Shownotes
Ben Hoeger, Director, Private Wealth Management – Baird, shares valuable advice on building a strong financial foundation.
Hoeger stresses the critical role of referrals in selecting reliable financial advisors and advocates for a meaningful, almost friendly relationship with them for a successful long-term partnership.
We discuss the shift from reliance on pensions and social security to individual responsibility for retirement savings. Plus, start financially sound habits early, especially for those within the gig economy.
Our conversation touches on the need for purpose-driven financial planning and the dynamic nature of managing one’s finances as life evolves. Retirement planning should focus on the context of one’s life goals, encouraging listeners to find their purpose that can steer financial decisions.
Top Takeaways
**Referrals for Trustworthy Advisors**: Start your search for financial advisors by asking for referrals from friends, family, and colleagues.
**Relationships Matter**: Aim to build a close, friendship-like relationship to foster long-term collaboration and tailored advice.
**Continuous Financial Education**: Engage in continuous learning and self-advocacy to maintain confidence in your financial decisions.
**Understanding Personal Financial Purpose**: Recognize that understanding your unique financial purpose is key to making smart money choices that align with your personal values and long-term aspirations.
**The Need for Flexibility in Retirement Planning**: Plan for retirement with flexibility, acknowledging the uncertainty of future costs, potential health issues, and the evolving nature of personal circumstances.
Memorable Moments
06:33 Start preparing early, plan prevents detours.
09:40 Creating a financial plan adds structure to life.
17:18 Planning for financial independence and long-term goals.
20:39 Importance of purpose, vision, and focus.
32:30 Personal retirement responsibility, start good habits early.
35:03 Retirement dynamics shifting due to changing employment.
40:49 Discussing financial planning for retirement and taxes.
42:08 Diversification in investments and taxes for retirement.
45:08 Maximize tax savings through strategic investment planning.
51:36 Utilize your network for trustworthy CPAs and attorneys.
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Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle270Media Podcast Consultants.
Copyright 2024 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson
Transcripts
We are Looking Forward Our Way from Studio C in the 511 Studios in the Brewery District to south of downtown Columbus, Ohio. Hi. This is Brett. Many seniors continue working because they want to. However, others work because they have to. There was a recent report detailing the state of retirement stability in the US less than 1 third of the retirees surveyed reported they had any retirement savings. Think of that. 1 third weren't prepared.
Brett Johnson [:They'd had nothing and then less than 25% had reached the level of savings they hoped to have by the time they retired. Well, today, we're going to discuss how adults both young and old can take the necessary steps to reach financial stability in retirement. Let's welcome Benjamin Heger. He is the director of Private Wealth Management at Robert w Baird and Company. Thanks for joining us.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks for having me in today. I'm excited to be here. I think this is gonna be a great discussion, great topics, very timely. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. When isn't it?
Ben Hoeger [:Right? I mean,
Brett Johnson [:honestly, because it's you
Ben Hoeger [:know, it's Timeless topics.
Brett Johnson [:It
Carol Ventresca [:is. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Ben, for for joining us today and, I was really lucky to have parents who
Ben Hoeger [:were good managers of their finances. Many don't
Carol Ventresca [:learn those lessons. My mother was always on top of like, did you do this? Did you do that? Even as I was My mother was always on top of like, did you do this? Did you do that? Even as I was beginning my adult years, when you don't have those lessons, you can't gain that knowledge to move on to the right path. You have to find the resources that are going to help you. We have lots to cover today. It's going to be a great discussion. But let's hear a little bit more about your background and what brought you to Baird.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you again. So, you know, I've been in this, some role of Carol wealth management, for coming up on around 20 years, starting as an intern, with my now business partner, Jeff Headley. So he and I started almost 20 years ago, and he would have an incredible funny story probably to share with us here today about when I walked in to interview with him as an intern in college. It was probably an oversized suit Forward dad. I mean, probably looks ridiculous.
Carol Ventresca [:Which school were you at?
Ben Hoeger [:It's at Otterbein.
Carol Ventresca [:Otterbein University. Go Cards. Right? Exactly.
Ben Hoeger [:I wish I wish I could shove the in front of that. But I know. I can't trademark that. I know.
Carol Ventresca [:Yes, audience. Yes. Brett has fits with me because I'm always bringing my Otterbein folks on. But, Way.
Brett Johnson [:It's okay.
Carol Ventresca [:It's alright.
Brett Johnson [:That's alright.
Carol Ventresca [:They're brilliant. That's why. They're they're
Brett Johnson [:experts in their field. We'll go with it.
Ben Hoeger [:We've got we've got a great group coming out of there. So so that's that's where it all started over 20 years ago. And the last 15 years, I've been partners with Jeff, at Baird. It's actually this past February. We just celebrated our 15th, year at Baird. At The Point, right now, we have 6 people on our team. So we've really grown over that time. We started as a 3 3 person team 15 years ago.
Ben Hoeger [:And now we have 6 folks on our team. Recently added a gentleman from Ohio University and, a couple a couple other folks. And so, we continue to grow, serve about 350 families across the country. So we we, you know, tend to spread ourselves out a little bit and navigate across the country as folks move. Right? And that's usually how that stuff comes about. But been in various roles over those years, but, the last 15 has been specifically dedicated to what we're here to talk about today, which is helping families and individuals, with their finances. Right? So over that over that time, again, several different roles, but, you know, being here at Baird, what has been so phenomenal about this is there's a lot of unique things about Baird, but more than anything and we we actually just got Our recent accolade of being on the Forbes, Greatest Companies to to work for again. And and we've been on, really lengthy streak there of hitting that list.
Ben Hoeger [:And if you would ask, I think, anybody at Baird what it is that makes us unique, that we we keep hitting that list. It's really our culture and the fact that you really feel like you're a part of a family when you're with Baird. I mean, this is absolutely phenomenal environment, to to be at. And and ultimately, that all funnels down to the families that we work with. Because ultimately, that's creating much better outcomes for them. Being privately owned, employee owned, we're able to look much further into the future and, make significant investments that ultimately help all the folks that we work with. So it's not even just about us and having a great environment for us to work at. It's Brett and better outcomes for people.
Ben Hoeger [:So we're truly blessed to be there.
Carol Ventresca [:And, you know, I one of one of the things that sort of just hit me and it it's because I'm always listening when people talk internships. It's so important for young people to get professional development. I would I'm guessing that it's not often that a young intern can immediately get into a position in a company that they're going to be there for a long period of time, that that internship was so successful and important to their career projection. So I think that's, our audience tends to be mostly older adults, but if you've got kids and grandkids, that's an important lesson for you to give to them. That that professional development as a young person could literally mean your career going forward.
Ben Hoeger [:Oh, absolutely. I had a economic professor at Otterbein, and he, would always preach that your internship, you should be gaining something from that you take back to the classroom. And what you're learning in the classroom, you should be taking to your internship. And there should be this great relationship both ways. And, you know, I I I latched onto that idea. And and, Jeff, over so many years, has been so phenomenal in in nurturing the education that I have and along with several other folks that have really been incredible mentors along the way to me that I owe so much to, but, it's just been a phenomenal opportunity. And like you said, it started from something I never would have guessed it would have been what it is today. Exactly.
Brett Johnson [:Well, as in every project Way begin, a a plan is essential, but it's not always easy to create a financial plan. What is that saying? You failed a plan. You plan to fail. Right. That's true. You know, I guess there's some truism to that. So, are we ever too old or too young to create a financial plan? You know, realizing that the expectations will likely change over time. Why is a plan so important and and and you know, how can we ensure the plan is flexible enough to pivot as needed especially if you started let's say 25, your needs are much different than 35.
Brett Johnson [:Just 10 years, 35, 45, 55, it continues to evolve.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. So, absolutely. So, one, we're never too old or too young to to start preparing. Right? And and that's that's really how I think about this plan. It's it's, it's the fact that you're putting in time and effort to prepare for something. Right? There's obvious advantages to getting started sooner in life, but at the end of the day, you know, I I I'm gonna use a golf analogy, and I shared with you my my golf experience. I'm gonna bring this in here in a second, but, you know, there aren't many mulligans in life. Right? And so having a plan that can give you some kind of guide of saying, if I if I detour off of here, how am I gonna get myself back on the track? Right? So I've shared with you all earlier that I was fortunate to go down and and, see the practice round at the Masters, and I was standing with a gentleman that, Brett, great friend of mine and we're we're watching and, you know, this is a practice round and I we saw Tiger Woods off on the 15th green and he honestly probably stood there and hit chip shots from just about every possible area for a solid 20, 30 minutes.
Ben Hoeger [:And this is a man that is an incredible golfer. Right? And you see the work that he puts in on a course that he's already paid played so many times, and it stuck out to both of us being business leaders and the fact that the amount of preparation someone puts in is equal to what they're expecting to do on the back end. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Ben Hoeger [:And so I I think this, you know, that kind of speaks to me and it stood out as I was thinking about, you know, some of the things we're gonna talk about here today that that preparation, that planning is gonna be equal to the outcome that you that you achieve ultimately.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? And so without that plan, regardless of if it's old, young, etcetera, without that plan, how do you know if you're on track? How do you know if you're okay? Right? Other than maybe a gut feeling.
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm.
Ben Hoeger [:And that, you know, for a lot of folks, we we bring this back to a very basic question a lot of times. You know, finances and everything can be very overwhelming, and can create anxiety for a lot of folks. Right? It's why so many people just don't talk about this on a regular basis. I'm reading a book right now, called Geometry of Wealth by Brian Portnoy. And he he talks about this idea that with your friends, colleagues, etcetera, you you'll know about their marriage. You'll know about their house and very intimate details. Right? You never talk about money. Right? People just don't talk about
Brett Johnson [:It's amazing how that's become I don't wanna call it taboo, but it it kind of is. You just don't talk about money. Don't talk about money. Like, it's almost that to be embarrassed by what you do or don't know or
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:I guess. And and I think what you just said it goes back to that it's it can be complicated. It can be Our it's just, anxiety driven.
Carol Ventresca [:And and
Ben Hoeger [:it can be messy. Right? Finances are messy. I think a lot of people are searching for one exact answer. You know? Right? Everybody wants clarity and certainty. And the reality is is the sooner that we can wrap our mind around the fact that there's not much certainty in in this idea of finances. I think the the sooner that we can make really good decisions as we move along.
Brett Johnson [:I would think the certainty is that if you don't do something, you won't have anything. Right. I mean, there is a certainty to that.
Carol Ventresca [:At least,
Brett Johnson [:Brett at least go at it intelligently.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. This this my the analogy as a career counselor, people students, older adults would come up to me and say, you know, well, show me what a perfect resume looks like. Well, there is no perfect resume. There is a wonderful opportunity to look and see who you are and what you've done and what your skills are and strengths and all of that. And it's the same thing with creating a financial plan. Yes. It's messy, but if you actually put it down on paper, it's gonna be a lot clearer and a lot more, structured than you realize that it it probably is. But because it's just all floating, all those little bits and pieces are floating in your head, it doesn't seem like there's any, structure to it.
Carol Ventresca [:So that brings me right into my question. We need to create this retirement financial plan. I'm going to assume that the first step is to look at our current financial status. We need to know what we have, then determine what we want and how we're going to get there. What do you tell your clients about this plan? Its role and importance, what they should include, maybe there are things they don't have to include, and can you incorporate both those short and long term goals? Because that's really different than just putting a list of accounts down. And we're going to talk about resources throughout this podcast. But, you know, anytime there are resources out there, that's what we really want to get to our folks, too.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. Absolutely. So a lot of lot of things to unpack there. Right? And, you know, I would one thing I would start with, and here's where maybe our our thoughts of how you go about this planning process might be a little bit different than what, maybe maybe your average experience with an advisor might be. And and I think that's where, honestly, we're at a bit of a a tipping point, I think, in our industry, where how we think about goals versus purpose is starting to evolve a bit. Right? So, you know, go back 20, 30 years ago, and our industry was all about, basically, a brokerage business. In other words, let's call it similar to real estate. You're buying and selling.
Ben Hoeger [:You're transacting. Right? And then it started to evolve as folks needed more, planning around specific goals. Right? But it it was usually specific goals. I wanna buy this beach house. I wanna retire by 65. What whatever those things are. Right? But there are defined goals. And as we continue to push forward, I think what we see changing is this idea of having this purpose or vision.
Ben Hoeger [:And and the and the reason that we're starting to dig deeper and kind of peel back those layers, and we want to understand the purpose and the vision, I could give you a Brett story here to kind of weave into, you know, how how we think about this and why you should start with the purpose as you go about this planning, this planning, goal. If you were to go and say, hey. One of my goals are I wanna buy this beach house. Great. If we were to just document that and say, okay. We gotta strive towards that. We gotta save, etcetera. We have some kind of quantifiable thing that we're shooting for.
Ben Hoeger [:But you asked earlier, Brett, about, you know, as as things change, how how does that plan evolve and change? And, you know, to come back to that, the one thing that we are uncertain about, I've never met a person that says, this is how I expected my life to go, and it went exactly that way. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Don't we all?
Ben Hoeger [:I've never I've never met someone that said everything played out exactly as I thought it would over 40, 50, 60 plus years. Right? So the reality is Way know those things are gonna change. But so that those goals might have to change. Your financial resources might have to change. But maybe if we were to think of our purpose as our North Star, that's what's always gonna bring us back. So to bring to bring us back to this conversation of I wanna own a own a a beach house Our I wanna own a second, you know, vacation home. If you really get at the heart of what that is and you keep peeling back layers and asking why, not in a challenging way, but just trying to understand why, It might, you know, sound something like, well, I I wanna spend time with my family. Okay.
Ben Hoeger [:What what about spending time with the family at that beach house? Well, that's where I grew up, and I did that. Right? Amazing. That's great. Tell me more. Well, I I had such great memories. I wanna share that with my kids. Okay. We're getting somewhere.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? What's really important to you is not that beach house in North Carolina. What's important to you is the fact that you had such great memories growing up, and you wanna be able to build those same memories with your family. So now suddenly, as time passes, your financial resources change, whatever it might change about your life, where suddenly that Way might just not be in the picture to to get that. So what do we come back to? Our North Star was you want to create memories and and time ultimately with that relationship, that very important relationship with your kids, grandkids, etcetera. So how can we recreate that? Right? That ultimately is our goal. In my mind, that's ultimately our goal. It's not necessarily to own that beach house. And so if if we're able to get at the heart of that, I feel like we as as a team, in particular, our group, at Baird, we're able to do a great job to really help you, really reach this idea of of wealth, which, you know, that that book I was just referencing, geometry of wealth, he talks a lot about being rich versus wealthy.
Ben Hoeger [:And wealthy is kind of this idea of this funded contentment. Right? I'm I'm happy. I'm fulfilled. Riches, you're chasing goods and and more stuff. But the idea of being fulfilled from that is is kind of fleeting. Right? And so, you know, once you get through that big first goal of I I gotta get this idea of this purpose. What's my North Star? I think that's when you can start to get a little bit more granular about what those goals look like. What are the financial resources? Sometimes I tell people it's kind of the the getting organized meeting.
Ben Hoeger [:Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm.
Ben Hoeger [:Again, we have so much stuff going on. You can be spread out from prior jobs. You got old retirement plans here, there. You got different you know, you got a life insurance policy you took out when you were 25 and you forgot about it. It's getting organized and getting all that stuff down in in one place. So we we really start to understand how can we connect the dots again between purpose and plan and plan and resources. Right? There's multiple layers here that we gotta make sure we're connecting. Ultimately, trying to make this so much more meaningful to to you and and your family is our objective.
Carol Ventresca [:And and so many of us started excuse me. Our financial plan really Way more of a budget. Absolutely. It was more of like I need to figure out what income I have and where I'm throwing it, you know, where where it's going not just to things, but to what accounts and do I have a savings account or retirement account. And so if you can pull all that together, actually, your estate, quote unquote, is probably a lot larger than you realized.
Ben Hoeger [:Oftentimes it is.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. Get it Johnson paper. Yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:Oftentimes, it is. Abs absolutely. It's it's much more than I think people realize. I I think the other thing that you you point out there when you start to pull those resources together, you you might understand that you're to your point, you're on a better track than you thought, and those goals and that purpose might start to evolve. Again, that's that that's this idea that this is a never ending project. Right? A plan. It's a snapshot in time. I tell people all this all this time when they meet with us and they think this plan is like it's like this document that you do this once and it's like the Rosetta Stone and we're done.
Ben Hoeger [:Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Like a resume. It's not done undone. No.
Ben Hoeger [:It is never it is never done is my experience. We're in a I always tell people we're in a constant state of draft. Right? We're in a constant state of draft because tomorrow, you could call me and tell me something completely changed in your life. Right. Right? Absolutely completely changed. And and we gotta continue to roll with those continue to roll with those punches over time.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well and that leads to what we wanna talk about next even, you know, from an individual or a couple standpoint, you know, you're creating that financial plan. The eventual step is to leave full time employment for a different or new lifestyle. Part of the planning is to project what they would like to do like Carol or move to a new location. How can the plan help them determine the income level they need to reach those long term goals projecting cost years or maybe decades in the future. And what did I hear just recently that, you know, you can retire now comfortably at a1000000 and a half dollars or something like that. And and I I saw that number going, that's a meaningless number when you don't put all the factors we just talked about into play.
Carol Ventresca [:And and a1000000 today is nothing compared to what, you know what it you would need 20 years from now. A million doesn't Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Or it could be well more than enough if you have a lifestyle that's just yeah. We just wanna take small vacations and just, you know, hang out. I mean, it is it's that Way. Now we're ready. You know, it did it it is a different look at it and maybe, you know, address that.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. So absolutely. So one thing that I Way start with it people people ask me this all the time. We sit down and it's always great. I'll I'll meet a family for the first time, and and they they're so gracious about sharing everything. And and, again, this is a moment of, you know, them just sharing their life and putting it out there. And and we talked earlier about how this is uncomfortable. Right? And so very gracious about sharing this.
Ben Hoeger [:And then they'll look at me and they'll say, so do you think I'm okay?
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm.
Ben Hoeger [:How am I how am I doing compared to my my neighbor or my peers? Yes. And if he, you know, he and and I always hit him with the same line every time. And I say, you know, I I think, you know, I I I it's gonna take me time to get back to you and let you know about your specific situation. And here's the reason why. There will be folks we work with that have, you know, 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars, and I'm worried about them every day. And then there's folks that have a couple $100,000, and I'm not worried about them for a second because they're gonna be perfectly fine. It's all about what is your life. So that that idea of that dollar amount, people are aiming for this dollar amount.
Ben Hoeger [:Does that dollar amount mean anything? Well, that dollar amount, it can mean something completely different from one family to the other. It's all about what that lifestyle is. So a lot of times, you know, to to your question here, Brett, you know, we we always wanna start with what's your life look like today and and start to ask, get back to the idea of purpose and vision. You know, I think of athletes, Again, to not to beat on this golf analogy, but, Way, we're in Masters week, so why not?
Carol Ventresca [:Right? Exactly.
Ben Hoeger [:So, you know, you you hear from these, you know, amazing golfers and you tell them, and you'll even watch them when they go to hit a shot. And you can see that they're envisioning where they think this thing's gonna go, the shape of it, everything. Right? And and this comes from a lot of, you know, great athletic psychologists that you gotta envision what you're about to do. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Ben Hoeger [:And so, you know, one of the conversations we like to spend quite a bit of time on, especially for folks that are at this moment in time that they're gonna transition to retirement. What does this look like for you? I literally before I came down here and hopped on this with you all, I had a great conversation, wonderful woman we work with out in Pennsylvania, just phenomenal lady. And I you know, she said, I I wanna move to you know, I wanna move further south. And I was like, oh, just warm weather? What is it? And she said, I've always had this vision of me sitting on the beach with my toes in the sand. I'm like, there's an image. Yeah. And we gotta hold on to it. Right? Yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:And and I tell everyone, you know, and here's the importance of this purpose and vision and holding on to this versus goals that it starts to feel like you're chasing this goal over time. You know, we were talking earlier about this being an election year, and and that can create certain emotions when it comes to your money. Right? And I think it's important to understand that there's so much news. We're just inundated with news and information. And I tell people a lot of times, a lot of this stuff day to day is noise. It's like you're on a radio dial and you're between stations and you're getting the scramble. Right? And that that noise can confuse us from what our ultimate mission is here. Right? But if we have that vision that we can keep coming back to, the second someone calls and says, well, don't you think we should change this or that? Do you still wanna see yourself sitting on the beach with toast in the sand? Yes.
Ben Hoeger [:Has anything changed? No. Then why are we changing our plan? Right? It gives us that anchor point that we can always come back to ultimately, making sure that we're lining up our purpose, our plan, and how our resources are aligned to get us in that direction ultimately.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Because a lot of it is retirees don't even know what they want to do once they retire. You've worked all your life and and all of a sudden next day you're not going into work.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:And you've not made a plan Right. To retire. So it's almost this is kind of helping you bridge that gap to a certain to make you think about it. What's your life gonna be like when you're not working?
Carol Ventresca [:Well, and also Do
Brett Johnson [:you want to volunteer? Do you want to do It makes you think.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. And it gives you the resources
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:That you can step out of employment Right. And do some fun kinds of things.
Ben Hoeger [:So we we we talk a lot about this idea. One one of the things that kinda creates a little bit of, like, mini panic for me when I when I see this, when when we're sitting down and chatting with someone. And I Way, well, when you're trying to retire, what does this mean to you? And they're like, well, I just I I gotta get away from my work. It's it's killing me. Right? And that tells me they are not retiring to something. They're retiring away from something. Retiring away from something is our biggest fear and this is where we've really started to turn the script upside down and Way, we need to make sure we have another resource around life planning that is really built around this idea of, understanding what your purpose is and what drives you day to day. Because for a lot of folks, their work is their identity, and when they walk away from that, you know, what we've seen and and why we've our our teams, specifically, have started to, you know, go down this route, invest a lot of resources behind it, ultimately trying to support the families that we work with is because we've seen folks use money as they're chasing this fulfillment.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? And as as opposed to this idea of if you're kinda covering all, you know, kind of 4 legs of the stool, if we were to think about it that way around purpose, relationships, your health, and your finances. That's how we really look at retirement. And and you gotta have all 4 to really feel like you're getting that fulfilling Right. Retirement. And if you start to miss any of those pieces, we we tend to see folks making a little bit more erratic decisions. Mhmm.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. And and often even continue working even if it is killing them because they're afraid to walk to nothing. 100%. Because that's what they see it. It's it's a it's a as or, either or.
Ben Hoeger [:Yep.
Carol Ventresca [:I'm either working or I'm retired and it's, you know, it and there are lots of pieces in between that needless to say.
Ben Hoeger [:And and ultimately, everybody is looking for a little bit more freedom and time. Right? That's what everybody is looking for.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, absolutely.
Ben Hoeger [:Even if
Brett Johnson [:it comes down to the job is killing me, I want the freedom of time so it's not killing me.
Ben Hoeger [:Right. Absolutely.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. Well, and that's and we've we've done lots of discussions with individuals who it's not that they wanna leave the work world. They just want a more flexible schedule. That's how I am. I'm I'm willing to do these podcasts, just not at 8 o'clock in the morning, Brett.
Brett Johnson [:I've never asked her to
Ben Hoeger [:do that
Carol Ventresca [:either. Well, he could ask all he wants when I'm not showing up. No. Yeah. So so when we're looking at these at these plans and and linking them to retirement, it sounds like something you start when you're 40s 50s. In actuality, I talked to my young cousins and I'm like, you're 20. You need to think about this now. They they can't even imagine what retirement would be 40, 50 years down the line, but it really never is too early to plan because it's never too early to start to save.
Carol Ventresca [:That notion of compounding interest in wealth building comes with decades, not just a few years. But it it's difficult for 20 something even for those who are, you know, in their early 30s, it's probably difficult. How do you guide younger clients to begin and then how do you guide those clients as they hit those decade time periods?
Ben Hoeger [:Yep. So so Carol, you you hit on something earlier about yourself with your parents and kind of your experience of coming up around money. Right? Our experiences Forward life, whether it be our friends, colleagues, or family, it's gonna shape a lot of the ways that we make decisions as we move through life. Right? And so when when we start talking with someone in their twenties, thirties, whatever it might be, I wanna spend a decent amount of time understanding some of that. Right? What what's their financial background? Not, like, saying, can you tell me what a stock or bond is? That's irrelevant. Right? It's it's me getting a grasp for how are you gonna act and how are you gonna make decisions around money ultimately. Right? Because to your point, I can't ask them, hey. Have you thought about retirement? No.
Ben Hoeger [:I'm I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna eat this afternoon. Right? Or or how I'm gonna
Carol Ventresca [:What my career's gonna be. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:How I'm
Ben Hoeger [:gonna put gas in my Carol whatever it might be. You know, their their line of sight is so much shorter at that point of their life. And so, again, this is where we would come back to understanding what drives them about money. Right? What what's important to you about money? And here's where sometimes you'll you'll you'll get some of this info of I saw my parents struggle or I I, you know, I saw someone do really, really well and and gosh, that that looks easy. It's like, okay. So depending on I saw a parent struggle, Maybe that will create an environment that they're gonna work really hard because money is security to them, and they saw someone not have security. Other folks where they feel like they saw as if money was easy and it was just spent, we got a different conversation on our hands. So me understanding some of that background starts to really set the stage for how are we gonna how are we gonna talk moving forward with this person and start to understand this concept of what is money to them.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? What is money to them? And ultimately, I think a lot of people, you know, from from all the conversations I've had over time is, you know, money is I think a lot of people are are wrapping their mind around money is not gonna give you happiness, but it can avoid pain. Right? And and I think that's where this, you know, this, idea that you wanna avoid loss, you wanna avoid pain, That's what financial resources are for a lot of people. And so, you know, the sooner you establish that in someone's mind, that's gonna move them towards this idea that, look, I I gotta do something. Do do I know that this is going towards retirement someday or maybe it's a house down payment? I I'm not exactly sure what that looks like. It's too far away. That vision is way too cloudy. And, you know, oftentimes, when we first start saving, we talk about this is, you know, this is a funnel. And at the top of the funnel, your idea of what you're doing is very wide.
Ben Hoeger [:But as you move closer and closer towards that timeline or that goal, that vision starts to crystallize Way you're aiming for, what your purpose and goals are, starts to get so much more clear and we get far more detailed. At this point, we're just saying let's move ourselves towards some safety and security and start doing some things early on because as you said, you know, the idea of compound interest is everybody's heard us say it's wonder of the world. Right? And you can have compound interest working for you or against you.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. Right?
Ben Hoeger [:Right. And so we're we're just trying to help people, you know, at that stage of their life put themselves in a position that, they're they're not gonna have to do the heavy lifting when they're 45 or 50, and they're trying to get kids out of the house and into college. And all of a sudden, you panic and say, oh, shoot. I need to make up for the fact that I didn't start until I was 30. Right? And and here's where I I would say that as generations change and evolve, right, as generations change and evolve, money is kind of this taboo idea. A lot of families won't talk about it, but it's starting to become more acceptable to talk about. You know, we try to host what we Carol, family meetings amongst families. If we work with mom and dad, we wanna pull in the kids, not to, you know, roll the carpet out and say, let's Looking what all mom and dad have.
Ben Hoeger [:But let's talk about concepts. Right? Let's start to educate, right, around what did mom and dad go through. You might see mom and dad now and say, wow. You all are very, very successful. Do you know where mom and dad came from? Do you know some of the tougher days? Right? Right. And so so the more you can talk about this, it starts to create some really good behaviors. And and I think that's where ultimately you you work through that, create those good behaviors, and then you start to build the processes. I'm a huge fan of automation.
Ben Hoeger [:If you if you take the the necessity of making a decision out of the Way. Right? Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Ben Hoeger [:You just put it in place and let it go. Right? You take that necessity of you having to take action to to achieve a savings, you're gonna put yourself in such a good position over time.
Carol Ventresca [:The absolute value of a 401 k or for me it was 357bs. It automatically came out of your income before you got your check. You didn't even think about it and it and it could stay there. You know, I Way to ask one additional piece on this and and, especially with young people. It's really hard to get their attention.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:With my young female cousins, Brett and I were talking about Susie Ormond. I always look watch Jean Chatzky. Just getting them to see there are women who are playing a huge role in people's successful financial status. So I, if nothing else, I'm sending them information about about things that those women are suggesting. One of the things that, some of them have, luckily not all of them have, is student debt.
Ben Hoeger [:Yep.
Carol Ventresca [:How do you get a young person on a plan when all they can think of is paying their their rent and student debt and hopefully have enough money to eat?
Ben Hoeger [:Right.
Carol Ventresca [:And that's and gas in their car.
Ben Hoeger [:Yep. Absolutely. And and so, you know, here's another plug for where we wanna open up this discussion. Again, to relate back to what we do every day, just had this discussion earlier today as well around this idea of let's let's pull your son into the conversation of trying to get into college. Because if we're if we are gonna take on debt, let's help let's help him understand what's happening. Right? Let's not just have mom or dad sign them up for this debt or, you know, gosh, if even if mom and dad take on the debt to get him through college, let's understand what the purpose is behind this this financing and what what does it mean to you when that day comes. And I think ultimately that that's gonna pivot to when they walk out of school and now they have this liability that they gotta start chopping away at. At least, hopefully, they can come out of that and not feel any kind of resentment.
Ben Hoeger [:I've had that conversation with folks. You know, they are adamant about I will do anything. I am paying for my son or daughter's education before I retire all day long. Right? That is their number one priority. And again, we peel back that layer and Way, help me understand why. Like, what's going on? I'm not here to challenge you. Just help me understand why. There's an element of resentment where they went through school.
Ben Hoeger [:They didn't understand that everything that they're getting themselves into, they walked Our, and now they have this big liability, and they and they just say, I I'm not doing that. I'm not repeating that. And here's where I could take a step back and say, we all gotta understand. We are about 1 generation into this idea of finances being more of our responsibility as as savers and retirees, you gotta think back a generation or so. What did most people have? They had a pension and they had Social Security. Maybe had a little bit of savings, but that pension and Social Security carried them the bulk of the way.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. And health care was not the issue that it is today.
Ben Hoeger [:You got it. So much has changed and evolved that really this idea that we are responsible for our own retirement when you you state that, that the stat early on in the conversation, Brett, why it's not shocking to me is because people are still trying to evolve to this idea that this is my responsibility. This is not my employer's responsibility to get me towards retirement. Obviously, they're trying to set up vehicles that you can do it, but it's still your decision. Right? And I think that's where, you know, the power of having, some some coaches in in your life, whether it be advisors, whatever it is, but steering you towards the idea of starting these good behaviors early. Right? It's so much easier to start that automatic savings when you get your first job. Right? Even though it might be a little painful, but, you know, if it's $10 a paycheck, do it. Because now you've started that behavior.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? And I tell everyone one of the greatest things that's a part of any kind of retirement savings or different vehicles. I mean, with banking, there's so many automations you can do, in technology these days. You can even automatically increase that savings over time. So as you gradually make more money, you can automate the idea of gradually saving more. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:That that reminds me of the first, I I won't call him a financial planner. He was with one of the major companies when, IRAs first came out.
Ben Hoeger [:Oh, sure.
Carol Ventresca [:And having worked at Ohio State, you know, we had there were limited number of groups that we could work with. So I worked with with this gentleman. He knew when I was scheduled to get a pay increase every year.
Ben Hoeger [:Oh, yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:And he would he would call and he'd make an appointment and he'd look at me and he goes, how much is your pay increase? And I tell him and he goes, how much do you really need? And let's put the rest of it into your IRA. So it just kept giving me the opportunity to build up how much I was putting in. I was contributing to myself. Right. But he's like, you don't you have been using that money. You don't need it. You know? And I'm like, okay. Okay.
Ben Hoeger [:And and that's and that's the reality of it. You know?
Carol Ventresca [:It really is.
Ben Hoeger [:All we're here to do, right, as an adviser, wealth manager, whatever you wanna call yourself, all we're here to do is try to create good behaviors that we've seen the data. We've seen the statistics that it shows. If you do these things consistently and you try to tune out a lot of the other noise that we think is important, like watching CNBC or whatever it might be, we think that stuff's important. That stuff's not that important. We we gotta do the the good work every Way, just Looking 1 brick at a time. It's slow. It's boring. It's not it's not, you know, some exciting new investment.
Ben Hoeger [:It's slow and Looking, but you put your head down and you do that. You wake up in however many years, you know, wow. Yeah. I've done it. I've done it.
Carol Ventresca [:I liked your point about the fact that this is really the first generation where it is less of an employer based notion of retirement, than and, the ability to retire than what we had in the past. When you think about it, I worked I worked at the university 30 years and ended up with a pension. There are so few people today who can do that, even working in public sector. There are different things that that people are having to do. I went to a financial planning workshop yesterday and there were probably 15, 18 people in the room and there were only 3 of us that had a pension. So that really not only are pensions not opportunities that people have, but when you think about it, employers change more now. It used to be where even if you were in private industry, you worked for that employer 20, 25, 30 years and now people are popping every couple of years they're changing to a different employer. So those savings vehicles need to be flexible and transferable.
Ben Hoeger [:Oh, absolutely. And the other thing that we saw post, post COVID, we saw the number of folks registering for, you know, a tax ID or an LLC with the state absolutely skyrocketed post COVID. Right? Because if if if you just had your life turned upside down because you lost your job or whatever and it was completely out of your control, I think a lot of people looked at themselves and said, well, now I'm gonna take this into control myself. But what that does is it puts another layer of pressure on preparing for retirement because now the employer is not even giving you some kind of structure Mhmm. To make the decision to opt into. Now you have to even decide on what's that structure look like. Right? And so it's a whole another layer of complexity in the in this kind of gig economy. I mean, it's it's incredible how, you know, you you can kinda create your life the way you wanna create it.
Ben Hoeger [:If you wanna go out and pursue something, the opportunities are there if you wanna do it. But it does put extra pressure around your health care, your retirement savings, all these other things that come along with it that, again, we're here to help people with, but it's not the fun part to talk about. The fun part is what you just invented or you're gonna try to go and sell or whatever on on this new business venture that you're coming up with. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. There there's gonna be some costs that should be included in a financial plan, but often are over overbooked. What have you noticed is the most difficult for your clients to include? And we're we're talking costs of of, you know, moving, like you mentioned. Somebody wanted to go to North Carol. So, you know, have to put that in mind. We all have to be con which is and we ought to be concerned about health, but we that's we don't even have a crystal ball for that. We have no idea what we're gonna be afflicted with, if anything, after we retire. How do you address those issues?
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. I here's here's the reality. Again, it goes back to a conversation we had earlier in in here, has to be flexible. Right? Everything about your plan has to be flexible. You know, my idea is is that I wanna take many detours. I don't wanna fall off the cliff. Right? If we have to take many detours along our our path of retirement or life, I I can deal with that. We can talk through that stuff.
Ben Hoeger [:What we don't wanna have to do is completely do a 180 and head back the other direction. Right? And so we we assume that, again, you know, let's say an average retirement being almost 30 some years now. Again, we said earlier, who who who has laid out their plan and said, yep. Bowed it perfect. You know? I
Carol Ventresca [:If only. Right?
Ben Hoeger [:I I I I tell the story all the time of my wife and I. We have 3 kids within 14 months of each other, and we we are hoping for 1. I didn't think I was gonna get 3 within 14 months. Right? But you roll with the punches, and you figure out how to evolve your family to deal with this new circumstance. Right? And that's what again, that's what we're here to do and help people with every day. But the big ones, I I think a lot of it is around medical. You know, some things that it it hits people out as, you know, out of nowhere. And we try to plan for as much as we can, and we understand we're not gonna plan for everything.
Ben Hoeger [:But it's simple things like, you know, you're retired and you're on Medicare. You don't really have dental coverage. Have you ever paid for a root canal in cash? Oh. That's not a cheap expense.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Ben Hoeger [:I've I've had countless retirees come in. Even though we try to talk through everything. Countless retirees come in and they instantly a a dental bill on the on the desk and say, how are we gonna take care of this? Mhmm. Right? And, it's it's shockers like that. But, you know, the other things, again, that we're here to chat through with people, and this is kind of that that I that idea of working with someone that can help you pinpoint the areas where you might have blinders. Right? Everybody wants to think like, hey. I'm about to retire. I wanna get rid of all my major expenses.
Ben Hoeger [:I wanna get my house paid off, assuming that and that's this assumption that you're never gonna move again. Right? The reality is Way Brett talking at the outset of this conversation. People wanna put themselves in a position they can age in place. Right? And and the chances are, are you gonna be in that final home by the time you retire at, you know, 60, 65, 70? Not a lot of people are. There's a lot of people that they they don't wanna move to that, you know, more retirement based home where their lawn is cut and snow is shoveled and all that stuff.
Brett Johnson [:A lot
Ben Hoeger [:of people aren't there by the time they retire. So there's a transition when you're when you're in, when you're in retirement. And it's you know, let's even assume that you have enough money there to to pay cash for the home, but I tell you what, I I don't know too many 60, 7 year olds. They're picking up washer and dryers and moving themselves in retirement. So now Yeah. You got these other expenses, ancillary expenses that come along with Looking, some outside expenses around, medical care. Again, a common one that I hear from folks is, I think I bought my last car. You're gonna live for 30 years in retirement.
Ben Hoeger [:That is not your last car. I guarantee you that's not
Brett Johnson [:your last
Carol Ventresca [:I was saying the same thing. Like, what's my last car gonna be? But, you know, one of the things I I sort of chuckle Brett was saying earlier, people don't talk about finances. You don't tell people what you what you have or what type of accounts you have. One of the big questions that everybody is talking about in my cohort are taxes, Not the regular how much am I paying from my income, but when we get to the point of where we have to take money from different accounts, how do you structure that so you pay the least amount of taxes? Some of that has to be structured way ahead of time, you know, Roth IRAs as compared to regular IRAs, that kind of thing. So you're not getting killed in taxes because everyone assumed, well, when you retire your your income goes down. Well, it may not.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. Absolutely. It might not. Especially if if you know if you follow that traditional track of I had a corporate Johnson I saved him my 401 k every year and that was the bulk of all my savings. All you've done is defer that taxable income into the future, and now you got this giant account that's all taxable to you. Right? And so And forced
Carol Ventresca [:to have to take part of it.
Ben Hoeger [:And forced to take part of it. And then
Brett Johnson [:start to embrace the RMDs. Required minimum distributions. You know, that's your Brett friend all of a sudden or your worst friend. Yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:And that that's you know, that's under the assumption that you didn't you know, you don't need all that RMD to begin with. Right? And so, you know, everybody in our industry, we we preach this idea of diversification around your investments. You know, my my other partner, Dominic, and I on the planning side, we preach the idea of diversification on taxes. Right? Because we wanna have different buckets of money. If you wanna pay cash for that Carol, you gotta repair, you know, a roof or replace your roof. These aren't cheap things in retirement. And we gotta remember that there's many domino effects in our taxability of our assets in retirement. It's not just about the taxes paid, but if you start to show too much taxable income via withdrawals because you try to pay cash for a car, repair a roof, whatever it is, you gotta pull it out from a taxable account.
Ben Hoeger [:Well, now you could push yourself into a higher Medicare
Carol Ventresca [:bracket
Ben Hoeger [:where you're paying higher premiums because you had you showed too much income.
Carol Ventresca [:I've done that. Right? The IRMAA IRMAA IRMAA penalties.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? You got it. You're on it. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:Yep. It's sounds like that was an unfortunate conversation. Sorry to
Carol Ventresca [:bring up with that subject. What's what's always really grading is, you know, you end up with Irma because you've got, like $50 over the limit.
Ben Hoeger [:Yes. And that and that's an unforgiving one.
Carol Ventresca [:Right? Exactly.
Ben Hoeger [:Our our Our taxes are are progressive. So if you barely touch into the the next tax bracket, it's not that big of a deal. IRMAA brackets are.
Carol Ventresca [:Oh, yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:If you're a dollar over, you're a dollar
Carol Ventresca [:over. Right. So, you know, one of the things, that I learned in this, workshop that I went to the other day was, in 2026, the structure of our tax brackets are going to change. So you've definitely got to come back and talk to us about that, Ben. So we'll we'll keep that on our agenda. Things to deal with. Yes. There's a
Ben Hoeger [:lot coming.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah. We're Way are really gonna get, we're gonna get hit with that. So, Way, in terms of 2024, we're well into 2024 at this point in time. What should be watching what should be we watching what should we be watching for and planning at this time of the year? As you mentioned, it's an election year. Things are going to get a little squirrelly. If we realize that there are problems with our plan that we've created, how do we make changes without overcorrecting?
Ben Hoeger [:Yep. So so a couple of things there that I'd start with. You know, we were just talking about taxes. You know, it's April 11th as we're sitting here. We we got tax day coming up here in a few days. Mhmm. I I think this is a Brett reminder to say we can't ignore what's going on with our taxes. Right? Even if we're still in that accumulation mode.
Ben Hoeger [:Obviously, if you're in retirement, we gotta sure we're paying attention to that. How are we pulling from different buckets? How are we managing our tax brackets wisely? Right? Some some folks will go into retirement if they have this non taxable type bucket. Let's just say cash in the bank account. They want to immediately say, well, I'm just gonna live off of that and pay no taxes. Again, it's this idea of I don't want to pay taxes. Well, we're we're wasting some opportunities to use up our lowest tax brackets that today are like 10 12%. Why would we not maximize that opportunity when you were probably deferring that income out of your paycheck when you're in the 22 or 24 or even higher tax bracket?
Carol Ventresca [:Mhmm.
Ben Hoeger [:That is an absolute win whenever people ask me, like, what is kind of the purpose of the, you know, the tax pressure of 401 k is to get some kind of arbitrage or Way of I saved that money when I was paying 22, 24 or higher percent in taxes, and I'm gonna hopefully take it out when I'm in a lower tax bracket, but that takes some management. Right? And so what we're doing with with, families we work with is we're always asking to review tax returns and looking through year by year. What has changed? What's evolved? Right? Has anything come up that we need to adjust in our withdrawal strategy? Or if you're saving money, are we saving the right places? You know, again, everybody's natural inclination is I wanna lower my tax bill. So I'm gonna save money into my 401 k or if I'm if I'm running my own business into a SEP IRA or some structure like that, I'm gonna save it in there and try to lower my tax bill. Well, if you're only in the maybe 15, 16 percent effective tax rate, do you really Way to do that? Is that the right idea for you today? Or should we be thinking long term like you brought up earlier, Carol? Maybe we're better off putting money in that Roth bucket and saying, I'd rather pay the tax bill today while I'm working and know that when I'm in retirement, now I got this bucket of money over here that's completely tax free. Right? So it's it's not always that idea of immediate gratification. Right? And Way talk a lot about that even for folks as they transition to retirement. We'll talk about an idea of something called Roth conversions.
Ben Hoeger [:Right? So you have all these dollars that were built up pretax, and then you got this window of time before let's Way, if you retired in your early to mid sixties, you got a window of time, and it keeps getting pushed out out of 73, when you have to start taking those required minimum distributions. So you got a window of time where your your taxes are completely in your hand as far as how much income you're gonna realize. So So if we can manage your brackets and start doing conversions and keep pushing more money into that Roth IRA in those early retirement years, those are huge wins. Right? Those are huge wins. So I would say at this point in 2024, that is, you know, front of mind for us and our team is making sure we're talking to people about their taxes. Did you have a good tax outcome, bad tax outcome? Did we owe more? Did you get put on quarterly taxes because you're way under withheld if you own a business or something like that? Mhmm. We gotta think through these things and make sure we're preparing for them. Right? It's all preparation and having that plan.
Ben Hoeger [:The point of this whole conversation today. Right? There's a and this has been around for a long time, but where it stuck out to me, we had a family gentleman, a longtime family we've worked with. He passed away, and his daughter did a tremendous reading. And she said, dad always preached the idea of the 6 p's. Proper prior planning prevents pain and panic. Right?
Carol Ventresca [:Brett. I like that.
Ben Hoeger [:And so, you know, we we we think about that all the time. If if we're prepared for these things, right, it doesn't feel like as big of a hit out of left field. If we know these things are coming, we've planned for them, we understand this is something we gotta deal with, and then we can be ready for it. The other thing I would touch on at this point in 2024, because I do not think it's at all too early because this stuff takes time. We we, you alluded to this, Carol. We got some changes coming up here at the end of 2025. So all the all the tax laws that were changed a few years ago, tax brackets, estate tax, multiple things are set to sunset the end of 2025. So effectively Way that means is if congress does nothing, they revert back to where they were.
Ben Hoeger [:That means that our current estate tax exemption for for wealthy families Brett cut in half. Right now, we can shelter about 22,000,000 or so. That's gonna get cut in half almost down to about 7,000,000 per person in a spouse situation. So you know those kind of things, that can have a drastic change in an outcome for a Carol. And to start planning on this idea of Way does my estate look like? How am I moving dollars around? Am I starting to do gifting to charities, large charitable donations, you know, gifting to family members, you know, getting money out of my estate if that's something that makes sense for your Carol. That takes time. And knowing that, you know, this is gonna come up the end of 2025, all I can say is I'd hate to be an attorney come probably October, September, October 25 because everybody's gonna wanna talk to him and I guarantee you it's gonna be hard to get in front of them.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Individuals need to work with professionals for something so important as this. You know, along with the financial plan, there are some other legal documents that an individual should consider like will, estate, power of attorney, health Our of attorney, lots of different things. They meet Way need not only a financial planner, but a lawyer, may a tax accountant professional. How can an individual find professionals in those areas and determine the qualifications are gonna meet their needs?
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. Great great question. So a couple of things that our team always, always does is if if a family comes to us and they already have those professionals in their life. Right? We immediately wanna insert ourselves into that relationship, and we often look at ourselves as kind of the quarterback for that. Because though the attorney, the CPA, they tend to be a little bit, transactional is not the right word, but, you're gonna see them only as at certain life events. Right? They're not gonna talk to you quite as much as your financial advisor if you're working with an advisor. So we see our job as Way are here to identify when to pull those folks in. Right? We're not the professionals.
Ben Hoeger [:We're not the experts. We rely on those experts heavily every day. Right? And so we identify when something come up has come up and we gotta pull that person in. So one of the first things we do is if if you are already come with those professionals in your life is we wanna identify that. We wanna introduce ourselves to them and become a part of that. And, obviously, if we have concerns about the work that's being done there or the quality, it's our job to speak up. Right? And so one is if you're already coming with with that in your life, we wanna we wanna incorporate ourselves in that. And I think that's very important with any adviser relationship.
Ben Hoeger [:The other thing is is if you're working with an adviser and you don't have that, obviously, that's the other part. We're saying, hey. We need to work on building out an estate plan. We see some complex stuff going on in your taxes that we need to involve a CPA. Way we a lot of attorneys and CPAs, and we're gonna identify the ones that we think do an exceptional job. Right? And so we do our due diligence, find those folks, and we kinda have a deep bench of these folks that we can we can rely on. And so we'll pull them into their life and say, Looking. I think this could be a great fit, and then, you know, look to look to explore that with them.
Ben Hoeger [:The last one that, you know, is obvious, but I it can't be ignored is just asking around your friends, family, and colleagues. Right? Because a lot of a lot of times, we will be introduced to the folks that we now use on a regular basis, CPAs and attorneys, via the families we work with. Because they'll say, oh, my my neighbor said they work with this person. Great. Let's set up a time to meet with them, and I'm gonna be there with you. So it's not just you trying to vet this person and see will they do a good job for you. You're gonna have another set of eyes that I I've sat through countless meetings with attorneys and CPAs, and and I I can kinda I can get a quick feel for, are they gonna help us or not? Right.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. You you really do have to vet those individuals closely. Yep. Not just because you're literally handing them your life and all of the information about you, which is a scary thing, but also just that you're comfortable working with them and comfortable asking the questions you need to ask.
Ben Hoeger [:That that's huge right there, Carol. And and, you know, we we talk about this a lot when folks say, you know, how do you do you have any advice for finding an advisor? And I tell a lot of people, at the end of the day, there's just a ton of great folks out there. Right? I I think our team is exceptional, but there's a ton of great teams out there. The reality is is you gotta find someone you're comfortable with because, hopefully, this is a very long relationship and a great partnership, that you can build a really close, almost friendship with. And you're not gonna do that if it just feels like, oh, he called me for my annual meeting again. I don't know. Gosh. This guy again? Yeah.
Ben Hoeger [:You know? No. You don't you don't wanna feel that way. And if you start to feel that way, you know that you're going down the wrong road. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. Oh gosh, Ben. There's so much to talk about and so many things that we could we could sit here and go on forever. This has really, really been a valuable discussion and we hope that all of our our listeners today have gotten even one little kernel of advice and information from you. We always ask our guests for any last words of wisdom that they would like to add. Do you have any suggestions or resources or again, last words of wisdom for our audience?
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. So the the main thing I would I would say, is actually my partner, Dominic, I we were traveling yesterday, and we were talking about this idea. Right? Because it it's there's so much that you I I could spend a whole topic just talking about just this. Right? The there's different ideas. And, so the one that I I think is really important is just that general advice of just never stop learning and understanding that in in finances, you know, you are your own best advocate. Nobody's going to care more about your finances than you. Right? I mean, we love the families that we work with. We're so blessed to work with such great people.
Ben Hoeger [:They're so respective of us, our families. They care about us and our families, but the reality is is no one's gonna care about your finances more than you. And so the more that you can educate yourself and never feel as if there's bad questions. Right? Jeff and I, early on in our partnership, we we always try to position ourselves to saying, hey. We're not here to dictate how to handle your finances. We're here to help you educate yourself so you can make the best decisions for yourself ultimately. Right? That's what we see our role is. We're just educators.
Ben Hoeger [:We're we're not gonna be the end all be all experts on everything, but we're just educators to ultimately put you in a position that you're confident in the decisions you're making. And it comes back to that basic, question of am I gonna be okay? You should always be able to answer that question confidently.
Carol Ventresca [:That's when you know that you're on the right in the right vision of your plan when you feel are feeling comfortable. And you do that by becoming confident in the information. As I mentioned, I went to a workshop yesterday, there wasn't a lot new but there were a few little ideas, like the notion of I didn't realize that the tax rates were going to go up in a couple of years and I need to think about that. There's always more information out there and taking advantage of that.
Ben Hoeger [:Yeah. I I spend a a count just countless hours reading all the time. And, you know, if there's after doing this for 20 some years and reading nonstop, I'm still learning something every day. Right? And I I think that says a lot to, you know, what what folks should think about. They don't need to become experts. They, you know, hopefully, you're partnering with someone that can help you through that. Mhmm. But being educated so you can be part of the process and you're not completely passive in it, I think is important.
Carol Ventresca [:Listeners, we always talk about having resources available for you and we will do that again. Ben's going to help us put a few ideas together and just as an example, the workshop I went to yesterday was a free opportunity at my local library. There's lots of information out there that you can easily grab and, so we will provide that information in our show notes.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. Well, many thanks to our expert, Ben Hoeger, director for Private Wealth Management, Robert W Baird and Company for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us. And don't forget to check out our show notes on the website for contact information and as we mentioned the resources that we've discussed today. You can find the information at www.LookingForwardOurWay.com we're looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.
