In this episode, we dive deep into understanding the psychological triggers that empower potential clients to confidently take action. Wendy Vaughan, a successful business coach and sales expert, shares her journey from struggling to attract clients to becoming a top revenue generator and launching her own thriving business. We explore how Wendy's framework for personal connection, trust, belief, and authentic desire can lead to predictable sales results.

Guest Bio:

Wendy Vaughn is a business coach and sales expert who has successfully transitioned from a high-paying corporate job to running her own business. Her four-part formula for sales success has empowered countless solopreneurs to authentically connect with potential clients and achieve predictable sales results.

Key Points Discussed:

- Personal connection as a foundation for sales (00:45)

- Overcoming the struggle of selling authentically (09:23)

- The four psychological states crucial for potential clients (15:10)

- Wendy's transition from struggling to thriving in business (24:50)

- The power of embracing strengths and collaboration (32:15)

Main Quote by the Guest:

"Authenticity in sales is not just about selling; it's about empowering both parties to take the best next step."

Guest's Website:

Visit Wendy Vaughn's website at PredictableSalesResults.com to connect with her and learn more about her transformative approach to sales and business coaching.

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Please leave us a review and subscribe to the show to be notified of future episodes.

Until next time, keep moving forward!

Chuck Anderson,

Affiliate Management Expert + Investor + Mentor

http://AffiliateManagementExpert.com/

Hello, everybody, and, welcome back to the Creative

Collaboration Show. Chuck Anderson here, and I'm your host. And,

today, we have a special episode for you, especially,

anyone who is in is part of

your journey with your business is looking for,

you know, how to grow your business, and a big part of that

is sales and marketing. And I always like to bring in guests

who can help with that and have their own perspective and

and and the ways that, they can,

help. And today, I am joined by Wendy Vaughn,

who is a dedicated and compassionate advocate for those who

have the courage to venture out and start their own

business. And that really describes all of us, and, she

is a business coach as well as a sales and

marketing coach who has supported over 200

solopreneurs to gain skills, knowledge, clarity, and confidence

around the fine art of building a passion driven business.

And, Wendy, I I mentioned at the beginning of this, I love that

phrase, passion driven business. I think that really

describes who I love to work with and who we tend to attract.

So so thank you for that, and, welcome to the show. Yeah.

Thank you so much, Chuck. I'm super excited to be here and

contribute to your audience and, just bring some value. I

I love the work that you do as well, so thank you so much.

Fantastic. Well, and I and I let you know, we're kinda getting to know

each other more. And and and the more that we do, we realize that we

serve a lot of the same types of businesses, but in very

complementary ways. And and, you know, that's something that I

always encourage our listeners to to to, you

know, view others in their industry,

you know, as someone who you could collaborate

with, someone you could get to know, about. And at that

surface level, we go, oh, you're a business consultant. I'm a business consultant, so,

therefore, we're the same. Not a

chance. Not a chance. Are we the same? But

complementary, yeah, complimentary. Yes. And I

love that attitude, and that's something where you and I clicked instantly.

And and so it's really it's really cool to get to know, more about

you. And, well, speaking about that, let's let's let's have you

tell a little bit more of your story and your background to our audience so

that they can get to know you as well. Absolutely. Yeah. I always

love sharing my story because it's it's the typical kind of, you

know, struggling and hanging on by the bootstraps, you know, and pulling

yourself up. And there's the eureka and all this. But in my version

so I started out with a dream of being a

professional symphony player. Wow. Music was

my deal from early on. 4th grade, I knew

when I played that, I think it was Reveille or

something at summer camp. This is this is my jam.

So I started on that career path at an early age and got my

master's degree in trumpet performance and went

out to secure my wonderful position in a

symphony orchestra and realized that I knew nothing about

winning auditions. A really important

part, right, of launching that career.

So it wasn't too much longer that I realized, you know what? This is not

gonna be an easy fix because I I actually didn't know

there was such a thing as, like, belief

shifting or empowerment coaches

or peak performance coaches, those kinds

of things. So I I had no idea. Nobody

around me had any, you know offered any

support. So it became just kind of, alright. Exit

strategy, plan b. And, I love

music, so I started, started my own business, a

music booking agency providing music for weddings. And And

it was in Scottsdale, Arizona, which means there's weddings year round. Right? 9

months out of the year. Basically, every month except for June

July. And so with 0

business skills, 0 sales skills, basically

a socially awkward classical music

nerd, I started my business.

And thought, well, how hard could it be? I mean, I'm an

expert, right, in music. I'm the expert. I know

all these people in town that are really great musicians. So

how hard could it be? Well, as most all

entrepreneurs soon find out, it's kinda hard. It's

difficult to get clients. It's not that easy. Like, hey. You want this?

Sure. Great. Sign up. Pay me. And they all lined up at the

door. Nope. Wasn't wasn't quite that scenario. Show,

for several months, I did nothing.

I wondered what I should be doing. And then I realized, oh, I need to

be getting my name out there. So one of the first things I did was

I bought a program from Jay Abraham,

marketing genius. Mhmm. And still, I

believe, is very much involved in

supporting people with marketing and and business development to this

day. But he completely revolutionized my whole

outlook on how to talk about the work that I do

in a way that brings in potential clients. So, okay, okay, problem solved.

I was now attracting potential clients in to have this conversation with

me, and

it wasn't that wasn't like the golden goose.

There wasn't any traction from that point forward. People would say, oh, yeah.

Thanks, Wendy. This sounds great. I'll get back to you. Of course, they never

did. Yeah. So at the you know, I started

reaching out and looking at at books on how to sell. And I was

like, oh my god. I could never do any of

that. I could never say that. That was not me. I there's no

way I could be that, like, you know, tell them this and

tell them that. And so I thought, gosh. I just don't

think this is gonna work for me. But in the back of my mind,

see, I'm very intuitive and analytical. Drives my

husband nuts. But I was

kind of figuring out, like, what people needed in order to

say yes to the offer. And I realized

it just really came down to 4 critical components in

order to support a potential client

to feel that confidence and clarity about saying, yeah. This sounds

great. And from

that, when that when I started integrating

those 4 critical components, I call them psychological

triggers, but not to get, you know, too heady on this because, trust

me, I'm not a psychologist, It was

like night and day. People just started saying yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Sounds great. Sounds great. Sounds great. Business started

skyrocketing. So I went from that that point of, like, oh

my god. This is way harder than I thought.

I think I'm gonna have to fold, you know, because

this isn't working and this is not me. What I'm learning does not

work for me. 2, just playing to my

strengths so I could still be me, you know,

that socially awkward kind of I've evolved a little bit. Right? But

back then, you know, I'm

not some bright, shiny, like, charismatic person.

And to be able to just flip the switch and have this

thriving business that is bringing so much

impact and making such a difference and

creating such a profound shift in my lifestyle,

I was just, like, in

heaven. And it was that moment and recounting

that. Of course, life has its way. Right? You know, a whole lot we don't

have long enough time for me to tell my whole story. Right? So

fast forward to then a

phase of my life where I was sitting in a

corporate role in sales,

building somebody else's dream, somebody else's castle.

And I kept having people come to me within my team and saying, Wendy,

how do you how do you get so many clients? How do

you do this? You're not even like like us. You know?

You're not like the sales team. Right? Because these were corporate

salespeople. Boom. And I would just always in the meetings,

I'd be you guys

do you. I'll do me. And I was the top revenue

generator within that corporation for 5 years straight.

And and I I I just kept supporting others and everything with the same four

part formula, and applied it at a different way. And I'm gonna share

you what those 4 four key components are.

And things just started waking up in my mind. It's like, you know

what? I would love to actually get back

into my own business, running my own business.

And that and and I'm realizing how much difference I can

make in that realm of of, you know, teaching people

how to get clients, teaching people how to be authentic and

show up and be effective. And at the same

time, we had we have 3 boys, my husband and I,

and the youngest was 16 years old, and he

was starting well, I was traveling quite a bit with my corporate role. And he

was starting my son was starting to get into

things that didn't align with my values.

And I'll just put it that way. It's not right or wrong. It's just that

my values were not supporting his decisions because I was gone so

much of the time. And,

so I decided to resign. I said bye

bye to a multiple 6 figure salary, all the

perks in the world. I was being sent to Cayman Islands, to

4 star resorts, you know, as little spiffs.

And I said, I'm out of here.

And everybody's like, what are you doing?

I'm starting my own business. Oh my god. Doing what?

A coach A sales coach. Oh my god.

That will never work. And it's

like way back in the beginning when everyone was saying, you're gonna

start a music agency? Oh my god. That'll never work.

You Show, same kind of thing. Here I am, you know, now

20 years, 22 years later with all this success with

sales. Oh my god. That'll never work. So so

I feel all the pain that

solopreneurs have that entrepreneurs have when

they they go through that ramp up phase.

And I love to bring to them that

that sense when the when the the the switch gets

flipped and everything just, like,

lines up. Mhmm. And they've got the knowledge, the skills,

and the confidence, and they're running in their track, and

they're making that impact and that income. So

that, for me, is why I do what I

do. I love so many aspects of that

story and, you know, we could go in so many directions with

it. Yeah. You know, both you know? A lot of a lot

of choices there. Exactly. But, you know, kind of like where

where where we kind of ended up here, you know, and just talking a little

bit about the solopreneurs and their journey is so

many of them are hearing that, oh, that'll never work, and why are

you doing that, and why don't you go get a job? And, you know, those

are all the things that I heard when I started my journey as well.

You know, it became self evident. You know, my friends and family

get it now, but, you know, it took 30 years for that

to occur. Right. But, you know, they're

hearing, that a lot. And I would say a

lot of what I hear from people is

is especially on that that whole idea of

selling authentically. You Show? You you and not

all sales trainings are are created equally. You Show? If you go

to, you know, some of the old school sales training, it's, you

know, always be closing and and and and all of that kind

of stuff. And, I can really relate to to your

style. I had to kind of find my own style as well. What

are some of the things you're hearing from some of the solopreneurs that you're working

with in terms of what are they what are they saying about

sales? What do they believe about sales? What are they,

you know, either rejecting or feeling or believing or, you

know, like, where are they now? Like, before the before you work with them, and

then we'll kinda to, you know, your your advice for them, which is you have

the 4 parts there. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. No. For for

most heart centered solopreneurs, you

know, that that are really they're they're passion driven. Right?

They're not financially driven. They're not

entering into this with, alright. How much can I

charge? What's the net worth? What's the profit? You know, they're not that

type. There's nothing wrong with that type. Right?

That's more transactional selling. Right? I have a thing. It's

here's the wholesale. Here's the retail. Here's what the market renders. Here's how we

can position that blah blah blah blah blah. Well,

the people that then are really more in tune

with selling their knowledge, their wisdom, their transformation,

For them, their tendencies are that selling

is pushing or I'm forcing myself

on. I'm trying to, you know, get somebody to to

take action or I'm trying to and I oh my gosh. When they talk about

their fees, it just makes them for the most most part of people, you

know, I have I have no idea. You know? I I I just want everybody

to be able to afford to work with me. And so there's all that sort

of resistance around baggage that

has either been a past experience that they've had

personally, right, of somebody maybe in a car

showroom or or, you know, even over the phone. I

can remember one instance where I was talking to somebody about extended

car insurance or no. That warranty. Right? Extended

warranty. Mhmm. Oh my goodness.

This guy is just like I felt like I'd been through the

ringer after I hung up from this guy. And, of course, I just shoulda hung

up on him, but there's still that element out there where they just they

beat you up psychologically. And so a lot of people have been through

that, and that's their greatest fear is that, oh my god. I don't wanna be

that. And so just coming

into the whole, how do I get clients in a way

that I still like myself and I'm still who I

am and affect it? Because here's the thing, you know, if you give, give,

give, give, give, people will receive, receive, receive, receive.

You know? If you offer something at 4.97, they're not gonna say, oh, but

please, can't I pay you 14,097? You know?

They're not gonna say that. And so it it has to be

an inner game, you know, and and that's that's where

really reaching out and having the capacity

to know that, hey. I need an outside

expert to help with my inner work so that I can, first

off, own my value and then learn how to

effectively talk with potential clients in a way that empowers

me and supports them. Mhmm. I think that's the really

great news for our audience and and possibly music to

their ears. Not no pun intended, but, since your musical

background. But, you know, that you

don't have to be that person. You don't have to be that

that you know, we've all experienced that salesperson

that is like, oh. Yeah. I don't I

I I have gone through that kind of training.

Sadly did go down that path for a while.

Was good at it and hated every single moment of it.

Yeah. Like, it just made me feel

sick. And I'm like, I can't imagine myself

doing this for the rest of my career. There has to be

a better way. And when you really discover that, you

really don't have to. In fact, letting go you know, I

think, you know, from my experience, letting go of those

tactics, which tend to be a bit more on the manipulative

side and not so much on the authentic side.

Yeah. That my sales actually increased when I let go of

that, and I started doing it this other way. And you didn't have to,

in fact, selling without even feeling like you're

selling. And and so at at least that's how it felt for me.

So, yeah. Definitely. That's a it's a huge

shift when you do kind of make that connection. But like I said,

the caveat is is that most heart centered

coaches think it's just about giving, giving,

giving, and then they hope Mhmm. That the person is

gonna say, well, can I hire you? Or or what do you offer? Or

you Show? And the other Anderson gonna take that initiative. And there

usually is where things break down is that

the the reason the person needs the coach is

probably because they are lacking the

self belief or the self worth or, you know,

the confidence to invest in themselves. So there's usually that.

And I always link it to take off the sales

hat and put on your coach's hat.

If this person was already a coach already your client,

how would you be empowering them

to do something that's outside of their comfort zone? How would you

be empowering them? And so, when we

shift the mindset around that, that becomes the catalyst to

then rethinking the whole, quote, unquote,

marketing and sales Mhmm. Approach.

So let's talk a little bit about, what what are some of the steps

or, like, you've got your your, I think, your your 4

parts to, that you mentioned. And,

you know, so now that someone you know, for those who are

listening in going, okay. I get it. Yes. I'm one of those people. What do

I do? What do I do next? How do I approach this differently?

Yeah. Absolutely. I'm I'm super excited to share this. So this, again, was

what I discovered way back in the beginning,

you know, when things were becoming this kind of quicksand

feeling. But I'm I'm very intuitive and

an empath, and so I'm able to

connect with people's kind of emotions and where they are

in terms of their emotional journey. And so what I

discovered is that it's more of a it's a

framework. Right? I'm not into scripts per se or, you

know, tell them this and tell them that. It's a

framework that it it supports potential clients to

really understand the value as well as that this is the best next

step for them. And so it it it boils down to 4 different,

ingredients. 1 is to intentionally

in your marketing and or sales, I would I I call it every

client or potential client touch point, build that

personal connection.

In the old school sales book, that's

called Show Know, like, and trust. But Mhmm.

It's really deeper than that. It's not to know a per it's it's a personal

connection, especially in this day of digital, social

media, AI, you know, where I can get as a script

generated from AI just like that. I can create a sales page just like that.

I can, you know, create a course just like that. But all of that is

lacking that personal connection. So, anyway, that's

that's one psychological state that needs to

be activated. And, of course, there are lots of

different techniques for doing that. The second

psychological state is trust. Now interestingly,

it's trust both sides. It's trust in in the

expert, in the coach or business owner or

solopreneur, and it's also

trust in the potential client to make the decision.

That's a little bit of expert for for experts, extra for

experts, I should say, in in that move because it's not

mostly like, How do I activate trust within them? That's why

I said right at the beginning of this, you put on your coaching hat. It's

it's not complicated at all. Most of these things come down to some pretty easy

things to create these these to

activate these states. So there's personal connection, trust,

both in in you, the the expert and in within the

potential client. The third is belief.

And and this is you know, activating belief

is, I would say, one of

the bigger components if we were to put them all on a

scale here. It's

belief that, first off, the solopreneur

can deliver what they're saying they can, You know,

obviously, that they can deliver that outcome

or that they have, you know, the abilities, the skills,

all that. So there are certain things that obviously your credibility and

and certification and track record and years in business,

all those kinds of things things add up to that.

But it's also belief through your

potential client's mind that they can achieve the

outcome. So, again, this is

a little bit more nuanced. Right? So it goes beyond

just touting all the, you know, the certifications

and years of experience, but it's how do you transfer that

belief? Again, put on your coach's hat, and you'll figure that out.

But there are some very easy ways to do that. And the 4th, of course,

is desire, which most people think, well sales, right? They got to

want it. If you're gonna sell something, they have to want it. Yes.

That's true. But the thing that is really

important to know is that

and and this is where people kind of flounder back and

forth between force and and

more allowing or inviting in

this desire mode. Because when you start

projecting on somebody that they're gonna love something or that this is

amazing or that you are going to, well, then

that's force. That's that's like forcing my opinion on

you. Instead, desire is authentically

built when you position what

it is you're offering in a way that

includes words and the experience that

are already going on in your potential client's mind. And I'm sure

you've heard this many times before, but but for a lot of people, it's

tricky to understand really how to do that, especially in

marketing or blogs or, you know, sales pages, that kind of

thing. But it it's really a matter of alignment.

Choosing words that are already within your

potential client's thoughts naturally,

conversationally, around the outcomes

of what it is you're selling or offering. And, again, a lot of the

experts, this is another place that's a blind spot for them, is that they

are so excited about their process, their methodology, you

know, the the nuts and bolts and everything,

that that's where they land because that's where they see the biggest

value. But, actually, it's the outcome

of whatever your process or methodology or

approach is that is what your potential clients

want. So so those are the 4 elements. And

when you activate all 4 of those because you can't activate desire

without belief. Belief doesn't get activated without trust, and

trust does not get activated without a personal connection.

Show they all dovetail, but none stand

alone. So that's the magic.

It is magic. And it was so cool to hear you,

describe those and just tells me just how on the same page you and

I are because, especially that part about vocabulary.

And one of the things that, I think a lot of

coach just to echo something that you said here, I see a lot of coaches,

selling with the name of their program or

the name of their process. And I just went through this with one

that I'm helping to write a webinar right now, and and and

and we had this debate over what words to put on the page. And, of

course, we did a lot of research in term terms of who the

ideal audience is and all of that, and they really

felt passionate about using the name of

their process and all of the bullet points. And and and you have to ask

yourself, are these words that

my audience will understand? Are these words

that they use every day? Yeah. To even

value. And even value. Yes. Exactly. And we do

ourselves such a disservice sometimes by trying to describe what we

do Yeah. Versus describing

what our ideal client wants

and values and position ourselves as

someone who can help them to do more of that and

and and and whatever. And it's not about buying my program.

It's about me helping you get what you want. Exactly.

Exactly. Well said. Well said. Yeah. I love it.

Well, we we you know, I think we have to unpack that even more

and and definitely do some more work together, around that.

But but, of course, you know, in the in the context of a

podcast episode and keeping this, bite size for for people to

consume, I think that is just so valuable. I love what you just

shared. For people listening in and they wanna

connect with you and learn more, where where would be the best place to do

that? Well,

the best place to connect is through my website. Mhmm. I am on

social media, but my time is most

invested with my clients. And so that's the easiest place

to find me is, w w w, of course,

predictable sales results.com is the

website. Mhmm. And, you can

find the form there to reach out to me, and, I'd love

to carry the conversation forward. Yeah. And, well, to make it very

easy for you to connect with Wendy, we've put the link

to that just beneath this beneath this video. And if you're listening to

this on podcast, just check into the player, whether it be Apple Podcasts or

Spotify or whatever you're on, and the links are all in there as well. And

just go ahead and click that. That'll take you directly to Wendy's website. You can

connect with her, there. So, Wendy, this has

been, like, amazing, and I just, I

just love hearing you talk because I'm just, like, I'm like, yes. Someone

else who gets it. And and I'm just wondering, like, you know,

how, you know, how, you know, just to

impact even more coaches and more solopreneurs

to really realize this, and sales is such a big part of it.

And, so I love that this is what you do, because

I'm also I'm on the other side of it. I'm, like, finding those people to

talk to. Yeah. And you're like, well, here's what you say

when you talk to them, and it's and and and those 2

really go well together. So so I I I look forward to

exploring that. Before we bring this episode to

a close, I just have to ask you because I've been asking all my guests

about this, and, it, it's turned into a bit of a social

experiment for me because I just never know what the answer's gonna be. But so

much of, building a business and and growing a business is growing

ourselves as well. And, for myself, I've

I'm I'm a you know, probably the last 30

years, I invest every single month on buying

books and and and courses and stuff and always trying to learn more

myself. And I've got my favorite books, but I always ask our

guests if you have a favorite book or a must

read book. And then and I know it's an unfair question because there's

many, many, many, many My goodness. Yes. But if you were to recommend

but just to bring it down and keep it simple for our guests and give

them a single recommendation that they can take action on, what would

be a must read book that you would recommend that they read next?

Yeah. No. That's I love that question, Chuck, because it it

has been an a journey. Right? I started out as

the social I'm not kidding you. The socially awkward,

introverted classical music nerd, you know, with 0 business

knowledge, 0 sales skills, and,

you know, not to toot my horn or anything, but I've built multiple

6 figure businesses. I meant I'm on track for a 7 figure

year, and I've sat in the corporate role

being their top generator. So it's been an evolution.

It hasn't just happened because, oh, well, I'm gonna eat my Wheaties.

Oh, my goodness. In fact, before we moved to

Hawaii, we had to put things in in either, you know,

storage or get rid of them. So I had a library of

all these books, and everyone was like, oh my god. This takes me

back to Og Mandino and and, you know, Bob Procter

and and all these different phases of my

evolution. But when you ask that, what is one book? I

think the book that really had such an a

pivotal moment for me was

ask and it is given, and that's written by

Abraham Hicks. Now I don't know if you

know Esther Hicks. She's a channel. So this gets

a little woo, Chuck. I love it. Bring it bring on the

woo. So Esther Hicks is a

channel, and Abraham is the collective

that she channels. And so this book, Ask and It is Given,

was just oh my god. It just completely

rocked my world of how I thought things had to be toiled

and no pain, no gain. And, you know, you're

in it to win it and blood, sweat, and tears

to ease, flow, joy.

Which one do I want? I think I'll go over there.

That sounds much nicer than the no pain, no gain.

Right. So that was the the onramp into that

world of ease, flow, and joy.

I love that. You know, I've I've I've heard of that book so many times,

and I've read so many. That is not one that I have read,

and and so I can't even comment on it. But but I

also take this as a sign that it is the

next one for me to read, and and that has been a

very interesting subpart of this this this

podcast journey is asking the question

and then trusting the answer. And so so

that gets to go on my next read list. So so Right. So thank you.

Be sure to let me know how that ends for you. Yeah. Well, I'm looking

for the, the ease and the flow, and I'm just going to

allow. Yes. And and I'm going to allow it

because it's so easy to go. I want ease and I want Show.

Like, and I'm gonna manipulate everything around me in my world so that

it's easy. Damn it. That's not flow.

Right. And so it it is so easy. And

and, you know, when when we hear about manifestation, it's

like to try to force a manifestation. It's like, that's

not how it works. The universe doesn't do it on your timeline. Do

my vision board. Do my vision board. You know? Wait. Affirmations. Affirmate

Yeah. I've had this on my vision board for 3 years. Damn it. Where

is it? Yeah. I just love all of that.

So, Wendy, thank you so much for that recommendation. I'm gonna put the

links to that book, beneath the video and in the podcast show notes as well

for everyone else to check out. Show, this this has just

been a fantastic conversation, and and I I look for a forward

to us having, more conversations because I feel like

there's so so much more we can unpack. You know, that

Right. Back here with regard to actually

how to create that ease and flow in your business. And, Chuck, you are the

king of that, and we didn't get a really, like,

talk the synchronicities of how important it is to

Creative those alliances and systems to support the

expansion, because it's not just a solopreneur.

We when we collaborate and work at a bigger level

is when we truly find that ease and flow. So Well, that's

it's so true. I mean, I think, you know, winning in life and winning in

business is definitely a a, you know, a team team sport.

It's it's nobody really is self made. Nobody and and I know

for myself, I've I never really do anything myself

Anderson and especially not today. I mean, in in in my

twenties, I was just like, oh, yeah. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna build this

thing. And and today, I I try to listen.

I try to, say, well, here's where my strengths are.

Who could I meet, or who could I collaborate

with who is strong in some other area.

Mhmm. And it is so much easier when you do that. Oh my gosh.

Right? It's so much easier. Yeah. Yes. No

longer trying to become, you know, in you know, become stronger where I'm

weak. How about just embrace the gifts that you have? And everyone

else has their gifts, and how do we align those gifts to

to actually accomplish more together? Right? Yep.

Absolutely. Amen to that. That is Yeah. And and I think that's where,

you know, you and I really connected, and I think we you know, we'll

definitely have more conversations Alright. About that. So

so thank you so much, Wendy. Thank you to

our audience as well. And, I want this to mean

something for you. So I want you to take something that you heard Wendy and

I talk about today, and, and and I want you to

take action today. Take a step towards whatever it is

that you want, and always, always, always keep moving

forward. And so, so, again,

thank you, Wendy. Thank you to our audience. This has been the

Collaboration show with Chuck Anderson, and I will see you on the

next one. Thank you, everyone.