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Episode 200 – Saving Homes with Esther Judge-Lennox of Shacks on Racks
Episode 20028th July 2022 • The Jackson Hole Connection • Stephan C. Abrams
00:00:00 00:48:56

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On our 200th episode, Stephan chats with Esther Judge-Lennox. Esther is the Founder of Shacks on Racks. Shacks on Racks helps connect homeowners thinking about removing a home or structure from their land with people who could make use of a relocated home or outbuilding on their own property.  

In this episode, Esther shares what it was like to move to Moran, WY while in High School. She goes into her inspiration for starting Shacks on Racks and the process she goes through to find new homes. Stephan then shares his family’s story of how Shacks on Racks helped move their home to help out another community member. Esther and Stephan then talk about some of the other homes Shacks have helped relocate and some of the unexpected hurdles they have faced. 

Find out more about Esther and Shacks on Racks at ShacksOnRacks.com. Don’t forget to join their email newsletter to find out when new homes are available. 

Follow Stephan and his family on Instagram @buildinginthehole22 to see their experience of living in a camper for the summer as they give their home away to build a new home. 

This week’s episode is sponsored in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, announcing the new commercial Curb to Compost Program for restaurants and other commercial food waste generators. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram

Support also comes from The Jackson Hole Wine Club. Curating quality wine selections delivered to you each month. Enjoy delicious wines at amazing prices. More at JacksonHoleWineClub.com

Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com,@thatsamoeri)

Transcripts

Stephan Abrams:

You are tuned into the Jackson hole, connection, sharing, fascinating stories of people connected to Jackson Hole.

Stephan Abrams:

I am truly grateful for each of you for tuning in today and support for this podcast comes from:

Stephan Abrams:

Everyone, I enjoy reading and learning from others, which guides me to share this quote with you before we begin today's episode, today's quote is you have the power over your mind.

Stephan Abrams:

Not outside events realize this, and you will find strength.

Stephan Abrams:

That's from Marcus Aurelius.

Stephan Abrams:

And today is the 200th episode of the Jackson hole Connection.

Stephan Abrams:

And I promise you, the episodes are gonna keep on coming for as long as people wanna share their stories with me and share their stories with you.

Stephan Abrams:

When I started the Jackson Hole Connection, I knew there's an endless pool people to speak with who have a connection to Jackson Hole with phenomenal stories to share.

Stephan Abrams:

But I did not even think about how many episodes the podcast would reach.

Stephan Abrams:

I had no inclination.

Stephan Abrams:

The reason I continue to produce this podcast is I hear from people how much they appreciate the interviews and how they learned something new from listening to the guests and folks.

Stephan Abrams:

Learn something new.

Stephan Abrams:

Each time I interview the guests for this podcast, I learn how to be a more thoughtful and engaged listener.

Stephan Abrams:

I've learned how to ask better questions, questions of curiosity, questions, which help me learn and be a better, person, a better dad, better husband, better business community member.

Stephan Abrams:

And I've learned I can make a positive change in people's lives.

Stephan Abrams:

The small changes.

Stephan Abrams:

That we make can influence a seismic shift in our communities.

Stephan Abrams:

you have the ability to make a difference in the lives of each person.

Stephan Abrams:

You touch me saying that I know that I can make a difference is not me being.

Stephan Abrams:

Bigger or better than anybody else.

Stephan Abrams:

We all make a difference in people's lives with the people we come in contact with, with the cashier at a store, when you're going to get gas or a soda, when you're grabbing ice cream, tell somebody thank you for being there.

Stephan Abrams:

It will put a smile on their face.

Stephan Abrams:

Everything big, started off small.

Stephan Abrams:

Just think of the grand canyon time is on your side folks.

Stephan Abrams:

So use your time to your fullest position.

Stephan Abrams:

Thank you for sharing your time with me today and over the past 200 episodes.

Stephan Abrams:

And today on episode 200, I am delighted to speak with Esther Judge of Shacks on Racks, my wife and I recently had the pleasure of working with Esther to find a new home for our home, a home, which would not go to the landfill.

Stephan Abrams:

Esther started Shacks on Racks by identifying a need.

Stephan Abrams:

She didn't look at what isn't being done as a roadblock, but as an opportunity.

Stephan Abrams:

You will thoroughly enjoy listening to Esther.

Stephan Abrams:

Esther is a high energy free thinking individual and sit back and relax, enjoy what you're doing.

Stephan Abrams:

Have fun on your walk.

Stephan Abrams:

And I know that you're gonna appreciate what Esther has to say.

Stephan Abrams:

Esther.

Stephan Abrams:

Thank you for joining me here today on the Jackson Hole Connection.

Stephan Abrams:

Wonderful to see you on a sunny afternoon.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Thank you very much for having me Stephan.

Stephan Abrams:

You're welcome.

Stephan Abrams:

Esther, we start the episodes with the guest and that is you today and you and I have spoken many times and neither of us are short of words.

Stephan Abrams:

and we'll get in a little bit as far as, how our paths crossed.

Stephan Abrams:

But let's start with you sharing your history.

Stephan Abrams:

where were you born?

Stephan Abrams:

Where were you raised?

Stephan Abrams:

And, how did you get connected to this area?

Stephan Abrams:

We called Jackson hole.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah, absolutely.

Stephan Abrams:

I was born in Dillon Montana.

Stephan Abrams:

Mm-hmm I grew up about 30 miles outside of there in a town called Archna.

Stephan Abrams:

There was like maybe five families that lived up there, including my cousins.

Stephan Abrams:

so just really, really small, small, small community.

Stephan Abrams:

in 1998, Ted Turner donated the row mansion.

Stephan Abrams:

He bought red rocks, ranch, right outside south of Dillon and he, donated the homestead that was on that I saw some square foot stately home built in the early 19 hundreds.

Stephan Abrams:

which is it's currently their admin building.

Stephan Abrams:

It it's proud on the college campus.

Stephan Abrams:

and you know, I was maybe like 11, but just my mind was blown seeing this mansion go down the street.

Stephan Abrams:

we watched it from I 15.

Stephan Abrams:

Next to Clark canyon reservoir, but I will never, ever, ever forget it.

Stephan Abrams:

You know, fast track.

Stephan Abrams:

It obviously, instilled in me that, like I can move houses like legit.

Stephan Abrams:

We can move houses guys anywhere, any size, like no problem.

Stephan Abrams:

We'll figure it out.

Stephan Abrams:

but, my father relocated the family here in 1999 to Jackson, he was building a home in Buffalo valley.

Stephan Abrams:

And so we lived up there in Moran and I was so excited that it was a shorter bus ride commute.

Stephan Abrams:

I like felt like I was in town, that there was like more than five families.

Stephan Abrams:

The garnets were out there.

Stephan Abrams:

Like I remember just being.

Stephan Abrams:

Overly excited that my bus ride was shorter and that there was more people that lived on the road than in Montana.

Stephan Abrams:

. So you would take the bus.

Stephan Abrams:

Were you in high school at this time you were taking the bus from Moran to Jackson Hole high school.

Stephan Abrams:

And you're saying that was a short, a shorter bus ride than what you were doing in Montana.

Stephan Abrams:

Yep.

Stephan Abrams:

Oh, so tell people how long it takes to get from Moran to Jackson.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, it's gotta be like, I mean, I haven't been on the bus in a long time, but at least an hour, it's not a simple task.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And then, my uncle Lance Scofield, had a home in Cottonwood that he had built in the eighties and he lifted it up and put a, foundation, a full space that underneath and doubled his, Square footage.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It still stands.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I forget what the address is.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We dug up an old, Jackson hole, news and guide article about him and him lifting his house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And he did all the work himself.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Lemons lifted the house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I think it was in maybe 2000, 2001.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but definitely come from a demographic of like, oh yeah, we'll figure it out.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Which really is the essence of, Shacks on Racks you know,

Stephan Abrams:

so you've been here since high school.

Stephan Abrams:

And are you, you married, you have a family raising kids.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I, graduated early, and, got knocked up.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I, have an amazing 17 year old boy.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

he keeps me on my toes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Um, I am currently married, my husband, Phillip Lennox, and I own, Gus the Gutterman and full house right on mm-hmm so we hang, roof gutters and, right on we're the only EPA certified right on mitigators in the state of Wyoming.

Stephan Abrams:

Really?

Stephan Abrams:

Yes.

Stephan Abrams:

Yep.

Stephan Abrams:

Does any other part of the state really.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

probably not as much as we do Stephan no, you know, Lander cares.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's like, there definitely is some hot spots, throughout which we're seeing a shift in consciousness with home ownership and, actually people like calling and asking questions and, it's really, really good.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's nice.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We love questions.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We wanna answer.

Stephan Abrams:

Sure.

Stephan Abrams:

And you mentioned Shacks on Racks as well,

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Shack on racks is the passion work.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

you know, shacks on racks was an interesting thing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so my husband and I, we met 10 years ago.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Our anniversary was, July 3rd, 10 year anniversary.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and we were both losing our housing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I was living with him, Silas and I were living with him.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And, he couldn't renew the lease and we couldn't find a place to rent.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So we were looking, looking, looking, and, He had some family money that he had never spent.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was in some, in invest investment accounts.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And he tells me like, Esther, I have some money.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Maybe we can put down a down payment.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And I was like, what?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes we can.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so we bought our first house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

we had been dating for 11 months when we bought a condo in rafter J it was this, Northeast 40.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so we bought that and at the time, it was good.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We lived there for two years and then we were plowing snow at the time and we didn't get any snow and so we couldn't pay our mortgage.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So we sold.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And we, thank goodness we sold.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

If it would've went another month, it would've been a foreclosure, you know, which is just like the crazy part, you know, another crazy housing story in Jackson, Wyoming, that you, you know, can't afford your first home.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

anyway, we, we sold the house and we were able to purchase an acre, on hog island.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and, The house sitting behind me is our first project.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was built in 1941.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was at 1 25 west Hansen, close to the brew pub mm-hmm . And, it was a demolition project and I just could not believe it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So, Philip and I, we moved at hill climb weekend.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was a disaster, and it sat in our driveway for a couple years cuz we didn't have any money to do anything else with.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And once we got it on a foundation, I like really started trolling the public demolition permits and realized that like way more of this is happening than I think our community realizes way more of what is

Stephan Abrams:

happening.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Way more structures are refuse, then what our community realizes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You know, we see the change and I think majority of us who live in the community are acutely aware of what's going on.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm but for me, there wasn't a direct connection of.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Walking my dog in east Jackson, and then the house is gone.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I, I didn't put two and two together that it had gone to the trash mm-hmm like it had become so normal that these lots were just one day bare without digging deeper of like, wait, why, how did that happen?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like, I remember that was a cute house or once, I started looking into demolition permits, which were public knowledge.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, my mind was blown.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was a direct, I don't see that house anymore because it went to the trash.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like there was no question or like, you know, it's because it went to the trash

Esther Judge-Lennox:

mm-hmm, now help people who are listening, understand, why that's a concern that these houses that you are finding on the demolition permit list are going to the trash.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Well, I mean, ultimately it's concerning for a lot of reasons.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

first of all, Jackson is a really conscious caring community and, we all support road to zero waste.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We, we all do our.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

In part of the struggle to be here is that you have to want to be here and wanting to be here.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Most people, care, road to zero waste, number one, but ultimately way too many worthy structures, completely habitable structures were going to the trash as the only alternative to clearing the lot.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

you know, we live in just such.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

you know, the housing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Crisis that everybody seems to find themselves in.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You know, I've been partaking in some town council housing discussions, and it's heartbreaking all the way from hearing about families who thought that they could short term rental their house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So they accepted a bigger mortgage than they could really pay.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And now things are changing and just like heart wrenching stories of mother, daughter, granddaughter.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Banking on some really high end rental situation and it not being able to pan out, but just sad, sad stories, local being able to find stuff all the way to people who can't afford their mortgage, who thought that they were gonna be able to rent.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

360 days a year.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And they can't, you know what I mean?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Just like, so we're in a high, a housing crisis regardless of how you look at it, regardless of what side you're on.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

we're all touched by it, whether you're a business owner who can't keep employees around or, you know, it doesn't matter.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We're, we're all, you're a part of the community you're affected by the.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Housing situation all the way down to service workers on more wealthier people's properties who don't understand, like, the reason you can't cut grass every seven days now is cuz there's no staff to cut your grass every seven days.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So like literally our entire demographic, whether you acknowledge it, our entire demographic is directly affected by the housing issues in Teton county.

Stephan Abrams:

And so starting shacks on racks, you are going through these demolition permits and are people approaching you or are you the person approaching them?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So now that I've been at it for going on six years, we, are actually getting people approaching us, which I'm immensely grateful.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Stephan.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You were my first, In Teton county, you don't have to have a demolition permit to dispose of your structure, which we are looking.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We will be asking the community for support on an LDR amendment.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

For that we would like the preservation board who is currently the first reviewing body to review the demolition permit, but we need to get something set up in the county because currently that isn't there within the town.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Our review process goes to the historical preservation board.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And that is my first first stop shop for grabbing the condensed information for demolition permits.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

that's specific to how our county works.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I know a lot of different towns and stuff are different, but the, the point of me rabbit hole on this is that all demolition permits are public information.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Your community might categorize them different or you might have a different review process, but if you have to apply for one, it is public information.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm ultimately Heidi Cooper ranch had a small cabin.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That be, that was originally on Meadowbrook ranch.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was moved out to Heidi Cooper, ranch in Wilson.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

In the eighties and we moved it back to town.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's now sitting, Trita and Jesse Morgan purchased it and it's sitting on a downtown lot, which is great.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They're gonna make it their primary residence.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They're they're in the process of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

it's close to the center of the arts, which is, which is cool that they're picking such a.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's such a wonderful downtown lot to be doing such a cool Shacks on Racks project on so really proud of that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but Stephan, you were my first, you and Laura were the first demolition permit who reached out to me prior to submitting the demolition permit.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So, thank you.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yay, Stephan and Laura!

Stephan Abrams:

well, I mean, at some point every action's an, an original idea.

Stephan Abrams:

yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's good.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, it worked and Stephan, you really gave us and the family that I chose to take the house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You, you really.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Us the opportunity to get ahead of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Most of the time, if you apply for, in your instance, let's use your house for an example.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm if you would've, when you would've applied for that demolition permit, it would've been approved because there your house was not hi, would not have met the 12 point criteria to meet historically significant standards.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Not at all.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You would've been.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Free to do with, as you saw fit with, as soon as you picked up that permit, which is usually about seven days after review five to 10 days, you pay for your demo and you were allowed to do whatever you wanted.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So you getting specifically because the preservation board couldn't have held it with a 90 day, stay due to historical significance in order to give us 90 days.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm . But at Matt.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And that's only, is it significant, excuse me, historically significant mm-hmm

Stephan Abrams:

I, I do wanna talk more about the process that I went through with you, which was absolutely super, was there was no stress pain or anything on my side, but I, I wanna, I want to get a little bit of.

Stephan Abrams:

Um, you mentioned because I like history and just snowing some stuff.

Stephan Abrams:

you mentioned that on the Heidi Cooper ranch, which is up on the past, you know, the base of the past, there was the structure and it, and it came from what ranch, you said melody ranch or Miller meadow.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Meadowbrook ranch.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So Trista found.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They found the sun bleached old plaque number underneath.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We found the old plaque number and she got pictures from Morgan at the historical society, Uhhuh that are her cabin on site, original site, her actual physical cabin number and cabin on a little postcard.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

No kidding.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yep.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's wild.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's so cool.

Stephan Abrams:

And so how many square feet is that cabin?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so they cut it in.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Which are gonna be like the win.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

The, so it's an accessory residential unit.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's gonna be a thousand square feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

500 of it is the existing cabin and about 500 of it is gonna be new.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Okay.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So what they're gonna do is in the new section, which will be in the middle, they are going to do their kitchen and all their plumbing and all their things.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So that, that way they can keep the cabins truly historic.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They're not gonna put any.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Holes in that, like, literally they're keeping it as is.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's cool.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So just really putting all the guts and all the things that force you to be, to code all your things, they're doing it in the new part so that they can keep the rest of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And they're gonna do like a fabulous, very vintage cabin.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

She's a landscape architect.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Okay.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and he's a builder, slash like both really, really enjoy design.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

it's gonna be really, really fun to see it come together.

Stephan Abrams:

That's awesome.

Stephan Abrams:

That's awesome.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

Now we're gonna take a quick break to get a word from our sponsor.

Stephan Abrams:

And then I want to talk about, the process that you went through to find.

Stephan Abrams:

a receiver of the house that Laura and I had.

Stephan Abrams:

and, and this is not about me.

Stephan Abrams:

It's not about Laura and I it's about your process and the value, the joy it brings to somebody else as well.

Stephan Abrams:

so we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna be right back.

Stephan Abrams:

Great.

Stephan Abrams:

Esther, welcome back.

Stephan Abrams:

We are just chatting about Shacks on Racks and shacks on racks.

Stephan Abrams:

You are.

Stephan Abrams:

Finding structures, which are perfectly good, have still a life to them in finding a new home for them versus them being torn down and sent to the landfill.

Stephan Abrams:

And recently my wife and I were very fortunate that we connected with you and you found somebody to take our house.

Stephan Abrams:

and let's talk about that process that you went through.

Stephan Abrams:

To have somebody take the house and how you chose them.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, absolutely.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I kind of have a question for you, Stephan.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Sure.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

how did you feel, first of all, how did you hear about me, cuz like I said, you heard about me, so thank you for doing the right thing and reaching out to me.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

God, did I word that wrong?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, you did do the right thing by reaching out to me cuz had you heard about me and ignored that then you would've been directly contributing to what's really, really ugly and happening.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So all right.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Sorry about that.

Stephan Abrams:

So yeah, my history was, or the steps that I went through was I tried doing a, doing a selection on my own, my own and.

Stephan Abrams:

Reached out to my network and found somebody and they actually worked with an engineer, an architect, and had it determined that they could use that structure as a accessory residential unit on their property in the county, cuz it met the criteria for the square footage.

Stephan Abrams:

And then as time was progressing, I needed a firm.

Stephan Abrams:

Date and to have a deposit.

Stephan Abrams:

So I knew that this per individual was completely committed and as much as they wanted it to preserve the house, they weren't sure they could meet our timeline that we needed.

Stephan Abrams:

Because I needed the house off the property by a very specific date.

Stephan Abrams:

so they said, thank you, but we can't do it.

Stephan Abrams:

If you need Esther's information with shacks on racks, they could give that to me.

Stephan Abrams:

And I had heard about shacks on racks, cuz I'd seen some information in the newspaper.

Stephan Abrams:

I'm not really an Instagram or a social media person, but it was there as well.

Stephan Abrams:

but before that, I had reached out to another individual.

Stephan Abrams:

And they had one person acting as a mediary for his friends that were really gonna take the house.

Stephan Abrams:

And they were talking about going to Pinedale and the conversation started going someplace.

Stephan Abrams:

And I was like, yeah, I'm not waiting for these folks.

Stephan Abrams:

I'm calling I'll call shacks on racks and see what Esther can do.

Stephan Abrams:

And that's when we connected.

Stephan Abrams:

because I'll tell you the purpose of why we wanted the house to be moved versus torn down.

Stephan Abrams:

One was, it is a sound house.

Stephan Abrams:

We just wanted more space for our family.

Stephan Abrams:

It's a thousand square feet, two bedroom, one bath house, and we loved it.

Stephan Abrams:

our wedding gift.

Stephan Abrams:

From friends and family was raising money to put new windows in the house.

Stephan Abrams:

Cause when I bought the house and Laura and I were living in there, you could see gaps in between the windows and see outside and you could feel the air coming in.

Stephan Abrams:

So the windows were shot.

Stephan Abrams:

We needed new windows.

Stephan Abrams:

So we were graced with the ability to put new windows in.

Stephan Abrams:

We love the house.

Stephan Abrams:

It was built by the Hoffman, Sue and Darrell Hoffman.

Stephan Abrams:

It was for Sue's mom to live in back in the seven.

Stephan Abrams:

I don't think she lived in it very long, but even on the panel, the electrical panel, it said mom's room.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

On, on the wording, on the electric panel.

Stephan Abrams:

When I first moved in there,

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I love that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I wonder if it does it still

Stephan Abrams:

stuff it, no, no.

Stephan Abrams:

I had to change it at some point, cuz I didn't know.

Stephan Abrams:

Couldn't remember which room mom's room

Esther Judge-Lennox:

was yeah, right.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

So I, I had to rewrite it anyway and, and then at some point it blew off.

Stephan Abrams:

so we.

Stephan Abrams:

Wanted to know if, if the house could be moved and, and it could be.

Stephan Abrams:

And so finding somebody to take the home to be reused versus what you're talking about, instead of it going to the landfill was one reason.

Stephan Abrams:

Another reason just for our purpose alone is I didn't have to pay demolition fees and dump fees for a structure.

Stephan Abrams:

So for somebody who's working on a tight budget to build a new house, It made sense.

Stephan Abrams:

It made a lot of sense.

Stephan Abrams:

So we met and you walked in, I know this house.

Stephan Abrams:

I can move this house.

Stephan Abrams:

This'll be easy.

Stephan Abrams:

No problem.

Stephan Abrams:

And you took it from there.

Stephan Abrams:

and from there, it was just me remembering to get in ASBE as test

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I, I learned a lot because of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I put it on my list.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm so every house there's, it's always something different.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm I know all the things that I have 'em in my head and we think we talked about 'em and maybe we did.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Maybe not, but I put it on my list of like my pre owner checklist, my current owner checklist of like, Hey, make sure that that's on there.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Cause it it's one of those things.

Stephan Abrams:

what the craziest thing about the asbestos test was it's only good for, I think.

Stephan Abrams:

It was only good for a certain number of months.

Stephan Abrams:

It wasn't even good for like two years and you don't even use asbestos anymore.

Stephan Abrams:

So if you got the test today, let's say it was only good for three months.

Stephan Abrams:

It's not as though you in, in six months is gonna be asbestos in the house now, but Hey, that's the yeah, the code.

Stephan Abrams:

So we just go with the code

Esther Judge-Lennox:

yep.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And Stephan, thank you for kind of talking about your experiences with it and how you and how we came to be.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

cuz that's exactly what I try and do I show up, I assess the structure and I will tell you if we can get it moved or not.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, and it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's a lot of moving.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's a ton of considerations, both for the current owner, as well as a perspective Shack's owner, you know, you have to make sure your site infrastructure can handle it, that it's allowed your HOA.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, there's so many moving parts, but it's not hard.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's just a matter of just doing it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And it's one step at a time and it's, and it's all of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

A little bit about my process.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I was working with the original person that you had, communicated with.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I was walking him through some of the things he was really helpful.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

He, notified me that he just wouldn't be ready and we would be in touch.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I was really, really grateful to actually get on site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So originally.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

my intention was to keep it in Teton county.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I thought that specifically with you and Laura being a local business owner and Laura working with the bank and you, you guys just being so local.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so the first open house that I did, I had six people who are interested and, three of them, I, so when we met.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I had my house mover, my structural engineer.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Who's Carri Molin with Sergeant engineers.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

He moved his grandmother's house and lives in it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And the wonderful thing about Carri and I is we don't agree on preservation.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We have opposing views.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

He thinks that it is only a labor love.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and I do not.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I think that there is much more to it than simply a labor of love, simply with land values and things of that nature that, but anyway, it's, it's really fun cuz we have this dynamic of, of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Anyway, he met on site with us and.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

First thing that he said, which I would not have known because I'm not an engineer, but that the roofs trusts were not engineered to bear the load required in Teton county limit.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm so immediately three of my people were out right out of the gate.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So now I'm down to three others and when it comes down to it, shack on racks has to respect.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Your timeframe, you told me the timeframe and I told you so I, my shock side of it is I will do it by this time.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I promise.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And so on the back end, you know, I'm frantically scrambling for a commitment from someone.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And so Katie, and Matt, are who took it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They, Showed up at the open house and were ready to make a decision within 24 hours and they made it and wrote me the most beautiful letter.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I would love to share it with you if I haven't yet Stephan beautiful letter of gratitude, housing, woes, and.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, just one of the most beautiful letters I've ever written.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I can't believe it was written to my organization.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

sometimes that is just way too beautiful to be true, you know?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Cuz it, Stephan, you just gave Matt and Katie, their very first home.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You and Laura gave them their very first home that they actually get live in together.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They don't live together right now because she's running a room and he lives in Boise and like, This legit, you brought a couple who they got married this weekend.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Nice.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yay.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's awesome.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They got married this weekend, so it was cute.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You moved on a house last month and this month they got married and it solidified.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

One more valuable, valuable member staying in our community because they have housing security.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm

Stephan Abrams:

that's I didn't realize that they just got married, this month and that's phenomenal.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

that, that, that happened.

Stephan Abrams:

yeah, please do I think, I remember reading the letter, share it with me again and, and.

Stephan Abrams:

Is she is Katie.

Stephan Abrams:

Okay.

Stephan Abrams:

If we share the

Esther Judge-Lennox:

letter publicly?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes, absolutely.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, she is.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Which, that would be really nice to do.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I'm trying Ryan and I are kind of brainstorming a way to do a like little thank you story.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I've never had enough time to thank anybody more than just like, you know, I send a card and that's about it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but I, I would like to do more.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Equally what you guys did, Stephan, the fact that you and Laura even thought about relocating it and tried it on your own before you came to me, you know, that is admirable.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's even more so than what most property owners are currently doing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Hmm.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And that's all that it takes you don't, you know, and for you, thank you for saying that the process was smooth and whatnot, but.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I want it to be, I need it to be, I need you to feel like I'm gonna come in and take your house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And like, here we go off, we go like, you know, I need you to feel that if you don't, you're not gonna let me move your house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

mm-hmm I mean, like, you know, which they are all different.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but

Stephan Abrams:

well, yeah, that's gotta be a challenge.

Stephan Abrams:

And so how many structures have you moved?

Stephan Abrams:

This year.

Stephan Abrams:

And so how many structures have you moved this year and how many pieces do you think it was as well?

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah, cause not every structure is one move mm-hmm

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So, in January, I hired, river escapes, glass, Jason Boyd, Well, let me start here.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

The nurses quarters, the historic nurses quarters at 1 65 Glenwood.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was our first apartment complex in Teton county.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was built as an apartment for the nurses at St.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

John's.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was directly behind the current St John's campus.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So it was 3000 square feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was over our height, our widths, everything about it was there's no way it's getting down the.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So Sr mills, the owner of the structure donated a hundred thousand dollars, community foundation accepted the donation, which was his dump budget.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

they accepted the dump budget and, The Lynn ranch took that Dwayne and Laura Meadows, took that and are making it their primary residence on the Lynn ranch.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but ultimately, the donation was huge.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

The house was huge.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It is the largest in all the ways, that shacks on access relocated thus far.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So I hired, river scapes glass who Jason Boyd and Patrick are just incredibly talented.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Men who dismantled the second story, because we were at like 28 feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So we, dismantled the second story and then ver with Teton transport, cut the first story in half.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And we moved that into parts.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So we moved the nurses quarters, which is about 3000 square feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We moved that it took 40.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It took between 45 and 60 days.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I should get an actual number on that from when we start to finish.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So we did that January and February.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I can't wait to see how that turns out, cuz they're gonna rebuild that second story and like, oh my gosh, I can't wait.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It'll, it'll be amazing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And then the next house that we did was, a beautiful hhe.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

The logs were sourced from the east coast.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Beautiful 600 square foot hand structure that was already set on skids.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Oscar and her husband will took that with Oscar's animals.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

She does the animal nonprofit in Victor.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so they took that gosh, that was in may, maybe.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And then we moved yours.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

No, we did yours in may.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So that was before then.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So Callahans was before then Callahans donated it to Oscar and will, thank you.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Callahans mm-hmm and then we did, you and Lauras.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And that was three sections due to our width we were smooth, sail in over pine Creek and, and into Victor.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And then I just got done moving one.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was a thousand square feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We had to move it in two sections.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

that came from 80 rancher.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and also I have to say which that went to Carla and will Stein Meer will baker and Carla Stein, Meer.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

oh, okay.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, she's a, she's a local CPA, but they have a three year old mm-hmm and her, and will have moved with little baby, like three times since he's been.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Whoa.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

so they moved it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They're gonna make it their primary residence.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They're gonna put a full basement underneath and, the little house on top and we're gearing up.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We're gonna do, a beautiful historic structure on Jackson street.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

we're very, very excited about it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

they're getting less historic or less.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You know, we're running out of houses like this in east Jackson.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm . Now we're getting into more seventies.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

The 180 rancher was built in 2010.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Stephan.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was 20 years old, not even 20 years old.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

No, it was 12.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

It's 12 years old.

Stephan Abrams:

The one from rancher was only 12 years old, but so my wanted to move.

Stephan Abrams:

They, well, they wouldn't need to get rid of it.

Stephan Abrams:

They wouldn't do something.

Stephan Abrams:

They didn't want that structure anymore.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So at the end of the day, there's a lot of reasons why shacks on racks exists.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And ultimately I see that there's a problem in my community.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm and I don't know what else to do.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Shas developed out of desperation to have a roof over my head and.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

you know, people ask why I keep doing it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And the only reason that I'm still moving houses is cuz people are still applying for demolition permits if it was Hansen.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And that was, it I'd have been done.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I would've, we would've said good job, Esther, pat, on the back, you did the thing and walk away, but people keep applying for demolition permits and I'm obligated.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

What else do I do?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, I am all I'm obligated.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I don't know by my heart and how much I care about this community and how much I care about people who work like myself, to be a labor, you know?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yes.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Being the only EPA certified right on mitigator is a big deal, but like, to be able to live and Teton county and do that is like, I mean, privilege upon privilege.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And it's only because I found an affordable way.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

To do it otherwise I couldn't do it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I can't build it a thousand square feet.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's no way you know, I it's okay that it works for some people, but it's working for less and less and less and less of us.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm

Stephan Abrams:

and what is it?

Stephan Abrams:

Is it the cost per square foot or is it just very per structure?

Stephan Abrams:

Mm-hmm of what it costs to move it,

Esther Judge-Lennox:

it varies.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm , you know, the garage on your house was slab on grade, so it costed more.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Then it did for the house pieces.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You know, if we break it out, it costs $60,000 to move your structure.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm it was in three pieces, but really the garage was more like 35,000 of it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And then the house pieces, because there's a floor in 'em.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So the slab on grades are harder to move.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We have to use more structural pieces to be able to beam 'em up and load 'em up and cause there's no floor.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So, it, it does depend, but it varies between $30 and, $50 a square foot

Stephan Abrams:

and their contractors are building now stick, build houses.

Stephan Abrams:

I think probably nothing under $900 a square foot.

Stephan Abrams:

Yep.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yep.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm I had a builder told me that seven 50 is as cheap as I'm going to find in Teton county right now.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm which I was like, even that I was like, okay, well,

Stephan Abrams:

yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

And it's it's mind blowing mm-hmm but it is where it is.

Stephan Abrams:

And, You're well, what you're doing is phenomenal.

Stephan Abrams:

you're finding opportunities for other people like Katie, like Carla, who the struggle's real, and they might have a place to put it.

Stephan Abrams:

And I guess if a lot of these houses, as long as it goes outta Teton county, it can still be used.

Stephan Abrams:

I hadn't until your engineer came over, it just shows how things have changed.

Stephan Abrams:

That when our house was built in 70.

Stephan Abrams:

It was structurally sound.

Stephan Abrams:

It met all the code, but in today's world, the trusses didn't meet code.

Stephan Abrams:

now we never had any problem with snow load.

Stephan Abrams:

but according to what our community wants now, it didn't fit the mustard now.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Well, and so let me point out Stephan, a couple things specifically about the Teton county demographic is that there's no incentive currently that I'm aware of.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

For you to save on site, especially if it's not historical a seventies house, but like, even if it was historical, you don't get a larger up zone.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You don't get an extra apartment.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You don't get an extra AU there's no, I didn't get.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Anything, but it made my heart feel good that I moved this house here.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm Teton county.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Isn't I had to bring it to code.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It was built in 1941.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It has to be, we moved it in 2016.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It had to be to code like no exception.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So, I think there is some really unfortunate things happening because there isn't incentives, whether it's to take it or to save on site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Why would you Stephan, had you opened your walls up in that house?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You would've had to bring it to code.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So if you would've done, like one of your neighbors, a few houses down has a cute little garage apartment above there.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like some of those, even those are becoming more and more unrealistic because the second that you remodel.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

and do additions.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You have to be to current code for you to bring that roof up to current code.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It's why no one moved it in Teton county.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

But even for you ju just if people are saying, well, why didn't Stephan and Laura say, oh, save on site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Well, that's one of 'em you would have had to reengineer the roof.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm like you would have had to.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Bring it up to electrical standards.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

If it, they weren't already up to it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like literally you would've had to look at that house exactly.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

As a new build, even if you were simply just doing an, an addition mm-hmm so for you, it makes it, you as a family sitting down being like, wow, I'm gonna have to re-shoot rocket.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I'm gonna have to reroof it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I'm gonna have to reinsulate it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I mean, I don't even know if those walls would've worked int in town limits to current code, so it's making it even harder for people to save on site who would choose to do that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Otherwise, you know, mm-hmm, because everyone's not a story here.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Y'all are, you know, this is of the better, more smoother of my stories.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Let me just say that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

, you know, I mean, you know, because we all have our own opinions in this and working with our own set of challenges and with our, anyway, I, I wanna say to anybody who would be like, well, why would step and Laura do that?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

It didn't pencil out for you guys to save on site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I think had you guys got some kind of incentive one way or the other, whether it wasn't bringing it all the way to code or it, it doesn't matter getting bigger or taxes or not having to pay the housing mitigation fee or like mm-hmm, something but even that, if any burden can be lifted through such a generous donation, I think equally that needs to be acknowledged as well.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

well, cause there's no reason for you to donate either.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm so there's no reason to donate.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's no reason to save on site.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's no reason to keep it outta the trash.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's no reason for me to take it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Why would I take something that was built 1941 versus literally just building something new that I didn't have the code issues on that I didn't have the thing.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And obviously it, it comes to.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's inevitably a tangible value to this fine builders are building at X amount of square feet, blah, blah, blah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's not what this is about.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

This is about y'all doing the right thing with your structure because you are giving this family something that is forever.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Powerful like forever mattered forever is and we need more moments like that.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We need more consciousness.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So there's been about 400 demolition.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Since 2013, I would encourage you guys to check out ShacksonRacks.com.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There is a demolition map on there and, Ryan Dogan, has mapped all of those out.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

You can click on the, there's a key to, what's been relocated reused.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There's like, they're all different colors with Coke.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

With color coded.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So I would encourage you to look at it, about 400 structures since 2013 and about 5% of those 5%.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And it's actually less, but have been, there were materials that been reused or have been actually relo.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

So that's the hard thing too.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I know that I'm doing good work and I know that what I do matters, but there is more houses than I could even begin to imagine to save.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Mm-hmm that?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

No matter what it's like still not enough, like we still have more houses going to the trash than I am able to move.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And it's heartbreaking.

Stephan Abrams:

It, it is heartbreaking, but keep in, keep in mind what you're doing.

Stephan Abrams:

Some is better than none.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Agreed.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And I agree, but you know, it's funny, there's been moments of like, Are you worried about people, you know, still in your work or blah, blah, blah.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I'm like, no, come, I want my community to look at our demolition permits.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I want people, I mean, they're there I'll show you where to get 'em to get all the same information that I'm getting.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like we should care about it.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We should try and do something fortunately enough.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I've streamlined the process with the engineer and the architect and the mover and everybody to just get the pieces in and.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We're able to meet the crazy deadlines, which is the most important thing is we gotta, we gotta move when moving, is necessary, you know?

Stephan Abrams:

well, I am very grateful for the work that you are doing Esther and.

Stephan Abrams:

You are on you're the social media master.

Stephan Abrams:

So share with people how they can find shacks on racks out there.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, absolutely.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

on Instagram @shacksonracks22, and I don't use Facebook.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

there is a shacks on racks, Facebook out there because it's connected to Instagram.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

there is zero messages.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

There is zero interface happening there.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

But you can find me on Shacks on racks 22 on Instagram.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And, also my website, which is, shacksonracks.com.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Please sign up for my newsletter.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We, do a newsletter which posts new demolition permits and, it gives everybody who's on the email, the email.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

To get dibs on a structure before I put it out to social media.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

If my direct list isn't picking up on it, then it gives you an opportunity to get on it before, all the houses, almost all the houses that I put on Instagram go that's but I put it on Instagram and it's like, we, I can find a taker.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's how I found Katie and Matt, Katie and Matt.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

We had not connected Briar.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

And I think they found me on Instagram.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I was doing the open house the next day mm-hmm and she literally, she was there.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

That's

Stephan Abrams:

awesome.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

I love it.

Stephan Abrams:

Well, Esther, I, I do appreciate the work that you're doing and, I do appreciate your time and, and taking the time to, to speak with me and thank you for moving our house and finding Katie and Matt.

Stephan Abrams:

And, we can't wait.

Stephan Abrams:

Laura stays in touch with Katie.

Stephan Abrams:

So when Katie has put it all back together, we're gonna go over to Victor and visit, yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

Can I come?

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Yeah, for sure.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

I'm actually putting that in my contract now is.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Like a year later, you have to let me back in the house.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

cause the one for the elk refuge, I moved the house to the elk refuge.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

They permanently expanded the habit border of the national elk refuge one acre, but it was all because of me.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

but they won't let me back in it now, which I'm like, guys, you gotta, lemme get my ask.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Bitchers anyway, lesson learned, I put it in the contract just like those Vesto.

Stephan Abrams:

Good work.

Stephan Abrams:

Well, we all learn with how to make improvements over time.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah.

Stephan Abrams:

Well, Esther, thank you so much.

Stephan Abrams:

You go have a great evening over there on hog island.

Stephan Abrams:

enjoy the rest of the sunshine, this beautiful sunny day.

Stephan Abrams:

And we'll be talking to you soon and see you around town.

Stephan Abrams:

Yeah,

Esther Judge-Lennox:

absolutely.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Thanks for your time Stephan and this was fun.

Esther Judge-Lennox:

Got

Stephan Abrams:

it.

Stephan Abrams:

Take care, Esther.

Stephan Abrams:

Bye-bye

Esther Judge-Lennox:

bye.

Stephan Abrams:

To learn more about Esther and Shacks on racks visit thejacksonholeconnection.com episode number 200.

Stephan Abrams:

Thank you everybody who helps keep this podcast on the air, the Jackson hole connection.

Stephan Abrams:

Of course, my wife, Laura and the boys that I love William and Lewis and my editor and marketing director, Michael Moeri I appreciate you sharing your time with me today.

Stephan Abrams:

Cheers.

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