Join Dr. Jim and Michael Ben-David, superintendent of Tenafly Public Schools, as they unpack the journey from good to great in K-12 education through systematized approaches. Discover how a focus on organizational clarity, role definition, and accountability can transform educational outcomes. With insights drawn from Michael's transition from law to education, the discussion delves into managing technology spend, aligning district priorities, and fostering an environment of engagement and respect to drive student achievement. Listen to learn how to craft high-performing educational systems.
Key Takeaways:
Systems and processes are essential for educational success, helping streamline operations and reduce redundancies.
A district's mission should be plainly articulated, emphasizing student growth and achievement as primary objectives.
Transformational change in schools involves meticulous planning, clarity in roles, and a relentless focus on both people and programs.
Clear organizational structures and accountability frameworks foster efficiency and transparency, crucial for meeting community expectations.
Chapters:
0:00
Unlocking School Potential Through Systematized Processes
2:21
From Law to Education: A Journey of Passion and Problem Solving
8:11
Challenges and Strategies in Education Leadership and Resource Management
13:20
Implementing Effective Technology Governance in School Districts
18:16
Establishing Organizational Clarity and Accountability in Education
20:34
Key Elements for Improving Student Growth and Achievement
22:54
Strategies for Addressing Funding Challenges in School Districts
26:44
Prioritizing Respect Over Being Liked in Educational Leadership
28:42
Optimizing Education Budgets Through Personnel and Technology Analysis
31:36
Building Clear Systems for Effective School District Governance
Music Credit: Shake it Up - Fesliyanstudios.com - David Renda
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Transcripts
Dr. Jim: [:
That systematized approach and the focus on process is often the missing piece of the puzzle when it comes to getting to the next level as an organization. It's no different in the K through 12 space. Today's conversation is all about getting to the next level as a K through 12 district and how defined processes can help unlock your potential.
om Manhattan in Northern New [:
During his more than 24 years in education, Michael has served as a teacher, coach, principal, director, assistant superintendent, and superintendent. His instructional and building level experiences span elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as both urban, suburban, wealthy, and impoverished districts.
Prior to entering education, Michael spent a brief period as an attorney and clerk in the United States federal courts, and as a litigation associate at one of New Jersey's largest law firms. He's a graduate of Rutgers. He's got his J. D. from Seton Hall, and he's got his Master's of Education from the College of St.
Elizabeth. Michael, welcome to the show.
Michael Ben-David: Great to be here.
Dr. Jim: Yeah, I'm I'm pumped to have you on. And I think one of the unique aspects of this conversation is going to be, is going to touch on some of that transitional experience from going from the world of law into the world of education. And we're going to get into some of that process language or process conversation that we talked about that takes districts to the next level.
that, I think it's going to [:
Michael Ben-David: My journey to education probably began very early on. I was. Even when I was in high school, I was able to do a I was very fortunate to go to a high school where during your senior year, you got to do an internship, and I think I was the first student to ever volunteer to teach ninth grade ancient medieval history while I was a senior.
So while my classmates were headed out to, to work in various fields. I walked down into the ninth grade classroom and started teaching history. I think the kind of bug was planted early on. I think for me my initial thought was perhaps that I would teach at the grad, the college or graduate school level.
After law school or [:
But I wanted to do a few years, in the private sector just to see what that, was like. And then eventually walked in as a second year associate and said, I'm leaving. And and that was 26 years ago. So here we are today.
Dr. Jim: Something that you said that caught my attention. And it seemed like your work at the Center for Social Justice had a pretty big impact on you. What was it about working there that flipped the switch for you?
you obviously a little more [:
So when you're, when you do that and you kinda, you realize that, waking up every day and going to work is. is more of a passion than it is a job. You just say, this, I probably need to follow that, for a little longer. So that was my, my tilt and why why, it was so important for me to continue along that educational path.
Dr. Jim: There's another aspect of of your career trajectory that share, that you shared that caught my attention. And that was, You ended up leaving the law in the private sector after a few years And i'm thinking about that. i'm thinking about it because you're already pretty pot committed If you decide to go and become an attorney you have all of that investment that goes into law school.
ad to switch gears. That's a [:
Michael Ben-David: Yeah it wasn't just the glances. It was also when you tell people you're taking a 66 percent reduction in your salary that's another, you get more than just a glance, more than a glance,. I don't know what the statistics are today, but, the number of people graduate from law school that don't practice law is extremely high.
However, what gets lost in that is, is also the positive, which is, law school isn't just about training you to be a lawyer. It's training you how to approach problem solving. Like at the end of the day, it's a problem solving methodology. And for those that appreciate that and have gone through that you take that with you in whatever you're doing.
developing a mindset and an [:
How do I create a better wheel? How do I figure out what's happening? And how do I, come up with remedies that, that makes sense for people? So in that sense I've never felt like I've left. law. I just applied it in different places.
Dr. Jim: It's really interesting how you described your experience in Being trained as an attorney how that shaped how you think?
And I relate that back to my experience as an undergrad I was a pre law minor and I did mock trial and it had a huge impact in Terms of how I actually process information and break things down into consumable bite sized Legos, as I call it, to help attack a particular problem. So that's really interesting that you mentioned that switching gears a little bit, when you made that transition from law to education, that had to be a pretty tough transition just from.
The [:
Michael Ben-David: From a day to day standpoint, just let's just call like the social emotional aspect of what you do every day. I think that was easy, right? Working with kids discussing issues that are of interest to you, coaching. All these things that you were passionate about and you get to do on a daily basis, that's a phenomenal transition.
That's like a step up. You're not, there's people, you're working in a law firm and an office and you have a nice office and you have a nice window, but you're interacting with nobody. Or very few, very little, there's no feedback, right? A bank doesn't tell you great job every day, right?
ssues of importance that are [:
If you want to do it well, it's incredibly hard. And because the preparation that you need to put in before the teaching begins is really where. Where battles are won and lost, right? How do, how am I going to make this lesson or this topic of interest to kids today? How am I going to engage them?
Because at the end of the day, we're in a value add. profession, right? My job, whether I'm a teacher, a coach, building principal or a superintendent, the mission is the same. How do I improve student growth and student achievement?
t's about having, a plan and [:
So again, there's a nice transition between those two professions.
Dr. Jim: Switching gears a little bit. I want to get line of sight into what you experienced when you took over Tenafly as a district. I mentioned in the beginning of the show that systems equal success, and we're going to have a process driven conversation. But before we dive into that, I think it's important for us to understand the state the district was in when you joined.
So share with us a little bit more about that.
Michael Ben-David: Yeah. So It's a tremendous place. As you mentioned earlier we're about 15 minutes outside of Manhattan, located in Bergen County, which is in Northern New Jersey. Really a suburb of Manhattan. The, there, the composition of Tenafly tends to be extremely, the families are extremely smart, educated and education is a high priority for them and their families, right?
to make sure that their kids [:
What's been particularly challenging in New Jersey, probably across the United States, is, how do you marry the human resource needs, right? The people. You're programming the, the facilities with a challenging, let's just say financial backdrop and environment, right?
Which again is, New Jersey has its own. Dynamic in that sense, but generally it's how do you grow and maintain these programs against a very, against that sort of backdrop, moving forward?
Dr. Jim: It's interesting that you describe some of the personnel challenges or human resources challenges that might exist in a district. But when I think about what you said. You're describing a district that has massive commitment from the community and the parents for academic success.
So I would think [:
Michael Ben-David: So I think just generally speaking, and it doesn't matter where you are, our pride, the most important job or my most important job is. Attracting, developing, and retaining excellent educators, right? And not unlike any other industry, right? You want the best and the brightest. And it's a competitive environment, right?
We have, just in Bergen County alone, which is northern, in northern New Jersey, there's 60 plus districts in one county. They're all competing for talent, Ed, Manhattan, Westchester, Long Island, Connecticut, Central South Jersey. Everyone's fighting for the best people, the most engaging educators.
we fund schools, which is a [:
So your revenue increases north or south of 2 percent a year, but salaries, facilities costs, programmatic loss, everything else increase at a rate greater than 2%. So it's, so the challenge is how do you continue to be competitive? How do you continue to develop and retract and retain the best against that backdrop?
That that's the, that's the conundrum everyone faces in these jobs. And those that can build a better wheel, more efficient that, have better programs and a better environment to work. That means salaries, wages, conditions, you name it, are going to succeed.
And those that get over their skis. They're going to have a problem.
way for to success. And that [:
What did you uncover in terms of Areas of priority that you needed to focus on what was your process for discovery on that?
Michael Ben-David: I'm a huge believer in systems, right? You have to have systems that you that you believe in and you develop that ensure a level of articulation and consistency and predictability on the part of the district. So for example, let's just use one administratively, right? We did not have, from a supervision of instruction standpoint, we did not have a K 12.
challenged than if you had a [:
How are those programs aligned? Do they overlap? Are they redundant? What's the audit mechanism on these programs? Who's ensuring that people are using them and there's a value add proposition on those? These are all things that you've got to build into a system if you want it to operate effectively. Just for example, when we did an audit of our educational software year one, we found redundancies like to the tune of about 150, 000 worth of software, right?
, but we just hadn't had the [:
Dr. Jim: So I want to dig into that technology component a little bit. So you describe Sort of the structure of the district as a challenge and then you have facilities and technology challenges as well and that's all nested under an alignment challenge that exists But I want to zone in on this technology element because it's it's one of those situations that happens in a lot of districts.
So tell us a little bit more about when you look at that technology spend, and I'm assuming there was probably a fair degree of duplication across that. How did that end up happening in the first place? And what did you put into place to make sure that you have some governance in terms of how technology decisions are made?
ecision making approach. The [:
So what we had is, we had decisions been made At the building level and at the, in the classroom level, and people didn't realize that they were using two different software programs to achieve the same outcomes or use the same resources. And the reason it happens is because you don't have. A top, a sort of top level audit mechanism and someone kind of mining what everyone's doing.
When you don't have that K 12 kind of structure and you say how did it get here? The answer is really no one was mining the store, right? And these decisions were being made in vacuums and in pockets all over the place. Great, not terrible in terms of at the individual teacher level and classroom level.
there and they're learning. [:
That's what you, that's what you get when you put in, when you develop a K 12 audit mechanism and you have better articulation and better framework for decision making across a district.
Dr. Jim: Staying on this topic, us a little bit about the structure that you put into place to make sure that you wouldn't have this sort of free for all. Happening within the district. What's the process look like now when it comes to those technology decisions and decisions in general?
Michael Ben-David: I am a huge believer in organizational structure and organizational charts, and that you review those with your administrative team so they understand exactly who's responsible for what, right? Where is accountability? And where is decision?
making rest. It's not always [:
What we were trying to do. So you put in place an organizational structure that is very clear. When I got here, when I arrived here, the organizational structure I would say was extremely messy and there were not clear lines of. Responsibility and accountability. So that was like was step one is just unclogging a whole bunch of arteries that were running all over the place.
nd of the day, a, my promise [:
Grow and achieve at a rather impressive clip, okay against a very competitive environment, right? We want to put our kids in the best position possible to succeed both in college and career, right? Making sure that we are aligned and that we are accountable at all levels. Is of critical importance particularly when you're answering, when you've got to answer questions about why are we performing the way we're performing?
Why are we spending where we're spending? What is the value add? What is, so though, if you don't have a system in place, And you can't answer those questions with clarity and simplicity. You've got a real problem as far as I'm concerned.
defines who does what, when [:
Which is a really good principle when you're Thinking about putting in process into place. You need to have clarity at all of those different levels. One thing that I want to zoom out a little bit. So when we started this part of the conversation, you talked about alignment in terms of how the district is structured.
You talked about technology priorities, facilities, priorities, and you uncovered all of these different priorities that might need to be acted on. Now, when you have multiple big ticket priorities in front of you, how did you Zone in on what was the most critical thing to solve?
Michael Ben-David: I'm going to go back to something I said earlier that kind of we're circling around. I think it's incumbent on superintendents to have a very simple, clear approach to what they're doing. Okay. And. And, it's funny, my team, they'll, they hear me say what I'm about to say to you over and over again.
these districts that are out [:
Mission statements are just vague, open ended statements that mean almost nothing, right? I said, every district has the exact same mission. Improve student growth and student achievement. That's it. That's your mission. Everything else are ornaments. That's the tree. Okay that's what we're in the business of doing.
So how do you do that? The next question you should be asking me is, Mike, how do you do that? How do you improve student growth and student achievement? And in essence, how do you do it better than someone else? What makes you unique? The answer to that question is you need to focus on four Four key parts.
ms, right? What programs are [:
Third, what are your facilities like, right? We know that kids want to learn in great spaces that are safe, comfortable, engaging. The last one, the one that no one wants to talk about, the one that people keep ignoring to their own demise, particularly in New Jersey, is how are you going to fund that?
And how are you going to sustain that? They always, they, everyone like, everyone in education likes to talk about education. The problem is they don't like to talk about how you're going to financially be able to sustain it. So the answer to your question is, where do you? Where do you focus first?
xceeding our revenues. Okay. [:
If we didn't figure out how to operate better period, the end.
Dr. Jim: Whenever organizations say that they have a revenue issue or a funding issue I tend to look sideways at them and wonder, okay, is it really a revenue issue or is there something else behind the scenes that isn't accounted for?
And you we had a conversation just earlier about the level of spend across technology that was happening within your district what i'd like you to do is when we're looking at the funding question and You're guiding other superintendents on hey What are the things that we should be looking at to make sure that we're being good stewards of the resources that we're given?
What were the areas that you looked at? To identify potential areas of waste or duplication that helped solve that funding challenge that you were looking at when you took over.
ichael Ben-David: So I think [:
Every piece of software needs to be accounted. Why are we using it? What are we using it for? Can we find something that's better, right? And cheaper. The same thing goes with your staffing, right? Do you, are you have people? Are you overstaffed? Are you understaffed? Are you, or are you appropriately staffed, but they're just doing the wrong jobs?
From a facility standpoint what is it that I need to fix immediately? What, there's what we liked, what we would like to do and what we need to do. And what we, what we wanna do. And you have to prioritize those things in a really in, in an order. That makes sense.
the at a general, at a high [:
Because I can tell you right now, there's things coming around the corner that we don't see. They're going to cost us more than we're spending right now.
Dr. Jim: Yeah, it's it's the interesting thing about your answer is that I'm I'm a little stuck between two areas that looking at where you're allocating resources on a technology perspective that's super important, but I'm torn between the technology. Argument that you're making and also the people argument because there's two Questions embedded in the people argument that every district should consider are people doing a good job How do you evaluate that and are people doing the right job?
to this conversation in the [:
So I really appreciate you sharing that. I'm thinking through this discussion that we're having, I think one of the things that, that I'm curious about is that you described it as having a maniacal focus across these four areas. When you're having that focus and that line of sight and, I call it like passive detachment to the outcome. When you take that approach and you're pointing out things that could be done better through any number of ways, people are going to have hurt feelings over it because they're going to think you're getting all in their kitchen and taking something away from them. In some cases you are. How did you overcome that resistance?
What was your process to, to smooth that over?
ter experience for students, [:
Because it's very simple. We know that if you're more engaged, you perform better. This is like first principles, right? So at the end of the day. If you're focused on being liked, you've made a mistake. You've just made a mistake right from Jump Street. What you need to, what you need to be is respected and you need to be able to answer questions as to why you're doing what you're doing and how it connects to that overall mission. When you're focused on developing an exceptional district or product, or your focus has to be really a simple adherence to the mission. And explaining to people what you're doing and why you're doing it. Not every, as you said earlier, not everyone's going to agree.
that's what your charge is. [:
Everything else falls by the wayside because at the end of the day, that in our business is the winning and losing, right? That's the scoreboard. I think it's more, I think people that focus on the issue of being liked are making a mistake. What you need to be focused on is being respected.
And and having people at the very least understand, I, we always talk about in this industry, you never want anyone to question your intelligence or your work ethic. They don't have to agree with your decisions, but they can question those 2 things.
Dr. Jim: So far in this conversation we talked about, one major change was what you did from a technology spend perspective. And then we address the questions of is every element of the spend that we're currently spending? Is that justified? Is that the right spend?
And then we also looked [:
Michael Ben-David: Yeah, so I, I think obviously the 1st areas you're going to look at are your less student front facing areas, right? What are, Your administrative team, your administrative responsibilities, the support staff who does what, where do they do it? Do we need that many people doing that job?
ss sizes by level department [:
The nuance of this is are significant. I'm trying not to get too, I don't want to get too granular in this discussion, but there are a hundred holes to look into in terms of how you operate things, right? How many instructional coaches you have versus direct instructional teachers?
At what levels? What are your class size requirements? What are you, what are your support programs? Do you in house or out, or outsource? O. T. P. T. Special certain special services. What programs are you in district versus out district? How does that impact your staffing? What are your transportation costs?
There's a million layers to this and you need to have an understanding and you need to be looking at all of them.
at the personnel hole first, [:
Michael Ben-David: Well, a simple math would tell you that 75 percent of your budget or people Salaries and health benefits. They asked Willie Sutton, the bank robber, why do you rob banks? He said, cause that's where the money is. So in education, the money is the savings and the inefficiencies are always in the same places.
people in healthcare benefits. So you have to, you have to look at all, which isn't to say that's the only place you look, but if you're not looking there, you're talking about deck chairs. Right?
put these things in terms of [:
Tell us a little bit about that.
Michael Ben-David: Yeah. So I think organizationally, what I think is really, we've really benefited from is again, this better alignment has allowed us to be better, way more responsive to parent and community needs way more efficient in our decision making better able to explain to people what we're doing, how we're doing it and why we're doing it.
on multiple levels. I think the speed and clarity of communication has improved. It's always great when you hear families tell you, I'm, I really appreciate the way you're explaining, what, the way you're explaining things so that I can understand them.
akeholder groups isn't about [:
That to me is showing a respect and accountability on the part of leadership to the people that you're working with and working for. So I think that's something that we've been able to really hone in on.
Dr. Jim: I appreciate you sharing that. So I want you to take a look back at this conversation that we've had, and the overall theme that we've been talking about is building systems and processes that help you fine tune your machine. And I want you to think about that, and I want you to speak directly to those other superintendents that might be considering, okay, how do I actually put a defined process in here?
get the ball rolling in this [:
Michael Ben-David: Yeah I think that what I always use, again, I go back to, I go back to that. Philosophy that we talked about earlier, right? What's your what is the mission of your school district one two? How do you accomplish that? What are the areas you focus on and then within each of those areas?
again a granular nuanced analysis of each one that comes from experience by the way that comes from years of experience and gaining insights and knowledge into all these different aspects of What lends itself to increased student engagement, which in turn leads to increased student achievement, right?
It's, you have to be able to focus on that. The other thing I would ask is, Can you explain what you're doing? I, let's go back to the come full circle to the private sector. I remember years ago, a writer saying you should be, if you're going to explain something to them, to someone, you should be able to do it with a crayon.
n and I shouldn't be able to [:
We should be able to answer that question with a crayon, right? Yes, I've thought about it. Here's exactly why. Here's how it connects to other things. Here's how it connects to either people, programs, facilities, or finances. This is why we're doing it in the way we're doing it. This is the result.
These are the results that we see. These are how we kind of audit those results on an annual basis or every other year. Or every couple of years, you should be able to lay that out for people. Some, what do they call it in the, the elevator pitch, right? If I'm going to give you the elevator pitch, why is.
Why are you successful at? I should be able to answer those questions pretty clearly.
Dr. Jim: Great stuff, Michael. If people want to continue the conversation, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?
Michael Ben-David: Email the [:
And that's again, the mission that we have here in Tenafly.
Dr. Jim: Great stuff. Appreciate you hanging out and sharing your insight with us and we'll make sure that we put your info in the show notes so that people can get a hold of you if they want to continue the conversation. When I think about this discussion that we had There's something that you mentioned at the very end of the conversation that I think ties everything together really well.
You should be able to explain what you're doing with a crayon. And the question becomes how do you actually get to that point? And there was something that you mentioned earlier that I think it's worth repeating. In order for you to be able to explain what it is that you do and what you're trying to accomplish with a crayon, you need to be able to establish a clear organizational structure.
lish a clear role structure. [:
My takeaway from this conversation is that if you establish clarity across all of those levels It helps you define what the processes are that need to be fixed and re engineered so that you're operating at high efficiency So I appreciate you sharing that with us And hanging out with us for those of you who've been listening to this conversation We appreciate the time that you spent if you like the discussion Make sure you leave us a review on your favorite podcast player If you haven't already done so make sure you join our k through 12 leadership community and then tune in next time where we'll have another great leader hanging out with us and sharing with us the game changing insights that helped them build a high performance team.
