Shownotes
- The crucial difference between most traditional churches and missional communities.
- The real threats and fears that you may be experiencing as opposition.
- How Jesus was definitely in the “both/and” camp with a single focus.
- Ways to get started living as an example for others.
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Tangible Kingdom Primer by Hugh Halter & Matt Smay Get Caesar’s latest book: Bigger Gospel for FREE… Click here.
Transcripts
What are we supposed to do when we're desiring to live in a more missional way, but we don't have the support of our pastor and local church leadership?
Caesar Kalinowski:Heath and I hear this all the time from listeners of the show.
Caesar Kalinowski:They say, I'd love to start a missional community, but the church we go to, they just don't get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they'll say something like, I would really love to live the way that you and he talk about on the show, but my pastor doesn't see it as something that's sustainable.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, we feel your pain and we want to say there is hope.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't give up, but do get started.
Heath Hollensbe:The Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Heath Hollensbe:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Heath Hollensbe:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Heath Hollensbe:And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey brother, what a good time at the ol rugby game yesterday.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's your new favorite sport, right?
Heath Hollensbe:It's, it's, I have a growing appreciation for it.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:The Seattle Seawolves.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a little confusing at first, right?
Heath Hollensbe:Scrimming and scramming and scrum, scrumming, scrum and ruck, scrum and rucking.
Heath Hollensbe:I know, and I'm going to offend some of our listeners here, sorry.
Heath Hollensbe:I'm going to do this to the soccer players, people that are way into soccer.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, like rugby has nonstop clock, like soccer, so the game just goes on.
Heath Hollensbe:It's like life, right?
Heath Hollensbe:It just keeps going.
Heath Hollensbe:Except there's a ton of scoring, you know, because the soccer game.
Heath Hollensbe:Big ol crazy soccer game ends in 1 0 or a tie, like what?
Heath Hollensbe:There's a lot of scoring in rugby, a lot of hits, no pads.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, I mean those
Heath Hollensbe:guys are, they are manly like warriors.
Heath Hollensbe:But, you
Caesar Kalinowski:know, there's like 30 percent uh, 30 percent less, no, 30 percent of the injuries compared to NFL.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like 70 percent less or something.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, I didn't know that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So anyway, has nothing to do with the topic today other than life goes on continually.
Caesar Kalinowski:The game of life stops and so does the mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:And sometimes you just get hit and knocked down.
Caesar Kalinowski:And unfortunately it might even be by your own leaders.
Heath Hollensbe:Sort of like the battle, right?
Heath Hollensbe:The scrum.
Heath Hollensbe:So there we go.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's pushing around.
Caesar Kalinowski:You got your head crammed up somewhere.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, I can't say that.
Heath Hollensbe:Okay.
Heath Hollensbe:So this is actually crazy.
Heath Hollensbe:Cause I.
Heath Hollensbe:One thing that does make me really sad and we hear about it a ton.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, almost like weekly
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, absolutely is people who listen to the show that go man.
Heath Hollensbe:I really love what you guys are talking about on the show I want to live that way, but My church just doesn't support that or we wanted to start something like that and our church kind of said no We need to finance Bible studies instead
Caesar Kalinowski:or they're scared of it or they see it as a fad
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:they just aren't fans of this missional community.
Caesar Kalinowski:They haven't gone deep enough to understand the difference Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe:so maybe we start by giving like a general fly overview of what separates like a typical American Institutional church model from what we talk about when we describe a missional community
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm just going to go ahead and I'm going to describe a couple thousand years of church history and reduce it down.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, well, I, I seriously, I have to just kind of give a bit of a knee jerk, but yeah, I think it will set the table.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a good, it's a good way to start.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, um, when we say a typical American, or I won't even say American, uh, typical traditional institutional church model.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to be much more Sunday focused.
Caesar Kalinowski:The idea is that the primary organizing structure of the church happens as the saints all come together for a worship service.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then perhaps some other things like discipleship and mission happen.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we send people out and we call them missionaries when they go overseas and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:When we describe a missional community, um, it is, and that could be a whole church, and I think all churches actually should be missional communities in a sense that, um, the mission, the only mission that we have as the church that Jesus has given us is to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we see that in, in, uh, In the Bible, the primary organizing structure of the church was always that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was an oikos.
Caesar Kalinowski:It was a small group of people who were family and close family members and the people you work with and your neighbors.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they lived together as a proclamation of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:And their, and their job was to proclaim the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski:Christ and his good news and make disciples of Jesus who made more disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was their lifestyle.
Caesar Kalinowski:It wasn't like, Hey, we'll meet once a week and that's our primary thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then we'll kind of live our own lives and see what happens.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's a big difference between a sort of Sunday focused, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm not saying it's, there's not good stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like the word is being preached, the gospel, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then a community or a church where the, the whole goal And I believe it's Jesus calling our life.
Caesar Kalinowski:The primary organizing structure is families on mission who make disciples who make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's from a spreading out and multiplicational way, it, there's, there's no comparison because your average person, as we know, is not going to reproduce what they see going on on Sunday.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And of course, we also know, unfortunately, it's less and less.
Caesar Kalinowski:successful and heart, you know, and more and more people are bailing out from that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So even from a pragmatic standpoint, smaller, lightweight communities and, and often still connected.
Caesar Kalinowski:to a more traditional church, which is awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but smaller, lightweight communities of families on mission together who are making disciples in their neighborhoods and in every little walk of life, that's, there is a huge difference.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if, if your focus is on attracting people to a service or a performance of some sort, And you think the goal is, we got to get people saved versus what Jesus says is, no, the kingdom has come, now walk in it and make disciples, help people move from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's a very big difference.
Caesar Kalinowski:So
Heath Hollensbe:when you're kind of assessing the question I just asked, do you see it as, an either or proposition, like either a church is Sunday service focused and more traditional, or they're missional community driven?
Heath Hollensbe:Is it both?
Heath Hollensbe:Is it one or the other?
Heath Hollensbe:What do you think?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think often it is sort of different.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's either or.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know, I know a lot of churches though that are really working hard these days to say, we believe it's good and right.
Caesar Kalinowski:to gather up the saints.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I do too.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I would vote for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I say, yes, we are smarter and wiser together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the giftings and sitting under the best teaching and the best prophecy and the best evangelists and the best teaching and all that is, and the most mature, we are more safe and mature together than we ever are apart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Unfortunately, you kind of got to pick your lead horse.
Caesar Kalinowski:Rare, it seems, and I want my listeners, they're going to get online here and they're going to tell me, rare does it seem though where I see churches that
Caesar Kalinowski:a dual A level focus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, I know churches that say, no, we started out as a mission community, and as that multiplies, we get together, and we do, we still gather up, we re congregate ourselves, but our primary mission and focus is still the day to day, the six days and 22 hours at making disciples, living like family, inviting people to God's table and making disciples in everyday rhythms of normal life.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's our focus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, and a couple hours a week or once a month or however they do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:We also love and find it very beneficial to pull together.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't think it has to be either or, but unfortunately, if all of your funding and, and focus and time and effort Goes into about an hour and a half, 90 minutes to 2 hours a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you have someone hired who's like the director of or the head of discipleship or the head of mission or some local mission or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:That means it's not everybody's responsibility.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's that person's.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's his job.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's her job to lead everybody.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, but wait a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:If Jesus said that we're to make disciples to make disciples, that's the only mission he gave the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's everybody's job.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the only job we have.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the elders.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the deacon's job.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's Sunday school's job.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, how do we make more disciples of Jesus who make more disciples of Jesus so that we're accomplishing the eternal purpose and that's filling the world with Jesus?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:That's what he's like.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:What he's
Caesar Kalinowski:like, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So long answer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Does it have to be either or?
Caesar Kalinowski:No, it doesn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, my, my good friends, uh, Hugh Halter, and Matt Smay, who wrote the Tangible Kingdom Primer.
Caesar Kalinowski:They also wrote a book a few years ago called And, the, the Gathered and Scattered Church, and the point of the book wasn't that it was either or, but it was like, can you, can you gather and scatter?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you scatter and gather?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, you get to.
Heath Hollensbe:So I think one of the things that you add to the conversation that's really helpful with this topic is that part of your story is you've actually worked as a pastor in a big church in the past.
Heath Hollensbe:So you're not just speaking as like this rogue missional community.
Caesar Kalinowski:And oddly enough, I was head of production.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I was the guy in charge of the thousands of seats and like, you know, like cue camera lasers and like, okay, lights up, lights up, no slower, lights up.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, you know, he's, when you did the announcements, the third service, you kind of went like 15 seconds long.
Caesar Kalinowski:If that, that up next week, you know, that was my job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jeez, look at
Heath Hollensbe:that.
Heath Hollensbe:Well, so you've, so you've worked in the big church and I think you can actually speak into like, maybe, why or what pastorally speaking.
Heath Hollensbe:Do you see as potential threats that are going on in a pastor's mind when they're confronted by people who are wanting to live in a way that might threaten, threaten the institution a little bit,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, it does a little.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I don't, I want to be careful is that I don't know the hearts of anyone.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, Please take with what I'm going to say as with a grain of salt also with love, but also from the experiences of many people have told me, this is my fear or this is my big challenge to this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so, uh, I will say this is an accurate answer, but it does not reflect everybody's heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, I want to be a little bit careful here.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, okay, first, first and foremost, biggest threat to this.
Caesar Kalinowski:is if I'm going to really start promoting a life on mission, everyday discipleship, people living this way, making disciples, learning how to speak the good news and everything, like that gospel, you know, then I am going to have to live this first.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm going to have to have elders that actually make disciples who make disciples and their lifestyle looks like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, we often say like, shouldn't.
Caesar Kalinowski:Shouldn't our staff and elders be the rockstar disciple makers of the church?
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're a young couple, you show up with a couple kids in tow to a church, and you go, hey, we just moved into the neighborhood, it's amazing, we're right, you know, across the street from you guys, we want to learn how to make disciples, and, you know, we're brand new Christians, and like, oh, You know, all you have to do is like hang out at their house a lot, you know, cause they just live this.
Caesar Kalinowski:They just live it 20 percent.
Caesar Kalinowski:In fact, maybe they'd let you even move in.
Caesar Kalinowski:They got us, you know, some spare bedrooms and they spend six months with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll know the gospel and you'll know how to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, that's not often the case.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's a fear.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I got an email today from a pastor, like currently pastoring goes, I have never been fully discipled in a way that's all of life and I'm pastoring and I need your advice on where do I start?
Caesar Kalinowski:So he was humble, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's, that's a bit, that's a great response.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's one of the fears.
Caesar Kalinowski:Another thing, um, one time I was teaching at a seminary and, uh, the head of, you know, like theology, who is his class, he was having me as a guest.
Caesar Kalinowski:He said to his, his class, he said, you know, it's all, you know, pastoral students, he said, everything that Caesar is going to teach you here coming up about Discipleship and the gospel and your identity and living on mission and make, you know, being an everyday disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:All, all that stuff is accurate.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's from scripture.
Caesar Kalinowski:I guarantee you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, and you'll ask yourself, well, why doesn't our church do more of this then?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he said that you, that your pastors don't have a problem with it theologically, but they have a problem with it financially.
Heath Hollensbe:Like working them out of a job.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or they go like, I don't get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:If everybody's meeting in homes, And really living life this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:When do you collect the tithe?
Caesar Kalinowski:And what if they stop coming to Sunday?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I've seen that happen, where people are like, You know, our people are really starting to live on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're starting to put their money into brokenness that they see.
Caesar Kalinowski:And not as much if it's showing up on Sunday.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we already, you know, in America live with what is it, 2.
Caesar Kalinowski:3, not 2.
Caesar Kalinowski:3, committed Christians make it to Sunday service like 2.
Caesar Kalinowski:3 times a month or something like that, 1.
Caesar Kalinowski:8 or I don't even know, you know, if anybody knows, but, but, uh, but you know, I can remember my own brother in law as he was starting to learn some of these ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's like, so wait a minute, you're telling me, like, if you were my pastor, you would advise probably better that me and my lost buddy next door, who I've been trying to get to know forever, who finally wants to go golfing with me,
Heath Hollensbe:but
Caesar Kalinowski:he can only do it Sunday mornings.
Caesar Kalinowski:I should probably skip the church service and take that guy golfing and love on him.
Heath Hollensbe:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:Exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:What else would
Caesar Kalinowski:you do?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like, you know, you can hear this message online or whatever, you know, it's like, so I think those are some of the fears is like, I'm going to have to live it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't know that I know how, and I'd say like, like, you know, like easy, be give yourself a break.
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause you, you can too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And.
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, God raises up the humble.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, nothing would be better for like the biggest of churches.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, but I have seen this, so I know some that have said, listen, I do not know how to live out the life that we're proclaiming that Jesus commanded that he lived.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're doing a lot of great programs here and we're seeing people come to faith in Christ.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hallelujah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I, I'm going on a journey of how to make disciples and live this life out.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so that means we're going to start backing off of some programming.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're going to start lessening a few things that are going on.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to start hearing my stories change because I'm going to be out there bumbling forward.
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you want to join me in this?
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm sorry.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm repenting and I'm apologizing.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I've seen it and it's a beautiful thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And those churches do great.
Heath Hollensbe:Really?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, one of the things I was thinking as you were just talking was about how even looking at the life of Jesus, it seems like He had this balance he had his time in the temple courts And then he also had this time on the way to different places There was a lot of parables of like and on his way here Yeah, Jesus was stopped by this person So most of his ministry occurred outside of the walls of the temple or religious maybe structured program But there was a fair balance of both.
Heath Hollensbe:So how would you reconcile?
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, one point he
Caesar Kalinowski:says like why do you arrest me?
Caesar Kalinowski:when I was at the temple teaching every day.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe:So that sounds like he was there.
Heath Hollensbe:There was
Caesar Kalinowski:a lot, you know, now, yeah, they didn't have like a full on service.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't think every day.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm not, you know, super scholar when it comes to that, but I, but I think like what you're saying, temple courts.
Caesar Kalinowski:So he was there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, first off, I'd say there's, there is some differences just to be fair to the text.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus was called to the Jewish people.
Caesar Kalinowski:and the lost sheep of Israel, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And pretty much all of the Jews were, were pretty devout.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm, you know, we don't know everybody's heart to every degree, obviously, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:But there is some evidence that, you know, especially the young men, they would have all memorized the Torah by the time they were 12 or 14, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:So the cultural difference there compared to our world where most people are not devout is very different.
Caesar Kalinowski:So Jesus spent a lot of time with the Jews.
Caesar Kalinowski:Where do Jews hang out?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, by the temple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Temple courts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, so let's go there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that was his calling and he, he, he knew it and so he's there, okay?
Caesar Kalinowski:But, as you said, most of what we see in the text though was kind of along the way and it was at meals and it was in normal rhythms of life, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So we see him grounding.
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, we don't have like, here's the 45 sermons or here's the hundred sermons that Jesus preached in the temple.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we have a lot of stuff of him on hillsides and at meals and along the road and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's what we work with.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, we see him grounding his teaching on the kingdom, meaning a present reality of, and who his father was in normal everyday life and language and story as they did life together.
Caesar Kalinowski:As you pointed out, temple life or work or meals.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of it was, for Jesus, was life on life, life in community, and life on his dad's mission.
Heath Hollensbe:That's good, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:I never
Heath Hollensbe:considered that before.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think we get to have it that way, too.
Caesar Kalinowski:But here's the thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you feel pretty clear that God's called you to make disciples of this person or this people group, and they're never coming to your church service, then I'd say, you need to be with them.
Caesar Kalinowski:You need to be where they're at when they're at.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right now, I'm coaching a guy named Tom.
Caesar Kalinowski:I won't out him too much here, but he has come across that, wait a minute, a lot of the people that are whole.
Caesar Kalinowski:Corporate church has said that they're just long to see come to know Christ and, and be discipled to walk in his ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, they're primarily only available on Sunday mornings, so they're doing the hard work right now of transitioning and it's hard work, but they're, and he's doing a stellar job transitioning to a Saturday night evening service for the existing family.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as to free up their Sundays for those who are on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's, it's not without its scars and scabs, you know what I'm just saying?
Caesar Kalinowski:But so far God's been gracious to them and it's happening.
Heath Hollensbe:You know, uh, one of the other questions we, we get quite a bit is what to do if, like, you're in a community that's already in this sort of model, you're trying to seek the lost out.
Caesar Kalinowski:You've got a Missional Community started, you're getting after it, you're meeting people, you have People of Peace, yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:You got a little bit of a vision, you're moving forward, but the pastor comes along and says, hey, we need you to either stop it or disband it because it doesn't fit, like, our model.
Heath Hollensbe:of how we do church, uh, or we don't have any official authority of the church, like, attending that missional community every week to report back as to what's going on.
Heath Hollensbe:How do we convince them that the best path forward, uh, is this model?
Heath Hollensbe:without being a complete nuisance to church leadership.
Heath Hollensbe:Is that possible?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I, I think that has more to do with that, those leaders and their polity.
Caesar Kalinowski:And if they, you know, like you said, you said a key yet kind of like a word that I went, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:When you said like, well, we don't have authority in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, we're not there to report back.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And I've heard that quite a bit.
Heath Hollensbe:Oh, I
Caesar Kalinowski:have too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's creepy.
Caesar Kalinowski:because we don't see anything like that where like, you know, Andrew and James and, you know, even Paul were having to like send back reports, you know, like they did, but it was always good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, Oh my God, the Greeks are coming to faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it wasn't like, did you hear what he said?
Caesar Kalinowski:So and so was not there.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:So and
Caesar Kalinowski:so had wine.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know they did.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, was it on a Sabbath?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yes, it was.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, exactly.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh my goodness.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that's a little bit weird, creepy.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I think a lot of that has to do with the leaders in place.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, is it our job to convince them?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think let your lives do the convincing.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll answer it two ways.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Live, live what God has put on your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Jesus has commanded, go and make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think if you, you know, I have people all the time saying like, well, you know, we've been wanting to do this for years, but our church doesn't support it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm like, are they forbidding you?
Caesar Kalinowski:From doing it.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:What do you mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Are they forbidding you from making disciples?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, no, of course not.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay Then then no one is saying you can't have people over and treat them like family You can't learn how to be a blessing, you know blessed to be a blessing out there with people That that you can't Find ways to, to, to share the word of God and, and, and see the gospel rooted in people's life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like nothing's stopping you from doing that as a community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like your time's all your own, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So do that and let your life and let the fruit of the gospel just emanating out of all of your lives.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let that be the witness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let it do the convincing.
Heath Hollensbe:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also, I will say this, and this will be the hardest word of all.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you are a church that forbids you gathering in certain ways, and you can't do this and you can't live on mission and you can't, you know, without some, like someone officially being attached, I would pray strongly and consider do we need to get into a church that actually takes the biblical command of go and make disciples seriously and looks at the whole of the New Testament and says, the primary organizing structure of the church was Holmes, was oikos.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's the word.
Caesar Kalinowski:When you see word church, it's oikos, which means family household of faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's so, so that's, that's a hard word.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I, I rarely ever counsel somebody, you should move on.
Caesar Kalinowski:I say, stay and be the difference, but if they're forbidding you, yeah, well, don't be a sneaky, you know, like don't do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't like a house divided.
Caesar Kalinowski:Won't stand.
Heath Hollensbe:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:Then.
Caesar Kalinowski:Honor them by saying, well, we're, we're gonna go ahead and, and we don't want to be, you know, we, we, we don't wanna have a house divided here, so we're gonna, we're gonna go ahead and keep making disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Please pray for us, and we're going to continue to pray God's best for you.
Heath Hollensbe:Now, what if there's like a, what if there's somebody who's kind of in the middle?
Heath Hollensbe:Like, I appreciate what you said, and that it's not our job to convince the pastor or church leadership that this missional way is a better way of living, though you and I both strongly believe that.
Heath Hollensbe:Maybe you got a pastor who doesn't understand, but wants to learn, or a leadership team that goes, It's working, we don't, we, it's not our norm, but, We see it's working.
Heath Hollensbe:How would you suggest to begin having that conversation with either the pastor or the leadership team if they are at a crossroads?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think the lowest hanging fruit is like share some books with people, you know, like hey pastor This is a book that's really given us some wind in our sails.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, and I we've all read it and it's given us lots of encouragement It's deep in us in the gospel like Like, could you read that?
Caesar Kalinowski:And like, I'd love to get some coffee with you, like, you know, every couple of weeks and just see what you're getting out of it, you know, see what it's doing in your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Maybe, maybe even if you're kind of like, if he's interested, like maybe even read it as a couple and see what you think, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, you know, I think of like, Okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shameless self-promotion here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Transformed, give 'em transformed, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, that's a great book, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or Jeff's book Saturate.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:By Vander still, or, or give them tangible kingdom.
Caesar Kalinowski:Mm-hmm . Or I've, I've seen people do this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, our group's gonna be going through the gospel primer together, and I know you got your own group and you got some stuff going.
Caesar Kalinowski:Would you just join us for eight weeks?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're gonna go through this and it's gonna really.
Caesar Kalinowski:put a lot of flesh on our gospel identity and how it gets lived out in the normal rhythms of everyday life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And would you just give us like eight evenings to kind of really deeper dive into what we're doing and why and see, see what the Lord says to you in that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And after that, you know, if it still just isn't your Ballywick, then fair's fair.
Caesar Kalinowski:But would you do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that's kind of the, where they're not forbidden it, but they don't get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Books.
Caesar Kalinowski:Some small experiences like that when you're going out serving.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, why don't you come and join?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know you and your family come and join us while we serve, but then come out come come afterwards and we have a meal With everybody and we kind of download like how we saw the gospel playing out and you know Evidences of grace and what God was doing.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, I want you to join us for a couple of those see why we're so excited Oh, it's cool, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think that could be a real blessing
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah, you know, I, uh, like you had said earlier, too, like the Tangible Kingdom Primer, Gospel Primer, those are really great study guides to start with because there's this consistent rhythm, you're gathering, it's always around a meal, it's non threatening, everybody does something a little
Caesar Kalinowski:bit each day, you know, and I think for transitioning churches, you know, the Tangible Kingdom Primer, that's your starting point, that's a killer one.
Heath Hollensbe:So, say, um, you're listening to this podcast and you're like, you know what, we've listened to this long enough, We wanna, we wanna move towards this direction.
Heath Hollensbe:We want, we wanna figure out how to, how to do this, what the next steps are.
Heath Hollensbe:He's not gonna
Caesar Kalinowski:read the books.
Caesar Kalinowski:He hasn't, he said no.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or whatever, . Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we wanna learn.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're doing
Heath Hollensbe:it.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe:And we want something maybe a little bit deeper than just the, the 30 minute podcast every week.
Heath Hollensbe:I know you, I know we've got tons of resources we'd like to give him.
Heath Hollensbe:Maybe you could
Caesar Kalinowski:share some of those with the listeners.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, like I mentioned, Tangible Kingdom Primer is, is a great one for that transitioning because it's eight weeks.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everybody in the community is going to do a little bit of something every day for eight weeks, but not together.
Caesar Kalinowski:But then you have an action day and you've, we've talked about these together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Same with the gospel primer.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's, it's seven days a week for eight days.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll put links to all that stuff in the show notes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now for the super serious, okay, is, you know, did you know, Tina and I, we do a lot of coaching where we actually disciple people who've not been discipled in this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, it's not the same as if we're face to face.
Caesar Kalinowski:But our, our coaching, you get a lot of experience and you get a lot of access to us, unlike any, like I'm not kidding you, like people, you see my phone blowing up right now, this is all coaching stuff going off right now because all my people I coach, it's just constantly happening, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And by the way, if you're loving what you're learning here, if this is helpful and you'd like a little more personal help, I would love to talk with you and get you some information about the coaching and the mentorship that we offer.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just go over to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you get a whole bunch of information and fill out the application and then if you're approved, what we'll do is we'll send you back a whole outline of the Everyday Disciple framework where we really unpack the whole thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:So go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash coaching to get started right now.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's get to the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Which is a
Heath Hollensbe:printable PDF of this week's big three takeaways.
Heath Hollensbe:If nothing else.
Heath Hollensbe:The things we want you to leave with today, you get those for free by going to everydaydisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com forward slash big three.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar, what are the big
Caesar Kalinowski:three for this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, the big three that'll be in that download.
Caesar Kalinowski:So first one, I'll say making disciples as a lifestyle with families, both your nuclear family and extended, on mission together is the primary organizing structure of the church.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't miss it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I said it's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:I snuck it in there a few times.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So a missional community, just to like shorten it up, a missional community is the primary organizing structure of the church, oikos, family and mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:God has always desired a worldwide earthly family that would live in such a way as to show the world his love and generosity.
Caesar Kalinowski:inviting everybody to a place at his table.
Caesar Kalinowski:And this needs to happen in all of the normal rhythms of everyday life, not just once a week.
Caesar Kalinowski:But number two, man, second of the big three, don't miss this.
Caesar Kalinowski:The gospel is just as needed and powerful for Christians within the church as it is for not yet believers.
Caesar Kalinowski:outside of traditional church structures.
Caesar Kalinowski:Any and every environment or ministry style that proclaims and demonstrates the good news of the gospel is vital and it should be honored.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll never lead a movement of change by being against anything or everything.
Caesar Kalinowski:So good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:What are you for?
Caesar Kalinowski:Live as an example.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let your good deeds and your humility shine the light for everyone else to see and follow you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's great, dude.
Caesar Kalinowski:Number three.
Caesar Kalinowski:Third one.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, many of our, you know, like many of our ministry choices, like don't miss this, are, and our strategies really boil down to personal preference.
Caesar Kalinowski:But disciple making is the only mission that the church exists for.
Caesar Kalinowski:And discipleship happens in community, like Jesus did.
Caesar Kalinowski:Life on life, life together on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:If our churches are focused on funding and striving to Consumer Christians to sign up for endless programming.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're not actively living as a family of God all week together as Disciples who make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, they're missing out on the exact and only reason that the church exists.
Caesar Kalinowski:So for that I would implore you to please get started doing this right away.
Heath Hollensbe:Man, the uh, The quote that you said that you'll never lead a movement of change by being against anything It's just really convicting to me because again the heart and all this is not to It's not to slam anything, it's just to go
Caesar Kalinowski:like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anywhere the good news is preached, the actual gospel of grace.
Heath Hollensbe:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, and who God is, and what he's done, and what's now true of us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Anywhere that's happening, please promote that, support it, fund it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:But let's, , let's do the mission we've been called to, and that's make disciples the disciples in everyday life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Heath Hollensbe:Again, if you haven't yet joined our Facebook group, all you gotta do is go to Facebook, up in the search bar, type in Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Heath Hollensbe:Caesar or I will approve you to the group, and we will not kick you out until you say something awful.
Heath Hollensbe:There's a good family in there already.
Heath Hollensbe:I mean, we're a ton.
Heath Hollensbe:Thanks for joining us today.
Heath Hollensbe:For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Heath Hollensbe:com.
Heath Hollensbe:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
