Showtopping web3 skins in your hands! Phydigital finds a solution to sustainably solve fashion waste by creating wearables on demand. As the worlds largest digital to physical creator Phydigital is quickly becoming the center where fashion and Web3 stakeholders converge. In this episode, Louise Laing, Founder & CEO at PhygitalTwin spotlights the evolution that the new fashion industry is changing to. A heart to heart on the democracy of fashion stemming from Skins to Abstracts , the future of fashion is here. Wear To Earn .

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PhygitalTwin - Metareal

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (CEO & Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Louise Laing (Founder & CEO at PhygitalTwin)

00:23

Nadja

Hey, web3 world. This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam and you are listening to the Future of NFTs, the show that looks beyond current NFT use cases to what non fungible token technology is evolving into. All this as seen through the eyes and built by the minds of the fascinating guest speakers that we are very lucky to speak to each week. AdLunam is building the web3 industry's first investment platform, aka IDO Launchpad, with a Proof of Attention allocation mechanism. And the reason that the Future of NFTs are so important to us is because our investor profiles are dynamic NFTs, which powers our Engage to Earn model by allowing for fractionalization of engagement earned allocation during private and public web3 investment rounds. Now onto today. If fashion is your thing, listen up, because the $1.7 trillion global fashion industry is going digital. Our discussion today centers around digital fashion, which combines both physical and digital garments, AR, filters and wearables.

01:31

Nadja

Future of Fashion is here and our guest today is one of the best people in the industry to tell you more about it. So let's welcome to the show Louise Laing, founder of PhygitalTwin. With a remarkable entrepreneurial journey, Louise has successfully launched fashion brands that have grown into multimillion pound businesses. So PhygitalTwin, which I'm sure Louise will tell us a lot more about, is a brainchild that has come about after, I think, a long journey in the fashion industry. So very well informed by the ongoing trends in fashion, PhygitalTwin provides comprehensive solutions for creators, communities and businesses to transform their 2D and 3D assets into stunning fashion collections and skins. PhygitalTwin's mission is centered around educating and empowering individuals and corporations who wish to leverage 3D design tools to enhance and develop their own fashion lines. Ultimately, the vision is to become the world's most sustainable digital fashion company while also establishing themselves as the largest print-on-demand marketplace and as a futurist and a thought leader in the rapidly evolving realm of digital fashion and the metaverse.

02:49

Nadja

Louise is a true pioneer in on demand fashion and a catalyst for change, both in terms of environmental sustainability and social impact, which of course are two extremely pertinent topics, especially in the world that we live in today. So I'm very thrilled to have Louise on the show today to delve into the Future of NFTs, the future of the physical and the digital in fashion and the transformative power of digital twin in revolutionizing the fashion industry. Louise, welcome to the show. So happy to have you with us today.

03:25

Louise

Thank you so much for having me and lovely to see so many listeners. Thank you for tuning in.

03:30

Nadja

All right, so let's get right into it. For those listeners who might not be familiar with the concept, can you explain the idea behind digital fashion and how it combines physical and digital garments?

03:44

Louise

Yes, the word digital combines digital and physical to create a digital. So it was coined, I guess, when we set up PhygitalTwin. Really, the concept was ideated a couple of years ago, and the word digital existed. So it's basically the twinning of the digital and the physical assets. My background is fashion. I spent a long time working with the product merchandising, production range, planning, forecasting, and really, I could see how much waste was being created. So after working for luxury brands such as Kilgore Reese, been the CEO of a brand called shrimp, it was really for me. I really saw this opportunity with digital fashion to almost democratize the existing. The way that fashion works, it's extremely broken industry with so much waste. Margins are low, the overproduction is huge. So it's very difficult to make money in fashion. To be totally honest, we came up with the idea of PhygitalTwin and using the digital asset to basically be to streamline the whole process and then only make the physical, as you said, on demand after you've actually known that digital asset a) Works is popular and you've got a sale.

05:26

Louise

So that's how we came up with well, that's how we're called PhygitalTwin. And that hopefully explains digital.

05:35

Nadja

Yeah. So just to contextualize a bit what Louise is referring to in terms of waste. So the statistics say that out of 100 billion garments produced each year around the world, 92 million tons end up in landfills. I mean, this is an insane amount. If we are talking about a world in which we are facing quite severe environmental challenges and the concept of fast fashion, which means that fashion is produced at rapid speed and is incredibly cheap, so that we can just produce and consume more and more garments on a stupendous basis, it really becomes such a pertinent topic. So, Louise, I have to ask in terms of your own journey from the fashion industry into now web3, how did that come about? Were you already aware of web3 and wanted to kind of move more into this realm, or was it more the concerns, as you highlighted, and you were looking for a solution, which turned out to be the more digital approach?

06:37

Louise

I mean, it was really for me, it was during COVID and I was consulting for companies who ended up one of my primary roles was in planning and forecasting and product and merchandising, as I said, and kind of running people's PNLs and businesses. And it was just becoming so difficult. During COVID obviously, companies had no money. They were really struggling, and all their cash was tied up in stock. And it was during this time I thought, I need to do something different. I want to make a difference. I don't want to be doing this and sitting on tons of waste and feeling responsible for that myself. And at the same time, digital fashion, the crypto had already begun and was quite established, and digital fashion was kind of becoming more and more talked about. And I saw a connection with how we can use it, go digital first and then make the physical after.

07:41

Louise

And that's how when I started, actually, when I had COVID, I just sat down, had two weeks on my own, and I just literally brainchild PhygitalTwin. Wrote, like, 15,000 words on how I saw the future of this. So it's really fortunate to have COVID. For me, personally, it actually worked out as an opportunity to have some headspace to rethink what I was doing and how we could make a difference. And it was two things, really. It was one was reducing waste and doing things in a more streamlined way. And the other was, I've done lots of startups, and generally there's a barrier to entry for anybody that wants to have their own fashion collection, traditional methods. It costs like, 50,000 pounds. You have to buy a lot of stock. The samples are expensive. The whole development is expensive. And I was like, how can we actually I work with we're connected to lots of influencers.

08:42

Louise

We know lots of people that want to have fashion brands, but when I say to them, oh, it's 50 grand, they say, I don't want to take that risk. So how can we use the digital tools that are there now, like 3D CLO, to a, reduce waste, and B, offer this kind of, I suppose, service or design asset, provide these digital assets and design services to people that want to have their own collections, kind of make it happen for them. So we married the two together, the two problems, really, which is barriers for entry and the waste. And that's how it kind of came to fruition.

09:25

Nadja

Yeah. It's fascinating to me how pivotal COVID was in so many people's journeys. I mean, I think if you look at the history of humanity, we've never really slowed down as much as we did during COVID. I mean, at least in our generations that we know of. And I hear so many stories about people who really were able to I mean, including myself as well, just were able to take a step back and really reevaluate what they're doing with their lives, where they are in their careers, and really what change they really want to make in the world. So you mentioned earlier, in terms of the democratization aspect, how do you see digital fashion as being democratizing? Both to creators? Of course, this digital first on demand, creator based approach that you have, as well as consumers, how does it affect both those stakeholders in terms of democratizing, their access, their usage, and really just how they engage with fashion in general?

10:25

Louise

I think that it's a completely different route, isn't it? It's like if you think about traditional fashion methods, how we shop online or we go to a store, they're basically the two revenue. There's two ways you're going to buy fashion now. Now there's lots more avenues. And I think one, well, two that we do, which I think is so exciting is one is AR filters, one is the wearables for the metaverse. And I think the same time I've got children that during COVID were on roadblocks the entire day and I saw they were visualizing themselves in digital clothing and caring about how their digital identity was. And so I think in terms of democratizing, it's like if we could see ourselves within a metaverse environment or a game and like, the clothing that we're connected with have a connection with that clothing before we buy it, and then the same time using AI, AR filters to do the same job that everyone's playing with snap filters.

11:39

Louise

And it's like I can try a garment on like in the comfort of my own home using a filter. I've engaged with that product, I see what it looks like on me, I then can buy that. And I think that's shopping in a completely entirely different way and one that has much more engagement and meaning to it. Just, for example, like, returns run at 35% for most fashion brands. I know I've been at fault of this. Buy ten things from the store, try them on, send nine back or wall ten back. That generally means that the garments end up in landfill primarily because they can't process them quick enough. So it's not the best way of shopping. And so I do think that the whole digital realms can enable us to hopefully shop in a more kind of, I suppose, informed way as well. If you think about Immersive stores, like, we built one for our last influencer where you can go and you can look in this Immersive store, you can click things, you can see the products and they are it can pop up in your home and you can see things really clearly, unlike on an ecommerce website.

12:58

Louise

It's totally different. It's all in 3D. So I think it's very exciting how these 3D tools can basically democratize the way we shop and buy and will do in the future.

13:14

Nadja

We definitely live in an extremely exciting time. I want to come back to the question about digital identity, but before I do that, maybe just to contextualize for the listeners in terms of the AR filters and wearables, how do you use this within the PhygitalTwin ecosystem?

13:32

Louise

So with AR filters, we offer everybody that we work with the opportunity to have their well, it goes both ways and it really depends because we're quite varied on who we work with. So just for example, take one Decentraland, we partnered the 3D for Metaverse Fashion Week, and we created a wearable that you could buy there, and then you could have the physical. You come to the website, connect your wallet, and get the physical sample delivered to your house after you'd worn the wearable. So that's one option. Another is we're doing a school project at the moment, which is really exciting, where year six children get to design their own hoodie using our customization tools, and then the winner gets a Roblox skin. And so they're just two examples of how we're using wearables with AR, we use it as a virtual try on.

14:40

Louise

Sometimes there's limits with AR try ons. We did a sports collection. If it's too tight, it doesn't necessarily track your body. So we added wings and we made it more engaging and much more fun. And it's ideally supposed to reduce returns, increase engagement, and mean that you can play with that filter any way you like. And every time I use an AR filter, everybody has a smile on their face. I just love it so much. And people do city dances, and it's quite entertaining. It's really fun.

15:17

Nadja

Yeah, I love that. And I also love the fact that you are working with children, because, I mean, as an adult, we have had an extremely different understanding of what it means to be in a digital world because depending on how old you are, you were when the Internet became a thing. And I mean, also, the early Internet was really not accessible or even relatable to most people. So it's really only in the last, I would say, decade or so that it became so much part of our everyday lives. So in terms of this idea of a digital identity, which is something I'm extremely passionate about and spend a lot of my time thinking about as we make this transition, how do you see the differences in what the understanding is of a digital identity between different generations? Of course, as you mentioned, kids being on Roblox or in Minecraft every day, their idea of what it means to be their digital selves is very different from, let's say, myself, which is from a completely different generation.

16:17

Nadja

So do you see differences in the evolution of what it means to have an identity as we move more and more into this digital first realm?

16:27

Louise

100%, we've tried to sell the idea of digitally dressing like customers. We offer it as a service, but it's not that popular, in all honesty. But when I say to my children, because I think a lot of us of a certain age, they don't really see necessarily the value in wearing a digital asset when they could have a physical one because it's tangible. But then when you ask the younger generation and I say to my children, do you see that? What do you think? They're like? Yes, because they're so used to being digitally dressed. So I really hope because there's so many advantages of digitally dressing oneself for social media or for influencers or for fashion shoots, whatever the reason to have that open mind, which I think generation Alpha 100% do, they will see themselves. They'll be very happy to be digitally dressed, and you can see that now.

17:31

Louise

So I think it's just a matter of time of this generation growing up to make it mass adoption.

17:41

Nadja

Something that I find really interesting. I'm not particularly a fashion oriented person, but when I find myself in the Metaverse, suddenly I have this urge to express myself through clothing that I definitely would never wear in everyday life. I mean, a lot of it's very over the top and like, doing little dances. So do you think that also for the older I don't like referring to us as the older generation, but do you think that the non gen Alpha generation, gen Z, millennials, et cetera, that there will also be a shift in the way that we see fashion, that we also move more into? This acceptance of expressing yourself digitally might be a much easier and let's say safer way, because I don't necessarily have the need to, I don't know, go into the street wearing a dinosaur costume, but I am very open to doing it online.

18:35

Louise

Yeah. No, I agree. I think that when I went into Metaverse Fashion Week, I wanted to be the one that had lights all over me and look a bit crazy and you want to sort of stand out and be noticed. I think that's definitely some experimentation within the Metaverse is really fun and also the opportunity to be quite different. You can have your whole body on fire. It's a great opportunity to be experimental. I love it.

19:12

Nadja

I'm so excited for just how things are evolving. And that brings me to the question, as someone who's been in the fashion industry for most of your career, I presume, how do you think that the growth of digital fashion and all of these different aspects, whether it's NFTs, the Metaverse, AR filters, wearables, et cetera, how is it going to impact traditional retail channels over the long term?

19:42

Louise

20:50

Louise

But I think brands are really slow on the uptake, especially corporates. It takes so long to get anything approved through the system, but I think in time it will become norm. But again, it's like digital clothing. It's just going to take a long time. Short stores won't be the same. You've got to make it enticing.

21:14

Nadja

Yeah. I mean, especially in a world where everyone is selling fashion and there's a store on every single corner, there's a website galore that sells every fashion imaginable. I can imagine that pretty soon, with all of these new tools, it's going to become something that's almost a necessity as much as at the moment, it's a fun thing to try out or a luxury. But I have a question around. So google recently came out with this new AI shopping feature, this try on model that you're able to conceptualize, kind of if you're looking for something online, how it might look on you. Do you think that something like this is also going to fuel the advancement of these tools? As the everyday person that goes on, google suddenly is able to try on something that before might not have been possible? Would that make people more open to, especially, as were discussing earlier, an older generation that might not be as digital first as the younger ones?

22:14

Nadja

Do you think that's going to, let's say, desensitize us to this idea that fashion should actually be digital first?

22:22

Louise

Yeah, I think all these things help and it's just more exposure, more exposures. And I feel even just with talking to my friends and just as the technology becomes more mainstream and just more massively adopted, I think it will become more normal. I still think that we have to wait for the generation alpha to sort of grow up for it to become properly mainstream. And there's still a slight resistance there from lots of people, but 100%, the more google do it, the more that the tools advance, the easier it will become. The tools still are very, They’re not

23:09

Louise

Where they need to be. We've still got a bit of a way to go, but our vision is ideally you would come to our ,we've got the customization tools that we're launching the hoodie next week, and then we'll roll that out to lots of different styles. And the idea is that you can scan your body, you can see what that garment looks like on you, and then you can get that physical garment made on demand after you've customized it, essentially so that you have a little bit of input into that as well. And that might just be changing a color. It might just be adding your name or it might just be doing something small, but at least you've got then more of a relationship with that product. You've tried it on, you know that it fits you've customized it. And we really see that as a future of kind of, I don't know, ideally retail.

24:08

Louise

And then again, you can have that in the store. You can have customers that come in, they can try it on using the magic mirror. They can then check out with this magic mirror and have a copy of that for their social media to post as well. And I think just always linking it back to the digital, more companies doing that, more people seeing it will become more normal.

24:39

Nadja

So you said that we are early, and I absolutely agree with you. It's always a tough one when you are part of an industry that is in such early stages that it feels as if it's lagging behind and it's not taking the time that you wanted to take because of course you are involved with it and you want things to move forward. But it's always when you zoom out and you realize that it's still such a small percentage of the world population that even thinks about these concepts. So if I can ask you to put your futurist hat on for a second, how do you think that the future of fashion is going to evolve over the next decade, especially in the light of digital fashion NFTs, different web3 tools? Considering that we are still so very early and that even the web3 industry as a whole is still struggling with awareness and adoption, et cetera, okay.

25:38

Louise

We’ve been sort of talking about AI a lot. I mean, who hasn't? But I see AI as becoming very important for the future of fashion. And one of the things that we're trying to really kind of imagine is how you can actually use AI to design. So we've got our customization tool, for example, but you still have to upload your PNG file. You have to take away the background. It's manual as such. So imagine if you could go on and say, oh, I'd like a dress and I'd like to have a V-neck, I'd like to have frilly calves. I'd love it to be pink with orange spots on. So where was I? So AI with customization, where you can have AI prompts that say to you, which design? I would like a V-neck, I would like a footy calf, or I would like it to be like thy length.

26:38

Louise

You can obviously get AI to change the fabric for you. You can get to put a print on for you. Obviously, you have to have a little bit of an idea about what you want. But I see the fashion in the next ten years becoming much more about the creator economy and much more about giving everybody the tools to be able to design their own collections. For example, we have a marketplace where there's any creators that want to have their own collections. You can work with us to have your own collections. You can sell it on the marketplace. You have new revenue streams. And this hasn't existed before because the tech hasn't existed to make it mainstream. So imagine if you can design a dress using AI, then sell it on a platform, make some money, or just do it for yourself. It's just something you can never find what you want, and the pattern gets adjusted in the back end.

27:27

Louise

So I think everything, all the touch points along building fashion collections has always been very time consuming to even imagine what to start, what to create for fashion brands, season to season, can use AI. Obviously, there's issues with AI, with IP, and where did the ideas come from? But it can speed things up, and I think it can open up fashion collections to the masses. And that's where I really hope the future goes. Also seeing digital fashion, seeing yourself in the metaverse first that we discussed earlier, and then being able to order that in a game. We're working with gaming companies where they see designing their own skins and then buying them afterwards. And I think this is like actually using gaming as a shopping experience is a really exciting future tool for retailers, more and more people.

28:40

Nadja

I find that absolutely fascinating because, as I said earlier, I'm really not fashion oriented. And the reason this is because the cycles, the seasonal cycles, it might not be, and very often, in fact, most of the time, it's just simply not something that suits me, my personality and my style. So for years now, I've stopped buying fashion. I always just get my own things made. I have my own pattern and go to a tailor and have it tailor made. But I love this approach of just being able to digitize this, because it really does mean that everyone becomes their own creator, as you said. And not only do you not have to be a fashion designer in order to create your own fashion style, but also you're able to share that with the world and join the creator economy in this sense, even if you don't have a background in fashion or are not a fashion designer.

29:32

Nadja

So I'm curious, in terms of the existing fashion industry, obviously this unlocks so much potential for emerging designers and independent creators. So how do you think this is going to influence established fashion brands who suddenly have to find themselves now competing with emerging designers who I mean, in the traditional system, there's so many gatekeepers that prevents these rising stars from really being noticed. How do you think the approach from well-established fashion brands, I mean, the big brands that we all know, might love, might hate, might support, might find unaffordable? How are they going to we've already seen some of them and kind of, I think, in fashion, one of the top use cases for the Web3 industry is fashion in the sense that they're really jumping on it early. But there are also other fashion brands who we've not seen any movement from.

30:32

Nadja

Do you think it's going to come to a point where they will recognize, I think you alluded to this in the beginning, you're either going to get in or, well, there's no real alternative. But what do you see the response being at the moment, and how do you think that response might shift as the competition becomes a lot more creative focused, as opposed to this top down approach where these brands dictate what people wear?

31:01

Louise

I think they'll start doing more collaborations. I think the one thing that Web3 has done and I've just noticed, is actually just expose how many brilliant creators there are out there, all the digital designers, all the people creating amazing artwork. With NFTs, it's so creative and there's so much of it. So I think that they obviously see that. And these people are also creating communities, they have followers. It's easy for them to sell, it's easy for them to and I think brands, they're not using Discord, they're on traditional mediums like Instagram, which isn't what it was. It's very hard to maintain followers these days without paying high digital marketing budget. So they will want to tap into this world as they are starting to, and do more collaborations, I think, with talented creators. So I think it will become cross pollinated. I think it has to.

32:10

Louise

So I think if they just continue to do it on their own, unless you're nice or you're added a** or you've got huge budgets, it's going to be very difficult to kind of catch up. So, yeah, I think really interesting time. We're starting with so many talented digital designers, and what we want to do at Digital Twin is almost kind of enable those designers to have their own fashion collections. So they might use 3D cloth, they might use blender, but they don't understand garment construction or any of the technical aspects or where to go and get fabrics or how to manufacture it. So we're saying, okay, there's so much talent there, we've picked a few, and we're sort of working with them. We're doing a Catwalk with one in September. We really want to support as much of this talent as possible so that they can have their own fashion collections.

33:06

Louise

And of course, we've got the marketplace to sell it for them as well and just do revenue share. Because I think the creativity with all of these new digital tools means that the designs they're coming up with are a little bit more creative and a little bit more out there because they're not necessarily having to think about traditional garment manufacturing. But then if you say, okay, well. You've created this. If we can just change this and this, you can then have a collection. It becomes like something much more conceptual and different and it's exciting. I think brands are going to have to work with this web3 community I think, to stay relevant long term. And gaming companies, you see it more and more like more and more partnerships with Epic Games and that becoming a real kind of revenue avenue that brands will need to go down.

34:15

Nadja

Yeah, it's a really exciting time to be alive. Sometimes a little bit frightening, but definitely in the context of this conversation, absolutely exciting. So I'm curious, in terms of fashion and the fashion industry, what trends have there been in using NFTs and what do you think NFTs might be used for in future in the fashion context?

34:39

Louise

Sorry, hold on, my dog.

34:43

Nadja

We don't mind dogs, we love dogs. So happy to have a little hello from, I don't know, what's your dog's name?

34:50

Louise

She's called Leila. Bless her. Hey Leila. So what was the question about NFTs?

35:00

Nadja

Right, so what trends have there been thus far in using NFTs for fashion? And how do you think that might shift in the future?

35:11

Louise

We've seen lots of utilities attached to gone are the days I think where you can just sell an NFT. It has to be loaded with utility. And I think one of those things that's really amazing for brands is the loyalty program, the fact that you can reward your customers. I love the idea of where to earn. So obviously we can touch on NFTs, but if you can add an NFT to the garment, that then matches your NFT and then you can track. So we're doing some fitness collections and in my head I'm like if you can track how many steps that person's done through the NFT chip and then reward them on points, on token, then they become incentivized to wear it, to promote it, you can sell more. So I think utilities is kind of what we've seen so far, and special access and access to different communities, token gated access as well, which we also do on our website.

36:18

Louise

But I think the future will become much more about the NFCs and how NFCs then integrate with the NFTs obviously and become your true authentic physical item.

36:38

Nadja

Yeah, that is absolutely fascinating. I can't even envision a future in which I will be wearing to earn, but I'm all for it and any excuse to have a reason to wear something. And I think this is really the rationale behind it is enticing customers to engage with you and to really make whatever you're selling or offering part of their lives as opposed to this kind of web2 top down approach that we've had on the internet as well as in the physical world. But that brings me to a question that I think is also very important to you this idea of really embracing sustainability, whether it's environmental, whether it's social, this is something that obviously the fashion industry has not placed a lot of prominence on. I mean, fast fashion is a huge issue. So do you think that we will have a future where the idea of fast fashion will coexist with this new way of thinking?

37:38

Nadja

Will it always be around? Or do you see that we will gradually move into a different mindset where fast fashion becomes an issue for everyone, whether it's because of the impact that it has or simply because people embrace a more digital first lifestyle approach to the decision making that they take. How do you see the future of fast fashion?

38:00

Louise

Well, I mean, I'd love it to be extinct, and that's what we're really trying to promote, and that's why we're working with the school. So this pilot program that we're doing with year six children who are all eleven, it's really teaching them. It's a sustainability project with the government, children's parliament to show them a way of the on demand is like, really, it's real. You can wait, you can get garment in five days. Instead of that whole mentality of, like, I'll buy it and you have it the next day. I think it's educating the children that it's better to wait for something that they can design something. I think it's all about education, and I hope with the right education and that fast fashion will slowly kind of deteriorate. But it's also from the brand perspective, like, I know ASOS is very much online, and we talked about how returns are impacting businesses.

39:03

Louise

Now, if you take the like of an ASOS, they lost 300 million last year. It's becoming very difficult, this whole traditional business model for brands to make money. So I think there's two things. There's one, brands need to change to become profitable again. They need to look at their whole supply chain and their roots to market and how they can reduce waste and use digital assets to test the market before they even go into a style. There's so many ways of utilizing it to engage with your community more, ask them what they want instead of just making it and hoping it sells. So I think there's lots and lots of different things that the brands can do. First and foremost, stay relevant and equally, customers going a different route and as we said, engaging in the digital. So this generation alpha, if we can try to change their shopping habits slightly, then it will improve the whole ecosystem and hopefully, in turn, reduce fast fashion.

40:09

Louise

And the more that on demand becomes popular, the more that we can reduce the price points. One of my main kind of objectives when we started this is I used to do a lot of manufacturing in China, and then we have to import it, you have to pay tax on it, and it's not cheap in the end, especially with Brexit, it's becoming harder, especially for the UK. So if we can increase the production of mom, then we bring down the margins and improve productivity, then it becomes more competitive as well. Because also you've got to bear in mind, like, one of ones is harder than making 100,000. So I think all of this comes together with educating the children and I guess as well, reusing clothes, repurposing this huge trend for renting garments. I think there's a lot of different initiatives nowadays too fast fashioned that there weren't ten years ago.

41:12

Louise

So, yeah, I really hope it's definitely reduced significantly in the next ten years.

41:20

Nadja

It reminds me of that idea of you're planting a tree, not so you can sit in a shade, but you're doing it for the next generation. And it sounds very much like this is also something that you are focused on, that this is not a short term gain, but you're building something that in future will become mainstream. But it's still a long way to actually getting there. So I have to ask, as much as everything sounds incredibly exciting, and I'm very eager to see how this is all going to evolve, are there ethical, social, et cetera, considerations that we need to address as fashion becomes more digitized, more accessible through these ways that we've been talking about?

42:07

Louise

Am I missing something? I don't necessarily see that there are. I mean, I do see it's all positives, I think, see the labor rate. If you talk about on demand production, there's nothing not to like about it. If we're talking about digital assets, I don't know, actually, for me, no, I haven't thought that through. I can't think of anything that springs to mind that is particularly negative about it at all.

42:41

Nadja

And it definitely sounds like what is being worked on is aiming to solve a lot of the systemic issues that we have at the moment. So I can imagine that as we progressively move into this future, that a lot of these issues that at the moment are so difficult for us to solve because it's just part and parcel of the process might by itself become gradually eliminated, or at least lessened so. That's definitely something to look forward to. But then challenges in terms of adoption, let's say, whether it's technological, whether it's cultural, what issues or challenges do you foresee there? I mean, we've mentioned earlier about the generational gap, let's say, between how older generations view the idea of digital fashion, but are there other challenges that perhaps you either are already aware of or that you foresee might pop up in future from an adoption perspective?

43:38

Louise

Well, yes, I mean, I think it's still Stone ascent, isn't it? So we live in a bubble of this is sort of the web3 digital first, like on demand afterwards. But it is still very Nissan. Of course it is. And we're talking to a small amount of people, I think. I suppose one of the main challenges for me with NFTs and fashion is,

44:08

Louise

How complex wallets are still and fashion is very still very web2. And so what we try to do is to try to bridge the gap between the web2 and the web3 and onboard people from web2 to web3. I feel like the technology needs to catch up with wallets and NFTs and trust as well needs to catch up a little bit like it's quite broken. We are careful about our language around it. We don't often promote that we do it. We do have a solution, an NFT integration solution, and we obviously believe in it so fully. But I think that you have to be careful with the language and trust and yeah, I think for NFTs to be 100%, they will become just part of every transaction that we have and there would be one day that we won't even know that we've got an NFT.

45:16

Louise

But I think the technology that side needs to improve, needs to be more secure and it needs to just be easier to have a wallet, I think for lots of people get put off.

45:32

Nadja

100% agree with you. I always say if you work in web3, you love to use the terminology and you really desperately want the terminology to be used, but really only when the solutions are being used, rather than just referring to the technology or referring to the solutions, that's when we'll know that we've made a success of it. What you are doing, what you are building, it's really future facing it's long term. So what role do you see PhygitalTwin shaping this future of the metaverse, digital fashion, et cetera?

46:10

Louise

We're kind of really ambitious in what we want to do and we want to be the first port of call for people that want to have their gaming companies that want to have their own collections, designers that want to have their own collections. We want to be that kind of go to marketplace and the biggest kind of on demand, print on demand company. I'm really servicing Web3. I don't see brands onboarding in the masses just yet because of the reasons that we discuss. But there really is so much opportunities for all of the markets that we discussed earlier, like the creators, the gaming companies, all of these that haven't had their own collections. We want to be that go to company that can make it happen for them on a scalable, efficient, productive way. That's really how we see the future. And just to be also provide these AI tools so that people can also we can do things offline, but so that people can see their own garments themselves, like you said, and become your own couture as such.

47:32

Nadja

Yeah, I think for me that's always what the advent of technology is moving towards is this idea that of self-sovereignty. I mean, we talk about self-sovereignty in the crypto context in terms of owning your own, having ownership over your own funds, not relying on banks. But it's fascinating to really just zoom out using the same concept and thinking about this idea of self-sovereignty as permeating every aspect of our lives. So do you think that as the concept of digital fashion becomes more prevalent, that people are going to start viewing their relationship with fashion in general? I mean, what they wear, how they look, how they express themselves. Is it going to become something that is just going to change the face of how people interact with the clothes that they wear, whether it's in the real world, whether it's in the digital world, which, again touches on this concept of digital identity that really is shifting from.

48:31

Nadja

As I said earlier, the reason I really don't engage in the fashion industry is because I don't feel that what is being sold in the marketplace is something that accurately reflects who I am. But I have the ability, due to my own privilege, I have the ability to step outside of it and go, okay, you know what? I'm not going to participate in this. I'm going to choose my own style. I'm going to get someone to make it for me. But in terms of the digital tools that are out there being built as we speak, such as yours, it sounds like it might really lower the barrier to entry for people to also adopt a similar mindset. And then of course, have these on demand tools that really places them at a center of self-empowerment, as opposed to at the moment where brands are telling us what we should be wearing and how we should be expressing ourselves.

49:18

Louise

Well, that's exactly what we want to do, and open those doors and make it so much easier for people to be able to do just that. You have to go to somebody. You have to have that conversation. Can you imagine it's all taken away from you? And you can just do it online. You can have we made a dress for Ascot last week and it was made in two days, literally designed and made in two days using a print that we already had, but a shape that we already had. So you imagine if you have lots of people have their patterns, they can just upload them, and then every time they have an event, they can just go, okay, I found this pattern, I like, I'm just going to print it. I know that fits me because it's already been tried and tested and they go, I've got it in two days, and I can have a digital asset of that, or I can have an NFT too, and it can be NFC tag.

50:07

Louise

So I can have all of the advantages of the NFC, NFC technology as well. Yeah, I think it's a bit sort of like it's the future. I think you could even have your own outfit to wear in your favorite game as well. The same one that you've just designed that you're going to wear to a party. All out.

50:39

Nadja

I can't wait. Probably a few decades from now listening to this conversation again, if it's still online. I mean, Spotify don't go anywhere to listen to this again and have all of this be normal and realize how far we've come from really just now being on the conceptual stage to getting to where we are going in future. So my last question, but in the meantime, I just want to remind the audience, if you would like to ask Louise a question, please DM the question to the AdLunam handle and the team will pass it on to me. So Louise, out of everything we've been speaking about and I mean there's been so many areas that we have touched on and so many really exciting things to look forward to. What is the thing that personally excites you the most about the future of fashion and the potential that these digital fashion tools hold?

51:28

Louise

Well, I do honestly, I think it really is about the creative economy. That's what excites me the most. It's just about giving the tools to people to be able to have their own collections and to do this. Like at the moment we do handhold to a certain extent, but for people to be able to do it automatically and for people to be able to make money themselves, we just create new revenue opportunities. And of course at the same time I'm really excited about education. As I said, we want to roll out this whole pilot that we're doing with eleven year olds. We want to do it across the UK, globally, to be able to do sort of training programs within the Metaverse to underprivileged countries so that everybody can kind of start to understand how we see the future of fashion. And I'm really excited about education, creator economy, and we're just working with lots of talent out there.

52:25

Louise

Like just doing something good that makes a difference.

52:31

Nadja

Yeah, that is beautiful. And it's definitely something that I can get behind as well. So I'm quickly just looking through here, how do I pronounce this? Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. I don't even know how to pronounce this username. I'm not even going to try. I'm sorry. I'm going to completely mess it up. What advice would you give to entrepreneurs or creators looking to enter the space?

52:56

Louise

Oh gosh, that's a really good question. I would say if you have an idea and you're really passionate about it, then just create a really good deck. Really think through the whole process. Start connecting with anybody that you can on LinkedIn that you think can help you. Be brave, be bold and go for it. And I think that if you kind of have an idea, if you have a dream and you're so passionate about it, you should try it. Just give it a go and just get advice and try and build a support network as much as you can. I found LinkedIn really helpful, actually. Just starting out. When you transition to a new industry or a different industry, just connecting with people all the time, I think is really valuable.

53:48

Nadja

And then the next question, let me just see, what are the key factors that will make you successful in digital fashion? And this is by Amanda.

53:58

Louise

Oh, gosh. I mean, I think digital fashion, if I can say digital fashion, I mean, create key factors. I think pure creativity. But I think building a community. I think if you look at, I mean, Stephanie films, just, for example, she's definitely done so well. And we work with a designer called Blanc de Blanc. These two have been really successful, and both of them actually train. They offer training, they show people their journeys. They're really transparent. They're almost educators within their own right. And I think that really helps. So it's about community, and it's about sharing things. And, yeah, it's also about talent. But there's so many talented people out there. I think the difference is probably the engagement with the community, making it real.

54:57

Nadja

That's beautiful how all of these different approaches that are evolving are really all merging into this just beautiful blossoming opportunity that puts people at the center as opposed to brands at the center, and we being at the periphery. But I see we have a lot of people on here today that are very interested in this industry from a participatory aspect, maybe being creators themselves. My next question comes from Nikusim, and I am new to fashion. Should I start digital or physical?

55:37

Louise

I think if you're new, that's also a very good question. It depends, really, what tools you have. But it seems if you can get access to Blender, which is free, I think, then start digitally, why not? It's really fun. Learning the physical part of it is a little bit harder, I think. But once you've got great digital designs, then also you can come and speak to us, and we can help you with the physical part. But I think, as we discussed earlier, Nadja, there's more barriers with the physical part, so you can be completely creative with the digital part. And it's great for content and social media. It's really fun. I think people more engaged with it nowadays.

56:35

Nadja

I think that is all the time that we have for questions today. Those of you who submitted your question, you are welcome to connect with Louise on Twitter. Louise, where is the best place to actually connect with you? You mentioned LinkedIn. We are on here on Twitter. But where is the best place for folks to reach out to you if they have more questions or really just to follow PhygitalTwin and what you guys are building?

56:56

Louise

Yeah. Follow us on Instagram. PhygitalTwin on Instagram. Follow us on Twitter as well. We post regularly there. Feel free to DM me. LinkedIn is probably best, but any of the mediums PhygitalTwin, Instagram Louise Lang, Louise Lang on LinkedIn and I'd be happy to follow up with any of you separately. Thank you so much for listening.

57:23

Nadja

Louise, Thank you so much. I think I myself am walking away with so many insights and just ideas that I've never even thought about, so I can imagine it must be the same for the audience. So thank you so much for sharing your experience, your insight and also your future forecast with us. As I said, I can't wait to listen to this episode 40 years from now and go, well, now it's all pretty normal. I don't know if it is going to be 40 years. Let's see. Yeah, absolutely great having you on. All of you who tuned in live as well. If you're listening to this after the fact, thank you so much for sharing this hour with us, and I suppose we will catch you in style somewhere around the Metaverse, and I will see you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs, brought to you by AdLunam.

58:08

Nadja

Cheers, guys. Louise, thank you so much. I'm very excited to follow along what you guys are doing and how it's going to evolving to be evolving, especially in terms of education. That's also something that's really close to my own heart and I believe that if we want to change the generational behavior, we have to start young. So I think it sounds like that's exactly the approach that you guys have and absolutely respect and honor you for it. Thank you so much. Can't wait to see what's next.

58:36

Louise

Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Take care. Bye.