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Why Church Elders Should Be Lead Disciple-makers
Episode 4063rd October 2022 • Everyday Disciple Podcast • Caesar Kalinowski
00:00:00 00:41:41

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Many pastors are working hard to lead their families and flocks to engage discipleship in all of life, but their biggest roadblocks to exponential growth is their own church elders! Oftentimes, these “elders” do not make disciples and have never led another person to faith in Jesus. How could this be so common?! This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we ask the question: Are your elders discipleship friends or foes? You’ll discover the true history of how church elders emerged, their roles, and why your church elders should be lead disciple-makers in your church. In This Episode You’ll Learn:
  • Did elders exist in culture before the emergence of the Church?
  • How elders were appointed and their role in the early church.
  • Why your elders should be THE model for making disciples in the church!
  • What to do if your elders are “blocking” discipleship in community.
  From this episode: “I think what really scares me is, not only is this type of elder a rare person on many church boards, but because the church has gotten so far away from the one true mission Jesus gave us–make disciples in all of life–many elders are actually a barrier to those on staff or in leadership… a hindrance to actually making disciples and prioritizing community as the way that Christianity and Kingdom life is modeled and disciples are taught and matured.”  
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…

Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Free Download of the Big 3 For Episode #406 Get the Everyday Disciple Worksop here. Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living.   Join us on Facebook

Transcripts

Caesar:

But I think what really scares me is, you know, not only is this a rare person on many church elder boards today, but because the church has gotten so far away from the one true mission Jesus gave us, make disciples in all of life.

Caesar:

Many elders are actually a barrier to those on staff or in leadership or just the general laity of the church.

Caesar:

They're like a barrier or hindrance to actually making disciples and prioritizing community as the way that Christianity and kingdom life is modeled, and disciples are taught and matured, and I know so many pastors that are working hard to lead their families and their flocks to engage discipleship in all of life.

Caesar:

and One of their biggest roadblocks are their own elders.

Caesar:

Elders, supposedly, who don't even make disciples in many cases, who have never led a person to faith in Christ themselves.

Caesar:

And then they've spent years, you know, in community and modeling it and all that.

Caesar:

No, they, they've never done that, and yet they're the roadblock.

Caesar:

It's killing me.

Heath:

Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.

Heath:

In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.

Heath:

This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.

Heath:

And now here's your host.

Heath:

Caesar.

Heath:

Kalinowski.

Caesar:

All right, welcome.

Caesar:

Hey, you know, a couple weeks back I teased y'all with something I've been working on and I've been working pretty hard on it.

Caesar:

Something that I'm really excited about and I hope you'll be too.

Caesar:

Maybe in the past you've been a part of our everyday Disciple challenges where we've come online.

Caesar:

Live every day for four days, and I kinda lay out our basic framework for discipleship in everyday life.

Caesar:

And I give you a bunch of tools, a little bit of homework just to kind of get you started and, and show you that you really can live this way and make discipleship part of your everyday life.

Caesar:

Well, we wanted to take that a little bit further and we created a version of all of that training called the Everyday Disciple.

Caesar:

Workshop.

Caesar:

It's a simple and reproducible discipleship framework for really busy people.

Caesar:

And what we did was we took all the best training from the challenges that people loved and they kept asking us, Hey, how can I keep a copy of this challenge?

Caesar:

And it was just a live thing.

Caesar:

You needed to be there to watch it with just a few days of replay.

Caesar:

But now you can.

Caesar:

And we have actually improved on all.

Caesar:

Tweaked it, upgraded it all.

Caesar:

And I just wanna take a second and tell you about it, because I'm gonna give you immediate access to all of it.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

But let me tell you about the training that you can get.

Caesar:

And then by the way, you'd have lifetime access to it too.

Caesar:

So yeah, we're continuing to try to up the anti here and give you more and more resources.

Caesar:

So let me tell you a little bit about the everyday Disciple.

Caesar:

The workshop and the different lessons that are in there.

Caesar:

So, uh, you're gonna start out with a lesson called The Life We All Wanted.

Caesar:

And in it I'm gonna tell you a little bit about our story and how we discovered how to make our faith in Jesus and Disciple making kind of part of our rhythms of our everyday life and all that.

Caesar:

Uh, lesson two is lose the religious pressure.

Caesar:

Yeah, and it's gonna help you do just that as you start to create a new framework of discipleship that really will forever change the way you do evangelism and make disciples of Jesus.

Caesar:

Lesson three is about our Gospel identity.

Caesar:

It's called Embrace your True Identity, and this is foundational understanding.

Caesar:

Our God formed identity changes our motivations, and it helps us change others.

Caesar:

Motivations and then send us out on mission.

Caesar:

It's really key to making discipleship in everyday life and starting Missional communities.

Caesar:

Lesson four is remove the two busy roadblock.

Caesar:

You know how it is.

Caesar:

Everybody says, Oh, they're just too busy for discipleship.

Caesar:

They love it.

Caesar:

This all sounds great.

Caesar:

Well, we're gonna give you six rhythms of life that'll help you perfectly.

Caesar:

Integrate discipleship into everyone's schedule without having to add a bunch of new stuff.

Caesar:

And then less than five is how to build deeper connections to God, and we'll understand how did Jesus do that?

Caesar:

How did he balance his time and attention as he moved his disciples from curious onlookers to mature Disciple makers, and how did he help deepen their connections between each other and with God?

Caesar:

I've also thrown a bunch of bonus trainings.

Caesar:

For you as well.

Caesar:

There's a video on helping to move renters to owners in ministry, right?

Caesar:

So people aren't just sort of phoning it in, but they start to act like, Hey, we own this ministry too.

Caesar:

We'll talk about the difference between your proactive and reactive mission.

Caesar:

In another lesson I'm gonna give you as a bonus, and then I also included a video that I recorded on the Holy Spirit and Missional living.

Caesar:

And it's powerful.

Caesar:

I think you're gonna like it.

Caesar:

So all of that's available to you right now for immediate access, and you can hang onto it forever.

Caesar:

Uh, unlike the challenges were, all you have to do is go to everyday Disciple dot com slash workshop, everyday Disciple dot com slash workshop, and you can get that thing right now.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Today you're gonna hear a conversation between me and Heath about a bit of a sensitive and at times cloudy topic.

Caesar:

And what I mean by that is not everyone is gonna agree with what I have to say here as we talk about the biblical role of elders within the church.

Caesar:

And more specifically?

Caesar:

Well, I think it's fair to say that we get to expect our church elders to be lead Disciple makers opening up their lives and homes and marriages, and showing everyone in the church what a lifestyle of discipleship and mission look like, and how to do that here, take a listen.

Heath:

This is a little bit of a different topic today because we're sort of learning some things about historical church polity and leadership.

Heath:

Mm-hmm.

Heath:

, but we're also gonna be addressing a common challenge that a lot of our listeners and even you and I have gone through and folks writing in, are facing or have faced or, or will face.

Caesar:

Yeah, that's right.

Caesar:

Cuz.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Today probably we're gonna poke the bear a little.

Caesar:

You know that term, right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Just like, Ooh, uh, yeah.

Caesar:

Or, or a lot even.

Caesar:

Um, and we're gonna be looking at elders and eldership in the church.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And we're gonna ask the question, are your elders discipleship friends or foes.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Now maybe unintentionally they're foes, but the way they govern the church you're at and you know, and the church, maybe you're on staff leading may actually be making it harder to make disciples of Jesus.

Caesar:

They don't mean they don't mean to be right, but they might.

Caesar:

It's just happening and I hear it all the time now, some are actually downright, it seems like against it.

Caesar:

They're just like anti community and Missional, you know, life and all that.

Caesar:

But, but some of them are making it, believe it or not, and it's not, it's not rare bro.

Caesar:

. No.

Caesar:

I've

Heath:

been in churches where this has happened and I,

Caesar:

elders are actually making it harder for staff in the church to make disciples of Jesus.

Caesar:

Yeah,

Heath:

right.

Heath:

It's like the exact opposite of the role.

Heath:

It's, it's absolutely horrible when that happens.

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

So I'm curious like.

Heath:

Let's start out talking a bit about what the role of elders was historically

Heath:

in the church.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And, and this, you know, obviously there's like three inch books written on this, so Sure.

Caesar:

I'm gonna have to hit certain aspects of it in light of what we talk about on life school.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

But many Christians I know and, and, and I know I did certainly seem to think the term elder and the role of elders is, and has always been a function or office within the church.

Caesar:

Like we dreamt it up.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Like elders, Oh, that's a church thing.

Caesar:

Yeah, sure.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

But in fact, historically elders existed in culture throughout the ages forever, right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Before the church existed.

Caesar:

So who are they?

Caesar:

Well, they were the older elder brothers within the existing villages, cities.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

The old men, essentially, that are trusted and they're gone to for advice and counsel.

Caesar:

And we hear about this sometimes even in scripture.

Caesar:

Like, you know, the elders sitting by the gate, you know?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

They.

Caesar:

Old.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And, and they're not maybe out in the fields or out on the boats or whatever anymore, but they had given their life and their advice to now caring for their community.

Caesar:

And every village in town had them and still does today.

Caesar:

And like, we don't see that here.

Caesar:

Like, you know, there's, there's not like a place where all the elders go and sit in, you know, Tacoma or Seattle or whatever, you know?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And they're there.

Caesar:

If you need some help, you go talk to 'em, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

You need some wisdom or you, you got, you know, an argument to be fixed or whatever, you go to them.

Caesar:

But I've been so many places in the world where that's still very, very, Really?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

I mean, you go into Africa and you go into Asian cultures Sure.

Caesar:

And you're out in, especially in less developed countries, nation, cities, and literally like we would show up for whatever we're doing if it was teaching or bringing food or medicine in, or you know, whatever we were doing.

Caesar:

And they would generally take us straight to introduce us to the elders.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Sometimes called chief.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Caesar:

And they were, they were this, this group of old bucks who like are, they're the watchful eye.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

And they've been, they've been through more than anybody.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

anyway.

Caesar:

Uh, that's who elders were now elders in the New Testament.

Caesar:

They weren't these people that were run through a series of classes and then voted upon and put in charge of everyone else in the church.

Caesar:

Never.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Not once you'll, you'll just not find it.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Um, they were, these.

Caesar:

Elders that existed in these villages in Galatia and Antioch and Ephesus, right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And then they were recognized, and we'll talk more about that.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

So when it came to the newly forming Oikos, right, the churches throughout the book of Acts that are being planted in spring up, elders oftentimes years after the community formed, are acknowledged then by the community.

Caesar:

And in sometimes we see it in writing by Paul or Timothy or other apostles.

Caesar:

But they're there.

Caesar:

But now we're hearing about, okay, which are the ones that you should trust because they look like this, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Now, the original word in Greek usually translated like ordained.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Like, you know, the elders were ordained or whatever.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Um, means acknowledged, actually, or recognized.

Caesar:

So they acknowledged elders in every church, huh?

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And it's not an official ordination like ministers or ordained today.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

They recognized those men's that were already elders, older brothers in the village who were walking uprightly with God, trusting and following Jesus, and who've been given their wisdom and care to the younger believers within the.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

You know, this sounds really different than even the last church I was in because it sounds like the way you're describing it is they were older brothers.

Caesar:

Uh, they're trusted, they're, they're wise counsel.

Caesar:

They're steeped in, in the knowledge of the faith.

Caesar:

And the last church I was in, it was like, Oh crap.

Caesar:

Uh, we gotta find elder for discipleship.

Caesar:

Uh, this guy might be able to do it.

Caesar:

He's here occasionally.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

It was just filling positions, whereas it seems like it used to be a trusted role.

Caesar:

No.

Caesar:

If you were to go before the church or even during the church, say, Who are your elders?

Caesar:

They go, these.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

You know, like if you were to die, you know, who would like look over your family and you wouldn't even have to wonder, Oh, these, these, these are the guys.

Caesar:

Yeah, these are the guys, these are, these are the people right here, you know?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And so, um, yeah.

Caesar:

And I know in some traditions they're called elders.

Caesar:

Sometimes they're called presbyters, sometimes they're just called pastors.

Caesar:

Um, Yeah.

Caesar:

Anyway, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

So today I'm not looking to dive too deeply into a discussion of the character qualifications of elders within the church.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

You know, those that Paul lays out in First Timothy, we will look at that verse, but I'm not trying to get into like the character aspect so much, but if we look at what Paul wrote even just briefly today in light of the Gospel mm-hmm.

Caesar:

. Okay.

Caesar:

And in light of the one true mission of the church.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

I think a very different picture of what elders in the church were like, okay, emerges.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And what their roles.

Caesar:

That's emerging as well.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

So first Timothy three says this, Here's a trustworthy saying.

Caesar:

I love that, right?

Caesar:

Like, I'm gonna start talking to you about that.

Caesar:

It's like, here's a trustworthy saying, here's a trustworthy saying, You're guacamole is not as good as my . Okay?

Caesar:

So he.

Caesar:

First Timothy three.

Caesar:

Here's what Paul's talking, right?

Caesar:

Here's the trust.

Caesar:

We're saying whoever aspires to be an overseer, that's the word translated in this, you know, translation to elder desires a noble task, So it's a good thing.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Now notice there's a desire there, . Okay?

Caesar:

It's not like you're roped into something.

Caesar:

Talked into it or whatever.

Caesar:

Now, the overseer, he says, is to be above reproach means good guy, right?

Caesar:

Not, not like this bad, you know, like list stuff.

Caesar:

Faithful to his wife, tempered, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

So there's a bunch of character qualifications.

Caesar:

Not gonna dig that out today.

Caesar:

Maybe that's a different episode.

Caesar:

But notice this says hospitable.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

That means he must enjoy having guests in his home.

Caesar:

One translation says it that way.

Caesar:

That's good.

Caesar:

And he must be able to teach, Hmm.

Caesar:

Now I, I've known elders that have nobody over ever.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Or at least I was at the church for a decade and never was invited over.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

Or once, but it was for like a fundraiser or Yeah.

Caesar:

Some official meeting.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

It wasn't a person who actually deeply loved it.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

When you talk to anybody, it's like, do you, are you guys hanging out with the elders?

Caesar:

No.

Caesar:

You know, they never were up.

Caesar:

Well, are they able to though?

Caesar:

I'm pretty sure if they had to, it's like, no, no, no.

Caesar:

It means they are applying the Gospel.

Caesar:

Yeah,

Caesar:

they are a voice in this.

Caesar:

Yeah, exactly.

Caesar:

They're a voice among the community that's like, I know you're upset with him.

Caesar:

You know, Listen, this is this.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

Let's, what's the Gospel say?

Caesar:

Like what is, what does Jesus say and show us about that.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

So then it goes on verse three, not given a drunkenness.

Caesar:

So you don't wanna be a drunk.

Caesar:

Uh, but notice that doesn't say, doesn't drink, right?

Caesar:

So anyway, I'm not gonna go, uh, not violent, but gentle, Not quarrelsome , not a lover of money.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

All that stuff says to me that others focused.

Caesar:

Then here's a big one, verse four.

Caesar:

He must manage his own family well, in light of what?

Caesar:

in light of the mission.

Caesar:

Yeah, in light of the Gospel.

Caesar:

That's good, right?

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

Like some people parent, like with shame, they parent with, you know, should to be, you know, like very, A reward based.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Abusive transactional.

Caesar:

No, an elder.

Caesar:

We manage their family well and see that his children obey and must do so mad worthy of full respect.

Caesar:

That's good.

Caesar:

Meaning you've ever known people who like you, go like, um, if we were to die, I really would hope like they would raise our kids.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

You know what I mean?

Caesar:

Like, I hope they would raise our kids.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Have you ever known anybody that was like, you know, I love them, but they're not doing a super killer job with the kids.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Like, just aren't.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And I would not want, I, I don't even if I want my kids hanging with 'em, but I wouldn't want raising my kids.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Guess what?

Caesar:

Some of those sometimes are leaders in the church and elders and stuff.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

You're right.

Caesar:

Yikes.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

I know them.

Caesar:

Okay, so.

Caesar:

. Now he goes on.

Caesar:

If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?

Caesar:

There's some practical stuff.

Caesar:

Yeah, right.

Caesar:

Again, like here, that's trustworthy.

Caesar:

. Yeah.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Verse six.

Caesar:

He must not be a recent convert.

Caesar:

So that speaks to some age plus also age of faith.

Caesar:

Cuz you know how it is.

Caesar:

You know, you think you're all figured it out, right?

Caesar:

In your faith like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and then you go like, Oh, I don't even know if I think I was, I'm still trying to figure out.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Uh, so you don't become conceded and falling the same judgment as.

Caesar:

Now here, verse seven.

Caesar:

Huge in light of think about what's the mission.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Only mission Jesus gave us.

Caesar:

Go make disciples.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

All right.

Caesar:

Think.

Caesar:

Think about he must also have a good reputation with outsiders.

Caesar:

Wow.

Caesar:

Now wait a minute, to have a reputation with outsiders.

Caesar:

And then Paul is specifically representing those outside the faith right now.

Caesar:

You have to be around people enough to have a rep.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

To have, You gotta know your community.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

It's not like, well, no one probably has anything on paper against you.

Caesar:

You know?

Caesar:

Or at work everybody says, Yeah, he's fine, you know, she's fine.

Caesar:

Whatever.

Caesar:

No.

Caesar:

A reputation with outsiders means people know you.

Caesar:

You're a person of peace.

Caesar:

You're known for being that elder who always lends a hand.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

I don't even, I'm not even a part of these wacky people that follow Jesus over here, but that person.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

I would, I would, I would ask him for advice on my marriage, my parenting, they, they would loan me a buck when I needed it.

Caesar:

If I'm sick, they would, you know, help, whatever.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

He must have a good reputation with outsiders.

Caesar:

So, elders, overseers, Shepherd, all these terms are used interchangeably, and they're from a similar route in the Greek.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

So anyway, all right, so that's taken sort of our classic passage from First Timothy three, and I think it immediately gives some insight to go, Whoa, are our, are our elders Like that?

Caesar:

Among us, They, they, you know, invitation without any kind of title.

Caesar:

They are just, they are el they're doing it.

Caesar:

If you said, Who are your elders, it'd be like that guy, that guy, you know?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Now, later we also have Peter's letter to the church in Asia Minor.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And man, there's some mind blowing stuff on this from an author by the name of Frank Viola.

Caesar:

And, uh, he's written some books you've read.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Dig.

Caesar:

Oh, I

Caesar:

love him.

Caesar:

Pagan Christianity for

Caesar:

holy cow.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Buckle

Heath:

up, right?

Heath:

Yeah, he's.

Heath:

He's a bit of a bull in a China shop of religion because he will, he holds Jesus

Caesar:

sacred.

Caesar:

But it's helpful.

Caesar:

I don't know anybody who knows the word like better.

Caesar:

Oh, North thorough.

Caesar:

When it comes to New Testament, Ecclesiology, Church, you know, Advance, Who loves Jesus?

Caesar:

Oh man.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

So he, he had a book, I don't even know if it's available out there anymore, but it's called Straight Talk to Elders, but there is a PDF out there, so maybe we can put that in the show notes.

Caesar:

Yeah, I just

Heath:

looked on eBay while you said that and there's no, It's like 45 bucks

Caesar:

for you.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

For a paperback.

Caesar:

It's like not even that long.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Cause really that book, what it was, was he did a talk.

Caesar:

Like down in South America, I think, and it was about eldership.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And people asked them all kinds of questions and they went ahead and just printed it up for a while.

Caesar:

And somehow I got a copy of it and it's out there, but it's hard to find now.

Caesar:

Wow.

Caesar:

But the PDF is out there, so maybe we can turn people on.

Caesar:

Anyway, so, So a lot of my thing comes this.

Caesar:

So here's what's going on first, Peter.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Paul dies.

Caesar:

Now the church is in Galatia Asian minor that Paul planted.

Caesar:

They're suffering, They're being persecuted.

Caesar:

It's tough.

Caesar:

It's tough sled.

Caesar:

Okay, Now Peter the Apostle, right?

Caesar:

He's in Rome and Peter knows that Paul's dead and, and now these churches need to be cared for by an outside worker.

Caesar:

Peter knows that they're suffering, and so he writes them this letter to encourage them in their.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Okay, so it's Galatia, Bithnia, Asia Minor, et cetera.

Caesar:

They're Paul's territory.

Caesar:

This is primarily a gentile world that he's writing this to.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

And these churches are made up, not mostly of Jews, but Jews are everywhere, and they're all throughout but of Gentiles.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Remember Paul's dead.

Caesar:

So with the help of Silas is Pal, who was with Peter and Rome.

Caesar:

Peter writes a letter to the Christians of that region, Asian minor in Galatians.

Caesar:

It's called First Peter, right?

Caesar:

Okay, here's how first Peter starts out right now.

Caesar:

This is a bit of a paraphrase, but you'll get it.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

It's first Peter five one, and he opens the letter and says, I'm Peter . I am an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Caesar:

So he's introduced himself.

Caesar:

Cause remember, this is Paul's crew, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

I'm writing to you who resides throughout.

Caesar:

And then he lists the name of the places, right?

Caesar:

And he writes to those Christians who reside in Asia Minor Galatia.

Caesar:

Notice he doesn't write to the elders.

Caesar:

He writes to the church at that, you know, to the people that the Oikos, the eklisia , right?

Caesar:

Like Paul, he's writing to the people.

Caesar:

Paul always wrote that way too.

Caesar:

Everything he says is to the churches, to the people until he gets to the last chapter.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Now, There's some significance in that.

Caesar:

Okay, sure.

Caesar:

He's writing this, you know, first Peter, it's like huge.

Caesar:

The church is new, it's suffering, it's been going on for, you know, years, but not that long.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

And it's going through some really hard times and when he writes, he doesn't say, Hey leaders, here's what you gotta get busy talking everybody into doing.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

He writes to the people, right.

Caesar:

Um, that's significant first to the church.

Caesar:

And after that, then Peter wants to say something to the elders.

Caesar:

Brothers hear this with the ears of your spirit.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

So Peter knows that, um, the church is having a hard time, they're suffering.

Caesar:

Uh, and there's a tendency, okay, this is human, but is also cultural.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Um, uh, in our human nature to control God's people when things are going wrong.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

You know, that's often when leaders seem to spring out a like I only hear from them when something's broken.

Caesar:

Exactly.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And that's not cool.

Caesar:

But in, in an effort to protect, protect these people, Right.

Caesar:

Um, uh, and really be a servant to them.

Caesar:

So Paul goes a different way, right?

Caesar:

He knows Paul's dead, but he wanted to say something to the elders.

Caesar:

So in first Peter five, one, this is where, I'm sorry.

Caesar:

This is where we finally get to five.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

That was kind of a summary of the book.

Caesar:

He goes, Therefore, I Peter, speak to the elders who are among you.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Now notice this right away among you.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

I speaking to the elders among you, that's how the elders live.

Caesar:

They were just part of that city, that village.

Caesar:

They're part of the family.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

They're part of the oikos.

Caesar:

Not over you.

Caesar:

The elders are among the church.

Caesar:

Not over the church.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

And I know that's poking some people right away, but you go look it up, go read it.

Caesar:

And there's a zillion examples, especially if you read that, that, that sort of thing I was telling about from Frank Viola.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

He goes on, he says, I appeal to you as a fellow, fellow elder, an old faithful man.

Caesar:

You know, you are also old and faithful men.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Verse two.

Caesar:

He goes, Shepherd, that means take care of the flock of God.

Caesar:

Okay, Now let me tell you what the Greek says.

Caesar:

The Greek says shepherd the flock that is among you.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Not under you.

Caesar:

Again, it is again, catching this, you know?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

The church is among the elders, not under them.

Caesar:

Now he continues now exercise, you know, oversight.

Caesar:

Now he doesn't say overlord and I, and we trying to twist that word.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

He says, oversight.

Caesar:

Now what's, what's an overlord?

Caesar:

Well, what's the word, Lord?

Caesar:

It means master.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

Think Jesus is Lord.

Caesar:

God is right.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Lord.

Caesar:

It means in charge.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

The boss.

Caesar:

The boss.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

The boss.

Caesar:

He says, Don't over Lord.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

He says, bring oversight.

Caesar:

He's telling Look out for the saints.

Caesar:

Care for them.

Caesar:

They're hurting.

Caesar:

They're, you're their older brothers.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

You know, you know some things better than they do.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And so I'm exhorting you to look out for your younger brothers and sisters, and that's what he's saying.

Caesar:

Not under compulsion, not for dishonest gain.

Caesar:

To take from them.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

And then in verse three, here's what we have.

Caesar:

He goes, Not as being lords over those entrusted to you, but by being examples to the flock.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Well, examples of what, in light of the mission, what might Paul, uh, Peter here be urging them to?

Caesar:

Don't try to act like the boss Yeah.

Caesar:

But live a life of examples.

Caesar:

What, what's the only mission that Peter's on trust?

Caesar:

He's the rock of the church.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Let's make disciples.

Caesar:

Yeah, go make, like you should be living as examples to them, not just showing up on there's problems.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

And trying to like Lord over so, Well, I'm not lording over anybody.

Caesar:

I'm just exercising my authority.

Caesar:

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

. Jesus said I didn't come to judge.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

People will, like, they'll, they'll, they'll poopoo this whole thing.

Caesar:

They'll, they'll reject me and the kingdom in God's love and they'll bring judgment upon themselves.

Caesar:

So, no, don't claim that.

Caesar:

Don't claim because you went through some classes or the only ones left standing or everybody stepped back and you step forward.

Caesar:

Now you have authority over.

Caesar:

No elders are among right.

Caesar:

All the stuff we've just.

Caesar:

And they're given responsibility to care, protect, and live as an example.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

They already have cultural influence because of their age and status within the community.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

But now Peter and Paul and others, and even the communities himself, they're recognizing.

Caesar:

Based on first Timothy three, which of these elders that exist are the ones who are our elders within the church to be trusted and looked to.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Now, if this sounds like I'm trying to tear down the role of eldership, I'm not, I actually think it's elevating it because it sounds so much like Jesus lived Yeah, exactly.

Caesar:

And was right and and no is Peter he, He then says to the younger brothers and sisters, you younger brother, and submit your heart.

Caesar:

Listen to and give weight to what the elders have to say.

Caesar:

Not because they have authority over you, not because they have the right to control you, but because they're older in spiritual life.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

But as he closes in verse five, he tells 'em all, be subject to one another in humility.

Caesar:

Now who's, who's that last part he's saying it to?

Caesar:

He's saying it to younger people, but in light of speaking to the elders about it.

Caesar:

So be subject to one another.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

In Humility.

Caesar:

The elders, the younger brothers and sisters, the body.

Caesar:

But Jesus said the same thing so many times.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And these are basically all echoes of what Paul said in Ephesians five.

Caesar:

You can check it out, right?

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

So Peter here was afraid that at this time of crisis, the elders would start to Lord over.

Caesar:

or control take over exercise like authority, Like, like that's not theirs over other people, the church people, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

So he says, Don't Lord over the flock.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

And that you can, you can do all the Greek study of all that stuff, right?

Caesar:

Jesus used that same thing when he says the, the Gentiles lorded over those under them.

Caesar:

And he said, Don't be that way.

Caesar:

Don't do that.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

The Gentiles have their hierarchy and there's some above others, uh, in authority, but it's not to be that way among you.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And Peter repeats the Lord's word.

Caesar:

Do not Lord over them.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Don't be over lords.

Caesar:

So the Gospel shows us the humility and servant's heart of God in Christ.

Caesar:

And that's what Peter, and that's what Paul are pointing to and they're saying, and be.

Caesar:

Be examples of, of what's the life making disciples, uh, hospitality, opening your home.

Caesar:

Hospitality's not fellowship by the way that's amongst the saints hospitality and a reputation with outsiders is like having people over.

Caesar:

Having people experience and taste the kingdom to get to be and hang out with the oikos and not feel weird about it.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

You're to be examples to the flock.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Of what that looks like.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

My

Heath:

goodness.

Heath:

You know, I was just, as you're talking there, I was thinking about how.

Heath:

If I'm being honest with you, I can't say that I've seen too many, if any, elders in the churches I've been a part of in the past that actually live this way and were examples of how to lead younger, less experienced Christians into living in community with them and making disciples who make more disciples.

Heath:

I've seen it typically as that authority.

Heath:

Like the Presbyterian church I was in, it's, you go to the elders and they will advise you as like authoritarian.

Heath:

It's more of a boss telling

Caesar:

staff forbid stuff that you, you know, it's personal stuff, not stuff that's in scripture, but like, no, you're, you're being punished for that.

Caesar:

Or like, now we're gonna take you up in front of the body.

Caesar:

And shame, the shame it, rather than

Heath:

like a mentorship, it's more of a boss than a mentorship.

Heath:

And it sounds like, like, What we're hearing is the elders are like, No, you're bigger.

Heath:

Like the big brother concept.

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

Like lead us along, teach 'em,

Caesar:

raise 'em.

Caesar:

And by the way, in every village, right before the church sort of acknowledged elders, every village had lots of old people.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

But they weren't all seen as the elders.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

That's, Which ones are the elders?

Caesar:

Because they're mentoring, they're caring, They're an example of a good life.

Caesar:

Look at their kids.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Their kids are awesome.

Caesar:

You know, we've talked about this.

Caesar:

One of my greatest thankfulness is, and gratitude to God, is that our kids are great.

Caesar:

They're adults and they're good people, and people wanna hang out with them.

Caesar:

And I wanna be more like my son, you know?

Caesar:

Yeah, absolutely.

Caesar:

And our kids love God, and they love people, and they're generous and they're easygoing about, you know what I mean?

Caesar:

Mm-hmm.

Caesar:

, like that's good news, right?

Caesar:

But not every old person's that.

Caesar:

So like, which would you choose to like model your life after is kinda what Peter's saying here.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

That's good.

Caesar:

Paul's saying, right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

So, you know, I I, it's so weird, like you said, it seems so rare.

Caesar:

This is like an analogy I've used before.

Caesar:

It's imagine if you owned like a Honda car dealership, Okay?

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

What's the mission of the Honda dealership?

Caesar:

Sell loads of Hondas.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

That's why.

Caesar:

They exist.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

But you know, the head of sales, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of guys who are in charge of sales department.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

They don't even like cars really that much.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

They just kinda, they'd rather just kinda stay where they're at, you know?

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

And um, they particularly don't like Hondas.

Caesar:

In fact, you know, they're just not that into it, you know?

Caesar:

In fact, sometimes they've even been overheard sort of throwing cold water on people who like to drive Honda.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

But they're the head of sales because no one else, you know, really wanted the job, or Sure.

Caesar:

You know, they were wealthy enough or what, You know, it's goofy.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

You'd be like, How are we supposed to sell any Hondas?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Like the guys who are in charge of sales don't even sell Hondas.

Caesar:

It's not, they've never sold one.

Caesar:

And so the elders, the shepherds, the overseers, they should be the lead models and examples of discipleship happening in all of life.

Caesar:

Like what's it look like for the Gospel to speak into parenting?

Caesar:

Look at their life.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Look at how their kids look.

Caesar:

How they even deal with their kids.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Their kids aren't perfect.

Caesar:

No.

Caesar:

There's no such thing.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

But look how they deal with it.

Caesar:

Look how they deal with the thing behind a thing and speak good news to them.

Caesar:

Or how about in marriage?

Caesar:

What's a marriage look like that's that's kept it on the rails, you know?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And seems to be growing in affection, not getting colder and colder.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Like what's generosity lived out amongst?

Caesar:

Really?

Caesar:

Sometimes weird, smelly different people than us.

Caesar:

What's that feeling look like?

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

See your elder.

Caesar:

And, and by the way, elders Shepherd, overseer.

Caesar:

So that's kind of pastor.

Caesar:

That's all kind of one big term.

Caesar:

So if you say, Well I'm not an elder in my church cuz I'm not allowed to be, I only get to be a pastor.

Caesar:

That's just further bad understanding scripture.

Caesar:

It's dividing something that's not meant to be, but you, elders and shepherds and pastors should all be the lead.

Caesar:

Examples of discipleship happening.

Caesar:

You know, the elders and pastors should be rockstar.

Caesar:

Disciple makers.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Absolutely.

Caesar:

So, you know, a young couple in your church who wants to walk in the ways of Jesus and raise their kids to know God and walk in his way and grow up as disciples, making disciples.

Caesar:

Well, who'd you send them to?

Caesar:

Well go out, hang, you know, here's what you'd hope you could say.

Caesar:

Go hang out with the elder and his wife and family.

Caesar:

Mm-hmm.

Caesar:

, right?

Caesar:

Their house is full of people like you, and they'll show you how the Gospel applies to all life and how they've done it, and how they walk in the ways of Jesus.

Caesar:

I'm guessing that's not a common phrase that you hear.

Caesar:

I don't think so.

Caesar:

We'll get into 1 0 1 class, right?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And uh, maybe if there's a small group that meets on a night that fits your schedule, maybe you can find some people you can stand to hang out with.

Caesar:

There's some age and stage groups that'll fit you, right?

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

But, but I think what really scares me is not only is this a rare model example, Many church elder boards today, but because the church has gotten so far away from the one true mission that Jesus gave us, which is make disciples in all of life, many elders are actually a barrier to those on staff or in leadership, or just the general lady of the church.

Caesar:

They're a barrier or hindrance to actually making disciples and prioritizing community.

Caesar:

As the way that Christianity in the kingdom life is modeled, and disciples are taught and matured.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

And I know so many pastors that are working hard to lead their families and flock to engage discipleship in all of life.

Caesar:

And their biggest roadblocks are their own elders.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Quote unquote elders who, who did not make disciples and in many cases have never led another person to faith in Jesus, and then spent years with that person in the community teaching them and showing them all that Jesus said and did, and how the Gospel applies to area of life.

Caesar:

Those are the people who don't do that, are pushing up against those who do.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

It breaks my heart, brother.

Caesar:

It, it's, it's, it's so tragic and so, and it's, We adopted this business model at church.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And people love authority and wanna be put in titles and, Well, I'm only an elder for three years though.

Caesar:

I hear that too.

Caesar:

And breaks my heart.

Caesar:

Like, you either, you're either an elder or not.

Caesar:

It's like saying, Well, I'm only a Christian when I'm at church.

Caesar:

You're like, You can't, No one's gonna agree to that.

Caesar:

Come

Heath:

on.

Heath:

Well, and even the replacement of elders with like board of directors, even the business terms that we put on it now is like,

Caesar:

here's side too that I can't even get into.

Caesar:

Many elders are actually deacons.

Caesar:

If you really do the.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

The stuff, they, they meet incessantly on, over and over and over.

Caesar:

They're dealing with parking lot, getting resurfaced.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And what time, you know, we have to flip this and like, who's, who's covering, you know, the children's ministry?

Caesar:

Like we gotta line them up, they're blocking the lobby, we gotta line 'em up over here and get their badges on 'em.

Caesar:

That's all deacon stuff.

Caesar:

That's family business done by the family.

Caesar:

And those go look up what a deacon does.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

And the examples of that.

Caesar:

Eldering, it's it's lead Disciple making.

Caesar:

It's lead gospeling, it's lead example of life on mission with Jesus.

Caesar:

That's, it's gotta be, That's the mission, right?

Heath:

I've never, I have never seen that separation and that most of what elders are doing is deacon work.

Heath:

You're right, dude.

Heath:

So

Caesar:

many though.

Caesar:

You're so, But they hold onto that.

Caesar:

It's like, Oh, why don't you just be in Deacon if that's really your heart.

Caesar:

Well, I don't want the demotion, you know?

Caesar:

No one's gonna say it.

Caesar:

I'm not, I'm sounding so negative now.

Caesar:

I don't mean to be my heart's broken, bro.

Caesar:

I just No, I get that.

Caesar:

I think that's what's coming through.

Caesar:

But it doesn't have to be, That's the whole thing.

Caesar:

It does not have to be.

Heath:

So what would you say, like, what's the answer to pastors and leaders and Christians in general that have elders that are actually opposed to prioritizing true discipleship and community overall?

Heath:

The traditions and programs of their churches?

Caesar:

Excuse my brother, . Well, I wanna be really clear.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Today, we're not talking about trying to pick fights with your elders.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

Please don't hear that.

Caesar:

That's not the case.

Caesar:

But I, I just, my heart is broken.

Caesar:

It really is.

Caesar:

I too many people that we're coaching and then people that write in who's like, ah, like, I don't wanna have, It's hard enough for me to motivate myself and trust the spirit and all that, and lead my family and lead, you know, bring neighbors into our life and bring intentionality to it.

Caesar:

I, I don't want my elders pushing on me.

Caesar:

So today I'm primarily talking to the elder.

Caesar:

And other leaders that have great authority over the direction that the churches they help lead will actually take.

Caesar:

Okay?

Caesar:

So if that's you, please listen up.

Caesar:

If you're an elder or pastor listening today, and you're not actively engaged in Missional living, making disciples, multiplying community, living with an open door and open home, and helping others make disciples as your top priority of your role.

Caesar:

Of the church.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Would you please ask yourself if you're really qualified?

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Based on Jesus' strong example and commands and Paul and Peter's strong example, and clearly written qualifications, like just be honest.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

I'm not saying you have to pull that out at the next board meeting, but if you're not a lead Disciple maker and your life just looks like that, are you really an elder in the church?

Caesar:

The family business of make disciples who make disciples filling the world with God's glory, which is Christ.

Caesar:

What it

Heath:

might be helpful to you and your family and even your church to like, if you're in that situation, to bench yourself for a bit and go, you know, I, Or

Caesar:

maybe your calling was never that, but you got a point and it sounded good and someone had to like, That's not what's going on.

Caesar:

We didn't even get into the historicity of this.

Caesar:

And if you look at that Frank Viola document, straight, Talk to elders.

Caesar:

Um, The, the churches often didn't have anybody acknowledged as elders for years and years because they weren't any, yet they were young communities and or they were waiting to see the fruit of a new faith matured within the elders and the body.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

So, so that's, that's my strong, you know, challenge to those listening.

Caesar:

who Have that title of elder or you know, Pastor or lead pastor what you know now if you're not a pastor or official leader in your church, but you see the same resistance to making disciples in all of life from your elders.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Here's what I would, Here's what I would suggest to you.

Caesar:

You live as an example, okay?

Caesar:

Because really maybe that burn and fire within you is the initial callings of . Elder, You know, like Really?

Caesar:

But I think that's a call the church.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Remember, it's among, and it's to submit one to another and also, right, But you live as example.

Caesar:

You let your good deeds and your humility shine the light for everyone to see, including your elders, right?

Caesar:

Mm-hmm.

Caesar:

. Okay.

Caesar:

You're never gonna lead a movement.

Caesar:

We've said this before, you're never gonna lead a movement of change within your community by being against anything or against everybody.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

What are you for?

Caesar:

Be for Jesus.

Caesar:

Be for making disciples of Jesus that fill every, you know, household and neighborhood and city with him.

Caesar:

Don't be an antagonist or a pain in the butt to your pastor, your elders, but do live this life and do share how the gospel's taking deeper root in your life.

Caesar:

Day after day.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And how you're living with not yet believers who are coming into your oikos and closer into your family rhythms.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

You know, it's, I don't know who said originally, but it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness . Okay.

Caesar:

And, and by the way, too, , if you're listening to this, you're not an elder and you're like, Go deeper into that.

Caesar:

Go deeper into that.

Caesar:

We did a handful like about a year ago or so.

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

Episode two of seven I think, right?

Heath:

Mm-hmm.

Heath:

, Missional Living when Your Church doesn't support it.

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

Which is, might make a good continuation of this one to jump back and,

Caesar:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Caesar:

Cuz like this one is a strong sort of look at eldership and elders, right.

Caesar:

So, and this might be a good

Heath:

time to really, like, you know, obviously do this with, with some patience and spend some time researching it, but it might be time to pull.

Heath:

Either the elders or the team together and go, Hey guys, we need to reassess what the qualifications are and what the responsibilities are, and,

Caesar:

and that doesn't require the whole board just resign.

Caesar:

And now what because exactly.

Caesar:

Currently we're actually acting like deacons and without that, right?

Caesar:

No, no.

Caesar:

Like keep, take.

Caesar:

Doing the task that you do, but really check your heart if it's, if it's a lording over, in other words, you're making the decisions for everyone instead of the church being led by the spirit of God.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

And elders being protectors and encouragers and fanning the flame of mission and modeling mission.

Caesar:

And when people get excited about something new, they wanna try to like reach more people for Christ or like, Yeah.

Caesar:

How can I.

Caesar:

You know, instead of like, well, you know, that's, is that gonna happen on Sunday?

Caesar:

I might get in the way of our program.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

You know, or well, mops is happening that, or, you know, whatever, You know, Awana gonna, So like no fan the flame, let the spirit be the Disciple of people and, and the true authority.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

So I always say, don't lead from authority, lead from influence.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

And if you've been given influence, Paul says, Don't take it lightly.

Caesar:

It's a high calling absolutely that that influence comes from God, right?

Caesar:

So if you, you know, there again, if you want help with some of that stuff.

Caesar:

This is what we coach to.

Caesar:

It's not, you know, it starts at the table, it starts in the mirror.

Caesar:

It starts with your home.

Caesar:

As leaders, as a regular person, how do you begin to do that?

Caesar:

How do, how do you help your own elders?

Caesar:

We've even done things where I've come in and, you know, flown in and done consulting with whole elder boards.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

To say, Hey, what are your roles?

Caesar:

And do you even, are you even all clear on what the role of an elder is?

Caesar:

Cause like, we tend to focus on the qualifications.

Caesar:

Like, I'm pretty good guy.

Caesar:

You know, it's like, all right, but what?

Caesar:

What, what do the elders did and what do they do and what's the ultimate goal of the church and, and help transition, those kind of things.

Caesar:

So I'm here to help coach or consult or whatever.

Heath:

Awesome, man.

Heath:

Hey, we, uh, we're running outta time, so let's get to the big three for today.

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

These are always the thing that we wanna leave you with.

Heath:

It's the big three takeaways from today's topic that if nothing else, we don't want you to.

Heath:

Things you can't miss and you get it for free as a printable

Caesar:

pdf.

Caesar:

Yep.

Caesar:

Just go to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three and pick that up.

Caesar:

Now, Caesar, what are the big three for this week?

Caesar:

Okay, first thing, don't miss, The only mission that Jesus gave the church was to make disciples.

Caesar:

Just let that soak in.

Caesar:

Like I wish that was just written on the whiteboard or chalkboard at the beginning of every elder meeting.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Now in light of that, let's talk about the rest of this stuff.

Caesar:

How many, How many

Heath:

churches spent?

Heath:

Just, how's

Caesar:

the only mission?

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And it's how God is accomplishing his promised eternal purpose to fill the world with his glory.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Christ in us, the hope of glory, it's amazing.

Caesar:

So our church is leaders, pastors, and elders all need to and get to be focused on this as our highest priority.

Caesar:

Mm-hmm.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And it's why we were saved in, filled with Jesus own spirit.

Caesar:

That's so good.

Caesar:

That's the mission.

Caesar:

That's what we get to do.

Caesar:

Please.

Caesar:

Now.

Caesar:

Second, Jesus never desired that humans would be ruled over and led by human leaders who acted in his place as Lord over others.

Caesar:

Hmm.

Caesar:

Right?

Caesar:

I mean, that's, Take that back, right back to the garden, like the day you eat of this fruit.

Caesar:

Like, I'm gonna manage the knowledge of good and evil for myself.

Caesar:

You'll surely die.

Caesar:

Can't manage for yourself.

Caesar:

Can't manage for anybody else.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Right.

Caesar:

The Bible actually prohibits just such a thing.

Caesar:

Don't Lord over others.

Caesar:

That's not God's Lord of all.

Caesar:

Sure.

Caesar:

His desire is that his own spirit living inside all of us as a family would guide and protect us as the church and, and that those that take on that high privilege of being an overseer, an elder within his family Yep.

Caesar:

Would be a living example of what his life in ministry was.

Caesar:

That's, that's your, that's your thing.

Caesar:

Be an example, right?

Caesar:

That's what it says.

Caesar:

Their lives would certainly not hinder Disciple making, but rather be a light and example of what this lifestyle of discipleship and hospitality really looks like today.

Caesar:

That's good.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And then third, if you are an elder overseeing your church, please make discipleship your personal priority.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

Amen.

Caesar:

Like start there and then, And then use your position of influence to protect and care for those in your church.

Caesar:

Be among them, not over them.

Caesar:

Have them into your homes.

Caesar:

Model hospitality, generosity, this lifestyle of discipleship.

Caesar:

And please don't let your previous lack of this focus turn you into an ongoing road.

Caesar:

BA block two pastors who are trying to lead, or others in your church who are trying hard to make discipleship a priority and a part of everyday.

Caesar:

Yeah.

Caesar:

Okay.

Caesar:

And then lastly, if you find yourself in the appointed position of an elder in your church, but you're not living as an ongoing example of discipleship in all of life, humble.

Caesar:

yourself Okay, and consider if you're really fulfilling that calling, that biblical calling of elder.

Caesar:

So good, right?

Heath:

Yeah.

Heath:

It's a lot to reconsider here.

Caesar:

Hopefully there's a lot of freedom in that.

Caesar:

I know some people are gonna be like losing their mind on this, but I hope that's helpful and start some new and important discussions for you and your leaders.

Caesar:

And again, before we scoot outta here today, I wanna invite you to get immediate access to the Everyday Disciple workshop.

Caesar:

We've trained thousands of people in this powerful framework of discipleship when we were doing our everyday challenges, everyday Disciple challenges, and we always had people asking us how they could get and keep this training in all the videos.

Caesar:

Well, now you can just go over to everyday Disciple dot com slash workshop to get this simple and reproducible discipleship framework.

Caesar:

That really works for busy people.

Caesar:

That's everyday Disciple dot com slash workshop.

Caesar:

I hope you'll grab that, get that downloaded, start watching that, start sharing that with others, cuz now you'll have all of it.

Caesar:

All right, I gotta go for now.

Caesar:

I hope you'll join us next week.

Caesar:

I'll keep diving into discipleship and mission and hopefully help pave the way for this to be a whole lot easier and more natural in your everyday life.

Caesar:

I'll talk to you.

Heath:

Thanks for joining us today.