In this episode of The Circle Sessions, host Brett Johnson guides you through essential strategies for growing a podcast's audience in 2025.
He begins by emphasizing the importance of defining your ideal podcast listener, highlighting the need to target content effectively by understanding your specific audience's demographics, behaviors, and needs.
Brett shares his experience from the radio industry, noting how understanding the listener's profile can help tailor content. He provides practical steps to define your podcast's target audience, including competitive landscape evaluation, niche identification, and brainstorming podcast ideas.
He stresses the importance of setting clear goals, such as brand awareness, thought leadership, or educating an audience, and creating a detailed listener persona to develop relatable content.
The episode covers key growth strategies, including making your podcast discoverable on multiple platforms and the significance of utilizing YouTube. Brett discusses the importance of podcast SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and encourages the use of transcription services to enhance organic traffic and accessibility.
He highlights the value of having a mobile-friendly website with easy subscription options and offers insights on how to leverage social media effectively.
Engagement is another focal point, with Brett recommending tools like SpeakPipe for listener interaction and Facebook or LinkedIn groups for community building. He also touches on the cautious use of paid ad campaigns to promote standout episodes.
Brett dispels common podcasting myths, such as the over-reliance on downloads as a key metric and the misconception that social media followers equate to podcast listeners. He emphasizes the importance of understanding broader trends and utilizing various analytic tools for better insights.
For anyone serious about podcast growth, this episode offers comprehensive strategies, practical tips, and a fresh perspective on how to engage and expand your podcast audience in 2025.
Key Takeaways
Defining Your Ideal Listener: Creating a detailed listener persona, including demographic information and specific pain points, is crucial for targeting your content effectively.
Competitor Analysis: Evaluate the competitive landscape by researching other podcasts in your niche to understand how they're reaching their audience and to find ways to differentiate yourself.
Content Refinement: Continuously refine your podcast topics to focus on a specialized audience. Avoid being too general to stand out and engage listeners deeply.
Platform Utilization: Ensure your podcast is discoverable on all major platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Don't limit your reach by only being available on a few platforms.
SEO and Transcripts: Optimize your show and episode descriptions with relevant keywords and convert episodes into SEO-friendly blog posts using transcription services to boost organic traffic.
Engaging and Shareable Content: Strive to create content that is engaging and shareable, aiming for moments in episodes that listeners feel compelled to share with others.
Social Media Strategy: Tailor your content for different social media platforms and use features like audiograms to capture attention. Understand that each platform has its own audience and content preferences.
Community Engagement: Set up communities on platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, or Slack to engage with listeners, gather feedback, and gauge topics of interest for future content.
Metrics Beyond Downloads: Focus on metrics like completion rates and listener behavior rather than just download numbers to get a true sense of engagement and episode performance.
Consistent Effort and Adaptability: Growing your podcast requires consistent effort and the willingness to adapt. Collect feedback continuously and evolve your content to meet listener expectations and trends.
Key Moments
00:00 Define ideal podcast listener 2025.
04:09 Clarify podcast goals; understand your audience’s needs.
07:33 Respect podcast duration; tailor content for audience.
10:04 Aim for creating shareable content; success varies.
14:14 Transcribe episodes for SEO-friendly blog posts.
21:38 Use transcripts for SEO and engagement growth.
23:54 Understand audience through completion rates and engagement.
27:08 Groups foster support, insights, and content opportunities.
Each week, one of The Circle of Experts talks about critical aspects of growing your podcast. We focus on marketing, social media, monetization, website design, and implementation of all of these to help you make the best podcast possible.
Have a question or an idea for one of our episodes? Send us an email at podcasts@circle270media.com.
Welcome to the Circle Sessions featuring the Circle of Experts. As you know, the Circle of Experts are me, Brett Johnson from Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants, and also Yasmine Robles from Robles Designs, Tonnisha English Amamoo of TJE Communications, and Don the Idea Guy. Each week, we all get together in some form and talk about how to make podcasts better for you, make them more effective, and some ideas whether it's on social media or the website or just general ideas. We get it here to you with our podcast on a weekly basis to help you create podcasts better. So let's take a look at defining your ideal podcast listener in the coming year, in 2025. You know, who's your podcast for? Let's start defining your ideal podcast listener. Some some key points to consider in creating a podcast involves defining your ideal listener to target your content effectively. Think about it.
Brett Johnson [:
You put a lot of time in creating content, but who's that content for? This process enables more engaging, intentional content, helping to build a a loyal audience, and it's gonna improve your podcast success. What is an ideal podcast listener? That's up to you, you know, your ideal podcast listener. It's a specific audience defined by demographics, behavior, and needs. Like, let's put it like a consumer avatar in marketing. Demographics include age, job title, education, socioeconomic status, hobbies, and problems. So you're defining this avatar to help you relate to how you're creating this content. I can go back into, an example being in radio. When I was in radio, a lot of radio stations at one point or time to remind their on air personalities who they're talking to to keep the content that they're bringing on air, how they're talking.
Brett Johnson [:
They would have stand ups, cut out stand ups of the of the model listener in studio with them to remember, let's say it was a soft AC station. Remember what you're talking about is the mom and dad and then maybe 3 kids with them. And to remember what you say, those 3 pairs of ears, the younger kids could be hearing what you're saying as well too, as well as remembering it's a mom and dad. So the content needs to relate to them. Think of it that way. When you're creating content in your podcast, you have an ideal listener. Who is that? And keep that in mind. But but you also need to define your ideal listener.
Brett Johnson [:
How to do it? Evaluate the competitive landscape. You know, research competing podcasts on Apple's, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and YouTube. Take a listen. Take a look at who they're and how they're putting their podcast together, how they're describing their podcast, what's in the show notes, listen to their episodes, see how they're doing things, not to replicate, but to make sure that you're not replicating what they're doing. You can also use tools like, Podchaser and Refonic to identify your competition. They that gives you a little bit more granular information, to understand listener preferences and and all in to fill in the gap in the market. Identify that niche. You know, bottom line is you do need to narrow your podcast topic to focus on a specialized audience.
Brett Johnson [:
Avoid being too general to stand out. That if nothing else from this podcast, that is the one thing. It's hard to refine. Continue to refine. Continue refine, but also remember you need to have a very specific audience. Steps to get there, we'll brainstorm podcast ideas, whether it's coming from internally, you're hearing, you're listening, pain points, topics that you know that that very specific audience will want to to to to pass along. Identify those pain points in your industry and elaborate on them to solve them or to at least offer the opportunity that you are the answer to that pain point. Choose the most meaningful and unique ideas and add a unique angle to differentiate your podcast.
Brett Johnson [:
That's gonna make you who you are. Start clarifying your goals. You know, answer the why are you podcasting before you open up that mic, before you start recording, why are you creating that specific episode? And in general, why are you podcasting? Why are you continuing to do this week after week or, you know, every other week or monthly? Whatever your your your process is, why are you podcasting? Common goals include brand awareness, thought leadership, industry, networking, educating an audience, or entertaining listeners. And guess what? It can be, a a combination of a couple of those. You could be educating an audience, but also entertaining listeners as well too because that is the way you present things. It's okay. Create a listener persona. So, again, again, what we mentioned, you know, build a detailed profile of your ideal listener.
Brett Johnson [:
That's gonna include a demographic, demographics of, like, age, education, income, job title, and industry. Especially the job title and industry if you're a business podcast. You need to know who you're specifically talking to and how to talk to them. Also include some hobbies, challenges, and goals relevant to your content. That's gonna develop you to be relatable to them to understand that I know where you are. I'm I I come from where you are. I understand you, and you can talk to them 1 on 1 in that podcast. Focus on specific needs.
Brett Johnson [:
So identify challenges your target audience faces and build episodes to solve those problems. That's why they're listening. That if that's the podcast you've built, create that. Forums and audience surveys help for identifying audience pain points as well. So in other words, you're listening to your listeners. They give you content ideas by creating surveys or looking into forums that whether you created or not, what are people talking about in that space that and those people that you're trying to attract to your podcast, find those pain points and come up with solutions for your podcast. Writing a listener profile, combine all that gathered data into a listener persona or story to understand your audience deeply. You know, for example, as I mentioned, that radio station putting together a cutout of a family.
Brett Johnson [:
So maybe your persona is a guy named Bob. He's 45. He's head of marketing and finance. The his challenges are keeping up with industry trends from what you've seen and what he needs. He needs digestible, actionable, trend focused insights. And, again, you're getting that information from your little bit of a research in forums. That's the starting point. Go right there and then it starts to evolve.
Brett Johnson [:
Key metrics to consider, you know, listening habits. So here's where the most common question that we get at Circle 270 Media is, how long should my podcast be? Should be any longer than 1 minute, longer than it needs to be. Again, think about how podcasts are used. I would suggest, again, anytime you want to as long as you want it to be. But but but but don't make it yeah. Let's say somebody suggest, well, it should be 30 minutes. Well, don't make it 30 minutes just to make it 30 minutes. If you have 15 minutes worth of content and that's and it's gold, you go with 15 minutes.
Brett Johnson [:
If it's a 30 minute podcast and every bit of that is is gold, then it's 30 minutes. But whatever virtual contract you made with your listener, stick to it And and and say that it's gonna be a 15 minute podcast. So if you're gonna be 15 minutes, start melting down, cut away the fat of that content and make it 15 minutes. Or if you want it to be a half an hour, then it's a half an hour. There's really no magical moment of of podcasting, but but you can also keep in mind how podcasts are listened to as well, of course. Demographics and time of availability, that's where that comes in. Occupation and lifestyle can dictate podcast length and content style. So you can again, that that little bit of research you do, that, how people are ingesting content and when are they active on LinkedIn or Facebook with questions.
Brett Johnson [:
Sometimes it's just asking listeners when you start to build up that that base of listeners. Who cares if it's 10, 15, or 500? If they're engaged, they're gonna tell you when they listen, how long they listen, and and how long they and how they want you to put that content together. Big thing is allow yourself to adapt and evolve. If if nothing else from what we just talked about, it's it's pretty important to, you know, allow your podcast target audience to shift, and it's probably gonna shift as you grow. You know, collect feedback to refine your content and keep meeting those listener expectations. Quick takeaways, you know, start with that competitor analysis, clarify goals, be specific, and understand listener behavior. By knowing your ideal listener, you're gonna enhance your chances of producing engaging and a successful podcast. So let's get into how to grow your podcast audience.
Brett Johnson [:
You've crafted an exceptional content. It's an exceptional podcast to impress your target audience. You've got it laid out. You've got the next year's worth of content, 6 months worth of content, and you're ready to go. The next step is to learn how to grow your podcast listenership. Here's a plan to optimize growth and visibility. Some things to think about. Key strategies to grow your podcast audience include knowing your audience, define your ideal listener, focus on creating content that provides value to your specific audience instead of trying to appeal to everyone.
Brett Johnson [:
Another way of thinking of this is when you create something, is it shareable? Is it something that the listener is going to listen to and go, I have to listen to this again, or I have got to share this with so and so. You don't know until it happens, but that is a goal of what you can create to make sure that you go, okay. What I'm creating here, is it a an moment? Is it something that's shareable? Strive for that with every piece of content that you create. May not happen every time, but if that's the goal with the episode you create, that's where it's gonna go. Your your batting average, hey. Baseball players make 1,000,000 of dollars just by batting 2250 to 300. That means one out of 4 times that they're they're at the plate, they actually get a hit. So if you're getting 1 out of 4 episodes that are shared, you're doing pretty good.
Brett Johnson [:
So the bar is not necessarily really high, but at the same time, keeping that goal with every episode that you create is something admirable. It's it keeps you keeps you driven. Make your podcast discoverable. I can't and I can't tell you how many times that we work with new clients that they've only have their podcast available on one platform. Amazing as it is. They do. And you're missing out. Even even those that now have it on 2, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Brett Johnson [:
What about the others? There are 15, 20, 25 other platforms out there. Yes. They may only have one listener here, 2 listeners here that would be specific to your podcast, but it all adds up. Why not be there? It's free. Get the opportunity, expose your podcast everywhere that you can. And, of course, don't neglect YouTube. It's the 2nd largest search engine and preferred by many podcast consumers. YouTube is a whole different beast, and it it's something to be addressed.
Brett Johnson [:
We're gonna take a look at that more in this next year working with our clients as well too, that everybody has to be on pod on YouTube. Yes and no. That is definitely a platform that's a grind. That's video. Much more editing, a different different uses, different use case uses in regards to why using YouTube, but it's something to be addressed. It's not going away, and there are many, many different ways of looking at how to use YouTube. And we'll again, like I said, we'll be addressing that in 2025, this coming year on how to best utilize time in front of camera and use resources, whether it's from, you know, recording every episode and dropping every episode, or maybe it's just very specific needs and why you drop specific video podcast on YouTube. It's the gamut.
Brett Johnson [:
It truly is. But it's that, again, going back to your ideal listener, where are they? Would they be interested in having a video from you? Is it an effective way to reach your audience? Utilizing podcast SEO, optimizing your show and episode descriptions with relevant keywords. We've talked about search engine optimization many, many times with Yasmin Robles, one of the circle of experts. You can go back to other episodes that we've talked about that. It's key. You you can't not address search engine optimization when it comes to creating your podcast. It's not tremendously difficult. It's just something to keep in mind on how you post your podcast and what what wording you're using.
Brett Johnson [:
Gone are the days of putting just a generic high you know, generic title and and just maybe a few words, a few sentences in the show notes. It's done. We you can't do that anymore. You need to be very specific and very purposeful in regards to what you create around your content. You can also use, and you should, a broad niche of keywords. For example, search engines are gonna see this differently. If you use true crime or you use true crime in Cuba, SEO knows exactly what you're talking about, even more refined when it's true crime in Cuba. And just that example in itself should be eye opening.
Brett Johnson [:
Repurpose episodes into SEO friendly long form blog posts or articles for better organic traffic. If you aren't using a transcription service right now, you are light years behind. There are some costs to it, but it's worth the investment. It truly, truly is worth the investment because it not only gives you SEO opportunities, it gives you an opportunity to create long form blog posts off of what you just created without you having to rethink and readdress and relisten to a podcast, episode that you've created. It's, it's it's it's it's it's something you have to have. You have to have, that that transcript created from your podcast. Also, creating a mobile friendly website for your podcast with easy subscription and listening options. That is, key in many, many forms.
Brett Johnson [:
And one being, podcast platforms can go away. They change their algorithms. If you send them to Spotify, you send your listeners to Apple Podcasts, you send them to YouTube, whatever the case might be. They can also get lost in the jungle of other podcasts and other YouTube, videos. If you you need to send them to your home, your.com. Take advantage of social media, tailing tailoring your content to different platforms like LinkedIn, Instagram, Reddit. There's plenty of research out there, and we'd, you know, we talked to, Tanisha English and Mamu about, social media platforms. And and every episode, we go in to the pros and the cons of each one of them and the nuances and the new things that are happening.
Brett Johnson [:
Each platform has its own listener base. And, again, going back to understanding your listeners, that's gonna help you choose which social media platform or forms that you are going to engage in that you're gonna post in. Posting on everything is not the answer. Find your audience. Where are they? It may take some experimentation. It might, but at the same time, your gut's gonna tell you, you need to be here and here and and create that content for those platforms because every platform is different. Using audiograms, animated audio snippets with transcripts, to grab attention on social media. It is pretty important.
Brett Johnson [:
If you're not this is that middle ground between going full bore into you video or just that, you know, you need to be having some video snippets, but you just you're still camera shy. You don't have the right camera. You just wanna be on camera with what you're doing. Fine. But addressing it and and utilizing audiograms is is is kind of a way to do that. You know, what I would address is this or utilize this concept by doing audiograms is rather than a full episode, don't do full episodes. Pull some great quotes. Again, going back to your transcript.
Brett Johnson [:
Put that on the audiogram, and also create some great imagery that's gonna top be tied to that quote. The the goal is to stop the thumb from scrolling. That's what it has to be. So, you know, creating some great imagery, doing some great pull quotes from your podcast, will do better than doing the full episode, as an audiogram. Embed podcast links smartly, intelligently using services maybe like Linktree, and engage with your listeners. You set up communities on platforms like Facebook group, LinkedIn, or Slack to allow some open dialogue. It's gonna serve many purposes. Again, it's a big gulp.
Brett Johnson [:
It truly is, you know, creating Facebook groups or a LinkedIn group, that sort of thing, but it offers the opportunity for you to engage, offers the opportunity to hear pain points, which means future content, future episode content. So it's multipurpose, but you've gotta be there. You you you need to you need to engage because that gives the listener an opportunity to get in front of you, get to get some of your attention outside of the podcast. And we've got a couple of clients considering that, but we've also couched it with once you create it, you need to live in that community or allowing that community to have access to you during specific times, you know, control where where when and where you are. So it's valuable. It truly is valuable, but it's that address how much time it's going to take. Maybe another option I like is enable call ins and questions using services like speed speak pipe to encourage listener interaction and participation. It's that old radio kind of feel to it, and you're calling in for a request for for a piece of music.
Brett Johnson [:
This is just a a an opportunity for your listeners to give you feedback on the podcast or the the content specifically. That's gold. If you can get feedback on specific content, specific episodes versus just, I love your podcast. Keep up the great work. That's great. Hey. Great. But feedback on specific episodes and content that you you you wanna pay a listener for, but you can allow that opportunity to happen through software that's out there.
Brett Johnson [:
Leverage paid ad campaigns. Not a big, proponent on buying social media ads, but they do have their place. They do have their place. I I think when you have those specific episodes that you just want to grow, it was that great interview with that, that person that you've been trying to get on your podcast forever and you finally got them and it came out to be a a a great episode, yeah, that's legitimate that's legitimate to promote. And and you can also, you know, invest in podcast platform ads on Spotify or or Overcast as two examples. I would be cautious of how much money you spend and on what episodes. If it's just a generic about your podcast itself, I think you're throwing money away. But on a specific episode and wrap some organic around as well too.
Brett Johnson [:
Yeah. You could get some traction, but make sure that you're watching your KPIs, the key performance indicators, your return on investment. Are you growing with that investment on social media? And then, again, you know, tracking and measuring results, make sure that you're, you know, looking at analytics from Apple Podcast Connect, Spotify, or your hosting platform to understand listener behavior. Downloads really aren't what you should be looking for. They're they're a number for sure. They're a number, but think about how many podcasts you subscribe to. How many downloads are you getting on your phone that you may never listen to that episode's been downloaded? You see the title, read the show notes, like, nah. Not interested.
Brett Johnson [:
Boom. Swipe. It's that's a download, but you didn't listen. That's happening to your episodes as well too. So another way, you know, to to look at that is to, you know, get into the specific platforms and take a look at playthroughs. How long did they play through your podcast episode? Or if your hosting platform has an embed that you can get, listeners to listen to that player, you can also get some gauge in regards to how long and how many are listening to those episodes. Downloading numbers again are download numbers, but there are some real numbers you need to pay taking a look at available on specific platforms. And also combine podcast analytics with Google Analytics from your podcast websites for deeper insights as well too.
Brett Johnson [:
If you get a podcast website, we've talked about that in previous episodes with Yasmine Robles from Robles Designs about how to set that up. It's very very easy to do, but it's it's another metric to take a look at on how your podcast is growing, how your podcast listeners are engaging with your website, as well as, again, that player that's on your website. Some additional tips, you know, consider transcription for accessibility and potential SEO benefits. If you're not using the power of transcripts, you need to consider it today. It's if you're looking and have a budget to invest in your podcast for this next year, the next 3 months, next 6 months, next year, I would look at transcription service. It it's a it's it's it's a game changer for your podcast. I guarantee it. It's a game it's been a game changer for our clients.
Brett Johnson [:
Make your podcast website mobile friendly and include features like the embed players testimonials and detailed episode pages. Really create a big picture about what your podcast and those episodes are about. Focus on personalization for different platforms. Avoid the subscribe or follow on Apple Podcasts on intros for YouTube. Give them a bit more of a call. Everybody knows they can get a podcast on Apple Podcasts. Be more specific about those call to actions. You know, success requires consistent effort to grow by making your content tailored, engaging, discoverable, and measurable.
Brett Johnson [:
If needed, hiring podcast marketing experts can also help, like Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants. Go to my podcast guy.com. That's my podcast guy.com. Jump on my calendar. Let's talk about your podcast growth pains and how we can help you turn it around. Now let's talk about the importance of unique listeners and audience engagement. Do a myth busters type of episode here. The myth number 1 downloads are the gold standard.
Brett Johnson [:
Downloads are important. It's a number. It's a number. It's a it's a growth factor. It's but it's it's it's a vanity number. It's truly a vanity number. Downloads do not mean listeners listeners. They don't mean new to listeners.
Brett Johnson [:
They don't tell you anything about completion rates. Those are the metrics you need to take a look at. Completion rates being, how long did they listen to your podcast? A broader view incorporating demographics and device usage is in crucial is crucial for understanding audience engagement. Get to know your audience. And and the really the great way to do that is creating a newsletter because that that gives you some demographic and gives you buy in from the listeners. They want content from you, specifically giving you an email address to to get a newsletter from you, as well as, just, general polls on social media. Lots of different ways to engage in that audience to know a little bit more about them that's, pretty simple for them to do. Click here, click here, boom, done.
Brett Johnson [:
You've got the information. Myth number 2, reliance on hosting platforms. Yes. Hosting platforms are key, but they don't provide a complete picture of audience analytics. They can only provide you what the the players are providing them. That's it. That's all. Integrating data from multiple sources like pod case, pod chaser or with, Refonic and adding listener surveys, as I mentioned.
Brett Johnson [:
They offer better insights because you can customize this, especially the those listener surveys. They can you can customize what you wanna know about your listeners. Myth number 3, uniform KPIs for all podcasts. Now KPIs key performance indicators vary in significance across different podcasts. Understanding the broader trends in recent episode performance impacts your key performance interpretation. So, again, it's that looking at the whole. How each podcast works or an are are is not working for listeners. Is a certain topic really just not resonating? You're seeing that episode just not being played in the library once it's been published.
Brett Johnson [:
That's a gauge as well too. Let's take a look at episodes you did 3, 4, 5, 6 months ago. Are they being replayed? Are they are are listeners going back? Are you promoting them as well? Lots of different things to play come into play with those KPIs, the key performance indicators. Myth number 4, social media followers equal listeners. Now equating social media followers with podcast listeners can be misleading. Again, it's a number that's great that you've got x number of followers on on on social media, but that's maybe all they want from you is to be following you on social media because that's you're feeding them enough. That's all they want from you is that is that. And that's great.
Brett Johnson [:
You've got them. That helps you get bigger and bigger and bigger in that realm, but it doesn't mean it turns into listeners. Building a dedicated podcast newsletter can be more effective than relying on following counts. Truly is. It's it's as I mentioned, they're allowing you to send them something. And they gave you their email address to give them more information, more background, more detail around what you've just created with a specific episode or your podcast overall. Community engagement in podcasting. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:
Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, you know, foster community and support among your listeners. You get to hear their pain points. You get content opportunity, maybe even guest opportunity, people that have jumped in the group. It's valuable information that's worthwhile. It's just looking at your time spent with that group. Do you have the time to interact and make it work for you? It's a fantastic way to get a gauge on what your listeners want in new content from you. What's being discussed? That's the most important part about a group. Wanna know more? Keep listening to the circle sessions and also get a hold of me, www.mypodcastguy.com.
Brett Johnson [:
And let's set up a time to talk about your podcast.
