On our 200th episode, Stephan chats with Esther Judge-Lennox. Esther is the Founder of Shacks on Racks. Shacks on Racks helps connect homeowners thinking about removing a home or structure from their land with people who could make use of a relocated home or outbuilding on their own property.  

In this episode, Esther shares what it was like to move to Moran, WY while in High School. She goes into her inspiration for starting Shacks on Racks and the process she goes through to find new homes. Stephan then shares his family’s story of how Shacks on Racks helped move their home to help out another community member. Esther and Stephan then talk about some of the other homes Shacks have helped relocate and some of the unexpected hurdles they have faced. 

Find out more about Esther and Shacks on Racks at ShacksOnRacks.com. Don’t forget to join their email newsletter to find out when new homes are available. 

Follow Stephan and his family on Instagram @buildinginthehole22 to see their experience of living in a camper for the summer as they give their home away to build a new home. 

This week’s episode is sponsored in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, announcing the new commercial Curb to Compost Program for restaurants and other commercial food waste generators. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram

Support also comes from The Jackson Hole Wine Club. Curating quality wine selections delivered to you each month. Enjoy delicious wines at amazing prices. More at JacksonHoleWineClub.com

Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com,@thatsamoeri)

You are tuned into the Jackson hole, connection, sharing, fascinating stories of people connected to Jackson Hole.

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Everyone, I enjoy reading and learning from others, which guides me to share this quote with you before we begin today's episode, today's quote is you have the power over your mind.

Not outside events realize this, and you will find strength.

That's from Marcus Aurelius.

And today is the 200th episode of the Jackson hole Connection.

And I promise you, the episodes are gonna keep on coming for as long as people wanna share their stories with me and share their stories with you.

When I started the Jackson Hole Connection, I knew there's an endless pool people to speak with who have a connection to Jackson Hole with phenomenal stories to share.

But I did not even think about how many episodes the podcast would reach.

I had no inclination.

The reason I continue to produce this podcast is I hear from people how much they appreciate the interviews and how they learned something new from listening to the guests and folks.

Learn something new.

Each time I interview the guests for this podcast, I learn how to be a more thoughtful and engaged listener.

I've learned how to ask better questions, questions of curiosity, questions, which help me learn and be a better, person, a better dad, better husband, better business community member.

And I've learned I can make a positive change in people's lives.

The small changes.

That we make can influence a seismic shift in our communities.

you have the ability to make a difference in the lives of each person.

You touch me saying that I know that I can make a difference is not me being.

Bigger or better than anybody else.

We all make a difference in people's lives with the people we come in contact with, with the cashier at a store, when you're going to get gas or a soda, when you're grabbing ice cream, tell somebody thank you for being there.

It will put a smile on their face.

Everything big, started off small.

Just think of the grand canyon time is on your side folks.

So use your time to your fullest position.

Thank you for sharing your time with me today and over the past 200 episodes.

And today on episode 200, I am delighted to speak with Esther Judge of Shacks on Racks, my wife and I recently had the pleasure of working with Esther to find a new home for our home, a home, which would not go to the landfill.

Esther started Shacks on Racks by identifying a need.

She didn't look at what isn't being done as a roadblock, but as an opportunity.

You will thoroughly enjoy listening to Esther.

Esther is a high energy free thinking individual and sit back and relax, enjoy what you're doing.

Have fun on your walk.

And I know that you're gonna appreciate what Esther has to say.

Esther.

Thank you for joining me here today on the Jackson Hole Connection.

Wonderful to see you on a sunny afternoon.

Yes.

Thank you very much for having me Stephan.

You're welcome.

Esther, we start the episodes with the guest and that is you today and you and I have spoken many times and neither of us are short of words.

and we'll get in a little bit as far as, how our paths crossed.

But let's start with you sharing your history.

where were you born?

Where were you raised?

And, how did you get connected to this area?

We called Jackson hole.

Yeah, absolutely.

I was born in Dillon Montana.

Mm-hmm I grew up about 30 miles outside of there in a town called Archna.

There was like maybe five families that lived up there, including my cousins.

so just really, really small, small, small community.

in 1998, Ted Turner donated the row mansion.

He bought red rocks, ranch, right outside south of Dillon and he, donated the homestead that was on that I saw some square foot stately home built in the early 19 hundreds.

which is it's currently their admin building.

It it's proud on the college campus.

and you know, I was maybe like 11, but just my mind was blown seeing this mansion go down the street.

we watched it from I 15.

Next to Clark canyon reservoir, but I will never, ever, ever forget it.

You know, fast track.

It obviously, instilled in me that, like I can move houses like legit.

We can move houses guys anywhere, any size, like no problem.

We'll figure it out.

but, my father relocated the family here in 1999 to Jackson, he was building a home in Buffalo valley.

And so we lived up there in Moran and I was so excited that it was a shorter bus ride commute.

I like felt like I was in town, that there was like more than five families.

The garnets were out there.

Like I remember just being.

Overly excited that my bus ride was shorter and that there was more people that lived on the road than in Montana.

. So you would take the bus.

Were you in high school at this time you were taking the bus from Moran to Jackson Hole high school.

And you're saying that was a short, a shorter bus ride than what you were doing in Montana.

Yep.

Oh, so tell people how long it takes to get from Moran to Jackson.

I mean, it's gotta be like, I mean, I haven't been on the bus in a long time, but at least an hour, it's not a simple task.

Yeah.

And then, my uncle Lance Scofield, had a home in Cottonwood that he had built in the eighties and he lifted it up and put a, foundation, a full space that underneath and doubled his, Square footage.

It still stands.

I forget what the address is.

We dug up an old, Jackson hole, news and guide article about him and him lifting his house.

And he did all the work himself.

Lemons lifted the house.

I think it was in maybe 2000, 2001.

but definitely come from a demographic of like, oh yeah, we'll figure it out.

Which really is the essence of, Shacks on Racks you know,

so you've been here since high school.

And are you, you married, you have a family raising kids.

Yes.

I, graduated early, and, got knocked up.

I, have an amazing 17 year old boy.

he keeps me on my toes.

Um, I am currently married, my husband, Phillip Lennox, and I own, Gus the Gutterman and full house right on mm-hmm so we hang, roof gutters and, right on we're the only EPA certified right on mitigators in the state of Wyoming.

Really?

Yes.

Yep.

Does any other part of the state really.

probably not as much as we do Stephan no, you know, Lander cares.

There's like, there definitely is some hot spots, throughout which we're seeing a shift in consciousness with home ownership and, actually people like calling and asking questions and, it's really, really good.

It's nice.

We love questions.

We wanna answer.

Sure.

And you mentioned Shacks on Racks as well,

and yes.

Shack on racks is the passion work.

you know, shacks on racks was an interesting thing.

so my husband and I, we met 10 years ago.

Our anniversary was, July 3rd, 10 year anniversary.

and we were both losing our housing.

I was living with him, Silas and I were living with him.

And, he couldn't renew the lease and we couldn't find a place to rent.

So we were looking, looking, looking, and, He had some family money that he had never spent.

It was in some, in invest investment accounts.

And he tells me like, Esther, I have some money.

Maybe we can put down a down payment.

And I was like, what?

Yes we can.

so we bought our first house.

we had been dating for 11 months when we bought a condo in rafter J it was this, Northeast 40.

so we bought that and at the time, it was good.

We lived there for two years and then we were plowing snow at the time and we didn't get any snow and so we couldn't pay our mortgage.

So we sold.

And we, thank goodness we sold.

If it would've went another month, it would've been a foreclosure, you know, which is just like the crazy part, you know, another crazy housing story in Jackson, Wyoming, that you, you know, can't afford your first home.

anyway, we, we sold the house and we were able to purchase an acre, on hog island.

and, The house sitting behind me is our first project.

It was built in 1941.

It was at 1 25 west Hansen, close to the brew pub mm-hmm . And, it was a demolition project and I just could not believe it.

So, Philip and I, we moved at hill climb weekend.

It was a disaster, and it sat in our driveway for a couple years cuz we didn't have any money to do anything else with.

And once we got it on a foundation, I like really started trolling the public demolition permits and realized that like way more of this is happening than I think our community realizes way more of what is

happening.

Way more structures are refuse, then what our community realizes.

You know, we see the change and I think majority of us who live in the community are acutely aware of what's going on.

Mm-hmm but for me, there wasn't a direct connection of.

Walking my dog in east Jackson, and then the house is gone.

I, I didn't put two and two together that it had gone to the trash mm-hmm like it had become so normal that these lots were just one day bare without digging deeper of like, wait, why, how did that happen?

Like, I remember that was a cute house or once, I started looking into demolition permits, which were public knowledge.

I mean, my mind was blown.

It was a direct, I don't see that house anymore because it went to the trash.

Like there was no question or like, you know, it's because it went to the trash

mm-hmm, now help people who are listening, understand, why that's a concern that these houses that you are finding on the demolition permit list are going to the trash.

Well, I mean, ultimately it's concerning for a lot of reasons.

first of all, Jackson is a really conscious caring community and, we all support road to zero waste.

We, we all do our.

In part of the struggle to be here is that you have to want to be here and wanting to be here.

Most people, care, road to zero waste, number one, but ultimately way too many worthy structures, completely habitable structures were going to the trash as the only alternative to clearing the lot.

you know, we live in just such.

you know, the housing.

Crisis that everybody seems to find themselves in.

You know, I've been partaking in some town council housing discussions, and it's heartbreaking all the way from hearing about families who thought that they could short term rental their house.

So they accepted a bigger mortgage than they could really pay.

And now things are changing and just like heart wrenching stories of mother, daughter, granddaughter.

Banking on some really high end rental situation and it not being able to pan out, but just sad, sad stories, local being able to find stuff all the way to people who can't afford their mortgage, who thought that they were gonna be able to rent.

360 days a year.

And they can't, you know what I mean?

Just like, so we're in a high, a housing crisis regardless of how you look at it, regardless of what side you're on.

we're all touched by it, whether you're a business owner who can't keep employees around or, you know, it doesn't matter.

We're, we're all, you're a part of the community you're affected by the.

Housing situation all the way down to service workers on more wealthier people's properties who don't understand, like, the reason you can't cut grass every seven days now is cuz there's no staff to cut your grass every seven days.

So like literally our entire demographic, whether you acknowledge it, our entire demographic is directly affected by the housing issues in Teton county.

And so starting shacks on racks, you are going through these demolition permits and are people approaching you or are you the person approaching them?

So now that I've been at it for going on six years, we, are actually getting people approaching us, which I'm immensely grateful.

Stephan.

You were my first, In Teton county, you don't have to have a demolition permit to dispose of your structure, which we are looking.

We will be asking the community for support on an LDR amendment.

For that we would like the preservation board who is currently the first reviewing body to review the demolition permit, but we need to get something set up in the county because currently that isn't there within the town.

Our review process goes to the historical preservation board.

And that is my first first stop shop for grabbing the condensed information for demolition permits.

that's specific to how our county works.

I know a lot of different towns and stuff are different, but the, the point of me rabbit hole on this is that all demolition permits are public information.

Your community might categorize them different or you might have a different review process, but if you have to apply for one, it is public information.

Mm-hmm ultimately Heidi Cooper ranch had a small cabin.

That be, that was originally on Meadowbrook ranch.

It was moved out to Heidi Cooper, ranch in Wilson.

In the eighties and we moved it back to town.

It's now sitting, Trita and Jesse Morgan purchased it and it's sitting on a downtown lot, which is great.

They're gonna make it their primary residence.

They're they're in the process of it.

it's close to the center of the arts, which is, which is cool that they're picking such a.

It's such a wonderful downtown lot to be doing such a cool Shacks on Racks project on so really proud of that.

but Stephan, you were my first, you and Laura were the first demolition permit who reached out to me prior to submitting the demolition permit.

So, thank you.

Yay, Stephan and Laura!

well, I mean, at some point every action's an, an original idea.

yeah.

It's good.

I mean, it worked and Stephan, you really gave us and the family that I chose to take the house.

You, you really.

Us the opportunity to get ahead of it.

Most of the time, if you apply for, in your instance, let's use your house for an example.

Mm-hmm if you would've, when you would've applied for that demolition permit, it would've been approved because there your house was not hi, would not have met the 12 point criteria to meet historically significant standards.

Yeah.

Not at all.

You would've been.

Free to do with, as you saw fit with, as soon as you picked up that permit, which is usually about seven days after review five to 10 days, you pay for your demo and you were allowed to do whatever you wanted.

So you getting specifically because the preservation board couldn't have held it with a 90 day, stay due to historical significance in order to give us 90 days.

Mm-hmm . But at Matt.

And that's only, is it significant, excuse me, historically significant mm-hmm

I, I do wanna talk more about the process that I went through with you, which was absolutely super, was there was no stress pain or anything on my side, but I, I wanna, I want to get a little bit of.

Um, you mentioned because I like history and just snowing some stuff.

you mentioned that on the Heidi Cooper ranch, which is up on the past, you know, the base of the past, there was the structure and it, and it came from what ranch, you said melody ranch or Miller meadow.

Meadowbrook ranch.

Yeah.

So Trista found.

They found the sun bleached old plaque number underneath.

We found the old plaque number and she got pictures from Morgan at the historical society, Uhhuh that are her cabin on site, original site, her actual physical cabin number and cabin on a little postcard.

No kidding.

Yes.

Yep.

That's wild.

It's so cool.

And so how many square feet is that cabin?

so they cut it in.

Which are gonna be like the win.

The, so it's an accessory residential unit.

It's gonna be a thousand square feet.

500 of it is the existing cabin and about 500 of it is gonna be new.

Okay.

So what they're gonna do is in the new section, which will be in the middle, they are going to do their kitchen and all their plumbing and all their things.

So that, that way they can keep the cabins truly historic.

They're not gonna put any.

Holes in that, like, literally they're keeping it as is.

That's cool.

yeah.

So just really putting all the guts and all the things that force you to be, to code all your things, they're doing it in the new part so that they can keep the rest of it.

And they're gonna do like a fabulous, very vintage cabin.

She's a landscape architect.

Okay.

and he's a builder, slash like both really, really enjoy design.

it's gonna be really, really fun to see it come together.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Now we're gonna take a quick break to get a word from our sponsor.

And then I want to talk about, the process that you went through to find.

a receiver of the house that Laura and I had.

and, and this is not about me.

It's not about Laura and I it's about your process and the value, the joy it brings to somebody else as well.

so we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna be right back.

Great.

Esther, welcome back.

We are just chatting about Shacks on Racks and shacks on racks.

You are.

Finding structures, which are perfectly good, have still a life to them in finding a new home for them versus them being torn down and sent to the landfill.

And recently my wife and I were very fortunate that we connected with you and you found somebody to take our house.

and let's talk about that process that you went through.

To have somebody take the house and how you chose them.

Yeah, absolutely.

I kind of have a question for you, Stephan.

Sure.

how did you feel, first of all, how did you hear about me, cuz like I said, you heard about me, so thank you for doing the right thing and reaching out to me.

God, did I word that wrong?

Yeah, you did do the right thing by reaching out to me cuz had you heard about me and ignored that then you would've been directly contributing to what's really, really ugly and happening.

So all right.

Sorry about that.

So yeah, my history was, or the steps that I went through was I tried doing a, doing a selection on my own, my own and.

Reached out to my network and found somebody and they actually worked with an engineer, an architect, and had it determined that they could use that structure as a accessory residential unit on their property in the county, cuz it met the criteria for the square footage.

And then as time was progressing, I needed a firm.

Date and to have a deposit.

So I knew that this per individual was completely committed and as much as they wanted it to preserve the house, they weren't sure they could meet our timeline that we needed.

Because I needed the house off the property by a very specific date.

so they said, thank you, but we can't do it.

If you need Esther's information with shacks on racks, they could give that to me.

And I had heard about shacks on racks, cuz I'd seen some information in the newspaper.

I'm not really an Instagram or a social media person, but it was there as well.

but before that, I had reached out to another individual.

And they had one person acting as a mediary for his friends that were really gonna take the house.

And they were talking about going to Pinedale and the conversation started going someplace.

And I was like, yeah, I'm not waiting for these folks.

I'm calling I'll call shacks on racks and see what Esther can do.

And that's when we connected.

because I'll tell you the purpose of why we wanted the house to be moved versus torn down.

One was, it is a sound house.

We just wanted more space for our family.

It's a thousand square feet, two bedroom, one bath house, and we loved it.

our wedding gift.

From friends and family was raising money to put new windows in the house.

Cause when I bought the house and Laura and I were living in there, you could see gaps in between the windows and see outside and you could feel the air coming in.

So the windows were shot.

We needed new windows.

So we were graced with the ability to put new windows in.

We love the house.

It was built by the Hoffman, Sue and Darrell Hoffman.

It was for Sue's mom to live in back in the seven.

I don't think she lived in it very long, but even on the panel, the electrical panel, it said mom's room.

Yeah.

On, on the wording, on the electric panel.

When I first moved in there,

I love that.

I wonder if it does it still

stuff it, no, no.

I had to change it at some point, cuz I didn't know.

Couldn't remember which room mom's room

was yeah, right.

Yeah.

So I, I had to rewrite it anyway and, and then at some point it blew off.

so we.

Wanted to know if, if the house could be moved and, and it could be.

And so finding somebody to take the home to be reused versus what you're talking about, instead of it going to the landfill was one reason.

Another reason just for our purpose alone is I didn't have to pay demolition fees and dump fees for a structure.

So for somebody who's working on a tight budget to build a new house, It made sense.

It made a lot of sense.

So we met and you walked in, I know this house.

I can move this house.

This'll be easy.

No problem.

And you took it from there.

and from there, it was just me remembering to get in ASBE as test

I, I learned a lot because of it.

I put it on my list.

Mm-hmm so every house there's, it's always something different.

Mm-hmm I know all the things that I have 'em in my head and we think we talked about 'em and maybe we did.

Maybe not, but I put it on my list of like my pre owner checklist, my current owner checklist of like, Hey, make sure that that's on there.

Cause it it's one of those things.

what the craziest thing about the asbestos test was it's only good for, I think.

It was only good for a certain number of months.

It wasn't even good for like two years and you don't even use asbestos anymore.

So if you got the test today, let's say it was only good for three months.

It's not as though you in, in six months is gonna be asbestos in the house now, but Hey, that's the yeah, the code.

So we just go with the code

yep.

yeah.

And Stephan, thank you for kind of talking about your experiences with it and how you and how we came to be.

cuz that's exactly what I try and do I show up, I assess the structure and I will tell you if we can get it moved or not.

I mean, and it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

There's yes.

There's a lot of moving.

Yes.

There's a ton of considerations, both for the current owner, as well as a perspective Shack's owner, you know, you have to make sure your site infrastructure can handle it, that it's allowed your HOA.

I mean, there's so many moving parts, but it's not hard.

It's just a matter of just doing it.

And it's one step at a time and it's, and it's all of it.

So.

A little bit about my process.

I was working with the original person that you had, communicated with.

I was walking him through some of the things he was really helpful.

He, notified me that he just wouldn't be ready and we would be in touch.

I was really, really grateful to actually get on site.

So originally.

my intention was to keep it in Teton county.

I thought that specifically with you and Laura being a local business owner and Laura working with the bank and you, you guys just being so local.

so the first open house that I did, I had six people who are interested and, three of them, I, so when we met.

Site.

I had my house mover, my structural engineer.

Who's Carri Molin with Sergeant engineers.

He moved his grandmother's house and lives in it.

And the wonderful thing about Carri and I is we don't agree on preservation.

We have opposing views.

He thinks that it is only a labor love.

and I do not.

I think that there is much more to it than simply a labor of love, simply with land values and things of that nature that, but anyway, it's, it's really fun cuz we have this dynamic of, of it.

Anyway, he met on site with us and.

First thing that he said, which I would not have known because I'm not an engineer, but that the roofs trusts were not engineered to bear the load required in Teton county limit.

Mm-hmm so immediately three of my people were out right out of the gate.

So now I'm down to three others and when it comes down to it, shack on racks has to respect.

Your timeframe, you told me the timeframe and I told you so I, my shock side of it is I will do it by this time.

I promise.

And so on the back end, you know, I'm frantically scrambling for a commitment from someone.

And so Katie, and Matt, are who took it.

They, Showed up at the open house and were ready to make a decision within 24 hours and they made it and wrote me the most beautiful letter.

I would love to share it with you if I haven't yet Stephan beautiful letter of gratitude, housing, woes, and.

I mean, just one of the most beautiful letters I've ever written.

I can't believe it was written to my organization.

sometimes that is just way too beautiful to be true, you know?

Cuz it, Stephan, you just gave Matt and Katie, their very first home.

You and Laura gave them their very first home that they actually get live in together.

They don't live together right now because she's running a room and he lives in Boise and like, This legit, you brought a couple who they got married this weekend.

Nice.

Yay.

That's awesome.

They got married this weekend, so it was cute.

You moved on a house last month and this month they got married and it solidified.

One more valuable, valuable member staying in our community because they have housing security.

Mm-hmm

that's I didn't realize that they just got married, this month and that's phenomenal.

Yeah.

that, that, that happened.

yeah, please do I think, I remember reading the letter, share it with me again and, and.

Is she is Katie.

Okay.

If we share the

letter publicly?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, she is.

Which, that would be really nice to do.

I'm trying Ryan and I are kind of brainstorming a way to do a like little thank you story.

I've never had enough time to thank anybody more than just like, you know, I send a card and that's about it.

but I, I would like to do more.

I.

Equally what you guys did, Stephan, the fact that you and Laura even thought about relocating it and tried it on your own before you came to me, you know, that is admirable.

That's even more so than what most property owners are currently doing.

Hmm.

And that's all that it takes you don't, you know, and for you, thank you for saying that the process was smooth and whatnot, but.

I want it to be, I need it to be, I need you to feel like I'm gonna come in and take your house.

And like, here we go off, we go like, you know, I need you to feel that if you don't, you're not gonna let me move your house.

mm-hmm I mean, like, you know, which they are all different.

but

well, yeah, that's gotta be a challenge.

And so how many structures have you moved?

This year.

And so how many structures have you moved this year and how many pieces do you think it was as well?

Yeah, cause not every structure is one move mm-hmm

Yeah.

So, in January, I hired, river escapes, glass, Jason Boyd, Well, let me start here.

The nurses quarters, the historic nurses quarters at 1 65 Glenwood.

It was our first apartment complex in Teton county.

It was built as an apartment for the nurses at St.

John's.

It was directly behind the current St John's campus.

So it was 3000 square feet.

It was over our height, our widths, everything about it was there's no way it's getting down the.

So Sr mills, the owner of the structure donated a hundred thousand dollars, community foundation accepted the donation, which was his dump budget.

they accepted the dump budget and, The Lynn ranch took that Dwayne and Laura Meadows, took that and are making it their primary residence on the Lynn ranch.

but ultimately, the donation was huge.

The house was huge.

It is the largest in all the ways, that shacks on access relocated thus far.

So I hired, river scapes glass who Jason Boyd and Patrick are just incredibly talented.

Men who dismantled the second story, because we were at like 28 feet.

So we, dismantled the second story and then ver with Teton transport, cut the first story in half.

And we moved that into parts.

So we moved the nurses quarters, which is about 3000 square feet.

We moved that it took 40.

It took between 45 and 60 days.

I should get an actual number on that from when we start to finish.

So we did that January and February.

I can't wait to see how that turns out, cuz they're gonna rebuild that second story and like, oh my gosh, I can't wait.

It'll, it'll be amazing.

And then the next house that we did was, a beautiful hhe.

The logs were sourced from the east coast.

Beautiful 600 square foot hand structure that was already set on skids.

Oscar and her husband will took that with Oscar's animals.

She does the animal nonprofit in Victor.

so they took that gosh, that was in may, maybe.

And then we moved yours.

No, we did yours in may.

So that was before then.

Yeah.

So Callahans was before then Callahans donated it to Oscar and will, thank you.

Callahans mm-hmm and then we did, you and Lauras.

And that was three sections due to our width we were smooth, sail in over pine Creek and, and into Victor.

And then I just got done moving one.

It was a thousand square feet.

We had to move it in two sections.

that came from 80 rancher.

and also I have to say which that went to Carla and will Stein Meer will baker and Carla Stein, Meer.

oh, okay.

Yeah, she's a, she's a local CPA, but they have a three year old mm-hmm and her, and will have moved with little baby, like three times since he's been.

Whoa.

so they moved it.

They're gonna make it their primary residence.

They're gonna put a full basement underneath and, the little house on top and we're gearing up.

We're gonna do, a beautiful historic structure on Jackson street.

we're very, very excited about it.

they're getting less historic or less.

You know, we're running out of houses like this in east Jackson.

Mm-hmm . Now we're getting into more seventies.

The 180 rancher was built in 2010.

Stephan.

It was 20 years old, not even 20 years old.

No, it was 12.

Yeah.

It's 12 years old.

The one from rancher was only 12 years old, but so my wanted to move.

They, well, they wouldn't need to get rid of it.

They wouldn't do something.

They didn't want that structure anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So at the end of the day, there's a lot of reasons why shacks on racks exists.

And ultimately I see that there's a problem in my community.

Mm-hmm and I don't know what else to do.

Shas developed out of desperation to have a roof over my head and.

you know, people ask why I keep doing it.

And the only reason that I'm still moving houses is cuz people are still applying for demolition permits if it was Hansen.

And that was, it I'd have been done.

I would've, we would've said good job, Esther, pat, on the back, you did the thing and walk away, but people keep applying for demolition permits and I'm obligated.

What else do I do?

I mean, I am all I'm obligated.

I don't know by my heart and how much I care about this community and how much I care about people who work like myself, to be a labor, you know?

Yes.

Being the only EPA certified right on mitigator is a big deal, but like, to be able to live and Teton county and do that is like, I mean, privilege upon privilege.

And it's only because I found an affordable way.

To do it otherwise I couldn't do it.

I can't build it a thousand square feet.

There's no way you know, I it's okay that it works for some people, but it's working for less and less and less and less of us.

Mm-hmm

and what is it?

Is it the cost per square foot or is it just very per structure?

Mm-hmm of what it costs to move it,

it varies.

Mm-hmm , you know, the garage on your house was slab on grade, so it costed more.

Then it did for the house pieces.

You know, if we break it out, it costs $60,000 to move your structure.

Mm-hmm it was in three pieces, but really the garage was more like 35,000 of it.

And then the house pieces, because there's a floor in 'em.

So the slab on grades are harder to move.

We have to use more structural pieces to be able to beam 'em up and load 'em up and cause there's no floor.

So, it, it does depend, but it varies between $30 and, $50 a square foot

and their contractors are building now stick, build houses.

I think probably nothing under $900 a square foot.

Yep.

Yep.

Mm-hmm I had a builder told me that seven 50 is as cheap as I'm going to find in Teton county right now.

Mm-hmm which I was like, even that I was like, okay, well,

yeah.

And it's it's mind blowing mm-hmm but it is where it is.

And, You're well, what you're doing is phenomenal.

you're finding opportunities for other people like Katie, like Carla, who the struggle's real, and they might have a place to put it.

And I guess if a lot of these houses, as long as it goes outta Teton county, it can still be used.

I hadn't until your engineer came over, it just shows how things have changed.

That when our house was built in 70.

It was structurally sound.

It met all the code, but in today's world, the trusses didn't meet code.

now we never had any problem with snow load.

but according to what our community wants now, it didn't fit the mustard now.

Well, and so let me point out Stephan, a couple things specifically about the Teton county demographic is that there's no incentive currently that I'm aware of.

For you to save on site, especially if it's not historical a seventies house, but like, even if it was historical, you don't get a larger up zone.

You don't get an extra apartment.

You don't get an extra AU there's no, I didn't get.

Anything, but it made my heart feel good that I moved this house here.

Mm-hmm Teton county.

There.

Isn't I had to bring it to code.

It was built in 1941.

It has to be, we moved it in 2016.

It had to be to code like no exception.

So, I think there is some really unfortunate things happening because there isn't incentives, whether it's to take it or to save on site.

Why would you Stephan, had you opened your walls up in that house?

You would've had to bring it to code.

Yeah.

So if you would've done, like one of your neighbors, a few houses down has a cute little garage apartment above there.

Like some of those, even those are becoming more and more unrealistic because the second that you remodel.

and do additions.

You have to be to current code for you to bring that roof up to current code.

It's why no one moved it in Teton county.

But even for you ju just if people are saying, well, why didn't Stephan and Laura say, oh, save on site.

Well, that's one of 'em you would have had to reengineer the roof.

Mm-hmm like you would have had to.

Bring it up to electrical standards.

If it, they weren't already up to it.

Like literally you would've had to look at that house exactly.

As a new build, even if you were simply just doing an, an addition mm-hmm so for you, it makes it, you as a family sitting down being like, wow, I'm gonna have to re-shoot rocket.

I'm gonna have to reroof it.

I'm gonna have to reinsulate it.

I mean, I don't even know if those walls would've worked int in town limits to current code, so it's making it even harder for people to save on site who would choose to do that.

Otherwise, you know, mm-hmm, because everyone's not a story here.

Y'all are, you know, this is of the better, more smoother of my stories.

Let me just say that.

, you know, I mean, you know, because we all have our own opinions in this and working with our own set of challenges and with our, anyway, I, I wanna say to anybody who would be like, well, why would step and Laura do that?

It didn't pencil out for you guys to save on site.

I think had you guys got some kind of incentive one way or the other, whether it wasn't bringing it all the way to code or it, it doesn't matter getting bigger or taxes or not having to pay the housing mitigation fee or like mm-hmm, something but even that, if any burden can be lifted through such a generous donation, I think equally that needs to be acknowledged as well.

well, cause there's no reason for you to donate either.

Mm-hmm so there's no reason to donate.

There's no reason to save on site.

There's no reason to keep it outta the trash.

There's no reason for me to take it.

Why would I take something that was built 1941 versus literally just building something new that I didn't have the code issues on that I didn't have the thing.

And obviously it, it comes to.

There's inevitably a tangible value to this fine builders are building at X amount of square feet, blah, blah, blah.

That's not what this is about.

This is about y'all doing the right thing with your structure because you are giving this family something that is forever.

Powerful like forever mattered forever is and we need more moments like that.

We need more consciousness.

So there's been about 400 demolition.

Since 2013, I would encourage you guys to check out ShacksonRacks.com.

There is a demolition map on there and, Ryan Dogan, has mapped all of those out.

You can click on the, there's a key to, what's been relocated reused.

There's like, they're all different colors with Coke.

With color coded.

So I would encourage you to look at it, about 400 structures since 2013 and about 5% of those 5%.

And it's actually less, but have been, there were materials that been reused or have been actually relo.

So that's the hard thing too.

I know that I'm doing good work and I know that what I do matters, but there is more houses than I could even begin to imagine to save.

Mm-hmm that?

No matter what it's like still not enough, like we still have more houses going to the trash than I am able to move.

And it's heartbreaking.

It, it is heartbreaking, but keep in, keep in mind what you're doing.

Some is better than none.

Agreed.

And I agree, but you know, it's funny, there's been moments of like, Are you worried about people, you know, still in your work or blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, no, come, I want my community to look at our demolition permits.

I want people, I mean, they're there I'll show you where to get 'em to get all the same information that I'm getting.

Like we should care about it.

We should try and do something fortunately enough.

I've streamlined the process with the engineer and the architect and the mover and everybody to just get the pieces in and.

We're able to meet the crazy deadlines, which is the most important thing is we gotta, we gotta move when moving, is necessary, you know?

well, I am very grateful for the work that you are doing Esther and.

You are on you're the social media master.

So share with people how they can find shacks on racks out there.

Yeah, absolutely.

on Instagram @shacksonracks22, and I don't use Facebook.

there is a shacks on racks, Facebook out there because it's connected to Instagram.

there is zero messages.

There is zero interface happening there.

But you can find me on Shacks on racks 22 on Instagram.

And, also my website, which is, shacksonracks.com.

Please sign up for my newsletter.

We, do a newsletter which posts new demolition permits and, it gives everybody who's on the email, the email.

To get dibs on a structure before I put it out to social media.

If my direct list isn't picking up on it, then it gives you an opportunity to get on it before, all the houses, almost all the houses that I put on Instagram go that's but I put it on Instagram and it's like, we, I can find a taker.

That's how I found Katie and Matt, Katie and Matt.

We had not connected Briar.

And I think they found me on Instagram.

I was doing the open house the next day mm-hmm and she literally, she was there.

That's

awesome.

Yeah.

I love it.

Well, Esther, I, I do appreciate the work that you're doing and, I do appreciate your time and, and taking the time to, to speak with me and thank you for moving our house and finding Katie and Matt.

And, we can't wait.

Laura stays in touch with Katie.

So when Katie has put it all back together, we're gonna go over to Victor and visit, yeah.

Can I come?

Yeah, for sure.

I'm actually putting that in my contract now is.

Like a year later, you have to let me back in the house.

cause the one for the elk refuge, I moved the house to the elk refuge.

They permanently expanded the habit border of the national elk refuge one acre, but it was all because of me.

but they won't let me back in it now, which I'm like, guys, you gotta, lemme get my ask.

Bitchers anyway, lesson learned, I put it in the contract just like those Vesto.

Good work.

Well, we all learn with how to make improvements over time.

Yeah.

Well, Esther, thank you so much.

You go have a great evening over there on hog island.

enjoy the rest of the sunshine, this beautiful sunny day.

And we'll be talking to you soon and see you around town.

Yeah,

absolutely.

Thanks for your time Stephan and this was fun.

Got

it.

Take care, Esther.

Bye-bye

bye.

To learn more about Esther and Shacks on racks visit thejacksonholeconnection.com episode number 200.

Thank you everybody who helps keep this podcast on the air, the Jackson hole connection.

Of course, my wife, Laura and the boys that I love William and Lewis and my editor and marketing director, Michael Moeri I appreciate you sharing your time with me today.

Cheers.