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The Private Lender Podcast - Keith Baker 28th July 2020
PLP-108: Passive Investing: Private Lending Through Brokers And Hard Money Lenders With Jason DeBono
00:00:00 00:36:47

PLP-108: Passive Investing: Private Lending Through Brokers And Hard Money Lenders With Jason DeBono

PLP 108 | Hard Money Lenders

 

Perhaps nothing could be as passive as letting others do the work for you. When it comes to passive investing, the easiest way to get into private lending is to loan your money to a hard money lender and allow them to do their magic. Guest, Jason DeBono from NuView Trust Company, is someone who uses this as his own personal strategy, and he sits down with host, Keith Baker, to share his whys and hows with us. He explains his process from having the money in a self-directed IRA to making contact with the hard money lender or brokers, as well as some of his investment strategies in terms of self-directed IRA and cryptocurrencies. Plus, Jason then provides a couple of great wisdom and advice on working with lenders and borrowers and how to have more skin in the game.

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Listen to the podcast here:

 

Passive Investing: Private Lending Through Brokers And Hard Money Lenders With Jason DeBono

Our topic is one that I'm ashamed to say I haven't covered in the last hundred episodes or so, but that gets changed. I've often said the easiest way to get into private lending is to loan your money to a hard money lender. Let them do all the work, find the borrowers, vet the deals, look at the numbers, look at the properties, service the loans, make the payments. You're not going to get as much interest or points. You're not going to make as much but then at the same time, this is getting passive because you're not doing as much either. You're letting that hard money lender make the decisions, do those works, vet the deals, and tell the borrower, “No,” or “We'll do the deal, but you’ve got to have more money and more skin in the game.” I interview Jason DeBono from NuView Trust Company and this is exactly his own personal strategy. I'm going to let him discuss it but it's like the truncated version of what I've been spitting out for the last hundred episodes. Without further ado, let's go ahead and get into the interview with Jason DeBono.

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Jason, welcome to the show.

It’s good to be here.

How are you? How's it over in Florida?

As everyone else, we're all adjusting and adapting to the new normal but all is well, thankfully.

I hope you guys are staying safe. How is NuView Trust handling Corona? Are you allowing people and customers into the office? How's that working? Is it all online?

Our business is nationwide. A fair bit of business comes into our office. It's a small amount. Even before the state shutdown, we had already closed our office to visitors. I've been working through getting people working from home. In our business, because of the line of work that we're in, there are too many things. We can't let the whole office go home. There are unfortunately too many things that come into our office like checks, mail, and stuff that has sensitive client information. We want to make sure that we're protecting our clients. We've got a good office building here that we can space out in. We’re taking all the recommended precautions and then a little bit more to try to keep the place spread out.

I love using self-directed IRAs for private lending. I do a lot of it myself. You let someone else do the legwork for you which I want to hear about. Please explain how your process goes from having the money in your self-directed IRA or making contact with that hard money lender, looking at the deal and flowing through the transaction. If you can start with that. 

My time is spent overseeing the business and that takes a significant chunk of my time. I don't always have time to go out and pound the pavement and be out in the marketplace to find deals directly. I've done this for many years. I've got about 6 or 8 different groups that are in the lending business that are bright and do what they say they're going to do. I let them source the deals for me. I make it known that, “I've got retirement money. If you've got a deal that you don't have the funds for, but you still want to broker it and make the money off of it, I'm happy to be a lender.” My approach, and I can't speak to everyone that this is the best approach, but I trade interest for points.

Anytime there's a loan that exists out there, either it's been written and they want to sell it and recoup the cash or it hasn’t been written and they want to originate it and they need someone to have the money to do that. I have no problem giving up any of the points upfront for the right to own the loan and own the interest. It keeps me from having to go out and do the legwork. It cost me a few percentage points of potential value upfront. In my IRA, if I can have someone TIMI up loans at 8% to 14% time and time again, I can cherry-pick out the ones I want to do and say no to the ones I don't easily. I find it to be an effective strategy.

[bctt tweet="There's a lot of money that you can sock away. Many people miss opportunities because they don't look for it." username=""]

You're getting between 8% and 14% on your interest rates.

Rarely, I've done under 8%. It's a strong deal, shorter-term and there may be some additional value like an equity kicker at the end or something. I'm a believer in making the deal work. While about 80% of the deals I've done are all through a broker. About 20% of the loans that I've done have been direct. If the deal works better at 5% interest, I don’t want to make 5%, but I don't mind 5% interest if I'm getting 10% of the deal on the backend or some equity kicker participation. There's always a way to structure a deal. At the end of the day, if we can't structure it, we'll move on and find another deal. We're flexible in the way that we participate. I like to keep the risk low and I like to keep the opportunity as steady as possible.

How long are your notes normally when you loan out?

It’s almost always a year. I don't know if this is the right approach but anytime that the loans extend, I do offer an extension and add a clause. Even if it's someone else's loan that I'm purchasing and I keep the points on any extension. If you want to extend for at the same terms. I usually do extensions in 3 to 6 months tranches. I'll do them at 1% for each extension. If you want to extend for three more months, it's 1% and then I get to keep that point.

Your hard money lenders, do you know what their points are? You said you let them have the points because that's how they're going to make their money in the churn of turning the deals through of the points you're going to get the interest. Do you know how they're getting paid or how much percentage-wise? 

Typically, 3% to 5% is what I see. As the world gets a little bit more competitive, in 2010, 2011, 2012, we’re here in Florida. We were writing loans at 3 to 5 points and 14% interest regularly because the deals were cheap and the numbers worked. As these deals get more expensive and there's more money out in the marketplace to lend, terms naturally compress a little bit. We're seeing regularly 2 and 10 down the middle of the plate deals. That's what I've seen. There are still some 3 to 4-point deals and 11% to 12% interest deals out there. It depends on the nature of the deal or the background of the investor.

These year-long notes, are these rehab loans or acquisition and seasoning? What type of the use of property are you loaning on? 

Almost always rehab properties. Probably 90% fall into that category because they tend to be shorter-term in nature and there tends to be a higher opportunity. I did a loan and I wish I could go back and write about twenty of these. It was in the year 2010. It was a loan that someone kept for five years and they paid 14%. It was unbelievable, but they bought this property at a steal. The rent was through the roof and they figured, "Even at 14%, I might as well keep renting this thing.” They were making a premium even after paying me. I love that deal. The only reason that it ended was the individual that bought it got caught in the market and they had terrible credit. They had to give back some properties. They had to wait this five-year period to finance the property out, where they were willing to give them a loan. They refinance out. They made a ton of money. I made a ton of money over it. I was getting a point every year in between and I was getting 14%. The borrower never missed a payment. It was a unicorn of a deal without a doubt.

You’ve got to love that. You keep getting 14% and pull some points here and there at the same time. I could see why you'd want a ton of those notes sitting into your portfolio.

Especially a tax evading account like an IRA.

[caption id="attachment_2958" align="aligncenter" width="600"]PLP 108 | Hard Money Lenders Hard Money Lenders: There's nothing that prevents you from making international investments. Sky's the limit in this self-directed account.[/caption]

 

Especially with the Corona, COVID and everything, and the $3 trillion that got pumped. It is my mission in life to convert everything over to my Roth IRA. I'm of the mind tax my seeds, not my crop because my crop will be much bigger in the future if I do my due diligence properly in all that stuff. I'm on board with you 100% with that. I am self-employed but I'm doing it through an LLC. I'm going to set up a C corp or an S corp and then pay myself and my kids. If my kids have earned income, what can I do?

Add it to your Roth IRA.

They're up to the same amount. I told my kids, “I'll pay you minimum wage for internet research and do some mailers and stuff. I will match whatever you earn. I'll put it into your IRA because that’s legally what you can do.”

That’s a fantastic plan. I'd even take it a step further to say you could even look at potentially some health savings accounts, Coverdell Education Savings Accounts for those kids or health savings account for the family. There's a lot of money that you can suck away. Many people miss opportunities because they don't look for it. You're doing a fantastic job. You're going to help your kids. Forget about the money they have. You're going to teach them the power of compound growth and that's what keeps the wealthy more wealthy.

Was it Einstein who said that compound interest was the eighth wonder of the world? Leave it alone and watch it grow. That's my strategy. That's what I suggest people do if they can. If they're in a tax situation, to go ahead and start moving everything over little by little into Roth, pay a little now. I've been making my conversions little by little as the deals come through. It's not a huge tax burden. It will take me a little while to switch it all over. Hopefully, I'll get to enjoy that money someday but if not, then it will be passed down to the kids. That’s how the wealthy stay wealthy. That's the whole point. You're doing mostly flips. You're out in Florida. Is that a deed of trust or a mortgage state?

It is a mortgage state.

My understanding with a deed of trust is there are three parties. There's the lender, the borrower, and then there's the trustee that holds title until the contract is complete. There's no third party in Florida with the mortgage state then. It's just the borrower and the lender. Does the lender retain title until the loan is paid off? 

No. The title is held by the property owner which would be the borrower, but there's a lien on that title until it's satisfied. Once it's satisfied, satisfaction of mortgage is sent over to the County and then the lien itself is removed from that property.

It's similar then. It's just the terminology and semantics. You are nationwide.

We have clients in all 50 states. We've got international clients that live internationally and clients that even invest internationally. An IRA is a domestic product but there's nothing that prevents you from making international investments. Sky's the limit in the self-directed account.

[bctt tweet="Quality goes out the window when they're free. We care about quality when we pay for them." username=""]

There's something else. I know we didn't speak about this but you allow investments in cryptocurrency.

We do. We're not the facilitator of the crypto investment. We're just the custodian of the entity that owns the crypto. What we do in that manner is customers come to us. They say, “I want to invest in crypto.” We'll work with them to set up an entity and LLC. The IRA will invest into the LLC, then the LLC will participate in whatever crypto platforms, storage, wallet that they choose. They'll keep track of everything. It gives the most flexibility. You're not limited to what our platform offers. Anywhere you can go to open an account, you can go set up a crypto trading platform.

Do you dabble in crypto?

I do not personally dabble. I did own some of the GBTC which is almost like a Bitcoin mutual fund type of investment. It’s publicly traded. I did buy some of that and I was fortunate to buy it at a decent price and run the wave up and then part of the way back but it was good. It's funny if you invited me to Vegas, I'd grab my wallet and you wouldn't have to even finish the sentence. I'd be on the next plane. I enjoy going and gambling, but that's where I keep my gambling. I limit it to that. If I'm there for 48 hours, I'll hit the blackjack table. I'm all about getting rich quick in that environment. Once I leave Vegas, it's not gambling anymore for me.

I'm not trashing Bitcoin or any other crypto by any stretch of the imagination. There may be a place for crypto in the long-term holding sense, but I don't like to play the short game. I know a lot of people have made a ton of money in the stock market. I'm embarrassed when I tell this story but I rarely owned stocks. When I do buy companies that have a good fundamental business. I am the guy that if you look at the COVID related drop and rise, I sold Apple, Amazon and Netflix at the very low of the market. All three are at record highs. They've all significantly blown away where they were even pre-COVID. I don't buy stocks for that reason because I don't know how to tie them up. I don't know how to tie them down.

What I do know is if I buy a loan or I invest in a loan and it's a good quality property, that's got good financial backing, and it's a good quality borrower that has a high likelihood of being successful with the deal. I'm happy to take my 8%, 10%, 12% and sometimes 14%. I leave the gambling stuff to Vegas. Even though looking back in hindsight, I'd love to still own those stocks, knowing what I know. I haven’t had to watch this game. I don't have to wake up with the stress. I'm happy with that stress and with the blackjack table. I don't need that in my everyday life. For me, it's tried and true. Private lending and passive investing are the only way that I put money to work.

I'm in line with you on the whole Vegas thing. A couple of years ago was the last time I went and for the first time in my life, I did not gamble. I walked through both the Luxor and Mandalay Bay Casinos daily and never cashed in anything. I kept walking and that was a big win for me. I'm still riding that win because normally I'm penniless. I'm asking people for money so that I can have a sandwich from friends or whatever.

Vegas will eat you alive. Everything in moderation has its point but good for you. That's a strong sense of willpower.

That's not going to happen the next time I go. I'm going to make up for the lost time. I usually start at the blackjack table, get down and then throw Hail Mary at the craps table and try to get back up. For me, it's an entertainment blowing off stress and drinking what I think is high-quality liquor when they're watering down the well stuff. 

Quality goes out the window when they're free. We care about quality when we pay for them. Vegas has it figured out if they don't take your money at the tables, they'll take more else. My philosophy is simple. In 48 hours, there's only so much damage I can do. It satisfies and scratches that itch. For most people they're scratching that itch on the Robinhood app, trying to get rich overnight because they somehow think they understand why Tesla went from being valued at $80 billion to $250 billion overnight. Somehow, they are smart enough to understand it and they're going to get rich as a result. They're all welcome to play that game. I'll take my 48 to 72-hour, lumping every now and then in Vegas and the rest of the year. Tried, true and steady is the best way to go.

[caption id="attachment_2959" align="aligncenter" width="600"]PLP 108 | Hard Money Lenders Hard Money Lenders: The eviction and foreclosure process are not about who's right. It's about following a series of bureaucratic red tape to try to get back what is rightfully yours.[/caption]

 

That's the beauty of private lending. You got a piece of property that if this thing goes tits up, there's a piece of property that you can go get and you're not going to lose everything. My first pillar of private lending is the ROI, Return Of Investment. If I'm giving out $50,000 or $100,000, first point, I want to make sure that's coming back. What's the return on the investment after that? That’s my thing and that's why I like private lending. I also like passive because you are a full-time employee of NuView Trust Company. That's your day job. The last thing you want to do is another day job flipping or running the contractors. You've got a good source of income. You maximize that and passively on the side, you take your self-directed IRA, put it into the private loans, asset-backed lending. Private lending is one of the few investment vehicles that the common man can participate in, which you can get insurance policies to protect the property.

Being here from Houston, I don't know if you've heard about this little storm called Harvey. You guys being in Florida, hanging out there in the water. Hurricanes happen. I always require flood insurance even if it's $400 or $500 a year. I always tell borrowers and flippers, “If $400 is going to break your deal, it's not a deal and I don't want to lend to you anyway.” When Harvey hit, it wasn't a typical storm like you get this massive cyclone coming up in Florida with winds. Harvey for us was tons of rain. Twenty percent of the homes affected had flood insurance. That immediately went into my criteria that day when I heard that on the local news.

On that note, I preach due diligence being that we're in the self-directed account space, especially in private lending, title insurance is required. I have many times that people have said, “I know this deal. Do you care if I don't get title insurance?” I said, “That depends. Do you care if I don't write the loan?” It protects us all: title insurance, hazard insurance, flood insurance. These are all things that are easily verified. It’s one of the things that is on my checklist for any renewal. If somebody's going to do a one-year loan and they're going to renew it, they better send me verification of hazard insurance, verification of the flood insurance if they have it. I also go onto the county's website and make sure the taxes are paid.

These things don't sound like big deals and I'm not smart. I check off a couple boxes but I've seen many deals go sideways where, “Why do I want to extend a loan for someone that hasn't paid the tax bill or their insurance has lapsed?” All that does is put me at risk but furthermore, if they can't pay the tax bill, they're not taking an extension because this is a good deal for them. They're probably taking an extension because they can't figure out how to pay me. I've learned in this business, the sooner that you act when you smell something is wrong, act.

I'm a compassionate guy. I understand things happen. “Tell me why you're late. It’s not an excuse. You’ve got one opportunity. What happened? You go to Vegas. I don't care but tell me what happened and tell me how we're going to get this back on track. If not, I am going to start the process as quickly, efficiently, and expeditiously as possible because waiting six months listening to your story is only going to ensure that I lose more money and that's not how business works.” Those are all little things I love that you talk about insurance. There are checkboxes that private lenders gloss over. I love what's behind you, “Never trust, always verify.” The quasi by Ronald Reagan, trust but verify. If you're honest as can be, prove it. That's all.

I did a cardinal sin early on. I loaned in the second position. I stuck $30,000 in the wind for eighteen months. It wasn't so much that the borrower's plans didn't work out. She called me the month before it was due. She said, “I haven't sold this property.” I looked into the foreclosure and Texas is nonjudicial, just go down and file it, simple stuff. I quickly realized that I had trusted her comps and her property value. After I went through, pay the lawyer, got this thing sold and my money back. It was going to cost me money. Therefore, my money was held hostage for an additional six months.

In those six months, I missed out on a lot of opportunity costs during that time. It wasn't that great of a deal. I did get a little bit higher interest rate. I got 13%, but I also learned don't chase interest rates. Make sure that they put more money and skin in the game. I've met a few people like, “I'm going to teach you how to get private lenders and you're not going to have any money out of your pocket.” Not with me. I will do loans like that but the LTV or Loan-To-Value has got to be below 40%. I will say, “You can borrow up to 50. Borrow that free money. I'm still in at 50%, I'm still protected. My money's still protected.” That’s one of my things.

I love skin in the game. It's easy to walk away from zero. You’ve got to have some risk. Some of the things that we've done in some loans. I don't know how valuable this is for the audiences, but we'll require escrow on some of the rehab costs, depending on how aggressive the borrower's trying to get. We'll pay out of escrow after work is completed. If you want, we have an inspector go out. It costs them $50 every time the inspector shows up and they want to take a draw. We’ll take a $100,000 loan. We may take $20,000 or $30,000, put it in escrow, and we'll give it to you as often as you want. You want to go and paint the house. If we think that's worth $1,000 and the inspector goes and says, “Yes, the house is painted.” There's $1,000 but we're going to withhold $50 of it for the inspector’s fee.

You'd be amazed of what you learn from people in that process. It causes them to put some money up. I don't do those loans because I want to avoid writing the loan. I want to do that loan because it tells me if it's worth writing a loan. If you mean to tell me that the deal is tight for you, that you can't paint the property or you can't pre-order the cabinets first without having my money, then you’ve got nothing. If this thing lasts a month longer than you think or your pro forma get slightly off track, I'm in trouble. It's a good test and that's a little bit of work and effort in managing it. It's prevented some deals and it's insured some deals panned out so that you don't take something back, that you're thinking it's going to have a nice new kitchen in it and none of the work gets done.

The last thing you want to do is find out you paid retail for a piece of crap. Unfortunately, I know some people who have it. We went down in South Houston and made a video recording. I met the borrower. He was kind enough to walk through and say, “These are my mistakes.” I took the lender down and he trusted the borrower. He ended up, at the end of the day, paying $130,000 for a house that's worth about $60,000. All the money went up front and none of the work was completed. By the time we showed up, there was nothing in the kitchen. Not only was there no new kitchen, it was gutted. Who normally holds the escrow for you guys in Florida? Is there a title company or an attorney will hold it? 

[bctt tweet="Speculation is not a bad thing when you call it speculation from the get-go." username=""]

Any of the above. In theory, anyone can hold escrow. I'm sure legally, it needs to be a title company. We always ensure the third-party. We do a lot of our deals in land trusts. There's some anonymity in a Florida land trust. There's also some value in potentially easing the foreclosure process. Technically, in a lot of our deals, the way that they're structured is it's not a foreclosure. If you don't make your payments to the land trust, you forgo your ownership of the land trust. The secondary beneficial owner of the land trust becomes the primary. If I write my loan to you and you stop making payments, you've given up your right to be the owner of that land trust. An attorney says, “These are the terms you violated them. You're no longer part of the land trust.” The next beneficial owner, which is me as the lender or a group if there are multiple lenders is now the owner. It's not completely bulletproof, but it's a cool strategy to alleviate some of the headaches that come with foreclosures.

It's like a built-in deed in lieu almost. If you don't make your payments, it's already set in the other wording of the trust.

In a typical loan, I give you the money, you have the title. I get to come and get it back if you stop paying me. In this environment, it says the land trust owns the property, the beneficial owner of the land trust is you as long as you do all the things that the agreement says you will do. If you fail to do those things, you're no longer the rightful owner of the land trust and the secondary owners take over. It doesn't mean that there can't be some legal battle. You could certainly go out and file a lawsuit. What I found over the years is that most people, when they know they've screwed up, when they know they can't pay, and especially if an attorney is the one telling them that, “You've got one more month to make current or you're going to forfeit your ownership in this land trust.” They realize if I don't do it, there's probably not much course at that point. They don't have the financial means to go out and hire an attorney. Not that it would do them any good, but to try to stall the process. The eviction and foreclosure process is not about who's right. It's about following a series of bureaucratic red tape to try to get back what is rightfully yours.

I'm pro-business. I understand people have problems. Every good leader should work with their borrowers and every good borrower should work with their lenders. It's a two-way street. Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works. When you find good borrowers and they do what they say they're going to do and they protect your interests at all costs, those are the people that I want to write loans to all day long you. You find that there are a lot of those people out there. You don't have to go chase yield. I'm perfectly happy at 8% writing a loan to someone that I've done twelve loans for. I know that even if this deal goes sideways, this person is going to scrape their couch cushion to make me whole. There's not a chance in hell they're not going to pay me unless things have gotten worse. They'll pick up the phone and tell me that well before they get to that point. It is a business and you’ve got to treat it like a business. Good customers deserve preferential treatment and if you're running a good business, there's no place for bad customers.

Back to your Vegas analogy and keeping your risk at the table in the investment side. It's conservative. It’s the tortoise and the hare. I'll take the tortoise all day long because to your point about that embarrassing story about getting out of the stock market. Did you make money?

Compared to what I could have made, I yielded a positive return. There's no possible way I could have known what was going to happen or had any control. Looking back, it’s like saying, “I should have held this longer.” It's no different than saying, “I pulled my chips off the table and there were three Blackjacks in a row.” It doesn't matter what happened after you left. What happened while you were there?

You're still positive. That’s a good thing.

I'm not a proud stock investor. I'm not a good stock investor. That's why I only buy a few stocks and when it gets to be volatile, I'm out of there. I want nothing to do with it. It's not my cup of tea.

A friend of mine texted me and he has quite a bit of money. He pays someone to do a stock trading for him. I jokingly said, “What did you buy?” He hit the list, "I got into some Uber, Apple, Google, Boeing. Once Boeing had bankrupt and the government said they're going to protect Boeing, I'm like, “This is not capitalism.” I’ll just put my money in this and let the government fund it. I just piggyback. I’m definitely up. It’s through no genius or discerning mental capabilities that I have. My buddy was doing it. It sounded like a good idea. Someone who does this for a living told him to do it. I was like, “If this is better than throwing a dart, at least there's somebody who's done some due diligence. I haven't, but somebody's done it." It worked out and I don't feel bad. I bought a $4 stock. I sold half of it at $12. I sold the rest of it at $24 and went to $180. We split three ways and went back up to $150, we split twice. Once you're off the table, it doesn't matter.

You then get to look at what you did with the money. The market is hard. My biggest issue with investing and my philosophy is I need to understand when I make money and how, so I can do more of it. I need to understand when I lose money and why, so I can stop doing more of it. There's nothing in the market. If you asked me what I did right or did wrong, I would say, “I don't know.” As much as I'd rather be lucky than good in life, that's not how I invest. Going back to Bitcoin, I'm happy that someone told me about it. I probably would have never heard of it. I bought some and it went way up. I sold a good portion of it. I made some money. I don't even look at what it went up to or what it's gone down to. I could keep playing that game, buying and selling and trying to ride the wave up and ride the wave down. I don't have the patience and certainly not the skillset. Most importantly, I don't have the blood pressure medication to manage through that process. I like to stay in my lane. I like to know what someone's going to pay me in advance. I like to know what my downside risk is. I like to know I've got protection. I like to know if I'm successful at this, I can do it again, rinse and repeat. That's a good feeling.

[caption id="attachment_2960" align="aligncenter" width="600"]PLP 108 | Hard Money Lenders Hard Money Lenders: Every good leader should work with their borrowers, and every good borrower should work with their lenders.[/caption]

 

You do 12, 10 loans with somebody, that's a true private lender. I love how people say, “I'm a private lender or a hard money lender.” You're just marrying people or whatever. It's semantics. I know we're splitting hairs, but at the same time, that to me is a true private lender. You have a personal relationship with somebody. I've got guys that I will agree to the loan on the phone. They’ve got to send me everything, but I'll go ahead. Don't tell me about it. I trust them. I know their business. They've been doing it a lot longer. They went through 2008 so they're seasoned as an investor and they'll provide me everything. I've got one guy, I haven't loaned to him in a while. He's gone more into the commercial space in wholesaling. I call him and, “You’ve got to do something.” He’s like, “I'm wholesaling.” I'm like, “I’ve got money. Your LTVs are out of sight. I will loan to you day in and day out.” He's keeping in mind and he’s looking like everyone else we're waiting for the bottom of the dropout so we can get in on some good deals. Having that relationship, being able to say, “I'll do the loan.” I'll still vet it. I'll look at the numbers. I'll run my own comps for example. Having that in your back pocket is such a powerful tool for a real estate investor. Having that investor and you as a lender is a very powerful tool. 

It’s a win-win and those are the best kind of deals.

Tell us a little bit about NuView Trust. How we can get ahold of you or learn more about your self-directed IRAs and the crypto. I'm not going to lie. I’m going to have to scratch that itch. For me, crypto is pure speculation but I want to put a little something out there.

Speculation is not a bad thing when you call it speculation from the get-go. In Florida, we like to fish. There's nothing wrong with throwing that big old hunk of bait out there that you know 9 out of 10 times, it's probably not going to do you any good, but the 1 out of 10 times it does, it could be good. I'm with you. There's a place for speculation and as long as it's a small insignificant piece of your portfolio, everybody should have a couple of big lines out in the water. NuView Trust, we're custodian. We hold retirement accounts that hold private lending and any other variety of non-public investment. We've been in business. We've got a nearly $1.5 billion under custody. We've been there, done that.

We’re a South Dakota chartered trust company. We've got our compliance office in South Dakota from overall corporate compliance. We then have our administrative office, which handles more of the day-to-day operational activities with our customers, which is based out of Florida. The easiest way to find us is the web, NuViewTrust.com with a chock-full of information. We got a ton of events and educational content, some recorded, some upcoming. That's all posted there, so take a look. We’re happy to help have these discussions on a one-on-one basis with our team. If you think it's something that makes sense, we can walk you through how it works and give you the pros and cons, and let you make a decision if it's the right tool for you.

Jason, thank you for coming on. I have to come to Florida. I like fishing myself. Maybe if I do open up a crypto account with you guys, maybe we can go come on a Friday. We can go fishing early Saturday. I might be a private lender but I'm 100% redneck. I love the outdoors.

You'll fit in great down here with us. Anytime you want to come down, come set up your account and we'll use it as a cheap excuse to get out in the water.

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I want to thank Jason DeBono from NuView Trust Company for coming on the show and sharing his time with us and his insight as well. For more information about Jason and NuView Trust Company, please head over to the PrivateLenderPodcast.com. I don't charge money for the show, but I do ask that you please help spread the word and increase awareness by leaving an honest rating and review over at iTunes, Google Podcast or whatever platform you are using to hear my voice. An honest rating and review is the fastest and most effective way you can help contribute to the show. I'd also appreciate it if you did. Until we meet again, please stay safe, healthy and free. I also wish you safe and prosperous private lending. I'll catch you on the next episode.

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About Jason DeBono

PLP 108 | Hard Money LendersNuView Trust Vice President

Jason graduated from the University of Central Florida and has since acquired 15-years of experience in the self-directed IRA industry. He has served as both Director of Business Development and Director of Operations for NuView Trust Company – a self-directed custodian with over $1.4 billion of assets under custody. Now, in his role as Corporate Vice President, Jason oversees the day to day activities of the company. He is heavily recruited to speak on podcasts and at national events as a subject matter expert in tax-advantaged investing through retirement accounts. Additionally, Jason has provided continuing education to CPAs, Attorneys, and Real Estate professionals and has been a guest speaker at hundreds of investment events and conferences throughout the United States.

Outside of his role at NuView, Jason serves as Co-founder and Chairman of Chair the Love, a 501(c)(3) organization, which provides wheelchairs and other mobility-related services to those in need.

He currently resides in Central Florida with his wife, Christina, son, Tyler, and daughter, Delaney.

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