Michael F. Schein is the Head Hype Artist at MicroFame Media, a company that specializes in making idea-based businesses famous in their fields.

In today's episode of Smashing the Plateau, you will learn one of the success secrets used by the world’s greatest self-promoters.

Michael and I discuss:

• How he uses his “Secret Society” concept [03:20]
• How to start a “Secret Society” [08:59]
• The rise in interest in communities [13:51]
• The unique value Michael offers his “Secret Society” [17:14]
• When Michael started his “Secret Society” [20:09]
• The results Michael has observed from participants [21:46]
• Michael’s ideal client [26:05]

Learn more about Michael at http://microfamemedia.com, https://www.hypereads.com/list, https://twitter.com/MichaelSchein1, and https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfrancisschein/.

Thank you to our sponsors: 

The Smashing the Plateau Community

https://community.smashingtheplateau.com

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https://smashingtheplateau.com/circle

People who are really good at, making things happen, always

make it seem like their success is grassroots, but in reality, they

also have people underneath the surface, pulling the strings and

they know how to make that happen.

Welcome to Smashing the Plateau.

We help consultants, coaches, entrepreneurs, and small business

owners build their business after a long career as an employed professional.

We believe you should be able to do what you love and get paid

what you're worth, consistently.

I'm your host, David Shriner-Cahn.

Today on Smashing the Plateau, I'm speaking with the head hype artist

at MicroFame Media, Michael F.

Schein.

In today's episode, you will learn one of the success secrets used by

the world's greatest self-promoters.

Stay with us to hear all the details.

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Learn more at smashingtheplateau.com.

Now, let's welcome Michael F.

Schein.

Michael is the head hype artist at MicroFame Media, a company that

specializes in making idea-based businesses famous in their fields.

Some of his clients have included eBay, Magento, The Medici Group,

University of Pennsylvania, Gordon College, University of California

Irvine, United Methodist Publishing House, Ricoh, LinkedIn, and Citrix.

His writing has appeared in Fortune, Forbes, Inc., Psychology Today, and

Huffington Post, and he is a speaker for international audiences spanning

from the Northeastern United States to the Southeastern coast of China.

12 Indispensable Success Secrets From

the World's Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders,

Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers, published by McGraw

Hill, appears where books are sold.

Michael, welcome back to the show, great to have you on again.

Hey, David, it's great to be here.

Obviously, one of my favorite places to be.

And then you were one of my favorite guests.

So the last time you were on Smashing the Plateau, you had actually just

published your book, The Hype Handbook, and we discussed reverse engineering

as a way to make people take an action.

In particular, you mentioned during our interview that you try out all of

your hype concepts on yourself, first.

Now you have just launched, what you refer to as a secret society, which

is your second strategy in your book, what kinds of results have you seen?

First of all, the book release, which I can't believe

it was two years ago now, has really transformed everything for me, the

secret society is one of the strategies and that's the newest sort of horizon.

I may base a new book on it.

It looks like, and I'm trying it out on myself, but, to provide a little bit of

context, I always used what I call hype.

So I, for anyone who doesn't know the first interview or my work.

I guess you would call me a professional marketer, but I've never thought of

myself that way, because I look at people who are really good at driving

a whole lot of attention and excitement around whatever it is, they're trying

to put out into the world who don't think of themselves as marketers.

So you'll look at a rock band manager or a rat manager or in some negative

areas, a cult leader or a propaganda artist, and those people understand

mass psychology better than any professional marketer that I've ever seen.

Some of them put it to negative ends.

I've always gone out of my way to repurpose these things ethically, but

because no one knew about my idea, about this concept of what I call hype,.

I used to have to call myself a marketer.

So I had a marketing agency.

We were just talking before the call started, doing all of the, just sort of

social media and nitty gritty stuff, just because that's what people expect from

an agency having to explain to people why you have an unorthodox point of view.

And it was a living and a good living, but, it's always a little bit like

pulling teeth and with the book, people now know me as the hype guy, right?

So apparently in the tech startup world, for example, there's a lot of talk

about how do we hype our products up.

And now I'm the guy who wrote the book on it.

So now I can really proudly go out into the world and say, I can sell you hype

Instead of I can sell you marketing.

And as a result, everything's changed.

we're a hundred percent focused on turning companies into ethical height machines

and generating everything that comes with that, whether it's sales or attention

and it all comes from the book, really.

So that's the first thing.

And then in terms of the secret society, so now that I've gotten those wheels

moving and have turned that into a bit of a machine it's time for the next

bold, and I always poke around for ideas for, the, chapter in the book that I

was always, that I really always have gotten a lot out of in my own career,

is one, what I call, build a secret society, create a secret society.

And the idea is that people who are really good at making things happen, always make

it seem like their success is grassroots.

But in reality, they also have people underneath the surface,

pulling the strings and they know how to make that happen.

But when I wrote about that, I used the term secret society

as a tongue in cheek way.

I thought that'd be more fun than calling it like hyper networking.

But then I got interested.

I was like, what about real secret societies?

These groups that you always hear about the Illuminati and the

Freemasons and Skull and Bones.

Why do people create these secret societies?

There must be something in it for them.

and you always hear these stories about people creating these secret

societies to control the world and do these sinister things.

So I started researching it and what I found was really interesting.

These secret societies, when you do get access into the inner sanctum,

which people have done right.

And have reported on it, the point of the secrecy is the secrecy.

Nothing very special is going on in there.

They're not really protecting anything that interesting.

So they have all kinds of rituals and costumes and

handshakes and all of this stuff.

But ultimately you'll come to the end and they'll do a little speech

about Goodwill toward mankind.

So the reason that people create these secret societies is because all of

that ritual and all of that exclusivity and that you need to be invited in

and that you have to go through all those levels, make it really appealing.

The most accomplished and successful and interesting people

want to be part of these things at different points in history.

And if you just call it a networking circle or a mastermind group, or,

the sheet let metal association of America, people will do it for

their careers, but they won't do it.

It's not fun.

they do it as a chore.

Whereas at their peak, groups like the Freemasons and the Shriners,

which have fallen out of date now, people spent the bulk of their free

time doing that, especially men.

And so I thought it would be interesting to recreate that for the modern

world, the way that sort of Soho house recreated the gentleman's club of the

18 hundreds for a modern audience.

I thought it would be really interesting to create a modern version of a

secret society instead of a plain old networking group or mastermind.

So I created a group called The Ludic Circle and I went to my mailing list,

which has, A lot of just people like you and me, but I noticed that once in

a while, someone really prominent would join the list and I reached out to them

and, with all the magic and mystery that a secret society would hint toward.

I invited them in and, Their response was really big.

So now we have this group, that I can't tell you who's on it, obviously what

we do there, but I have this group of people who we do these really cool

things, once, on a scheduled period of time, we meet up and we help each

other, ultimately get big things done.

Is there a secret to getting the secret society started?

I think there are a couple of things.

First of all, I think that it's really important to embrace your

theatrical side to not ironically, to not take yourself too seriously.

So we're all familiar with the Shriners, right?

Do you know the Shriners?

have you ever heard of that group

in case somebody isn't familiar with it?

Why don't you describe them?

So the Shriners were these, it was a group, a club, they're

less popular than they once were.

Like, all of these groups are for various reasons.

And the reasons have more to do with, there was a group called Bowling

Alone about how people are, a lot of this, the things that held society

together for a long time have frayed, but that's a different kind of issue.

But the Shriners were a group that, it was an offshoot of the Freemasons ,and

it was called like the mystical Shriners of something or other, I don't know.

And these business people, and back then it was usually men, but business

men, this and that they would wear these little like fez hats, that

they, imagined was from Turkey.

And, they had these sort of Crescent symbols, and they drove

around in these little cars.

And, you could easily think why would these grown men,

these professionals do this.

it was fun.

it was a club.

If you wore that little hat, if you drove that little car, you're really

committing yourself to this group, this is an identity thing now, I'm a Shriner.

If I show up to a mastermind group or a networking group, that's

something you can just drop out of when it doesn't help you anymore.

If you were in a parade, driving a little car, wearing a little

fez, that's your identity, right?

So what's interesting about this is the Shriners do so much good.

This goofy group of guys, they have raised probably billions of dollars

at this point for hospitals, right?

The Shriner's hospitals are very famous and we often don't connect the two.

And so I think the first thing is creating a sense of mystique, right?

Whatever your modern version of the secret handshake, the special codes, the special

language, the special location, the special costumes don't ignore that stuff.

And I'm sure a lot of people listening right now are like, oh, I'm never

doing that in a million years.

That, that's your choice.

Do a version of it that works for you.

But that's the kind of thing that really does bond people together.

So how do you pick what those things are?

A good place to start, is to think about what are the things that

are cheap for you to give up and very valuable for other people.

So I met a guy early in, in my career, at least in this career, which is

about a decade or so old who literally started a business from his garage.

people use that metaphorically.

He started a, a security like alarm type business from his garage and it

grew to $500 million of revenue a year.

So I interviewed this gentleman for Inc.

Magazine cause I happened to be writing there and he was perfectly cordial and

nice, but, no real connection until he mentioned to me that he had just moved

from Indianapolis to New York City.

And one of the reasons was he absolutely loves live music and they don't

have the live music in Indianapolis and he wanted to go see, the club.

So now at the time I was like in my early thirties and I was at the tail end

of where I still was really interested in live music and I would go out still.

And so I knew these places in New York, so I offered to take

him around, to these clubs.

So it was the only thing I could have possibly given this guy.

I could have said to him, how can I help you?

Who can I introduce to you all of these things that we always

say in networking groups?

And it would've been meaningless to him, but by keeping my ears

and eyes open to something that was really easy for me to do.

And very valuable to him, it was really a big deal.

And he became a massive mentor in my career and whatever success I have, I

think he had a lot to, to do with it.

So what is it that you're doing in the group once you create all that

theatricality, whatever form that takes.

What happens once you're there.

And if it's just, we're going to sit around a table and give favors

and introductions and leads.

there's other places you can go for that.

Think about what are some things in your world.

That you can give access to.

Is it a special location that only you have access to?

some after hours, vault from the civil war that only you have access

to because your family was involved.

Whatever, if you can make a list of those things that almost seem

like no big deal to you, but that might be interesting to other people

before, it you've built a mystique and these don't have to be expensive.

Yeah, one thing that comes to my mind as you're describing

this, Mike is the rise and interest in communities, particularly, I think there's

been a leap forward in the last couple years due to COVID, of online communities.

and now there are also lots of new tools that are available to support the

infrastructure of these communities.

I'm wondering what connection you might see between the, your concept

of a secret society and what may be happening in these micro-communities.

I think civilizations or societies or whatever you want to

call it, go through ebbs and flows.

Like I think history is really cyclical and, there's this

really nice idea of progress that we're like Martin Luther King.

Who obviously was wonderful, had this comment, the arc of history

as long, but it bends toward justice, with due respect to Dr.

King.

I'm not sure he was right.

I don't think that there is a story to history.

I think that human beings make those stories in their minds

because we're story, making animals.

I think that history is very cyclical.

And so I think for many years, especially after WWII, people were joiners.

People joined communities, you would talk to anybody and they were a member of three

or four clubs, the Elks Clubs, The Rotary Club, the, this the, that they were in.

I just read a short story.

I was reading an old science fiction, short story from the fifties and all the

people he knew he was in a chess club.

He was in a book club.

He was into this.

And I think honestly with the baby boomers, who are, for all the

talk of peace and love, are very individualistic as a whole, and about

personal fulfillment, those joining groups dissolved, it was more about

what can I do to maximize my own, meanness my fulfillment, right?

And that's not all bad.

I mean that people went on spiritual journeys, all kinds of things,

but I think we're in a new cycle.

I think they're going to be new societies and new technologies.

But, this generation didn't grow up the way the baby boomers grew up.

They didn't grow up the way gen X grew up.

They, Millennials and Gen Z.

I also think that the last 10 years have been hard and they may

get harder before they get better.

we've had a massive pandemic.

We've had Wars, they didn't hit home, but they were wars, nevertheless,

we've had two financial collapses.

And so I think.

I think this is what's behind the Great Resignation.

I don't think it's so much that people are not wanting to go back to work.

I think they're looking at their lives before the pandemic that they were

sleep walking through and looking what happened since and what they

were able to do with technology and without technology and saying, I'm

not so sure I want to go back to that.

So I think people are looking to join again.

People are looking for solidarity, especially because of how lonely

everyone was during that pandemic.

I think now that we're able to meet again, some of it's going to happen online,

some of it's going to happen offline.

I think most of it's going to be a hybrid, but I expect to see my prediction is

we're going to see a new era of joining and I think it's already starting.

And I think that's a good thing.

I don't think that has to be like, oh, the sheep are walking off the cliff.

I think there's something too being part of a group with mutually

shared values and interest.

Because, and that's how people, as you said, people help

one another through these groups.

Yeah.

So go going back to your group.

what is it that you offer that's easy and valuable for you to offer that's good

for the members of your secret society.

Part of it without getting too much into the detail,

because that would defeat the purpose.

But part of it is that we tried to select people and continue to select

people that are some combination of really imaginative, almost artistic

and in some cases, truly artistic and also very commercially minded in terms

of that, that they're builders, right?

They're not, so it's not just all art for art's sake and it's not all just

let's trade leads and, do business.

But it's those people who were out there really imagining

things and making them happen.

And we've really picked and chose people and we continue to that go together.

Now, I think I may have mentioned on this show before, I've spent many

years exploring interests that have nothing to do with my core business.

So for years, I was really interested in this movement, and continued to be

of something called Immersive Theater.

And I, I never felt that it really, hit its full potential, but there's

this thing called Sleep No More.

It's this site specific theater I'm really interested in immersive

entertainment of various sorts.

Obviously I'm interested in storytelling.

I still hit write fiction and theatricality.

So there's elements of all that we're really trying to create

experiences for people so that you don't just show up around a table.

As I've said a lot of time.

Talk about what you need from a business perspective that you come to

the group and have a real experience.

And that's not done in a way that, costs a hundred thousand dollars every time.

In fact, all of the members chip in, in various ways.

But, just like when you went to, a Freemasons meeting, everyone was

wearing an apron and doing different degrees and saying things in Latin,

but ultimately there was no agenda.

It was a drinking club.

But a drinking club that had a big networking component,

it cost money to get in.

It was very selective, but people came for the experience.

The floor was always a checker board.

So I would say we're trying or have created something a little bit like that.

where the ,people involved and the experience when you get

there is what it's all about.

Now, there are things, I mean, there are, there are recommendations of

books and media there's expo, there's connections to, if you're trying to

promote something, there's connections to other people that can help you promote it.

We're trying to pull strings for each other.

In fact, we were thinking of calling it the, international back scratcher society.

But we, we abandoned that idea.

Does that answer your question?

I'm speaking around the subject because I don't want to, I'm trying

to in the spirit of secret society.

No, I I get that and I, yeah, it describes it enough.

How long ago did you invite the first people in.

Only about six months, it really is something that we started

cheap and dirty, which we were able to do.

Because like you said, there's the internet and we're really

relying on the people in the group.

So it's not about, Mike Schein has to create a production every week.

It's Hey, this is a group of people who have chosen to be together.

Here are the guidelines and the rules.

And as a result, we all help co-create it.

So I guess that's another point.

If you want to create a secret society, if you like this strategy, what I would

say is come up with the rules of the game.

So in other words, the frame is the most important part of the picture.

Restrictions create creativity.

So what do you want your group to be like, and get imaginative.

Do people have to, when they come to the door, do they have to not

disclose their true identity?

If so, why?

Just for fun.

Would that defeat the purpose?

Is there a way to make that work and still have it be productive?

I don't know.

come up with almost at 10 commandments for what your group is, and you'll

see this with a lot of these, a lot of old art movements, like the

Surrealists or the Dada movement, they were almost like secret societies.

And they always had to manifesto and business uses manifesto a lot, but

they were creating real manifestos.

They would be like art cannot, be representative.

Representation in art is obsolete.

you can do a lot with within that, but it also tells you what

you are and what you're not.

And I think what you're not is probably just

as important as what you are

probably the most important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What kinds of results have you seen?

I know it's fairly early on six months.

Isn't a huge amount of time, but what's happened so far?

I was always a big quote unquote networker.

Which is why I wrote that chapter in the book, but I would see after mastering

the traditional networking thing, I realized the flaws with it very quickly,

and this has been going on for years.

So the basic idea between behind networking is that you should go

around, there's a lot of good in this by the way, you should go

around and be out as much as you can.

So have as many coffees as you can, go to cocktail events, go to

networking events, join masterminds, join BNI, And what you then should

do is look for opportunities to make connections and make introductions.

And if you do that enough, what people say, which I don't believe is that

the universe will return it to you.

that's obviously, unless you're, Rhonda Byrne with The Secret, that obviously

isn't what happens is people feel a sense of reciprocity and over time they're

going to want to help you out in return.

There's a lot of value in all of that.

The problem with it, however, is that everyone gets the game now.

You'll often get people.

And I don't know if you've experienced this David, where someone will call

you up on the phone for one of these networking things and almost like a

script of like, how can I help you?

What can I do for you?

How can I serve you?

And then the next day you'll get five introductions and it's

like a chore, cuz you don't really want to meet these people.

But it's like how the game is played.

So then you give them three introductions.

What we've done is tried to create an environment where help

is given where help is needed.

so Ryan Holiday, James Altucher, Tim Ferris, these

guys are friends, good friends.

So when one of them has a book, the other, people will promote the

book, Because they have this club.

So yeah.

so far people have opened their ears to what people have

needed in a very real way.

And I've helped them.

I started a new line of business, which is very connected to my, my, my core

business, which we can talk about.

And I think, typically it would've taken years to get it off the ground, but I

think largely because of my group, I got introductions, which led to business

very quickly and things like that.

I think a, another lesson here is that, even if you just take from this,

the typical networking stuff, it's very important to surround yourself

with the right level of people.

And I don't mean that in a put down kind of way, but like when I was

first using some of these strategies, I was naturally very good at it.

So I was part of a group called network that I think I met you through years ago.

And it's a wonderful group, it's kinda like BNI for business to business, but the

people were all like, I was at the time pretty well half successful entrepreneurs,

but usually just one or two people, some weren't, some were struggling.

And so I would get people really excited and do the favors and do the intro.

and then they would be chomping at the bit to make introductions to me.

And when I got there and I would quote my prices, which are a fraction of what

they are now, people would go green.

it seemed very expensive to them.

and I said to myself, what am I doing wrong?

And then I was accidentally at a producer's Guild event, which I was

invited to by a friend to live tweet by Blaine Graboyes who we both know..

And, it cost $5,000 to get in, but I got in for free and I, no one knew that.

So I was there and I was leaning against a table charging my phone

and a woman started to talk to me.

One thing led to another, she became a client and I quoted her

my fee and it was like nothing.

And I said to myself, this is the problem.

I'm not, I'm doing this thing, but I'm doing it with people.

Who are at the same level as me.

And I don't mean that morally or as friends.

in terms of the fact that they couldn't pay $5,000 to get into an event.

So I think one of the things that this has done for me, because we've

been so selective with it, is that.

The water we're swimming of is a very, is the kind of

people who can get things done.

so when you help someone out in this circle and provide a good experience

for them and, as will inevitably happen, they want to help you.

The kind of help they can give is pretty top notch.

Yeah.

No, it sounds like you've done a phenomenal job at, employing

one of your own strategies.

So congratulations on what you've built with your secret society before

we close out, can you just, maybe talk a little bit about who your ideal

client is and what you do for them now?

Yeah, I'll tell you about this new group of clients that we've

been working with, that has been the most exciting thing I've done in years.

So it's really interesting, like most things that I've done in my life,

anxiety and, seeing things the wrong way led to a benefit and something good.

I had this client called PopUp and I bring up their name, becuase they're

a fantastic company and best client I've had in the last five years.

And forgiveness to all my other clients had a lot of great clients,

but what made them so great is they checked all the boxes.

So they were a funded tech startup.

So not funded the way some people say they're funded, like they're

tapping into their old legacy business to fund their new business,

but the business doesn't have legs.

They were funded by a venture capital company because they believed that

much in the company and they had the fundamentals really good product.

A whole team to help with things the people showed up every week, because

what we do now is we, the, our clients have to really play a very proactive

role in hyping themselves up because we find that when people have skin in

the game and we give them the ideas and the frameworks and the blueprints and

all of that, and not the blueprints, but the tools when they get involved,

they, it just gets woven into their DNA.

They would do more work than we would ask 'em to do their

results were through the roof.

They were getting all kinds of attention.

They would take what we built for them and multiply it.

And then one day after about six and they told me every week, how happy

they were, And, But one day after six months, they wrote me an email that said,

Hey, we love you, but we're finished working with you, at least for now.

and I was like, what do you mean finish working with me?

This is my best client.

They love me.

I don't get it right.

So I got on the line with them and they said, Mike, everything we said is true.

We're not finished working with you because we don't like you we're finished

because we, you did, we made it happen.

And we want one more thing from you.

We want everyone in our organization and everyone attached to our organization

to have, marching orders for hyping ourselves up the way we've learned how to.

So what we did is we created a hype guide, a personalized guide that

codified every experiment that we did for them that worked every hype

strategy that we cracked the code to.

We put it in a big fat document, that they use now.

And they're just growing and growing and growing.

So I decided.

there were all these companies out there.

so it turns out that tech startups are all thinking about

how can they hype themselves up.

They use that word and they want to do it ethically.

They want to make sure the product is good, but they get frustrated that the

companies with all the hype have 300 million valuations and they have a 5

million valuation and there's a science to hyping something up and doing it

ethically, as long as the product is good.

And what they're doing to solve the problem is, they're hiring

branding firms, branding agencies to do a brand book, and they think

that's going to help with the hype.

And it helps.

You need a logo.

You need color.

But it's not solving the problem and they're spending a lot of money on that.

So what we've decided to do is work with tech startups to do what we

did for PopUp to, instead of them having to go to a branding agency,

we're saying, look, we're going to spend X number of months with you.

Work with you to systematically figure out based on mass psychology, we know works.

What hype strategies, will work in your world, do small experiments to

make sure they work, make them very specific for your world, get a result.

And then as soon as we know what the formula is for hyping yourself up in

a certain way, on some aspect, codify it, document it and do that a couple

of times until we have the formula.

And, it's like what a brand book is, but actually for the thing that they want.

So in some ways I think it's the best work that we've ever done because the,

these funded tech startups what's so wonderful about them is that they have

all the pieces in place, their product is, if it's not already amazing,

the fundamentals are so strong that they got someone to invest in them.

They're doing really forward thinking, cool cutting edge work, and they're

hard workers and open minded.

The only thing they don't always have is this systematic knowledge

of how to generate a huge amount of attention and emotion.

And we really like what, why I love doing it is I'd much rather see these

great companies doing that than quite frankly, Adam Neumann from WeWork or

the guy from Uber who also have good products, but who are egomaniacs and,

honestly they give a bad name to hype because you can really generate that kind

of emotion and attention without being unethical and without being an egomaniac.

Well said, Thank you for explaining that and congratulations

on what you've done with your book, where things are with you and your business.

If somebody wants to go deeper with anything we've discussed or access

any particular resources, get a copy of your book, where would

be the best place for them to go.

If you do read, The Hype Handbook, or go through

it, that's an encapsulation of a decade plus worth of this work.

So it may turn out that you read the book and you never have to

work with me or someone like me.

Because I, I hope I wrote a really good book and people have, seemed to think so.

And it's just a good way to get a feel for what I do and my ideas.

And all the information about my business is in there.

If you want to go further, but if you want to go directly to my

business, it's, microfamemedia.com, M I C R O F A M E M E D I A .com.

We just redesigned the site and I'm really happy about what we did with it.

Yeah, all of our contact information is there and I'd be happy to talk

to you, whether it's about possibly working with us or just trading some.

Mike, I want to thank you so much for coming back on

another episode of Smashing the Plateau.

It is always great to hear what you're up to.

My guest today has been head hype artist with MicroFame Media, Michael F.

Schein.

Thank you, Michael, for joining us.

Thank you, David.

When you visit the Smashing the Plateau website at

smashingtheplateau.com, you'll find a summary of each episode, along with

the links we mentioned on the show.

On today's episode with Michael Schein, we learned one of the success secrets used

by the world's greatest self promoters.

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I'm David Shriner-Cahn, thank you for taking the time to listen to our show.