Welcome to the latest installment of The Curious Capitalist, brought to you by the Board of Conscious Capitalism in Connecticut. The Curious Capitalist is a series of podcasts where we take the opportunity to not only speak, To board members from the Conscious Capitalism Connecticut chapter, but also to business owners, startups, and entrepreneurs.
The Curious Capitalist is available on all of the world's biggest podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. Never miss an episode again and subscribe today wherever you get your podcast. Welcome along to the latest episode of The Curious Capitalist. Now I'm super pleased to be speaking with O Acha, who is the executive director of ct.
Next, now, CT Next offer a wide range of direct assistance to entrepreneurs and aims to serve as a catalyst in the evolution of the, so. Innovation ecosystem. We're gonna find out more about that now. I know O is passionate about building a world where innovation and entrepreneurship fundamentally shape vibrant communities.
So let's find out a little bit more about oni CT Next and how that mission is going. So without further ado, only, welcome to the Curious Capitalist. Hello. Hello, hello. Happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. A long time in the making, so I appreciate being here. Oh, not at all. Not at all. It's worth the way, absolutely worth the way.
Um, I must say that we tried to arrange this some months ago and life stuff gets in the way and work stuff gets in the way, but finally we meet at VIA podcast, so that's wonderful. Only thank you for your time today. So let's jump straight in. Tell me a little bit about you. How did you get to be the executive director of CT next and, and what shaped you in your career path, I guess, to get to this?
Yeah, great question. So I'm the third and last child of Nigerian immigrants, uh, who came here in the eighties. I was born and raised in Windsor, Connecticut. Had opportunity to go to the Windsor Public School System, university, Connecticut, where I first fell in love with entrepreneurship. Starting a tech company, pretty much Amazon Smile before Amazon Smile.
It was an amazing time. We ended up failing miserably because we can identify a value proposition for our customers, but more importantly, I learned a lot. Uh, learned a lot and learned how much I loved entrepreneurship and building things. Fast forward, did some traveling after college after that start failed and then somehow happened upon mall startup company that was doing a lot of stuff with entrepreneurship, innovation, and social innovation specifically.
And at the time, I didn't know up from down into social entrepreneurship, social innovation world. So I ended up going to this place called Reset Social Enterprise Trust, where I was in a cohort. And day one, the cohort. We went around the room and we talked about different folks just had the ability to connect and see what project they were working on.
I was the only non entrepreneur. I was the third employee at the startup company, so I was just really looking at how to build out the corporate social responsibility program and really embed social innovation into the DNA of this. I met this guy, Michelle Patel, who was creating a coffee roasting company and coffee shop, and he pretty much said, Hey, you know, I have this idea to do coffee.
And I said, I'm sorry to hear that. You know, there's so many opportunities to do so many other things, and coffee is such a, you know, highly resource commodity, all these other things happening. So you know why. Um, and he pretty much told me from his vantage point, there's, you know, the best copy in the world is upon some of the poorest communities in the world, and it's a very opaque supply chain, and there's an opportunity to more so even how I was thinking it with the organization I was working for, to embed social values and to the organization.
So by the end of the cohort, I quit my job. I started with him as co-founder of Thes. Uh, and the Happy Life Coffee, a coffee roasting company based in Connecticut that aimed to invest a hundred percent of net profits into the communities, which we sourced our coffee. That was a wild ride. We did coffee roasting.
We opened up a coffee shop in downtown New Haven, and then that's when I really knew entrepreneurship in some way was my career path. But I didn't know what that looked like. So after a couple years of the coffee shop, I ended up selling my equity back to him and, I don't know, go to B School or do something boring with my life.
And then there was a woman at the Center for Business Environment at Yale. Who was building out their social entrepreneurship programming and said, Hey, you're in New Haven. You're a social entrepreneur. Would you wanna do a one year fellowship? And I said, uh, sure. One year, you know, health insurance isn't the worst thing in the world.
Uh, kind of get some financial stability that I didn't have as entrepreneur and see where I can go from there. After around four and a half years at Yale in a variety of different, incredible. Uh, eventually left, traveled a bit more, did some consulting and some work with the nonprofit, and then somehow ended up in the, the seat of the executive director of CT next January 17th of this year.
What a ride from coffee to CT next and how fabulous that that gentleman involved with the coffee grinding was able to clearly demonstrate his vision and his viewpoint and change minds, I guess, and get you on board. That's fantastic. Awesome. Yeah, completely. So tell me about CT Next. How does that work?
How did you get the, well, not how did you get the job, but how does that look on the day to day and, and what puts fire in your. Yeah. Yeah. Whew, man. CT next. I love it. I truly, truly love it. As someone who worked in higher education has worked in, you know, started my own company, has worked in philanthropy, government is a whole nother.
Animal and I honestly have a lot more respect for it. I mean, the resources that on the federal state level can be deployed. I just think there's so much opportunity, and really what I try to do with CT Next every single day is set the precedent of what intentionality and hard work can do in the state of Connecticut.
Our kind of mission and vision, and I think you know, what we're here to do is really provide entrepreneurs the resources they need to create environments in which they can thrive. And we do that through the lens of innovation, entrepreneurship. I think through job creation, through wealth generation on the across all sectors for small medium size enterprises to innovation, innovation driven enterprises.
I think entrepreneur entrepreneurship can be such a catalyst to creating a society in which. Folks gonna really step in, have the resources they need to get the job done and be in an environment, live, work, play in which they can feel healthy and whole and be successful. So we kinda do that through four ways.
One, workforce development, providing opportunities for our innovative sector is to have that human capital they need to survive and thrive. Access to capital through grants and equity funding, giving entrepreneurs opportunity to, you know, get some financial capital in their organization to really go to the next level, or even start off entrepreneurship support services, supporting the incubators and accelerators across the state in order for them to provide the resources that our entrepreneurs need to get the next step.
And then lastly, what we call kind of ecosystem building, whether it's looking at particular geographies or whether it's looking at particular sectors. How do we take a more macro view of what's coming down the line for Connecticut to remain competitive on this? Sector basis to be competitive on a national and global scale.
Right. Obviously we have insurance. Mm-hmm. , we have bio, but what's next up? You know? Yeah. Offshore wind, uh, quantum FinTech, data science. I think there's all of these resources. And latent assets that we have in the state that if organized, again, with an intentionality and community, we can be the best state to launch businesses in these particular sectors.
And I always say, I don't wanna do anything that's good for Connecticut. I wanna do things that are great anywhere in the world, but we just so happened to be in Connecticut doing this work. Nice. I think that differentiator, I think is gonna get us to the next level. Absolutely. So imagine I'm an entrepreneur and I come to you and I say, okay, what can you do to help me?
How does it work? Literally at a grassroots level. I'm a, a young or an old individual. I have this idea. Yeah. Not coffee grinding though. Not coffee or a coffee shop. I come to you, I say only What can you do to help me get really get, get set up and on, stand on my own two feet and develop and grow and, and do.
Yeah, good question. So, I mean, it really depends what sector you're in, right? But let's say you're, you know, a health tech company that you're, you know, you're really interested to get to that next level. So the first thing I would do is connect you with one of the amazing incubators or accelerators that we have, the state, uh, Mary Howard is running a B C T that works on the bio and health.
Um, and I would connect you directly to her and say, what are the resources there that can allow you to really understand your product, understand your market, and get those wraparound services to make sure you're pushing out a high quality business with a high quality product. After that, I will try to get you some financing, right?
We have growth brands, we have opportunities for entrepreneurs to apply. We have business plan competitions, and we're even looking at building out a small, very small, uh, v. Of sneak team next. Very small, very early stage, but what does it look like for us to cut equity checks as well? After that, then connect you with other folks in the ecosystem, right?
Kinetic innovation's, amazing organization, the BC arm, the state. If you wanna get to that next level, if it's appropriate and if it's applicable, S B I R. Trying to get down some federal funding for you to get that phase one or phase two to get to that next step. And also share up your product as well.
And that doesn't even include all the other organizations that are in the state that advance cts, the concepts, the Cs, that are also tried and true partners in helping this one entrepreneur get their their business off the ground. So what I really like about CT Next is that we have our own suite of resources.
But we're also very much plugged in into the larger alphabet sloop of resources for entrepreneurs in the state. So for us, I think we just try to organize the resources around and try to create a clear map. So where you end up is not contingent on where you start. I want folks to start, whether it's CT Next or Reset or W BDC or any of our amazing partners, start where you need to start.
And we need to have an ecosystem clear enough so everyone understands the assets that they're able to have access to, and able to navigate it in a way that's available and accessible. Uh, so, and we're very much in the early stage. We're very much in the early stage. Yeah. But I love the fact that not only can you personally assist at CT.
But also that you are a fantastic gateway to these other organizations to guarantee, you know, almost a bespoke plan, if you like, for Yeah, the, the entrepreneurs coming to you. So it's really not a one size fits all, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I love that about that. It's really personalized. Yeah.
Thank you. I completely agree. So what does the average day look like for, uh, an executive director? Wow. Wow. Big title. Big job, . Average day. Oh man. Wake up early. Think about going to the gym. Probably don't feel guilty about it. , uh, I'm a light eater. I'm not a big breakfast guy, so I usually do a shot of espresso in like a banana and then I hop in.
I mean, really what keeps me. Keeps me excited every day, especially where we are right now in the organization. I have a fantastic team. I have a fantastic team. I'm the luckiest ed in the world because I get to work with such a diverse, brilliant group of folks who every day, Want to be better than they were the day before.
There's nothing really more I can ask, so a lot of checking with the team, making sure folks are good, making sure, you know, I'm replying to my emails and and not being a, a bottleneck for their success. And then always try to connect with one new person a day if I can just have a quick conversation. Hey, how's it going?
I think community building is such an important job or such important aspect of this role, and I think crucial to building that ecosystem in which everyone can thrive. So, I mean, I, I look at all the calls I have as an opportunity for me to be mentored, uh, no matter who it is. You know, a young buing entrepreneur or you know, the head of a BC firm anywhere in the world, right?
I have the opportunity to talk to a lot of people and be connected with folks across all ecosystems and geography. So, Always an opportunity to be a, a constant student of this work and of these sectors that I, I wanna invest in long term in the, in the state of Connecticut can succeed with long term. Uh, love that.
Then, you know, I just try to find time to do some emails. I'm not the best inbox is, uh, I, I don't know. Mine's terrifying. I feel you. Yeah, I, I assume this is a, this is a family friendly show, so I can't use the language. I'm not, I need to describe my inbox, but, uh, it's a thing, so, you know, just, you know, prioritize, crank out some emails, find some food, somewhere in between all that, and then, You know, call it a day.
So a lot of it's just, again, one, making sure my team is good, especially now we're trying to scale up, get the next level, build a culture and structure that makes the most sense for everyone. And then, you know, two, connect with people as needed. And then three, try to find some quiet time to, you know, put on my headphones, you know, put on some light jazz and crank out.
Some emails, you know, I knew you were gonna say jazz. I wish I protected. Then if I could have had a guess, I would've gone with that. . You know what I love about what you've just shared with us, in fact is a, is your humility of saying that you are always open-minded and looking for the next opportunity to be mentored.
And also, of course, one of the roles is gonna be to mentor others. But I love that you come from such a learning perspective and that of one where you wanna physically grow and and develop more and more. I think that passion is really, if you could bottle it, you'd be one. Hell of an entrepreneur. . Thank you.
Thank you. I tell myself all the time, I'm, I'm a recovering entrepreneur. I think once , once the first business, I mean, yeah, once I'm lick, I'm done licking my wound. I'm given the startup a decade ago, hop back in the game. But it's been a good time. Yeah, for sure. And also you touched on the, you know, the importance of your team and how incredible your team are.
And that does lead us onto sort of a real staple for conscious capitalism is, you know, the culture, the leader. Of your organization, the Curious Capitalist Podcast. On behalf of the Conscious Capitalism Connecticut chapter is created and produced by Red Rock Branding. If you are enjoying this episode, please subscribe to and share this podcast today.
What language would you use to describe your organization's culture and does it have a definable kind of character? I guess I'm a huge, huge, huge, huge on culture. Huge on culture, and I think it's the most important aspect of any, any well defined, highly skilled team. So for me, you know, the words I use a lot are consistency.
You know, Socrates said we are what we continuously do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit. And that's something I really lean in on my team, like we have to get up and do this every day. We're not a flash the pan, we don't have these cool one off wins every day. We get up and get the job done.
Abundance. You know, thinking about we have all the resources within our organization, within our state, within the country, within the world. We have everything we need to exist, and where we have all the resources we need to thrive now is just opportunity to put it together and get it out the door in a way where it helps as many people as possible that we're here to help the entrepreneurs, the innovators, and all the stakeholders around them.
And then fun. You know, like, I think for me it's like, mm-hmm , we can do this and. Fun. Have fun and fun Does not come at the cost of a high level execution. I think if anything, that fun and that playfulness allows you to work even better. You know, and that's what I'm finding in my organization right now.
Like we have a lot of fun and we get the job done in a way that we're not sacrificing either one. And then the last one just like respect, empathy, you know, what they call soft skills, which I think are the hardest skills in the world. So I kind of reframed it to, you know, making sure we have the head skills and also the heart skills to able to do this work at a high level.
So, you know, and it's all about embedding it into the dna. The organization, right? Every Monday meeting we end with Roses and Thorns that we wanna share with the group. You know, things that. Gone extremely well in learning opportunities over the past week, whether it's professional or personal when finding, I know, what do you call it, roses or thorns?
Roses and thorns. Yeah. So we call it pits and peaks, . Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. I like yours. But I mean, that's so crucial, finding intentional ways to build that type of stuff into the organization's dna. It's like, you know, it's how we just do. We don't do work. And then staple on this kind of Oh yeah. And we're doing the culture thing.
It's like no, embedded into the DNA organization is culture and the work both held at a high level. So that's, that's what I'm trying to build. That's what we're doing. I see. Tx, it's been a lot of fun and it's been a pleasure to do with the folks around the. You know, and I think you're right, it's consistency is such an, an important word when we're talking about leadership and culture in particular.
It, it's really easy to write a really flowery, powerful, even mm-hmm. kind of mission statement and write your core values. But if you're not living them, it doesn't count. And what's. He's our chair of Conscious Capitalism here in Connecticut. He always quotes the figures of, of how much time employees spend in their, their job, essentially.
Mm. And how vital it is that we get a bit of balance and that we also have fun. And I, so I love the fact that you touched on that. I do feel you get the best outta people if they're obviously engaged and enjoying themselves and having fun is, is always. So when it comes to your culture that you have now that you are growing in and you are working on all the time, but how do you measure that?
How do you measure that with, with the people you are working with and your team? Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a couple ways, and it's tough cuz you know, it's, there are measurable ways, you know, I think a highly effective, efficient culture gets stuff done. So are we getting things out the door? Are people honoring their staff's time, their teammate's time, and asking the right questions, holding people accountable.
And understanding, you know, if there's a deadline, we, we need to hit our deadlines because you're honoring the person that you're heading the baton to and you're not putting them in a position where they're not able to succeed, right? Just like, Hey, I appreciate you as a colleague so much. I want you to win.
I'm gonna get my issue together and handle the you in a beautiful way so you can just go and fly forward. Right? I'm not gonna like fumble the baton pass in a way that's not helpful. I think that's one thing. I think another way we kind of measure it is also, you know, what it means to be a part of a community where it can be open and honest.
Right. I think one thing that I always say is most of the time out and wrong, and that's okay. Right. But I think the most important part is for me to be held accountable in this work and be able to do this work continuously at a high. In a way that can allow us to get this job done together. So I think those are kinda ways that, that we're measuring it, right?
Just being able to come together, get the job done in a way that we're hitting our internal external deadlines. We're coming together to get the job done in terms of the conversation that we're having, how we're having those conversations, and creating an open, transparent, communicative environment. Mm, absolutely.
How do you. The success of that with your employees? How do you get an accurate picture, essentially of how happy, I guess, your employees are and the entrepreneurs that you serve? How do you get an impression of that? Yeah, so I think that the measurement really stems from surveys and conversations, one-on-ones.
You know, I think there's anecdotal check-ins around, Hey, are you good? How are you? What do you need? There's surveys of saying, Hey, do you feel like you're able to do your highest and best work in this organization at this time? Right? There's a lot of different ways that we can have the conversations, but a lot of it's just.
One, having those conversations around like measurement in terms of surveys and then having those conversations around the one-on-ones with staff and check-ins, and then also I think the quality of the work shows. Right. You know, I think individuals know when they're doing great work and they know when they, you know, kind of need to step it up.
And having that accountability. So the measurement, it's, you know, sometimes it's quantifiable, sometimes it's not. But it's also just having a pulse of understanding where you need to go. Providing that vision, helping people at there. But it's hard. It's hard, you know, there's no answer if, but that's something I'm always struggling with.
Cause it's more of like a feel than I think a particular, like quantifiable 90% of the. You know what I mean? It's like, it's tough to balance. Sometimes it's difficult. You can't put it in an Excel spreadsheet, that's for sure. Exactly, exactly. There's no amount of equations and are gonna work that out.
However, I guess you, you get a good idea of how content your staff are and the people you are working with are when they keep coming back and you know, and I think that's always a really good indicator now. You and I, we met at a conscious capitalism event, conscious capitalism in Connecticut. We met at an event.
Yeah. When did you first hear about Conscious capitalism and how did you get hooked into it? Yeah, so I actually heard about it a little while ago at my coffee shop. We worked with Reset Social Enterprise Trust to pass Benefit Corporation legislation in the state of Connecticut. I spoke in front of the Connecticut State legislature as well as others to kind of provide a little bit of insights to why it's needed, and my business partner and I were actually one of the first B-Corps in the state of Con.
No way. So as I, yeah, yeah. It's a frame. Yeah. Yeah. from raising your eyebrows. It is coffee grinded. Look at that . So that, I mean, that was a lot of fun just going through that process. But I think even on the other side, more importantly, that's what I learned about the kind benefit corporation, conscious capitalism.
And really thinking about other forms of economic models, you know, whether it's work around cooperatives or conscious capitalism or economic justice work. I think all of that. At the time when I was building out the Happiness Lab too, trying to find the ways to embed people, planet Profit again into the DNA organization, I looked at a lot of different models and conscious capitalism being one among.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's a great community, isn't it? I mean, I think that's the thing I found is that the sharing of resources, which is so similar to the the line of work essentially, that you know that you are in not just the board members, but our members and the Conscious Leaders network, that collaborative approach to doing better, doing business better is invaluable.
So I'm gonna ask for your suggestion, your advice. Now it's time for an Advice Corner, Claire, and only do Advice Corner. I need a soundtrack on that. If a company that came to you wanted to make a shift towards being a more conscious business, what would your advice be? First off, my first base of advice is, Why?
Why do you wanna make that shift? If, you know, business wants to make that shift because they think it's an amazing marketing differentiator. You're in it for the wrong reasons and you're never gonna win with your consumers cause it's gonna be inauthentic. Yep. So it has to come from the, I mean, especially entrepreneurship, you know, in an organization, especially if you're a CEO or founder, the organizational values are just an individual's values at scale.
So if individuals don't. Values that align with how they think about conscious capitalism or the organization that they wanna be and the individual that they wanna be, then that misalignment is going to show. So I think first it takes a lot of internal work to say, why? Why do I wanna choose this path of conscious capitalism?
And then I think once that alignment is there internally, then it's about having the conversation of, okay, where. Where do I start and how genuine am I gonna be about that? Right? Cause people try to boil the ocean, try and do everything for everyone, and that's just not going to work. But you know, for us it's the small things.
You know, back in the day in the coffee roasting company, we had compostable bags, right? Small but helpful, also, not helpful. People were just used to throwing out coffee bags and not composting them. Are we making a change or just doing something that felt good to. Right. But we also did, you know, in the coffee shop, we also made it a point of emphasis to have the best smelling stove we could find.
Because even that moment of happiness, you know what I mean, like that I totally do. Those small amounts of happiness go a long way in building out the customer experience and building out experience for all the stakeholders. So it's those small things that I think get lost, but those are the some of the first ways that individuals interact with their brand.
And it shows, again, the intentionality of what you're trying to bring to the forefront with the kind of conscious capitalism or just intentionality. How you're interacting with all your stakeholders. So I would say the first thing you do, do the internal work, and secondly, choose a couple of small steps and then kind of build it up from there.
So it can be an organization that reflects your values. And get great smelling hand soap in the toilet . I'm telling you, I am a girl who notices good sniffs . So if you could snap your fingers and make one cultural change happen at your company, what would it be and why? I think it would be me being more patient, because I think the culture shift right now as an entre.
I'm always trying to push, push, push, push, push, which I think is good. And I think something that my, you know, my team really appreciates that level of accountability and the, you know, if you're at CT next you're gonna get stuff done. No choice about that. But you know, I think for me, again, the culture right now is just a reflection of who I am at scale.
With a dozen people. So I think for me, I would wanna change of a culture of more patience and consistency, and I think I'm doing this slowly, but not necessarily feeling like we're in a rush. I tell my team all the time, we need to be a metron of. Right. No matter all the noise around us, we're on our own time and on our own pace.
And introducing a bit more of patience. Yes. And system and introducing a bit more patience and grace into that I think would be really, really helpful. And I think that stems myself. So, you know, Giving my, if I can snap my fingers and be a more patient person, I think that'll be resounding. But I'll have resounding effects on organizational culture.
And again, it starts with me. That's the little, uh, the cheesy. I also, it's a beautiful answer. I ask you a question about what would you change within your company, which could have been anything and you brought it back to you and what you can do in your leadership role. So fair play to you. Last couple of questions, then let's find out a little bit about you, shall we?
When. Focused on your work. What do you like to do to relax or unwind sports tv. I'm a big wine guy. I'm a big wine, wine, jazz, and basketball. Oh my gosh, please. Yeah. Could be odi . Yeah. If you, you know, there's, you know, something called low interventions, which I'm not into. Right? But long story short, Gimme a bottle of a funky wine and some incredible conversation.
I am in my happy place. So that's how I kind of unwinded and also recharge. Beautiful. Love it. Absolutely love it. So, uh, I just wanna know if you could have a dinner party. Okay. Imagine the only dinner party. The cuisine would be incredible. The wine would be fabulous. Of course, the background music obviously is gonna be smooth.
Oh, top tier. Tell me, give me a couple of people. It could be a figure in history, it could be a family member, it could be a friend. Who would you want at your dinner table? I would do Virgil Ablo. I would have Marsha p Johnson there. I'd have James Baldwin, probably Picasso. I don't know how good his English is, but that would be interesting.
That would be an interesting one there. What questions would you ask these people? Why and. Like why? Like why did you choose, oh, Malcolm X would be there completely. Why did you choose a journey you chose and then how did you do it? Right? I think there's so much wisdom within these people just providing opportunities of like understanding their why and then really digging into the how would be incredible day Chappelle.
You know, as polarizing as he is, I think that'll be an interesting person to have in conversation. Sure. The overriding theme, it's incredible. The overriding theme only with you and I find you really infectious, is you are always, always have that first for, for knowledge and to know why and how, and I love that about you.
You know, it's always open minded and uh, I always feel that people who are prepared to ask the questions and not say I. All the time of a richer life for it and, uh, and ultimately will end up more successful. So, credit to you. Credit to you. Thank you. So come on, if people wanna get in touch with you, maybe they are a budding entrepreneur, maybe they're just interested in the work that you are doing.
Maybe they're just interested in what wine you are drinking, how can they reach out to you and get in touch? Is there a website, social media, LinkedIn, et cetera? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely LinkedIn. Definitely LinkedIn Connect. Shoot me a message. Definitely email me o n. E K A O B io, C A CT next.com. Again, I said before my inbox is not my proudest moment, but I try to reply to folks as timely as possible, and timely might mean different things to different people.
Uh, But you know, those was the two things, you know, definitely reached out. Happy to have the conversation if you need anything particular, happy to put you touch on or, and then from there, but learning from people. And just being part of this organization Absolutely amazing and truly inspiring. And I think if there's one takeaway from this that people should take is, I love the fact that you reach out and connect with one new person a day.
What an absolute golden rule to live by, to grow your network and, and enricher life. It's a fabulous bit of life advice, as much as business advice only. It's been a privilege and a pleasure speaking to you today. I, uh, I really do appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being a part of the Curious Capital.
Thank you for having me. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode of The Curious Capitalist. If you would like to find out more about Conscious Capitalism or if you would like to join the local chapter, visit the website, Connecticut dot conscious capitalism.org. The Curious Capitalist is available on all podcast platforms, including Apple Podcast.
Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. If you have enjoyed listening to this episode, subscribe to and share this podcast today. This podcast was created and produced by Red Rock Branding. Red Rock branding.com.