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After Josepha, Physical Aggression Rising, Estonia is the new Finland.
Episode 52nd April 2024 • Anseo.net - If I were the Minister for Education • Simon Lewis
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In this episode, I reflect on the implications of Josepha Madigan's departure as the Minister for Special Education and whether the position will ever exist again. I also ponder on the INTO's survey on physical aggression. Finally, we move to Estonia and explore why they are now kings and queens of Europe and why Ireland won't be the best education system in Europe by 2026.

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Speaker:

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Hello?

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Hello.

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You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education from anseo dot net.

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A regular podcast, where I look at

the world of primary education and

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I let you know what I would do.

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If I were the minister for education.

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This is Simon Lewis.

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Speaking on this week's show, I will be

looking at life after Josefa Madigan.

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The rate of physical aggression is

rising in our classrooms and why.

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Estonia is the new Finland

and lot stops more.

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Besides if you're interested in

subscribing to our newsletter or tuning

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into our radio podcasts, you can do so by

locking onto anseo.net , slash subscribe,

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or you can go into your favorite

podcasting platform and subscribe there.

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This.

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Podcast is also on YouTube these days.

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So you can go into anseo.net.

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YouTube channel and you're going

to hit subscribe as well, and it

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will be there and ready and waiting

for you every couple of weeks

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The newsletter is available to you

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and your inbox every two weeks.

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If you subscribe.

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And as well as the latest podcast

episode, I lost a beat tanning you

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other stories that I've been thinking

about over the last couple of weeks,

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and bite-size bits, I'll also be

showing you some exceptional posts I

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found on Twitter or X as it's now known.

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And every two weeks, I'll be providing you

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with a mini CPD project which generally

focused on technology and education.

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And this week I've made a video about

using AI and the wisdom of the crowd

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to develop a chapter of a textbook.

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You can have a look at that by

subscribing to the newsletter, as

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I said, on anseo.net/subscribe, and

I have a lovely template for you

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to create a chapter of a textbook.

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I in the video here, I give an example.

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I go back to my birthplace

of Rathmines and Dublin.

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And I create a chapter of a textbook

on the history, the geography, the

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logo on them of Rathmines, or And

and I'll show you how to do that.

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So let's get straight into our episode

where we look at the big story.

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Over the last two weeks, which was

the resignation of Josefa Madigan.

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From the political world, she will

not be contacting the next election,

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but step down as the minister for

special education, possibly we

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are not going to see a minister

for special education again.

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I thought it might be a good idea

to maybe look back at the last few

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years of Boucher C for Madigan's.

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Legacy how she did what she did and what

she may have been able to do better.

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And if we are to get a minister for

special education in the future, what

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they might do if they are the minister

and I did this on my blog, which you

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can read on Simon M lewis.medium.com.

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And what I have my post is obviously,

if you're looking at YouTube,

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you can see my picture here.

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Have a look alike of Josefa.

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Madigan cutting a red ribbon in a school.

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And I felt that we were talking

about Josefa Madigan in the

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future or her successor.

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If there is one, we should be

cutting red tape, not ribbons.

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And.

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I wanted to talk to you a little bit about

my thoughts on just see for Madigan's.

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And I suppose in the wider context,

the way politics has been going.

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In education over the

last couple of years.

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And, it was cleaned of historic when

just Eva Madigan was given a position,

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a new position of the minister

for special education, a junior

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ministry, but a ministry dedicated

to special education, right in the

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middle of COVID 19, actually in 2020.

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And after a decade, I said, after a

decade of cuts and serve it to services

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and supports to special education.

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And the portfolio did come

with a very big budget.

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And you will know that budget because

every time you mentioned special

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education in a PQ and a question in

the door, they will tell you how much

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they've invested in special education.

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It's 2 billion a year, by the way,

just in case you don't know both.

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I argue in my article.

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Rather than spending that money wisely,

she kowtowed to populous pressure and

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left the portfolio a bureaucratic mess.

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I want to chart how she did

and you'll see from, if you're

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a reader you can read alarm.

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If you're watching the video hear

or listen along, if you're on the

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normal podcast where I said, I felt

when she took on the post, it was

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the middle of the COVID 19 pandemic.

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And it was really, any minister, his

first obstacle was to navigate that time.

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And.

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In fairness, she really struggled.

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I feel at find your feet app.

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Particularly in terms of her language,

where she would say she misspoke on

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a number of occasion, probably her

most famous examples where, when

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she referred to children without

special needs, Normal children.

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And she also talked about the

lack of special school places.

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I'd been like the mother and baby homes,

trying to compare that, which caused

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a little bit of consternation though.

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I would be more forgiving of her

latter misspeak than her former one.

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Anyway.

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She tried her best.

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I suppose to assert herself with

that administer Norma Foley, add

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to guest services for children

with additional needs during

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a COVID and the The big thing.

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I suppose the big pressure from

the advocacy groups was to get

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the children back into school.

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Even though there was a pandemic at

the time and people were very scared

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that they would contract this disease.

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To which there was no vaccine at the time.

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There were people dying.

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At the time, but many parents were

basically saying the teacher has

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been very selfish by not allowing

their children come back to school.

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Even though they themselves wouldn't

go face to face with people in their

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own jobs and even funnier at me.

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I know it was never a funny time.

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Really?

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None of the advocacy groups were

doing anything face-to-face either.

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However, they thought sure teachers

should be working face-to-face

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with children for the greater good,

despite the fact that they weren't.

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Unfortunately, Madigan decided that she

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were to take the side of children with

additional needs by creating divisions

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between the advocacy groups, parents.

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And schools and relationships

remain fractious.

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Even today I'm most recently

in the conflict over special

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education teaching allocations.

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And that fractiousness is bizarre.

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It's weird.

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We've got schools as school

principals, AB op against their

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own representative groups.

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You've got parents.

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Up against the department of education.

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Barron's fighting with schools this

time and you've got the advocacy

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groups as well in the middle as well.

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It's all a bit bizarre.

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And anyway rather than

restoring an education system.

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During that recession they

decided Josefa Madigan.

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And minister on remotely

rather than actually.

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Bringing back the resources that were

there because some of you might remember

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the first thing that happened during

the recession was a 15% cut to serve a,

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to a resource hours as they were known.

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Then.

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Two children with additional

needs and schools.

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Which has been continued now that

they've removed at the supports

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for children with complex needs.

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Rather than all that kind of stuff,

because they're not the things that

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matter really to children and additional

these, they don't need learning support.

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They don't need any of that kind of stuff.

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No.

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What they need is free hot lunches,

free school books, free summer

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programs and free school buses.

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Yes.

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And Madigan who described herself as

being relentless, what they wanted

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and what they needed was to open

as many special classes for autism.

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Add all.

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At all costs.

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Without actually thinking whether

those classes were the right solution.

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And I want to talk about

ponder on this a little bit.

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There's some things that

aren't argued about.

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I mentioned a lot of these free

things that have happened, like free

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hot lunches and free school books.

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No one argues that these are, bad things.

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These are great things for education.

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Yes.

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When you think about

them, free hot lunches.

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Obviously I will absolutely defend that.

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I think that's fair enough.

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Ah, that creates equity in a system.

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So children from disadvantaged backgrounds

on children, if not from disadvantaged

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backgrounds, we'll all benefit.

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And we've seen studies across

the world about the benefits of

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fire, hot lunches in schools.

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Free school books is great for

parents and affordability, but

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not very good pedagogically.

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The free summer program has been, is fine.

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But again, not being evaluated in

any way, shape or form and the free

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school buses is just a complete mess.

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But I could, I have a whole,

I could do a whole episode.

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In fact, I have done a full

episode on school buses.

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Why they are a mess as they are,

but opening special cut as many of

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these special classes for autism as

possible without thinking about, are

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they the actually the right answer?

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And you could talk to different people.

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You could talk to

inclusion Ireland who may.

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Who might have opinions on that?

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You could talk to people who who

studied these kinds of things.

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In fact, I had a look and Joanne banks.

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I'm Michael Shevlin of

Trinity college and noticed.

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I noted in our 2022 survey, after

all these class are open, is there's

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been this rapid expansion of these

special cost models, but only limited

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investigation of their efficacy.

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And they've said basically that

a lot of this was essentially

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influenced by parents.

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Looking for them.

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Without actually thinking whether

they're the right solution.

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Yes.

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On the surface, they sound like great

ideas, small classes, a teacher to SNS six

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children, what could possibly go wrong?

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But what possibly goes wrong is the

fact that what happens in these classes.

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What about the local therapy supports?

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There's none of that.

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What about the training for the T?

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What about actual trained

teachers in special education?

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What about appropriate accommodation?

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In fact, because a lot of these

things are built in and small

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prefabs that are isolated from

the rest of the school community.

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They're there, if they're lucky,

even though they're in prefab.

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So a lot of them are in these sort

of I don't know Repurposed cupboards.

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Probably for want of a better word.

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And as well as our special classes,

as they were set out to be as

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integration for integration into

mainstream, they no longer serve the

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aims now that they were set out when

their scheme was first introduced.

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And it's a real pity because I

think if they were done well, they

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could actually work very well.

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And I think some will argue opening

special cuts or autism is necessary.

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And many might argue that they work

well simply I think simply putting

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six children in a classroom with

a teacher and two special ed needs

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assistance is a model that only works.

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Thanks to Goodwill and guesswork.

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I think our entire special

education needs model is founded.

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On Goodwill and guesswork.

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It works when it works.

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But when a child needs more

specialized interventions, not

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just a small class and a couple of

extra people or light therapy room.

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When it goes beyond that, it

can disintegrate very quickly.

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And we are seeing over the last

couple of years, a lot of cases

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been taken by parents against

school boards and management.

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For things that I would argue are

not the fault of the school, but the

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fault of the system that is completely

relying on Goodwill and guesswork.

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We don't have any specialized

training course for teachers

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to work in special education.

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You can do a couple of day

course that you can do these

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one day courses on very basic.

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Does the same course it's been going

for the last 20 years but there is no

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specialized qualification for a teacher.

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To work in a special class, we don't

have at the specialist therapies, the

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wraparound therapies that are needed.

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It's just, it's not good enough.

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And it needs to be good enough

because opening these classes.

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Yes, it makes headlines, but

does it make a difference?

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I think Madigan would have done better

to focus on much quieter solutions.

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So cut out this cutting of ribbons,

opening the ad, these headline,

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grabbing things about opening this

opening, that it's all very sexy and

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lovely, but we need quiet solutions.

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We have children that are sitting

on waiting lists for interventions,

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like speech and language

therapy for years and years.

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And we are not training enough people

to become speech, language therapists.

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We need to occupational therapists.

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We need loads of other therapies

and they're not existing.

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We need therapies.

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For a mental health, emotional behavioral

psychology, psychological interventions.

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We need all this and we need more

learning support as it was known

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literacy and numeracy support.

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And instead schools are getting

cut and they might say, oh, we've

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plowed in more money than ever, but

there are more and more, there are

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far more children than digital use.

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And there were several years ago

and we are not putting in the

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amount of resources that are needed.

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We are not following the children.

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We're allocating schools, resources

with junk data and it's, do

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you know what the whole system.

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Is founded on Goodwill and guesswork.

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And sand.

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And I mean that by a bad

foundation, rather than.

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Actual sand.

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It's going to sink and it's going

to sink really badly at some point.

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And what's going to happen is we're

going to put layers and layers more

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bureaucracy as we were doing that already.

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And it just isn't working.

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Anyway, Madigan's ministry is now going

to be absorbed once again, just the main

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education portfolio and it's possible.

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We may never see a special education

minister again in future cabinets.

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However, if we do, we need to learn

from the mistakes that have been made.

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For example, the front-loading model

that we introduced in:

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education teachers and special needs

assistance has been an absolute failure.

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And we need to move back to

systems where children's needs.

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Were linked to the resources

that were going to the school.

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So it child's needs can be followed

from birth all the way through their

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schooling and schools should never,

ever be asked to prioritize their

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support to the highest levels of needs.

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Every child, no matter what their needs

should get their support, we shouldn't

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be asked to choose for children who

should get support and children who

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need support not to get support.

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We also need to stop the

spiraling bureaucracy that is

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happening, for example, in 2003.

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And this is, I always give this example

because I think it's a really good

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example for what happened in 2003, the

national council for special education,

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the NCAC had 15 office staff and 72

people working directly with schools.

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The CNAs.

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Within by within 15, 16 years, there

were then from 15 office staff.

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There are now 150 office staff and only

66 people working directly with schools.

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So fewer people working in schools.

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And those more people working in the

offices, we need to cut that red tape.

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However, most importantly,

we need our plan.

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We need a good plan.

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And the first step is to bring

it's bring back the parents, the

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advocacy groups and the schools.

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We need to bring them back

to gather talking again.

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A lot of damage was caused by Josefa

Madigan with her divisive tactics in

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trying to pick parents against each other.

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And it works so well.

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If you only have to go on Twitter,

At the moment and put something

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up about special education.

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You have these.

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You've got some lovely advocacy groups,

but you had some horrible I've at people

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claiming to be advocacy groups there.

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They, in fairness, A lot of them

are behind these anonymous accounts.

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You don't know who they are really,

but some of them you do is that

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you do see, and they can be vicious

against schools really unfairly.

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And and I think it's not right.

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And what we need to do really, rather

than giving out to each other and getting

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defensive or anything like that, because

I suppose I'm already getting defensive.

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And what I'm saying there is, we need to

bring parents, advocacy groups and schools

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back together talking about what do we

need and having an absolute clear path

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of what actually best for our children.

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Because that's essentially.

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At the, all that we, all of us

want when we actually do want it.

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And that's the annoying thing

about this as the minister.

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And on successive governments

before, before have been cutting and

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cutting, and the amount of supports

for children with additional needs.

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Parents are getting very frustrated

by the fact that they're not getting

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any of the therapies from the HSE.

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They're not getting any of the supports

from the various ad agencies and bit

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pretty much sometimes the only support

that a family will have for our child

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with additional needs is the school.

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I'm in the school can't fulfill.

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All the needs for that child who is there

to blame only the school and, it just,

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it becomes a mess and it isn't right.

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And it's not fair on a school schools.

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And in fairness to schools, the

fact is that we were actually

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doing as much as we possibly can

through Goodwill and guesswork.

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Loads of us are going for training

to try and do as much as we can.

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Many are doing things that

we shouldn't be doing.

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We are, we're taking on recommendations

of occupational therapists and speech

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terrorist, speech, and language

therapists, even though we're not

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qualified whatsoever to do a lot of the

stuff that's being asked of where, some,

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a lot of teachers in the past and will

have S and A's in the past are learning.

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Different skills such as that, I had

to do a law, which is a sign language.

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They're learning about

educational technology.

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Which got assistive technology, couldn't

help a child's communication, different

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ways of teaching the children to do

that and teaching themselves such.

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And helping families.

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I don't, unfortunately,

it's very unforgiving.

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It's really young for giving.

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There is a huge division that's being

created and I believe has been created by.

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The minister for education.

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A hundred to see for Madigan.

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Where there's absolute Kind

of an atmosphere of blame.

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An anger against the very people who

are doing their very best, a lot of the

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time, and yes, they do make mistakes.

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And sometimes there are bad eggs in

there, but overall, I don't think it's,

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again, I hate using percentages, but I

think, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be

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unfair to say 99% of education staff.

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Are doing everything they can to

make school as positive a place as

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possible for every child, whether

they have additional needs or not.

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And it's really difficult.

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It's really difficult when

wraparound supports aren't there.

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And if there is to be a minister

for special education in the future.

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The only thing they should be doing

now is ensuring that the wraparound

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supports are there and available

for children with additional needs.

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And that we have.

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Teachers that are fully

qualified in working with

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children with additional needs.

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And we need to examine whether special

classes are actually the answer.

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Why are we opening all

these special classes?

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And if we are and what I'm find

out, what is their purpose?

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We have just so people know.

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And again, this is just

a point of interest.

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The special classes that are out there.

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An over 99% of these special

classes are for autistic children.

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They're for no other

additional need ratings.

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You've got well over a thousand.

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Autism classes, but you've got,

I think, less than 10 behavioral,

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emotional emotional needs.

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Casas.

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You've got in terms of reading

classes, I think there's less than 20.

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So we're doing.

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Huge damage.

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With these.

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By, by not giving children what they

need and the next minister for a

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special education needs to do that.

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As I say, stop trying to look for

headlines, start looking for solutions.

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That's what I would be doing.

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If I were the minister for education.

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Let's move on at, to the next story.

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And it looks the next story

that came up in my news.

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Was basically.

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Results of a survey from the INTO,

which highlights that half our

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primary school teachers are the

target of physical aggression in

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classrooms at a survey found this year.

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Now, if the I N T O were nice people

and they looked back at surveys done

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by the national principal's forum, who

id exactly the same survey in:

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where they found that the same number of

primary school teachers were the target

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of physical aggression in classrooms.

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They wouldn't have had to do this survey.

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At all, if they stopped ignoring

the brilliant research that is done

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by the national principal's forum.

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And if you would like to learn more about

the national principal's forum, some

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would argue the only advocacy group or

the only lobby group, doing anything at

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the moment to help school leaders in their

role highlighting brilliant research.

389

:

If I may say so myself, I do help

them, on a part of the national

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:

principal form, it sounds like I'm.

391

:

I'm blowing my own trumpet here, but I

am really proud of the work that we do.

392

:

I'm really proud of the fact that when

it came down to it, when it came to

393

:

the sat allocations, just going back to

special education at the moment, we are

394

:

the only lobby group that spoke out

about the sat allocations and how a

395

:

complex needs children with complex needs

were being an absolutely cast aside.

396

:

And we're still in there.

397

:

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-15:

And loved the fact dash and the department

398

:

of education were so rattled by the

fact that over 700 principals signed

399

:

a petition about this allocations.

400

:

They went to the trouble of going

through each of those 700 names to try

401

:

and disprove that so many principals

had Had I actually felt that way and

402

:

they ch oh, it was just ridiculous.

403

:

And even, and also on top of that, they

got their friends, they got the IPN

404

:

to write some press release to say,

oh, all this research is nonsense.

405

:

They really got rattled by it.

406

:

It it was embarrassing.

407

:

It was really embarrassing to see

both the department of education

408

:

and the IPPA going to such a low.

409

:

To try and tell principals that

they were wrong around at the sat

410

:

allocations, and that's still going

to go on and that's not going away.

411

:

And I'm hoping.

412

:

Because I suppose when this is going

out to the INTP Congress will be

413

:

happening on, I imagine special education

will come up in some way, and I hope

414

:

someone will mention the complex

needs thing, but what I am most proud

415

:

of the national pins for the wound

survey I'm most proud of is actually

416

:

one called the inclusion illusion.

417

:

And when I say inclusion, I

only mean special education.

418

:

In this case, I find the word

inclusion very annoying, but for this

419

:

purposes, we called it the inclusion

illusion, because it's a good title.

420

:

And it basically was the results of over

a thousand primary school principals.

421

:

Telling us exactly how special

education was working in their schools.

422

:

I'm one of the find there is loads

of findings in it, and I read a

423

:

really good our findings with the

one that actually made the headlines

424

:

and actually was in the front page

of the Irish examiner back in:

425

:

Was the fact that I think it was roughly

about the same over 60% of primary school.

426

:

Principals said dash.

427

:

Physical aggression.

428

:

Ah, happened within

this go quite regularly.

429

:

So anyway.

430

:

A few years later, the ITO have

found exactly the same, which is

431

:

on surprising when they could have

actually been something about it.

432

:

I'm not sure if they're actually going

to do anything about it this time anyway,

433

:

but at the report read, he says that the

in fairness, The only two, I actually

434

:

agree with them in this case, I'm often

critical of the union but the thing is I

435

:

do absolutely agree with their findings

and the lack of adequate therapeutic and

436

:

mental health supports for pupils and the

lack of additional training for teachers.

437

:

Are the big causes of this

problem, where there is physical

438

:

aggression at, in the school.

439

:

Now what the union might be doing.

440

:

Which is something they should be

doing is protecting their members

441

:

from physical aggression, whatever

way it comes and to put pressure.

442

:

On the government to ensure that

those wraparound services and

443

:

saying our teachers are not going

to put up with being physically

444

:

attacked, physically being.

445

:

Hers in their workplace.

446

:

And you need to do you need to put in

place these things as, so that this

447

:

doesn't happen because it's not, and

it's not basically, the balance here

448

:

is trying not to blame the children

because it isn't the children's fault.

449

:

no school in the country

at these days anyway.

450

:

Very few schools these days have not

experienced a child who has experienced

451

:

or who is exhibiting physical aggression.

452

:

And every single time it is born to

absolute frustration and distress.

453

:

It's not because one day a child

dies, I'm going to be built and

454

:

I'm going to hit my teacher.

455

:

That doesn't happen.

456

:

It's through distress.

457

:

There is still that line there where a

child is not going to be hurting or have.

458

:

Acting out physically again,

strategic, unless they're in a state

459

:

of distress and the government need

to do something about it, because if

460

:

they don't, we're going to find this.

461

:

That's the profession that we are.

462

:

That we respect or

supposedly respect so much.

463

:

But we're finding teachers are

leaving the system because it

464

:

is too dangerous to be there.

465

:

It's too hard and it's too

difficult and it's becoming unsafe

466

:

and there are easier and better.

467

:

And well-paid jobs out there.

468

:

That don't have the same

sort of a thing going on.

469

:

And when I'm talking about physical

aggression, it's just one thing,

470

:

but also the way that the role

has become very disrespected.

471

:

A lot of the time not only in the

media, but I'm also in through,

472

:

at the structures of the system.

473

:

It's not catching up.

474

:

As I said, teaching used to be

this really attractive profession

475

:

because of the holidays, but now

most companies are catching up with

476

:

making their places attractive.

477

:

It's nice to go into a

lot of workplaces now.

478

:

And some of the.

479

:

Benefits of other workplaces kind of way.

480

:

The nice holidays that teachers seem

to be beaten over the head with a,

481

:

when they got it such as working

from home and things like that.

482

:

But anyway, let's move on to Estonia,

which has now become the new.

483

:

Country, or this is an article

from the guardian, by the way.

484

:

This has popped up on my screen and.

485

:

You should see this, you should

support newspapers and media.

486

:

If that, if they're doing good stories,

I have supported the guardian and I do.

487

:

AB offer them.

488

:

A little bit, a bit, every time

I see an article that I featured

489

:

in this podcast, but Estonia.

490

:

Has now the best schools in Europe

they've taken over from Finland.

491

:

And it said they, their headlines

here, free lunches, brain

492

:

breaks and happy teachers.

493

:

I mentioned free lunches earlier on.

494

:

How I support that.

495

:

As a mechanism, but the thing about

Astonia versus Ireland, the way

496

:

we do free lunches is so complex.

497

:

I just don't understand if we do it.

498

:

Every school has to organize their

own free lunches rather than different

499

:

local areas that are a local education,

a target providing schools with the

500

:

free lunches and delivering them and

done and paying people to do that.

501

:

No, we have to do everything through

a grant and the grant January doesn't

502

:

cover it and we have all this waste,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

503

:

In Estonia.

504

:

They probably do a batter.

505

:

I'm sure they do a bachelor.

506

:

In fact, I know they do a

better idea of brain breaks.

507

:

This is this is something that's not new

to most teachers in Ireland, but we don't

508

:

have the supports for those brain breaks.

509

:

As they call them, we call them

movement breaks a lot of the time.

510

:

And they're obviously in

built the Estonian education

511

:

system and a happy teachers.

512

:

And that's interesting about

happy teachers, what they do

513

:

is they treat their teachers.

514

:

And they have all those wraparound

supports that we don't have.

515

:

They also do a lot of the stuff that

Finland is famous for, particularly

516

:

using their space so much better.

517

:

I really recommend you read this

article because I think what I

518

:

saw when I went to Finland, And

I think Estonia is no different.

519

:

I'm hoping to go to Astonia one day,

it's how they use their space and how

520

:

to have these wraparound services.

521

:

The teachers can focus on

teaching small class sizes.

522

:

Yes.

523

:

Is part of it.

524

:

But isn't the biggest part of it.

525

:

It's that use of space outside?

526

:

How do they use the outdoor spaces?

527

:

This vast place?

528

:

All these schools are built

on really large complexes.

529

:

Where the children are outside for

a lot of the day, they're able to

530

:

move around for other day, children

walk to school, they walk home from

531

:

school because their school is within

walking distance from their house.

532

:

And they aren't under the whole kind

of obligation of having to choose a

533

:

different school because they don't,

aren't at the same religion of whatever.

534

:

Anyway, all the same reasons.

535

:

I really recommend you read the article.

536

:

I just think there's a

lovely picture of a school.

537

:

They build schools so well.

538

:

This is just a.

539

:

To some of the outdoor look

at your I'm just scrolling.

540

:

Nancy.

541

:

You can see some of the pictures.

542

:

That's the laundry music.

543

:

They have a lunch room.

544

:

For example, we, again throw these ads

wrenches into the discuss your 10 minutes.

545

:

Eat your lunch.

546

:

There's all these kinds of things

that make such a big difference.

547

:

Look at that.

548

:

That's one of the skills is not beautiful.

549

:

And we have our repeat generic

design when we come to buildings.

550

:

Just to creativity.

551

:

This didn't start today or yesterday, of

course, Estonia decided that they would

552

:

prioritize education in 1997 and 20 early.

553

:

I'd actually 25 years later, they have

the best education system in Europe.

554

:

Richard Bruton back in

:

555

:

Arland we'll have the best

education system in Europe.

556

:

Fat chance of that happening.

557

:

If we do not put in the money, the

resources, the time, the structures and

558

:

everything else, we've done nothing to

make Ireland the best education system.

559

:

In 2026, we punch way above our weight.

560

:

And I just have a feeling,

our look is going to run out

561

:

rather than the other way round.

562

:

The biggest strength that we

have in Ireland is that we

563

:

speak the English language.

564

:

I would argue as our first

language is our main language.

565

:

I'm not saying that as a to, to discount

Irish as a language, I'm just saying

566

:

it's such a good thing that we have.

567

:

We can go anywhere in the world.

568

:

With that language and be able to

communicate, but we are working

569

:

in conditions that somehow I

don't know how we managed to do so

570

:

well, but anyhow that is Astonia.

571

:

I wanted to move on to a different

article, which had came up from the

572

:

Irish times, which I subscribed to.

573

:

And the students are stressed, teachers

have little choice and creativity servers,

574

:

why the Irish costume needs to change

right now, this is an article that has

575

:

been heavily criticized by teachers.

576

:

It's by Carlo Brian from the Irish times

where he asked everyone on anyone, the

577

:

great and the good about what the Irish

classroom needs to do to change right now.

578

:

And he asked lots of not the people,

but for gosh to actually ask anyone

579

:

working in a school instead he talked

to various people and I think it's well

580

:

worth going through them very quickly.

581

:

It's well worth reading this article.

582

:

Although it is subscriber only, so I

won't go, ah, You'll have to probably

583

:

pay for the benefit of seeing us.

584

:

And Luke O'Neill who has nothing to do

a primary skills things, personalized

585

:

tutoring is the way, but he which is okay.

586

:

Yeah.

587

:

I dunno, scrap the CAO point system.

588

:

So Katrina Sullivan.

589

:

I agree with her, although that

second level, so I steer away from.

590

:

Second level really there

include creativity and an utterly

591

:

central way says Joe O'Connor,

who is our writer fully enough.

592

:

I agree with them again.

593

:

Pursue passion projects, Bobby

Healey, who is a, what is he?

594

:

I actually, he's an entrepreneur.

595

:

I do you know what.

596

:

I also agree with them.

597

:

And what do we have connect to nature?

598

:

Darren McAnulty who talks

about data naturalist?

599

:

And a writer.

600

:

I actually agree with them.

601

:

And we move on an all

Ireland education system.

602

:

This is from the I N T O.

603

:

John Boyle, who you could argue

is the only teacher within this.

604

:

He is a big into creating an

all Ireland education system,

605

:

which is really interesting.

606

:

And I don't disagree with it.

607

:

But it's going to be,

if we are to do that.

608

:

If we are to do that, what,

and the biggest barrier to

609

:

that actually will be religion.

610

:

Which is interesting because open.

611

:

As bad as things are down south.

612

:

We have our religiously controlled

education system, but most people

613

:

in it don't take it very seriously.

614

:

Whereas gov.

615

:

Goat north, if you're in a Catholic

school, you're in a Catholic school

616

:

and if you're in a Protestant school,

you're in a Protestant school.

617

:

And if you're in an integrated

school, which seems to be similar

618

:

enough to educate together, except

for the fact that they are still

619

:

Cristo norms of in a big way.

620

:

I think on all lines, education

system, the biggest barrier to

621

:

that is a religious question.

622

:

We've got Adam Harris is always

talking about autism and neuro-typical

623

:

making classrooms and E equal and

embracive of all neuro types, Andre.

624

:

Again, I don't disagree with that.

625

:

I agree with that so far, I've

not disagreed to anything again

626

:

EMA from educate together.

627

:

Again, we need more schools are run

by organizations as in our churches.

628

:

I would argue that no schools should

be run by churches, but again, I

629

:

agree generally with her point and

prepare for an AI driven world.

630

:

Absolutely agree with that.

631

:

Catherine Byrne, who is also not a

teacher, she's more of a complainer.

632

:

So As much as no teacher was looked

at for this article and no teacher

633

:

was asking for input into it.

634

:

There's nothing in, not a,

there's really nothing in there

635

:

that you disagree with too much.

636

:

You do just wish they might

have asked teachers about it.

637

:

And the trouble is all of

these issues are absolutely

638

:

necessary, but it's interesting.

639

:

I asked on Twitter.

640

:

Or on ax teachers?

641

:

Act because teachers are giving out okay.

642

:

Tell me then.

643

:

Okay.

644

:

What do teachers want?

645

:

And it's interesting the responses

that most teachers gave and

646

:

there's some really good responses.

647

:

But the ones that kind

of jumped out at me.

648

:

We're, weren't very sexy.

649

:

And that's not a criticism, but it's

like smaller class sizes, more support

650

:

for children with additional needs,

these kinds of things, the things.

651

:

The Carlo Brian would probably go, oh God,

I can't really get an article out of that.

652

:

So very sexy.

653

:

Ah, I need some AI in here.

654

:

I need some, Adam Harris.

655

:

There's a lot of criticism

though that came from the Sasha.

656

:

And I thought I'd let you know that

I didn't mention was it was the first

657

:

sentence here of the para of here, which

I actually agree with Ireland has in many

658

:

respects in 19th century school system

with 20th century technology, which for

659

:

all its achievement needs to be overhauled

to meet the needs of 21st century.

660

:

I think he's right.

661

:

A lot of people are very disgruntled

by data and particularly teachers who

662

:

were very innovative and are meeting

some of those needs, but they're not.

663

:

I think what, Carla, Brian.

664

:

Whether he means it or doesn't,

but I interpret from what she's

665

:

saying is that the system.

666

:

The system is not a 21st century system.

667

:

There's a lots of teachers

trying to shoe horn.

668

:

21st century methodologies

into their jobs.

669

:

But the trouble is we are working

in these little box rooms.

670

:

We don't use our space.

671

:

Very, we don't have the space schools.

672

:

Aren't built very well.

673

:

The rooms aren't very good.

674

:

There's not there's strict of movements.

675

:

I honestly think, and this

is going back to Estonia.

676

:

It's how we use space.

677

:

If we could use space better.

678

:

If we had the structures, we

have the systems to be able

679

:

to use that space better.

680

:

If we didn't have all these

unnecessary knotty complications

681

:

within our system to restrict us.

682

:

We would have a really good

system, a good 21st century.

683

:

System.

684

:

However, as I say, I can understand

how it's irked at teachers who

685

:

do try to shoe horn 21st century

methodologies into these systems.

686

:

And they are doing very well despite

the structure, but it is the structures.

687

:

I think that need to change.

688

:

And I guess that's what I would do

if I were the minister for education.

689

:

Just a reminder, before we finish up,

don't forget if you've enjoyed this.

690

:

Please subscribe to the

anseo.net newsletter, which

691

:

you can find on anseo.net.

692

:

Slash subscribe.

693

:

And you will find every two

weeks, write it to your inbox.

694

:

You'll be reminded of relations, podcast,

episode, some other news stories.

695

:

Add that.

696

:

Meeting having capturing my

imagination on some of those.

697

:

Or up there?

698

:

I don't know.

699

:

I don't really discuss them on

the podcast because I just don't

700

:

have space to be here all day.

701

:

But I'll be talking about a lot of those.

702

:

In bite sizes.

703

:

I also scour my Twitter, my ax to

find some really good tweets and

704

:

add a little threads that have come

out that have been very interesting.

705

:

And as I said, I have a little

bit of CPD for anyone wants it.

706

:

This is a 16 minute video on how to

use AI to create a unit of work, to

707

:

make a chapter of a school textbook.

708

:

And if you subscribe, I'll be

sending you out a template.

709

:

With loads of prompts to create

that chapter of a textbook.

710

:

I know, I hope you enjoyed this

episode of if I were the minister for

711

:

education, I'll be back in a couple

of weeks time with some more news.

712

:

I, no doubt about the Congress,

which would have been and gone

713

:

and whatever else comes from that.

714

:

And I thanks so much for

listening or watching.

715

:

And if, as I said, please feel free

to subscribe or review this podcast

716

:

on what your favorite platform.

717

:

And until next time, see it

add all the best bye-bye.

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