The AG Show heads to Groundswell as the regenerative farming festival marks its 10th birthday, to find out what's getting farmers talking.

First, we catch up with Groundswell co-founder John Cherry to look back at how the event has grown over the past decade and hear what he's learned from a mob grazing project he's been involved in.

If you're a wheat grower looking to boost margins, don't miss our chat with a farmer who's transformed his business by turning his grain into flour and selling direct to bakeries.

Plus, Charlotte puts her emergency first aid skills to the test in a farm accident scenario, and we get some practical tips on how to better understand what's going on beneath your feet by taking a closer look at your soil.

SOME USEFUL BITS (FROM AHDB & BEYOND)

Groundswell Festival 2027

Agrileader Circle at Groundswell

Milling at Bruern – Bruern Farms

Farmers Aid – from RABI

The soil health scorecard | AHDB

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Well, it's hardly the Hollywood Hills, but it's the rolling hills of Groundswell that you've brought me to. What are we doing here?

Enjoying ourselves. Learning some stuff. Getting you out on farm. That doesn't happen very often now, does it?

No, I think I was at a pig farm about three weeks ago. So, yeah, I am getting my feet dirty.

And in fact, we're going to see you get your feet very dirty, very white, because you're going down into the soil at some point.

I think I was waiting for you to push me in there. I have to say,.

I was very tempted to not help you out, but no, you're going to find out what we got up to at Groundswell in this episode of the Egg Show.

Hello, I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees.

Charlotte Forkes-Rees. The microphone is attached to a fork. So that is the big pun all the through. If you're watching this, I am producer Martin.

Welcome to this episode of the Ag show that we are recording at Groundswell on day one. Shall we kick off with the founder, the guy who organises Groundswell every year? Because this is the 10th anniversary of Groundswell.

You've been speaking to him and very.

Impressively, he is, spoiler alert. The only person that I spoke to today that realised I was holding a fork.

Here's John Cherry.

Massive congratulations. Ten years of Groundswell.

When you started all those years ago, did you think it would end up being as big and as important to the industry as it is now?

No, I thought it'd be a lot bigger by now. Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons we. There's a bloke called no Till Bill from Australia. No Till Bill. And he was. He.

He was over here doing something and I got him around and we were in the pub talking and he's. And with the run up to Cereals and he said, why doesn't Cereals have a no till section? And it was, you know.

And he'd managed to convert most of Western Australia to farm in this no till way. And so I said, I have no idea. And so he said, I'll find out and I'll ring them up now.

And he rang up Cereals and why haven't you got a no till section? And it's kind of just thought, yeah, maybe we can take Cereals on and do a kind of no till version. And it's a completely different baby now.

It's extraordinary. I mean, just how you start when you start things, you don't, you know, we have a baby, you've no idea what they're going to grow into.

So what's your favorite change that's happened from that initial inception, that first year of running to now? What would be your favorite difference?

The food. Really.

I think it is excellent here, I do have to say that. And the entertainment is always very good on Saturday night.

Yeah, yeah. The entertainment is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved the first one. I mean it was a great, it was just a, you know, great gathering of, of enthusiasts.

How many people did you have for that first one, do you know?

400 Odd visitors and bit different now. 50. Yeah, a bit different now. It was, it was lovely and well, you suddenly realized, you know, these are my people.

This is a tribe of people doing, doing things different. It's just so exciting to kind of get them all in one place and,.

And your tribe has definitely grown over the years. It must be lovely looking out and just seeing all these masses of people there. They've all come for the same reason as why you set it up.

Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I hope they're not here to sabotage the movement or they're here for the food. But I know it is, it is lovely.

I mean it's just so exciting because it's, I think agriculture's got the potential to solve nearly all the world's problems and these people know it as well. And there's a, there's a kind of feeling of let's do something about it.

So talk us to your day job then. So if you're not doing things with Groundswell, what is it that you are doing?

Farming.

Talk us through what your setup is here then.

Well, I mean, fun enough. We've just, we've just split the farm up. My brother and I have been farming together 40 odd years. This is now his field and that's my one over there.

But it's like, no, we've got about. I was finding two and a half thousand acres too much to hold in my head.

And then Paul's got kind of ideas about how he wants to, how his interpretation of Regen is. I've got, I'm trying to kind of go organ organic Regen on my side.

So it's going to be a really interesting time, you know, when we can compare our results and hope that yours is better. Yeah, a little bit of competition obviously, but it's a.

But I mean it's, it's because Regen means so many different things to different people and so, you know, we can, we can do some exciting kind of stuff on ours and so yeah, we're, we're still. My son's just come home to help on the farm and we're doing some exciting things on, on our farm.

Just trying not to use any chemicals or fertilizer, which is brilliant this year because everything's so expensive.

But it's just, yeah, it's learning and it's just so nice having so many experts here that kind of, you know, they all come to your farm and you can pick their brains for nothing.

You've got no excuses for not trying all these things. And we just heard you talking, very interesting about mob grazing.

Do you mind just chatting us through some of the results that you found from the work you were doing on this?

I mean it's been a five year ADAS funded project and huge amount of work's gone into looking all the different, you know, we've had some set stock mob and a mob grazing mob. And I love a mob grazing for all sorts of reasons, but mostly because I can see the benefits in my cattle and in the biodiversity.

The more interesting stuff that's going on with all the different plants coming up and all the insects and, and the bird life and the, you know, we've got some more seeds and so the fl, you know, we have lovely charms of goldfinches in the autumn eating the chicory seeds and all this kind of thing.

It's just, it's a joyous thing saying, you know, just takes me much less time with all my animals in one mob than going around trying to find all the different ones when I used to have little mobs of cattle all over but. And I just feel they're happier, more content and. Yeah, so that's why we do it.

So what's next on the horizon for you then?

We're starting something called Grand School because as you say, ground swell is two days a year and people leave all excited about.

And so we want to be able to provide opportunities for people to follow up ideas that they might have had here or talking to people and actually learn about how to do things in a different way or, you know, how to making compost or growing things that they hadn't thought of growing. So we'll be running courses on, on, on all sorts of things for farmers or for students or for school kids.

Or anyone who's interested.

Anyone who's interested. So. Well, it's a yes. Of taking education into the 22nd century.

Yeah, that's scary when you say that.

You've got to look forward and it's. I just think farming has been Taught rather badly, unimaginatively. I had a lovely time at university and I learned nearly nothing of any use.

I mean, it gave me one or two good ideas, but I just think the potential of how we can do things is enormous.

I don't know how much trouble we'd get in. I mean, if we put one on the back. So it's a little bit inconspicuous. What do you reckon might do it at the end and then do a runner?

Rather you than me, Martin. But we did spend a very nice time this morning going round and talking to people, seeing what we could get as a trade for these said stickers.

It was a very lucrative day, wasn't it, Martin?

Absolutely. I've got a bag full of goodies.

For the kids producer Martin. This stand looks like it is crying out for swapsies. So, Hutchinson's. Who are you guys and why are you here at Groundswell?

Hello, we're here at Groundswell. We're trying to promote our from soil to shelf here.

So that's our agri food business services chain, but we've also got our Terramap team, which is really high definition soil mapping.

We've got our Healthy Soils team showing demos of different soil types and different properties, whilst also having our Omnia, which is our digital farm management tool as well.

A bit of everything, then. So right from being straight on farm through to consumer and everything you could want in between.

Absolutely no service left behind.

So what can I get for an Ag show sticker?

Certainly you can have a very good substantial bag.

Perfect for my weekly shop. Thank you very much, Martin. I feel we might need to try and do a swap, see for one of these foam pigs, Pilgrims. Is that possible?

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

I can give you two your girls be very happy. So tell us who you are and why you're here at Groundswell.

I'm Andrew Denny, I'm the grown farms manager and we're here at Groundswell really to sort of just show everyone what we do and try and attract some. Some farmers to come and join us and finish pigs for us.

And I think it's something that's important to think about. Quite often people think pigs, environment, can they be together? Answer is yes, isn't it? Generally, yeah, yeah.

We try our best to try and fit in with everything.

And because we're bringing the muck from the pigs onto the land, we're helping restructure the lands and help, you know, in that regard to really put stuff back into the soil and, you know, save costs on fertiliser and other things that cost a fortune. So, yeah, the two can work really well together.

What can I get for a sticker this time? Oh, and we have a Hannah Clark, but it's not our Hannah Clarke. Hannah Clark from front. What can I get for an ag show sticker?

What really is the star of today is our cornfield annuals. So you'll see them at every corner of our field here. So, yeah, you could have that if you would like. That would be amazing. Thank you.

Do you mind talking us through? Because you have got an amazing stand here. Obviously, you're talking all about how environmental crops can fit within a rotation. Yep, yep.

So we're here. It's actually our ninth year that we've been here. You missed out on the 10 on the 10th year. I know, I know, it's so sad.

But, yeah, so we're basically talking to farmers about different regenerative practices and how they can be more resilient on farm. Amazing. So any top tips? Because from looking around here, we've got sheep, we've got flowers, we've got grasses.

What's a good sort of overall view that you can maybe give us? Well, I would say that obviously it's been a, you know, it's been a difficult season so far, especially with the heat, so.

So the key is that we're really layering different practices and that kind of combination is what will bring resilience. So yesterday SFI opened, so it's important that people are looking at the different funding that's available. Doesn't have to just be public.

Private funding, obviously, is there as well. So, yeah, it's just making sure that people are looking, you know, talking to us, see what opportunities are there, you.

Know, so they can.

They can get this funding. Mark, whilst it's here, this is probably. Probably going to be our best swap of the day. Martin, we're at yo up for doing a Swapsy ag show sticker.

Of course. Why not? Thank you.

Kefir, please. Yeah, thank you. No, this is too many options. Whichever one's the best. Look, a cow with a disco ball. They're happy cows down at yo, eh?

Thank you so much. Have a great day. Delicious.

You forgot to say other dairies are available, but have to say pretty tasty.

Now, my favorite Swapsy of the day very much has to be these little piggies. And it's starting to add to your collection that you have of pigs, pig and poultry. You had the nice little balloon, didn't you?

I did. The non helium filled helium balloon from pig and poultry that the girls took to quite fondly.

They built a little sty for it in the corner of their bedroom. But these two little pigs will last a little bit longer. Interesting that Hannah Clark has made an appearance on the Ag show in this episode.

She's supposed to be on her honeymoon.

I caught up afterwards with Henry Astor to talk all about how he's changed his farming practices.

Really?

What was it that made you decide that that was the route you wanted to take?

Well, exactly.

Now the price of the wheat, I mean, you know, you're selling if it costs you 160 to pound 70 an acre or a ton to produce and you're selling it £160, you know, you're losing money anyway, so.

And if somebody's, if you can put the product through two stones and it comes out the other end, you know, at £1,200 a ton, then it kind of a no brainer, isn't it? You know.

So how did you find the time or the way to move from that? I'm just going to almost be in this stuck in the same mindset of this is what we've done, this is what we've always done, this is what's working.

I've got my farm manager that's doing all this for me. It's still making money to being able to go actually I could be making more. How did you make that sort of jump?

Because I grew up on my farm, but I went away to New York for 15 years. And I think what New York and the experience I had in New York taught me was that it is okay to take risk.

It is really important to think outside the box.

And if they look at a system that is not working, which clearly our farming and agricultural system is not working, okay, then you've got to do something different to survive. And it was really that simple.

So, you know, I was lucky because I had a farm manager who actually understood farming so you could keep that system going even though you're not making money.

And I had the luxury of being able to start the Mill and, you know, grow it while the farm was being taken, the actual farming side, it was being taken care of.

And how did you convince your other half to move from New York to North Cotswold? That might have been a bit of a change of pace, shall we say?

It was quite a change of pace, but I think she knew what she was going to get into when she married me. I was always going to come back and run the farm. So that was part of the deal.

Yeah, that's fair enough. And then, so what would be your top takeaway for any of our listeners for the Ag Show?

Is it just take that leap, see what you can do that might make things a little bit easier or different for you?

Yeah, take my top take would be, or top giveaway, whatever it is, would be to step outside the system, step outside the box. This suffocating, over regulated box. Try something different. And also think about not selling a produce.

Don't sell a cabbage, sell kimchi, don't sell a potato, sell potato chips. You know, set up a sea container and a fryer and see if you can make some potato chips out of potato. The markup is so much better.

You know, we can't be selling commodities at a loss on a global market. You know, we are in charge of about 30, 30% of our operation.

If you take into geopolitics, weather, ridiculous government regulation, we are, we're just basically slaves to a commodity system. And so get out of that, look.

And see what the consumer wants as well. I guess a little bit within that to see what trends are going on and like you say, see what you can work with it.

How much of that did you do before you started looking into different options? Or did you just go two feet in and run with it?

I just ran with it and it grew. And I think what, I never done any marketing. I mean, if I see a new bakery, I'll pop my head in stuff. But I never. I don't have a marketing strategy.

I'm not just not good enough for that. But what I realized I was very lucky is all bakers, they have little WhatsApp groups and someone started using my flour on this WhatsApp.

Have you tried Henry's flour at this mill? And it's a little niche, you know, weird little mill somewhere that no one else tried. And so everyone has to try it.

So the ball just rolled and it was word of mouth. And actually the best advertising is word of mouth. So that's really what happens when you're.

Making great products, which we do do in the uk, in Britain, why wouldn't it sell itself, eh?

Yeah.

And I think also it's just that connection that they want with the farmer they want to have, they want to know and their customers want to know where the food's coming from. There's nothing more powerful than being able to stand in a field and say, your loaf of bread came from this field. This is.

If you go onto my website, I put the actual coordinates in of where the grain comes from. So you can go on and you can, you can go on Google Maps and you can see the field where your croissant or your bread has been made.

And that connection, we've lost that connection. People go to supermarkets and all this crap is just wrapped in plastic and there's no connection there.

There's no understanding of where it came from, how it was processed or any of that. So that is a real selling point.

So that was interesting hearing from Henry.

Like a few people at this event, very forthright in their particular views, but there is a general sort of like split certainly when it comes to things like SFI and things like that. Ahdb, we've had a fairly big presence here as well. Just running through a couple of the events that were on today.

This being Wednesday, the first day, not just pretty. In a plot trial, there was Henny Laus a discussion on which crop traits really deliver in low input systems.

And we also had herbs to herd which Lynn Briggs led exploring multi species swards for improve performance. But Agrileeder also recorded a piece at the AHDB tent as well. You can see that right now on the AHDB YouTube channel.

But just for you, here's a little bit of a flavor for you.

Chris, you're a new entrant into farming.

How did you go along the regen route? What, what was it that attracted you to that?

I'm very interested in nature and being outdoors and I have a real belief that nature has a massive healing effect on us.

And I guess being very aware or making myself very aware of the effects both negative and positive that I'm having on other living things on this planet with us definitely steers the way that I feel I want to farm or how I want to manage my sheep or whatever. So I think just being very aware of the actions that I take and the effects they have on other things has played a big role in that.

Chris, interesting. I get asked this sometimes. Has having children changed that even more for you? Do you think more about that since having had sid?

Absolutely, yeah, 100%. Particularly in the food that we feed her.

Quite interestingly, I was having a conversation about desiccating crops earlier and recently there's been a lot in the media about glycerophyte found in certain foods and things like that. And I think, you know, it's terrifying, really. It terrifies me. Things like that have definitely changed it.

And also actually, sorry, I keep talking about, I feel like there were some really, really interesting things to see 50 years ago, like farmland birds and things like that, and they're not here anymore. And I do wonder what that will be in 50 years time if we don't do certain things.

You're still with us on the Ag Show. Martin and I, in the middle of the field at Groundswell having a lovely time, aren't we? Learning loads?

Absolutely. And it's fair to say you probably learned the most out of the next person we're going to hear from. Your health and safety went out the window.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll let everybody decide for themselves as to whether you want Charlotte around in a moment of crisis.

But I know health and safety on farm is a topic we are actually going to look at in a bit more detail on a. On an ag show fairly soon, but we had a bit of a flavour of what to expect today. Who was it that we went to see?

Went to see Rabbi and yeah, I don't know that you would want me in an emergency, but they did have some really useful information and tools. Come on, producer Martin. This looks like a fun thing for us to go. And do you know how much I love a game?

We are here with Rabbi and they have got a very fun looking spinning wheel game with some not very fun looking things on there, as in it saying burned, crushed, drowned, injured by an animal. Jessica, can you talk us through what this is?

Yeah, sure. So this is our spin the wheel. It's to highlight our farmers aid app, which is out now to download.

It's free to download, works offline and these are some of the scenarios that feature on the app. So I'm going to.

Well, you're going to see spin the wheel and then whichever scenario you land on, we'll talk through it and you have 60 seconds to tell me what you would do in the event of that event.

Okay. Fingers crossed. I'm good at this.

No pressure.

You ready? Oh, it's spinning. What do you think I'm gonna get?

Oh.

Oh. Charlotte has been crushed on a farm.

Your scenario is a farm worker has been crushed beneath heavy equipment and is trapped on the ground. You're the first person at the scene and you've got 60 seconds to tell me what you would do.

Probably panic. That's not the right answer. Maybe check to see if they're awake or responsive. Maybe check and shout for help, see if there's anyone else on farm.

Hope that I've got signal I can call 999. Panic might be where I'm at. I don't know that I need a full 60 seconds.

So basically what we're trying to do is talk three people through these scenarios to highlight that, you know, it is hard to know what to do in these scenarios. And that's why we have our Farmers Aid app, which you can download on phones and press for emergency advice.

So obviously call Nine9 in the first instance always. It all works offline because, you know, in farming, you know, we don't always have signal.

So it also gives you your location automatically working offline. And it will find your location, give you your, what, three words and then you can go through for emergency advice.

So if we're looking at the scenario here today, crushed. It then gives you advice on what to do, takes you through the scenario.

So if they're bleeding heavily, you can also say where, whether they're trapped or impaled. If.

Then if they're not, it will just take you through all of the scenarios of what to do and how to pack and press a rune, for example, in this instance.

And it will take you through all of these, even including how to apply a tourniquet and what items you can use if you have not got a tourniquet around.

So really we just want as many farmers to download it as possible because you never know when either you might need it or someone on farm might need it. And it's free. So why wouldn't you, you know.

Yeah, why wouldn't you? Don't do Charlotte. Don't just say panic when someone that goes wrong.

So I think that might definitely be something that's worth our listeners looking into. I see you've got a little prize game.

We do, we do. So if you want to drop and see what you win.

Can it be a good prize? Yeah.

Yeah.

Where do I drop it in?

So just drop it down.

Ooh. Number three.

Number three. A hat.

Martin, you've got a hat.

Madame, with the kids.

Dashing.

Thank you.

Well, Martin, you can't say I don't look after you gifting you the hat.

That's it. And I've put it on at a good time because the sun has just got out.

We don't do product placement here on AHDB's the Ag show, but obviously there we've just given you a flavour of the sorts of people and stands that were here at Groundswell. I did get told that John Williams was going to be here and I thought, great.

He's the guy who composes all the stuff for Raiders of the Lost Ark and he did Jaws, Star wars and things like that.

Harry Potter.

No, this was John Williams, British Society of Soil Science consultant. And he had a rather large hole, which caught your attention, didn't it, Charlotte.

Martin? I've fallen in a hole, but very thankfully I've got a lovely gentleman here that's going to explain all these things that we can see.

So how am I in this hole? What's going on here?

Well, soil is fundamental to all sorts of ecosystem services. Fancy word there for you. But basically, if the soils aren't performing well, then they're not going to produce food.

And also the impact on the environment is going to be significantly affected. So it's really important that we understand what soil, how healthy a soil is.

And a few years ago now, the AHDB commissioned a project to try and understand exactly what a healthy soil can look like. And healthy soil depends on several factors, not least soil physics, soil chemistry and soil biology.

And so measuring those and understanding what sort of levels we should be at to determine what healthy soil is, is really important. Organic matters there, how much of a feedstock there is for the soil biology.

And the soil biology is really, really important because that helps with the turnover of nutrients in the soil by breaking down the organic matter, but also structuring the soil as well. So we've got really.

Even though the levels are a bit lower than we would have wanted, you can see there, there's plenty of roots, there's some lovely soil colours there, nice dark colour, which suggests that we've got plenty of organic matter, certainly in the topsoil. And you can see there, the soil is aggregated very well, so the aggregates are stable, but they're soft enough to allow the roots to get in.

And if the roots are getting in, then that it's using the moisture and they're extracting the nutrients, which is obviously crucial for growth.

So it sticks together, but stuff can get through it.

Spot on. Absolutely bob on.

And as we go lower down through the soil, then you can see that there's a sort of slightly clay layer here and the structures are getting a bit bigger, so they're a bit denser. But what's really nice about this soil is that there's a worm there, look, coming out.

You've got these cracks between the soil aggregates and that allows the water to drain through. Because one of your big issues with clay soils is the fact that they hold water. And if the soils aren't very well structured, then they become.

The water sits there and it goes horribly anaerobic and causes all sorts of issues with. With roots not being able to get down and we end up with runoff over the surface.

If we end up with rains or having good soil structures in really important. And you can see that the worm there has.

It's been a bit dry, so this worm's probably being a bit thirsty, but it's there and it's having a little bit of a rest.

But when that soil's wetted up, I'm sure it'll be running up and down and chasing things around the soil and making lots of lovely holes which then allow more oxygen to get in, because roots need oxygen, the plants need oxygen and allows the water to drain through. And then we get into this subsoil where there's obviously less organic matter because the roots. There's obviously roots getting down into the.

Into the. Into the subsoil. And again, mainly it's moisture that we're looking to extract there.

And because we're on the chalk, this lovely white chalk stuff, then there's lots of moisture in the chalk, so the roots can get into the chalk and extract the moisture. So that's what we're doing with the soil here. And we're matching that, as I said, to what the information we've got from the Soil Health scorecard.

And you can see the soil ph is quite high.

Managing soil ph is really, really important because that has a big impact on controlling the nutrient supply characteristics, particularly on calcareous soils. And this is. You normally want to be around about six and a half.

Will the factors on chalk be making a difference to soil ph or is that something completely different?

Yeah, calcium carbonate in the chalk means that the high ph, you end up with high ph. And so it's difficult to manage that on the soils perspective.

But you're looking to some of the arable crops particular going to be potentially susceptible to micronutrient deficiencies, manganese deficiencies and boron potentially as well. So managing those aspects in crops would be a really good thing to do, and these soils would be.

Unless you've got that information, then you can't obviously use it to manage the crops effectively. Phosphate levels are a bit low and again, that's probably not overly surprising because calcium.

With the calcium carbonate and the soil, there's a lot of iron and aluminium as well, and that tends to lock up phosphate, because the phosphate needs to be in the soil solution in order for the crops to take it up. And if it's stuck on the soil, then the plants can't get at it.

So you probably want to be applying a little bit more phosphate here from a crop perspective, because generally for arable crops, we need to. And grassland crops, we need to be at Soil Index 2, which is a bit higher. So we'd be looking to manage the phosphate here.

Plenty of potash, plenty of magnesium. The VEZ score, what does that stand for? Visual assessment of soil structure.

And that basically is a proxy for physics, because ultimately then what you can do is see how compact the soil is, and if the soils are particularly dense, then it may be that it's a little bit compact and it's something just to keep an eye on.

And particularly this compacted layer here or this clay layer here, you wouldn't want to be causing compaction in that clay layer because that would mean that you'd need to cultivate, potentially to relieve that compaction. And then the earthworm numbers.

The earthworm numbers are very low because you'd normally expect to see quite a lot of earthworms, particularly in grassland situations, and normally more than around about 20 earthworms in a 15 centimeter pit that we would normally dig. But it's very vulnerable to or very susceptible to soil conditions. As to how many earthworms around, I think this.

These were done last month when it was all a wee bit dry, maybe. And so there may well not have been a lot of earthworms around, because if you're an earthworm like this fellow, you'd want to be down low.

You don't want to be getting dried out in that sun.

Yeah.

So this one's probably feeling a little bit. A little bit thirsty.

What a day it's been, Martin. I know it looks probably to the listeners like we've done nothing but have a jolly. I feel like we have both learned lots being here to day.

Absolutely. It's fantastic. First groundswell that I've been to. We obviously heard from John earlier on.

It's 10 years and they're going to be going stronger, aren't they? At least another 10 years of groundswell. We've got ground school coming at some point soon, but, yeah, it's been a pleasure.

Not too achy my feet, but we have been on the go for quite a while. The event, I think, has had a bit of an impact. Impact on me, but I think it's about time we had a bit of an impact on the event.

And, well, the final Ag show sticker, we're out of them because we've been doing so many swapsies. I think we'll just leave it here on the groundswell letters and off we go.

Bye for now.