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From Nothing to Profit - Matt Hoaglin and Kia Bondurant 10th December 2018
Shalem Kitter – Episode 010 – A Photographer Podcast Interview

Shalem Kitter – Episode 010 – A Photographer Podcast Interview

Today’s podcast we talk with Shalem Kitter, who owns The Studio in Anchorage, Alaska. He and his husband, Mitch, also started, and are continuing, the Love is Love Project. Shalem specializes in senior portraits with fashion projects on the side. He tells us about how he doesn’t think he’d still be in business (due to being in year four of a recession) without the strong systems they’ve built. They’ve made desk manuals (they call them the Studio Bible) for their staff to ensure their clients get a consistent and positive experience, every time. They make sure their clients never leave a touch point empty handed – you’ll want to hear about this!

Shalem also tells us about how they made sure to pay themselves first and how important that is. He recommends we stop looking at other photographers work and focus on making our clients evangelists for our studios.

Online Resource:

Creativemarket.com – weekly freebies


Emyth by Michael Gerber – https://amzn.to/2S7zt3k


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Transcription was done by Temi.com which means it’s an AI generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video.

Shalem: [00:00] This is Shalem Kitter and you’re listening to from nothing to profit.

Speaker 2: [00:05] Welcome to from nothing to profit, a photographer’s podcast with Matt and Kayak where each week they talk to photographers about what is working in their business now so you can swipe those ideas and grow your business faster.

Matt: [00:20] Hey everybody. Welcome to back to the podcast. So today we have shamed kitter who was one of my good friends that lives in Anchorage, Alaska on the show. So let me just give a quick introduction if you guys haven’t seen him, seen his work or follow him. So Shalan and his shame and his husband live in Anchorage, Alaska and they do some really, really amazing work. They mostly specialize in senior portraits, but they’ve been in publishing and tons of magazines and like legit magazines like cosmo girl on American Salon and stuff like that. And then they’ve also. They’ve also been featured on the Huffington Post, buzzfeed and advocate because they did this amazing project called the love is love project. I guess it’s still an active project. [inaudible]. You guys still work on it regularly, so it’s called the love is love project. And it was an, it was like a nationwide photo project promoting equal rights and marriage and equality, but Shannon and I have been friends for awhile. We, um, we met years ago speaking together and we’ve kept in touch ever since. We actually text each other quite often. And so I was really excited to have you on the podcast and so you can tell us exactly what’s working now for you guys and what’s going on in Anchorage.

Kia: [01:31] I’m so excited that you’re here and I am assuming we’ll hear a little bit of it, but I feel like you and I’ve always kind of shared a love of like trends and fashion and that type of thing. And so, um, yeah, I’m super excited to hear all of it. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Very good. So, uh, our first question for you is to share a little bit about what your area of expertise is, what you’re known for, I kind of thing

Shalem: [01:57] then this winding journey for me in the industry, I’ve kind of gone to a lot of different portions of portrait photography, but now I’ve really settled into senior portraits and I kind of differentiate myself by doing some fashion projects as well to kind of build a, a unique brand.

Matt: [02:16] So you and you did a bunch of pro, uh, when you say fashion, you did a bunch of hair stuff for awhile. I don’t know if you’re still doing that, but I know you used some of your fascia stuff was based around here. Is

Shalem: [02:25] that still the case? Yeah, so I started with doing personal projects, really just wanting to have something in photography that was specifically for me and not for clients. Um, and then I started getting noticed and so I ended up working for l’oreal mirror and Redkin and traveling quite a bit with them and working with a lot of hair care companies. And then now I’ve kind of settled into just loving being in Alaska and being home, not being on the road, um, but I still do a fashion projects for fun on the side. So tell me real quick, I mean I know a little because we talk regularly, but tell me kind of what’s working now for you guys up there in Alaska. Like what are you seeing in the senior portrait industry that’s working best for you? Well, I think in Alaska we are in this kind of a tough spot economically in our state.

Shalem: [03:14] So we are in year four of a recession and so that’s been really challenging for us right at the beginning of this we had really changed a lot of our processes, uh, looked at our pricing, really built a strong system and I don’t know if we would be in business now if we hadn’t implemented all those things at the top of this recession. So one of the perspectives that we shifted was we started to think of our studio as a franchise, not in the sense that we would ever sell or we’d ever have franchisees, but we wanted to fine tune our processes, so specifically that it would have value to an outside purchaser. Um, and so this made us look at the production workflows that we have, our client touchpoints and kind of every step through our internal workflow. We started building desk manuals for each position and each step of how we do what we do.

Shalem: [04:14] We basically did all the not sexy things in photography, but they are the things that have really yield a lot of success and I think all of our top competitors over the last few years have had to close their doors while we’ve been able to stay a level and actually see growth. And so you guys are seeing a recession due to due to the oil industry. Is that Kinda what you’re seeing up there? Is that what happens? Yes. So the, there was a big huge drop in the price of oil and Alaska is a more expensive place to produce oil, so when that margin was gone, our um, our industry and really the tax base for what fuels the whole state, the bottom fell out from under it. So we’ve had just a huge decrease over the last four years. And then you have some people working for you as well.

Shalem: [05:04] So when you made those desk manuals and stuff like that, like do you feel like that helped you with your staff and you can, if you want, talk a little bit about your staff and who you have there and what, what they do and stuff like that. Absolutely. So we have three employees. One is a commission employee that does sales, one is a front desk position that also does sales for added commission and then we have a full time production manager. And building those desk manuals has been extremely helpful in the, in the hiring and training of new employees. So I think since we started building what we call our Studio Bible, we have gone through, I think three or four front desk position employees. It tends to be more seasonal for us because we specialize in senior portraits and not many people want to photograph in subzero weather and so when we’re hiring them and we’re bringing them on, the first step that we do is go over that desk manual with them and it’s just really streamlined everything.

Kia: [06:08] So does it match work with you as well?

Shalem: [06:11] So Mitch had worked with us, um, from the beginning, uh, over the last two years. Now he has taken on another position.

Kia: [06:20] Okay. I thought so. I wasn’t sure it both if you were working together right now or how that worked.

Shalem: [06:26] Yeah. So he still helps in the business management portion of that is really what he’s incredible at both the mind for numbers as well as the mind for business. So he still does the financial side of the business as well as um, the high level like employee management.

Kia: [06:45] Okay. So let me just, so to summarize what you’re saying then Shayla, you feel like what’s working for you now is the time and effort that you put into doing the behind the scenes organization for the business, like the actual structure of a. So you see your staff knows what to do and how to do it with. Is that what you would say?

Shalem: [07:08] Yeah, I definitely think that the thing that has yielded the most success for us is the structure of the business. For a long time. We focused on differentiator ourselves in the market. We looked at marketing campaigns and all of that, getting people in the door. Um, and that was quite successful for us. It built a brand that has a lot of notoriety in town, but I think when we started doing studying the touchpoints that when our clients come in contact with us, making sure that every touchpoint is a positive and that they never leave a contact with us. Empty handed. Things like that have really yielded a lot of referral business. Um, which I really think is what a studio survives on, is that word of mouth referral. So can you give us an, can you give us a point of like a touch point that you guys feel like you’re doing really well that maybe other people aren’t doing?

Shalem: [08:02] Absolutely. So first of all, when they call our studio, we want to get them in and meet with them face to face. I do block booking, so on Mondays it’s my day to do consultations. I’m really great in person and I think a lot of photographers that are good and the portrait realm are and so I just want to meet with them and connect with them. In our consultation we have specific questions that we ask every client and I explain everything in a consistent way. And the reason we do this is because at the end of our workflow we have a survey that our clients fill out and if there’s something that consistently gets mentioned that they were unclear on or if there’s something that’s frustrating, then I know I can just change it in my consultation and because I’m applying it consistently, it’s more of a scientific approach.

Shalem: [08:53] And then also I’m asking key questions that trigger things in our workflow. So for instance, I’m asking them what they love to do in their free time. I’m asking kids what their plans are for the future. I’m also asking them if they went to a coffee shop, what would their go to order B for a drink? And so they might say, I mean all of my girls lately, or been obsessed with Italian red bull smoothies, which sounds like diabetes, but they love it and we get the specific flavors for them. So when they walk in the door for their session, we bring them back to the makeup and hair area. Their name is on the front door when they walk in welcoming sophie. And then when she gets back to her makeup counter, there’s a drink that says sophie on it. That is a guava passion fruit, mango Italian, red bull’s soda.

Shalem: [09:43] And so we were paying attention. A lot of them don’t even realize that we asked that question because of the way we ask it and they just think that somehow we miraculously new. We also ask them what kind of music they love. And we have a Pandora station in the makeup room that’s already playing their favorite music and again, it’s one of those things that they don’t realize how we got to that conclusion, but they just love the music mix every session right after the session, we write a thank you note and we send it in the mail when they come in for a design consultation, when they’re picking out their Walmart and albums. We already have a five by seven that’s been retouched and printed as a gift so that they don’t walk out the door empty handed. Again, all of these touchpoints have started to create a standard in our market and we’ve had a lot of our colleagues and friends contact us and say, is anybody giving them a five by seven?

Shalem: [10:40] Is anybody giving them something to walk out the door? Because we’ve had clients come in and they expect it. And that was so exciting when we started hearing that because it means the word of mouth of those touchpoints, that there’s enough importance where friends are talking about it to their friends. Yeah. That it’s definitely being noticed. That’s so fun. So did you have like some sort of catalyst that made you want to start thinking about that or was that something that you just noticed and wanted to change for yourself? So we read this book called The e Myth and actually read it I think maybe four or five times since we started reading it. We’ve read it every year and we have really new draws each time. It’s kind of a, a really meaty read, but one of the concepts that he talks about that in that book really is being intentional with those touchpoints. So how much, how much better the experience is when it’s consistent, when expectations are met and exceeded every time. So that’s what we’ve just taken and applied and done the work to make sure that it’s happening for every client. Yeah. That’s so great. It’s funny, I have read that book several times and when you were talking about what

Kia: [11:54] you were doing, I was like, oh, I bet they did the e myth. What makes me mad about that book is I feel like, well I need to do all these things and I don’t want to read another book after and so I think you know, like how you’re doing it, where you kind of revisit and do more each time I think is a good way of looking at that because if you just read it and said I’m going to do everything immediately, it’s, I don’t even know if it’s really possible to implement it all at once. Absolutely. Yeah. That’s great.

Shalem: [12:26] It was really daunting. Like you said when we finished it the first time, we’re like, well how just the logistics are so challenging to implement, but if you take it in bite size pieces and I think it’s a benefit to that. We have a team that works with us so there’s something for you to say, you know, I’m going to do this with every client and there’s something different to say, Hey, I need you to do this for every client.

Kia: [12:52] Yeah, absolutely. I think the consistency from client to client is trick is great too what you’re saying because like this year we put out a sign for our first week of clients that said like, welcome Lindsay, and then I just found that the other day when I was like, well that that really stuck. We didn’t do it with anyone else the rest of the year. So the way that you’ve systematized it really makes a lot of sense.

Shalem: [13:18] Yeah. I think the things that sometimes fall through the cracks are the things that I’m responsible to ensure the consistency on. I take a polaroid, like a little instax mini polaroid at every session. Again, with the same thought that we don’t want a client leaving empty handed and when I forget that my clients will mention it and I’m like, oh shoot.

Kia: [13:42] Yeah. They’ll remind you should put it in your confirmation email or whatever might want to take your polaroid. Absolutely, yes. Please remind me. It’s your responsibility. So what is the thing that you’re most fired up about? What about the Industry today? Is there anything that you were like super excited about or that you feel like people aren’t really realizing as a positive thing about photography right now, so we want to be positive, right? Be fired up about something. I just it for something you’re mad about because we want to hear that too.

Shalem: [14:14] Well, I generally try to choose positivity, but I think I’m most excited that photography seems to be getting back to its roots and all of those things that were important in studio portrait photography back in the late nineties and early thousands are kind of coming back, which I love. I think right now there’s this new place where Polish in photographic work is important. Again, I’m authenticity and the personality of the clients are again the most important things, so I think it’s just such good place for the industry. I think for a long time photography was about the photographers and not about the clients and so I think I’m really excited to see that.

Speaker 5: [15:03] What would be an example of that? Like what would you say would be photography about a client

Shalem: [15:08] versus photography about the photographer? Yeah. I think what I see and have seen for the last few years when I go to conventions is main stage speakers showing work that I don’t see a true client in. They are doing all these amazing composites and lens flares and filters and everything about it is so stylized that it’s kind of lost its heart and what I love right now is that I’m seeing a lot of work where you look at a picture and you can see a real person and that I think is what portraiture is about.

Speaker 5: [15:46] And Are you seeing that? Do you feel like in a the portrait photography world or just in photography in general, like on social media and instagram and that type of thing?

Shalem: [15:57] I think in photography in general, so I’m seeing it on these instagram influencers that for a long time they’ve had this like beautiful stunning work, but it’s photographs of their friends. I’m almost playing characters and then now, like I said, people are are so used to seeing a high quality of artistry that now the thing that is a differentiator is the personality and the authenticity in an image.

Matt: [16:25] And I’m just wondering if some of those reasons we’re not seen as much. Excuse me, we’re not seeing as much of that work is some of those photographers that were doing that, you know, non client work and stuff, they just, they just went and got a job or they’re out of business because you know, they had lots of really amazing work, but it wasn’t necessarily a sustainable on a workflow level or it’s just, you know, or it wasn’t client base so they weren’t necessarily making any money. And so was some consolidation in the industry. I’m wondering if that’s why we’re seeing some of the other stuff pop up more as well.

Shalem: [16:57] Yeah, I think, you know, you have to be careful with small samples. But in my own market, all of the people that I was really intimidated by the quality of work that they were producing like two years, three years, four years ago are all gone. They closed their doors and went on to other things and I think it’s exactly like you’re saying, if they don’t have a client that’s completely thrilled with the results on the other side of it. It doesn’t matter the caliber of the work, you know, it’s a really good point.

Speaker 5: [17:30] Yeah. And I think to uh, you know, especially with social media and that type of thing, people want to post what people, what they get likes on and I feel like the fantasy and the stuff that is not really connected to real life, just kind of make sure to Kinda jangles when you’re flipping through and the things

Shalem: [17:49] that look like they could be happening in real life that are uh, you know, relatable and, but just still beautiful and pretty are what people tend to like. I feel like. Yeah, I mean I think we saw that a lot with our personal projects for my husband and my and myself. When we would create these fashion look, some of them were so out there. I remember one of the first fashion shoots that we did. We stuck gumballs to make this helmet for a girl and had this cotton candy hair coming out from underneath. It sounds tacky, but it actually looked kind of tacky, but it had a good Polish to it. But people would come in and they would say, I chose you because I love this and I want you to take my senior pictures or I want you to take my wedding pictures.

Shalem: [18:33] And I would sit there baffled and say there’s no way that you want that to be the final product. And so then as a professional, maybe having those skills of navigating them to something that has an echo of that but not the full force I think is important. Yeah, for sure. So today it’s snowing, it’s the second time it snowed this year and I know you guys are in Colorado and Alaska, but in Kansas, snowing as a big deal. And so when it has snowed in the past, the past couple of years I’ve done these really exotic shots with like, you know, funky things with their hair and gold and for. But right now I don’t know if that would get as many likes as just a pretty girl with a fur hood over her head or a cute sweater and boots. And so I feel like that’s what you’re talking about, the different Shalan would you, is that what you’re saying?

Shalem: [19:25] Absolutely. Like if you look at the store fronts, like if you’re looking at boutiques, like I was just an anthropology and free people and they’re kind of going with this like Charlie Brown Christmas tree that you just went in your backyard and you chopped it down kind of Motif. It’s not like the ultra polished. It’s more cozy country Christmas I guess. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So what are you seeing trend wise coming up that you’re going to be implementing in your studio? Is there anything specific that you’re like, okay these are the things we’re going to be doing next year. I think I used to give a lot of advice to clients on what they would wear. And then what I’ve implemented this year, um, is not giving as much advice but giving them pointers. So I tell all my clients to focus on texture, talking about how when you have a chunky knit sweater in a winter photo or a fall photo, it has that coziness.

Shalem: [20:23] You can almost feel it also. It makes the photo seem more three dimensional, so I’ve been giving them these kind of a, I don’t know even know how to say it, but directional comment, like giving the direction to go in rather than a specific item. Exactly. And I think what I’m seeing with a lot of my seniors and Alaska tends to be like three years behind in the trends. What I’m seeing right now is that nobody wants to look like anybody else and that’s the only thing they don’t, you know, they, they’d love free people right now. They love off the shoulder shirts still. But the paramount thing is that they don’t wanna look like other people. So I’ve been telling them to thrift, I’ve been telling them to take chances and be daring with their, with their outfits. Um, and say that if it makes them a little bit nervous, if it makes their stomach turn a little bit then it might be a really good option for them. That’s fun. So yeah,

Speaker 5: [21:20] yeah, I like those, those words definitely. And you know, we’re working on like our trends for like home design and that type of thing. Right now at the studio, since we’re in the family portrait, a time of year and one of them is definitely like that natural textural elements which you’re talking about like the wood and the cotton and the Muslin. And so I mean, you know, just I think doing that and the clothing as well. Home design typically does come behind fashion. So it’s probably about the same as your, uh, Azure, Alaska and they’re kind of in the same timeframe.

Shalem: [21:58] Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing that I’ve been really liking when it comes to family photos and I really think it’s a good way to describe how I think right now is my senior fashion, is that the Danish art of, I can’t say it correctly, it’s a high d or huggy and it’s this idea of crafting coziness in your home. So having every choice for decorating your, your home for the holidays. Uh, does it bring warmth? Does it invite coziness? Um, you know, like little candles or like cozy throws, things that create that feeling of home. And so I think that goes with the fashion advice that I’ve been giving to is, is something that creates that feeling in the photos rather than a specific pattern or theme.

Speaker 5: [22:43] Yeah, I feeling of coziness. That fun. So Shayla, and I don’t know if I know this about you. I like your entry into photography. So, uh, the next question is what was holding you back from becoming a photographer and where did you, where were you before you were a photographer? Yeah,

Shalem: [23:02] so I started photography, I think it was a senior or junior in high school, um, and I interned with a studio in town of photography studio in town, which actually was a great way to start. But after high school I, I was a municipal clerk for our city government. And I think what was actually really hard to, uh, leave was the balance of left and right brain. I loved having a job that was very analytical, like no creativity and balancing that with the creative side as well as I was just terrified of, of my future, of the stability, you know, this market is so volatile in that if you, if you let up on the marketing, if you let up on building, then it, I felt like I could go away so fast. So I think it was really hard to leave the security of that job and take something that was a chance.

Shalem: [23:57] So how long ago did you do that? Oh goodness. I think it’s been nine years. Nine years since I worked at that job. So you, have you been a full time portrait photographer for that same amount of time? Like nine or 10 years then? Yes. So we’ve had our studio almost 10 years and I’ve been full time for nine years. Okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s interesting. Very interesting. So the stability is what made you like, just nervous about it, but what drew you to it? Was it just the creativity of it or that specific business that you worked, you know, you started out with? I think it was the creativity and I’ve kind of have always lived my life with making decisions, thinking what decision, if I don’t make it, will I might, I might regret in the future. And I knew that if I didn’t take the leap when I was young, I would always ask myself what I could have become. So Shannon, what is the best advice you’ve ever received? Oh my goodness. I was about to do a blooper. Never on the first date.

Shalem: [25:04] What is the best advice I’ve ever received? Um, I think the best advice, if I were to answer that right now, would be pay yourself first. I mean, it’s a piece of advice that a lot of people give entrepreneurs and it’s something that I didn’t implement for the longest time. I thought I was doing it, but there’s such a difference when you’re paying yourself a livable wage and you can see the margin that your business is actually making on the other side. And until you have that definition, you don’t know the profitability of your business. You know, we’ve gone through a similar transformation. I’m going to get on my soapbox for a second, so I’ve said this in a previous podcast, but we started using the system that was in the book profit first and the idea is that you pay yourself and have profit in your business first and then everything else comes after that and then some really amazing book and it was, it’s been so interesting to see what margins our business really lives on.

Shalem: [26:01] You know, once you’re paid and you know, and the business produces a profit like it should then like what is truly left. And it’s been really interesting because some months have been really lean and some months have been really nice and it’s been interesting. But yeah, it’s changed my perspective on business a lot for sure. How long have you been doing that? Shalem paying ourselves. I think we’ve only been intentional in how much we make off of the business. Maybe in the last six years before that, we would take vacations when we had money in the account and we thought that that was paying yourself first, but after we made that transition, it put us in the driver seat of our business. Before that we were in the passenger seat and now we can see a lean month, a month and we can make decisions accordingly and I really think it’s made us really prioritize having data, so even the amount of reprints that we have on albums and wall art just for simple mistakes, but we track all that. We also track sales averages, our client booking rates, our consultation rates, our conversion rates. Like all of that data makes us feel like so much stronger and informs all our decisions now.

Speaker 5: [27:29] Yeah, that really makes sense because if you don’t have that information then you’re not going to know how to change it, but if you pay yourself first, you have to make that work. So Matt and I have been doing this book profit first. Have you done that? Shalem? Have you read that? No, I haven’t. Okay, well we can talk about it more. I think matt and I are going to do a podcast on it specifically, but what I found is so fascinated about it is that I thought I really was paying myself first and I was doing a lot of things right, but there was so much more I could do to really prioritize what I was taking home from the business and I think the biggest difference is going to be how my family views it and how my husband views it because so much of the time, you know, they kind of have to sacrifice, you know, like, Hey, I have to go do this on this weekend or I have to go do this, you know, uh, during your game or something like that. And, and I don’t do that a lot but I do it some and if they’re feeling more of a where they can actually see like, hey, we’re taking home this money and we’re doing something fun with it. They can, they can see the rewards from it. So much better.

Matt: [28:40] Yeah, that makes, that makes a lot, makes a lot of sense. Um, because yeah, I mean you sometimes, yeah, it’s like, okay, I’m going to miss a soccer game, but I’m gonna you know, we’re going to be able to take a vacation or whatever because of it or whatever. And so sometimes you can trade off, you know, things that you want, like mom at a soccer game, you know, for, you know, maybe vacation with mom, but sometimes I think it’s really hard on families when it’s like I got to work every Saturday because I have weddings and stuff like that. And then they’re like, well, when do I actually reap the benefits from you being gone every Saturday? So that, that’s pretty smart. And

Speaker 5: [29:16] Yeah, I know Mitch would like it. I’m sure that he would like it. Just from your description, you’ll have to check it out. So a Shalan, what is one of your personal habits that you think contributes to your success?

Shalem: [29:32] Uh, my neuroses. Uh, no, I, uh, I think it’s my attention to detail. I tend to, I wouldn’t say like over analyze, but the little things really do matter. If you have a client interaction that doesn’t go exactly as you would like it to go and you find yourself being at home and thinking over that client interaction, just picking up the phone or sending an email, a text message or a letter, something that I think a lot of us would just glaze over and move forward. But just really being intentional about those things I think is important and really making sure that as I’m photographing, I’m fine tuning each image to its best version, you know, not polishing it to death, but making sure that it is a high standard.

Speaker 5: [30:23] So are you saying like if you had a client that you were, you were like, ah, I don’t know how that went. That was kind of weird. Like you would contact them and talk it through?

Shalem: [30:34] Yeah, I think I’m super embarrassing. Let’s just be super embarrassing. So we had a client, um, a number of years ago, a cletus we’ll call them cletus and um, cletus ordered some graduation announcements through us and we send a proof out to them and the proof was perfect. Um, they proofed, it, approved it. We printed it, they sent it out to everybody and they started getting messages on social media. That graduation was misspelled. I’m now poor, cleanness, cleanness was not pleased and was just heartbroken and so when we went through our normal customer service flow of like, we’re so sorry that was done with the girls at the studio and they did a good job handling it, but I found myself in my head just saying like, it has to be me that does the call and those kinds of phone calls, you just aren’t, you know, they’re going to be painful phone calls and it’s so tempting to just send an email or a letter, but calling the parents made such a difference and they turned from a negative to saying like, we’re so we understand that these things happen.

Shalem: [31:44] We’re so thankful for a phone call. You’ll see our next son in two years. I think that those kinds of things like just running something to the ground I think is really important. So give us an internet resource that you can share with people that may help them grow their business a little bit. So one thing that I love to do is save money and so there’s this, there’s this web site called creative market.com and it’s one of those platforms where you can buy templates, you can purchase fonts to use for designs, a powerpoint presentations, resumes, all sorts of different creative collateral and every week they have freebies so they give away free fonts, a free card templates, stock images and so I love this website, first of all because they do have some good templates that you can purchase, but the that I can check in every week and see if there’s a font that’s going to be useful for my designs. There have a generally high caliber. And so I love that.

Matt: [32:47] That’s really cool because then it keeps it fresh too, you know, not only are you getting like a free resource, but then it just, I mean just from the creative process, like there’s always something new in your hands or something you can

Shalem: [32:57] tweak or whatever. That’s really cool. Yeah. And it syncs to your dropbox too. So you just go to the Freebie, a part of the webpage and you can just sync it to your dropbox and it’s already there for you to use later.

Matt: [33:08] That’s pretty cool. I did not know that existed. So yeah, we’ll definitely link that in the show notes so that everybody can kind of check that out. But that’s really cool. Okay. And then also on that same note of resources, would you say that the e myth is the book that you would recommend to people right now? Or do you have something else that you would want to share?

Shalem: [33:27] I would absolutely recommend the ems. I think that there’s a ton of books that I love that talk about the creativity of marketing and how to build a business empire or finance, but this one really hammers down what it’s really about telling them.

Matt: [33:44] So then I kind of talked about this because I think kind of would you recommend this book on when I interviewed you as well? Somebody, somebody, somebody, somebody rose or something? Yeah, maybe it was and one of our previous. And I just have never gotten into that book and I just constantly hear that it’s the book to read and so I, I really need to, I need to make it happen. I need to put it on my list and like give it the time it deserves because I just haven’t been able to finish it. And actually I’m going to Phoenix to see my parents soon. So maybe I’ll just eat bucket our audio bucket and then it’ll give me like eight hours into it and then I can take it from there. Maybe. So yeah. Something. And one of the other thing that’s really cool, I should just mention this total side note, is that when you sign up for audible.com. Yeah. Audible.com. You get two free downloads and so we have a link on our website that’s that you’ll see that you can get two free downloads so you can do the ems on any other book that you want as well. Um, so I just need to do that. I need to sign up for audible again and download it and listen on the way to Phoenix. And you can

Shalem: [34:48] gift a book to a friend too, so that’s kind of Nice. I think the first one that you share is free. And so if you know a friend that needs to read it to you can just pass it onto them.

Matt: [34:59] Oh, Shalem said going to gift it to you, Matt. That’s great. Now he said if, if he had a free one left, he would gift it to me. If you were his friend, he would gift it. There’s, there’s some subtleties in that sentence. Cool. So just kind of wrap it up. Can you give our audience some parting advice and then also tell them where they can connect with you and follow you and stuff like that as well.

Shalem: [35:22] I think parting advice would be to stop looking at other photographers work and focus on making your clients evangelists for your business. I think that is the advice I would give. And

Matt: [35:38] then if you want to follow me, I am Shalem photo on Instagram. I have a facebook page somewhere, but instagram’s where you should follow me. Okay. So Shalan photo is where as where to follow you, if they want to know what you’re actually doing and they should go to instagram if they want to know what you did four years ago. Facebook. It is absolutely. Well and I’m starting, I’m starting to realize that this theme, because this isn’t like in the last couple of interviews, there’s a lot of people that are like, well I have facebook but I haven’t really, you know. And it’s just interesting that how it, how it shifts in who knows them two years from now, we’re all be talking about facebook again and or something that doesn’t even exist. We’ll see. But Shannon, thanks so much for being on the podcast. I mean, thanks for first of all being such a great friend to me and allison and I’m really excited to get together with you guys.

Matt: [36:22] Next time you guys come down to the, what do you guys call it? Like the mainland, what do you call it? The mother? The mother ship, we call it the lower 48, 48 depending on who you are. Forty eight. Yeah, I got it. That’s awesome. So yeah, hopefully you guys can make it down as soon. And um, I know you guys have gone to Arizona a couple times and so maybe we just need to rendezvous. They’re absolutely. That may be the, that may be the first to go. So thanks so much for being on there. So to, to all of our audience. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week.

Speaker 2: [36:53] Thank you for listening to from nothing to profit a photographer’s podcast with Matt and Kaiya. Be sure to subscribe for more business strategy and ideas to help you create a profitable and successful business you’ve always wanted. See you on the next episode of from nothing to profit.