In this episode, Laura and I have decided to have a conversation about our journey, share some of our thoughts on what we learned, and at the end of this episode ... We’ll let you hear some of our bloopers! Welcome to Unveiling Revelation: Behind the Scenes!
Jason: Welcome and thank you for listening. We are your host, Jason.
Laura: And Laura.
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So thank you for joining us for this episode of unveiling revelations behind the scenes.
So the listeners probably picked up that these episodes were heavily scripted. I mean, heavily scripted and required a ton of research. We did that because there was so much information. It was very nuanced. We didn't want to skip over anything or say something that might be inaccurate.
Right. You agree with that, Laura?
Laura: absolutely. And if they had any idea how difficult some of those names and places and. gemstones were to pronounce, they'd understand why we had to write everything down.
Jason: Not only write it down, but have like phonetic romanization next to it.
Laura: Yes, we did.
Jason: But anyways, today, completely unscripted other than my intro, we're just going to talk off the cuff, share our thoughts about this journey. And well, I mean, I may have a few notes and a couple of questions, but we're just going to mostly free form it.
So sound good.
Laura: Sounds good to me.
Jason: So first thing is, do you recall in our earlier conversations on this, that my original plan was to do a five part series on the book of revelations.
Laura: Actually. Yeah, I do. And I'm like, wait a minute. That's not going to work.
Jason: Right. Can you imagine trying to fit all of that into five episodes? They'd be like three hours each.
Laura: I mean, it's not Lord of the Rings. So I'm not entirely sure how people would listen to a podcast for that length of time.
Jason: Fair enough. I mean, we're, we're not nearly as entertaining as Frodo.
Laura: Oh, absolutely not.
Jason: So, so I have to ask what was the best part of doing this whole project?
Laura: Oh, best part.
Jason: Yeah, I can tell you mine. Give you time to
Laura: Oh, okay. Go ahead.
Jason: Okay. So for me. It was gaining insight into revelation. I mean, learning so much. I really enjoyed the learning learning what the different numbers mean, trying to decipher those numerical components. I think that was probably one of my favorite parts. Getting to the end and really being able to understand that even though this prophetic vision is super scary.
I mean, it's, it's more about hope than anything else. Like there's something beyond this world and we can't describe it. John couldn't describe it. But, we know it's there. And that, that was kind of comforting.
Laura: Yeah, that was one of my biggest takeaways as well was knowing that even though all these terrifying things will happen. It's not going to happen to us as believers. It just kind of solidified the fact that we will not be here for it. It solidified my belief that there will be a pre Trib rapture and as children of God, we will be spared the wrath that the unbelievers will experience. And that gives me a whole lot of hope.
Jason: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's deep, it's heavy. It's hard to, to read through it and not have nightmares, but, but you get to the end and you're like, okay, I get it. You know, this is not about all the bad stuff that happens. Hopefully that happens to the non believers. But what we have at the end of this is, is God restores everything back to perfection and we have the relationship and the environment and everything that he intended.
Laura: Exactly. Exactly. And when he created the Garden of Eden in the first place, that was what he was wanting. And that's kind of what we're going to get, but amplified because there will be no more opportunity for sin or evil that Adam and Eve had in the garden so that by the end of this, it'll be just paradise.
Jason: Love it. What was the most challenging part of doing this whole thing?
Laura: I think the hardest part was trying to figure out. What each thing could possibly mean, because as we've said over and over. It could be this, it could be that, it could be a combination of the two, it could be, you know, linear, it could be mosaical, it could be whatever. I
Jason: I love that that word has survived.
Laura: that word better survive along with Scrabbit Trail.
Jason: Oh yeah. That's going down in my personal dictionary.
Laura: Well, aside from the fact that I came up with Scrabbit when I was talking to a friend of mine, the fact that we've picked up on it and used it the whole time, that's got to be top of the list as favorite parts.
Jason: There you go. I like it. Yeah. I had, I had a lot of challenge with you know, With the parts that weren't overtly metaphorical or overtly literal. And I think a lot of that showed up like the, with the seals, the trumpets and the bowls specifically that it's like, well, is this a comet or are we just talking metaphor is what's, what's happening,
Laura: it this or is it that or could it be this and that could whatever
Jason: right. And a lot of the literature that's out there is not, I mean, there's a lot on both sides of the camp and a lot of these instances, it's like this. You know, you've got people that are diehard. This is literal and other people that are diehard. This is metaphor. And you're just like, okay, which one do I choose?
Laura: I pretend I'm Switzerland and go middle of the road.
Jason: There you go. I like it.
Laura: I maintain neutrality.
Jason: Yeah. And another thing that was really hard for me was wrapping my mind around the timeline. I mean, I really still don't get it. What order does everything happen? I still don't know. It's crazy.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, there are some things I know, or at least I believe, I mean, I say I know, but obviously until it actually happens, do we really know? And the answer to that is no. But I do believe that there will be a rapture and then the tribulation. And then the thousand year reign, and then the new Jerusalem.
It will happen in that order, but the seals, bowls, the trumpets, how do they correlate within that seven years? I did come across a timeline that was actually, showed how they overlap.
Jason: Yes. And I will, I will say that after reading that timeline, I went from hardcore pre trib to well, maybe mid trib, maybe that's a thing.
Laura: No, I still, even after seeing that timeline, I'm still pre trib, because as children of God, we will not be subject to his wrath. And all those judgments are God's wrath poured out on those who did not accept him.
Jason: Yeah. And that leads us maybe to one of the challenges that was hard for both of us. And is to make sure that we didn't push our personal views on eschatology into it too much. I mean, it came out and we definitely have our views, but trying to maintain, as you said, Switzerland. And, and make it something that can be digested by anyone with, with any eschatological views.
That was hard.
Laura: Yeah, that definitely was hard, especially when doing the research. Because when I would come across something that didn't quite fit what I believed, it was hard to include it because I'm like, how do I include something? I don't agree with,
Jason: right?
Laura: but in the interest of fairness, I tried my best. Can't say I always succeeded. But I also had to make sure that it fit with what I know and looked up with the Greek language and what the Greek words meant and things like that.
Jason: So I was thinking about this and I'm curious what your thoughts are on, what was the most disturbing part of the book of Revelation for you? And I'll be honest with you. For me it was definitely the locusts. I mean, they had powers like a scorpion that could sting anyone as much as they wanted any non believer and the people who are being attacked wanted to die, but weren't allowed to, they weren't even allowed to die. I mean, wow, that's terrifying
Laura: that was terrifying. And up until doing this series with you, Jason, I had not really done too much digging. I mean, having grown up in the church, I did read the Left Behind series and a couple books on eschatology that my grandfather had gotten me, but I didn't do too much digging. But yeah, that was that was pretty terrifying and then the fact that, you know, they let the bodies of the 2 witnesses lay in the streets for 4 days or 3 days or however many days it was. I'm like, ew and then people just looked at it. I mean,
Jason: that one kind of amused me because it's like, they're dead and rotting and all of a sudden pop. Hello, we're back.
Laura: pop goes the weasel.
Jason: like, how terrifying would it be for all the people that were dancing and celebrating their death to suddenly they're back? It's like, whoa, no, this is awkward,
Laura: Yeah, but I couldn't imagine the smell. I'm just hoping smell a vision is not a thing. Yeah.
Jason: right?
Laura: Well, who would watch episodes of CSI or whatever with Smell O Vision? Come on now.
Jason: Oh, people who are very disturbed or morbid curiosity. We'll, we'll call it that. So did you get a lot of feedback from people?
Laura: I shared it with a lot of my pastors at church and the ones who listened, they were impressed with the amount of research we did, you know, they enjoyed listening to it. One of the things they did comment on was they're like, You two play really well off each other. I'm like, well, that's what happens
Jason: of nerdy.
Laura: a little bit, but that's what happens when you do a project with a friend.
Jason: Absolutely. I had some feedback. I had one person tell me that was one of the best breakdowns they've heard. I thought that was quite a compliment. Another person I had to dig back in my memory banks for this one said after the first episode, she said, I must say it was done well. And then after the second, it was like, dude, this is really fantastic. Even better than the first. And I'm like, yes,
Laura: Awesome. I did have a, several people comment on the pop culture and musical references and
Jason: Yeah,
Laura: they're like,
Jason: just a thing we do.
Laura: well, you know, makes things fun and I did find out where I got my penchant for doing that though. One of our pastors was preaching, I don't even remember how long ago now, and he was throwing pop culture references into his sermon.
And I'm going, Oh, I've known you for 20 something years and heard you preach how many times? I get where I get this from.
Jason: Yeah, it was fun. Taking a subject that's very intense and making it, you Lighthearted moments. And it's not, you know, hopefully the people that listen to it understand we're not mocking the faith in it by any means, we're not trying to make fun of revelation. It's
Laura: Oh absolutely not!
Jason: Get so heavy. Sometimes you got to break away and throw a little, a little comedic value in, or, or a little distraction to kind of pull you away from the mess.
Laura: Absolutely. And I've always found that when reading scripture, if I can relate it to something else, it makes it more understandable.
Jason: Yeah, no, that makes total sense. So, so last question on my list is, are you happy you did it? I mean, is it something that you would, would do again, if given the chance?
Laura: Oh, absolutely. I have to admit, I was slightly scared to get started because I know this is your podcast and I'm like, I don't want to mess anything up.
Jason: Yeah, you fit right in.
Laura: I don't want to be completely horrible at this and make people stop listening. I'm sorry. But once I got into it and, you know, as we tried to make it feel more like a conversation rather than scripted, as you mentioned earlier, it became a lot of fun and something I definitely look forward to. And yes, of course, I would totally do another series.
Jason: right on. Yes. We've talked about it. We haven't picked anything, but I have some ideas. We'll talk later.
Laura: Oh, absolutely. Our listeners don't need to hear our brainstorming sessions.
Jason: No, no. So for the bloopers, there's about 10 minutes of it, and I'm just going to play it straight through. I'm going to have to mute my mic because I'll start laughing myself,
Laura: I will have to do the same thing
Jason: do you any last words before we, we share the, the less congenial moments of our journey?
Laura: just to kind of reiterate from one of the last episodes. This is just to show that we are not as perfect as we came across with all the post production you did and we don't have it all together. We fumble over our words. Shoot, even the A. I. had trouble understanding something I said,
Jason: Oh, yeah, no, that was funny. I'm,
Laura: that was hilarious.
Jason: this is a PG rated podcast, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say it, but it, it contains some of the letters that fire truck also has. That's all I'm going to say.
Laura: Yes, it does. And I did not say that.
Jason: No, it
Laura: what I said, I said, Spock, but because I was laughing around it.
Jason: Yeah, that was funny.
Laura: I'm like, oh, no.
Jason: All right. Are you ready to hear this?
Laura: Oh, I remember hearing some of it, but I have not heard the whole track, so punch it.
Jason: All right, here we go.
[BLOOPERS PLAYED HERE]
And that's it.
Laura: Okay, I'm glad I muted myself.
Jason: Right? It's funny. It's funny.
Laura: Some of those I completely forgot about.
Jason: Did you? I can't believe I couldn't say Golgotha. Like that. I just have to laugh at myself.
Laura: Well, you know, I didn't come up with these names. Otherwise, I would have just called it The Place of the Skull and been done with it.
Jason: get easier to pronounce in the new Testament. I'm just saying
Laura: Isn't Golgatha in the New Testament.
Jason: shush. I was hoping you'd forget that.
Laura: mean, that is the mountain Jesus was crucified on, right?
Jason: Sure. We'll go with that.
Laura: Oh, goodness.
Jason: I like this because it shows that we have fun. It, I mean, it really is fun. We had a great time.
Laura: Oh, absolutely. You know, and it just goes to show, I might've been an elementary school teacher for, this is going to be year number 20 starting up in about three weeks, but that doesn't mean when I pick up a book and read, I read it perfectly every time.
Jason: That is true. Yeah. And, and I, I mean, this is, this has been a good exercise for me. And this whole podcast has been a good exercise for me because I, you know, the listeners may or may not know, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I, I struggle with dyslexia. Getting things spun around in my brain is, is pretty normal.
I'm used to it.
Laura: Yeah, one thing that in the course of all this, I was using this series to try to explain to my first graders last year why it's important to research and ask questions and read and talk about it and work together and write things up, you know, just kind of going through the process. And then when you get to the end, you have to share it with people or publish it or whatever terminology you want to use, because otherwise, what's the point of doing all the research and asking all the questions?
So, I pulled up one of our recent episodes and I know I already told you this, but the listeners will appreciate this story. I press play and you did your intro and then I kind of fast forwarded a little bit to somewhere where I was talking so they didn't think, Oh, Miss Gumbar's just acting ridiculous. And the part I ended up playing, I was talking about Babylon being the great prostitute and I'm like, okay, we're going to stop there. First graders don't need to hear about this.
Jason: I might've chosen a better episode.
Laura: Was there a better episode?
Jason: Yeah, maybe not.
Laura: It was hilarious. I'm like, nope, nope, nope, nope. We're not doing that. But it kind of got the point across to them. Well, yeah, we can't just keep our things to ourselves. We have to share it. Because sharing is caring.
Jason: That is true. Sharing knowledge is the same.
Laura: Exactly. But yes, they are always surprised when the friends I talk about turn out to be real people.
Jason: You refer to us as pocket friends, right?
Laura: Yes, I do. So they know you as Pocket Friend Jason, and I've got several other Pocket Friends, basically people I know mostly online or in your case only online.
Jason: Right.
Laura: But yeah, they, they're always surprised to find out you guys are actual people. And not just little avatars on the screen.
Jason: Well, you can thank modern technology for that.
Laura: Oh, yes. Now, the best part was when one of my Pocket Friends actually showed up to class to do a lesson with them. They were thrilled.
Jason: That's exciting. Well, I will wrap this up here. Do you have any, any last words?
Laura: Well, I could go with bye, but I'll save that for the very end.
Jason: Fair enough. I will say one of my big takeaways, and I mentioned in one of the episodes, is that it's better not to get too dogmatic about your views on things like eschatology. Because there's a lot of interpretations, we hold our views and our beliefs of the interpretations, but we could all be wrong.
Some of us could be wrong. You don't know. And the best thing you can do is just believe that you understand the material beyond whatever viewpoint you have. And you just, you just try to learn what the little components and pieces mean. And that's, that's been really important for me as far as a takeaway from Revelation.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I do know that some of my viewpoints have been challenged, specifically with the bowls, the seals and the trumpets. I always thought they were linear, but I think they're more of a. overlap mosaic kind of a deal.
Jason: Love that mosaic.
Laura: I know, gotta love the mosaic.
Jason: Anyhow, thank you so much for doing this with me. You know, I want to make sure that everyone knows that I, I greatly appreciate your effort and your help. And you made it fun and you made it doable. I don't know if I would have been able to pull this off. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have without your help.
So thank you so much,
Laura: You're very welcome and thank you for the honor of even asking. I mean, it has been a lot of work, but it's been a lot of fun. Although I do think you would have been able to do the job on your own, but
Jason: but not as well.
Laura: maybe, maybe not, but I do appreciate the confidence that you had in me to even ask because this is, I mean, I've never done anything like this before.
So it was a lot of fun, a lot of learning. And I do, I do want to say thank you for being patient with me when I got so tired with school stuff that I couldn't do much research.
Jason: That's okay. It's back and forth. And I guess the listeners don't know that sometimes one of us would probably write a little bit more than the other, or maybe even a lot more. But what ends up happening is, and it's kind of the more fun part is going through and sprinkling in your little add ons in between the, the paragraphs and the, and the, the ideas.
And that becomes a kind of a fun of its own. So
Laura: Yeah. We could call them mix ins like the ice cream shops do.
Jason: there you go. Makes sense. I like it.
Laura: Oh, ice cream sounds so good right about now.
Jason: I know. Here we go. Tacos and ice cream.
Laura: That's a weird combo, but okay.
Jason: All right. Well, that's the episode for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, I ask you to like subscribe or follow me on whatever favorite podcast app you're using. Consider leaving me a review. If you can't find that on your podcast app, check out iTunes or pod chaser. Be sure to check out the description of the show notes for my website.
You can also sign up to get podcast updates directly to your inbox. How convenient is that? You will also find my social media links, including Facebook X Instagram and YouTube. But until next time, remember to love each other. Remember to read your Bibles. May the Lord bless you and keep you. So God bless everyone.
