Shownotes
This episode of Looking Forward Our Way is a special one for us as we sit down with our good friend Kelly Fuller, Senior Vice President of Workforce and Workplace Innovation for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce.
The conversation is bittersweet, as Kelly will be retiring from the chamber in early 2026. We’re grateful for her friendship and years of commitment to workforce development and Employment for Seniors in Central Ohio. Even though her chapter at the Chamber is coming to a close, we’re already thinking up future excuses for her to come back to the studio.
We take a look at the major shifts the region has experienced—from the decline of manufacturing to the rise of sectors like healthcare, education, and professional services. Kelly shares insights from her own career journey, discusses the changing nature of work and the challenges businesses and workers face today, and explores critical issues like talent retention, the influence of new industries, and the ever-present need for adaptability in the job market.
Plus, we don't shy away from discussing tough topics like affordable housing, evolving work environments, and what the future holds for both employers and job seekers.
Whether you’re interested in the history of Central Ohio’s workforce, current labor market trends, or you just want some thoughtful career advice, this episode offers valuable wisdom—and a few laughs along the way.
If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!
Top Takeaways
Adaptability is Essential
Opportunities often arise unexpectedly, and developing transferable skills opens doors to new industries. Kelly herself found her path by leveraging teaching skills in training roles—a testament to staying curious and never pigeonholing yourself.
Industry Evolution & Talent Gaps
Manufacturing’s decline in workforce isn’t about lost opportunity—it’s about technological transformation. Central Ohio remains a hub for innovation, but companies and job seekers need to stay ahead by networking, continuously reskilling, and understanding shifting local labor statistics.
People-Centric Growth
Whether you’re a business leader or a job hunter, the focus should be on building supportive environments. As Kelly emphasizes, investing in community, addressing housing, and embracing flexible work arrangements isn’t just good policy—it’s essential for attracting and retaining talent in an ever-changing landscape.
Moments
00:00 Workforce Development Retrospective
03:14 Small-Town Roots, Workforce Journey
08:02 Ohio's Evolving Manufacturing Landscape
12:31 Healthcare Jobs Surge in Ohio
14:58 Career Planning Challenges Ahead
18:23 "Columbus Way: Balanced Economy Insights"
22:24 Downtown Living and Housing Solutions
24:50 "Remote Work's Impact and Pushback"
29:38 Expanding Workforce & Talent Pipelines
31:11 "Building Community-Focused Infrastructure"
33:42 "Focus on Regional Strengths"
39:31 People-Centric Growth and Belonging
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Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson
Mentioned in this episode:
Listener Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised.
Transcripts
We are looking forward our way. Hi, this is Brett. Today we plan to have a wonderful program with our friend Kelly Fuller, senior Vice President of Workforce and Workplace Innovation for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. However, it is a bit of a sad time. Also, Kelly's been a great friend on the podcast, as well as supporting employment for seniors years and years ago. Kelly's going to be retiring from the Columbus chamber in early 2026, and I'm sure she's going to figure out new reasons for her future visits to the studio. In fact, we were talking about that we started recording, so I think we'll be good.
Carol Ventresca [:We're coming up with excuses for her to hear.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, yeah. So, Kelly, welcome and thank you for your years of support to us and for all you've done for the Central Ohio region.
Kelly Fuller [:Oh, thank you. It's always a pleasure and great fun to be with both of you and to be sharing all of our ideas and conversations with your listeners.
Carol Ventresca [:Well, and I think that we've probably in the past podcast taken care of all the problems in the world and the workforce. Now, if we can get anybody to listen to us before you retire, we'll be in great shape.
Kelly Fuller [:We'll go on to other things. Exactly.
Carol Ventresca [:Exactly, Kelly. Thank you. Although you may not be on the podcast very soon again, I'm sure we'll come up with some reason for you to come back, but you and I are going to have more time to have lunch.
Kelly Fuller [:I'm so excited about that, actually. I have a list of places that we have to try.
Carol Ventresca [:Yes.
Kelly Fuller [:All around the world. Oh, yes.
Carol Ventresca [:I just went to a new restaurant the other day.
Kelly Fuller [:Okay.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, yeah, we're. We're. I got him. We're good.
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah. I think maybe we move like this, like, go beyond podcast and maybe just start doing Kelly and Carol, like culinary. I think there's a whole lot of alliteration there that we could mess with.
Carol Ventresca [:Absolutely.
Kelly Fuller [:Highlighting restaurants around the outer valve.
Carol Ventresca [:Yes, exactly. Oh, yeah, we could.
Brett Johnson [:We.
Carol Ventresca [:And there's so much to choose from. We can do that. And if you're really nice, Brett, we'll invite you to come and see.
Brett Johnson [:See us. Just to bring the equipment to record you.
Carol Ventresca [:Probably. Probably.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:And. And this is a whole new podcast for your company.
Brett Johnson [:Sure. Exactly.
Carol Ventresca [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you got it.
Carol Ventresca [:See, as I said, we've solved the problems of the world.
Brett Johnson [:All right.
Carol Ventresca [:So as I said, I'm a little bit sad, but excited for you. I know you are going to have wonderful new adventures and hopefully you'll drag us with you and to Enjoy and it'll be great fun. Before you start your next gig, we thought we would do a retrospect of workforce development in central Ohio for the past three decades that you have been involved. And as opposed to us just hearing what you have done or us just prognosticating on what lies in the future, which we've done a lot on this show, we want to talk about what has been, what's building our businesses, what is building central Ohio, what's going on about training employees, creating educational and training programs, facing the challenges that are coming in our economy. But let's first talk about the background that you have built in workforce development. What brought you to that workforce development landscape?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Kelly Fuller [:Well, thank you for the opportunity to share about that. When I share with you my journey in workforce as a profession, I think you'll probably see that I'm representative, I think, of a lot of workers and I'll share a little bit. I grew up in a very small town not too far from here, Circleville, home of the Pumpkin show, also home back in the 60s, 70s and even the early 80s to a lot of manufacturing. When you think about a small community, a rural community of about 14,000 people at that time we had DuPont, RCA, GE, Pittsburgh plate glass, as well as a lot of smaller manufacturers. So everybody in that little town had a parent working at one of those places. My father and all of my uncles worked at dupont. What that meant for me when I did decide to go away to college was I was going to be working in one of the factories during the summer. And it was DuPont one summer, it was Owens, Illinois, another summer.
Kelly Fuller [:But to step back a little bit, when you are growing up in a community like that, that's a very blue collar community, you don't always know what the jobs are that are out there. So I was good in school, I loved my teachers. So I thought I'll be a teacher and, and went to Miami of Ohio to become a teacher and realized during the student teaching phase that I really didn't enjoy being the only adult in a room with a bunch of third graders. And it wasn't that I didn't like children, it was just more of, well, yeah, there are some. Okay. Truth to be told, you know, that that can be a challenge for hours on end. But I thought I, you know, I need to figure this out. So I came back home to Circleville and luckily a company was launching called Discover Card.
Kelly Fuller [:They were being launched by the old Sears retailer and they needed people and they needed people in a call center over the Eastland Mall, over the Sears store, up on the top floor to kind of stand up this new card. And they hired me as a trainer. So a couple things I've already said about my journey in workforce. Didn't really know what I wanted to be. I was a first gen student. I looked around and saw maybe one career pathway that made sense for me, which was teaching, and then found out in the middle of that that that probably wasn't the best thing for me. But then thinking about, do I want to go back like I have been in the summers and work in the factory? Probably not either. They probably didn't want me back.
Kelly Fuller [:I had a record for wrecking forklifts. So that's.
Brett Johnson [:So you were the third grader then.
Kelly Fuller [:That's right. That's a whole other podcast. But what I did have was transferable skills. And those transferable skills that I learned to become a teacher were things like creating lessons, plans. Lesson plans. Understanding how people learn. So I became a corporate trainer at Discover Card. And I really have been in that kind of world ever since of either helping workers, incumbent workers, build their skills so that they could grow and become a better contributor to the workforce workforce, or then transitioning into the role that I have currently at the Columbus Chamber of Commerce of helping businesses understand all those things I just described about my own personal experience.
Kelly Fuller [:Who are these potential workers? What are they facing? What do they know, what do they don't know? Right.
Carol Ventresca [:And how many of us walk into our first job, sort of happenstance, and then it ends up defining our career path 100%.
Kelly Fuller [:If I hadn't been dating a graduate student at Ohio State who happened to have a best friend whose wife got $50 for every person she referred to this new company, Discover Card.
Carol Ventresca [:There you go.
Kelly Fuller [:Who knows, right?
Carol Ventresca [:Oh my gosh, yeah. And also a testament to a network.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely.
Carol Ventresca [:Every job I've gotten is a network job, 100%.
Kelly Fuller [:And I think that as we look at building that people side of it, that network, and also recognizing that whatever skill sets that we're developing, there is probably a transference there for other industries. So how do we not pigeonhole ourselves? How do we give ourselves more opportunity?
Carol Ventresca [:Right, Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, back in 1990, manufacturing was still the largest employer in Ohio, along with health services, retail and government. In today's Ohio, industries in professional and business services, education and health services are nearly double. Manufacturing, retail plateaued. Even though construction seems to be everywhere, it's not one of the highest industries in Ohio. What's happened in Ohio and Central Ohio to create these shifts in prevailing industries?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, that's a really great question. And it is kind of a strange thing when you think about construction, because any place you drive around the city, you see things being built, cranes in the sky. Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:You see them. Yeah.
Kelly Fuller [:Always interesting about manufacturing. The number of manufacturing jobs in Ohio has decreased substantially since the 90s, although the sector has continued to be still here, but looking very much different than what they looked before. Modernizing, looking at new technologies to become safer, to become more productive, and to be quite frank, to not need as many human beings in that space. There is a renewed push, as you probably all know, in advanced manufacturing, not just old school factories. Ohio is attracting investment in semiconductors, EV batteries. You hear about the Honda plant. Many have probably heard, you know, we're becoming not just an aviation center again, but a defense center. I mean, we're seeing, you know, investment from companies like Anduril in northern Pickaway county, you know, which is all about defense and, you know, drone technology and things that really are ways to not only protect our own country, but, you know, to sell those products to foreign, you know, interest as well.
Kelly Fuller [:We do remain one of the areas of the state, though, that has a growing population, which is really interesting. I mean, the central Ohio region, we continue to be leading in that space where other parts of the state, I think, are bleeding people. And those folks are either leaving the state of Ohio or they're coming here to Columbus. So when we look like, when we look at those folks coming from other areas, some of them are coming here with skill sets from industries that maybe are more obsolete now. When we think about rubber and steel and some of the other older type of auto manufacturing in the northeast, northwest part of the state, they're coming here bringing some of that skill set, but having to retool what that looks like for the current industries.
Carol Ventresca [:Well, this question, I had fun putting this question together. It gave me my opportunity to pull up statistics and take a look at what was going on. But I was really surprised when it showed the industries and how they had changed that. Professional business services, education and health services nearly doubled the number of people in manufacturing. We know those other industries were growing, but I didn't realize the number of people involved. But as you said, it's probably not so much the. The number of people in government, which is going down in business services, which AI is taking over, but it's the fact that manufacturing is still up there, but it needs a lot fewer people.
Kelly Fuller [:Needs a lot fewer people.
Carol Ventresca [:So this is really. We have to look not just at what industries are growing or what are not growing, but how many people it's going to need. Which goes to show that those labor statistics that we normally get and aren't always getting are critical. And I've talked to some career counselors who are like, what do we tell our kids?
Kelly Fuller [:So a couple things around that, those are really good points. The last comment that you made about how do we make good decisions about how to advise people on career pathways when we're not getting, I won't just say not getting reliable statistics. We're in some cases not getting anything to tell us and guide us. That's also impacting our business community. Because if I'm trying to determine if now's a good time to launch a new line of product or service, it's very difficult to do that if I'm not getting good real numbers or numbers at all. Another thing that's really driving how this particular region is looking, you probably all have heard both sides of the coin. We've also become a hub for data centers. And data centers tend to use a lot of resources, not necessarily people heavy, but they do take up large footprints of space and they do require a lot of water, a lot of power.
Kelly Fuller [:So even though those are getting a lot of press, there's some controversy around whether those types of businesses are in the best interest of the economic health of the region.
Carol Ventresca [:Right, right. Are there more shifts coming? Are we looking at different services sectors that are going to continue to dominate employment opportunities? Or do you. Do you see other kinds of industries that are going to come be coming to us?
Kelly Fuller [:Well, you did mention, I think the healthcare industry and some of the early projections back when we were getting reliable, consistent information, said that between the decade of 2020 through 2030 that healthcare and social assistance were projected to add 86,000 plus jobs. And that's in the state. And accommodation and food services also saw strong growth, though retail was expected to decline. A large part of that growth in retail is especially focused around caring for our senior population, whether that's home health care, senior care, outpatient services, or whatever that may be. If you pull up, and this has been consistent I think in the last seven years since I've been in this role at the Chamber of Seven plus plus, if you pull up Ohio State Medical center, if you look at Ohio Health, if you look at Mount Carmel, if you look at nationwide Children's, on any given day that you're pulling up what their positions that are open, you're looking between 900 and 1,000 positions that are currently open for each, for each.
Carol Ventresca [:One of those providers open looking for applicants.
Kelly Fuller [:So, yes. So they are what we all think about when we think about a hospital. Doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists, X ray technicians and HR people and IT people and security people. But they have a ton of those positions open.
Brett Johnson [:Basically all departments.
Kelly Fuller [:All departments, when it comes down to it. Absolutely. So when you think of anything that allows a hospital to be up and running and functioning, but those positions have stayed consistently open, obviously they're getting people in, they're turning over whatever that may be. But that does continue to still be kind of an in demand. We see that continuing to grow.
Carol Ventresca [:You know, when I left Ohio State, things were in disarray because of the recession, but the notion when I was talking to students just before I left is that we were going to have that silver tsunami of all of the seniors retiring and all these jobs were going to become available. Well, needless to say, that didn't happen. Students were having a lot of issues and problems. But it's sort of frightening to see what the opportunities are for kids now. How important it is that we have good information in working with them.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely.
Carol Ventresca [:It's just not, I guess if you haven't been in the guidance counseling type fields, it's probably hard to understand, but when you're trying to help a young person look at what's going to happen and map out their career, not for one or two or three or four years, but where do they see themselves and what job can they do today that's going to lead to Tomorrow's job to 10 years down the line job? So yeah, there's a lot of issues going there. As an aside, a friend of mine's niece graduated with her master's in an area, a professional licensed type position, had a job offer and everything was fine and dandy. And the Friday before she was supposed to start the new job, they pulled the offer.
Kelly Fuller [:Oh my gosh.
Carol Ventresca [:And this was a job that it had taken her approximately four months to find. And so those are the things that we need to try to avoid. Not only because it's really hard on the job applicants, but companies can't afford to be trying to pay for recruiting and for whatever reason, pulling back. But recruiting is expensive.
Kelly Fuller [:It is. And it's kind of a good news, bad news too when you think about some of the things that we've relied on in the last decade or so to help us find positions or to help us find talent. So, you know, platforms like LinkedIn and Indeed, where people can literally apply for thousands of jobs by pushing a button. And I know in my own role, when we've had openings in the past, we could get 600 applications for a position within minutes. Within minutes. And many are not qualified. They don't have any of the indices that say they'd be a good candidate. They may not even live close enough to have the job.
Kelly Fuller [:So the good news, bad news is the good news is people can apply readily, easily. We've tried to remove some of those barriers of people saying it's too cumbersome to create this application. The downside of that for the employer is you may be getting inundated and then you may also have fatigue on the part of that frontline HR person to go, I don't even know. It's really, really hard. People still get lost in the shuffle. I think we're seeing a lot more of good old fashioned. To your point, Carol, networking. Who do you know? Let's talk about who you know that's hiring and introduction over coffee and maybe go the old school route to kind of break down some of those.
Carol Ventresca [:And two, to help students and young folks understand that if you want to go into a growing industry, don't go and look at those positions with biases. I used to tell my former colleagues, hey, the one place that's growing are senior services and every senior service company needs an accountant. But that it's not sort of a sexy industry and so students shy away from it when in actuality the jobs there are really phenomenal. And it's not just caregiving jobs.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:Although Columbus Way seems to indicate we are a great place to live and do business. What do you see as assets of Columbus? And you know, really, mainly what are we missing? Are there challenges we're not meeting?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, yeah, we do hear a lot about the Columbus Way, don't we? And in fact, I think Harvard University has even created a study and a course on, you know, how, how do we do it here in Columbus? Some of the things that I see as our assets, and I think these are, you know, pretty obvious to a lot, but we, we don't have a reliance on any single industry dominance. I think we're, you know, you know, the old adage about not putting all of your eggs in one basket, I think so when we do have economic downturns with specific industries, we do have some protection in that. I think, you know, on recent diving into it, the region claims no major sector represents more than 18% of the economy. So that's That's a good way. That's a good balance for us to kind of give ourselves some cushion. We're also home to many large publicly traded Fortune 1000 companies. We have a lot of headquarters here that are, you know, readily recognized. Nationwide Insurance, Huntington Bank, Honda Automotive, aep, Cardinal Health, so many others, you know, that people recognize.
Kelly Fuller [:So we have that. We're also very blessed with our geography. I mean, one of the industries that continues.
Carol Ventresca [:We don't have a notion.
Kelly Fuller [:We do not have a notion. But talk to the folks out at Buckeye Lake. They will argue.
Carol Ventresca [:Definitely.
Kelly Fuller [:They will argue. Yeah, for sure, we got Buckeye Lake. But I think one of the reasons it's obvious that our supply chain and logistics industry and transportation is so strong is because we are geographically very well suited. I think it is something like 46% of the US population is within a 10 hour drive. A 10 hour drive seems like a really long time. But when you have an intermodal like Rickenbacker where you have rail, air and trucking, we're in pretty good shape. We also have great access to talent and research. We have a major university right up the street as well as so many other colleges and universities here.
Kelly Fuller [:I think some of our challenges will continue to be getting energy to those businesses. You know, we mentioned the data centers. You know, that's a huge, huge issue. And also, you know, are we, you know, able to provide affordable, accessible housing to all the people that currently need housing, as well as all the people we predict are coming here to fill these jobs at the MORPC state of the region this year, they indicated that that's probably our biggest Achilles heel right now. You know, if we're going to meet these growth projections and create more economic upward mobility for all, housing has to be addressed.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:And is that housing apartments or is it houses per se? I mean, have we figured that out?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, I think that's the tough question. Right, is how many, you know, how many units period do we need? Whether it's a combination of owner occupied homes or rental homes, I think much of what the solution is gonna need to require, which is a mix of all and kind of factoring in also the proximity to transportation, that's again, that other barrier for so many of our workers.
Carol Ventresca [:Right, right. One of the challenges that we always talked about when I was at Ohio State was keeping students here. And a lot of what the university and at the time the city of Columbus was doing was trying to create fun stuff so that they didn't miss the ocean, basically. But living downtown Having the short north and all the fun stuff that's going on there, lots of arts programs. Is that still on track or are we still still looking at Columbus? The cowtown. Who just had a cow on.
Kelly Fuller [:Just literally had a cow. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:In your neighborhood?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah. I got a text from my daughter saying this is the first time I haven't been able to get home because of a cow in the middle of the road.
Brett Johnson [:So old Marigold.
Kelly Fuller [:There you go, Marigold. I think when you talk to the folks at One Columbus and also experience Columbus, there is a real push to, you know, encourage people to live, work and play downtown and in the area. I think, you know, some of the challenges continue to be. Again, back to that housing piece. You know, we can encourage people to come downtown, live downtown, eat downtown, go to all the great concerts. But there is also a calculation everyone makes and how far do I want to drive to and from for that type of experience. So I think as we, you know, Brett, back to your question about how do we, you know, solve that housing issue? I think we need to look to cities like Toronto, who for years have figured out kind of more moving up as opposed to spreading out, and how can we do more in the mixed use space. So we're seeing housing and nail salons and restaurants all pulled together with affordable housing carved out for people working in those particular establishments.
Carol Ventresca [:In studying my urban sociology all those years ago, Columbus was unique in that we had two major freeways systems, 71 and 70, that literally went like northern tier of the US to the southern tier of the US and east to west right there. And a lot of land, a lot of land that Mayor Sensenbrenner was bringing into Columbus and a lot of strip malls that kept spreading us out. And so Columbus really is a commuter town for sure. And to realign that is not easy. Even all of the programs that CODA is putting together, they're still looking at creating new opportunities in terms of transportation and to convince people that it's okay to go by bus. You don't have to have your car. That's the big thing.
Kelly Fuller [:That's a tough sell, I think for a lot of folks. Absolutely. I think that's. You just probably identified, I think one of the big barriers to even participating in that solution of mass transit.
Carol Ventresca [:Right, right. Yeah. So workplaces themselves have dramatically changed over the past 30 years. For many of us, our dining room table is now our workplace. What do you see as the most dramatic changes to the work environments, company cultures, connections and communications between peers? What happened in the Past what's going on now?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, well, Covid certainly was a huge disruption. I mean, there's no way to, to get around that. And I think what we're seeing is in those positions that had the flexibility to be remote during COVID we have seen a huge push to bring people back to offices. And I was at a conference yesterday around family leave act, family medical leave pay. And it wasn't just about when we get sick or when a new child comes into our lives, but it was also put on as well by aarp. And what they talked about was how many of us are caring for either ourselves or an older family member. And that remote work, that ability to work on our own flexible schedules really allowed so many of us to be able to continue to take people to doctors to make sure their medications were being administered correctly and staying by long enough to see if you're going to be okay. Once you took it in a half hour ago with this push to get everyone back to the office, that's created a lot of kind of pushback on that.
Kelly Fuller [:You know, one of the statistics, and you probably already know this, both of you, but yesterday that kind of shocked me was the average age of a worker caring for a family. An older family member is 58. And they're caring for someone who's 69 or older. And this could be anything. Again from administering medications, getting them to doctor's appointments. That's really caused a lot, I think, of angst in the workforce. It's not just our, you know, we tend to think, oh, it's the younger folks that don't want to come back. You know, they're used to.
Kelly Fuller [:But it's, it's really across all generations for a multitude of different reasons. Companies need to figure that out. You know, how can people still get the work done and allow them to do it in a way that still, you know, gives them the ability to satisfy what they need to do outside the office space.
Carol Ventresca [:And that 58 year old likely has grandchildren that their kids can't afford daycare.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely. That was the other thing that I think we saw as one of the major shifts when we were at the height of COVID when so many people were struggling to find childcare, they'd often turn to a parent who might also still be working, who then may have stepped out of the workplace early in order to solve that problem. Now getting those folks back into the workplace place is a challenge as well.
Carol Ventresca [:Well, because loss of skill levels during this last five years and in some ways if they financially don't have to be in the workplace. They don't want to come back, folks like me. But if they financially do wanna be in the workplace, there are issues in terms of pay and what the benefits are. We had that conversation when we did our that panel a couple of years ago. Which way? What could employers do for younger adults as well as for older adults in the workplace? How do benefits change? Great healthcare for young folks could be translated to supplemental insurance for those who are on Medicare. Absolutely. And to rethink where those benefit plans were going.
Kelly Fuller [:So, yeah, I think one of the other social issues that we may be facing, you know, Columbus, as our region, we're very blessed to have a large foreign born population, whether they're here as refugees, immigrants, migrants on a student visa status. With so much of the turmoil that's currently taking place with the federal government and what those different statuses mean, those issues around, how are we taking care of those people who have been born outside the United States, who have become a part of the workforce that our businesses rely on? It's kind of all up in the air right now. And we're at the chamber trying to stay ahead of that, working with our friends at Jewish Family Services, Community Refugee immigration Services, and quite frankly with some immigration attorneys as well. So we can best advise our business community.
Carol Ventresca [:So, Kelly, over the past 30 years, Ohio's unemployment rate has ranged anywhere from 5.7% back in 1990 up to 10 over 10% during the recession in 2009. And then we ended 2024 around 4.4%. Except for those recession years, the numbers have really not been that high. It could indicate that Ohio lacks workers for open or new positions. What should employers prepare for and what should they be doing to remain competitive in this economy? Knowing that we are on the cusp of a drop in population for a generation that where there was a lower birth rate.
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, absolutely. I know I've talked about this before as the three of us have had these conversations over the years, but really tapping into underutilized talent pipelines, you know, making sure that you're talking to Those in the K12 space, our refugee and immigrant community, our adults with varying abilities, our older workers, those 50 and older, you know, really connecting in that way. And then don't, you know, don't neglect your incumbent workforce, you know, the folks that you already have with you, you know, continue to monitor the state of the worker. Really look at your hiring onboarding policies as well as your leave policies. You know, I mentioned, you know, family medical leave, but also Things like bereavement leave. If you look at, you know, a lot of companies, they still have a standard three days bereavement for, for the loss of a spouse or a child or a parent. Really, in order to be competitive and get ahead of that, we really have to be thinking more about from the.
Brett Johnson [:People side of the house tax abatements, those gifts, building streets or providing utilities to entice new businesses. Some people call it corporate welfare, whatever you want to do. But I think it's a topic of conversation that more and more people are looking at and scratching our head, going, wait a minute.
Carol Ventresca [:Particularly as our county income tax or.
Brett Johnson [:Property taxes, it seems to be affecting a lot of things. Do you see this as the only way we can bring in economic growth, or are there paths that we can follow? What role could our educational and nonprofit organizations play as well, too?
Kelly Fuller [:Now, that's a great question. I think it's a fair question that everybody that is a citizen, taxpayer, member of the community, needs to be asking and being a part of, you know, possibly a few ideas, you know, build quality infrastructure not just for one business or one entity, you know, but to, you know, help an entire area grow, you know, as opposed to looking at just, you know, installing power or roads or, you know, whatever that might look like. You know, invest in improvements so that there can be more beneficiaries than just one company. Again, even going back to the, you know, putting your eggs in one basket, what happens if that company comes with? I mean, we've, you know, we've really kind of put ourselves in a bad position. You know, look at broadband expansion so that mo more individuals and companies have access to that water, sewer, the modernization that needs to happen. I live in Bexley. You can't drive through South Bexley right now without going, you know, coming up against a street that's closed. And we might get a little cranky about it, but they're upgrading, you know, our water and sewage pipes.
Kelly Fuller [:So, you know, we need to do more of that and more public transportation that connects kind of bespoke, you know, not just the inner part of the downtown, but really, you know, to your point, Carol, we are very large, you know, city Columbus, you know, how are we best connecting all of those as well, not just around, you know, one particular business? Brad?
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah, you know, that's a good point, because as you said, there is no guarantee that the city and the state could dump a lot of money into an entity that never opens its doors. We are battling that now in the northeast sections of the of the county and why not build an infrastructure that is going to take care of multiple companies that are also across multiple industries? Yeah, I remember when the Rickenbacker area was all built up and all of those warehouses I have, I mean, at one point nobody was in those warehouses. They hadn't been able to really fill them. They built them and they all looked alike. But I don't even know what's going on down there now. What can we do to encourage politicians that. I sort of don't like corporate welfare either, but I also do believe that we should support businesses coming into the area. What message can people like us tell politicians so that they don't see it as threatening message that we don't want businesses? That's not the message.
Kelly Fuller [:That's not the message. You know, I think the message is, you know, we talked about the assets that we already have. You know, let's really, you know, like, let's really tout those assets. You know, talent, the fact that we're regionally, you know, geographically in such a good spot and you know, we have been competitive in the past with winning contracts and getting businesses based on those assets as well. And also when we're going after businesses or industries that either don't have a lot of job creation and we know that upfront, or they don't fulfill those obligations for job creation, that really does have an impact on all the social services and you know, the economic welfare of the entire region. So I think if we focus on those assets, you know, the fact that we have an educated population, great geographic location, but also talk about, you know, again, not putting all of our eggs in one basket and making sure that more people are being the beneficiary of it. Do we really want to be attracting businesses that are only going to hire 35 people or they promise to hire 200 and over a 15 year period they hire a third of that.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and to your point too, that if you're dealing with industries and let's just say it's data centers, they would be hard pressed to get to that 18%. But the land use, the land use for sure is than quote, unquote, what 18% employment would be? You know, it's kind of that we have to have different gauges. Possibly.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely.
Carol Ventresca [:Doesn't that really bring up the issue that there are really times when there aren't a lot of choices of what to bring into the state? It's not that whether we want or don't want data centers, it's the fact that that's what's the going industry right now and you know, what else is out there? Until we really get to the point of supporting businesses and supporting industries in such a way that it builds at home so that we are taking care of not just the company and their tax abatements, but individuals are getting the education and the training that they need and families are getting the support they need so somebody can go to work and has transportation and has housing. I mean, it's really where we look at these issues as individual issues and they're really not. They all kind of sort of float back together.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely. And what you just described too, Carol then says, if we're, you know, investing in the people and we're helping them grow and develop skills, then we can attract different types of industries too, that rely on those types of skills.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Kelly Fuller [:And really start to promote that. So, yeah, it's a, it's a very dynamic time right now. There's a lot, you know, going on. I think we're all still trying to figure out what does automation mean, what does AI mean, you know, when it comes to all the different jobs. And, you know, when you see things like Amazon, you know, laying off like 13,000 people with plans for that to be even higher in Q1 of next year. And those are, you know, jobs all up and down the spectrum of preponderance, actually at the white collar positions. So.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Kelly Fuller [:You know, it's a kind of makes you sit back and go, you know, what's going on right now with one of the largest, you know, companies in the world.
Carol Ventresca [:Well, and when you brought up the, the white collar positions, right now we are at a time that's very similar to the recession of 2008, when for the first time ever, middle management lost their positions. And that was huge. And it took us years to recover from that. And we could be venturing into that issue again.
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, for sure. It's scary. So we do tell people to, you know, when I say people, I'm talking about businesses, you know, to kind of really, you know, look at what is your product, what is your service, you know, how are you providing that? You know, are there better ways, you know, how are you developing your people, not just the pipeline coming up, but the people that you currently have as well.
Carol Ventresca [:Right, right. Oh, yeah. So I don't know if you're seeing this or hearing anything about it at the Chamber right now, but it seems that there for a while after Covid, people were popping in and out of jobs pretty quickly and they're jumping Here and there for whatever reason. And it seems like folks are trying to hold on right now, even though they're slipping and sliding right into layoffs. Are you hearing that a lot?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, I've actually just read an article last week. I think it was in one of the SHRM publications. The Society of Human Resource Management. A new term to me. New, at least to me. Job hugging.
Carol Ventresca [:Yes, I saw that.
Kelly Fuller [:Which is, you know, seem like kind of sweet, but. But you know, when you think. But when you're thinking about what's happening is. Yeah, I may not be totally happy here. I may feel like this isn't, you know, my, you know, dream job or I don't see myself staying here long term, but right now, you know, because things are so in flux or I feel so uncertain, you know, I'm just going to hold on, going to hug it a little bit, you know, longer and stay. So I think we are seeing, you know, kind of more of that stickiness. It may not be for all the reasons that we want it to be. I think that's what as employers, we need to be cognizant of.
Kelly Fuller [:It may be people hanging on because they're just too afraid.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Kelly Fuller [:And we want people to actually feel secure and committed and supported in the work where when they're with all of.
Carol Ventresca [:Our employers and the business will be more successful if they're workers, are. You've been with us several times. We always ask you for your last words of wisdom, but I want you to pull out that crystal ball that you have. What should we be doing to grow Central Ohio businesses and how should job seekers plan for that future?
Kelly Fuller [:Yeah, that's a great question and I always appreciate that you guys asked that at the end of your podcast. I think for businesses, for community members, stay people, centric. I mean, we have all these big ideas about growing and developing and increasing all of this economic investment here, but really what does that mean to the citizens that are coming in here and the folks who already live here? So as we are continuing to grow, you hear a lot of nimby, you hear a lot of things about that Sounds good, but not here. Let's all be thoughtful developers and leaders about what are we trying to attract and how do we make the people that we're trying to attract feel good, like they belong and that the people that are already here feel seen and supported as well. For job seekers, this is just my advice to anybody, period. Period. Just be curious. The job that you currently have may look different in six months.
Kelly Fuller [:The job that you may aspire to, you know, may not even exist yet. So just stay curious about what's happening. You know, be involved, you know, pay attention to what is going on, not just nationally, but really about what's happening locally and you're own community.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. Learn as much as you can in that position.
Kelly Fuller [:That's right.
Carol Ventresca [:You're going to take it with you with all your other transferable skills.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely. You may not be a third grade teacher. You might end up being a corporate trainer somewhere.
Carol Ventresca [:Exactly. That's why I, you know, after I had 12 year olds at Girl Scout camp as a counselor, that took me right out of the running of being a teacher, I'll tell you. So, Kelly, thank you. It's so good to see you. We have to, to come up with reasons for you to come back and see us.
Kelly Fuller [:Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:Oh yeah, yeah. Many thanks to our experts. Kelly Fuller, Senior Vice President of Workforce and Workplace Innovation for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. Listeners, thank you for joining us. You're going to find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast show Notes on the website looking forwardourway.com and we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.
