Join Host David Schultz as he welcomes Pastors David Bahn and Jeff Doria to discuss the “new normal” of worship in the age of social distancing and “non-congregating congregations". God is still active and at work in wondrous ways as churches find new and different methods of carrying God’s message of grace and salvation to an anxious world.

Good evening. This is Dave Schultz of a just coming to you on Sunday night with a program that we call engaging truth. And we have two men that, um, have been through some real difficult times lately making, making it possible for the people of St. John to have the word of God brought into their lives. And I'm introducing to you. Many people have heard them and seen them before. Pastor Dave VA, senior senior pastor, and Jeff Doria, the associate pastor. Let's just talk a little bit about where you are in the ministry of St. John in this virus that just has come swamping around

Us. Where do I begin? Yes, uh, in a place we've never been before charted uncharted waters. Um, we, uh, our leadership team, him read a book called canoeing the mountains, and, um, we are definitely canoeing the mountains we have, uh, we've had to sell our canoes. We've had to give up the idea of traveling on the river and we're moving forward in ways that we had never anticipated, uh, trying to make sure that the message of God's word is available to people. And we're doing that through video, um, presentations on Sunday mornings, as well as on Wednesdays throughout L mm-hmm

What is this thing called? Virtual media yeah,

Virtual virtual media. Well, um, right now it seems like every church is jumping online to get the message out, to do their worship services. And, uh, and it's a, it's a great place to be because, uh, you can technically reach even more people, um, if they were to actually log on. And, uh, and so we have, uh, it's just another tool. It's another medium. It's another way of getting the message of Jesus into the world.

Is there a way of determining who's in there to listen to you, to watch you

To some extent there is, but, uh, it's not, uh, not necessarily something that we, uh, are taking advantage of. We're, we're simply, um, making sure that we are present and available to people who are, um, um, who are of a available to us by, uh, going on to the YouTube channel or to the St. John website. Yeah.

When people log on and they, they make comments, you can actually see who's interacting with you. So to some degree you can have some conversations, can receive prayer requests, um, answer questions, be of encouragement. So it's good.

There takes preparation to put together a service, whether it's service that you do in the ordinary, or whether the unordinary, which is what we're doing right now, the preparation for that service, what does it look like?

well, I tell you, it looks come next door. Very different. Yeah. If you were to see next door, the, uh, the worship center, uh, is what would appear to be in disarray because there's tables and cameras and tripods and, and lights and so forth and different spaces and places, then it would normally be. Um, and then it requires us to think differently. Um, I like to think of it as, um, um, talking to somebody in their living room. And so, as I'm looking at the camera, I'm just talking to people in their living room. Um, it, it, it just is a whole different way of thinking when it comes to bringing the message into people's lives in this way. How

Do you prepare differently, brother Jeff?

Well, one way is that I'm writing sermons early in the week instead of late in the week. And, uh, so, but that's interesting. Uh, my schedule is really has changed. Uh, one of the difference as you were already alluding to about, uh, speaking about, about we're talking to people in the living rooms. Well, you know, remember the, most of them probably still in their pajamas, sipping on a coffee that they just made sitting in the comfort of their couch or Lazyboy and, and, uh, so it's a different, uh, setting, uh, and, uh, and for us, uh, there's no, uh, immediate response when you're reading some scripture or, uh, um, some of the liturgy and things you normally have some responsive reading and some, um, back and forth. Um, and so we just have to kind of imagine that it's happening. So, um, as far as preparation, we have to do use a lot of our own imagination cuz we don't have the people. And so when you're just talking to an empty worship center, instead of having 300 people in the worship center, it has a different feel, kinda like

What we're doing today. Just talking to a microphone.

Yeah. Talking to a microphone. Mm-hmm there you

Go. What's the new normal look like brother?

Well, it looks like a different schedule. Um, our offices are theoretically closed. We do have some folks that are occasionally in the office cuz they need to be for various reasons. But, um, we don't, uh, we don't have a regular staff meetings that we normally do at least not in physical presence. We've gone online, uh, for those as well. We use a video conference, uh, uh, tool for that. Uh, it looks like, uh, not being able to gather with a large group of people for a Sunday morning experience that, uh, most people have, uh, really appreciated and been been, uh, very, um, um, uh, part of and very engaged in, uh, to a place where like, uh, like pastor Jeff was saying, we don't know if they're nodding their heads or if they're shaking their heads, we don't know if they're going, what in the world is he saying or, wow, that's great.

You know? And so, um, a it's a, it's a place where we have to rely upon the, the fact that God's word is true and that it will not return void and that we simply must proclaim that word. That's, that's where we are. That's where we have to be. So the new normal is, is, uh, disjointed it's, uh, way more disconnected to when we'd like to be. Um, it's very much, um, it's very, um, um, unusual and it's, it's kind of surreal. You walk outside and the sun is still shining and the birds are still, and the flowers are still blooming. And in a way, I think that's a reminder to us of the fact that, uh, you know, life goes on and that God is in control of all things. So we just need to, you know, keep that in mind, even as this new normal is very different. Mm-hmm ,

I wonder as the people listen, um, as they finally say, well, this is some's thing that will help us to do what we ordinarily do on Sunday is this, can you see this affecting their life through the working of the holy spirit in a different way? Or is it just the same stuff? Jeff

, you know, I guess a lot of that still is yet to be determined. Uh, well, we'll find out as it goes, uh, when we speak about a new normal we're in a, we're in a temporary state of a new normal, but we don't know what it's gonna be like when we go back. Um, and so, but I do think that there's gonna be some benefits to us specifically at St. John. And that is the fact that up until this point, we've not had our worship services or message just video recorded and, and saved online. And so now in addition to going, you know, public, um, on a Sunday morning at the normal, uh, service times, we're also saving worship services and sermons and some of our music and things like that that can go, people can go back to, and maybe they did miss the service.

Well, then they can see the whole thing. And I know a lot of churches have been already live streaming and doing it, but for us specifically at St. John, I think it is gonna be a benefit that, that people, um, um, are gonna be blessed by what we're doing now in a different way. But also there may be some more expectations that we have to deal with in the future of, are we gonna cont what are we gonna continue when we quote go back to go back to the way it was and is that even possible? And so we're trying to evaluate what are the things we can still do. Um, even when we hope to once again, um, gather together personally and not worry about six foot

Space. Let me just take a break here and kind of introduce you to, to who we are and what we do. We'd like to remind you that this program is listeners supported. We are Elm is a 5 0 1 [inaudible], [inaudible] not for profit organization. And all of our hosts are volunteers. Your donations help us to remain with our programming on the air. You can go to our website, Elm houston.org to donate online, or you can send an offering a check of some sort to Elm PO box 5 68, Cypress, Texas, 77, 410. Also at our website, Elm houston.org. You can access podcasts of past engaging truth programs or use a contact tab to ask us a question comment on our programming, or even submit a prayer request. And we will be back to you with that prayer request. Let me just ask some more questions about this, because it is really Infor in informational and it is exciting really, in a sense, as I watch it from a perspective of doing ministry all together, different way for all of my, uh, 50 plus years, what does this look like around the corner? You must have thought something about this brother, uh, about what this is gonna look like, what it look like in your mind. um,

Well, part of it, we are very much looking forward to being able to gather publicly for worship mm-hmm . I mean, I, we're looking forward to being able to shake hands and greet each other and give each other a hug and those kinds of things that we just will not do until it's safe to do. So. Um, we also know that, uh, there will be a different sense of what it to be, uh, a part of the church and, um, how that, you know, I think we don't really know yet exactly what that's going to look like. Having a more significant and robust online presence, I think is part of what we would anticipate. Um, but actually, you know, what, what it will also mean is that we will continue the March forward in, in the area of technology we actually already have on a regular basis, we have our services recorded and, um, at least our majestic gray services recorded and put onto a DVD and delivered to, uh, some of our shut ins.

So we do have that already happening, but this will be another step that I think will raise the bar in terms of our, uh, technical abilities, our, uh, or excellence and quality of production and things like that. Um, that I anticipate we, we may be doing. Uh, there's one other thing that I, I wonder about, and I'm not sure what that's going to mean, but I remember you made a statement, uh, Dave, um, several years ago, um, where you commented on, on the fact that there are people, churches who are just active, active, active, doing things, doing things, doing things, thinking that that is a sign of life and it's not right. Um, it can just be a sign of activity. And, um, and so what we might want to do as a church is to say, okay, what truly is important that we would actually do good thought and what programs do we need to re um, reevaluate, um, restart and what do we need to say?

Okay, that was good, but maybe that was good then. And now we're going to see if we can find a way to do something better. That would be my hope out of this, because we're still functioning. We're still encouraging our people to connect their neighbors to true riches in Jesus. We're still worshiping God, although in a very different way, we're still trying to build relationships. And that's the thing that we'll be able to do better once this crisis is, is over mm-hmm . Um, but we are, we have no programs on campus. And so what, what will, what will that mean and how will that carry out into the future? That's the question. I think that excites me more than anything else. Um, because quite frankly, um, there are times when I feel like our calendar is just so heavy Laden that, um, that I'm wondering is that really all necessary?

What a great question. Jeff, he led you into a great question. Is that all worthwhile? All the stuff that we do and all the things that we push every day, is that worth examining? Yeah, well,

Of course it is. And, uh, we, our, our mission here is to connect people, our neighbors specifically, uh, connect our neighbors to the true riches in Jesus. And so when you get to, what are the true riches, you start really evaluating what is really, uh, essential. And I know that word is getting used to lot, um, these days, but, um, really, you know, what is essential for our lives and, uh, sure. There's a lot of extras and, uh, a lot of fun things that we can do, but you wanna make sure that you're doing what you really need to do. Uh, as far as some of the changes go, I, I remind myself, I can only go as far as I can see. And when I get there, I'll see a little farther. And so for me, it's kind of incremental and, uh, um, and, and it's an exciting time to, to lead people to what is true. Um, I think across our nation, across the world, um, that's exactly what's happening for a lot of people is that they're reevaluating, uh, their life. They're having to reevaluate, uh, the priorities, um, you know, re evaluating their faith in God. And, uh, and so, uh, it's exciting time to see

What's interesting to me is that all things to work together for good, you know, and you look at this, this virus as ugly as it is, and as destructive as it is and what we must do to, uh, change the way we do things. Um, what's interesting to me is that around the corner, things will change dramatically. We cannot predict what those things are gonna look like, but when you look at this in a, in a special way as pastors, and you see the people out there listening to what you are saying and doing, or watching what you were saying and doing, is it making a difference for them? Have you heard anything, has this got their attention in any special way?

We are hearing pretty regularly that people really appreciate the fact that we are available to them through the video that we do provide, um, both, both on Facebook, as well as on YouTube. And people can get to that from our website St. john.tv and, um, online worship resources and, and they're, you know, readily available, including previous services that we've had and people are saying they really appreciate that. I think, um, it still is very much a substitute for what we hope we will soon be able to do again. And that is to gather publicly and to enjoy the fellowship in person face to face. And some of those program that we have I'm sure will come back, cuz they're good programs. Mm-hmm , but we might need to say, okay, how do they come back? And on what level and so forth, uh, are they, are they done?

Are they, um, uh, produced and provided? Uh, but as far as is it making a difference? I, I believe so because without it, there is a huge void mm-hmm . And frankly, if you, if you took away the gospel message from the airwaves and from the, um, uh, video, uh, presentations that are done by many, many churches, um, there's a terrible void and a very dangerous void that the internet affords, um, all the way from fake new news and, and kind of fear mongering to horrible, um, video and, uh, websites that, you know, are, are despicable and, uh, destructive to people's hearts and lives and souls. And so by us being there, we are at least providing a place for people to go that is wholesome and E and, um, faith, faith building. And that's our hope that that would be happening and that people would be embracing it. Yeah.

When the virus is finally over and it probably will be, cuz I remember when polio was over mm-hmm and uh, Harray Harray, you know, just put that little sugar tube underneath your tongue and away a you go, but it will be over. And, um, there will, there will come a time when we have to reevaluate just about everything that we do, including how we worship. Uh, when you look at, when you look at the ways in which we worship today, is it easy to peel away some of the stuff that doesn't have value as you begin to see what you are doing and it's affecting the lives of the children that you serve? Uh, is it

Easy to peel that away? No. Um, people are attached to a lot of things and uh, it may not be something you're attached to, but uh, you know, for example, uh, Sunday school, you know, something like that. Yeah. There are gonna be some on people that are, you know, are not connected to such a program that we've had. It's always been a strong program here at St. John, but then there are others that live for that. I mean, they love it. It's such an important part. So, uh, when we start thinking about the different programs and the different aspects of our congregational life, uh, we have to be very conscientious of, of what our people are really attached to and, and recognize when we make, you know, decisions. And, and there are things that are gonna change that, you know, people are gonna have heartburn about it and, uh, and, and have to minister to that, uh, recognize that. So, uh, but it definitely is an opportunity for us to again, uh, see what's important.

Media has changed dramatically since you were a boy. Uh, the use of media has changed. Absolutely. You, you can remember the first television program. You can remember, uh, the snow mm-hmm uh, on the television say you can remember the wrestling matches that were the first one. Oh yeah. Dick the

Bruiser,

But that is all changed. Yeah. And now obsessing the whole media are things that are evil. Yeah. Is there time to address this? Is, is it time following the, the, um, the virus to say there are things that we haven't looked at carefully and we need to do it now because of what is happening. Yeah.

Maybe it's time to do it now because people are online more and more and more, and they're accessing media more and more and more. So maybe this is a time to say, good idea. Watch what you watch, be careful guard your heart. Mm-hmm

Renew mind, turn your eyes on Jesus and Jesus alone. Yeah.

That's been our theme throughout the Linton season is, uh, eyes on Jesus. And, um, you know, that's a good reminder. Let's keep our eyes on him.

And it's difficult with all the other pressures from the outside

Pressures, distractions, distractions, um, people being lulled. I mean, you, you binge watch, I don't know. I'm not a binge watcher. I've heard that it happens though. and I think, um, I think it, you know, how can you not after three or four episodes of some program just kind of be a zombie, I mean, just kind of a, just kind of eyes and mind glaze over. And, um, and so, um, one of the things that, you know, we've done is make sure that we are physically active during this time as well. And we get up. And, um, so I, I actually saw a 20, 20, 20 rule today that I thought was pretty good, every 20 seconds, excuse me, every 20 minutes, look at something 20 feet away for 20 seconds. And it's just a, just a, an a, you know, um, a reminder of, of just even your eyes and having that need to have that, uh, um, relieved, if you

Will, Jeff, I've asked brother David, this question, maybe I get back to you. Is it time today, tomorrow to address what is happening on the, the media that we no longer need at all?

Hmm. Well, I'm not sure what you're referring to. You have a,

Well, like you saying, binges watching. Um, well, I am really, my television could be turned off because there's no sports

Well, yeah, yeah. Um, well, I mean, one of the great things about our country is we have the freedom and that people are able to use their gifts and do a lot of great stuff. So whether it's athletics, I mean, I love sports. I love competition. I miss that professional stuff, but there's also a lot of crud that goes on along with that. And we see the sinfulness of man, um, and greed, certainly even in the midst of some really good competitiveness and, uh, athleticism. Uh, so you're gonna get your good with the bad and, and all these things. Um, do we want to teach our people to, uh, be discerning? Uh, yeah. And this is a good time where they're not, maybe they're not caught up with the different specs found in media, but if people use a discerning mind, um, then that's gonna be beneficial. What's

The only message that has any significance for us at this time and in this place in history.

Well, the message is the message of Jesus Christ crucified buried, raised from the dead. Come again, the message of hope that that brings the message of truth that, uh, is founded and clearly, uh, laid out for us in God's word. Then none of that ever changes.

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at 7:00 PM at 100.7, the word be sure to us out on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts, just search for engaging truth to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 6, 8, Cypress Texas 7 7 4 1 0. Or visit our website Elm houston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.