat blood we will die if we had been flogged the way he was flogged, we were, nobody's, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get off the, the pillar, or whatever you were tied to.

And even the mystics have revealed, like, that, has been revealed to the mystics anyway, that at the crowning of thorns, that some of those, the needles actually pierced his skull and entered his brain, okay? So, once again, you'd be dead.

Adam Minihan: Or at least not functioning well. Right,

David Niles: or you were gonna die.

Adam Minihan: you. Absolutely, yeah. So, so again, so Jesus comes back again, Right? This is the second time he goes out and prays. He comes back again, and the, and the apostles are again, asleep.

Yeah. And so, why don't you read what Origen says about this? This is the specific time of the second time that, that, that, that he comes back and they fall asleep. Here's what

David Niles: Origen says. He says, and I suppose, that the eyes of their body were not so much affected as the eyes of their mind, because the Spirit was not yet given them.

Wherefore, He does not rebuke them, but goes again and prays, teaching us that we should not faint. We should not fate. Is that right? We should not fate? F A I T? Faint, yeah. We should not faint, but should persevere in prayer until we obtain what we have begun to ask.

Adam Minihan: So, so, again, you have to go back again, right?

Augustine picks up on this. He says that our Lord prays three times because of his three fold temptation and his passion. There's three, like, they had three full, there's temptations in his passion. The first one was the temptation of curiosity opposed to the death of fear, right? Because we were just talking about this.

The fear of death. The fear of death, right? That the body and the soul, the soul gets weary when the body and soul

David Niles: have Yeah, death is abhorrent. Right. And get weary, like That the soul and body would be separated, right? It was never part of the plan.

Adam Minihan: And there's a We're not made that way. And the temptation of curiosity there, right?

And even in a negative sense. Right,

David Niles: a depraved

Mm hmm. So there's a temptation there, obviously. Super messed up. Right. And then the desire for pleasure as opposed to the fear of pain. Yeah. So there's three times in which he goes back and prays and St. Augustine picks up on this and says like he's actually, Reinforcing, I guess, for these three things.

David Niles: Interesting. I'm so glad people like him are St.

Adam Minihan: Hilary has it. Why don't you read the next one? What St. Hilary talks about, because he talks about the three as well.

David Niles: Giving me the long ones here? Alright, St. Hilary. And whereas, when he returned and found them sleeping, he rebukes them the first time. The second time says nothing.

But the third time, when he shall come in his glory, he shall restore them to quietness and confidence. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah.

Adam Minihan: Like, the three times. So, again, we see the Lord coming back and He rebukes him and says, Hey, stay awake. Huh. Can you not stay awake with me for one hour? Yeah. Which haunts me all the time.

In adoration. In adoration. When you're there for an hour. Right. It haunts me all the time. And the second time, He sees him, again, back asleep, doesn't say anything. He goes back and prays again. And the third time, He says take rest. The hour has

David Niles: come. Mm hmm. I think He says, like, are you still taking your rest?

It is enough. Yeah. He says something like that. The hour has

David Niles: Yeah, I like how he tied that into after the resurrection, you know, how, because that's, you know, after the resurrection, how we should be.

Before the resurrection is how we are, right? And so even afterwards, It's a recognition that even as we should be there is still an element of journeying and growth Right that even if we're not perfect yet, that doesn't mean that we're not on the right way

Adam Minihan: The last thing I want to talk about at least that I have here on my notes is St.

David Niles: like, kind of all the St.

Catharines are pretty great.

Adam Minihan: Drexel? Macaulay?

David Niles: I mean, they're all like, if you're a St. Catharine, like, you're doing pretty good. Yeah,

Adam Minihan: exactly. Yeah, so so apparently, the Lord gave St. Catharine the, like, the vision of what he experienced during the agony in the garden. Mm. Like, like showed her like this is this is what happened.

Yeah, which would be

David Niles: Terrifying. Yeah, that's it. That's exactly what I was sitting here going like I don't want that. Yeah

Adam Minihan: Out of all the graces Lord out of all the great graces. Can I

David Niles: pick something else?

Adam Minihan: Oh, mr. Sign me up. Yeah. Yeah,

David Niles: exactly Exactly, that's what I That's what I mean!

Adam Minihan: So she, she recants it.

Cause this is something that people talk about all the time, right? Oh, the Lord just didn't want to actually do this. Yeah. Right, that he, he, he asked the Lord, he asked God the Father To not have to die. To not have to die. Yeah. Which is something that is very reasonable as a human being

David Niles: to ask. If I were him.

Right. I would at least, like, give it

Adam Minihan: a run. Yeah, and he said, but not my will. Right. But, but thy will. I'm just gonna

David Niles: check. Right. Like, hey, I'm still on board, whatever you think. However,

Adam Minihan: if it's

David Niles: like, Possible here? I don't know. But this is,

Adam Minihan: St. Catherine says, this is not what he asked. That's not what he's

David Niles: saying.

Yeah. Okay.

From his having something more to suffer.

David Niles: So he was saying, like, please, let it be now. Right. That was not the Father's will. Right. You know, it's still very interesting because Again, this is This

Adam Minihan: is, you don't have to believe this at all, this is private revelation, and so this is something you'd be in complete great standing with the church and not believe this at all.

Yeah,

David Niles: Siena. But you have to say that. Yeah. Well. Yes. It is interesting, though, that, you know, because the hypostatic union is just one of those things that comes with a lot of mystery for us. That

There's

David Niles: opportunity for material heresy. Oh gosh, there's like some great opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not formal. We would never do, we'd never that. Look, but material heresy happens, okay? It just sometimes, sometimes it, you, you, you're in the game long enough, it happens. It happens. Okay? Not,

Adam Minihan: Not, not intentionally.

I

David Niles: mean, look at St. Patrick, okay?

Adam Minihan: That's

David Niles: modalism, Patrick! Yeah, but just the idea of Of Christ, what he knew, okay, like, because sometimes it seems pretty clear he's saying this, like, from the perspective of his human nature. Mm hmm. Because, and he's, you know, it's like, okay, he's probably saying this for our benefit.

He's saying this so we hear him say it. Because, to me, it's like, well, don't you know the Father's will?

Adam Minihan: Hey, also, if he's a, if Peter, James, and John keep falling asleep How do they know what he said? Yeah, how Yes! How do they know? That's

Oh, I think so. I mean, especially in Luke. I mean the whole like first couple chapters of Luke.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean like it's like How do you know this without Mary giving insight?

David Niles: Yeah, because Joseph was dead before he began his public ministry, right?

Adam Minihan: Also, Mary and John You know, Mary told

David Niles: St. John. Oh yeah, like, so Mary's, Mary's input in the gospel is huge.

Right. So, like, maybe she was there, quietly in the background, like always, you know. It's like, well, after you guys fell asleep, I thought I should really meditate on these things in my heart that my son, that my beautiful, perfect son was saying. My pierced heart. You're right, exactly. And While it pained me greatly that you didn't hear them yourself, I'm overjoyed to share them with you now.

Adam Minihan: So it's like, well I'm so disappointed in you that you weren't here to hear this yourself. I'm so ecstatic that I get to tell you about

David Niles: it. Out of the immense love for you that I share because of my, because of my son. Because my son loves you and I share that love with him. Right. For you. I was so sad that you missed out on these beautiful words that my son said.

Praise the Lord that you're able to receive them now from a vessel so unworthy as myself.

So like, she had to, like, I don't know, I don't know about this particular scene. Anyway, good question. If they're asleep, how do they know? Maybe the angel who was ministering To

Adam Minihan: Jesus. Or maybe he wasn't, they weren't actually physically asleep. Maybe. Like what the saints were

David Niles: actually talking about. Maybe.

Plot

Mm hmm. May he not die.

David Niles: Yeah, I mean, it seems like that's what he says, especially once you know about it. Like, if you've read about the fourth cup. Right, and he knows what's going to happen. What the cup is, right, is that the fourth cup comes, is associated with the paschal sacrifice. Right, and so he knows.

Adam Minihan: The death of the lamb. Right, and he knows, I'm the lamb, I'm the feast of the lamb, right? Right. You know, like, and so, in my mind, that's what always, I gravitated towards. Sure.

David Niles: You know, and once again, I think that there's a both and here. That on a human level, does he want to die? No, he doesn't want to die.

Why? Because. That's part, it is ingrained into our nature. Yes, so. Inescapable. However. That you don't

Adam Minihan: want to die. However, in martyrdom, you know, like, you actually do want to die. But

Adam Minihan: to die. But this is what happens, like, whenever your wife, you know, is over there and you know the dishes need to be done and you don't want to get up and go do them.

I never want to do the dishes. But you, but you choose to get up and go do them anyway, right? You're choosing a death of yourself to go do that. And so if you train yourself to do these things, When the big martyrdom comes again, this is why like it's so interesting to me that as we're going through excess 90 and we're doing the you know, cold showers and people act like I can't I just can't do the cold showers And then but the same guys we'll sit there and say like, oh yeah, if I would die for my faith, and it's like, hold on, time out.

You, you're not willing to take a cold shower for 45 seconds? Yeah. But you're willing to, to die for your

Adam Minihan: Before she was done brushing her teeth. Same here, same here, that happens to me a lot, yeah.

Dude, I've, I've gotten the science of cold showers down pretty well, yeah. I am in and out with under, like, I think, I don't know. I'm not under

David Niles: 30 seconds. I feel good about where I am in my cold shower routine.

Adam Minihan: And that's saying something because I have a lot more hair than you. Yeah. Which takes a lot more time to wash and get the

David Niles: soap out.

I think you and I have slightly different approaches, that's okay. But, the thing about the martyrs, you know, and Christ. To say, I think that if we're going to totally discount, His desire not to die. I think that we risk, you know, you kind of end up in a place And I'm not saying that's what these saints are doing Because these are just excerpts from their writings, right?

Adam Minihan: So you risk the human nature?

And so Christ is gonna share that hatred for death in his own person. Sure. So yes, part of it is, I do think he didn't want to die because he's human. Of course, he knew he came to die. He wanted, of course, you know, just like the martyrs who pursue a higher good, he, of course, Christ is doing this, knowing full well the glory and goodness of his mission.

Sure. And so, in that way, he desired it, but still simultaneously, because of his, his nature, didn't want it, right? He, or, or had an aversion towards it.

Adam Minihan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, some kind of like pushback, right? Yeah, there's this, this natural like, Eugh, I don't want

You should fast more. Well, maybe I should, but No,

Adam Minihan: no, no. You should.

David Niles: I will. Or something. You know what? You should fast more. I,

Adam Minihan: I, I've started doing that with friends. Like, when they talk about fasting, I was like, Hey, dude, you should fast more. In fact, I've been meaning to tell you. You should fast more. Yeah. And just see what happens. I, I did this with another buddy actually this

David Niles: week.

Punched you right in the face. Yeah, we were like,

Adam Minihan: we were just talking, and he was like, yeah, I was fasting, and I was like, hey. You should fast more. And he's like, yeah, I should. And I was like, no, no, no. And I like, I mean, like a lot, like, I like, I like, I gave the, the whole dramatic set like pauses. Right.

It's like, no, no, no.

You should fast

Adam Minihan: no, no, no. And you go down and you, you make the sign of the cross.

David Niles: No, no, no. Wait. Yeah. No. Yeah. More. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot more.

That's what I'm, I'm being told. More.

Adam Minihan: More. Yeah.

David Niles: It could work. Yeah. So I only recently found out that a human being actually 40, like, eat no food for 40 days. I didn't know, and that 40 days is considered like the early range of death. So, like, that's the, that's like the lower limit of when you will start to die.

Is 40 days. Hmm. I always took Christ's. I thought it was like

Adam Minihan: seven or eight.

Adam Minihan: You can go without water. You can go a long time. But without

David Niles: food. No, you can only go, you can only go like three days without water.

Adam Minihan: Without water, right. Yeah, but without food. I thought it was like seven or eight days.

You

David Niles: can no. So, according to a homily, I heard, okay, so, that's my source, my source is a homily from a deacon, okay, I think he's a good, which does not rule out Pope Francis, no, cause he's still a deacon, yeah no, but there was, it wasn't Pope Francis, it was not Pope Francis but he was saying how, Cardinal Burke, the lower limit of death, just joking, is 40 days, and so.

If you just, and obviously it depends on who you are. If you've got a little bit if you're carrying a little bit more, if you're carrying a little bit more soft flesh around, yeah, you can, you can make it longer if, if you're, if you're a, like a, an athlete. If you, if you're walking around at like 7 percent body fat.

Which

Adam Minihan: prefects nature, the more nature that you have.

He probably ate nothing. Which would be crazy. What's the longest you've ever gone without eating?

Oh,

Adam Minihan: no food at all. Zero. I think just a hair over 24 hours.

David Niles: So, in high school, did you have Coughlin in high school? Yeah. Did you have to do the fasting thing? Remember, he, he, part of his like, junior level class. was that you went 48 hours, a whole 48 hours without eating. So I had him, and I made it, I almost made it.

I was so close, and I, and before we got to, before we got to class, I was like, give me one of those donuts. I was so hungry. And

Adam Minihan: I ate one. It's interesting how, how your will, like, what your will

David Niles: does. Oh, dude. Dude. Yeah, and but that's I mean, that's the longest I've ever gone. But

Adam Minihan: I've gone, I've gone crazy amounts of times on very little food.

David Niles: Yeah, but a little bit of food actually goes a long way. So

David Niles: You were, you were a lot bigger

Adam Minihan: back then. Yeah. When I, when I walked into the wrestling room I was like 178 and I wrestled at 152. That's a big, like that is, that's for my senior year. And that's, that's a, that's a lot of weight, you know, 30 pounds is a lot of weight. And so I would go, you know, multiple days.

David Niles: Just a little bit of food. Just

Adam Minihan: like a hair, you know, just a

David Niles: little bit of food. It goes, but it can go a long way. I mean. Yeah, but it's just, it's

Adam Minihan: not fun. Yeah, it's not easy. But,

David Niles: Yeah. Anyway, I just thought that was interesting. That is interesting, yeah. Once again, Another example of Christ basically going to death.

Yeah. Embracing, like, that death is this companion of his. Yeah. That he's walking around with. Yeah. And, and,

David Niles: what he's here for. Right. Well, he came to conquer that. Yeah. And we don't have to get into this today, but Let's get into it. No, I'm just kidding.

Of all of the Sorrowful Mysteries Yeah? The one that I think would be the hardest. Not that it's the most painful, by any means. But I just think the hardest would be the carrying of the cross. From a physical aspect? No. Because the, all of the other ones, just from a natural level, are being done to him.

Okay, you're, you're tied to a post, and you're being, you're being lashed. Mm hmm. You're being crucified. Not the agony of the garden. The Agony in the Garden is like, he's not, like, okay, well, like, hey, he's dealing with rejection. Yeah. It's, it's just happening to him, okay? He just loves, and you, and you, the reason

Adam Minihan: is There's a difference, there A difference in the Agony of the Garden, like, compared to, like, the Scourging of the Pillar, or things like that, because, like, he can leave in the Agony of the Garden.

Well, right, but

Whereas, like, when you're on the cross, someone's holding your hand down and driving a nail through your hand, okay? Like, it was his decision. That's totally bad. Totally. But it's a, it's a distinction. Totally bad. Totally bad. I said totally. It, todos. It means completely. Okay? Okay. Means that there's, it's all there.

Complete. All the badness is there. When you're carrying that cross, you know, it's up to you. Yeah. To will yourself to take that next step, which is a totally different thing. Yeah. It'd be so hard

Adam Minihan: to do. Physically, mentally, psychologically, yeah,

Like, time will pass and it will be over. The only way to get the carrying of the cross over is for you to make yourself take another step and then another step, you know, and like, you are the only one who can accomplish this task.

Adam Minihan: Completely dehydrated and like, with lots

David Niles: of blood. After having, right.

Been sweating blood been, like, basically whipped to death, and

Adam Minihan: then thorns in your brain. And 24 hours after, like, having anything to eat. Yeah,

David Niles: yeah, nothing to eat or drink. Yeah. And, like, oh, yeah. And, and, like, still getting whipped along the way. Anyway, that's just

Adam Minihan: Yeah, I think, yeah. I just So, let me ask you this.

David Niles: so, I do. I would say really think about what's your schedule look like.

Okay because the once again, if you really think about it, everything we've talked about today is this association between activities and the soul. That Jesus is doing something that you're doing. And what does that mean for, like, his interior disposition, right? That there is these different senses of Scripture, right?

And basically those different senses of Scripture are all being played out in the person of Christ as he's going through the Gospels, right? And so those same principles apply to us in our daily life. So, it's Holy Week. Think about your schedule. This is this is just, this is my opinion. This is not the week for having people over.

Not everybody has the luxury of being able to take Good Friday off. If, if you have the time, vacation time, take Good Friday off every year, put it on your calendar. Okay. We don't work on Good Friday for those of us who can. Some people don't have a choice. Right. Right. But we just, we, we want to do what we can during Holy Week.

That way we can make ourselves present at the liturgies that happen. Attend, you want to attend all the liturgies this week. All that are available. The chrism, if you have small children, the chrism mass can be maybe a challenge. This is like an hour and a half, two hours long. Yeah, and sometimes it's late in the evening.

All of the shortcomings we have every day. Okay, John Paul the second went to confession every day and Probably like way better than us, way better than you, you know, whoever you are So that that's what I would say is lean into the sacraments Really think about your schedule this week And what is essential as we really want to take advantage of the graces that Holy Week brings us offers to us and this ponderance, because doing Holy Week well will be the key ingredient to doing Easter well, okay?

We're not a, we're not a Holy Week people. We're actually an Easter people, okay? We're not all about Holy Week. Holy Week though is essential to understanding the goodness of Easter. And because we're so into Easter, we need to do Holy Week well.

Adam Minihan: That's right. Yeah, that was going to be my suggestion as well, is like, make sure to try to take off a good Friday.

David Niles: yeah you know, compromise, half day on Holy Thursday. Holy Thursday. I think that's a, however you

Adam Minihan: want, however, whatever you can do, but, but like and, and really like go to the station at the cross at 3 p. m. on Fridays have Friday look different in your home.

David Niles: That's what I was trying to get at right there is that the whole week should be different. That's what I meant. Look at your schedule. I'm glad you said, said it that way. That's obvious. It's pretty obvious way to put it. But you nailed it.

Adam Minihan: Why do it the obvious way when you do it the roundabout way? Right.

Like John Paul

David Niles: II. Okay, he was always doing that. John Paul, get to the point! But yes, this week should be different from all the other weeks. Your kids should know it's different. Like this is not a week for dessert. This is, this is a week of austerity. Right? And it should be a penitential week. It's, it's a, and because those penances, they help us connect.

Adam Minihan: That's what I would say. I think this is good. I'm so excited to be at Easter

David Niles: people. Yeah, dude, I'm, I'm ready for it to be over. I'm excited. What an opportunity. But thy will be done.

What an opportunity. But thy will be done. To like, love the Lord. Every moment. That's right. That's right. Especially Easter.