Circle Sessions: Be More Than A Podcaster - Episode Overview
In this enlightening episode of "The Circle Sessions," host Brett Johnson begins by revisiting an idea brought forth by Eric Nuzum during his podcasting masterclass at Radio Days Europe a few years ago. The episode grapples with the evolving identity of podcasters, urging content creators to think beyond their conventional roles.
Key Concepts: Beyond Being Just a Podcaster
Brett kicks off the episode highlighting two significant ideas from Nuzum’s masterclass:
Don’t Just Be a Podcaster
Nuzum proposes that creators should consider themselves as "audio makers," broadening their focus beyond simply podcasting platforms. This shift allows for greater adaptability to new trends and technologies.
Community Building
Emphasizing that podcasters are not in the audio business but the community building business, Nuzum underscores the importance of creating hubs for listeners who are passionate about specific topics.
Special Guest: Matty Staudt
Joining Brett for this segment is Matty Staudt, a seasoned podcaster with over 17 years of experience and the president and founder of Jam Street Media. Matty shares valuable insights from his journey in both radio and podcasting, emphasizing the transformational nature of podcasts in the business and community engagement landscapes.
Interview Highlights
Matty explores the trajectory from traditional radio to the expansive world of podcasting, noting how the term "podcasting" has evolved from a niche, almost frowned-upon label to a mainstream, billion-dollar industry. He recounts the early days at Stitcher, where they preferred the term "on-demand audio" to distance themselves from the then-negative connotations of podcasting.
The Transition from Radio to Podcasting: Matty shares his personal shift from radio to podcasting 15 years ago. He discusses how this move was initially met with skepticism but has ultimately proven to be a groundbreaking venture.
Beyond Content Creation: Emphasizing the importance of visibility, Matty asserts that even the best podcast is like an unseen masterpiece if not marketed properly. Highlighting his own educational pursuit, a master's in digital marketing, he advocates for an integrated approach to building and promoting podcasts.
Community as the Crux: For Matty, the essence of successful podcasting lies in fostering a loyal community. He explains how podcast listeners often become dedicated followers, a trait highly attractive to advertisers.
Challenges and Realizations
The conversation touches on the initial hurdles businesses might face when embracing podcasting. Matty observes that many brands he works with already possess a sophisticated understanding of their audience as a "tribe." This existing relationship only amplifies the podcast's potential to deepen community engagement.
Case Study: Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco
Matty recounts an interesting case study involving one of his early clients, the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, demonstrating how an institution's values can be communicated effectively through podcasting. By producing content like “Does College Matter?” and “Zip Code Economies,” the bank was able to reshape its public image and extend its influence beyond traditional banking narratives.
Technological Evolution and Future Prospects
Reflecting on the technological advancements in podcasting, from the pre-iPhone era to modern-day streaming, Matty illustrates how improved accessibility has broadened the audience base. He anticipates future technological innovations that could further expand the interactive capacities of podcasts, moving beyond the "silent film" stage to more dynamic content forms.
Guidance for Aspiring Podcasters and Brands
A significant portion of the discussion addresses prospective podcasters and businesses contemplating this medium. Matty offers balanced advice, stressing that while podcasting has immense potential for community building and brand extension, it requires commitment. He cautions against entering the podcasting world with short-term goals or unrealistic expectations about immediate sales impact.
Breaking Conventional Rules
Brett and Matty explore the creative potential in podcasting, encouraging new entrants to experiment and push boundaries. While traditional formats have their place, the most memorable podcasts often break the mold, integrating narrative, interview, and other innovative elements.
Final Thoughts
Brett wraps up the episode by reiterating the central theme: success in podcasting hinges on community engagement. The episode serves as both a practical guide and a source of inspiration for anyone looking to elevate their podcasting journey, reminding listeners that being an "audio maker" is about more than just producing content—it's about creating and nurturing a vibrant, interactive community.
Key Moments
05:53 Realization occurs: podcasting evolves into community building.
09:07 Federal Reserve Bank's unexpected podcast initiatives.
11:16 Podcasts still evolving; technology enabling advancements.
14:55 Podcasts require commitment; not ideal for sales.
16:17 Podcasters support each other, offering help freely.
Each week, one of The Circle of Experts talks about critical aspects of growing your podcast. We focus on marketing, social media, monetization, website design, and implementation of all of these to help you make the best podcast possible.
Have a question or an idea for one of our episodes? Send us an email at podcasts@circle270media.com.
Welcome to the Circle Sessions featuring the Circle of Experts. Each week, one of the Circle of Experts joins me to talk about critical aspects of growing your podcast. We focus on marketing, social media, monetization, and website design to help you implement all of these together. The circle of experts are Yasmine Robles from Robles Designs, Tonnisha English-Amamoo of TJE Communications, and Don The Idea Guy. I'm Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy from Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants. This week, you got me solo, and I wanna focus on an idea that came up a few years ago, but I think it needs refreshed, readdressed in this episode. What does it mean to go beyond being a podcaster? According to Eric Nuzum, podcasters are audio makers, but they're not in the audio business. Following his podcasting masterclass at Radio Days Europe in September a couple of years ago, the veteran creator, strategist, and Magnificent Noise cofounder was asked to deliver 5 ideas around podcasting.
Brett Johnson [:
And 2 of the ideas resonated with me and I wanna spotlight. Idea number 1, don't be a podcaster. Nuzum encourages podcasters and radio producers alike to think of themselves as audio makers. Worrying about platforms will only limit your perceived versatility. To let go of that label now is to save yourself anxiety in, let's say, 10 years from now when something new comes along, vis a vis the focus on YouTube right now for us. In idea number 4, you are not in the audio business. Those that make podcasts are in the community building business, Nuzum says. You are establishing a hub for a community of people who love a subject or a topic that want to interact about it.
Brett Johnson [:
Fostering that hub is an optional if you plan to grow. You're not in the audio business. You are in the community building business. That's the phrase to remember. My guest on this episode is Matty Staudt. He's been making podcasts for entertainment and business for over 17 years. Since cracking the mic at 16, audio has been his life at companies such as, currently the president and founder of JamStreet Media. He's been a part of Iheartmedia and a founding team member at Stitcher as well.
Brett Johnson [:
This interview I had with him is from a few years ago, but I wanted to bring it back to the forefront again, that reinforcement that podcasting is about building community. Matty and I talk about how brands look at podcasting and their mindset on how podcasting builds community and how podcasting is central to community building and engagement for businesses and brands. It's about looking at podcasting as a means to an end, your business or brand goal. Here's my interview with Matty. I saw a quote from Eric Nuzum. Yeah. He was he was speaking after a Radio Days Europe in September, and he, delivered some ideas around podcasting. Number 1, he had, I think, 5 ideas, but 2 of those come to heart.
Brett Johnson [:
Idea number 1 was don't be a podcaster, and he encouraged podcasters and radio producers alike to think of themselves as audio makers, which I thought was really interesting. And then, his idea number 4 is that you're not in the audio business. Those that make podcasts are in the community building business. And from what you were talking about this afternoon, that that's great that, you know, you know, businesses that are looking into podcasting, you're not in the audio business. You're in the community building business. You've got background in radio and now in podcasting, and I wanted to talk to you about those two ideas about, you know, making that leap into you're not a podcaster. You're building this community, and sometimes those steps are a bit hard to take. Aren't they?
Matty Staudt [:
When I moved from radio to podcasting was 15 years ago, and podcasting was a bad word. In fact, Stitcher, we never used the word. We always said on demand audio. Uh-huh. Always. Never said podcasting. And now it's gotten it's gotten it's gotten, you know, it's okay to say that, but there's still a lot of people that that have connotations when you say podcaster. You know, they're like, oh, you sit in your garage with your friend and you do that.
Matty Staudt [:
You know, we're a very sophisticated $1,000,000,000 business. Guys like me, I've made my living in this world for the last 15 years. So, you know, this is this is this is business for me. It's it's not just a hobby. But it's so we're still that same kind of a lot of us are still those in the kind of the independent podcast creator where we, you know, we take a lot of pride in the word now. You know? So, but when you're a when you are a podcaster or, you know, or an audio creator, you gotta think past just making the product because you can make the best podcast in the world. People don't find it and listen to it. It's just like painting a picture and keeping it in your house.
Matty Staudt [:
You know, you want people to see it and you wanna get it out there. You know, one of the reasons, I went back to school and got a master's in digital marketing because I saw that, like, I needed to just popping the mic, doing my thing, and then letting people come find it. And you can't do that right now. You really gotta you gotta build that. And when it comes to building community, you know, that is exactly what we do as podcasters, you know. People are part of your tribe when you're a podcast. And and and we're very good at that. And podcast listeners are loyal.
Matty Staudt [:
That's why our advertisers love them so much.
Brett Johnson [:
Right. Right.
Matty Staudt [:
And so when you're doing that for a brand, you're building all that for the brand. And what brand doesn't wanna have a loyal tribe, you know, who's proud of the content and and take ownership in it that that you make.
Brett Johnson [:
Yeah. And and and there are those first few steps, first few months that you're, you know, the the the host, the cohosts are coming into studio and they're seeing all the microphones and the recordings and, you know, all the all the pieces to it and and you finally get somewhat numb to it. But when when do you start to realize when do you see the podcast, the businesses you work with, the the brand you work with, realize that they are more than podcasters? Is there is there a certain time you that that the light bulb goes off in their mind going, this is this is community building. And they they get beyond that term in their head. And I'm and I don't mean it to be a bad term. It's one of those, but it's more than being a podcaster.
Matty Staudt [:
Yeah. I think, I think the good thing, you know, most of the brands that we work with are pretty sophisticated, and they already think that about themselves. Good. You know? Okay. A podcast is an extension of what they're already they are.
Brett Johnson [:
Okay.
Matty Staudt [:
You know, I I was working with a new client and they call their customers their tribe. And I was like, that's great. That's what we build in podcasting. This is this is the perfect medium for you. So I think that that that's that's in, you know, the head of most folks once they decide to do this anyway because they they this is, you know, a a really great extension of their marketing arms. So, I don't think that's always the problem. It it but it is it is getting some folks to understand that that is what podcasts are, that they do build all those things. So that's that's something that we have to, you know, really I I and when I share, you know, my 3 e's, which, are empathy, education, and entertainment.
Matty Staudt [:
That's that's, you know, that's my keys to podcast. And I find most brands really gravitate towards the empathy part, And they're like, yes. That's what we wanna build with our with our with our with our customers. It's like, okay. Well, then cool. That's what we're doing, man. I'm doing a podcast.
Brett Johnson [:
Well, and and the businesses I I work with at a different level businesses than you are. It's been well below a brand. And and you're right. Brands walk into it knowing they have the community building. It's just another extension to talk to them, to be with them and such. And I see businesses on on on the level that I work with them, that once they start to see some, some statistics, and they start to see, wow, my my I have listeners in Washington DC, way outside of my local community, you know, local city. I think, for me, that triggers the the businesses I work with to realize this is something bigger than I realized it was gonna be, you know, of a bigger community. It has nothing to do with downloads.
Brett Johnson [:
I they always ask about it, of course. And and it's it's a measurement of something. But it's it's seeing that sphere of, wow, the city we're in, it's actually the 5th in the in the line of cities that listen to us. And I see it in their eyes. It clicks going, yeah, you have influence outside of this city, outside of it, and and it's and it's energizing to see. Have you had to take some steps to help businesses kind of get there, though? I mean, I know you're dealing in the higher brand levels, but are there businesses that have had to take those step going, this can be something big. You're in it, but continue the journey and and maybe some some, hurdles that they've had to go through possibly?
Matty Staudt [:
You know, one one brand that wasn't a brand that I worked with early on, which was my first client was the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. It sounds like a very daunting organization. Yeah. It is a big daunting organization. But they have values that they wanted to get out there that were beyond being a bank, and and and they that's how they they dipped their toes in it. So the first podcast we did was called does college matter, and it was a podcast about people using their college degrees or going back to college and, and and you wouldn't even put 2 and 2 together while the Federal Reserve would do that until you realize they're the biggest college loan granter. So that was, an interesting one. And then once they built that one, then they really got the bug and then they did zip code economies with was is a, it's a, this American life of small towns in their economies.
Matty Staudt [:
It's, It's a great, beautiful podcast. I always put it front and center when we talk about stuff we've done. And so that was kind of fun to see that evolution from it being, you know, more of a, somebody at the bank had an idea and they wanted to do a podcast to, wow, this is really changing the image of who we are to the audience.
Brett Johnson [:
When I have businesses coming in looking at podcasting, they're always asking as, you know, you discussed this afternoon too is like, how long should podcast be? You know, the the the cadence and such like that. And I think they need to we need to let them know the fundamentals of best practices and such. But I think once you learn the fundamentals, you can also break the rules. And and, yeah, you may listen to this podcast, this pause this podcast and this, but let's not replicate it. Let's break the rules. Have you had some clients that broke the rules, I guess you could say, and just, like, they took this and then took it to the nth degree?
Matty Staudt [:
Those are the clients that you always want. You know, most of them wanna stick to Okay. You know, conversational, interview style podcasts. You know, we've got a couple that we're working on where we're we're blending narrative and con and interview and and some different things.
Brett Johnson [:
Well, let's ask you then, what rules would you love to see broken?
Matty Staudt [:
I think we haven't begun to scratch the surface of how interactive a podcast can be. You know, that's that's that's coming, you know, and there's people working on different things for that. You know, in general, you know, my old boss, Conal Burn at Iheart used to say this is the we're in the we're in silent films, you know, in podcasting. There's still a lot of a lot of ground to be broken. I think we've moved past silent films at this point, but we're still in black and white. And, I I think there are a lot of different things that can be done, and technology is really the the factor. The same thing with podcasts. You know, when we started Citra 15 years ago, there was no podcast app but us.
Matty Staudt [:
There was no iPhone yet. There we just we were before the iPhone. And and and it took a long time, first of all, for people to get smartphones. Like, so I watched that happen. I watched it from being, how do I listen to a podcast? Well, you have to go on your computer, you have to download it, then put it onto your iPad. To okay. If you have an iPhone, you can possibly listen to it, but it's gonna take up a ton of your space on the iPhone. Yeah.
Matty Staudt [:
To, you know, to, you know, to them we finally got into this rolling streaming and streaming downloading and and and and people and then it was then it was can can I listen to my car? Well, no. You gotta plug this thing in and plug that in. And and now now you get in your car. It connects automatically, and you have your podcasts, you know, on your on your Apple CarPlay. So these are all things that make and that's and that's when the content changed. The more people can listen, the more people listening to content, the more money can be spent on content, the more ideas that can come out. So, you know, technology has always defined our industry, and I think it will continue to do so.
Brett Johnson [:
And as I've mentioned to many people too, I think we've progressed in this technology probably 5 years in the last year and a half because of COVID.
Matty Staudt [:
Well, no. Yeah. Just for instance, you know, we're doing this interview on a on a streaming service that creates, not only video, but audio and and high quality audio. Yeah. We didn't have that. You know, we had to use Skype forever. Like, that was all we had with Skype. That was the only way we could do these podcast interviews if you weren't in a studio.
Matty Staudt [:
And now it's, geez, everybody's got Zoom. Everybody's got, you know, you can, you know, buy one of the systems that are, you know, a little bit nicer, but, you know, we send a mic to our guests and our hosts and everything sounds like you're in a studio.
Brett Johnson [:
Yeah. You mentioned earlier that you're dealing with brands that have that community already. How are they, when they walk into podcasting for the most part, and this may be a generic answer to it, but what what how are they building that community? What that they already have? What's what's the mindset walking into it? What do they wanna do with that community that they have as well as build it? What are they doing with it?
Matty Staudt [:
Well, they wanna engage it. They wanna they wanna entertain it. Yeah. They want the they want that community to spend more time with them, which is again what other medium are you going to get somebody to spend 30 minutes with your brand podcasting?
Brett Johnson [:
Right?
Matty Staudt [:
Right. So, you know that that and then and then, you know, depending on what they're doing as far as hosts, when we bring in a bigger name talent for a host, you know, that helps to expand their community to that that fan base. So that if I'm a fan of Ron Jaworski, for instance, who does one of our podcasts, I'm I'm I'm a former lead for Amarin that is the company that makes the podcast that Ron hosts. So, you know, there's lots of ways to do that.
Brett Johnson [:
Yeah. Exactly. What advice would you give to a, you know, a business, a brand that's looking at this and they're just on the fence, just on the fence, what would what would you say to them that tip them over to it?
Matty Staudt [:
The idea that you're creating content that is there forever, it's not gonna be it's not a video that people watch. You got a window when it's gonna be relevant and then it's gone. It's not as expensive as doing the video. You know, I think that it's, but it's also a commitment, you know, if you're not ready to commit to being a partner in and creating the podcast, maybe it's not right for you right now. If you're thinking, you know, I need to sell units with this podcast. Maybe that's not for you either. You know, it, it, it, I, I have told folks that in meetings where I've been like, I don't think we're the right medium for you and what you wanna do. Yeah.
Matty Staudt [:
Because I don't I don't the last thing I wanna do is is do something that doesn't do what the client wants it to do. Like, that's that's
Brett Johnson [:
not the business. It's a waste of both of your time. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
Matty Staudt [:
I'll take the money, but I won't be happy about it.
Brett Johnson [:
Right. Well, and they they won't be either in the long run. It'll be a very short contract. So exactly. Exactly. Great. Thank you so much. I I really appreciate, you know, your time, that we could figure out a time to get together, especially in your busy day.
Brett Johnson [:
That was fantastic. But I I appreciate your insights and and knowing we connected up on LinkedIn and, with this, these ideas, I thought you'd be perfect.
Matty Staudt [:
Well, thanks for having me. And again, I think this is this again, it speaks to what we are as podcasters in our community. And that if somebody on LinkedIn hits you up and and and and wants you to do a podcast or you have some time to do it or wants some advice, I know I'm always there and and and so are most people in our industry.
Brett Johnson [:
Let's talk about what podcasting can do for your business in the next 12 months. Whether you're b to c or b to b, we at Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants can create a content marketing strategy that will work for you. Contact me if you'd like to talk more about this. My calendar is available at mypodcastguy.com. That's mypodcastguy.com or circle270media.com.
