Peter Rork is a retired orthopedic surgeon and co-founder and pilot for Dog is My CoPilot. In this episode, Peter shares his inspiring journey of finding purpose in his life after his wife passed away.

In 2012, he teamed up with Judy Zimet, a Scottsdale real estate attorney and animal lover, to start Dog Is My CoPilot. Over the past decade, Dog is My CoPilot has grown from flying 20-30 pets at a time to now rescuing 1,000 dogs and cats a month all across the country.

Peter and Stephan talk about the dedication of the volunteers at the animal shelters and the hard work and logistics that goes into transporting hundreds of animals at a time. In 2023, their volunteer pilot team has grown, and they now have ten pilots helping to fly their rescue missions.

Dog is My CoPilot works collaboratively with city shelters, local animal welfare organizations, and individuals to save the lives of pets abandoned in animal shelters. They reduce animal euthanasia in overcrowded shelters by ensuring that each pet has the chance to find a safe and loving home.

Find out more about Peter and Dog is My CoPilot at dogcopilot.org

This week's episode is supported in part by Teton County Solid Waste and Recycling, reminding businesses of Teton County’s “Curb to Compost” Program for food waste collection; an important next step in your restaurant’s recycling program. More at TetonCountyWY.gov or at @RoadToZeroWaste.JH on Instagram.

Support also comes from Compass Real Estate, the region's largest and most dynamic real estate company in the valley. For more information and to view current listings visit COMPASS.com or at @compassjacksonhole

Want to be a guest on The Jackson Hole Connection? Email us at connect@thejacksonholeconnection.com. Marketing and editing support by Michael Moeri (michaelmoeri.com)

You are tuned into the Jackson hole, connection, sharing, fascinating stories

of people connected to Jackson Hole.

I am truly grateful for each of you for tuning in today and support

for this podcast comes from:

Today I'm gonna begin the episode with a quote.

This one is not an original by me like I've done the past few weeks.

Here we go.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters

compared to what lies within us.

That's from Oliver Wendell Holmes.

I pulled that quote from the book, seven Habits of Highly Effective People,

which we've probably all read, but.

if you haven't read it or peruse through it recently, I recommend picking up that

book, once a year and or a few times a year just to reference some of the

information that Stephen Covey has in there can always help us and remind us

of what our purpose is and, why we do and how to accomplish what we want to.

And today you are listening to episode number 231.

My guest today is Dr.

Peter Rourke and Dr.

Rourke.

is one of the founders of Dog is my co-pilot.

After tragedy struck Peter.

He found himself in a really dark, place in life, and a good friend of his

suggested that Peter find a purpose.

And I would say that Peter certainly found a purpose that he certainly found.

And which is to save dogs from kill shelters.

It took some time to figure it out, but he, he did figure it out.

And dog is, my co-pilot has saved thousands of dogs now.

They fly cats as well.

And they started off with one little plane, which Peter's gonna

talk about the growth of dog as my co-pilot, the nonprofit, growth of

one plane based in one community.

To now two planes based in two different cities around the country.

And guess what?

They're getting ready to add another plane and another community

which they serve, in this country.

So they're gonna be covering quite a bit of the country, by the end of this year.

as Peter shares with us today, be a part of the.

And that can be applied to any problem you may find.

Peter shares how you can be part of the solution and why having some faith and

great partners will build success with time determination and lots of hard work.

Peter thank you for joining me here today at the Jackson Hole Connection

I'm delighted to find you on the ground and be able to have some of your time

Well, thank you for having me.

S.

You're very welcome And Peter I love learning people's history

and

background and I'd love for you to start off by sharing where is it that you were

raised and are you a native of Jackson And if not where how did you land here

Uh, my children are natives, but I am anything but I was born

and raised in, uh, Northern New Jersey in a New York City suburb.

, it's a community where people were either on their way up

or down the economic ladder.

Ladder.

So we had a broad cross section of things.

My father was an only child and wanted a big family.

Uh, so I was one of seven.

So, uh, and he liked to take a big family vacation every year.

So when I was about 10 years old, we all piled up a piled into the Rambler

Ambassador Station wagon with the bass.

And, uh, he says, gonna go check out some of these, uh, parks in the West.

So we went to Estees, Rocky Mountain National Park, grand Teton, Yellowstone.

Drove up to Glacier, up to Ban Canada, and it changed my world.

I mean, I, I couldn't figure out why anybody would wanna, anywhere

but in the Rocky Mountains and, uh, I mean, I was completely smitten.

So at that point I started plotting my escape and, being the youngest

of the four boys in the family, my father had gone to Rutgers College,

which was a men's school, and so my three older brothers did not.

So it fell upon me to, to go.

So I, I did my undergrad at Rutgers College.

I'd had enough in New Jersey at that time, so I moved all the way to

Baltimore to go to medical school.

not that far away, but you know,

Mm-hmm

say it's, uh, it's like an outhouse.

You want it close enough for the convenience, but far enough away

that you don't get the smell.

So . So, um, after I finished medical school, I matched to

the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque and, did my internship

in residency in, uh, orthopedic.

. I then followed that with a hand surgery fellowship at the Good Sam Hospital

in Phoenix, and then a knee surgery fellowship in South Lake Tahoe with,

uh, Richard Sedman, who passed away.

Russ in peace.

got a job offer to practice in Sun Valley, Idaho, and I just was absolutely.

moved to Sun Valley, had mountains, aspen trees, the ski area, everything

I was looking for, and I just figure out what was wrong with the place.

And it, it took me a couple years and it, uh, sun Valley is, it's really an

LA suburb it's a, it's a ski resort that built a small mountain town.

And

Hmm

After four years, I was looking for my escape.

So moved over to, Jackson when patients from Jackson started seeing me in Sun

Valley because the three orthopedic surgeons who were practicing in

Jackson all left at the same time.

Some political, you know, confrontation with the hospital administrator.

And honestly, I, I have yet to.

on an airplane flight when they, the stewards rings a button, excuse

me, we have a medical emergency.

Is there a hospital administrator on board?

You know, that just, that just doesn't happen anyway.

So they always look at us as the source of the problems, and yet

we're the, we're the solution.

So I moved to Jackson in the spring of 1990.

moved there with my wife, SQUI.

. And then, uh, we had two children, born, and they were born and raised.

One in the old hospital, one in the new hospital.

Uh, started building my practice and, um, just really, really loved it.

I felt I was at home.

I was at home and, so worked really hard.

I, worked hard for the community and the community.

exceptionally good to I mean, it was, uh, a good relationship.

And one of the things they teach you, what they never teach you in

medical school is how to say no.

So, you know, you get a call, you're in the ER to go see your patient, uh, even

if you're not on call, I mean, that's, that's just, that's kind of old school.

You don't see a lot of that now.

. But, uh, that's, that's how I practice.

So I practice until, unfortunately squirrel and I went our, kind of

our separate ways, remained great friends, two children to raise and

we raised them together very well.

and then, uh, remarried.

And, two months later, my wife passed away of a cardiac arrest and

ohh

It was brutal.

Yeah.

That it absolutely crushed me.

And that was in May of 2012 and, I just walked out of the office.

That was it.

I, I quit medicine and I retreated to my lake house up in Montana.

And I mean, there were mornings I would make a pot of coffee, down and,

uh, with the coffee mug in my hand, and look up in the sun is setting.

I'm going, what the hell just happened?

I mean, That grief can be so consuming and if, and hopefully

you'll never experience it.

But sadly, we all do and everyone handles it differently.

But, uh, I mean, I had, you know, it just, it destroyed me.

we had a mutual friend, my wife and I, who called me after a couple months and said,

, you know, Meg would want you to be happy.

She wants you to be happy, so you need to knock that shit off.

I thought, okay, been a number of months, um, you never really get over it.

You know, I'm still, she's still in the back of my head mourning her and,

but, , I, been a pilot before I went to medical school and worked my way

through medical school, teaching, flying, and doing, charter work.

I'd seen tours over the Chesapeake Bay, the, so I was familiar with

aviation, had my own aircraft.

I had done a couple rescue flights, uh, with my wife Meg, and it was kind

of a one dog, one location, one time.

and then you move on to the next flight.

There's an organization called Pilots and Paws.

And really these are a bunch of pilots who are using the dog as

an excuse to go fly the airplane.

but you know, honestly, for that, for that dog, I mean, it's a game changer.

It changes their world.

So, you know, how can you argue against that except that

it not very cost effective.

So, I started with that model and then Animal Adoption center in

Jackson wanted to start flying dogs in from San Francisco.

Marty Watts runs San Francisco as PCA a and they wanted me to fly

them in and I thought, perfect.

All right, I'll do that.

So we, we can do a flight every other week or however you want to.

So I flew out to San Francisco, met Marty Watts, and Marty had nice lunch out for

us and we chit chatted and Gibber javery.

And then she was sitting there just kind of studying.

. And then after lunch he pulled me aside and said, I have a big,

uh, a bigger mission for you.

said, uh, these folks in Jackson, yeah, that's great,

but they don't need your help.

The way this woman needs your help.

Her name is Sharon Lowman.

She's in Merced, California, which is in the Central Valley of California.

I would love for you to go down and meet her.

So I flew down the next day and, met Sharon at the.

She walked me through the municipal shelter.

Now Sharon runs a, a private organization called New Beginnings, these folks

are, were desperate to save animals.

They would go into the municipal shelter, they would find the most readily adoptable

animals, and they would put 'em in a crate, put 'em in a van, and drive 'em

to Seattle, Missoula, Boise, Spokane, salt Lake City, Denver, you name.

and these are like 16 hour trips and they're taking 20, 25 dogs at a time.

And for any of you who have ever been involved in animal transport,

you know that dog gets in the crate and the dog gets out of the crate

when it gets to its destination.

You don't stop every three hours and let 'em out and pee.

So it's brutal.

really

tough on everybody and there's an incredible sense of urgency

on the part of the drivers.

, they can't stop.

They, they don't, they can't stop and rest and check into a hotel overnight

or whatever, and then they get there and turn around and drive back.

and the municipal shelter at that time was euthanizing.

94% of all the animals that came into the shelter completely overrun.

And they didn't have an outlet.

, I mean, the dogs are coming in, people aren't going to the

shelter to, to adopt the dog.

Uh, a lot of owner surrenders mostly picked up as strays.

uh, I said, I can do that flight for you in about four hours.

All right, let me take over for you.

So I was flying a, a small six seater aircraft at the time,

Sessna 2 0 6, a capable air.

. but the size is, is rather limited.

And I could put in 20 or 25 small crates, you know, like chihuahuas

or min pens or cats or whatever.

And sadly, the, the big dogs were being left behind because if I put two of

the larger crates in, I would bulk out.

And now there's no more room.

Now it wasn't, it wasn't a weight issue, it was the size of the crate issue,

Mm-hmm

I struggled with that.

a couple of years, and then I absolutely knew I had to scale up.

So, the aircraft that I had in mind was a Cessna caravan.

It's, it's what the FedEx uses for hauling the freight.

You've seen 'em, the single engine, high wing aircraft with a

turbine engine on the front, and.

I, I went looking for one, and I mean, they cost $3 million a copy.

And, you know, we didn't have that kind of money and I

didn't have that kind of money.

so I hired a broker.

looked and looked and looked and looked, uh, all the aircraft

that were in our price range, like got seven figures a million.

had either been, you know, crashed into a lake and repaired, or, I mean, they,

they had terrible histories with these things so he found one up in Canada and a

mining company that was shutting down its flight operations and they would fly it

in and out of the old backcountry strips.

And when I saw it, I mean, the paint's chipping off of it, mean, got dents all

over it from the rocks on the runway, the interior, the ceiling is falling down.

The ceiling and your grandfather's Oldsmobile.

I mean, it was just,

in terrible shape.

But in Canada, they are very specific about their maintenance on the aircraft.

So we went through the maintenance log.

mechanical condition, complete eyesore.

I said perfect

The

The dogs don't care.

, I don't care.

The only thing I care about is what's forward of that firewall,

you know, keep that turbine spinning and keeping me in the air.

So the, the next thing I, I had to come up with the money and so I

mortgaged my house, gave the million dollars to the nonprofit as a loan

any plan on how to get it back.

But I didn't care.

I figured this is the right next step.

So Suddenly we're, we're going from flying from 20 animals at a time

to up to 200 animals at a time.

. And that in that created levels of new ways to make mistakes . And so

no one group can take 200 animals.

So you either have four or five groups, or four or five destinations,

or a combination of both.

So now I'm leaving the right dog at the wrong airport, the

wrong dog at the right airport.

It's really,

Oh

God

it figured out now we have it, we have it, uh, we have it, um, all ironed out.

know, it was interesting.

The other thing that I found was that when you're loading up the airplane

and you close the door, have like 150 or 200 panting dogs in there.

A lot of hot breath.

All the windows fog up and all the instruments.

I mean, think the backseat of the Toyota, uh, the Volkswagen

Bug high school prom night.

All right.

You know, I'm talking about So we had to carry handkerchiefs and

towels to wipe everything down and.

. But once we get up to altitude, you know, things cool off and that's

no longer a problem cuz it starts freezing on the windows and such.

I did that for a couple years and then, um, we get a phone call

from, uh, the Petco Corporation, their, their foundation arm.

And, uh, they said, oh, been, we've been watching you.

I said, great.

And they kept asking endless questions, endless que and I

didn't even know where it was.

. And, uh, so finally at the end, the gal says, well, uh, no more questions.

And, and I was really cheeky at that point, and I said, are you sure?

Not even one more question?

And she

Yes

I'm good.

I said, oh, so what can we do for you?

She says, well, we're gonna give you the Love and Action Award for Petco, and we're

gonna grant you a quarter million dollars.

And my jaw just.

Kara Pollard, who is the executive director who, who

is, uh, do you know Kara?

Do you know where Kara and Mark Mark runs?

O s m in, uh, Jackson.

In anything?

I might know them Yeah.

Kara, it's just a sweetheart.

She, she's everything that I'm not, you know, I'm Imre, I'm rude, I'm short

with people and she's just the opposite.

So, she started crying and I thought, wow, this is.

. So now that allowed me, and up to this point I'm flying five or six

days a week myself doing all the rescue flights, I'm getting a little

burned out to, to be quite honest.

And I wanted to be home with my dogs.

So, it allowed me to go out and bring on a couple new pilots.

And these are all volunteer pilots, but it costs about 10,000 bucks per pilot.

To train them every year and through recurrent training

the insurance requirements.

the caravan is a simple airplane to fly.

I mean, it, it's big, it's slow, and it's noth nothing happens really quickly.

It's got a turbine engine water power, a lot.

It's very roomy compared to the other aircraft.

And so the, the pilots, uh, were more than happy to fly it.

So did that for a couple years.

Then I started thinking, We can't keep up with the demand.

So I'm thinking we have to, we have to get another airplane.

So we started

Hmm

looking and started looking and my, my board, and we had just recently,

it took seven years to pay off a loan . So we had, board in their infant

wisdom said, okay, no more loans.

We're gonna pay cash for this next.

Now cost of everything goes up.

And so we finally found an aircraft for, close to 2 million.

And uh, Kara went out there and really beat the bushes and she and

I worked hard raising the money and we were able to raise the funds.

now we have two caravans and we have, a dozen volunteer pilots

flying for the organization.

We fly from March until, . because during the winter, I mean, when you, when you

think about it, you're flying a single engine engine airplane during the winter

over the Rocky Mountains, could go wrong?

. know, it's just,

How much

Exactly.

so now, you look at our map and it looks like a map of Southwest Airlines.

I mean, we're, we're national and.

. Oh

We, we still kind of struggled financially and then, I mean, the greatest

thing in the world happened to us.

I got a call from Connor Knighton who from CBS Sunday morning, and

he says, I wanna do a piece on you.

And I said, are you kidding me?

I mean, I grew up watching Charles Caral.

I mean, I would just, I would love to be on that program.

And it took him a couple years to get past his, uh, board back in New York.

But we finally shot the.

and it put us on the national map and allowed e expanded our

fundraising because, we're a 5 0 1 and we never charge, we never

charge our senders or the receivers.

we offer these, these gifts for free.

I mean, it's not a gift.

I mean, we're in transportation.

and honestly, uh, people say, wow, that's really great.

You're a hero.

I'm going, no, I'm not.

You know, I'm a bus driver.

You know, the real heroes are the ones who walk into those shelters every

single day and deal with those animals, cleaning out the stalls, changing

the water, exercising them, grooming them, teaching them leash training.

Uh, simple voice commands, trying to get them ready for adoption

because that's really the only option a lot of these places have.

So now we have about a hundred partners.

We fly basically from the south to the north the farther south you go in

the United States, the worse it is.

The farther north you go, the better it is.

Jackson dog.

, Portland, Seattle, Spokane.

Boise.

I mean, these are all places where the, and we fly the dogs in.

They're gone in a couple days.

So we're constantly flying the same routes.

And basically we have the same repeating flight schedule.

and it repeats over a, a two or three week period.

And I'll give you an example of, of what, what I would do.

jump in the airplane.

I fly down to Hobbs, New Mexico.

spend the night load up at four 30 in the morning, when it's

nice and cool for the dogs.

And, wheels up by about 5, 5 30.

First stop would be Denver.

second stop would.

Fort Collins.

Third stop would be Rock Springs.

Fourth stop would be Salt Lake City.

And then boom down to El Paso.

Spend the night, repeat.

Get up.

Start loading at four 30 in the morning.

Fly the dogs to Troutdale or Portland, Oregon.

to Seattle to Spokane Walla Wall.

Boise, Missoula and then back.

And so it's a, that's a three day trip.

A lot of flying, about 10 or 12 hours a day.

Sometimes weather can sometimes be an issue.

But we're all, air at tp airline transport pilot, rated.

So, uh, we can handle the weather.

It's just how much you wanna white knuckle it, you know, when you're

flying it's, it's supposed to be fun, you know, and this is what I tell

these guys, so, this and gals, cuz we have women who fly with us too.

Uh, so I use that generically in a neutral sense.

This is a want to, it's not a have to all right?

We wanna go out and we wanna do this, we wanna save, we wanna transport these dogs.

We're not saving the dogs, we're getting the golden ticket to get them to the

organizations that will get them adopted.

And so never charge the senders or the receiv.

We only fly kill to no-kill.

So if, if they're, if we get a call from a no-kill shelter, we go, well,

your dog's already taken care of.

You don't need us.

There are a lot of other people who need us.

So, that's kind of where we are.

We, I, when I first started, I thought, well, I'll do this for 10 years, or, or

10,000 animals, whichever comes first.

And when I was fine, the small plane, mean, I was fine.

About a thousand animals.

And, I mean, I've really felt good about that.

Now, suddenly we're flying 5,000 animals a year, and

Wow

we blew, I blew through that 10,000 number and then, uh, last year we

broke through 20,000, no, 25,000.

And, uh, we're gonna hit 35,000 this year.

We have two aircraft, pilots, a nationwide map.

I'm not done.

Even.

It's, it's like one of those ads.

But wait, there's more.

So order now, and Peter Rourke will get a third Cessna caravan

and he's gonna base it in Atlanta.

Because we have one in DRGs, one in Dallas.

And the Southeast, as you know, is also very rough for dogs.

very high, incidents.

Euthanasia and their shelters.

You know, 80% is not uncommon.

Probably 60% is more than norm.

But think about that.

You know, six out of 10 of all the noses that go in never come out.

I mean, that's just, I'm a dog person, you know, I, I like dogs

better than most people I know.

I mean, that's just the way it is.

I mean, I've, and I've got my two rescues right here.

I had four until, and I lost.

, that was a bad month.

occupational hazard, I suppose, because, you know, you see these

dogs and you, don't choose them.

They chose me.

So it's and the rescue is my favorite breed.

So, and I would get calls all these time about, oh, find a French bulldog for me.

I go French.

Forget that.

Why?

You can go to petfinder.com, put in French Bulldog and they'll

give you a list of 50 rescue.

that specialize in French bulldogs.

I said, my next dog's gonna be a pit bull.

Why?

Because people think they're, they're inherently dangerous.

My experience, they're the most lovable, and affectionate dogs

out there all tongue and tail.

Because remember, the animal behavior and this dog population

problem is not a dog problem.

, it's a people problem.

And so if all we have to do is educate the people, the problem?

What can we do to fix it?

And so really, you're either you're part of the solution

or you're part of the problem.

All right, And there, here are the four ways that they can choose.

You can go adopt an animal, adopt don't shop.

All right?

And better yet, adopt two.

They keep each other company and they say, well, you know,

I don't have time for the dog.

Oh yeah, you're right.

They're be much better line on a cement floor you know, with

five other dogs crammed in there, way waiting, be euthanized.

They don't mind waiting for you when you're at home.

and if you can't adopt, then foster a dog.

get it outta the shelter, let it know that it has an opportunity.

You can see their behavior changes.

It takes about three weeks and it's, uh, they can really come around.

And if you can't adopt any, you can't foster, then go by

your local shelter and volunt.

Sweep out those stalls, change the water, exercise the dogs, help groom 'em.

They all could, all could use some help.

And if you can't do that, then donate.

And you say, well, I don't want to give 'em money.

I don't want, I don't know what they're doing with Drop off some old blankets,

some leashes, a bag of dog food.

I mean, there's so many different ways that you can help

and be part of the solution.

I mean, it's people, they're all black and white.

I mean, this whole thing is gray and.

We need to get more people out there.

We need to educate them and, make this problem go away.

That is a load right there and I so appreciate it

and

I I'm not quick at math I would say in the number of years that

you've been flying that what close to half a million animals have been

saved

not by me.

No.

Remember I was flying a a thousand animals a year.

Oh a year Okay So like I said I'm not very

quick with my math

we're, we're with the two aircraft.

We're flying a thousand a month, and

Uhhuh

passed 25,000 dogs.

, I would love to see them all in one room.

. A loud

room You gonna need like the super

dumb to do that

that's right.

It brings up an interesting point because people always ask me, well, it

must be really noisy on those flights.

It's not.

you know, once that they're making noise, when we're loading the aircraft,

they're seeing the other dogs and working and talking and, gibber jabbing.

But once that turbine spins and the noise starts in the air, they haven't

heard that noise before and they're probably wondering is it gonna hurt?

I mean they, these dogs have had like the worst life you can imagine and they

don't realize they're on the aircraft.

They have a golden ticket.

They're gonna go live in the northern Rockies with a family that knows

how to take care of their, their.

We fly cats too, about 10%

. Uh

So just, just, but we put them way in the back of the aircraft.

not only because of weight and balance, but they're noisy.

I mean, they, they almost never settle down.

cats The that meowing

Um so Peter we're gonna take a quick break to get a word from one of our sponsors

and then come back I have uh a load of

questions for you

I'll be here.

Peter welcome back remarkable results here you said this year you guys will break

35,000 animals So you said you're based you're soon to be based in Atlanta You're

based in Dallas And where's the other you

guys are based Drakes Okay Just

on the other side of the pass

Driggs takes care of the West, the 14 Western states.

Dallas

Hmm

care of the central part of the country.

And also going to the east coast,

Mm-hmm

probably not this year, but next year we'll get our third caravan

base in Atlanta and that will take care of all the East Coast issues.

And basically it's moving the dogs from south to north.

Okay And you said this is a people issue Tell me how People

can be better to help solve

this issue

uh, it's hip to snip.

All right, so spay and neuter is the way to go.

say, well, you know, I, I want them to have this.

First litter or whatever, or they, they wanna buy it from a breeder or, and I

have no problem if you wanna buy it from breeder, there should be a tax on that.

You know, it's interesting that you, you go in to get your hair cut and they

have to have a, license to do that.

They have a ha have to have a license to do nails.

why don't they have to have a license to breed dogs?

Generate a revenue stream.

Create a situation where we can police and make sure it's being done humanely.

the spay and neuter clinics, I mean, a lot of 'em, you know, they, they give

away these coupons so it's free and, and a lot of the people who are economically

challenged may maybe don't have the time or the ability to get to these locations.

And so now they're doing MobilePay neuter clinic.

That, that's, that's really the key.

It's the spay and neuter is, is the answer.

So people are

breeding

dogs and then they sell 'em and then those

dogs are not

backyard

spayed And

do they do when they don't sell them?

They dump 'em at the pound.

Oh

so, and you've seen these guys at Walmart holding up a little chihuahua,

you know, dog for sale or whatever, you know, it just, . Honestly, I

don't think they're bad people.

I just

don't

think they're

they're part of the solution.

Yeah And why in the south is it such an issue Is it their climate It's just more

happening there

it's a lot warmer.

The dogs are out, running around.

They're, they're not really house dogs.

mean, my dogs sleep on my bed with me.

All right.

In

. Mine does

too Yeah

you go.

Yeah

in the south they just kind of run wild and, and it's also a cultural thing.

They like to keep their dogs intact, you know, maybe a more of a macho thing.

I don't know.

but it certainly seems to fit and it just, so they're out there breeding

like crazy the puppies get pregnant.

The, these dogs get pregnant.

The owner.

either kill the puppies or they dump the puppies at the pound.

you know, puppies actually go pretty quickly in the pound.

Everybody wants a little puppy until they figure out.

And a lot of 'em are returned because these, they don't know what the breed is.

And then suddenly this puppy is like 90 pound mask or

something like that, , massive

Hmm

And you know, they don't have room for that.

And I go, well, I have room for it, but Yeah.

It's, it's an educational issue.

And if, uh, they should start teaching it in schools.

I mean, it's, it's just to teach the kids how to be good.

And there's, is it, that brings up a point.

We used to do, um, a critter camp with, uh, Merced and Missoula, and once a

month I would fly an aircraft full.

Of animals up, and they would have a day camp for these kids the week, and

they would sign and assign the animal to this one child, and the child would

learn how to groom it, how to, you know, how feed it and how to walk in

voice commands and stuff like that.

How to foster the animal.

And of course, , you know, the deep, dark secret is that we

want this to be a failed foster.

Where , where the parents say, okay, well it's time to take the dog back and

, and the child is gonna go, you can't

So maybe, maybe that's manipulating a little bit, but who cares?

If it gets a job done?

It gets a job done.

We're not harming.

Sure And with all these dogs that you all have saved just remarkable remarkable

numbers There are there any other organizations that are doing this as well

There are a lot there are a lot of transport organizations,

but they're ground transport.

Mm-hmm

there's one other, but they're, they're running into a little difficulty right

now with some personality issues.

They're based out of la and of course there's the pilots and PAW

organization where you can fly the one dog the one time and and stuff.

when, when I was flying the dogs in the 2 0 6, we, uh, it costs us

about $75 per animal per transport.

And you go, well, that's not so, And then we get the caravan and it costs

us 750 bucks an hour to run this thing.

But through economies of scale.

Now the cost is about $50 per animal per transport, and that's about the

same cost as a, um, a spay neuter fee.

Actually, the vets maybe even charge a little bit more.

so it's, it's cost effective.

And I mean, I, I say the more the merrier, you know, if, if you have an

airplane, and you want to put a dog in it and fly it somewhere, that's great.

The, the problem is it ends up costing them about.

A thousand bucks to transport this one animal, and we're doing it for 50.

but they're, they like to fly and as I said earlier, they're

using the animal as an excuse.

By the way, a shout out to Dr.

Brent Blue, who lives in Jackson.

He's one of our volunteer pilots and has just got back from flight safety

doing his annual, recurrent training.

He's looking forward.

about 12 or 15 rescue missions for us this year.

We ask each of our pilots to fly about between 10 and 15, depending

on what their, their schedule allows.

And right now we're, we already have our schedule and it, we'll, we're gonna be

flying hundred and over a hundred rescue flights that we have on the calendar now.

We leave some blanks in there for things that come We're, we're

frequently asked if we go and respond to, say, a hurricane situation or a

flood situation, and go rescue those dogs, well we did that when they had

floods down in New Orleans so, we did.

They had the floods in New Orleans.

The shelters are killing up.

fly the caravan down there, fly the.

up to Seattle and, and Wyoming and all over the west.

And then about a week later, the owners are coming in looking for their dogs.

. What

So we don't do it that way anymore,

huh

if, if we have enough heads up and there's a storm coming, we'll fly down

and empty the shelters so that the dogs that are recovered can stay in the

shelters till their owners come to them.

Do you follow?

. Yeah.

that makes sense

we, we did it perfectly backward.

Just yet.

Another mistake that, that we made, no, no one was harmed.

And you know, they say, well, we want you to go and bring that dog back.

I go, no, I

Hm Well we all there's as we grow in any business in in life we we make mistakes

but it doesn't mean it's an intentional

harmful mistake but you learn from it and you figure out okay how can we still

accomplish our goal but just make the effort better so we don't have the same

mistake

we, I have a lot of people helping we've got it pretty much wired now.

We know, we tag all the animals, reverse load them according to destination.

And, um, and all the health certificates that go into an envelope, we have how

many crates are getting out, not how many animals, cuz we count the crates

and sometimes there are, there are two animals in a, in a much larger crate.

know, a nursing mother with four or five of her pups, you know, will be in one

Hmm

So that that's,

Remarkable work Peter

Remarkable work

and

I, I'm really proud of, of, and believe me, I have a lot of help.

and, um, just as when I was practicing orthopedics in

Jackson, I had a lot of help too.

A lot of great people there.

And, uh, and a shout out to Teun Outpatient services.

The, the, uh, outpatient surgical clinic that I started back in the late nineties

or whatever, put me in, in a bad way with the hospital, but the patients loved.

And when you so do you guys have a a network of shelters where

you guys are running these routes

with

All

do.

And that's we, I have two, Kara Pollard, who's our executive director

and primary fundraiser is also our Chief Rescue flight coordinator.

got to be too much for her as we kept scaling up and expanding.

So we now have two full-time rescue flight coordinators and they'll make

sure that, that numbers of animals that they want to put on the plane

is realistic in both directions.

We're not gonna fly down and, and fly five dogs out.

That just doesn't make sense us economically when we can go

Mm

and fill the aircraft so they know

Sure

aircraft every time.

what we don't want to happen is have to leave five or 10 animals

the tarmac cuz there's no room.

they learn of the crate, they learn the number of the crates.

The rescue flight coordinators, uh, Du and Kara Pollard There's,

there's a group in El Paso, Kayla, she's just an absolute sweetheart.

and she was featured on the c v s Sunday morning piece that Connor Knighton

did, uh, with us a couple years ago.

And they actually built a mockup of the interior of the

aircraft and practiced loading.

it's the only

place

I go

go to where I just stand there at four 30 in the morning and drink my coffee.

And these gals are in there just putting those crates in like a Tetris

master, I mean, and no space left.

And they know exact, and we've been fully flown so many flights for them.

And it, it's such a pleasure when you're working with the

same group over and over again.

They become such great friends.

And so this is, I've, I've started taking the rescue flight coordinators,

Kara and Lynette along on these flights.

I said, you know, you've never really met these.

need me to meet these people?

You're on the phone with them all the time and, uh, you know, I know their face.

And so they actually just last week got back from a 10 day, road trip around

Texas with all of our Texas partners.

And rarely we're, we're sourcing about 90% of all our animals out of Texas.

Now it, it's, it's a mess and

Hmm

I, I think that.

Care, or maybe they can't afford it.

I, I don't know.

But you go into the shelters down in Edinburgh or down in

Laredo on these border towns,

mm-hmm

break your heart.

It'll, it'll

Hmm

break your heart.

And you think, it smells bad in the airplane.

You go into those shelters and it, it just, it's brutal.

And got the, the volunteers who go in there and work.

They're the heroes in my book, not, not

mm-hmm

receiving group.

They're great too, but the sending groups, they're making do with absolutely nothing.

It's just a absolutely a labor of love,

What a big win for them to see all those dogs um leave that kill shelter

as well

real

Mm-hmm

It's just, and this is what I love about these folks.

They are emotionally involved.

They, and they, we could, we could fly for the same group every week.

Every week, but there are other groups in that same situation.

So I let the gals, I, I paint with broad strokes where we're gonna do the

flights, how we're gonna do it, how we're gonna coordinate it so we don't.

Send a pilot, A down and back, they're out there for three or four or five

days sometimes stringing together a lot of these trips to save, having

come back to the home base and the additional expense of flying the aircraft

empty and we almost never fly, empty.

Uh, and so for an example, mentioned I get in the plane, I

fly down to Hobbs, New Mexico.

Well, what I do on the way down, I'll stop in Rock Springs in Salt

Lake City and I'll pick up the crate.

That I left off with the animals.

Ah

so then I return the empty crates, um, to the sending group because then,

Uhhuh

are used over and over and over again, they, they get, there's a lot of wear

and tear and once a month we have a dog that breaks out of its crate.

And it's, uh, you know, the first time you noticed.

they work their way up through the front.

And then you have this hot breath on your neck, , and you

go and, and there's this dog.

And you wonder, well, I hope it's friendly.

Well, of course it's friendly because the sending group not going to send a

dog with behavioral issues to a receiving

Hmm

because that's the last time the receiving group will ever work with them.

So the, the receiving groups will.

cherry pick the animals that are most likely to be adopted.

Because remember, this is they're going to non kelp, and those,

Mm-hmm

if they, it doesn't work out, not flying 'em back to be euthanized uhuh.

That's not what we do.

Yeah.

I, mean you gotta adopt 'em out You want it to be a successful adoption

so other people hear about it and wanna go to that shelter as well so

Yeah I uh, you know, the, when we were a child, you'd go to the pet

store and you'd buy your dog there.

I mean, that's the way it used to be.

Nobody knew about the pound, you know.

Mm-hmm

That's the best place for it.

And as I mentioned, you can go to Petfinder and you can find

whatever you want out there.

And honestly, if it's in Texas and it's coming in this direction, if

you wanna throw it on one of our flights, we're happy to do it.

You just reach out to Kara, powered at kara dog co-pilot dot org.

K a R a dog co-pilot org.

So what's the website

It's

if people wanted to reach out and

donate to you guys

Dub dog co-pilot dot org.

has

Mm-hmm

a link on there where you can donate and it has a lot of the stories,

has pictures of the pilots, uh, has pictures of the board members.

It has a lot of the interviews, uh, that I've done over the years.

We would love to include this one if we could put a link on, on our website.

We've got, I, don't do Facebook.

I mean, I did, It just, when I finally shut it down, I felt like

I graduated from high school.

It's

. Ah

It was, uh, it just took up so much time.

But we have, you know, tens of thousands of followers for D I M C.

um, they'll, they'll go to the website, they'll, they'll pick up your podcast

and probably listen to some of the other podcasts, which I'm going to.

Thank you Thank you Well it's stories like yours or for people who are

making a a difference and making an impact and uh in in the world And

as you said earlier be a part of

Yeah Yeah It it's you might not realize it Mm-hmm it's not hard

to be a part of the solution and there's a lot of dogs out there that

can bring lots of joy to different

families

or individuals as well

see stray dogs running around.

you

Mm

see that.

you go down to the Central Valley of Merced, you'll, see stray

dogs on every street corner.

It's, it's heartbreaking.

mm

And, these dogs have been living on their own and they're,

they're hard to trap sometimes.

And

I

bet they are

and then with the cats, you know, they have the, a catch and release.

What they do, they'll catch the cat, spay a neuter of the animal, kind

of clip its ear, so you can tell and then release it back into the.

. And that way

Mm-hmm

capture it again and they see the clipped ear, they just kind of let it go.

But, uh, that's what they're doing in the larger cities

and that's a terrific program.

Doesn't work so well with, with dogs.

more of a dog person anyway.

My youngest wants two cats and my wife's gonna take him to volunteer at the agency

to help clean the litter boxes and help take care of the cats to see if he really

wants to help take care of a cat before

he gets

any cat

at the Animal Adoption Center, they'll fos, they'll, they'll keep cats there.

They foster all the dogs out.

don't keep any dogs there.

. There's also the, the, um, shelter that's just south of

town by the recycling center,

Yes sir

might want to take him in there,

. There's plenty of volunteer

to clean a litter box before uh

right?

he there's we've had a cat before and cleaning the litter box is not my

idea of fun But um we have a dog as

well so

so, and

Well

have you.

we actually got a full

breed

dog but we started my first dog Flash came from the Animal Adoption Agency

when Cupcakes started it And he came from a no-kill shelter And to see

how he progressed as I had him as I had flash over the years was just

remarkable And he was just a sweet sweet

dog

know, they

And then

our emotions on the animals.

who says

that has

has never had a dog, I mean,

Yeah

have real emotions and you,

How do they do

grateful.

are

Mm-hmm

I mean, I, my two dogs that are right here, I've got a golden

and a black lab, and they're.

Purebred dogs.

I mean, but they ended up on my

Hmm

I mean, I didn't, didn't go looking for them.

If someone asked if I would transport them, it was a night, like an

owner surrender kind of thing.

And

Mm-hmm

I said, yeah, I'll transport them right to my house.

good I'm glad you had 'em And we tried adopting a dog but the dog we were not

the right family for that dog And what we paid for the adoption fees from the

shelter Um they said Well, we'll give them back to you I said no keep the

adoption the fees that we pay to help find the right family for this dog So

that's not a barrier for the dog to be

adopted And they they

found a family for that dog which

story.

Uh, over a third of

hmm

that are adopted are returned.

. just doesn't fit and they

don't

fit for

for any number of reasons.

But

Mm-hmm

you know what they would do in Texas if it didn't fit, drive along the highway, open

the door, kick the dog out, and take off.

That's what they do.

Brutal.

a shame.

shame.

Yeah.

The punish

It's a shame

be great.

Yeah.

Well, Dr.

Rourke, Peter, I will let you get back to your day.

I've so enjoyed hearing the impact in the world that you're making,

and thank you for saving all these dogs' lives and, and even the cats

as Well,

Stephen, thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for, uh, helping us get the word out.

Jackson's my home.

I love Jackson.

my kids grew up there.

Graduated Jackson High School.

My son is still.

There, he, uh, tends bar at the coach and and one of the Thai restaurants in town.

So say hi to Buller when you go by and I mean, people will look at

him though, so you have to be Dr.

Rourke's kid.

I mean, he's like a mini me , he's such a great guy too.

Oh, he smokes.

What was your kid?

I'm sure he is

you so much for

Yeah

for having me.

Thanks for, uh,

You're welcome

Dog as my copart.

You're

welcome Have a great day

To learn more about Peter Rourke and Dog is my co-pilot.

Visit the Jackson hole connection.com, episode number 231.

Folks, get out there and help save some animals.

You can donate today to Dog is my co-pilot.

Go to their website.

and share this podcast.

Maybe there's some other dog lovers and cat lovers that you know and they would

enjoy listening to the history and how these dogs and cats are flown around the

country to save them from kill shelters.

Thank you to Michael for producing, marketing and editing this podcast,

and of course to my lovely wife Laura, and my boys Lewis and William.

your time is valuable and I appreciate your time.

I'm grateful for you spending your time with me and sharing your time

with me, and I will see you here back again next week for another episode