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The Loving-Kindness Of G-D with Mark Stouffer (Ep 66)
Episode 666th June 2024 • My Ministry Mission • Jason McConnell
00:00:00 00:41:55

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Mark Stouffer has endeavored to write a series of books describing the foreshadowing of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament … but there’s a catch, these books are intended to educate the Jewish community, and we have the privilege of hearing some this amazing message directly from this talented author.

Mark Stouffer's Links:

  • Mark Stouffer's Twitter
  • Hesed, Book - The L-rd’s lovingkindnesses (ḥesed) indeed never cease, for His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness. “The L-rd is my portion,” says my soul, “therefore, I have hope in Him.” The L-rd is good to those who wait for Him, to the person who seeks Him.

References to Bible Verses:

Romans 5:8; John 5:39

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Transcripts

Jason: Welcome, and thank you for joining me. My name is Jason, and I am your host. If you've studied the Bible, you probably already know that the Old Testament speaks of the prophecy of Jesus Christ. God tells the Israelites that someone is coming who will be a prophet like Moses. He will rebuild the house of David and rule as a king and priest. He will be the suffering servant of the Lord on whom our sins will be laid.

Today, I have an exciting guest who I feel is a kindred spirit of sorts. Mark Stouffer has endeavored to write a series of describing the foreshadowing of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. But there's a catch. These books are intended to educate the Jewish community, and we have the privilege of hearing some of this amazing message directly from this talented author.

Check out his book by going to https://lovingkindnessofadonai.com. That's https://lovingkindnessofadonai.com. You can also find all of the important links to Mark's works and social media and whatnot in the show notes. So be sure to check them out. Let's get started with Mark.

So welcome Mark. And thank you so much for joining us and gifting me with your time today.

Mark: Oh thank you. I'm very glad to be here.

Jason: All right, first thing is first, is there anything from the intro you want to add on or change? You know, correct? Did I say everything right?

Mark: Yeah. No, that's all fine.

Jason: All right, good. So you put Romans 5:8 as your favorite Bible verse, and it reads, "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." and that's kind of one of my favorites too, but how is this verse significant to you?

Mark: Okay. Well, I'll tell you for my faith and for everybody, there's a lot of things that we'll never fully understand in this life. And like the philosophical question, if God is all powerful and all loving, then why is there evil? And no one can perfectly answer that. And why do bad things happen to good people? Why is there such tremendous evil in the world? And it causes us to doubt God to some degree. It launches a hit on our faith. And this verse, I think, is very intentional by God and such a blessing because, like, I feel like God is saying, I understand that there's things that are confusing but, I'm going to give you this.

And so he's saying, Jesus came down from heaven and chose to undergo a horrific death to pay the price of justice in our place. So that actually happened. And so as a result of that we're going to heaven. So, so in other words, I don't understand some things. I don't understand the evil in the world.

I don't understand cancer. I do intellectually, but it's so awful, and so, so big, it's hard to wrap my head around it, and why does God allow this, you know, and so on. But I understand this, Jesus, He came down and paid for my sins, and at tremendous cost. And so, His actions prove, and that word in your version you read, it shows, and that is often translated, demonstrated, sometimes proves, this.

What he did proves God is good. So I can be confused a lot of, about a lot of things, but actions speak louder than words. And Jesus's actions prove his goodness and you know, and, and help me deal with anything that is an attack on my faith or an attack against my faith. God. So I don't know if I explained that well, but that's, that's the reason.

Jason: That's, that's good. It's all good stuff. You grew up in Cleveland and you describe yourself as, and I'm going to quote your website and whatnot, just an ordinary person or a lay person, but you've been involved in ministry for the last 40 years or so, which I find to be anything but just ordinary. I find that to be extraordinary, but would you mind telling us briefly about your background?

Mark: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I grew up in the suburb, right? And middle class nice family. My parents remained married and so on. And I have a brother, good, good person. And I was in boy Scouts. I played sports. I got good grades, you know? And so. Never got in trouble. And so that was kind of my life and I'm good at math.

And so I went into engineering school because that's a good career and I could do it and so on and came down from Cleveland to Columbus to go to Ohio State. And you know, it was at that time that guy kind of, I could feel him talking on my heart saying, I'm here, Mark, what are you going to do? You know, time to deal with me.

And I, I closed the door to him and I said, no, I'm too busy now. And, and then after college, I had a lot of free time and he came to me and he called my bluff because I didn't, I was unemployed and I was broke and, you know, and I didn't, I didn't have any money to do anything and I didn't have any work to go to and he came to me very strongly at that point.

So what I came to realize is that even though I was kind of the all American boy I really needed to have my sins forgiven and You know Selfish for sure. I have a hot temper. Arrogant, Not kind towards others, you know and all these things and I realized no my sins are great And so anyway, but I I went to church.

I started to hear the bible and I received Jesus as my savior which I needed so much and so very much like you, Jason, my understanding about your path, the church I went to is very good and there are home churches where you get in real close friendships with fellow Christians and your lives and help each other.

You know, so it's not just like a once a week thing and you really don't know people, but get very involved and it's a way for God to speak for others to you and to encourage you and so on. So very good fellowship and also ministry opportunities. From, routine things of having a position at the snack bar, and during church and then also teaching small groups, learning the Bible and teaching and leading small groups, home group.

And I've been a home church leader for I don't know, 30 some years. And we try evangelism and spread the word about Jesus and then also to grow, teach the Bible and disciple. So I've been leading, along with a few other people, a group of like 20 fluctuates up and down for 30 some years. Also You know, just been blessed by God.

I was involved in international student ministries for nine years, which was so wonderful. At Ohio State, in the one campus, there's over 50,000 students, which is amazing, you know, not counting the branch campuses. And there are many international students and in fact, there are 5,000 Chinese students, and a lot of people come and they don't know anybody and there's a wonderful ministry, IFI, International Friendships Incorporated.

It's a hospitality ministry that welcomes them and gives them friendship in many different avenues and, and teaches the Bible. And so Chinese people don't know anything about Jesus. They don't know anything. They maybe have heard of him, maybe not even have heard of him. And they're glad to hear who he is, you know, and so it's just a wonderful way to share your faith and a number of them come to faith and there's some indian students and some students from africa as well but mostly chinese just because of the number of them.

So I was involved in that for nine years And other things too, but those are the two biggest ones so i've always just enjoyed reading the bible You know, like some like prayer doesn't come easy to me in my flesh. Sometimes. Oh, I think I should pray and I'm like, oh, I'll do that later.

And I'm not the great, but I'm not the greatest prayer, but. With reading the Bible, it was always easy for me to, like, yes, I'll open that, you know. And and read other books, spiritual books written by Christian authors, and all kinds of stuff like that. And and I just felt like I wanted to write something about five years ago.

And God just totally blessed me and called me, and we can talk about that more, but called me to write these books, I believe, to the Jewish people. I believe now's his time to, to reach them with the gospel, to bring them back. And and I get to play a part of that. You know, he has a lot of ways, I get to be one of those boys I feel like with these books.

So anyway, that's kind of my, my history, my Christian history.

Jason: It's good. It sounds like you've done a lot of work. Moving to the next topic of you all moving into the book, if it's okay, I'd like to read the dedication in your first book.

Mark: Yeah, that's fine.

Jason: I'm going to read the dedication that we can kind of chat about that.

Cause I think that's a really good dedication. It reads. "This book is dedicated to the Jewish people who have suffered so much for so long, yet you are decent and you try your best to follow God's law." You explain your motivation to write these books in the preface of the first volume. I haven't read the second one yet, but the first one for sure. Would you mind telling the listeners kind of about your story?

Mark: Yeah. So I kind of say some of the things I already said. I'm a lay person. I've never been to seminary, but I've read a lot and I, you know, I just feel like God is so good. It's great to go to seminary, but you can read it on your own too and God will bless your study I feel like he's blessed mine and it was really the middle of the night I was actually wanting to write a book to muslim people and that's that's long story of why but I have dealings with that in my life with muslim people But that wasn't god's plan and I think his plan was to be on his Jewish team He's apparently got the people in place on the muslim team, but Anyway so I got up one night all these thoughts was a whole chapter and I really like it that chapter it's actually in the fourth volume, but And ever since then he just blessed my study And you know The holy spirit was with me and words were just lifting off the page of the bible as I read them I saw things that were there that i'd never seen before and As I was writing I just felt like a metaphor that illustrations were just Coming into my mind and and it was just a joyous experience.

I felt like I was doing it with God. And as I say, in the preface, there's a verse in John 5:39, where Jesus is debating with the Pharisees and and he says, and I quote. "You search the scripture because you think that in them, you have eternal life and it is these that bear witness of me." End quote, and so, he's talking about the old what we call the Old Testament.

And he's saying it's about me, you know, those guys study the Bible a lot and he's like that's about me And he says you're looking for eternal life. He's like, well, you're right, but it's through me. It's you know, and so in the That's kind of how the books came to be And so every and that's the thesis of the book is John 5:39 the four four books is that I'm going to examine the Old Testament and test Jesus statement.

Does it speak, does it really predict Him and speak about Him and personally and His mission to die for the sins of mankind? So that's the thesis for these four books, which I'm writing to Jewish people. And in this opening statement to them, I, you know, I say, I'm dedicating this to you. And one of the things, and I've read some new books about Jewish history and, and so on, Jewish theology of Judaism.

uch they suffered in the last:

And so I, in this dedication, I say you so much. And yet. You're decent, you know, they didn't lash back and are bitter. They're moving forward. They're they're making a positive Impact on the world and they're you know, they've they're letting it go they're just doing their best to be the people of God and And and one of the things they do is they focus on the law and they're trying to follow it They're trying to follow God's law And yes you know, that's a big subject that Jesus argued with the Pharisees about, that they went overboard.

Yeah, that's true, but that's not what I see the Jewish people doing today in modern history. I see them trying to obey God. and live the lives they think he's calling them to live in. And, and to a very large degree is, you know, to observe the Sabbath and follow all the Ten Commandments and all the laws. And I just think they're very good people and what the dedication's about.

Jason: That's good. So when you write the word God or Lord in your book, you put a dash where the O normally sits. I understand that's out of respect to the Jewish faith, to the Jewish customs, but Would you mind explaining that a little bit more? Is there more to that?

Mark: Yeah, I mean, that's basically it. Not all Jewish authors, but a lot of them do that. So they will write G hyphen D instead of G O D. And Basically, they have such reverence for God that they don't even want to write G. O. D. So that's where that comes from. It's just, you know, it's not biblical, but it's just a custom to show respect.

And so I do that, you know, to show them respect. I'm like, that's fine. I'll be glad to write it that way. It's kind of like, if you go into a synagogue and they ask you to put on a yarmulke, you know, and they have, yarmulkes, there for visitors. You would just gladly do that. So I'm just showing respect.

Jason: I like it. I actually own both of your books. I actually own 2 copies of both of your books, 1 hard copy and 1 Kindle. So, and I'm working my way through the 1st one. I'm almost done with the 1st one. But at the beginning of it, in the introduction, I believe, of Hesed, you explain that there are five elements in the Hebrew Bible or the Tanakh that have, that appears to forecast Jesus. My Hebrew is terrible. So feel free to correct me anytime you want. Do you, I mean, can you summarize those for the listeners? Do you have those in front of you?

Mark: Yeah, I do. So. Yeah, that's that's a great question. The first one is sacrificial atonement. So that's a big part of Judaism prescribed by God in the in the first five books of the Old Testament, and their religion is sacrificial atonement.

There were sacrifices daily and yearly, and some of them for different things, but some of them for atonement for sin. And so as we know in the book of Hebrews the writer says that bulls, the blood of bulls and goats, I think he said that could never take away sins. But that's what they were doing.

And it's just intuitive. If I say terrible things to my wife, for example, killing an animal, how does that pay for that? Right? Just kind of, no, it doesn't. And yet, there was this elaborate sacrificial system, and so, I believe pointing to Jesus, the real sacrifice, it would take a human to die in place of a human, not a one year old lamb.

Anyway, so, I, I go through that and I look at the connection between the sacrificial system, the connections between those rituals, and then what Jesus did on the day of the crucifixion.

Then the second thing is a series of biblical heroes whose lives appear to have foreshadowed Jesus life. There were striking similarities between their lives and Jesus life. And we call them types, so Christian students of the Bible will say, oh, types they were typical of Jesus. And I just go through a number of them, which I, I think is very compelling. I mean, it appears to be very clear foreshadowing.

Real quick for example, Daniel, it's one of my favorite books is Daniel, yet in the 6th chapter, there's a departure from the rest of the book, and Daniel is, thrown in a lions den, because these other, other rulers You know, there were like a hundred and some of them and they picked three top ones to rule the hundred and some And I don't know how to pronounce the word sad traps or say traps and Daniel was picked and they were jealous of him and They concocted a plan that forced the hand of the king who liked Daniel to execute him And he was thrown in a lion's den and then they rolled the boulder over the opening And the king put a seal on it and then the king actually knew Daniel and Loved him and had heard of Daniel's God and and Daniel's great faith And the next morning he went there and he's like Daniel.

Are you alive? Could it be and Daniel was and they pulled the stone away and they took him out. That's just so Parallel to Jesus's resurrection. He was placed in a tomb you know a cave And The tomb and they roll the boulder over it and they put an official seal of the governor, over that, that no one could break that seal.

And now Jesus was dead, but he came out alive when he resurrected and in his case, it wasn't the next morning, but it was 3 days later. Mary and John and Peter went there just to see what was happening and the boulder was rolled away. So, if you actually read those verses. In the gospels and read the chapter six and Daniel you'll be like, oh my gosh, it's totally Foreshadowing that and and there's other stories, and they're in Daniel 6 too with Jesus the pharisees were mad at him and Also jealous of him because the nation was for omg, so it was that similarity too But you know, I also go into Moses's life and Joseph's life and some other people.

So that's the second one and And the third one is prophecy. So, a lot, there's a lot of prophecy in the Old Testament. Maybe a couple hundred chapters. I mean, it's a lot. And the biggest subject, I think, there's a number of subjects, maybe not the biggest subject, but one of the biggest subjects is Messianic prophecy.

And so I go through that. That's the subject of the second book. This third book, so it's gonna cover God's plan for history. God has a plan for humanity that he's carrying out through history. And so very simply, in the Garden of Eden they rebelled. Adam and Eve rebelled and they fell. And man was expelled from paradise and from God's presence.

e way through history and for:

So what I say, what I'm going to examine in this, the third book is. What's the role of the Messiah in his plan, you know as it's spelled out in in the old testament we're going to see what does Jesus Match this Messiah, but so that's the fourth element. The fifth element is a literary review of the old testament examining it as a piece of literature and that's fascinating to me, you know in the first, 11 chapter of Genesis God creates and he creates man You And man falls and gets kicked out of the garden of Eden and God kicks off this plan and he, he addresses that in his conversation with Eve, especially.

And then crazy stuff happens with the 1st, son Cain kills his younger brother Abel and sin spirals out of control, we get Noah's Ark and. All this stuff happens, more things than that, and then in the 12th chapter, we meet Abraham, who's called Abram at that point. And from chapter 12 to the end of the book of Malachi, which is 99, I don't know, probably 99 percent of the Old Testament.

It's all about God working with the Jews. So God has this plan and all these problems come up. You know, it's just like any piece of literature. There's plot lines are open at the beginning of the book, right? And then in the rest of the book you know, characters work and fight to resolve them.

And then you have a climax at the end of the book. Well, so you have that in the Old Testament. All these plot lines are open. And one of the, maybe the greatest one that Satan casts aspersions against God, which is what leads Eve to bite, bite into the apple and you know, he's against God's goodness.

And so this is a huge plot line that's open. So, so when we get to Malachi, which was in fact the last book that was written about 400 years before Christ, God's still working with the Jews and how's it going? Well, in chapter 2, verse 4. God says to Malachi, tell the priests that I'm going to rub vomit on their faces.

He's so upset with the way the priests were leading the people that he says this, it's just scandalous, it's just shocking. And so here we are after, well at that point, 1,600 years of Jewish history. And basically no progress has been made on any of the plotlines. So there's no climax in the Old Testament.

2,000 years and the Jews are still not getting it, still not representing God well, struggling spiritually. And, God's plan hasn't been fulfilled. He hasn't rescued mankind. The Messiah hasn't come, hasn't done that. His name is still not cleared from the accusations that Satan made against it. And it seems like he hasn't made any progress with the Jewish people.

So

Jason: if it were a movie, it would be to be continued

Mark: at the

Jason: end of

Mark: Malachi. Exactly. Well, that's my point is there must be another book. And then I asked the question, could the New Testament be that book? How good are its answers to those plot lines that were open in the first? 11 chapters of Genesis. So that's the argument I make.

Jason: Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting. I was thinking of something while you were, while you were explaining that, you know, my, my mom has gone into kind of a deep dive of Old Testament, New Testament. She's doing this Bible study that takes her from one day to the other. Right. And one of the things she did, she called me up and she was talking about the Old Testament and I forget what book she was in.

But she, she made the comment, she goes, you know, I'm reading the stuff and I realize, we still haven't changed that blew my mind. It's like, we really haven't like as a, as a collective, as a people, as a species from way back and even in judges or before, we're still the same broken things.

Mark: Yeah. Technology's changed, but we really haven't changed.

Jason: Yeah. But that, that kind of leads me to Another point is here that you have a very unique way of drawing out some interesting details in the book. It's very detail oriented, but it's very unique. I mean, for example, towards the end of chapter 1 in the first book, you mention, "Nowhere do we read that the masses took pause and prayed for God to show them His will regarding Jesus." And that blew my mind. I'm like, I would have never thought of that. So, you know, the question there's a question here. How do you dig into those details? Like, how does it just come to you as you're as you're reading through it? Or how does this manifest itself when you're when you're working through it?

Mark: Yeah, it comes to me as I'm reading. I will say it's very important. This is, you know, maybe everyone already knows this, but it's, it is my experience. Very important to pray before you read the Bible. And I think that God is delighted by that and he's like, okay, you want to understand this? I'll show you, you know, and so one of the things here in this 1st book is I was reading the Old Testament passages.

Things jump out at me. And you're talking about the New Testament there, but things jump out at me and I'm like, like, real quick example. So in the story of Abraham and Isaac, you know, so God says you know, take Isaac up and sacrifice him. Right? And so he, he does it and we all know, well, I built his faith and it tested his faith, but I, so the question that came to me is, well, but why?

Why? You know, I understand that that was a result and a good thing, but in the end he stopped it and he didn't take Abraham's or Isaac's life, but why? Why was he doing that?

Jason: You know, I, when I was reading that, that part of that chapter of the book, something dawned on me and this could be way out in left field, but is it possible God also did this to drive home the consequence of sin and the importance of the blood sacrifice to, to kind of juxtapose that against what Christ did all those years later?

Mark: Well, you know, I think that's really good, Jason. I hadn't thought of that, but yes, I agree with it. That's really good.

Jason: Cause it is such an odd story. It's like, here's this miraculous child that's going to populate the world. And then all of a sudden it's like, let's take him up to the mountain and sacrifice him. And anybody who's read that, what's going on?

Mark: Yeah, jolts you and it's solemn. It's serious, you know, if someone's going to get a knife thrust through their heart and, and die, why, you know, with a past over On the final night, he said, well, you guys need to kill these lambs and spread the blood around your doorframes, or your, or your son will die too, along with the Egyptians.

So, I asked the question, and again, I think the Holy Spirit brought it to me, well, why? They, they cried out to God because they were oppressed for however many hundred years, and it was awful, and they cried out to God, and he was going to deliver them. But why did they need to do that? Why would why would their sons be killed because they were the victims of Slavery and a very bad historical case of slavery too.

Yeah Some lighter one, just because it was so long ago. No, no, no. The Egyptians were killing their babies, throwing them in the Nile. They were whipping the workers and so on. So, so bad, they were groaning, it says, and they cried out to God. Why did they need to, to do that? And so it's, it doesn't make sense.

I like to use the word incongruous. Why are there elements we see in these stories that you say, well, why is that? Well, it's because God is trying to teach us a lesson. And I think the ultimate lesson is that we need, what you said, sin is serious. And even the Jews, even though they didn't commit slavery, even though they were the slaves, they still committed sin and it's serious. And they needed, they needed atonement. They needed a lamb to die for them too. Ultimately the Passover, the real Passover lamb, Jesus, but

Jason: Yeah.

Mark: Yeah.

Jason: So another really great point you made in chapter seven, where you were discussing the tabernacle furnishings, you explain, and I'm going to quote, "The reason for God's rigidity in this case was because God was prescribing the process. By which man may approach him" end quote, and that never dawned on me to look at it that way. And you're right. It's, God is saying I'm putting this here for you so that I can be close to you or you can be close to me. This is how you have to do it. Right?

Mark: Yeah.

Yeah. You have to approach God his way. It is so he's righteous. And this is a thing we'll never really be able to grasp on this earth because none of us are righteous. What, you know, we understand it conceptually, but what is it really like? I don't know. I mean, us sinners cannot be in His presence. And you know, we don't fully understand that, but we kind of do.

But He's trying to communicate, again, how serious our sin is. It's a huge thing. It prevents us from coming into His presence now or for eternity. Either we pay the price, or, you know, Jesus does. And we accept that . And so he was with them in the tabernacle, but they could not go into the part where he was, you know, they couldn't because their sins were not paid for.

Jason: Yeah, and you made it very clear. There's a separate because you mentioned there's there's what three doors and the veil.

Mark: Well, that's the 3rd door. Yeah.

Jason: Okay. The 3rd door. Yeah. 2 doors and a veil. So, I mean, God's like, I'm here, but I'm over here and you guys, you're not, you're not coming here for a minute.

Mark: Yeah, no, no, you know, and it is interesting to me and you could go in the you know, through the 1st door into the tent of meeting. See, it's called the tent of meeting, but no one was meeting God. Moses did, but after that, no one did. Some of the priests could go through the second door, but not until they washed their hands in the bronze labor.

And it said, if you don't do that, you will die. And again, it's all, it's shocking. It's shocking. It's getting your attention. Like what's going on here? And they would have died, but no one did. No one tested that because the bronze labor was on the way to the door. And it wasn't hard to wash your hands there.

So you just did it. And then there was no worry. Right. And then, but then only the high priest could go through that veil. And only once a year. And only for a brief moment to sprinkle blood on the ark of the covenant and then he had to get out

Jason: Yeah, he had to book it out

Mark: Yeah Which is I mean the word that comes to my mind is unceremonious I mean And and that was tried by people to go in there. And I won't go into that story But and they did die on the spot. So God's very strongly communicating. You cannot you cannot be in here

Jason: Yeah. And he was very clear about a lot of things. I mean, there was, and you don't have to forgive me. I don't remember where, chapter and verse and whatnot, but there's a, there's a scenario where the ark is being brought back and it starts to kind of tumble and tilt and the Israelites try to catch it and they die.

Mark: Yeah.

Jason: And it's like, you know, you, you, you just have to trust that God's not going to let his ark of the covenant fall to the ground and they didn't and they died. And, I mean, it's harsh, but Well,

Mark: yeah. It was one guy. It was one guy and his name was Uzzah.

Jason: Yeah, thank you.

Mark: And you read that and I just have read that recently.

I wouldn't normally know his name, but well done. You read that and you know, it just tears your heart like the poor guy was trying to prevent it from falling on the ground. And you're like, why, you know, it's hard to understand. And now the one thing that's good to keep in mind is he died instantaneously.

So he never suffered, right? He lost his life. The value in that is he sent a message to people about the same point how serious this is and that In the old testament, they could not even touch it, you know God is so separate and righteous and we're not fit to do that So, and and it's not recorded that anyone ever did that again.

There's some more to that story it's in the law only priests were to move the ark and he was not Mm hmm And they were only to do it using poles, these poles that they had, and then the other thing is, believe it or not, there's actually one of the laws in the Old Testament is that the ark could not be transported on a cart.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And this was the priest's job, was to know these things. There were certain priests, their job was to move it. And David was all excited, and he, you know, they just made, for the first time ever, Jerusalem, the capital. And he's like, oh man, let's get the, and he loved God, and he's like, let's get the ark and bring it to Jerusalem.

But the priest should have said, okay, that's fine, but we have to do it God's way. And it's going to take a little while, but we'll get it there. But we have to carry it poles and, and another law, no one touch it, you know, and they need to be very careful. And instead they put it on a cart and they had the guys that weren't priests, you know, going in front of the cart and it happened. And so it was kind of, it's kind of their fault. And, but it's very sad.

Jason: Yeah.

Mark: Anyway, I think it's helpful to know the full story.

Jason: Yeah. No, that's, that is helpful. So you're, I mean, you're writing, we mentioned you're writing these books primarily for the Jewish people. I think everyone will benefit from them. In fact, I am getting a copy for my mom, but I am curious, have you received feedback from the Jewish community about the books thus far?

Mark: Yeah, I have not, but I had a launch team of like 44 people for the first book. And I asked them to pray. I asked them to write a review and I asked them to pray and see if God would put it on their heart for there to be someone to give it to.

And a number of them gave it to Jewish people. And, but I don't know, I don't know how it was received, you know, if they read it or what they thought. I don't know. I'm very excited that I, I know that a number of books found their way into Jewish hands.

Jason: That's good. That's good. No, I, I mean, you know, we, we see this and I don't want to call it a divide bifurcation.

Maybe we see the separation between Christians and Jew, but the truth is we both have the same God, whether you believe in Christ or whether you, you don't from a Jewish perspective, we both have God in common. And, and I kind of feel like we need to be more of a combined, united community. than ever before. Yeah. You know, we have our, we have our, you know, you get to heaven by going through Christ and, and that's okay. We can share that with the Jewish people and they have, their ways. But overall, I just go back to, we have the same God and that's, I think is enough for fellowship. I don't know your thoughts on that.

rch has been to the Jews over:

And they know their history and how mistreated they were by secular, the Germans and, you know, others throughout history and by Christian, and they know it. And so it's a little bit harder for them to want Kumbaya with us. You know . We do worship the same God and things are changing and, especially evangelical Christians.

And maybe other denominations, too. I don't want to just say evangelicals. In America, it's, I think, it's my opinion, are, love Israel, love the Jews, and are the biggest supporters of them in America. Not any particular political party. It's the Christians. And then, and I think in Israel, I think they know that.

I think they know that, and they're like, yeah, they know history, but they also know today. And today things are different, and so I have hope that it can be like you described.

Jason: That'd be nice. Well, it'd be nice if the whole world were like that, but we'll take it one step at a time. Yeah. Oh, you know, Mark, I really wish I could go chapter by chapter with you. But I think this is a good place to wrap it up. Do you have any parting words, any last comments for the listeners?

Mark: Yeah, I do have one thought. I wanted to say that God is so good to me, so patient, so gracious, so provided me with such wonderful blessings and roles In ministry, and I just wanted to say to everyone that your listeners that he has that for you, too I am a layman and if you're a layman like me, you know He's got a real role for you.

It's going to bear spiritual fruit lasting eternal fruit And so I just wanted to encourage people that God is good. He's watching you right now watching me He's watching you and if you hear his voice calling you to do You I don't know what say if you hear him say yes and do it and he's going to lead you and, you know, that's, that's, that's what I'd like to say.

Jason: That's good advice. We appreciate that. So, thank you again for sharing your wisdom with us today. This has been extremely insightful for me. Your books are very well written. I recommend them to everyone. I may be you. Even getting more copies. We'll see. I don't know anyone who's Jewish to give to, but if I find someone, I will give them a copy.

Mark: Thank you so much.

Jason: All right. Well, thank you for listening. Be sure to check back out on the links on the show notes to get Mark's book, his social media, whatever's out there. These books are very well researched, very well written, and I guarantee you, you will walk away with a better understanding of the Bible.

Take a moment to like, subscribe, or follow me on your favorite app. Check out my links in the show notes as well. I've got my social media, you can send me feedback, sign up to get email updates, whatever. If you are enjoying the show, please consider supporting it at https://myministrymission.com/support.

If you can't afford a tip, that's fine. Just go there for some ideas to share the podcast with your friends, family, stranger on the street. I don't care. Help me get Mark's message out there. But until next time, be sure to read your Bibles, love your neighbor, and may the Lord bless you and keep you. God bless everyone.

And God bless you, Mark.

Mark: You too.

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