When I saw that our 200th episode was coming up, I knew I wanted to do something special to celebrate. Listeners called in with questions for me for our 100th episode, which was released in September 2019. The numbering is a bit fuzzy, I have to admit - we're actually well over 200 episodes because there have been an assortment of Sharing Your Parenting Mojo conversations with parents and other folks that use a different numbering system, but whatever. It's still a milestone😊   Back then, I was just getting into exploring big social justice issues on the podcast. Early in 2020 I did two episodes on how patriarchy affects our parenting, followed by an extended series on the intersection of race and parenting, and several episodes on advertising and consumerism.   We learned a lot about sex, and I started what has become a series of 'deconstructed' episodes where I examine an idea that is usually assumed to be 'the way it is,' and find out that perhaps that isn't the way it is after all. I looked at:

• How most of what we think we know about attachment theory is probably wrong
• Authoritative isn't the best parenting 'style'
• The current darling of anyone working on mental health, Polyvagal theory, is most likely a myth (although it may still be a somewhat useful myth)

  In June of 2022, in preparation for a pair of episodes on supporting neurodivergent parents and children, I interviewed Dr. Hanna Bertilsdotter-Rosqvist, who is autistic, to test out the autism screener. I wasn't expecting it to return a positive result for me, ultimately resulting in a self-diagnosis that, of course, I shared in an episode. Lots of listeners reached out after that one to offer gratitude, and one message I will carry for a long time said something like: "I always conceptually knew that neurodivergent people have value but it wasn't until I heard how your autism helps you to process all of this information for us that I truly got it."   So given that you've heard a lot from and about me over the last few years, I thought a natural next step would be to offer listeners the option of asking my husband Alvin anything they wanted!   We received quite a few questions, and two listeners - iris, who has been around for many years, and Corrine who joined us more recently - stepped up to co-interview him. I was quite willing to throw him to the wolves and let him do the interview himself but he wanted me to be there, so I joined as well. (I should note that the conversation was scheduled for a week when some really hard things were happening in a community that I'm in, and my energy level was a bit low.)   Alvin has many amazing qualities but succinctness has never been among them, so unfortunately we only made it through about half of iris and Corrine's questions, as well as those that listeners submitted. We did talk about:

• Alvin's relationship with his own parents (who think we're terrible parents to Carys);
• How we met (an inappropriate workplace relationship!);
• How Carys is similar to/different from us;
• What I was like before I started the podcast compared to now;
• How Alvin has changed over the last 10 years, as a person and as a parent - and how he's deepening his relationship with Carys using Your Parenting Mojo's tools

  We plan to come back for round two in the future!   Here are a couple of things we talked about on the episode:

• A somewhat difficult-to-see picture of Alvin with long bleached hair
• My guides to hiking the Tour du Mont Blanc with a baby

 

Jump to Highlights

00:42 Introduction to this episode 00:55 Guest hosts Iris and Corrine introduce themselves 06:54 Alvin shares the elevator pitch for his love story with Jen 15:18 Jen’s qualities that drew Alvin to her 20:42 Alvin’s childhood and family interactions while growing up 27:17 Family conflicts arising from diverse approaches to meeting core needs, especially in Carys's relationship with her grandparents 32:22 The changes (if any) in Jen's personality and approach to parenting from before she started researching the topic to the present 37:28 Alvin’s reflection on the impact and significance of Your Parenting Mojo 43:51 The ways Carys differs from Jen and Alvin 47:14 The most significant shifts for Alvin as a parent and as a person. 57:56 Wrapping up the discussion

Emma: 00:03

Hi, I'm Emma, and I'm listening from the UK. We all want our children to lead fulfilled lives. But we're surrounded by conflicting information and clickbait headlines that leave us wondering what to do as parents. The Your Parenting Mojo podcast distills scientific research on parenting and child development into tools parents can actually use every day in their real lives with their real children. If you'd like to be notified when new episodes are released, and get a free infographic on the 13 Reasons your child isn't listening to you (And what to do about each one), just head on over to YourParentingMojo.com/subscribe. And pretty soon, you're going to get tired of hearing my voice read this intro. So come and record one yourself at YourParentingMojo.com/RecordTheIntro

Corrine: 00:42

Welcome to this very special episode of Your Parenting Mojo. I'm Corrine.

Iris: 00:55

And I'm Iris and we are your guest hosts for today's podcast. And I was about to joke that I'm actually Jen and just have this like disguise or something. But so in early November, Jen sent the members, and I think all of the Your Parenting Mojo listeners, and she said that Your Parenting Mojo reached a special milestone. And it's that milestone is that Jen has created or have created over 200 episodes. Like, isn't that amazing Corrine? It's just like whoa, 200 plus! And to celebrate this milestone, Jen and her husband, Alvin, have thought of a fun way for podcast listeners and parenting group members to be involved. And that is asking very different questions than what we might normally ask. And so we get to ask Alvin, anything we like. But just to clarify, this is not these kinds of questions are not like, what's the square root of four to a million of places? Or is there life after death? Not those kinds of questions.

Jen Lumanlan: 02:11

But he doesn't know the answer to those questions. Anyway.

Iris: 02:15

So Corrine, what can the listeners expect from this podcast?

Corrine: 02:21

Today during this Ask Alvin Anything episode, you the listeners will get to learn more about Alvin, and at the same time, learn more about Jen, and their life beyond Your Parenting Mojo. So we hope this will be a fun and honest conversation. Iris and I will both be asking questions.

Alvin: 02:41

Wait, there's beyond the P Your Parenting Mojo?

Corrine: 02:43

Beyond. There's a beyond. We think we're gonna find out. But Jen. Jen will also be part of the conversation. She's here today. But she gets to take a break from hosting. And many of the questions came from listeners. So we'll hear some of those recorded questions throughout the episode today. And Iris before we begin, should we introduce ourselves?

Iris: 03:11

Oh, that's right. So I'm Irish and based in Vancouver, Canada, but I'm originally from the Philippines. So that's my Filipino accent, right? You know about there. So I'm mama of an almost nine year old daughter who's affectionate, smart and feisty. And you know, and I've been following Jen's work for over five years now, I think and I've been a member of the Your Parenting Mojo for about that time as well.

Alvin: 03:40

Parenting membership.

Iris: 03:41

Membership. Yeah, yeah. And Jen's Taming Your Triggers workshop has had a great impact on me. And I feel really privileged to have been a peer coach in some of the workshops in the past year. So one thing very exciting that happened in September is that I had the opportunity to meet Jen and her family as part of Jen's book tour here in Vancouver. And so it was so delightful and yet a little bit surreal because you know, this person I always see online and listen to her in my ear for like when I'm washing the dishes, but here she is in front of me or beside me or something like that. So it was kind of surreal that way. And yeah, it was a real pleasure for me to meet Jen and Alvin and Carys was just wonderful. And yeah, I'm so excited for what's going to happen.

Alvin: 04:38

I will say that I know I know Iris not through anything except for editing like testimonial videos and the occasional like, I don't know call that I interrupt. But I must say that people need to get to know Iris in person. Because Iris in person that I know and met is exponentially, I mean not to take away from your video persona, oh, but but your actual persona is, like incredible. There was awesome and easier.

Iris: 05:11

Yeah. Thanks, Alvin. I think you're saying that so that we will go easy on you. And Corrine. How about you?

Corrine: 05:22

Yes. I'm Corrine. I'm a mama of a two year old and I live in Portland, Oregon with my family. And I found Your Parenting Mojo through Courtney Dern of Beach Street Parenting. She's a local play group leader. And it's an awesome little community we have here. I'm so grateful for it. And also grateful that I find resources like Your Parenting Mojo through that same group. And I recently attended one of Jen's workshops during the book tour here in Portland, and I got to chat with Alvin, which was really, really nice. And I actually gleaned some good parenting insights from Alvin, in our brief chat.

Alvin: 06:08

It bleeds over.

Corrine: 06:09

I really, I was like, I gotta tell my husband and I just feel like you had some great thoughts. And so I'm excited for today's conversation, because we'll get to hear a lot more.

Iris: 06:20

I think it's, um, this is a very good place to start, your love story with Jen. But I will set this up Alvin so that you know, it's it's not your usual story. So for a moment, imagine that I'm a film producer. And you're a script writer. And you want to give me the the busy film producer, an elevator pitch of the Jen-Alvin love story. So what would that elevator pitch sound like?

Alvin: 06:54

Yeah, that's definitely inappropriate workplace relationship. And that's definitely she went after me. Okay, it was not the role reversal. So we met at an ad agency. That's a whole another story. But I'll try to keep it elevated since she's a synced. Oh, yeah. elevator pitch. Yeah. inappropriate work place.

Iris: 07:17

Yeah. And she asked you out.

Alvin: 07:20

Yeah. So I don't know how to tell I'm trying to figure out it tells us as succinctly as possible. But how old were we a while ago, we're a bit busy before Carys. We both used to work for an ad agency. It was at a time when I sort of ping pong between coasts between New York a California. And I had come back after the .com bust. And got roped back into advertising. And at Humana I'm stumbling now I can't, I can't figure out until the let's restart.

Alvin: 07:54

The elevator pitches what gets me. I think checker Murray's biker, I think, I think inappropriate workplace relationship. And then I think when we used to meet new people, as a couple, she would introduce herself (before Your Parenting Mojo) as someone who saves the world, and I sell people shit they don't need. And that's how we're like at the holiday parties. That's like, Hey, I'm Alvin. Yeah.

Jen Lumanlan: 08:24

Well, it was true. Yeah.

Alvin: 08:27

But yeah, so to answer your question, I'd say inappropriate workplace relationship, where she actually went after me. It wasn't the traditional,

Jen Lumanlan: 08:38

Patriarchal

Alvin: 08:39

Patriarchal movie script. Yeah, you could edit that or keep that in or whatever. But I used to be a middle middle manager, submittal manager person. I was it was probably. I was young. We were both young. But she was, like, when I met her, I didn't know if she was 18 or 21. Or like, we like I had no idea. She worked for the general manager of the entire ad agency. Who was basically my boss's boss.

Iris: 09:14

Okay.

Alvin: 09:14

And the boss's boss's boss's boss, like everyone else. Shed a little fruit stand like in her cubicle, which was also kind of bizarre. Like I've never seen anyone eat so much fruit. And she used to come into work with like, basically, a hiking backpack. And like, so I didn't know she was coming from high school or watch. Or if she was an intern, or like, I had no idea. All I know is she was like a witty kind of British person who worked for basically the president of the company. And I occasionally saw the president of the company when my boss asked me to get anything coordinated, get resources, any high level stuff that she needed my help, and when I would, she was basically the gateway to the high powered person. And that's how we sort of got to know each other.

Alvin: 10:09

And I think part of that story is also, the time we met, I was a little bit, I'd taken some time off after 9/11. And now, this is a result of her. I actually can grow my hair long. But she prefers it clean, shaven. It's cheap. And that it saves a lot of money, which is helpful, given the last several years of growing Your Parenting Mojo. But when we met, I had I don't know if this is culturally appropriate. But I look like a Japanese Rockstar with long, bleached hair and long sideburns.

Jen Lumanlan: 10:45

We'll try to find a picture to put on the episode.

Iris: 10:48

Yes, yeah.

Alvin: 10:49

Kinda like a Japanimation character.

Iris: 10:51

Right.

Alvin: 10:51

And she was not into party animals. But I wasn't a party animal. And I'm just

Iris: 10:55

Look like one.

Alvin: 10:56

I was finding myself during this transitionary phase. But then my boss was another lovely person who I think Iris would love to meet this woman Caroline, very charismatic. Baby, she is she likes to tell a different story. Caroline saw a lot of potential in me and was wondering what was up with my hair. And I was like, you know, I just told her what was up. And she kind of suggested that if I wanted to move up in the company that maybe I could present myself in a different way. Caroline is a straight shooter. I love her. And I'm like, I don't care. I tried to get out of advertising. I'm here.

Jen Lumanlan: 11:38

This is the least elevator pitch I've...

Alvin: 11:40

Ah, anyways, I shaved my head. And all of a sudden, on her side it was off.

Iris: 11:47

Ah, okay.

Alvin: 11:49

And, and the funny thing was, after a couple of cross inter, you know, meetings in the hallways, I feel like she made a what I thought was like, a very curious comment when she came by my my office cubicle thing, where I wasn't sure like, I was thinking to myself, what, what was the interaction? So I quickly, which I often do, I go off of my gut, versus my brain. And I just open up an email window and email her really quickly. Something like, like, what is up? Like, basically, she was giving me attitude, and I don't know where it's coming from. So I emailed her like, dude, what's up? She replies back something like, I don't know, maybe this because I think you're funny. Maybe a thing is blah, blah, blah. Or maybe it's because I think you're cute. Come like, Whoa. Did she just email me that? But again, I didn't think I just thought this would be, that's interesting. I'm going to be super funny and give her heart attack right back. And I just went I'm reporting you to HR, send. That's, I mean, I let her sweat it for a little for probably 45 seconds. And I think I will either went over to our cubicle or said just kidding, or something. And that became the least productive day probably office like, you know, known to mankind. And before I know it, I was in denial the whole time. Before I know it, we're playing making plans to meet up after work. She asked me to go on a hike. I'm thinking I must have been, I don't know how old it is, but I was thinking like, Okay, we're gonna go for a casual walk, go get a coffee or something. And she forgetting the her backpack and her hiking boots when she goes to work. Then she was like, Okay, I'll pick you up at like seven or six or five in the morning. I'm like, why? Who is this person? I was thinking more like noon. But it was like the longest first non-date that I could think of. I made her watch Braveheart. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. That was the beginning of the end.

Corrine: 13:57

So you went on a hike and watched Braveheart in one...

Jen Lumanlan: 14:03

And went out for Indian food, which I paid for, by the way.

Alvin: 14:06

That's a whole another thing. I was so tired. Bike was like a not six or nine mile hike in point, right.

Jen Lumanlan: 14:13

Six miles with like, nothing.

Alvin: 14:14

I was like, nine miles. It was a long day. Yeah, we went up for Indian food somehow. And they are so this is for, I mean, people will suddenly...

Jen Lumanlan: 14:24

Realize they have like 50 other questions.

Alvin: 14:27

For people listening I mean, everyone's probably for those of you who are single parents and, and parenting, whatever looking for a partner, Jen's way of guaranteeing a second date is to steal the check and to pay for it. So that then I feel compelled to ask her on a second date. And that's what happened.

Iris: 14:47

Well, Jen, I think that's a very good strategy and like woman power. Yeah, right. Yeah, Alvin, that elevator pitch, the building was very very tall but well, the film producer is still listening. And the tagline under the title of the movie will be like something like "biker marries hiker "or something like that.

Alvin: 15:12

That was the theme to our wedding. Yeah. So I was a big biker, and she's a hiker. Yeah.

Iris: 15:18

So Alvin, I'm, I'm curious. So you mentioned some qualities of Jen that, you know, made her, like, you know, made you curious about her? What other qualities of Jen that really drew you to her?

Alvin: 15:31

Mm hmm. Sure. No, I think, I don't know if it's Courtney, or some other friends of ours. I think we're attracted to each other. Like, because of like, some, we're very different, I think, I guess is what I'm trying to say. In many ways, we're very different. But in many ways, we're also very the same. And it's interesting over time, we sort of converge in a way that I never would have anticipated. If that makes any sense. I can elaborate on that. But I think I saw I've always seen someone who's very honest and genuine, and wearing things on her sleeve. And she will also, I guess I was also curious. And when we first met, drawn by like, who is this person? Partially because she didn't let preconceived, I guess ideas get in the way of things she wanted to do or accomplish, right? And I think Your Parenting Mojo, the book, there's, like, literally proof of stuff that she's done, that many people wouldn't think to do, because of established cultural norms, that I think stuff like, at the very beginning, were like, you'd show up with a hardcore backpack and the fruit stand at her desk or like, be the one to pursue me and then go from like, oh, laid back date to be like, Okay, we're gonna pick up at nine and the end at midnight, and we're gonna hike and go out to dinner. And like, what I made her watch Braveheart, but to like, you know, she, I don't know if listeners know or not know, don't know, when Carys was eight, eight weeks, eight or 10 weeks, six weeks old, Jen and Carys hiked the tour to Mont Blanc. Right. And by the time Carys was two years old, she had been on 24 flights. And they hiked all over the place, you know, in Ireland and Wales, all across the US. So what person in the right mind would take an infant hiking in the Alps? Right, or think that anything except for that's insane. And she did it. And she's done it. So I've always been sort of intrigued and half scared, probably buy these things, but more intrigued. And now here we are, with Harris, who's nine years old. We're homeschooling. And again, that's another one of those things where my background is very traditional, right? First generation Filipino, immigrant parents born in New Jersey, pop down parenting, study well, become a doctor-type thing. So when she first mentioned, like the homeschooling and a lot of these ideas, that were the very beginnings to the podcast, I had a very strong knee jerk reaction after time. And I think over the course of time, I've kept going, leaning closer and closer in and things have converged, because they've been effective. And I've gotten a deeper understanding and managed to be more self-aware, as well as aware of my surroundings in terms of the cultural, the Filipino stuff, right? The traditional stuff, that patriarchal type stuff.

Alvin: 19:04

Because I think like a lot of these are buzzwords, but when it comes down to like the everyday stuff, and we like, start to question it, and ask why, it makes more sense once you get past that, like, well, everything my, my parents, my own parents taught me. I'm sort of fighting in certain certain circumstances, right? Like the idea of having to wear shears all the time, or having to put a sweater on when you go outside. Even though you're not cool with it just because I have a lot of just because stuff because I grew up in with Filipino parents first generation who really cared about my safety who moved from the Philippines for successful life for me, and you know, thanks to them. I could think bigger now, but they were very concerned about basic needs back then.

Iris: 19:53

Yeah, your answer to that question makes me think of many different directions. And I'm thinking, Corinne, that would you like, we will go with the flow here? And would you like to jump to the next part? And I will find a way for the other questions that is here in our in our list.

Corrine: 20:14

Yeah that I was thinking the same, you started to touch on some questions that we wanted to ask you about your experience growing up. So yeah, to start, could you tell us what your childhood was like and how your family interactions were growing up? You mentioned it more of a traditional parenting style, your parents being more focused on basic needs, and that thing different than where you're at today? So can you share a little bit more about that? Yeah.

Alvin: 20:42

So I grew up in New Jersey, my parents came from the Philippines, my mother's a nurse. And I guess some 50 years ago, she was recruited out of nursing school, to come to New Jersey with a bunch of, you know, her colleagues and stuff. So they were new to America, finding their own way. And I think, in general, like, I grew up in a very safe, loving environment. It's interesting to think back to like that time and see how it impacts us. Right? Like, I don't think we really realize how much of an effect it has on us both good and bad. I think we get set in our ways. And as we have children, we start to re we start to think about how some of our knee jerk reactions are struggles, like what's happening with our own children. And as we reexamine that, we find that we were parented as an impact on and I think, for me, like, my parents, were so loving. And my house was so safe.

Alvin: 21:51

But part of the challenge was, the tools that they had and the circumstances in which they came from the Philippines, their focus was on that. Right. So making me feel safe, making me feel loved. Like, there is no, like, arguing that I am who I am because of that, like, I'm so confident, I feel very strong when I have a point of view. I feel very protective, even though that might not translate to how people want me to help them or treat them or might be might not be the best way to help people. But the the thing that I think this probably is culturally, across a lot of like Asian household, maybe Spanish and Mexican households where it's like a really tight, more tight knit, like family orientation versus nuclear family, but like communication wasn't big, and feelings wasn't big. It was the more traditional role of like, respect your elders, right? The idea that where you are in the family structure is more traditional and patriarchal. And the fact that it doesn't really matter if you're a kid, you're gonna listen to me because I'm older. You're gonna respect you know, Uncle and Auntie Tita,Tito, because they're older, you know, they have this thing in the Filipino culture where you like, bow down and kiss their hand and stuff which was pretty funny because I think when I was younger, I initially did it. But pretty early on, I'm like, I'm not doing my parents, like, come on Alvin, I'm like, no, no. So other families in our "barkada", which is like family circles in the Philippines would be stuck, like, putting their hand on the whatever. And I'd be I just walk away.

Jen Lumanlan: 23:49

You are also the eldest boy.

Alvin: 23:50

I was also the eldest boy, I really had an impact. But I think, yeah, yeah, yes, I was born seeing girls. I've apologized to them multiple times and how I've treated them when I was a kid. I gave them tough love. But maybe it was a little too tough at times. But yeah, like, I guess in a nutshell, I came from very loving family, but it definitely has those pitfalls of like, traditional top down parenting, and where it's had an impact with us is not necessarily with me, per se. But when it I'm sure lots of parents out there struggle with this. It comes down to their their grandchild, right? It comes to Carys and their interactions with Carys and this idea of like, they really are confused at times that how we parent and why, why the things that we do, and they try to learn but they just it's so like, their systems are so wired, based on how they were parented. It doesn't compute and where I've run into a lot of challenges in the past is when I have this false sense of security that it's, it's actually seeping in and they're starting to get to understand it. Because even if they are understanding it for that moment in time, when the stress test comes, and the inflection point comes, they revert to how they were parented, and the how they parented me. And I think it has caused, like major disruption and, and challenges in the past.

Alvin: 25:21

But I've sort of come full circle myself in realizing that they're not going to change. And they have limited time left. And I'll do my I will try to do our best to continue to communicate and sort of express why we do what we do. But I think they're also starting to see like as Carys gets older, like, you know, they still have questions, stuff like the homeschooling type stuff, but Carys is certainly growing up to be on our say this, she's herself, she is herself. She is has an unorthodox child, but like she's the fullest version of she is the false version of herself. Like, she has a voice, she has feelings. She thinks in ways that most nine year olds probably don't think. She questioned things that most nine year olds probably don't think of because of the structures around, like, normal stuff. I can't wait to talk to Carys when she's like older, older and be like, what do you think? I'll do it? It'll probably be like, you messed me up so badly. All I wanted to do (unintelligible).

Corrine: 26:35

Yeah, I appreciate that. I, we have my parents living with us. So we have an intergenerational household. And yeah, the the grandparents have so much to offer, right, and, like support and love for the grandchildren. And yet, there's differences that may not, we may not ever come together, because some of those things are very ingrained and, and it's just kind of a way of life. But there's a little meat in the middle every once in a while we have good those good moments too. So yeah, I really appreciate that. I know, I'm sure, almost every listener has the same, same kind of challenge from time to time.

Alvin: 27:17

I think what they have learned, especially as a core over the course of like the book tour, and the workshops that we conducted over the last three months where she conducted and I recorded and filmed and stuff is, which helped for how I wrap my own head around my relationship with my own parents and how they grandparent because again, everyone has needs, right, like core basic needs. And when we get these conflicts, I'm realizing now more than ever, that, you know, my parents have a need to be involved or have this role in the life of my daughter. And the strategies are how they're fulfilling that need, that's where we get hung up on. And that's where they fall back on like the past. So if they have a need for a relationship, their idea of a relationship has topped out. Right is like the grandparent telling and teaching the kid not having a conversation and asking and really listening to the kid. Right? It's more of a linear one way thing. So when it doesn't go that way, that's when problems have arisen. But what I need to do, what I need to remind myself of is my parents or the grandparents are acting in a way and behaving in a way that is familiar to them, out of that coordinate. When Granpa wants to interact and play with Carys, he doesn't see or think about like, necessarily two-way interaction or cooling threads to get Carys curious and to like teacher in a way that is child-led learning for example, right? He goes to I want I have this need for connection with my granddaughter based on my toolbox. That means I need to teach her something. Right? Draw your letters, your alphabet like this. And he thinks that if Carys is not engaged, or not drawing things properly, he's failing as a grandparent. So it's this narrative in his own head. That makes him double down or den questions. Why is she not going to school? Why are you guys parenting this way? She can't even spell her name. All based on his need for connection with our daughter. Right?

Alvin: 29:51

So the needs, the coordinates are there and pure. And I think when we focus on that stuff, we have a greater sense of empathy, everybody, right? What's Carys's need in that moment? Her need with is the same as grandpa's need. She has a need for connection with her with grandpa. So they have the same needs, but her need for joy, for need for autonomy, her need for like, authenticity isn't lining up with grandpa's linear way of thinking. Elders know best. I know best. This kid is not listening to me. I want to connect with this kid. But I don't have the tools to connect with this kit. So I'm done. Because Jen and Alvin have no idea what they're doing. And, and then it gets like this.

Alvin: 30:44

So now at least, I'm better equipped to understand like, it's still coming from a place for from of love. But again, as I mentioned, communication wasn't a strong point in our family growing up, or a value thing. It was like, I'm older you listen. So now moving forward, I think we're better equipped to spend time together. Because at least I know, and can be better equipped to think about needs. So if there's any stuff that comes up, I like I really kind of think about, okay, what's going on? What's what's underneath all this? Because on the surface, it's strategies and it's it's just like, the narrative that either I have in my head, Carys has in her, in her head or grandpa or grandma, or having their heads. It is it's not necessarily everyone's reality.

Corrine: 31:36

Now, let's switch gears and hear a bit about how Jen's work has influenced you both. We received a question about how Jen's work affected her parenting. So let's listen to that recording from Jody.

Jody: 31:49

Hi, Jen and Alvin. Congratulations on 200 episodes. Thank you for the 1000s of hours of research and preparation that has gone into the podcast. It has really helped me many, many times in my parenting journey. I look forward to the next 200 episodes. So my question for Alvin is this: Could you describe what Jen was like before she even started to research into parenting compared to how she is now? What are some of the major shifts that you saw in her? And what aspects of her that have remained constant over the years?

Alvin: 32:22

That's an interesting question. No, no, I don't think so. Jen is still the same person. Like, I don't think anything's really changed, except for she's got more tools. Like I think she's very, she's always been a very research-oriented person. And not like her thirst for knowledge and curiosity for knowledge has always been there. But I guess, the podcast, I don't know if he knew, like through a question, by the way, but I don't know if he knew that podcast was sort of born out of the simple need. The deeds that you had as a parent, to get answers to our parents, our own parenting struggles. And I think, never connected for you until Chona's kid in our house, and I think listeners know about the story.

Jen Lumanlan: 33:19

It's been a while listening to him.

Alvin: 33:20

I think, you know, we before Carys, we had some friends come over with their child. And we have a kind of a long hallway, connecting our bedrooms to the main living area. Jack, Jack started running down the hallway. Janna, said Jack, would you please come here, or stop or something like that in a nice, like voice, right? And the kid maybe less than two years old, like, stop dead on his tracks, and walk back. And I didn't think anything of it, but Jen was like, how did you do that? Like, what? And that's where she learned about Respectful Infant Educator, right?

Jen Lumanlan: 34:05

RIE. Research has been for educators. Resources for educators.

Alvin: 34:10

And it's basically sit down, sit her down this path of like, okay, there are tools out there. I just don't know of that. And she went from initially having in her wish it was the blog. You had a blog, around parenting, hiking and making stuff, which I think there might be an article still out there on her raw hike with Carys put it on block off of only planet.

Jen Lumanlan: 34:35

And sister and sister company like established a blog, we can link to it.

Alvin: 34:40

In any case, to answer the question, I think Jen's always been the same. You know, she believes what she believes in, and she's not like one of those people who says something and doesn't act, or her values don't come through and what she does and says. She's definitely not a hypocrite. She likes to live what she believes. And I think as the podcast grew and evolved, the toolbox just grew and evolved. Everything leading up into this point was just an organic journey. And I think it presents itself that way. I think both Jen and I, often move when trying to figure out the business aspect, or like how we want to continue evolving Your Parenting Mojo, and now that it's tied to our, like, our livelihood, livelihoods, looking back, it's like, my old world was advertising and marketing and businesses, I look back and I sort of cringe. Because I'm like, it feels all over the place, or it feels like we're not strategic. But I think that's part of because it just evolved organically. Like Jen, Jen's goal was never to build this community or platform to help parents in a way that, you know, was measured in any way. She just sort of did it to help herself. And then initially, like, if I'm helping myself, I should help others. And then as she started helping others, this was really the very core just wanting to help, even when we pivoted and started making this more of her livelihood. Jen's never want to think about okay, how is this as a business? What are these decisions mean? So that we can put food on the table? It's been like, Iris needs my help. The membership needs my help. Right? People who can't afford to pay need my help. So yeah, it's, it's basically been the same. It's just like an evolution and more tools and greater maturity as we have these tools at our disposal.

Jen Lumanlan: 36:56

I'm autistic now I wasn't before.

Alvin: 36:58

It makes a lot more sense. But you're always testing until now.

Jen Lumanlan: 37:03

Yeah, I would check.

Alvin: 37:05

Yeah. It makes sense. So yeah, I used to, I used to want to print t shirts for her that said 'Hardcore," just because when she ever she wanted to do something like she wanted to do it, she didn't want to mess around, which most of the time I'm like, "Yes." And some of the time I'm like, "No way. Oh my god." So.

Corrine: 37:28

Then no regrets with Your Parenting Mojo, like glad that that that was done hardcore?

Alvin: 37:33

For me or her?

Corrine: 37:33

For you.

Alvin: 37:35

Oh, man, that's a difficult question. I think the greatest part of Your Parenting Mojo is Jen founder calling prior to this. She used to do corporate environmental strategy and sustainability consulting. So she's always cared about the environment in the world. So it's like a natural progression that we have this little human that had that caring about the world now has an even greater meaning because our daughter is going to be in the world longer than we'll be in hopefully, right. But then Your Parenting Mojo has turned into this community. And it's basically our livelihoods. And when the two intersect, as I'm finding out with photography, in my own journey, I used to, I used to have a day job. But I also am a photographer. But there's this intersection now like, as I mentioned, with Your Parenting Mojo, Jen wants to just genuinely help. If we ever moved the money aspect or the financial aspect, it wouldn't change what she would like to do.

Alvin: 38:39

But it makes it a pressure cooker at times, because it's how we feed ourselves now. For me, photography is one of those things where like, my passion for photography was reignited my last full time position, working for a small hybrid agency creative production company. But I sort of jumped in to photography, because I saw it as an art form. And I love doing it. Like when I used to shoot film as a kid. But now part of that journey is realizing if I'm turning it into a business, there are certain considerations that I didn't have to worry about when it was just a hobby. So I think Your Parenting Mojo is not a hobby. But it's more than a business. I think, I think it's essentially Jen's legacy.

Alvin: 39:32

I firmly believe it's especially coming off of the book tour, and meeting parents. It's funny. So I gotta tell this one sidebar story, as are like, I think we're in Colorado, and I'm meeting parents and I'm filming and I'm introducing myself, and we're meeting we're having I'm talking about the paddle events coming up and how we have, like founder of Moms Against Racism, Canada coming, and we have someone in Vancouver who spent decades as an activist and beating the, you know, Canadian government. Then they're listening to me and they're like, hold on, Alvin. You know, Jen's kind of a big deal, right? Ah, I guess. So. But no, but that's why we're saying like, I believe this is just because I'm in it right? There's such a huge hole in the parenting space, where we don't even know what we don't know. And I think most parents can agree that like, you don't know what it's like to be a parent until you're in it. And like, holy crap, when you're in it, even when things are going well, you're like, what did I get myself into? What the heck's going on? And then in the blink of an eye, it's like nine years later, and you're like, what the 'beep' right? And I think time is precious. I had my website Every Day Is Your Birthday so I'm like, definitely seize the moment. And time is precious. But there's so much like, stuff that happens on the day to day, and stresses and you see it on your face, you see it on your friends' faces, you feel it. And people like to say like, there's this moments of joy that makes it all worthwhile. But no one tells you you don't have to go through the hell. Right? Like we just go through the hell thinking, it's part of the course, when most of the hell is self-inflicted.

Alvin: 41:25

I would say a lot of the hell is self inflicted, but based on culture, based on stuff that we just don't know any better. So I think there's so many tools that I've learned that I initially had knee jerk reactions to, that I've learned actually make life a lot easier. And I think those knee jerk reactions earlier on, right like to these tools, as even generals, learning about these tools, I'm like, Oh, ha, whatever. What is that mumbo jumbo? I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing. And I'm realizing that I have a good relationship with Carys. I never had a bad relationship with her. But Jen had a relationship with her that I was like, Okay. Maybe those tools or those strategies that Jen is using has a greater impact. Maybe what I thought was benign, is actually having a negative effect. And it could be like, basically, I realized one day that, well, my connection with Carys was good. It can be better and it should be better. So why am I why am I like doing Groundhog Day and using the same stuff? So I think summit backup I think Your Parenting Mojo, and what Jen's doing is important special. And I think that when all sudden done, she's gonna have a legacy that even though, you know, we might have some stresses when it comes to it as a business and supporting us, as we both are working a lot around the clock, like we just got off the book tour, which was very intense and a lot of time and energy, and then we got COVID and all this other stuff, but I think it's going to be all worthwhile. And it's, it's bigger than us. I firmly believe it's bigger than us. So it deserves the time and energy we put into it.

Corrine: 43:19

Mm hmm. Well, that was really beautiful. We're all grateful for Jen's work, and Alvin how you are a part of it. And I know it means a lot to do work that is meaningful. So I'm really glad that you have that in your life. Jen, we have some questions. You mentioned your relationship with Carys. We have some questions about being a father to Carys. First, what are some ways that Carys is different from you and Jen that you find interesting?

Alvin: 43:51

Different?

Jen Lumanlan: 43:53

She likes to be naked all the time. And you're like, I'm freezing.

Alvin: 43:57

Yeah, like I don't know what it is, I'm getting all in like my circulation isn't as good or something like and I'm definitely this year in particular, I just feel cold all the time. And she don't yeah, she Carys doesn't like shoes. She loves going on bare feet. And when and if she didn't have to wear clothes, she just wouldn't wear clothes. It doesn't care. It doesn't matter temperature. I kind of like clothes. Like clothes, only kind of like one of those. But I think when I look at Carys I don't necessarily see how she's different than both of us. I see how she's the same as both of us. But like, you know, the mash up. But I love it when she's more like me than Jen. It's like, awesome.

Jen Lumanlan: 44:46

For example?

Alvin: 44:49

For example, she likes dance, music, and house music. They put her to sleep puts her to sleep in the car.

Jen Lumanlan: 44:58

I'm tired. Can you put some house music on so I can take a nap

Alvin: 45:06

She loves loud music. I think she's definitely a lot more. Not that you're not charismatic. But she's, I think she picks up the same energy from my side of the family.

Jen Lumanlan: 45:21

Carys is better with people than I am.

Alvin: 45:23

Yeah, yeah. But she's more animated. She's a lot. You're not. Are you animated?

Jen Lumanlan: 45:30

Not necessarily.

Alvin: 45:31

No, no. I'm quite can be animated. My grandma sent him for that as loud sort of charts. Once she's warmed up, she's, you know, no one would ever accuse you of being the life of the party.

Jen Lumanlan: 45:47

Very true.

Alvin: 45:49

I could see Carys as being the life of the party.

Jen Lumanlan: 45:52

When she gets warmed up.

Alvin: 45:53

Yeah. I'm not saying I could be the life party, but I'm greater chance maybe Carys has the best chance for three months. So but in get Carys obviously has a curiosity of Jen. They're always tinkering. But yeah, it's I mean, I think any parent can attest to this, like seeing your kids and then seeing a part of you and then and seeing part of your partner in them. It's like an amazing joy I think to me.

Corrine: 46:20

Yeah, thank you, Alvin. That's amazing to hear about Carys, especially as someone with a younger child, just seeing her blossom into herself sounds really wonderful. So we received a similar question from CG about Jen's work, but this one focuses on how it is impacted out. And so let's take a listen.

CG: 46:44

Hi, Jen. Hi, Alvin, thank you so much for this opportunity to ask you a question. Mine is, like many parents challenged with inviting their spouses to join them on this parenting journey with YPM practices, I am wondering if there might be something in your experience that may be informative. In the past 10 years since Jen embarked on her parenting journey together on your parenting journey together, what would you say has shifted for you the most as a parent? As a person? Thank you.

Alvin: 47:14

That's a good question. I mean, I think sort of like, as you'd mentioned, was talking about before coming from safe, very stable, loving family, I never thought to question my own parenting style, and approach. And I never thought that I never stressed out or worried that I'd be doing something wrong.

Alvin: 47:14

Whereas I thought I would be a terrible parent, like I was 100% convinced that I was going to be the worst parent in the world. Yeah.

Alvin: 47:48

So I think, like with anything, I have a certain level of confidence that, like, I'm not afraid of not knowing. So I've never been, I've always been, you know, secure and confident that I could figure it out. I worked in advertising, where getting laid off is just part of the course shifting jobs and agencies multiple times over. And I think I remember the first time I either quit or got laid off, it wasn't fear, it was like excitement that, you know, I was flooded with, I'm like, Okay, and how wise. And I think with parenting, I always just felt like I would figure it out. But as you make that transition of like, figuring out to like, the kid not knowing exactly what you're hoping for them to do. I think through that, where those frustrations or those experiences, again, you can either keep repeating and beating yourself, you know, against the wall over and over. Or you can look at the situation and and ask yourself, am I really doing the best job in this situation? And again, it wasn't anything, I'll think particular. But when I saw, like, Jen having a different kind of relationship with Carys, or like, a level of relationship with Carys that I didn't have in terms of trust and communication, it made me think about whether or not some of these pain points in terms of what we thought were the right approaches for parenting, if I was maybe wrong, right, or, or maybe I wasn't pursuing things that weren't as productive. So maybe they were benign in the short term, but do they have longer term implications? Long.

Jen Lumanlan: 49:50

Can you give an example for parents?

Alvin: 49:54

I think it's like you know the need of always telling or guiding someone in particular, or children, versus holding space for them, right? Actually, I actually I do have a good one. It's this notion of repair. Right? This idea of like, we're not, we're not perfect parents. But what's most important is our relationship with our children and the trust so that when something goes wrong, for example, I'm having a bad day, I'm feeling really tired. I'm feeling stressed. Carys knows something that might be a little, like, loud, or, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to judge. But if if she does something that irritates me, but it's perfectly normal. And I think one day I like kind of was a little too firm with her. You know, maybe I yelled at her. And she got upset, right? So in that instance, I almost immediately knew that it wasn't her. It was me that it was my need for, you know, again, needs her need for joy is what came up against my need for peace, and my need for quiet, my need for calm. And her need for joy and being loud irritated me because I was in this headspace. And I yelled at her. I told her to be quiet in a wave, firm voice. And she went obviously off running to mom or something. Right? So when she was younger, what I realized at that time was, it was me. So first and foremost, I realized it wasn't me. It was my needs. It wasn't my daughter. And then it also realized that I can fix this. And I could apologize to my daughter and apologize in a way that says, Hey, I am sorry that I yelled at you or I rose my voice too loud, or whatever it was right? I want you to know, it wasn't your fault. I did that because I'm really tired and feeling sick. I have a headache. And I realized all you really wanted to do was to play with me, or to show me your boy, show me something. So it wasn't about you is about me. And again, I want you to know that I'm sorry. So the first time I did that, she basically said, I know and hugged me. Right? Like was it was an unexpected response. She basically accepted the apology, hugged me. And then everything was back to sort of normal. But the thing is, it was a new normal because what I didn't anticipate was that repair or that interaction all of a sudden, she looked at me in a different way moving forward. She saw I guess she saw me not that she was feeling not safe with me or not that she was feeling maybe not respected by me, but the level again of safeness, level of respect level of communication, just we broke through the ceiling. So all of a sudden, after that I noticed my relationship with Carys was like, on a whole different level because I basically owned up to, like, my part in a difficult interaction. And I guess she knew that if that were to happen again, that it might that I would own it again, which is different from like, me just being the authority telling her how she should feel or how she should act. Right. So I think it's our it's interesting, because over the course of like the last four years, we've gone through COVID and we've gone through hell right as, as a as a population as a world, and I think irony through that is that coincided with a time period where I left my advertising, my safe, like corporate job to jump into photography. Jen, you know, got laid off from her novice COVID hit and fasttrack Your Parenting Mojo full time. So all of a sudden, we went from two decent, well paying jobs to responsible for our whole income, as the world was basically ending and all the stuff in those four years, our greatest pain points and stresses was never about Carys, like parents would probably want to kill me for saying this, our friends will definitely want to kill me for saying this. But like, Carys was never the primary like headache. What are we going to do with her tomorrow? What's the curriculum we're gonna have for her? And we homeschooled. It was always like, what are we doing on Your Parenting Mojo? How are we going to build this as a business? How are we going to build, get content? So we're actually helping parents is difficult period of time.

Alvin: 54:51

And Jen was working 18 hour days except for like the one or two hours she dedicated towards focused Carys time for like 18 months straight with one day off a month. So like, if you can imagine the last, you know, the 18 months of when COVID hit, that was Jen's basically rinse and repeat. Wake up seven o'clock, log on, work on contact, support the members, figure out other stuff. All right playtime with Carys for an hour investigating, like stuff, go back. And she'd do that until 10 o'clock at night and wake up the next morning. And I don't know, I was like, like free safety, spring time with Carys, supporting Jen in terms of stuff that needed to get done. But I can genuinely say like, again, that during the most stressful time period of all of our lives, with COVID, hitting our daughter was never like a major pain point. Like, I say that because I know like, I can imagine like the torture chamber that has COVID being locked up in the house with your kids. Like I empathize with that. And I actually empathize and struggled with seeing our own friends going through that. And you know, no one wants unsolicited parenting advice. But I definitely have sat there on more than one occasion, listening to my close friends, tell me how, you know, they wanted to punch themselves in the face. And they were having problems with their kids are challenges and stress with their partners, because they're not seeing eye to eye. And to me, it was like, we're not experiencing that.

Alvin: 56:37

And by the way, like, I know what you should be, or can be doing to help yourself. But I couldn't say anything because like, you don't want to do that. Like you just can't. So the tools, all of it, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say like, I adopted it from day one. Heck, no. Like, I fought it hard. Or I didn't even fight like, was like, that's nice. Right, I listened to podcasts. But you know, I didn't listen to every podcast, I would try to pick up on things that she was doing that fit within my idea of what how I wanted to parent. But I still even when we were stressed tested. I sort of like dipped a toe, but didn't go on. And I think this is where Jen and I differ a little bit, right? Like when she believes in something she like goes all in. And I'm like, and Jen inch out, and Jen inch out. So is there any dads listening out there? I think we're reprogram more in a job. But like, definitely consider some of these tools because I've learned firsthand. Like there's a lot of stuff that we can be doing to help ourselves versus like, stress ourselves.

Iris: 57:51

Carys is waiting.

Jen Lumanlan: 57:54

She is.

Iris: 57:56

So we've covered a lot of really fun stuff and really heartfelt stories from Alvin. And we Corrine and I have more questions. And we have listeners. We did not get the chance to ask the questions of the other listeners so but we ran out of time. We may have a part two, to get to know Alvin more and Jen more and just share our stories about the joys and pains of parenting. So thanks for joining us for this Ask Alvin Anything episodes. And again, congrats to Jen for the 200 plus episodes in the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. And yes, I think that's about all and it has been really fun. And I'm looking forward to the part two.

Corrine: 58:53

Thank you so much, Jen and Alvin and Iris. It's been great working with you on this. So thank you all and really excited to share this with the listener.

Iris: 59:03

Yes, yeah.

Jen Lumanlan: 59:06

Thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

Alvin: 59:07

We'll talk again soon.

Emma: 59:12

Hi, I'm Emma, and I'm listening from the UK. We know you have a lot of choices about where you get information about parenting, and we're honored that you've chosen us as we move toward a world in which everyone's lives and contributions are valued. If you'd like to help keep the show ad free, please do consider making a donation on the episode page that Jen just mentioned. Thanks again for listening to this episode of The Your Parenting Mojo podcast.