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Honest Talk About Relationships, Heartbreak And Dating - Rob McPhillips EPISODE 36, 2nd February 2021
The Artisanal Relationship
00:00:00 01:43:32

The Artisanal Relationship

In this episode we talked about creating an Artisanal Relationship. That is a relationship that is perfectly designed for you and your partner.



Welcome to The Thing Free Rebellion. The podcast for independent thinkers to rebel against ignorance, manipulation, dogma, doctrine and the fears and temptations that stop us being ourselves and living our best lives. Good to make relationships, simple dotcom to join us at an event or find more information. Tonight, we're talking about autism relationships and priorities, know what I mean is that most people do things by default, so most people basically go along with a condition that go along with what everyone else tells them, like from the media and so on.


So. We've become in commodities world where everything can be manufactured and comes off cheaply and most efficiently and most effectively, there's become a great market for artisanal products, for things that are down the traditional way hand with great skill, with great care. And of better quality, so. I look at a lot of people, the relationships in by kind of like the rights of our culture, and it's it's that they it's like a diamond engagement ring. It's with a big, expensive wedding.


It's with the big house or the big car and luxury holidays as as if they're the things that are going to make you happy. And by contrast, I think an artisanal relationship is where you get to skilled, like relationally skilled individuals who build the relationship. That's right for them that they can both thrive in. And so it's it's custom built and it's built with skill. It's distinctive and it's disregards the traditions or the customs that doesn't serve. So you were talking in breakout rooms about five qualities and I went into his room, really just see how or where you were four times and I went to bring you back and it looked like you were agreeing five between each of the group.


Is that. Is that OK? Right, Stewie, can we have a spokesperson for each? Yeah, I don't mind being a spokesperson for my group. Sarah. If I say, OK, great, OK, I think you've got the the go ahead. So what about Sandra? Who was it? It was, yes, Fernando and Sandra. Really small group. Sandra, would you like to be there? I think she's looking for the mute button.


Yeah, that's all right.


And we have a problem, Alan, the eating group. That's right. The the most social group. OK, are you happy with that, Alan?


Yeah, I will go. All right.


So let's have Sandra arole and Sarah. OK, so we'll have a discussion of the five qualities. So if you each argue your case. And let's see how different they are and what we come up with. So should we go with case? Should we go? Ladies first. We start with Sarah, Sandra and in our bringing up the rear. OK, we thought I'm going to take one of the top qualities from each person because we didn't come up with for you a group, we have five each.


We got 15. But I'm going to take one from each of us is fair but playful enough so I can just put you Sarah.


OK, so Nicole and Janosz were in your group one night, so you can private message, Sarah, if you want if you want to change or whatever, as she's explaining. Sorry. Go on, Sandra.


Now, Sarah. Sarah. Sorry, silly asses.


Yes. No worries. So playfulness, we thought, was a really major key ingredient in the relationship. Obviously this the time to be serious reason things, but also that needs to be some levity and a way to diffuse any conflict and not to make fun, but to keep it. Levity, I think is crucial. I so would that also be classed as far Manuma? But, you know, playfulness might be something more reciprocity, like humor can come from one person but might not be shared.


But to be playful, I think we were assuming there was some reciprocity in, you know, OK.


Should I go on to the next keep kind of something that would have been not even something that I would have considered years ago, but now I'm getting it all the this is so for you to say compassion and Collimore. And we also mentioned all these things like acceptance, support, all come under the umbrella of kind of unconditional love. That was a really big one that came out of great, unconditional love, that what that means is when someone is really feeling depressed or down and not to criticize this kind of compassion, it just is such a long way to relationship.


OK, we're going to limit you two to five, though. Yeah.


So I think I've said so.


I've just crossed the last one of them, which won the unconditional love or no compassion, compassion, just cross compassion if we don't need compassion for every animal. OK, ok.


Thank you. We'll be back. We'll be back to you. OK Sandra.


OK, I'm going to leave out the ones that Sarah has already made and now you got to pick five.


Right? So I'm going to give those two undercity. So we're going to refine to five from everyone. Yeah.


OK, Fernando, give some very interesting insights, which I think I will use as the first three.


He talked about personal development as being important to somebody who is evolving, but not only evolving in of themselves, but enabling you to also grow by encouraging you and. Participating in your evolution as well, which I thought was quite, quite nice. And from that, he also brought up in this. Evolution, bringing about increasing compatibility as a couple within the within the couple. Yeah, we are growing more together rather than growing apart. So I suppose in that sense, your evolution is in parallel, in a way, if you look at it, it's congruent and then, of course, looking at.


Beauty and beauty in the person, and that embodies not just not the physical, not just the physical, but the spirit, a sense of self and what they add to the relationship, which would embody the whole thing about humor and all of those things. Right. Right.


But, Fernando, so physical and emotional and spiritual and spiritual. Yes. Yes.


And kindness and all of those other attributes. And then for me, I thought of confidence.


And having the confidence to nurture your own individual growth, but no, it is Fernando, in a sense, having that confidence to not.


Restrict your partner's journey, your partner's evolution, so confidence and then social conscience is the other one which speaks to things like love of nature, treating people with respect.


I think that is that five. Yes, those five. OK. All right. OK. It's interesting because when you look at your list, there's going to be a very different person from Sarah as groups list. Okay. Thank you, Errol.


OK, so we thought loyalty was one of the key attributes that I don't think we went blind loyalty, but loyalty in the sense that the person is committed to the relationship rather than always being somewhere else. Maybe the other one we had was trustworthiness, under which we kind of saw things like integrity, honest old being part of the overall general approach as well. The other one we had was supportive. So the person is there for you when you need them.


We and also loving, caring potentially about kindness, as I think Sara was talking about earlier on. Well, being in the sort of supportive that that person is there for you, that will help you hopefully.


Um, he almost certainly came into it, but didn't quite label it playfulness. But I mean, being from person to be around with rather than just looking off until the time kind of depressing. And the other one we had was communication, somebody who was communicative, who will maybe express their feelings or express their thoughts. I mean, I don't think we meant verbal diarrhea, by the way, like me, but something a bit more, a bit more, sort of somebody that gets their point across so that, you know, you can understand them.


You can kind of understand how they're feeling and how they are thinking. Then I'll ask you to spot any issues or positives or whatever so you can kind of feel more bonding in that sense. That's kind of our five, I think three. Well, you got you got you got five I'm now thinking of.


OK, right, so we're going to go back into the breakout rooms, but I believe there is it should be it depends on the variables that you've got, but you should be able to move between the rooms. OK, we'll get it, we'll go back into the breakout rooms, so I'm putting down the.


Qualities of each group. So each person who read out the groups knows what their qualities were. Yep, yep. OK, so what we do is we'll go into the breakout rooms and now everyone of Iroh, Sandra and Sarah can move between the groups. And what you're going to do is listen to each person's pitch and choose the partner that you would you would pick if you had to pick one of those partners who embodied all of those things. So that makes you realize this was going to be a dating game?


I no, I would have preferred that.


I recognize that's the ultimate stitch me up here.


OK, so we said we're going to go back to the main groups, but then you should be able to listen to farmwork. How? Like a picture of what someone would look like. You've had all those qualities and then you listen to each of them.


And so we're trying to convince them that the person that we have kind of created is the best person to be with. This is like blind date and you are person number three and everyone else is going to listen instead of going instead of being a just on. Well, the answer is yes, it is pitch and what that person would be like. So so is the only arrow. Sarah and Sandra and everyone else can ask questions, pick holes, and you've got to decide which one you're going to stick with for life.


OK, well, I'll be jumping in and out of the breakout rooms.


So when when we do that, we go into like one room each and how are we going to make it in the room? Are you going to tell you can you go back in the same breakout rooms? And it should when you were in that breakout room, you should be absolutely cutting breakout rooms or it should have an option of joining the different rooms and said any conflict between them.


So try it. Where do you find that? I'll come into the groups and I'll show you. You're going to contestants want to move. No, no, you ask questions and then when you think, OK, so does everyone know, OK, I've got to finish the qualities of my schema communication.


Wouldn't it be better if people started in different rooms because I a up and I discussed this five interests is looked like by the right person, but it may be that they need to kind of hear the other file first. Then what? Like some sort said.


Yes, but we're going to start off in your room. But my expectation is that everyone's going to move the room straight off because of that reason and see if I can get a better option.


The popcorn doesn't count. You can't bribe everyone to get the roast from the end. Yeah, I do have some roast chicken roast potatoes. No.


Yeah, sorry, you can't jump to that because. Sorry about. I was I was going to leave the apple crumble for later, actually, because I also I baked as well apple crumpling cream.


Actually I like it with ice cream but my book that's not playing fair I love is not fair.


All right.


So who's fair in love war. OK, so I've got to make a pitch to convince somebody that I have the right set of.


Yeah, they might ask you questions. Hi, Betty. Did you catch up with what we did, you get a hello, did you get a grasp of what we doing?


H.S and qualities of your ideal partner?


Yeah. So these are the kinds of groups that speak five qualities that if you were stuck and you can't commit to this person, you've got to stay with them for life and there's no get out. So I'm going to join you to a group where you can move between them to whoever you think has the best options. Right. So we should listen to the fact that they've chosen the and you want me to say which ones I think are the best?


Yeah, you got to pick the person who embodies one of those. The person. Yes.


So you imagine that he's a person that embodies all those characteristics, you see. I pick one of them. OK. All right. I'll see you in the room at. I think this everyone back. I'm not allowed to alter my yes, yeah, you can kill as well as any of the others.


If I get rid of this, if I get rid of this people, can you see the pile? Yeah. Now you can pick one and you have to stick with that.


OK, Sandra, you're not allowed to do that. Oh, boy, look, look, apple crumble.


OK, I appreciate I've got a 17 year old at home, but yes, I do. Well, to crumble wins.


OK, look, I mean, I was going to get the cost of the local ice cream, but eating, although I broke up.


But you've got to have every night microwave ovens, Rob, that that was not quite fair.


But I think in fairness, Sandra is the only person who didn't try to bribe people into her groups while I was there.


Sarah had a little is still up.


Oh, wow.


OK, next on the ladies ladies, this is not fair. I think he was the first one who started it with the roasted pumpkin.


You mean my trip to Jamaica didn't hold any sort of love?


OK, right. So. Well, we have a tie. We have a tie. A three way tie. Oh, OK. Right. OK. So do you want to comment on that or what you would say, because what I'm saying from the lists is quite different person. So Sandrich person is very.


Very growth orientated, you could imagine them like going to seminars, you can imagine them working, like doing charity work or having a very health conscious type business.


Is very playful, very loving, but may lack some of the growth orientation. Aeros group is, again, very supportive. They have more Uma's. Yes. So Aros and Sarus a very a lighter. They have the communication skills. So I think one of the things to look at in this is. Which of these qualities are foundational, as in, you need them to build others, which is in the consequences and which of them are outcomes? The apple crumble is foundational, definitely.


But on that note, I've got to go, I'm really sorry, guys, is being really careful. I'm taking my Mochis store and I'm getting the hell out of there if you never give us a price.


But anyway, I have a good evening. Bye bye.


We can look at which quality. So what I'm asking you to do now is to look at, um, which are initial foundational ones, which are qualities that are a response to something else and which are an outcome.


Can you put those in the chat box? Well, you just said yeah. Can you see them on the screen? Yeah.


Sorry. You said which ones are. Yeah.


So what I was going to do was put it in a box that a foundational. A box, that is. And you also explain a bit just so that we have a common understanding of what is what, I understand it in a different way that you do, guys. Yeah.


OK, so we've got. Some qualities are foundational. They they look at the base, they start something, and then you've got some qualities that are a response. So. I would look at loyalty as being a response. I think loyalty comes from trustworthiness. I think if you have a foundation. If you have a foundation where you're trustworthy. Then people trust that. And then I think trust when mixed with respect. Creates loyalty. Whereas I would look at unconditional love as being an outcome.


But you have to give in order to receive us from. Trade can potentially. OK, are you are you able to are you able to use this to write on it and going through there? Does anyone look at any of them? So let's let's look at personal development. I can oh, hang on.


Maybe I can do that. So just kinda like Presta and then just thoughts and see what I can read on the word of God.


OK, so let's look at personal development, is that a foundational? Is it response, an outcome?


It's an outcome. It can be an outcome, but it has to come from the person. But it has to.


Yeah, it's what it is an outcome of behaviour.


It's a behaviour which is coming from the personality.


Yeah, I think it's foundational, which is one and growing up.


And I think that there's like a gross mindedness and I think that is probably Bill. And of course, there are times when people can, because of the response, become more. Interesting developments of what an inquiry, what about growing together outcomes, not just what sort of response does personal development give them and what can be at personal personal development?


Might you grow since President, would making your best version of yourself when you become a best version of yourself, supposedly that makes you more in love.


So what would what would determine your response to personal developments if someone shows up with personal development? So I'm guessing as a group, we're probably quite interesting in developing ourselves. What has been the outcome for you in what's been the response in relationships, like have people responded to that? Or if they just feel, I don't know why you've written that, I'd rather read my clicking excited excitement.


No, it depends on the person. I've had an insecure person just totally rejected that.


That that that because that it sounds as though that personal development that your back and whatever that process is, is going to make you outdo them.


Yeah, I think that one sorry, I had great curiosity.


Every time that I tell people that I'm going to meet ups or reading about dating or relationships, people are quite interested in it. But that's my feedback from friends.


And I think it depends on I think it depends on the person.


And I think some people who are interested will be curious. I think Sandra says some people will. Yeah, I think so. I think I think growing together, I would put that as an outcome. I think you've got to take people who are in special talent. What about ABC? We're not talking remember, we're talking about emotional, spiritual and possibly physical beauty. And you know what? Yeah, that's called be foundational, has that confidence. Malcolm, isn't it?


It could be a pond as well, but it has to be a front bench from the person coming, if the person are not confident itself, it's going to even approach you. OK, let's look at this, why are there situations where you're confident I know there are situations where you unconfident anyone always confident?


No independent, because confidence depends on a domain, it depends on the environment, depends on the people response down to the situation.


Yeah, I think I think by making someone feel safe, they enables them to feel confident they could point. And I think. In the sense of someone can feel insecure, but because someone else has a different view of them, they can grow into that and then become more confident because of the relationship. So I think that probably straddles the other two. And it can also be found because it can someone has to have the confidence for someone else to have the confidence.


If that makes sense, that's spawned because it's responding to the environment. Yes, I think it is, but then I think I think part of whatever part of what they want, they. Sorry, sorry. But can someone someone speakers, speakers. And it's uncomfortable in my. I don't know. I don't want to listen to. So say let me just try making everyone OK. That's better. So. I forgot what I was saying, that we still on confidence.


OK, so, yes, I think confidence can straddle or all of them, I think unless someone has the confidence, as Janell said, like they wouldn't approach them, but also like if you got to totally unconfident people and no one's going to make a move, nothing's going to happen. And. It takes a certain level of confidence to create the environment for some of little safe. Social conscience, but also personal development feeds into confidence as well.


You have to have a level of confidence to believe in yourself that you can make a difference. Yeah, yeah. Social conscience, I think we're looking at.


Response, how come it could be any one of them, really, does anyone have any strong views of where I sort of feel it's foundational myself? This is kind of like training to the core values of someone to agree to that playfulness.


That's foundational as well, I think. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, again, it can sometimes be responsible. Someone has to bring it first. Yeah. Kindness. Foundational. Acceptance. It's not a response. I think in most cases it is it can be foundational if someone like you say these Buddhist monks are not really accepting of everything, but I think in my is probably going to be a response. What about a support? I think a supportive person tends to be a person who is kind in the first place.


Yes, kind of we're not kind, you will.


And if you're not a kind person, I would think that it would be very hard for you to be supportive of of most things.


OK, I'm going to put unconditional love as an outcome. Does anyone disagree? Well, someone did say that. Maybe Janell said you have to bring in Fernando, you have to bring it. You have to have someone has to be unconditional.


So unconditionally loving. Or is that I mean, I don't know that you can unconditionality pretty ominous, as you say, it's an outcome because of what's happened is due to historical events and your own experiences. You love the person wouldn't say unconditional because things may change. But assuming that things were so positive that you feel a very strong love towards some sort of an outcome. What's happened in the past?


Okay, Locy, we talked about money. Do do like to. Yes, I know the response was I trust trustworthiness is foundational, I think that anyone disagree. We've done supportive cameras similar to playfulness is not foundational now and communication. I think that's a response. Yeah, how is communication a response? I don't that explanation. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But I'm not saying that there are people that are more open to communicate.


So that is like a characteristic. I think it's it's it's a learned behavior in a relationship, though, in some respects, because it's it's I mean, you can become more communicative in accepting supporting type relationship.


Well, you could say that about lots of things, Clojure. You cannot if if your communication is foundational, then you can kind of turn around and say, you know, look, I don't feel I can speak my voice in this relationship because I don't feel supported. I feel victimized. So that's kind of communicating. It's harmful.


So I think the question to clarify is, would you do it in all contexts or is that like is it are you more convenient to give in some context and less than another? Yeah.


So if someone is in communities, if back, do you stop being communicative if you don't feel safe. The. That's in your personality. But on the subject and white, I think this straddles all three, really, because if you're not naturally communicative. It's you could become communicative if you felt safe and you would talk like your partner modeled for you. And if you're if neighbors communicative, then there's not going to be a communication response. So I think there has to be some there.


But then I think the response depends on how well the communication goes. That fits into both then. I think that's one that's quite difficult. I would personally I would put it as I would put it, as a response or actually in my love, even as lost is an outcome, because I think you can you can be we can be community communicative.


But then when we feel disappointed and we start to feel better, we get resentments, we stop communicating. So for me, ultimately, it's a an outcome. Quite a stop to share. Hi, Janice. Well, everyone we were when we were in break, there was breakout groups and we're picking the five qualities of if you had to stick with someone for life and there was bribery going on and all kinds of shenanigans, OK?


OK, so we've got this now. OK, so we're getting some break coverage, and the question now to reflect on is actually will stop from one minute and reflect quietly, privately. You can turn the camera off if you want, is looking over your past relationships. Which of those qualities have all the qualities we talked about before you go into the break room and before you think you think about it, reflect privately, I'm going to share. Let me get up my model and I'll show you the ones that I.


Consider an important animal. Look at all of them. Looking at all of can think about which ones. One present in past relationships and would have made the difference.


You didn't copy and paste all wanted, you just quickly turn around and tell everyone slaloms Alan had to go out, OK?


Right. So this is my model. So my family, the foundation is critical for his integrity because integrity, which actually arose, groups came up with trustworthiness, which I think is quite similar. So integrity leads to trust. When you have trust, you're more likely to be to have fun. The opposite of integrity is deceit. When you have deceit, you have doubt when you have anxiety. The second one is respect. When you have respect, then you engender loyalty.


When you have loyalty, you then are more appreciative. So actually, one of the one of the big things they found in relationship research of the qualities of enduring happy couples is. Delusional, delusional bias that people who are not a long lasting, happy, loving relationship are actually a little bit delusional about their partner. They give them better qualities than they actually have. So the opposite of respect is contempt. When you get contempt, you get stonewalling, which is why people just shut down and say nothing, which then leads to hostility.


The third one is kindness. Kindness leads to compassion and empathy, which then gives you the communication. The opposite of kindness is criticism, which leads to defensiveness, which leads to poor communication. So I'm going to give you a minute, a minute of silence to reflect in your past relationships, which had all the qualities we've talked about. Do you wish for president or which qualities were present, which were a deal breaker, which broke the relationship unsatisfactory?


Okay, so I'm going to turn one minute and then we're going to go into breakout rooms and you can discuss it.


But question on this matrix, if I may. Well, you could use them and us across the top to choose what I'm saying.


Is it meant to be like the matrix? The the. Because I thought it was piddles.


Yeah, OK. So that is if you if you're focused on yourself, that's integrity, so integrity is focused on you, respect is focused on when you're thinking of them, and kindness is when you're thinking of us. So.


So being in integrity.


Yes. So when your focus is on yourself and that leads to integrity, when your focus is that focus, that energy is focused on someone else, that's about respect of them.


But because of respecting their integrity and the importance of integrity, you kind of yeah, it's quite it's quite separate is like the energy of focus on yourself is integrity, making sure that your how the energy of respect is outward of the other person. And in kindness is the dynamic between you. OK, I see. OK, so if they have kindness between us, then they have compassion and empathy between us and then we get authentic communication between, yes, going upwards.


It's foundational how you show up the response if your partner is is the right kind of partner. And that's the response that they should have. And then that is the outcome. You're both enjoying the relationship and then going this way. Its focus is to focus on yourself. You be integrity. The focus on how you treat the partner is respect and a focus on how you conduct yourself is kindness to fully understand that.


OK, so you've got the foundation. You start with integrity. Yeah. Which leads to a response, which is the respect that we say. Yeah, no, no response of integrity, but trust. There is some leeway. So that is the trust.


It's hard for us to follow the loved ones and try to say the climate is if you trust in each other. There's less anxiety, CEO, and more able to enjoy relaxation. Yeah, it could be fun. I did have other words for as well, but it's like that you are more relaxed in the relationship. Yeah. I mean, it could be more supportive because you can trust each other and it's just fun to be in playful.


But that's not really what I mean is like you can be fun with someone when you trust them and you know, you you trust each other, you don't have to worry about each other or is in a relationship when there's resentment and things and it's OK and the buddy system that so lets you go the integrity of concentrating on them.


And it's respect because you're putting your energy towards them.


Yeah. So when you focus so like when you're thinking about yourself, the focus is integrity. When you're focusing on how you treat someone is respect. And then when you focus on how you work together, it's kindness, it's quite similar respect and kindness is quite similar in in the way that like the focus between you or to the other person.


All right. All right. I'll turn it off. Thanks for that. No worries.


So does anyone have any comments? Any. For some, what they would like if you could go back in time of what you would do differently in relationships. Nothing, because we will we will not have this knowledge by now, we have to go through about that suffering in order to. To understand how we can do better or improving in the future. True. OK, so thinking forward, what lessons will you take personally when you look at personally how you showed up in relationships, then?


What what could what have you learned from your journey? No, sorry.


I would say to be present and see the person for what they really are rather than what you would like.


And yeah, OK, that's a valuable one. So, Janice, you were going to say so. Basically, in my perspective, the willingness, the willingness to learn, willingness, I want to improve. It's just probably the best of our willingness to stick around, so we've got willingness and.


It was some sort of presence wasn't quite constant, so we had a good discussion in one of the groups of being rough and treating kindness.


Cotton candy was the word. Say so, the essential quality that we have to look for in partners is cotton candy. And Estella is apparently available for £100 pounds per minute.


Well, actually, I need the cotton candy because I'm the tough one, I need to practice not to be so scathing in my commentary at times because I can cut you off at the knees, I've been told more than five minutes nothing about.


But I need I when I'm hurt, I will tear you to pieces just with words and it hurts. I know I'm confessing and confessing, so I need to get some cotton candy to give you some context.


We were talking about Problem-Solving. You know how many men are from Mars, women are from Venus. And whatever you whether it's men or women or whatever, is masculine and feminine or or a particular logical emotional. There were a number of us who were problem solvers and I talked about you can have kindness both wrapped in truth or you can have truth, but wrapped in kindness or cotton candy. So would you would you say that your when you were shaving, Sandra, are you shaving in solving problems or is it like in an already conflict situation, conflict situation, conflict situations, conflict situation?


Because if there's a problem to be solved, logical and I will work through it.


Yeah, yeah, that that that's that's not my problem. I will look for solutions, I will look for ways of dealing with an issue. If I if you are not cooperating and you don't want to go along with me, then we have a problem.


If there is no other way to solve the issue, that's when we have a problem. And that's when I get.


Yeah, OK. So if the other person comes to you emotionally. You know, like minded about a day old, the fairies, and you would approach it with logic. No, no, no, no, no, no.


If there is OK, if if you come to me and you've had a bad day and it's, you know, and you just want to have a moan and stuff, I am fine. I will listen to you and I will empathize with with your situation. But if you come to me to help with solving an issue, then I go into logic mode and then I can be a very hard nosed if you start to quibble about little things and you don't want to do what is the logical thing?


And then I can get to the point is, why are you bothering me if you don't want to hear what the solution is?


And then I get cross and it's because you're wasting my time and OK.


Yes, OK. Yeah. And probably some people say, oh yes, that's a very masculine kind of trait, but that's me.


OK. Right, so. Any other qualities? Or anything that was there, the. Shouldn't have been. What do you mean? Well, maybe there was something in the relationship that. You're talking about, you know, not now I'm talking and this is open to everyone. I'm still carrying on from the reflections. Send me some respect. So that's the lack of respect. So I'm trying to think of maybe all the other things that aren't a lack of some of quality.


Because I think that when you start establishing the group, when respect starts blocking it normally is due to something else that is started to miss out in the relationship. And then you stop respecting that person as much as you did before. Yeah. Does that make sense?


It does, yeah. Lacking the cotton candy. Yes. Or integrity or whatever else.


Or didn't you have to split is one of the foundations. Yes. So sometimes people will demand respect. So you must respect me and respect means you must act in a certain way. But it's not that. It's the respect of really it comes down to the respect of. Listening. So really, when we talked about that example, the cotton candy that really comes from a lack of respect in listening, so those of us that are more jump in is really not having fully full respect for the person because what it feels like to that person, because we think we're solving their problems, but what it feels like to them is not good enough to solve your own problem.


I need to tell you how to do it. So respect is a nuanced thing and can be context specific as well.


Yeah, with an attitude.


So it's having respect for is respecting the person's ability to cope like the person's ability to solve their own problems, having the person's respect, having respect for the person in terms of their not broken. They don't need fixing. They're good enough. It's respecting their different from me, respecting those differences.


A part of that respect has to do with how you actually listen and interact with a person, because many times we can accuse not just our partners, but people who look on the surface as though they are listening to you and that they understand what you're saying or doing, but they really aren't.


And so some of the things that are implicit in what you are saying escapes them because so the fullness of what it is that you're trying to communicate does not go across.


It is not received yet.


There's a part of it, like Fernando says, his acceptance of the person and it's also presents is also that presence is part of the respect to accept in their separate self and identity as well.


And you're not trying to put your things on it to fix it because you're saying, oh, you're you should be like this. So I'm going to fix it because you're supposed to be like this. And rather than stepping back and thinking, oh, you're separate, you just support it and you'll figure it out and go through the steps and. Yeah, yeah.


And sometimes a propensity to fix things is a way of getting yourself off the hook because it stops you. You don't have to listen anymore.


Yeah. You focus on fixing something. And so the rest of which may be the most important part of the whole discussion or what's being said is you don't have to deal with that. And maybe that's the part that is really costly for you in that it is take it takes a lot out of you. You maybe emotionally you have to give what you're not prepared to give. So an escape route for you is to deal with the fixing in some fixing a part of the problem.


And also it is so to people in your relationship, they both got their own ideas. They've got their own things, their own vision of how things will work. And so a lack of respect is also my way is better. My vision is better. So there's an element of control in so respect is accepting complete differences and being working to merging them. And respect is also it's not just respect the other person, but it's respect for yourself equally. So I would say of the three, the one where I'm probably weakest on, the one that I would need to work on most is the respect.


Because of that Problem-Solving thing. So now to take a minute and think how you've shown up in relationships. So if we take just the three of integrity, respect, kindness. So I would say the one need to focus, the one on which is Tony's respect. What would you say for yours personally?


You don't have to share, but just consider it was the third one focus, integrity and respect and kindness of kindness.


If you are saying respect and acceptance for the other person's differences of trying, it's hard to hear you.


OK, can you hear me now? Is that OK? She certainly feels so. If you are saying the respect is around respecting other persons differences, the differences between yourselves and for me will respect this will probably be so.


Did you say respect, integrity and kindness? Yes. Well, thank you.


Did you talk in break rooms or did you say it?


Could you could you give us a rundown of what each of those briefly could look like? OK, so integrity. So so let me share the screen again, these are the quality, integrity, respect, kindness. So the focus is. Where is your energy and your attention focused if it's focused on yourself, it results in integrity. So integrity means that you say what you mean and means that you do what you say you're going to say. So everything that you say and do are aligned.


So therefore, you have integrity. So therefore, because if you have a lack of integrity. What do you say you are and what you do or two different things? That gap creates mistrust. So when you have integrity, it means people know who you are. They know what you stand for. They know what you believe in. And they know likely the kind of person that you are. So that's what the trustees are. And then the last one, it could be fun or it could be I had other things up there as well, but it's it's the fact that someone knows who you are.


The core of this is, you know, who you are and self-awareness and self-expression and the other person sees you in the same way as your expression. Does that make sense? Yes, thank you. Okay, respect, respect is where your focus is on the other person. So when you focus on the other person, the alternative to respect is contempt. And so when you're trying to change someone, when you say what you do isn't good enough, your vision isn't right.


That's contempt. So respect is I'm curious I'm curious about you as an individual, I want to know how you made up. I want to. Look, I want to know how you made up, not from a judgmental point, but from an appreciative point, you're a human being. You made up of experiences, you made up of your temperament, which is different to mine. You have a different vision. I'm interested in your vision. I'm interested in what you're interested in.


I'm interested in what makes you the you are all of those things. And so when you act like that. Someone feels understood, they feel hurt, they feel supported, they feel valued for who they are. So that creates loyalty, which creates an appreciation because when you feel good, the difference between appreciation and hostility is when you feel good about someone. So one of the problems in dating is we either idealize people. So someone we don't really know because we attracted them, we have feelings for them.


We think they're everything that's good and we think there is this perfect person.


But in a relationship. Actually, they found one of the things that it was a core ingredient of happy, lasting relationships was delusional, being delusional about your partner in a positive way, ie positive delusions. So an appreciation does that if you feel good about someone. You tend to see the good in them as good and bad in everyone, if you feel bad about someone, you see the more negative aspects. Does that make sense? Hey, thank you, sir.


Kindness is your orientation to what's between you both, so respect is focused on them, but it's also on yourself. If that makes sense, kindness is to both of you as well, so kindness is focusing on the style of interaction. Is this kind or is this? So the opposite of kindness is criticism. So kindness is where there's the benefit of the doubt, can you give it to the person? What can you do to be generous even in those moments when they don't deserve generosity?


And so when you do that, there is. It creates a climate where people are more compassionate and empathic. And then when you have that, there is more open and honest. Communication, whereas if you criticize, critical people are defensive, which then closes down communication. Does that make sense? Did you say it's focusing on the style of communication, as in not just saying what you say, which might be a half true, for example, but saying something and considering their feelings?


And that's what this is.


Yes. Yes, it's. It's really looking at the person. Which these are quite closely linked. So respect is looking at the person, understanding the makeup of the person. Kindness is then shaping what you have to say. In the way that's claims to the. It is it's all born of empathy. Yeah, so kindness, so these are kindness is the attitude behind respect and also the way that you. Communicate. OK, thank you. Oh, that's my weakness, kindness.


Yeah, what do you mean? What do you mean? It's your weakness. So it means that with with regards to respect, if I feel.


That I have lost respect, that it is reflected in how I interact. And that. My consideration of how to address you, how to react to is not necessarily.


To be what would I call it now to be kind to you? Or to consider your feelings, I mean, hurt me, hurt your feelings by not being considerate.


Yeah, it changes it changes the level of consideration that I have for your well-being, for your emotional well-being. So respect is kind of how you think of the person and kindness is what you give to the person you give to the person, right? So it affects how I deliver. Whatever it is that I'm the different beat beat in words or beat in action. If you've lost respect, you find it hard to be kind that what you're saying, yeah, in essence.


Is that not a bit of self-preservation? It is. OK, I need to learn that bit, but also it's also a signal of my my state of mind that let's see if it's a signal to I am displeased with you or I feel disrespected or whatever.


Yeah, so then the country like China says this is you can be too kind. So and so that's I'm not saying that's the truth, but that's the that's the issue.


If if there's a lack of respect and you're still being coin's, then what happens is you if you have if you're trying to still outwardly be kind, then you sort of shut down within me like, no, not rejection. Well, legally, I can't think of a word just shut down any other way so you could look at stonewalling is basically shutting down. Not that it's not it's not ignoring anyone because it's still perhaps on the outside, be communicating in a way, but just not that it's just more functional rather than actual any feelings behind it.


So that all shuts down because. You, your beat, you've been kind and it's kind of gone so far that then it's run out, so it just, yeah, just shuts down and get comfortable with where it is. Now, that overcompensating, though. And in other words, it's not over. It's not it's not too much kindness, it's you have gone into compensatory mode where you're trying to. Do something which is not, as you can still see it from their side, so then you think, oh, right.


So you still think, well, I don't want to do that. That's really horrible. If I was in their shoes and you still try to see it from their point of view, but then that's quite damaging to yourself. So in a way, you're what your face is a bit better because you're not going down that line. You kind of going, that's enough.


And you don't see the point. You go past that point. It's like a. It's really annoying me, I had to wait for hour, just escaping me, so it's a bit deceptive because it is not it's not the truth that you are out of the situation. So there is a bit of deception in that in that you are creating. Um, and we all do it, I think, to to keep things on even keel and to not ruffle feathers.


We overcompensate with what appears to be genuine kindness. I would call it this. It's like we don't know our boundaries until we not our lives. I had this problem a lot of times I could not set my boundaries. That's the line. I'm not agree with that. I still like you, but I'm not angry.


So you will not cross this line? Yes, otherwise the person doesn't know it's like you're teaching the populace well to the same for the people as well. Yeah. So I think sometimes what happens is that there is a boundary and then it kind of gets worse. So then that boundary think, OK, maybe if I put this boundary here then it will be OK. But then that boundary get spikes that you think, OK, maybe if I bring this boundary here and that gets so it's kind of then gets to a point, it's like.


So accommodating them, I can't I don't know what the word is that it's been over accommodating. Yeah, been accommodating to the point where it's ridiculous and it's just enough is enough. Yeah.


So is that so all of these are double sided as you respect yourself, respect for yourself. So is it a respect issue? Like yourself, that, yes, it is, it is because you don't know yourself what you don't know until it's not coming to your back. If I try to look at this from an objective point of view, then yes, I can see why you'd say why you would think that. But when you're in it, if you were in this situation, I would say the only way, if someone constantly changes your reality, then you put so much doubt in your mind that then you think, oh, maybe I am wrong.


So then you change that boundary because maybe I maybe I have got it wrong. Maybe that is not right. Maybe it is this way. And then that doubt makes you set that boundary because you're thinking, well, maybe if they're right and I'm wrong, then you give them more leeway and self-confidence as well. So there is self doubt filled with. Self-doubt is part and parcel of that as well in terms of pushing the boundaries because you're doubting yourself.


So you you keep changing.


Well, I think if if you I think what makes it different as well is if you have got children or you haven't got children is when there's children involved, then you are more likely to do those things because it's not just you. It's going to affect other people. So then I think you. Try to perhaps accommodate things that bit further than you would so like, maybe so. So, for example, if you had no children and then it hit a boundary, you're more likely to go.


That's that's just ridiculous stuff enough and walk away. But once you have children, you're you're more likely to re-evaluate those boundaries and think, OK, can I work this out? OK, maybe if I give on this and work this out, OK, maybe if I work on this and give this back a little bit to say, do you see what I mean? So you're trying to be kind because you're considering everybody but maybe your own immediate feelings because you're looking at it as a a complete picture rather than just this one person.


That's why I would say nothing. Your wife is a bit of a cipher, needs to be. I need a bit of that. I agree with this girl into some of it was that resonates with me as well in my own situation.


Think it's kind of nice when things don't work out.


You of you can't you think, well, break up a family? I mean, just because things aren't working out, you know, we got married and got kids and, you know, they're all young. So you think, well, we'll make it work. It'll be all right. And, you know, you're just as just a little bit more tolerant or accepting that normally you will turn around, say, hang on a minute, I come up with this.


If if this is the way you want to be, then I feel disrespected or unkind or whatever you want to call it. And you kind of turn around and say enough is enough to change it or be angry that this is a flight risk. But you're right. And you got little ones that you kind of pro bono maybe, you know, we just have to put up with it for you.


Okay, just a quick question. Who feels that they've stayed in a relationship longer because children are a big one, but there's also cultural expectations. There's also people are avoiding like don't want to be single because then they have to go out and they can't find anyone else is. He feels that they stayed in a relationship too long for some other reason. Well, that was sunk cost fallacy, because you stay the more you feel. Well, I'm rubbing myself just because I've already stayed.


Yeah, I definitely think that's one of the bias. You know, when we look at biases that people have sort of sunk costs in terms of you put in so much lose this so many people end up with like with the wrong person because they go, oh, yeah, I've been in this relationship two years. I'm I'm not losing that now. And which is like the key rule of investment, isn't that is that you start from zero zero base.


Not me, like I did you say, I don't think I wouldn't have even crossed my mind. That's just really alien idea. What do you mean by that?


I just don't grasp the idea of thinking of it as a investment. I just didn't even think of it in that way. When you invest in your investing time, energy, so I can see it, I just it never crossed my mind to think of it in that way.


Well, a lot of people will be in a relationship and they're like, oh, well, they're really good. You know, they're great ideas, the greatest. But this problem and which I will be happy in the relationship. No, not really. But but I've given so much to the relationship. I'm not going to leave it now. What if I leave and someone else comes along and they're the perfect person for. That's why. People stay in this room sometimes locking up persons.


This person is this trade is reason to stay there.


Yeah, I'm surprised that's cutting off your nose to realize this, but it's kind of people get in this pattern.


If they think they have value in it, then, because that's like valuing it differently. If they're thinking like that, they're kind of thinking, is it worth it? To me, that kind of sounds like you're thinking about what you can get out there. What's its value to you? I mean that on some level, but yeah, it sounds more calculated.


It is. People are like, wow, I'm not really I'm not really. I've put so much into this relationship. Um, yeah. And people have said to me, well, what if I leave and then and then like, someone else gets the perfect partner.


But because you've trained him up, I'm told not to be a good husband. And then they've got the benefit.


And I can say I didn't think that way.


I have to say I can't recognise that I told my background, I mean this and I was there for her. And I think in a way, she grew and became stronger as a result because there were certain issues that made or incorrectly think, well, let's just say and through the use and this is to be made perhaps me being disrespectful because I kind of worked on that created the environment in which it became a lot more. Well, she's she's a lot more capable, a lot more independent from something as a result of of that, but not one.


So I actually thought, oh, she wants to know and she's the one that wants to work and somebody else is not going to inherit this stronger woman that I created I actually thought has never crossed my mind.


I'd have to say to her, so sorry.


No. Well, I was going to say it was just very quickly that she found her voice and perhaps she decided to say, look, you know, you're not the one for me, let's just break it up. And it was sort of confidence that she had the confidence to say, well, three years down the toilet to some degree, you know, do so.


And are you going to do this? I was going to say that the concept of is a relationship as an investment effort, time, investment, money, investment. I have heard it. Not that I share it, but I've heard it. And so if you get offended, but mostly from female side. Especially not as much as the end of the relationship, like I have invested so much time and effort and love in this relationship as from the beginning of the relationship, should I invest so much time in this relationship if it's going to take me here or if it's going to take me there?


So the concept of relationship as an investment of time and effort, I have heard of it. Should I invest that time in this relationship if it's not going to go anywhere? Truly invested in the relationship? Yes, because it's going to take me there. So, yes, I've heard of it. They I guess I can understand that if the woman is young and she wants to have children and she's thinking of it is investing time because she's thinking to time, as in time to raise a family.


And that sense that I was through the same.


It's like having a pair of shoes in the closet and you never take it out to wear it. What's the point? I think clearly you have it, I think is also behind a lot of the attitude, like on dating sites where people are nightime like this, don't waste my time. And that is in a sense because I I think I don't think the view is.


I don't think the view is wrong, I think there is like I think, you know, love is a currency like money. It's not something we buy and sell, but we do things for love. We do things for money. So. And I think there is an investment, as in there is some result, that's the reason, like we're all here to learn and improve our perspective on relationships so that we have better relationships. So that's we're recognizing that investing time and energy can lead to what we really want.


So I don't think it's the problem of the investment, but when you have. When it dominates at the expense of integrity, respect, kindness. Then it becomes sort of soulless and then it's about warm, I guess it becomes. So I thought that was what I kind of thought. When you set it in that way, it was like, oh, that sounds really not not the complete opposite way of talking. That's why I was like, oh, yeah, yeah.


But but I can see when you look at it and you break it down logically and you go, yeah, you are, you are investing time. You are investing effort. You are if you start to build something together, you are investing money. So it is really it's just it's not my immediate way of thinking about it, but it is logical. Yes.


Hmm. I think it's very interesting. We were talking last week about value. That value where you spend your money shows what you value. And if you look at relationships when the average wedding is thirty two thousand pounds, the average engagement ring is seventeen hundred pounds. The average divorce costs, aside from living costs like 13 grand. How many people spend that much? Invest that much time? When you look at a wedding like mumps, you sometimes have people like where are they going to sit?


What do I say? Are we going to get what are we going to get? They spend nowhere near that amount of time on building for the relationship. They'll invest that much in one day. So so I think there is there is the concept of investment, whether we understand it or not, but when we take, like consciously, that becomes an issue because our focus is on what we're getting. Where is the whole basis of kindness and respect is what do we give?


So would you be willing to give her this respect if you're not getting something back? No need to decide. So in that case, would it not be reciprocal then love it and just given you give an end game.


Yeah. So I think kindness and respect are double edged. It's disrespect of that make up, disrespect of your make up, what do you need to be back to be like when we're talking about the scale? What do you need to be above the line? What do they need to be above the line? And in terms of kindness? What do I need to give them for them to to be raised up? What do I need to do to be raised up?


So but that kindness is reciprocal, isn't it, because realistically, people aren't going around giving to random people down the street to raise them up, given to can give them something back? Exactly. The relationship is symbiotic, isn't it?


Yes, because otherwise and it's not sustainable. If you're the one that's always given kindness, you're always understanding and they don't reciprocate, then ultimately the relationship is going to collapse. So if we carry on with the analogy of an investment. If you keep investing and so you keep giving. So you keep investing in understanding someone. And you keep giving it if you look like if we look at businesses like economic times. But if you understand, like emotional bank account that you need in order for you to survive, like nutritionally, we need oxygen, we need water, we need nutrition, but we also need, like, spiritual nutrition, which is what we're getting from the relationship.


So if you're giving. Constantly and it's not simply symbiotic and you can get anything, eventually you're going to be depleted and when you're depleted, you're going to be below the line, they're not going to get what they want. It's really when you look at narcissistic relationships. They don't work long term because someone is looking to get they're looking for a source to to supply their own lack. And. Ultimately, they're going to drain the purse and dry.


Well, then that's what I was saying then you don't feel anything, so you shut down. Yeah, because you what have you. Yeah, it's you. You've become depleted.


And so the relationship needs both because otherwise he's going to die. So you mean more like a flow, like a cash flow, transaction flow, emotional flow? Hmm.


I think going in and someone's taken out, it's going to be taken out. So it's always. Yeah. In debt anyway.


Yes. So below the line relationship is one with a debt that drags it down, whereas when there's a flow. So, so when you look at a successful business, so the flow there is economic like monetary. The currency is money. So look at Apple. We all buy you. I'm guessing most people don't have some Apple product or but we buy Apple products because they're easy to use, because they do things that other things don't, because we like them.


We say people without them, even advertising people are cute down the street to to spend way over the odds of of an Android phone that does more or less the same. And so then they then create new things and what they've captured is they're able to be ahead of everyone and come up with what we want without us being able to say, you know, like if you've gone back to before the iPod, people would have said, what do we want?


We want a Walkman that has longer life. But they came up with the idea, like the iPod, a thousand songs in your pocket. So that creates the money, monetary like, so they're the richest company because. We're happy to spend with them because of what we get back. Same Amazon, the same age, because it's so easy to buy from them in a relationship. If you if someone is giving you that kind of exchange, obviously it's different, it's you give respect and you get that kindness, you give respect and or you give kindness and you get respect and empathy and all of those things.


That's the flow that keeps the relationship above the line. Does that make sense, does everyone get because often you relate related to like investment or finance, people say it's not it's nothing to do with that. But it's not about the money.


No, it's the thing is the imbalance. Yeah.


So the money. So the money is like the level of the content that we see. But the concept is reciprocal reciprocity. So the economy works and there's a reciprocity and a relationship works and reciprocity. So they're the same, but, hey, you've got money, you've got love. So in that sense, the currencies are what goes above. I describe it as transactional, I don't I can't stand to put that analogy to a relationship, relationships, transactional, but I think he's transactional when it's so we have so when you buy something from someone and it's transactional.


It's I want this, I give you this. A relationship is more it's not necessarily transactional, like your business relationships are more longstanding that you have a supplier that you work with because you trust them and because that you know that they will do good work and they give and take and there's some leeway.


It's it's a little bit it's transactional, essentially, but transactional sounds like it's a one off year where there is some of the work, the notion of like that, without actually expecting one to one, you do something because you want to do it.


And because of that it has on the person who is receiving. But you have a notion, you have an understanding that there is to coin, to use the word reciprocity from the other person to you. It's just that it is not a one. It's just not an equal and opposite reaction. One on one.


It's not sex. You don't expect it. You don't want to be there. And then it could be the future. It doesn't have to be there. But a relationship is an ongoing reciprocation. So in that sense, it's an ongoing transactional relationship because if you give and give and you don't get back, you're not going to be fulfilled. So you're not going to give any more in your relationships or transactional.


I think there's transactions within the relationship, but it's a longstanding it's a trust because that transaction know. And so in terms of kindness, kindness is about giving, but you give in to the relationship. So respect is about respecting of the person. The focus is on the person who is this person, how do I understand them? How do I understand and appreciate the kindness you give, but you give to the relationship? Because what it's doing is you're not giving to the person and they take away, but you give in to the relationship.


And so what it does is it raises them up so they're able to give more. So they give they also give the relationship. So what you have is only for want of a better word, investment for all the what you're giving stays within the relationship. So the relationship gets richer and richer and richer. And so you rise up. So you have more resources because you've given.


So the relationship is similar to saying you're doing it for your benefit as well as this.


Yeah, all of these. Yeah, it is. So if you're the kindnesses that you're giving, but your giving is in essence the the the to the relationship so that the relationship gets better and so that you then reap the benefit of that.


So it's more like the fourth of the plant. Yeah. Yeah.


And also like plants are symbiotic. So like water in this plant, it makes this show better for this pump.


Sorry Wolf, I heard it's being called emotional, but I don't think we're mixing a couple of concepts in here.


How do you feel of.


So can you say again, Fernando, yet? Have you heard the will of consent that's thinking the will of consent? No, that might be really good for one of your seminars. Have a look to the will of consent. OK, pretty much. You have a circle divided in four. One is giving. So that is taking so well, giving and receiving. So if I give you something, you know, the person receives something. Taking and allowing, so I'm not really giving a yes, allowing somebody taking it from me.


And something that is in the central center, Robin. You won't see me once with a sentencing hearing. So if I have to apples and I give you one, I have lost one. I have the feeling of lost. Yes. And therefore I have one. You have one.


If I have to approach you, take away one from me. Really savvy. Yeah, the one that are many ways of doing it. The key that we don't see in this one is the sharing which should be in the middle. And if I have two apples and a share to uphold with you, I have two apples. You have to apples in total, therefore, apples. Does it make sense? They are known for apples, but they have to and you have to because I'm sharing my two apples with you getting pieces and we're sharing that and the currency is a great benefit.


So they two apples have become for years multiply. It has grown and it has grown for both of us. And I feel that we still have purpose. And you feel that you have to look to apples. I think that's what you're saying. I'm not giving it to you, I'm giving it to the relationship is in the middle. I put it in the middle of the table. The two our both is for us. But that's why I'm saying we're missing a bit of giving, receiving, taking, allowing the sometimes very confusing.


OK. Thank you for that. We have to ask to look into that after I have not come across that before. I think I'm sort of seeing it as like two people to both, and if it's only one of you hotlink, then you're just going to go round and round in a circle. But if you're both paddling, then you're going to move forward together because you both fit into it.


Yeah, I think that's the way you keep going rounds.




You just want to be put in an all the and it's like, wait a minute, I get I'm. And then eventually one person gets worn out and so I this move at all.


Oh, you OK?


Well, I think we've quite covered covid, so yeah.


So the idea of the artist is no relationship then is above the line is relationship heaven. Below the line is relationship hell. And so I think universally you need integrity, you need respect and kindness for all relationships. And then individually the occasional relationship is what do you need? In order to be happy and then what does someone need to supply in a relationship for you to be happy with it? So your man but you must be able to to to receive.


He must be in a place where you can receive what has been given to you. Yeah, so true. Yeah, so yeah. So the idea is to say yes. So there is that. So the idea is no relationship. Is that you. Know what you need. You show up with what you have to show up in order to bring the best out of the other person and also know what you need from. So this individual individual aspects that only you are going to want in your relationship, you know, that's personal to your make up.


But the universals are. Kindness, integrity and respect. But I suppose there is a we could all have another discussion as to what kind this means, because kindness means different things to different people and what might be for the giver, a great act of kindness may not resonate with the receiver at all.


The five kindness language is there's a book in there. Sandra Oh, OK.


OK, you got the five love languages. I think you should write the five kindness. Oh yes. I actually had I had three more I was going to break out into breakout rooms of with one like you IRA and Sarah did one each. I was going to do one with integrity, one respect and one with kindness. But we ran out of time. But yeah, I think it would be good to do one of definition, I think coming to a more clarified.


Definitions, words are so difficult that when we looked at those lists, I looked at a lot of them and I thought, like trustworthiness, I would say is very similar to integrity. I think it's integrity that creates trust and playfulness. I would put as similar types, but it is interesting, the one that I think everyone or most people had was being supportive. So look at the beginning near to what you what we know is that what people did put what they needed to know, there was free groups and the breakout group was looking at five.


If they had to stick with someone for four for life, what five qualities they could pick five qualities and then let's commit to them and stay with them for life.


Right. OK.


OK, but so we have we have lots more to define in another conversation and we have to look at that. I'll look into that. We look concerned. Thank you for that, Fernando. Right. Well, thank you everyone and have a good week. And next week, I think we've got the Hill die on the hill. You'll dial down. No, not, not.


We're going to continue with Mike Candyfloss next week and see if I can get some candyfloss open.


Mike. This is Mike.


This is my practice for 20, 21 plus that candyfloss, not 18 yet, but. Wrapping it wrapping. Me, too. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. That's the cotton candy quest.


Oh, I think I'm too nervous to be here. I know.


The question is, do I really want to change? I was going to say that.


Is it that you're too old to change?


You don't want to change. So, yeah. So we're going to have a future Vestel thing candyfloss that we can all come together and afford her.


Right. Have a good week. Thank you, everyone. Thanks you. Next time.