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Hansa Iyengar and Alex West with Omdia
9th September 2021 • The Industrial Talk Podcast with Scott MacKenzie • The Industrial Talk Podcast with Scott MacKenzie
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In this week's Industrial Talk Podcast we're talking to Hansa Iyengar and Alex West with Omdia about "The convergence of OT and IT".  Get the answers to your "OT/IT" questions along with Hansa and Alex's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview! Finally, get your exclusive free access to the Industrial Academy and a series on “Why You Need To Podcast” for Greater Success in 2021. All links designed for keeping you current in this rapidly changing Industrial Market. Learn! Grow! Enjoy!

HANSA IYENGAR AND ALEX WEST'S CONTACT INFORMATION:

Hansa's Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansa-iyengar-0140a67/ Alex's Personal LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexdwest/ Omdia's Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/omdia/ Omdia's Company Website: https://omdia.tech.informa.com/

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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS industrial, alex, technology, people, digital transformation journey, data, ot, business, companies, enterprise, customer, supply chain, digital transformation, pandemic, solutions, Hansa, industry, tx, machines, legacy 00:00 Hey industrial Talk is brought to you by CAP Logistics. You want to minimize downtime, absolutely increase reliability, you bet ensure operational profitability. Yes you do. That means you need 20 473 65 insights into your supply chain Look no further cap logistics go to cap logistics.com or just call them they're great people 800-227-2471 also TX one now you know cybersecurity is important if you're on this digital transformation journey, TX one networks has the solutions for you. And you're saying to yourself, Scott, they're going to be complex, they're going to be difficult. No TX one's taking that into consideration. And they provide a suite of solutions that truly meet your cybersecurity needs. Go out to TX, one dash networks.com and find out more, you're not going to be disappointed. Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott MacKenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hardhat grab your work boots, and let's go Alright, welcome to industrial talk. This is where we celebrate you industrial heroes, you are bold, you are brave. You dare greatly. you innovate. You're changing the world. And you're changing lives as we speak. Right today. Thank you very much for joining in the hot seat. We have to Odia is the company, Alex West, and Hansa. In Gar, we're gonna be talking a little bit about ot IT Convergence. And how do we make that happen in this digital transformation journey? So let's get cracking. Yeah, everybody's talking about that. ot IT Convergence important, especially when you're in this digital transformation journey world that we live in. From an industrial perspective. It's it always gets down to people, it's always gets down to organizations talking common focus, common interest in what is needed for the organization. And right now, if you're looking at going down this digital transformation journey, you're gonna have to have that conversation. Before we get into that. Just another FYI, Hurricane Ida slapped us upside the head down here in Louisiana. And for the most part, we're fine here at international headquarters for industrial talk medium. But there are a lot of people in need of help. And I encourage you, if you have it in your heart, if you desire to, to help out in any way, shape, or form, just go to redcross.org redcross.org has everything you need, you can get you can get engaged, you can provide help where help is needed. We on the other side of New Orleans, where I live, which is Mandeville, we had some trees, had some fence fall down, but pretty much what is always interesting to me is the human spirit, the human condition where the next day we were out and about cutting trees, and getting life back to normal as fast as possible. But this does not. I mean, we were out of power for a week. And we're still down from a Wi Fi perspective. But I mean, we survived. And that is important. But a lot of people south of us are still struggling, really got hammered got flooded, and just keep them in your thoughts that that they need help. And it will continue for some period of time and a lot of people, there's still people that are out of power. I can't believe it. I gotta tell you, South Louisiana in August with no air conditioning. Yeah, that's, that's tough detail. So keep that in mind. All right. Another thing I want to be able to point out, and we're going to be starting this to we're starting the utility Roundtable. And that's important because we want to be able to highlight how the energy industry is venturing into, of course, digital transformation. And that is great conversation to have you got microjet you got, you know, it's just there's a lot of things happening, and a lot of big time thinkers solving the problem. So keep on the lookout at industrial talk.com for these particular series. The other series we're going to be talking is is what I call Mt. Ms. That is 04:50 media, technology, marketing and sales. Why is that important? And why am I all geeky and happy? About that, well m TMS because I get tired of saying the words, no matter what your tech is, no matter what your solution is what no matter what you're offering, there is a necessity to to figure out how to use media effectively for you, you've got to do it. And then you've got to leverage technology. From that perspective, if I'm using media, I've got to leverage technology. And there's some incredible technology out there to help make your media life easier. Marketing, what are the strategies associated with marketing that you can deploy today? And, and going forward? What are those strategies, and then of course, sales. Yet, if you're not, if you're not closing deals, it's a struggle out there. And we're going to be pulling together a great organ of a group of people that are going to really talk about Mt. m s, and and be able to just offer it to you. It does sort of talk me is all about that. It's great to have conversations that are around the stuff that's happening within industry, the the industrial for Dotto, the edge, the IoT, the IoT, we need to be able to communicate our message in a way that makes sense, it's got to be, to a certain extent provocative, it's got to be human, it's got to be human. Don't shy away from that. It's got to have a strategy around it. And of course, it's got to be entertaining. If it's not entertaining, and you have the cure for cancer, everybody dies of cancer, that, put that on, I don't know if you can put that on a bumper sticker, but that's the reality of it, just FYI. So you're gonna have to get out of that comfort zone. Anyway, industrial talk medium, all about that. And, and being able to just continue to look at what's available to help industry succeed. We need you, you need to be successful. You need to be able to transform the world. That means you need to be able to communicate your message out there in a big and wonderful way. All right, let's get on with the interview. Omdia o M. D, I want to make sure I got that right. Because I don't want to I don't want to mess that up. Oh, m d. I was right. I was going down that road. But I didn't want to leave that but Omedia and Alex, Wes and Hansa Iyengar, incredible conversation. And not and for me. Personally, I love the fact that organizations like Gandhi and others are looking ways of being able to bring them together and bring people together and and because it is what has to happen. You have to come together. Okay. That's just me. I'm pushing myself out there. Tried to be vulnerable here. I don't do well with vulnerable but I am human, happy. Whatever it is. All right. One last mark. redcross.org please consider giving. All right, enjoy the interview. All right. Welcome to industrial talk. We have two incredible guests. I'm always excited about interviewing individuals from I'm going to get an idea. Did I get that right? I'm gonna wear I'm all worn out by the stress of me remembering and being able to pronounce that name correctly. All right. We have Hansa, did I get that? Right? Did? Did it. Okay. And Alex, did I get that name right? Just about? All right. For the listeners out there, we're going to have to start out with a little background on who you are starting with you. And so how, who are you talk to us. 08:37 I'm a principal analyst and on the US enterprise IT practice. I've been an analyst for almost 15 years now. And I've been covering the systems integration and IT services space for all this time. I cover a lot I do a lot of work around digital transformation itself and how that works in enterprises. And part of my role involves me advising enterprises, on our enterprise customers on best practices, strategies, and you know, guiding them through their transformation journey. 09:10 And if you're looking at on video, she started her career at the age of five. No, I did not. I'm older than I look so clearly, clearly. Like Alex and I have been rode hard and put away what I mean. Without a doubt. It's like, well, geez, gosh. And Alex, this is the second time you've been on industrial talk, but still give us a background. 09:33 Cool. Thanks for having us again. Scott's Yeah, I'm Alex West. are on the I'm an analyst on the over the industrial IoT team. So I have a background looking at all the automation, manufacturing technology, everything from all the exciting stuff like sensors, bearings, belts and chains. But last 510 years, last five years as IoT is, you know, got the buzz behind it. Now things are getting a lot more interesting. So we're really looking at That transformation of industry so I kind of splitting the 10:06 here's a quick little off the off the chart question, Do you find that the digital transformation journey This is to you Alex digital transformation journey was accelerated as a result of the pandemic. 10:18 I think it was hindered, but it set the acceleration post pandemic. So, you know, you had the IT budgets were cut. But those companies that had already invested in are already doing some of these remote operations and things great and we carry on, they're better other than around cans, the cans that were being kicked down the road. Now the company is already looking at. And so we've got amazing. 10:41 Alright, let's talk a little bit about convergence of OT and IoT. Now on so give us a little background, or define what OT and it, what's the difference? And then Alex, we're gonna go talk a little bit about what do you mean by convergence? Give us a little definition of Ott? 10:56 Well, from how I look about it, look at it as ot is the part of industrial, you know, enterprise scientists or companies that keeps it running the machines and manufacturing, you know, the supply chains, and all, while it is a technology that drives these processes, and these value chains within the business. So it was a time when, you know, for most industrial customers, when technology was primarily their supply chain software, maybe a big SAP system, that, you know, they used to raise invoices and stuff. But over the period of time, we've seen that, at least in the last seven or eight years, the use of data has accelerated significantly because there are multiple ways in which it brings value to the industrial customer brings optimize or optimizes efficiencies in the OT processes and the OT value chain. 11:51 So that's why convergence, and and bringing the two together is important, right, Alex? 11:57 Yeah, that's right, you know, you've got the operational technology side, and it have been traditionally completely siloed. You know, they don't, it doesn't want to talk to it. And it kind of gets frustrated with it, you know, it's different technologies, different persona in different, you know, stereotyping, but different types of people in these different departments. And so there's very much been a slight analysis hanselman mentioned, if you want to start doing all of this digital transformation, you know, there's a lot of companies, how do we improve productivity, quality, and all these things, if you're trying to have a new approach to this data as part of that, and now it's data from the factory floor all the way up to the enterprise level shop floor to top floor integration, you've got to bring these two teams together play nicely to really generate the best benefit for the business. 12:44 Yeah, that's some heavy lifting. Go ahead. Haha. 12:47 Yeah, and, and the data doesn't just end there. The data also has to include data from customers, and the customers customer. So if it's a if it's a manufacturer of let's say, baking machines, they need to know what that customer is baking, how frequently they're using it. So I've seen cases, where do you have these, you know, manufacturers of these machinery, put in IoT devices to get data from their machines that helps them provide different set of services, you know, predictive maintenance services. And I've seen a couple of cases where the manufacturer of the machinery went from being a manufacturer or producer to a provider of services where they don't sell machines anymore, they lease it out. And and they charge for that, you know, annual maintenance contracts, and in order to build on top of it. So it's a completely new business model that is transformative. In talking about moving your SAP to the cloud. That is fine, it enabled transformation. But that itself is not transformative. So there is a long way to go before in a large industrial customers can say that they have really transformed their business. 13:54 But Alex? 13:56 Well, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. 13:57 If you think of data condition, something like condition monitoring condition, it's been done for decades now. small increments in improvement and analytics, that's basically as fundamental that's not transformational. But when you start measuring the health of an asset that ties into how hard you run your operations, which ties into how well you can deliver products, your customer when you're going to deliver, changing potentially to selling them an outcome as opposed to selling a product. Now you and then that linking into your supply chain. Now you're really doing what we talked about transformation manufacturing 14:32 the scene, I think it's dead sexy, what you guys are talking about, and I believe you're grabbing that data, there's gold in that data, I've got to figure out where the gold is I got to do a little mining, I got to get rid of some of the stuff that doesn't make sense, but there is gold in that data. And it does create a more resilient business, right? I've got greater uptime, I've got you know better you know better asset management and it just keeps on going and going and going and I have visibility into my What my customers have. But it all starts with data and and that strategy of how do you get it? Is that correct there? 15:10 Yeah, it has to start with that convergence. And like you mentioned, Scott, where I and then Alex as well, where it and ot don't talk to each other well, there's essentially the CEO is the CEO who sits on both their heads and says, You know what you guys have to work together. But many times, it's a forced relationship now that that, you know, kind of forcibly shoving it down or distraught or shoving it down, it stopped, that has to actually stop, you know, you have to take a step back and say, you know, what, this is what we are working towards. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that many industrial and manufacturing companies do not have a very clearly defined vision. And this is something that I was discussing with one of my colleagues on my podcast at the end of the show. You have a podcast that you just sort of just it's a baby. Yeah, but it's growing. So yeah, but we talk about things that are strategic to digital leaders. So all things that impact leadership in the digital age in that podcast. So we were just talking about the fact that you need if you have a clearly defined vision, for example, upss that they want to be the enabler of global e commerce. You know, it's it's, it's one sentence, but it's short and sweet and pointed to become the enabler of Global eCommerce, not just not just the US, not just Europe, global. So what do I have to do to align myself to that vision? What are the investments I need to make? What what technologies do I need? What will help me drive my business to become the global leader in a driving ecommerce supply chains across the world? So I think having that vision is the number one priority to bring that convergence between it and ot. Yeah, but 16:57 here's the funny thing. Alex, I've heard that, you know, that's good. That's that, I get the picture. I see it, I, I am all into it. But how many times have companies come out and say, this is where we're going, and then they change their direction? They have to stick by that vision. In the case of ups, they've got to stick by it. They've got to put the capital behind it. They've got to do that. How do that that's where trust and and, and a desire to do it comes from Do you agree with that, Alex? 17:28 Yeah. And that's, that's got to come, as it said, that comes from the top down. So well having these initiatives, but it's also and this comes to that like to a tee. Yeah, it's having all the themes at the table. Because we sometimes hear about, hey, the CEO had said, we're going to do digital transformation, and it kind of gets thrown over the wall. And the operating it goes into the light. Okay, you've just told us go play with a lot of new technology, we need a bit more strategy, or it's having that focus, where it mot are at the same table and that Hanson said, it's a it's a constructive discussion. It's not just here's a dictate, this is what you have to you have to digitally transform it, how are we going to bring it together? One of the big things we find is that companies don't always look at what the pain points are, you know, there's a buzzword digital transformation, right, we've got to digitally transform. Let's go and throw loads of sensors out there, we'll send it all up to the cloud and figure out what we're gonna figure out. And it can't it's got to be the other way. What are we trying to do? Yeah, trying to go and get the OT and the IT guys on board so that you know, what's possible. Start with starting with the end in mind 18:36 seeing I love that, starting with the end of mine I but the reality is haunted is that companies to be truly resilient to have some sort of longevity some legacy, or they're just going to have to embrace digital transformation. And and, and it makes sense. It's not just buzzwords out there. It makes sense. Is that correct? 18:58 Of course it does. And if anything, if you look at the last 18 months at the start of the pandemic, I think the the manufacturing and the industrial segment was one that was impacted the most when global supply chains just just locked down overnight. Everything was in shortage, you know, you didn't have no draw materials, you couldn't get consumers the products they needed in time. And that speaks a lot to your business, right. You're as a manufacturer, it's your duty to get things to the market to the shelves on time for the customers to consume. So that and like Alex mentioned this at the top of our discussion that he has seen there's been there was a kind of a dip but then the acceleration in adoption of technology had just just skyrocketed. I think it's got a lot to do with this jolting reality that that that many of the industrial customers faced at the start of the pandemic that uh, you know what, we are not as resilient as we thought we were our supply chains. You know, our ecosystems are not as resilient as resilient as they thought we they're so what is the problem if people move to two Remote working, you know, model overnight, across the globe, it was not just one place and no no company. No, no nobody I've ever spoken to in the last 18 months had a disaster recovery or business continuity plan that accounted for a global pandemic of this nature, not not one not. So everybody was caught unawares, and that proves the app. But the ones who had made those investments in technologies were the ones who were able to pivot really quickly. For example, I can, you know, locally in in the US, we have Walmart, they were the one of the earliest were able to offer online shopping pickup in store. Yeah, so having that having that supply chain resilience, because they had made investments in the technology needed to support that, that you know, and having an app having the ability to provide consumers with a with a mobile phone app that they could use to quickly make those orders. And, you know, and check what the status is of the order. I think that makes a lot of sense. And again, it comes to having not just the digital tools in hand, but the fact that they have visibility across the entire data spectrum. They know what's where, in what's coming, what's not coming. Yeah. So So again, it brings us back to the table that technologies should not be invested for technology's sake. But for the sake of how can I use these tools? technology is a tool. It's not the be all end all. It's like, how do I use this tool to make sure that I my company can be at the best that it can ever be? 21:28 How do I get Alex Alex's point having the end in sight? Right? I think Alex, and maybe it's just me, I believe pre pandemic, we were somewhat lazy. And I and when I say lazy, it's like, hey, whatever to your point. Honza is that, you know, nobody had global pandemic on their, you know, disaster recovery plan. Nobody is I got but that's hurricane that's fine, you know, whatever. But we were lazy. But now I find that we have the ability to be able to truly trends. And I've mine, me consumers DNA has already been altered. I look at I like the world differently. Right? And it's because I it's like, yeah, I'm never going into that store over there. Because they bring the groceries out to me. Yeah. And it's so. So what do we do, Alex? How do we, how do we facilitate, there's still a lot of resistance, I'm just good, bad and ugly, positive negatives, everything in between in the spectrum is is definitely out there. Give us a roadmap on how we can begin to bring the OT and it together in this whole digital world that we're living in. Okay, 22:44 yeah. Just before I do that, just jumping to a point that Hansel mentioned, around that whole idea of remote. Everybody was going remote. You look at how that solves a big problem in industrial. So yeah, we had COVID. And everybody was working from home. One of the biggest headaches for manufacturing CEOs at the moment is talent. Everybody not about people retires right? loss of skills, you know, who who's the people with that tacit knowledge about how to run it. So the things that have been put in place, post COVID are actually things that are crucial, a little bit longer term for the industry over the next few years, as we see people retiring anyway, remote Centers of Excellence where there's training, augmented reality, these ideas about providing additional training. So I would just highlight that I think Hansie Hansie is the great word jolt is kind of jolted people, but it's also now support in the future. Yeah, like that. In terms of what needs to be done now? Yeah, I think one of the big things is coaching, you've got networking and infrastructure, you've got that all the technology, but the people part is key. And as hunter mentioned, sometimes it's got to start at the CEO. But one thing that we've seen some companies do is actually transfer jobs. So we've seen it where it had the CIO has actually been pushed into a CIO role. environment or vice versa to say, look, you guys are going to experience what their their pain points are really get exposure to what they care about, you know, an IT guy, his idea of downtime, is we're going to force a patch and you're going to have to run it and yeah, yeah, the OT side is like, you are not going to interrupt production. That's the one we cover. So just getting shared experiences is one way we've seen it being done and is interesting. 24:34 Because that that your you bring up. I've heard that conversation a number of times where Hey, I've got to do a patch. You're not bringing me down. Everybody's complaining about it, doing whatever they can, but we have this other thing going on here and it's just it's a constant state of flux and pressure and friction and it's not a good thing. I like that idea. About Alright, okay, IT manager Come on. To LTE and see what that's like, Okay, I think that that really sort of opens up other solutions or insights. Right? What else? What else do we need to do? 25:11 Oh, well, one more thing is that in most places, it is given a mandate. It's like your CEO, it's your job to keep the lights running, and it's your job to make sure it my ot guys get what they want on time. But then, to allow them to do that also requires you to make investments in in in it. But that's not how it works. It's like, Hey, I know, you know, hey, it got to take 20% of your costs off. And then at the same time, give me the word, you know, how is that going to happen? And if that's not how it works, the other aspect is that many times the CIOs office, short sells itself. Like they have the ability to bring a unique perspective on the role that technology can play in bettering the business. But they don't usually do that they are at the table. But they sit at the table and they they just listen to what everybody else is saying. And then they say, oh, know what these are the requirements that we see. And but you have to be proactive, get the it ot guys in the same table, talk. And don't forget marketing. Those guys are essential, because they are the ones who are out in the market to the customer. So they so you bring all these perspectives and as to what the customer wants, what the business wants, and what technology can do to facilitate that. I think that having that conversation where everybody is an equal partner on the table, I think that's essential. Yeah, 26:38 we think a lot about the C suite. And senior leadership is really about bringing the people with you on the journey. Yeah, we see a lot of projects where, hey, we're gonna do this. And, you know, Bob, the maintenance engineer says, I'm not going to have at this technology come in and take my job. And you know, it gets mothballed. So it's really supporting the people that are going to be using these technologies. We see companies doing things like data, citizenship programs, they have get data champions, we saw one vendor of the solutions that we're doing that kind of drink your own medicine. They offered incentives were people on the line, if they came up with good applications, for these projects for digital transformation projects, they get a bonus. And so now now, rather than everybody seeing it as a potential threat is like, Hey, cool, we can prove our jobs we we bought into the introductions technology. 27:28 Yeah, that's it, that's got a lot to do with democratizing innovation within the business. It's like Mark 27:33 Holden, hello, I gotta write that one down democratizing of innovation. 27:39 Yeah. And that's something we're seeing, you know, when I speak to a lot of vendors, and I speak to enterprises across the spectrum, not just industrial. So I see a lot of that happening in, in sectors like retail, or hospitality and logistics and banking, where they are equipping their, you know, non it employees with the tools to come up with solutions that still, you know, fit the compliance and security requirements of the enterprise. They work with the existing infrastructure, but it allows them to come up with small modifications of features to do something faster and get something done quicker. So the customer is happy. And these innovations and are then put together, it could be a hackathon, a lot of people, you know, they use that word now hackathon, where you have your citizen developers, as they're called, working on bringing in some new ideas, new, new, innovative uses of existing technology within the enterprise. And having that approach itself is essential. And and that kind of familiarizes everyone with it, it's all it is not a bad word. It's not a black box, where you just throw in some requirements and expect that it gives you results. But then, but having that ability to bring I think it requires a lot of communication requires a lot of change, management will happen in the background, but breaking that glass barrier between it and OT and telling them that you know, you're not you're not enemies, you guys are all on the same journey with everybody else in this organization. We all got to work together to pull this in a business down into the digital future. I 29:12 think that's essential, especially for the industrial environments. that's crucial. So for talent acquisition. Now the idea Yes, hearing, you know, who wants to, you know, pick up a greasy Spanner that that's not attractive to the new workforce when you're hiring these technologies that is really crucial for for manufacturers. 29:33 Yeah, that is like it's huge. So what I hear you saying, and it's First off, I like the idea of trance, you know, transferring jobs good enough, no, be a part of this whole greater picture, see what people are doing. I like the the need to invest in it can't just pull back and then try to do that. I understand that. I like the fact that bringing people on the journey on this digital transformation journey. And then finally, of course, the demise of democratizing The, the innovation, I like that it has to happen from, from a business perspective, it makes good business sense. And it is truly the technologies, the technology, right? It's people, it always gets down to people. Yeah. And being able to bring them in. Okay, so we got all that sounds great. Kumbaya, I'm all in. But there's there's always roadblocks. What are the roadblocks? 30:35 The biggest one, which I see in from the technology standpoint is the fact that I mentioned right at the start in a legacy system 30 year old for Yeah, which are, which have been, you know, it so many fixes have been applied on top of it. So many layers and layers of, you know, API, or whatever you want to call it, Devon birth, it's baked on top, to such an extent that the system has become extremely brittle. And there is this, there is this fear this this fear that freezes most of the industrial CIOs in their tracks, or when they will even think of touching that legacy system, you know, what, if I don't know what's going on, because 40 year old technology, the guys who built it are dead. There's nobody there anymore, who knows the code, there is no documentation that exists. But if I'm gonna go tinker with it, I gotta be dead sure that I can come out of it, you know, without disrupting and without breaking the business. So what do I do? Uh, you know, what, just let it be let it run in the background, we build one more layer of API's on top of it. Right, right. Yeah. Because it because each generation of CEO does not our CIO does not want to carry the blame of being the one who broke the business. End of the day, yeah, it's like it's a job. So I think getting rid of there are tools now that are available that that can help break that chain of legacy break that dependency on the legacy system by containerizing it by quarantining it and building incrementally, there are automation tools out there. And there are vendors who are who have got those tools and got the talent who can come in and take the rules take the business rules, the logic and the the intricate details from the legacy system, the custom, the hundreds of 1000s of customizations that have been built on top over the decades, and take them out and make sense of them and bring them to the digital age one by one with an you retire it in portions without really, you know, breaking it, essentially. So I think having that that approach and having that courage, I would say to kickstart that initiative, and go ahead and do it. And once you're, it may take three years, it may or may take five years, but then once you have retired that legacy system, you're no longer bound by the ball and chain that prevents the business from moving at the speed and the flexibility that the digital age demands. 33:03 See, I knew that that was gonna if you want to add to that there, Alex, because that's a tough one to follow, right? There is a good 33:13 part is that right? setting expectations around rate of change as well, you can get people again, it and ot is different worlds, a laptop lasts for three to five years, you know, a machine might last 50 years. So there's this idea, hey, things are gonna change. And you're not just going to replace, you know, half a million dollar machines just for the sake of doing IoT. So kind of responses that you strategize, you've got to find where you can do it now. We're going to build it in the long term. But as you're doing all of that, I think it's the data side of it. Going back to what you mentioned earlier, is key having a very clear data management strategy. How are we going to Yeah, not just recoated things a little bit. So they integrate and just kind of work now. But how is this going to be tied into our long term goal of everything integrates having a very considered clear data management. 34:05 Yeah. I like it people 34:06 people say data is new oil. But you know, we don't put oil in our cars we put gasoline in the data needs to be refined. So we don't need just the oil refinery to make it something we can use. 34:20 Yes, now, that is the first time I've ever heard that. And I like it. I like the word. That's alright. So I'm going to steal that. And I'm going to claim it my own. No, I'm not. I want. But I do like it. You're absolutely right. And a lot of people, this is another topic, but I've got this legacy data. And it's dirty and it's filthy. It's great. I don't even know how you begin to refine that data. Nobody ever wants to raise their hand and say, I'll take care of it. Nobody. I haven't met one person. They say yeah, maybe but then they just fall off. Okay, we're gonna have to wrap this up. Now. Ponce, how do they get ahold of you? 34:57 You can reach us anybody wants to talk to me can reach me on My email id just turns out I anger@omdia.com or ask an analyst@omdia.com. So you can send a query to ask an analyst and they will get put you in touch with me or Alex or whoever else it is within omdia. Who can answer that question for you 35:15 like that. Alex, how do we get a hold of you? Because you, you did well against concept because she's he's bad, but I'm telling you right now she goes, yeah. 35:24 Alex west on the.com asked Matt, I saw someone. All right. Follow up. Questions. 35:30 You guys were absolutely wonderful. Thank you very much, you brought a lot of clarity into a topic that I believe well is still at the beginning. And and it is still a journey. I always talk about the journey. But But you're the professionals. I am just at the humble learner in this whole event. Thank you very much for being on the podcast. Our pleasure, thank you for having us. All right, listeners, we're gonna wrap it up on the other side, you know, you're gonna have all the contact information with both of these fine professionals. So, so don't come to me and say, I can't get ahold of him, because that's a lie, because it'll be out on industrial talk.com. So stay tuned. You're listening to the industrial talk, Podcast Network. All right, a hearty thank you to Alex and Honza for being on industrial talk. The company is omdia we talked again, OT i t convergence, important conversation for you to have, make it happen. They've got the solutions, look them up. Because you can go on industrial talk.com. Right. And you can find the contact information, you're not going to be disappointed. All right. redcross.org. You know, they have a Hurricane Ike to help out there. Consider. There's a lot of people that are in need of support and solution. So consider that put that on your bucket list to do. All right. We've got the industrial Academy out there, sharing all this great knowledge to people that really can be transformed by trying to make it easy for them. Industrial talk is trying to make it easy for them. So consider to be to be a member. And look at that. Thank you. All right. Thank you for doing what you do. It is an honor to be able to know you and you'll be a part of it. Thank you very much. We're going to have another conversation right around the corner when we get the Wi Fi back up. So stay tuned.