Kimberly sits down with the boss of funny factual & comedy production company Rockerdale Studios Stu Richards, to talk (and laugh) about the absurd situations he's found himself in, the jaw-dropping way his company came into being, and why he only recently came out to the world as disabled.

Celeb namedrop klaxon & swearing alert!

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Episode guest info:

Stu Richards, Creative Director at Rockerdale Studios -

https://www.rockerdalestudios.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stu-richards-b0920118a/

A Talented People podcast - www.talentedpeople.tv / @talentdpeople

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Welcome to The Imposter Club, a podcast for people working in TV to admit that we are all just winging it.

I'm Kimberly Godbold, director Turn Talent Company founder and I glean secrets from influential

spoiler alert, more successful people than you'd ever realize, still feel like a fraud,

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This week's guest is the legendary Stu Richards.

Do you think, just because I've got a big microphone, I'm gonna be really good at this podcasting.

Maki.

It does look proper actually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Stu is a comedy writer and producer of sitcoms and funny factual.

He runs Rockdale studios with partner Michelle singer.

And they make stuff like mission accessible and dine hard with Rosie Jones, Bobby

I've helped him find development talent in the past.

And he was ACE on my Edinburgh TV festival panel because he's not afraid to say it like it is.

He loves a good sweat to stick your headphones on.

If you're around small people.

With his first baby due any day, I grabbed some time with GE to talk running with

And why coming out as disabled as he put it.

Was the best thing he ever did.

. Hasty.

Hello.

How would you feel about being part of the first series of the club for imposters?

I'm thrilled.

I'm absolutely thrilled.

It's like being part of the first, I dunno, the first task master group, or the first, I dunno.

The first show on channel four.

I feel like Richard Whiteley, that's

what I feel like.

We're gonna be that series that people go back to for like retro kicks.

Like, wow.

Do you remember when.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they, they hadn't really figured out how to do it yet, as you can tell by this episode

they

figured

it out in the

and me making up as a go along.

That's why I'm also part of the Imposter club.

So you run a production company.

We're gonna talk about your relationship with this feeling of winging it over the years.

How does, how does imposter syndrome manifest itself to you?

What do you think it is?

it's a sort of feeling of being out of place, I suppose, or not worthy of being in the place that you

worthy of a place, or that the very idea that there's some sort of objective classification of people who

And, and, and you've decided that you are not one of the, one of the good categories, I suppose.

Do you think the creative industry struggle with imposter syndrome more than most

Yeah.

Because, because of the nature of creativity is so, nebulous, I suppose.

You know, I've got accountant friends who spent years and they're still taking exams to that prove, you

You know what I mean?

You can, you can flag a whole career in this industry, which is one of the things I love

about it.

Yeah, we haven't done the exams, have we?

I don't know.

Have you ever had any official training over the years?

I dunno, but sustainability course recently, is that it?

So,

I dunno.

You definitely don't need to

feel like an imposter when it comes to environmental production.

but no one's ever, no one's ever formally assessed whether I'm any good at coming up with ideas for TV shows,

thankfully.

Now, I dunno if you could do that though.

It, like you say, it's so subjective, isn't it?

Like who, who is to say something's brilliant and something's awful?

I mean, How did you get into the industry to start with?

Came to, uh, big fancy posh university in London, ucl.

I did, uh, a course, it was called European Social and Political Studies, I certainly felt imposter syndrome there.

When I turned up on, on the first day, the, the everyone on the course was, super smart and fucking hot.

And like they all had these sexy European accents, and so they were all like these really impressive

I was just like, oh my, I'm like, a little ruddy ginger troll from Rochdale I'm supposed to have.

Supposed to sit in lecture theater with these people and well, to be honest, I think speaking

I think so.

I'm

not

What would you say if I told you, Stu, that I have a degree in modern languages, French and German,

, yeah, I do.

But to be fair, I don't use them.

I did flag, um, a job on a place in the sun because of them.

However, I didn't work on a place in the sun.

I worked on a place by the sea, which was in the uk.

So it

Well,

okay, so first job Intel.

How, how did you get it?

it was a runner's job on, uh, rich and Judy.

so My Cvf came for an interview, was a bit of a cup shot, and, uh, they heard me.

Yeah, I mean, its me three months later, I

should say.

Um,

think I, I really enjoyed sort of working on the production floor, Richard and Judy.

You know, he'd have all these sort of fun interactions with very famous

people.

Uh, Richard Mayley called me Chip.

He wants, I'll tell you

that.

ah, no, that's, that's,

I can't remember why I was, talking about where we were from and stuff and, and he, I think maybe

You're really bloody proud of where you're from.

Aren't you?

Like with a face as if to say that I shouldn't be, or, or that, or that I'm a

Northerner and he eventually sat me after three months because it was a few things in a row that were all just

So, um, there was one time where I caused us to miss a flight, a crewe to miss a flight to

Glasgow cuz I was taking a dump in the airport.

Um,

hoping the toilets not just in the airport.

Not on, not on the runway.

No, I wasn't.

I I've never sat on a runway.

That's one thing I will say about myself.

Um, and then there was another time where I, I, you know, they had the Rich and Judy

One time I had to transport some books from the office to her home, and I dropped one of them as I got out

I mean, you were a runner.

You, you were young, you were, you know, just trying to be helpful, right?

Or was this an attitude thing?

Stuart?

No.

I don't, I don't think I was like, I don't think I was like being a dick.

I, I just didn't think , I just maybe didn't realize how important books were, or I guess I

You know, like, I'm gonna take a dump, man.

Like, just so , I guess I, I didn't ever feel, and I think it was part of the reason I went into TV because

we're making daytime tv, which in Judy, it's fine if one of the books on their shows has a scuffed cover, it's,

Un I mean, unless you're, , I don't know, some important like news or something,

but

There are a lot of people, right, who are, you know, junior in the industry

And when you look back now, , do you think the attitude was cool, was cool?

Or actually would you do it differently?

God, what a question.

You're good at this.

You should do this professionally.

Um,

Thank you, Stu.

I saying, was I being a little prick give and, and not basically, uh, deserving of a

Yeah,

maybe.

I

think that's

That was your words,

I think that

that's absolutely fair.

Yeah.

I didn't, I didn't respect the job

very much, I

suppose,

you sound like you were very confident that that doesn't sound like you had any

it might be that, or it might just be more that I didn.

Have an appreciation for the stakes, I guess I just don't, we just think, I guess it did, it didn't seem

I don't think,

So I, I always thought there'd be a job somewhere else that I'll, that I'll get, I suppose.

Is that confidence?

Maybe?

Yeah, maybe.

I mean I, there was definitely a sense in which I looked at the work.

and I never thought this is that important.

Really in the scheme of things, in the, in the, in the context of I just don't

And, and that's one thing that I think hasn't really changed to be honest.

We're just making telly, do you know what I mean?

Like, and I think there's, there's exceptions to that, people who make incredibly important stuff.

But for the rest of us, we're just fucking about aren't we?

And we're if we tell ourselves that we went into this career for any other reason.

Do you know what I mean?

That's why we work in Tell, isn't

it?

I dunno.

Love that attitude . though.

This is a cool job, it should be a fun and cool job, right?

We're, we're putting stuff on that screen that people point their furniture at, , to entertain them in on

Or to make them think about something in a different way.

That's all entertainment, isn't it?

Totally, Totally,

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So you got your first, run a job at Rich and Judy.

Then you did a stint in development.

Did you always think that development was for you

off the back of that placement and development I did in Manchester, yeah.

I think it was very clear to me on my first day in the placement where it was ju it

That's the job.

Um, I think from, from then on, I knew that, yeah, that was absolutely what I wanted to be, what I wanted to be doing.

I just, I Couldn't believe that that was a job that you could have.

It's just not, it's not a job anyone ever talks about.

In fact, when I eventually went to be a comedy writer, again as a kid, you were like, you

You don't know that there's a guy in a room just sitting there writing them.

And, and it's same with ideas that there's just te there's teams of people who sit around going, what if, right?

What if ya sent, uh, Stephen Mulhern to the moon?

Right?

And well, the reason for that is something about, um, the future.

Could we live on the moon because we're, because we're destroying the earth or we need to live on the future?

And why?

Stephen Moore.

Okay.

Well maybe he did science at school.

Okay.

Okay.

And just people

just sitting there come doing that all day.

it is quite out astounding, isn't it?

That we can get paid for thinking about stuff like that.

Totally.

And don't get me wrong, it's hard to convert that nonsense chain of thinking

Of course it is.

But, but nonetheless, What was also starting me clear is that I wasn't caught out for

So, um, , so,

I mean,

So you, did you try for a career in production then?

But it just didn't pan out?

wow.

I wouldn't even say that it was just that you, you had to get jobs as runners or you had to get jobs.

As you know, the first junior development researcher I think was one job I.

I had, um, and I couldn't get through a month's probation.

I guess partly because I just wanted to be coming up with ideas and stuff.

But because I was at the bottom of the chain, my job was to make sure that everyone got the

And the, the right things were recorded on the sky plus box and burnt onto a DVD the night before and stuff.

And I just, and I just thought all of this is peripheral.

All of this is trivial.

Work that, that it, that, that someone who wants to show how hard they work would do.

And it just, and I just went to come up with ideas and I didn't see that all that stuff is valuable.

And I still feel that, to be honest, if, if I was hiring someone, it'd be a waste of of money, I

maybe that was a bit of arrogance, I suppose.

I don't know.

But not making it through your month probation, I mean, how shit do you have to be for that?

It gave me a warning.

Everything.

It wasn't even unfair.

It was totally fair.

They gave the woman, the, the HR person, she sat me down, she went, come on son, come on.

You know?,

it's,

it is interesting though.

It sounds like you were very confident in yourself and you knew what you wanted to do and you wanted to put that

of tow the line , or play the game, I suppose so it was like you were not prepared to do that because you felt you

But it's, what I find interesting is that, actually you, you still believe that in your company that

I think you are just such a creative

person.

I think that's true, but I think If I hired someone of that sort of level now,

Don't get me wrong, but I'm also looking for a bit of, um, sort of renegade spirit in them.

I am, I'm, I'm also looking for a bit of that.

I want them to follow orders, some shitty instructions that need to be done, but then other times it'll

Just tell me if you find me anything interesting or, them sort of that sense of, look just every

So they can have that spirit.

And that's, when I say I stand by it, I don't mean I did the right thing per se.

Obviously I didn't.

And that's why it was quite rightly sacked.

You stand by that renegade spirit thing.

Like you probably should have done more of what you were asked then, but actually the maverick

I think so.

Yeah.

It is certainly in, in creative jobs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the the other side to this is that I was just useless at a lot of production jobs.

I just wasn't good at them and I didn't have enough attention to detail for certain jobs

It's just not what I'm good at.

And so I think one thing that I've tried to do to my old career, it's focus on stuff that I am

Cuz that's, there's loads of people

that can do

that

stuff.

Yeah.

Did you, do you think you felt consciously at that time, early on in your career that you were winging it?

Yeah.

Completely.

A hundred percent.

I've always felt myself, my whole life to be winging it.

My, I I've never f actually that's not true.

Un very recently I've felt more comfortable, actually more like I sort of deserve a seat at

at The same time, my attitude to that was to be amused by it rather than to be intimidated I I sort of looked

That I'm in, you know, that I'm might be in a room with a bunch of posh boys in their fifties

, what does that even, you know, sort of, but find amusement at the very concept of not belonging and find

So it's something that you feel to be true, but rationally, I think when you lay it out or what does that actually

So in a sense, the more out of place I felt, the more I've enjoyed it, to be perfectly honest.

Um,

A nice sound bite.

I'm gonna use that, that's gonna be like a, a trailer teaser thing.

we were in a, we were in, we were in a lawyer's office recently, right?

Last year when we were securing a deal for investment in our company, me and my business partner Michelle, she's amazing.

Basically all the skillsets that I lack, she has, and we're in a, the lawyer's office signing a deal

and we're signing these big contracts and someone's running back and forward from like the fax machine

And we gotta sign it and get it back.

And we're in this lawyer's room and it's this sort of boardroom and a typical sort of lawyer's office.

Everything's calm.

There's no music, there's no sound.

Everyone's dressed properly.

And I'm walking around this boardroom just going, fuck me, what am I doing here?

But as I say, the follow up thought for that, for me, for that is not why I shouldn't be

Isn't that amazing?

I'm, I'm walking around the room.

They've got on the wall, they've got all these framed images of clients in the past and they're unbelievable people

It's people like one of the Beatles, it was someone like Jimmy Hendrix.

It was someone was someone from the Rolling Stones and there was like big act, massive actors from the past and stuff.

And I'm just going, these guys have signed a deal using these lawyers and now this little

And as I say, I think the next thought for some people is to be consumed by that, but for me it's to just find

Um, and that felt like the sort of, that felt almost like the peak of that out of Placeness.

that?

You never know.

The lawyers in that office might be doing that thing that, those lovely warm Italian

I, I, I went to lunch in, um, in London the other day and I was sitting in a corner with all the

just in

from the darkness.

He's always in

those pictures.

Just in from the darkness.

Especially any

Indian

places

in London, just in from the darkness.

And Jeremy Corbin.

Those are your, those are

your big two in the

Indian

place.

No, but you might, you well see, I grilled them on it.

I grilled them on every single one, actually.

And they didn't always know the answer, but of course, that's my nature when I should have been signing forms.

I was like, you know what?

When did you work with Ginger Baker?

One of the greatest drummers of

all

time, you

what was the deal you signed with Bono

But now there's lots of ordinary fake walk through the doors too, Stu, that's what my point in the Italian

I

was eating my pasta.

It's just the famous ones they put on the wool.

But I, that's a really interesting point though, that, so earlier on in your career, you were out of place and getting

That's kind of cool,

Because it gives you good stories as well, isn't it?

If you can say like, so you can say to your 24 year old mates, Hey, guess what?

Someone gave me a line of cocaine in Richard made these's dressing room last week, glads.

obviously, that that never happened.

No, of course it doesn't.

I'm saying if it did you'd have a story to tell.

And the point being, it's such an absurd story that rather than being intimidated by the surfboard in the corner of

You're sitting there and you're, you know, and you're talking to people at the rap party, like they, you

this was sort of probably just after extras, I think around that time where he was real sort of peak

Um, and I had this script sort of in my bag for some reason, and I waited until he left the table that he was at.

He was chatting to Rich and Judy and, so Ricky Jase gets up and leaves his seat and I think I'm gonna just like say

And I.

And he goes up, walks away and I go, oh, excuse me, Ricky.

Um, I'm, I've written a sitcom, would you mind signing it?

And he just turned around and went, sure.

But do you mind if I just go to the toilet first?

I'm like, I just, oh, it was just a hideous mo like, oh,

oh

god.

Poor man.

Just wants

he's gonna know that you are waiting for him to come out.

So we can't go and do a number two.

Can he?

So

I had to

leave

it

there.

Ah,

this is, there's another example where of I think, where that sort of imposter syndrome that could kick in.

But you, but if you choose to, if you choose to look at it in a way that you

I think that gets you through rather than being consumed by, by how overwhelming it all

can be

Yeah.

So it's how, how you handle it, isn't it?

And

everyone's different and that's, that's your co kind of coping mechanism.

this is The Imposter Club Coming up,

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Welcome back to the imposter club.

Where I'm talking to comedy production company, boss, Steve Richards.

He's just told me he chooses to laugh in the face of imposter syndrome and has

Tell me about how Rockdale came into being.

Okay.

, so I had become a comedy writer by then.

No thanks to Ricki.

Jase.

I had, in my previous job, I'd been working as a sort of development producer, development exec somewhere.

And one day I'd, I'd written a script on the, on the side, cause I'd been doing standup comedy.

And I'd met a friend over on the standup comedy circuit and we'd written a script together.

And one day I came into work and I said, boss, do you mind if I pitch this script?

And he just went fine.

It wasn't even, it wasn't a scripted company at all.

I worked in factual entertainment and all that sort of stuff.

Anyway, got commission.

We made a pilot and then it really went, it went down.

Well, the BBC liked it.

They commissioned it to a series.

So now I was a comedy writer.

Uh, which was just beyond my wildest dreams, is what is the one thing that I'd wanted to do.

I never really had too many goals or dreams, but that was the one thing I never really expected it to happen anyway,

I, I took it to a production company.

They said they wanted to option it.

They optioned it, pitched it around for nine months or 12 months, handed it back to saying,

We haven't had this commissioned.

And so I said, all right, fine.

Well, had did you pitch it to Viceland?

Cuz that's where I suggested they should pitch.

And they said, NA, but we didn't think they'd want it.

So that very day when the tape came back to me and the option has run out, I went to Viceland, pitched it.

So just as me, just as a bloke, they said, come in, we really like this.

and they said, look, we, we wanna make this.

At the time.

They made everything in-house.

And I said, look, I I, I don't want to make this in-house with you guys.

I want to make this with my own production

company.

And had you

thought

this through?

the night before, probably, or, and they said, they said, fine, you can make it with your own company.

But the thing is that was a massive lie.

Cause I didn't have a company, it was bullshitting.

I just, I was bullshitting.

I didn't , I didn't have a company.

I didn't know how to set up a company,

So you were in the meeting saying, I want

to my company to make this without a company

Yeah., so they went, all right, I'll tell you what we'll do is come and meet our international

And she just, you, when you meet someone who just knows what the hell they're doing,

And so now she's talking business at me and finance and stuff.

Something I know nothing about, because not only have I not run a company, but I haven't even worked

So she pulls out her card and says, look, you know, gimme a shout after this, uh, her business card.

And I sort of pat my pockets going, oh, oh, do you know what?

I must have run out of cards.

I must have handed them all.

And, uh, and I said, right, what I'll do is now that this is the one bit of planning I had done.

Cause then the, basically the, night before, I'd spoken to my now business partner, Michelle, who was

got commissioned, would you be for sort of coming on and, and just like production managing this show and

show

Wow.

Wow.

So, and what I hope

she

said yes,

yeah, she was

like, yeah, all right.

yeah, after that meeting I basically rango and it was, it was, Passover, I want to say she's Jewish.

So she was at her family doing Jew Jewish people things.

And I was like, oh, hey.

Um, so it looks like . It looks like we're making a series

and,

uh,

starting a company at the same time.

Yeah,

stu.

That is

utterly amazing.

That story, like, I

we then, we then, because what I didn't say is that we we had to, so the show was called Bobby and Harriet

getting married in real life and what the, the show was Narrativizing the lead up to their wedding, basically

Problem was, their wedding was in seven weeks time.

We had to start shooting within about a week or maybe two weeks at most.

And therefore we needed to get some, we needed to get their money into our accounts as soon as.

. But of course we didn't have an account cause we didn't have a fucking business.

So we had to set up an account as soon as possible.

We had like, I think maybe, I think maybe we had a weekend to set up an account cause

And so one day we, we, call up, I think it uh, one of the banks that Michelle had do dealt with in the past,

What can we do?

I'm online looking for any company that can set up an account like that.

Of course they're all proper Roby, Roby Banks who do almost no checks.

And we, so we thought, oh, what about the, um, the Metro Bank, they seem to be open at this time and

So, so we drive up to one in Woodgreen, I dash out the car, speak to them, they go, no, we can't

But there is one metro bank that can do this in time for you.

That's in something like Earl's court.

Right.

Okay.

Back in the car.

Zoom downs to Earl's Court.

Finally getting a meeting with, um, with Yare at Earls Court, Metro Bank.

Um, and, uh, I'm sitting there for an hour or so when he's going through all the checks and we're

We tried and we eventually, uh, I I, I get a voicemail on my phone while I'm speaking to Yara.

I said, Yara, do you mind if I just go to the toilet?

Cause I had a feeling it might be the original bank.

And I get a voicemail from the guy at the original bank going, Hey, that Mr.

Richards, I just wanna let you know I've got some good news for you.

Now I can't tell you what it is over the phone, but it's, it's good if you know what I mean.

Like, I think I'm might have saw solve your problem.

So I was like, okay, well they're gonna set up an account for now.

I had to come out and say to Paul Yare, who was gonna get all this nice commissioner was starting an account.

I had to say, mate, I've got a rush and.

I feel quite bad about this cause I just went a family emergency.

Yare.

I'm so sorry mate.

I've just got a run.

I've just got a run and then I dashed out,

spoke to the,

gathered up your utility bills and your

passport,

and this is Eric, mid, mid Formm on the computer.

Oh my gosh.

Do So you got, you've got the bank account opened via

mad

dashing around

open.

The, yeah, the money came in a few days later and we started rolling a couple of days

after that.

if,

If that's not the definition of winging it.

I dunno what is,

You talk about imposter syndrome, but I, that was me being a, a, a quite literal

Like, I, I was saying I had a company, I didn't have a company, so,

I have massive respect for, for what you did there and obviously you've got, you've gone on to make

I mean, is there a danger that by telling these sorts of stories with.

Telling people to just flag their entire careers.

I mean, there's gotta be a foundation, right?

I suppose that's what I'm getting at.

You've

gotta know that you

can

I comes back to my, my theory that most things, most jobs in TV aren't that hard really?

And that you can sort of figure most stuff out.

. This is what I think when people are very protective about their specific profession int tv, you

Yeah.

So people can't hack it, but a lot of people can.

And that, those are the good, those that was who you separate the good people from the puppy.

Most people can figure stuff out.

When, when I hire someone relatively junior, I'm as much looking for their smartness and their ability

Cuz whoever you hire, it's g, they're gonna have to do something that they've never done before.

. And so you can tell the difference when you, when you ask someone if, if I'm interviewing someone who's

There's, you get, there's two, there's three taps of responses.

One, yes, I absolutely do this, or no, I dunno how to do that.

And then my preferred response, my favorite response is, no, but I'll figure it out.

a YouTube tutorial for whatever it is I'm asking them to do.

They'll go, no, no, no, I haven't done much of it, but I'll suss it out.

And you can tell by the way they say it, that that's, that, who is in a sense of flagger, but, but it's also someone

I guess Ultimately, I I probably already had a, always had a certain confidence in

I mean, I failed several times.

That's why I got sacked loads of times in my career.

Don't get me wrong,

Are the stakes really high or higher now that you run your own company?

yeah, yeah.

Much higher.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I sort of have to know what I'm doing.

Um, No, that's not true.

I'm probably just a chancellor in different ways actually, in terms of the punts that I'll make.

I mean, the other thing is, I, I have brilliant people around me now, and that's, that's another,

If you can't do stuff, just hire someone who can, you know what I mean?

specifically, Hire smart people.

If you surround yourself, I guess with, with smart people, ideally people who are smarter

I think

I think it's the, the

most underrated,

quality is a sort of trust and delegation.

? I think that the thing about surrounding yourself with good people is, is fab.

And also supporting them, you know, the scenario you just talked about the person who says, I

That's all, that's all very well, but you also need to support that person, don't you?

, if they don't figure it out, then you think they're a failure and actually no one's really talked about it

. Stu: I think as much as anything, just back is

I think ultimately there's that you want to feel rated by your boss, and when you do that,

I mean, look, I'm not suggesting for one minute that I think someone who's never picked up a camera can become

Are problem solvers, aren't we?

Intel?

That's what I think.

I quite like a, a drama to go, do you know what?

We can sort this by tomorrow.

It's gonna be fucking hard, but we can do it.

Totally.

And ultimately, , my goal with the company is to hire myself into obsolescence.

Is that on the, on

the tagline of your

website, .The Rockdale

Studios run by Stu Richards.

My goal being

Yeah.

That's, that's my, that's my sort of equivalent to Ted Lassos belief.

It's just hire me into obsolescence.

And then be the boss of everything but do nothing

Exactly

that.

Just walking through an office, I always envied, you know, when you see an exec producer in an

Not actually doing any pieces of work, but just making decisions.

I always quite fancied that,

You definitely have to have a camera in your face and be panning backwards a as you're

do that.

Take a

left, take a right.

Have a coffee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know that shot.

It's sort of

West

Wing

Yeah.

So we're talking about people and surrounding yourself with people that you rate, but

What you get is what you see kind of person.

Now, it wasn't all that long ago that you publicly talked about your disability.

out as I came out as disabled, is how I

phrased it.

Yes,

Yeah.

And that, that to me is kind of, Well, it was, it was huge for you.

I know that it, it was also huge for little people around you, but it's also quite

The listener will now have got to know you a little and you are like exactly as you

So how did you hide your disability for such a long time and what that must have had an impact on your.

Well, I guess the, I mean the, the simplest answer to that question is, is because it's an

Um, one of the things I do is basically is move around a lot.

, this chat we've had here is the longest that I will sit down in any, in any given run all day.

And so I'm always up on my feet.

I suspect people probably did see that.

They just didn't know why I was, I was doing it.

But also I never considered it a disability, to be honest.

I, I've been in pain since I was 17 and I don't know why, but I never considered it a disability and it

Hey, Rosie, I'm, I'm thinking about sort of like coming out and saying, I was saying I'm disabled cuz

And she just she started taking the piss out is what she

did.

That sounds very rosy.

we started taking the piss out of me saying, well, why wouldn't you?

And then she told me why I wouldn't, which was a sort of , a sort of ableism.

In my mind, because what I was worried about was, well, look at me.

I'm running about, I play football ev you know, several times a week and, and stuff like that.

And, and she went, well, so what, like, what is, is it, is it that you only see disabled people

Or is, is that a disabled person in your mind?

She said, well, look at me like I'm, am I not disabled?

I live independently.

I do everything myself.

And anyway, she continued like this and roasting me for quite some time, um, before we eventually

And then she, um, promptly proceeded to welcome me to actually called it spas Club.

We meet in the park at 5:00 PM every Friday and dribble on each other.

very much her

She's

Um,

she's awful.

So, um, so , so yes, I sort of came out and it changed.

everything for me really in terms of, uh, um, in loads of ways, in terms of, well, personally, in terms of just being

You know, I'd always been open about it with my wife, I suppose, but, but, and I

But weirdly, I, I was, I, I felt more comfortable in admitting ways that it affecting me because I think

of a gob shy, um, it, it's hard to imagine that someone like me is just sitting here being in pain, but I am

And I, and I don't sort of hold that against anyone because frankly it's the same for me as well.

You just look at me, how can this guy be in pain?

Look at him, just shine shy for an hour or whatever.

So on that personal level, it enabled me to open up really to my wife, my friends, my family or whatever.

I think I'm probably on some level myself to sort of maybe give myself a bit of a break, a bit more professionally.

It opened up a lot of opportunities, to be honest, to be, to be perfectly blunt.

It helped, and I knew it, what I said I said, look, I know now that this is gonna open me up to all sorts of

And did I feel a bit weird about that?

Yes, I absolutely did.

But at the same time, it's funny to look back at it actually.

I sort of realized that, oh, I'd, oh, I've always been working in and developing ideas

Who had, who had cerebral palsy, but goes around being a bit of a prick to people, essentially.

Sort of like a young disabled Larry David.

, and that was the first sitcom I think that had a lead with cerebral palsy ever, I think, and we made

Thank you.

But it, but it was sort of obviously mischievous and stuff.

None of that work had been boohoo poor, disabled boy or girl.

And so I'd always sort of worked in that area.

And also hiring people who were disabled behind the camera has always been something very important to us and stuff.

So I, I, I guess this is, even now, I'm still justifying to myself like this, this is what I'm saying now if I'm honest.

It's me desperately trying to justify my use of that, of the word, which tells you I'm probably still

, but it also, something that completely changed my perspective on this.

Last year I went to the Edinburgh TV festival with a group of, um, disabled, sort of fairly senior disabled

Castle, Nicola Guard and Kate Monaghan, and just this brilliant bunch of people who I hadn't really known

And there was something about spending time with them and being part of a community like that that.

So, because if you're just a fucking middle class white bloke like me, you've

You've had all the privileges that come with that, but you never know what it's

And I was like, holy, these shit, these people are incredible.

And they've all got such a great sense of humor.

They're a bunch of, goby brilliant, mostly women, I don't know, something about being part of that

Because so much of what you are, so much of what we, , sort of exposed to or come into contact with

or, or, or stuff in the papers or whatever, it's sad or it's serious to be part of this group of

You can, you can be part of this community, but also you can be like this.

And, and to what I mean, to all those guys, to them that's, it's an obvious reality.

Most of 'em have been disabled, but all on, or not most of their lives, and they've always been like that.

But for me, sort of being this weird, what felt like, I was gonna say intruded, maybe imposter

Coming into this sort of space and this group of people, it was such a, just a real, I don't

I guess helped me accept myself on a personal level in, in that sense and, feel more justified in,

And, and I, I'm convinced that people that sitting there looking at me going, this guy's disabled.

You, sh you sure about that?

I sort of wouldn't, wouldn't blame them, I suppose.

Cause we all have those sort of ableist perceptions of what a disabled person looks like.

What's become increasingly clear to me is that I'm still working this out in my head.

And I think that's what's happening right now, like a form of therapy now.

This is what this podcast has

become to me.

I

do like to remind people at the beginning that I am, I'm not a qualified therapist, but I'm a good listener.

No, but I do, I think what you've just said I find really interesting is that, um, despite not

of other developments, I'm sure that you have been involved in, that have centered around the lived

No.

And so you were, you were expressing yourself and your own experiences in the dark whilst being that

included in a team to make content and to come up with ideas and, and have the right angle on stuff that is

So without you even knowing and putting your hand up and going, I'm that person on your team that can do this.

You were doing it and no one knew that actually it was you going through it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is also kind of weird that you felt like an imposter in a group of disabled people

Sitting on a panel going, people are gonna wonder, you know,

that I don't look

disabled.

yeah, yeah.

one of my favorite moments, one of my favorites of the group, her name's Kate Monahan.

She just looked at me.

She was sitting in her wheelchair at the time.

She just looked up at me.

She went, Stu?

What's your disability?

It was one of my absolute highlights and I ju and I sort of explained to her, oh, I have sort of chronic back pain.

She just went, all right, cool.

Like that . It's just a sort of directness that like, I dunno, that felt within that sort of community,

community like that.

uh, I know it's incredibly personal, isn't it?

But what would you say to, someone else who has an invisible disability and is nervous about talking about

Ah, good question.

It's really hard to give generalized advice there because the temptation is to say, just come out.

Come out, say it, come out, do it.

But I realize that it isn't always that easy and there are some companies that just don't know how to respond to that.

I think we're at a very.

Particular time in the sort of course of, disabled workers in TV history, which is to say, I I dunno,

It's just that we sometimes don't know what to do with them when we, when we've hired them.

the, the, I guess the crucial maxim here is, ask them what they need to do their

Like, that's it.

But we don't know how to do that yet, I think.

Is

I completely agree.

Yeah.

So there's still a lot of work to be done amongst employers, to do with supporting and reasonable

It's something that my team and I are really comfortable with now cause we've had lots of

But yeah, I think the will, the intention is there to employ more diverse teams, more disabled people specifically.

There's still not enough opportunities of course, and there are still biases that run Riot, but there

but you're right, there's no point getting people into these jobs and then not

For both parties.

It's not good for the employee and the employer goes, oh, well that didn't work, did it.

Which is really unfair.

So, no, that's, that's where I think we're at.

So in terms of advice then I think if you are comfortable, which you may not be

I think the, the cynical side to that is I think most people at the moment are wanting

I would use that.

On the whole work position now, where I think it will prob probably work for.

more often than it does against you.

but I totally appreciate if people aren't just willing to play those odds and they've been burned enough before.

There are a lot of employees who are scared to say the wrong thing.

Right.

And that, that is probably a legitimate fear.

But I, I have learned to just feel the fear and do it anyway because, you know, you might not get it, you

And it, again, it's personal, so it's far

better to talk about it than

not.

That's the thing you can see when someone's being a dick.

If someone's, if you're talking to someone and they sort of say the wrong word and they go, oh shit.

Sorry, I'm, I'm, you know, they're not trying to be a dick.

And I think you'd be quite sort of

forgiving to that, whereas someone might use perfect language, but essentially, taking the actions of an

flourish.

I, I like that Perfect language, but actions of a, of an asshole

that's great.

, is there anything you wish you could tell the younger Stu?

Now,

Don't say anything Libelous.

Um, There's a lot of creeps in comedy.

Just try not to have too much respect for certain individuals.

Someone's been involved in a show.

Maybe they made one of the most biggest sitcoms in the world, and you have a lot of respect

Nobody in this industry is worthy of that much respect.

Apart from Alison Hammond,

I dunno why I thought you were gonna say like, so David Attenborough

no Hammond, nobody is worthy of that much respect until they've owned it with you.

Of course, I

mean,

Oh, you do make me laugh.

Well thank you Stu.

I I've really loved getting to know you and I think what you've done with Rockdale Studios and what you and Michelle

Inspiring and the stuff you make is funny and the people that you know are funny and you remind us to have a good

difficult moments and getting sacked and resigning and, you know, winging it via making up the fact that you've got a

I mean, all this stuff shapes who we are.

, I really appreciate your time and I, I, I think you're super cool and now you can v vape away, you know,

I'm enjoy my final vaping before,

the baby

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

Good luck with the baby.

How long till he or she is due.

I mean, literally any

day

now.

Oh, and then you're gonna go back to square one of, um, imposing in your real life.

We've only talked about it at work, you wait until you're a dad.

Thank

you,

Stu.

Thank

you very much.

This has been lovely.

Thank you, Kimberly.

Right.

Come on in post is let's get everyone talking about this stuff more.

Open up your WhatsApp groups and tell your production pals.

They need to listen to the imposter club.

Everyone loves the podcast recommend, and this is so relevant for them.

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