Transcripts
Welcome to Live With The Pricing Lady.
Speaker:I'm Janene, your hostess.
Speaker:This show is all about helping you build a sustainably profitable
Speaker:business while making an unbelievable impact on your world.
Speaker:Learn from my 20 years of experience and from my guests as we discuss their pricing
Speaker:challenges, failures, and successes.
Speaker:Pricing is a way of being or behaving in your business.
Speaker:My mission is to help you confidently charge for the value you deliver.
Speaker:Pricing is either hurting or helping your business.
Speaker:Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.
Speaker:In this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, I sit down with Stacy
Speaker:Hagen, a holistic business coach.
Speaker:Stacy shares with us, how pricing was pretty scary for her at first.
Speaker:And she wants you to know it's not as scary as it seems.
Speaker:She shares with us, her pricing journey and so much more.
Speaker:So sit back, relax and enjoy the episode.
Speaker:Welcome everyone to today's episode and welcome to my guest Stacey Hagen.
Speaker:Hello Stacey.
Speaker:Hi, Janene.
Speaker:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker:You're welcome.
Speaker:I'm so excited to have you here.
Speaker:Let me share something before we get started with our, our, our
Speaker:questions about how I found Stacey.
Speaker:I was just telling her that I was doing some SEO research for one of
Speaker:my own posts and she was one of the posts that came up or one of her
Speaker:articles, one of the posts that came up when I was doing my SEO research.
Speaker:And I thought, okay, we got to have this lady come on the show.
Speaker:So I'm super excited to have you here with me.
Speaker:Yes, and I'm so glad you found me as well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So Stacey, where are you joining from today?
Speaker:I am joining from just north of San Francisco in the Bay Area.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:Oh, that's right.
Speaker:I totally forgot about that.
Speaker:We're both.
Speaker:That's not far from where I grew up.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What would you describe as your superpower?
Speaker:That's a good question.
Speaker:I think probably one of my biggest superpowers is helping people who are
Speaker:reticent to market their business, learn to market their business confidently.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Oh, that's excellent.
Speaker:What's one thing, interesting thing that you'd like to share that
Speaker:most people don't know about you?
Speaker:Well, what can I say?
Speaker:Well, I will share that I'm an introvert and maybe people who
Speaker:follow me do know that about me.
Speaker:But because I, I coach on marketing.
Speaker:People don't often make that connection.
Speaker:So I just like to tell people that because a lot of times introverts think they can't
Speaker:market, they can't do things like go live on social media and you definitely can.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, that's great.
Speaker:I think, I think it's all about finding your way to do something
Speaker:regardless of how you define yourself.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yes, exactly.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:So why don't we start then by you sharing what inspired you to start your business
Speaker:and tell us a bit about what you do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, I was really inspired to become a coach through my
Speaker:experience of hiring a coach.
Speaker:This was like way back in 2010 when life coaches were still new ish.
Speaker:And I had such a good experience and I thought, wow, like, you know, what a
Speaker:fulfilling career path this could be.
Speaker:So I took the first step and enrolled in a coach training program, but at
Speaker:that point I still didn't like, I didn't know I was going to start a business.
Speaker:I didn't have a vision for it.
Speaker:And after coach training, I dabbled in life coaching for a while.
Speaker:Cause it's kind of like a natural thing to do after coach training.
Speaker:And then I realized I actually missed using my business and marketing skill set.
Speaker:And I, I really wanted to bring that into my work.
Speaker:So that's when I transitioned to business coaching.
Speaker:And why business coaching?
Speaker:I
Speaker:mean, I have, I have an MBA and I had so much experience in marketing.
Speaker:I really like enjoy helping people with that.
Speaker:So, and it, you know, it kind of, I call myself a marketing coach
Speaker:as well, but it all kind of falls under the like business umbrella.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:So one of the things, as I said, one of the reasons I found you because I
Speaker:was doing this SEO research and you wrote a really wonderful article.
Speaker:Let me just see.
Speaker:I think it was titled,
Speaker:life coach pricing, how to effectively price your coaching services.
Speaker:So why don't you tell us a little bit more about your own journey with pricing
Speaker:and what led you to, to that article?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I think pricing is like one of the most nerve wracking parts when you're
Speaker:starting your business and you're coming up with a package or an offer, you
Speaker:know, for me and even the people I work with coming up with the offer is fun.
Speaker:And if you know your ideal client, it can be pretty easy.
Speaker:But then when it comes time to Put a number on it.
Speaker:That's when it activates, all of our anxiety and any insecurities
Speaker:we have about anything.
Speaker:Remember that first one?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I was in a coach training or a coach program at that point.
Speaker:And the coach encouraged us all to have a 97 offer.
Speaker:And Yeah, it was a little bit weird for me because I was already
Speaker:charging certain people more than that out of coach training.
Speaker:I was trying to figure out, is this the right thing for me?
Speaker:But, but I did it.
Speaker:I ended up, raising the price shortly thereafter.
Speaker:But I do think it, I do think when you're just like, you've never been
Speaker:paid for anything before, if you can start at a low amount just to see like,
Speaker:Oh, people will pay me for this thing.
Speaker:To gain some momentum, you mean?
Speaker:Yeah, momentum and even confidence.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, that first dollar that you make from your own business is huge.
Speaker:It's just, it's like, Whoa, maybe I can do this.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, it is pretty exciting.
Speaker:And I understand, you know, you sometimes you see the movie, like the restaurant
Speaker:owner, he, Or she frames the first dollar bill they got in their business.
Speaker:I can understand the, the desire to do that because it is pretty exciting.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:it is, but it's also not sustainable.
Speaker:I mean, if you're charging everyone 97, you're going to be working 24 seven
Speaker:and still, and still struggling to earn what you want.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Totally.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, When you talk about your journey, have there been things that you
Speaker:tried in terms of pricing that didn't work so well in your business?
Speaker:And how did that come about?
Speaker:And what did you do about it?
Speaker:Yeah, good question.
Speaker:I think, I mean, I definitely fell into the trap of, of underpricing.
Speaker:Even when I had a bigger package I think I didn't realize like this specific type
Speaker:of client I coach, they need a lot of support in between just coaching sessions.
Speaker:And I realized, wow, I really need to account for my time, email coaching,
Speaker:Voxer coaching, you know, which could be more than the sessions even.
Speaker:So yeah, I, I did underprice and when you're underpricing, it's hard to,
Speaker:Make what you want to make, but it also burns you out because how can
Speaker:you take as many clients as you need?
Speaker:So that's definitely a big trap I fell into.
Speaker:So I'm curious, actually, I don't think I've ever asked anyone this question,
Speaker:but since you've done both life coaching and business coaching, do you see a
Speaker:difference in how you price the offers for those different types of coaching?
Speaker:That's a really good question.
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:Well, it depends on the target market.
Speaker:I will say that.
Speaker:It depends on the target market and the value they see.
Speaker:The thing with business coaching, at least in the States, is you can write it
Speaker:off on your taxes as a business expense.
Speaker:And so, People know that.
Speaker:And also if business coaching, if you can show the ROI, right, people
Speaker:are more likely to maybe invest more.
Speaker:Whereas I still think sometimes people think of life coaching
Speaker:similar to therapy and it's sometimes it's hard to demonstrate the ROI.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm also wondering, cause I find personally like with life coaching,
Speaker:maybe you disagree with this, but it's.
Speaker:There's not as much support needed like in between sessions and things like that, but
Speaker:with business coaching, like you said, I find myself as well that people want and
Speaker:can benefit from, you know, quick short calls or some access to you in between.
Speaker:And it's different with business coaching in that context as well.
Speaker:Yeah, I do agree with you.
Speaker:With my life coaching clients, they didn't really need, I mean, if we,
Speaker:especially if we met once a week, they didn't really need support.
Speaker:Whereas the business coaching clients are like, you know,
Speaker:can you look at my sales page?
Speaker:What do I do about this client?
Speaker:And, and they just do need more support.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think that's a good distinction to make.
Speaker:Like I said, I've never really thought about it that way, but
Speaker:if, you know, someone's listening They're trying to decide what to do.
Speaker:It's a good, good piece of information to have.
Speaker:So what's been your biggest success when it comes to pricing in your own business?
Speaker:You know, I think The biggest success has been creating a signature package
Speaker:and allowing it to evolve over time.
Speaker:Sticking with it and raising the price incrementally.
Speaker:I see a lot of coaches just creating new offers all the time.
Speaker:Like, here's this new thing.
Speaker:It's this, here's this other new thing.
Speaker:It's like, what if you just created something that was so good, it
Speaker:could grow with your business.
Speaker:And then I'm learning more as I deliver it.
Speaker:I'm just raising the price incrementally and I'm getting known for that thing.
Speaker:So, yeah,
Speaker:I would say that makes sense.
Speaker:I think a lot of people have shared with me that they.
Speaker:Especially early in their business, they felt they couldn't raise their prices.
Speaker:Like somehow that was a taboo thing to do.
Speaker:And I think it's important for people to understand that not
Speaker:only is it possible, it's usually necessary as you go along, right?
Speaker:Yes, it's necessary.
Speaker:And even like to be expected, like you should be raising your prices
Speaker:because you are You're also improving, you know, as a coach and maybe you're
Speaker:adding more bells and whistles.
Speaker:And so, yeah, it's natural.
Speaker:Yeah, it is.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:So you work with a lot of people and I'm curious, what sort of struggles do you
Speaker:see they have as they're building their businesses when it comes to pricing?
Speaker:I would say just knowing where to start with pricing.
Speaker:When someone's very hung up on that, I have them focus on just creating an offer.
Speaker:That's so, so valuable, like, and do the market research around it to see
Speaker:what your ideal clients need and want and see what they're willing to pay for.
Speaker:And then just create the most valuable offer you can and map it all out
Speaker:before you even think about a price.
Speaker:I think sometimes we just get too hung up on the numbers and the
Speaker:numbers just have to be reflective of the value of what we're providing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I agree with that.
Speaker:That's really important.
Speaker:And I love that you keep going back to the customer because that's
Speaker:one of my mantras, if you will,
Speaker:because it's a lot of the, my, my Experience has been a lot of
Speaker:the questions people have about what are they willing to pay?
Speaker:How should I market this?
Speaker:Which channel should I be on?
Speaker:If they just took the time to understand the customer better, a lot
Speaker:of those questions would be answered.
Speaker:Oh, 100%.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I think I don't know.
Speaker:I don't really know why this is, but there's a lot of creating offers
Speaker:and even marketing in a vacuum.
Speaker:And it's like, no, you're doing this.
Speaker:for someone else.
Speaker:And it's so important that you know as much as you can
Speaker:about this target audience.
Speaker:They will answer your questions.
Speaker:You can ask them where they hang out, where they look for materials.
Speaker:You can even ask them the range that they're willing to pay.
Speaker:I mean, you just cannot separate your pricing from your ideal clients.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:Actually, it's not just pricing, but building your business period.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Agreed.
Speaker:I like to talk about it as like the North star in your business.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, that's why, that's how we're in business, right?
Speaker:Is to, to serve clients and we're in business because we have clients.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Otherwise, why are we doing this?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I, my experience has been a lot of people put the competition before
Speaker:or their costs before the customer.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They look at it.
Speaker:Those things are somehow,
Speaker:I think people feel they're easier to look at.
Speaker:No
Speaker:The competition is not really going to talk about, talk back to you because
Speaker:you can look at them from afar and your costs are going to tell you,
Speaker:you know, that your idea is wrong.
Speaker:Talking to customers, for a lot of people, is very scary.
Speaker:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that just, when you were mentioning that, just, that just made me think
Speaker:about the number of people that, I've worked with that right away.
Speaker:They're like, well, I need to make 100, 000.
Speaker:How can I make 100, 000 a year?
Speaker:And it's like, then they're just kind of creating things
Speaker:and pricing them arbitrarily so they can make 100, 000 a year.
Speaker:And it's like, let's back up, you know, and maybe you don't make that the first
Speaker:year, like, let's be realistic and then price in alignment with the Ideal Client.
Speaker:It's important to look at it from different aspects.
Speaker:And of course cost is one aspect and the market is another
Speaker:and your customer is another.
Speaker:And depending on your strategy, you may lean more towards one.
Speaker:of those and the other.
Speaker:But if you haven't looked at them all, then you don't have a full
Speaker:picture of the situation either.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that, I mean, things change so fast in business, right?
Speaker:You, you might like create a signature package and price it and think,
Speaker:well, I don't know how I would make a hundred thousand dollars, but
Speaker:maybe that package evolves and six months from now you create a course.
Speaker:Like you just have to be willing to be very flexible too, I think.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Let's see,
Speaker:boy, we've got through my questions.
Speaker:So when you, when you talk to or work with your clients and help them
Speaker:to understand the customer, how, what tools are you using for that?
Speaker:Or how do you, how do you approach that?
Speaker:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker:One of the first things I do with clients as I have them do some,
Speaker:some informal market research.
Speaker:Ideal client interviews are the best for that.
Speaker:But you still have to be willing to put yourself out there and
Speaker:say, Hey, I'm a new career coach.
Speaker:I'm looking to speak with women who are reentering the workforce.
Speaker:You need to be willing to put the ask out there and put it in a lot, a lot
Speaker:of different places in order to get on.
Speaker:the phone or on zoom with these people and ask these questions.
Speaker:So that's one thing they might do.
Speaker:They might also create surveys.
Speaker:They might also do some competitor research, not to copy the competitor,
Speaker:but just to see like, Oh, what are other people commanding in this space?
Speaker:So that's a huge focus before they even.
Speaker:You know, create their package.
Speaker:Thank you for saying that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I find so often people create the package and then they go find
Speaker:somebody to sell it to, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:If you do that, it's going to take longer and you might have to start over.
Speaker:I've seen that before.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think
Speaker:if you're in business long enough, you, you, we all have.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and that's something I recommend the market research part, not just to
Speaker:new business owners, but every time you're creating something new or every
Speaker:time you even have an idea, like go talk to people and try to validate it
Speaker:first before you go down that path.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I'm a big believer in, in customer interviews myself.
Speaker:So but I also am very,
Speaker:let's say, clear that there are product validation interviews and then there
Speaker:are customer insight interviews.
Speaker:And to me, those are two very different things because one is kind
Speaker:of, let me understand, you know, what you're challenged with in a day in
Speaker:your life and, you know, how you go about making decisions around that.
Speaker:Solving that problem.
Speaker:And the other is this is my offer.
Speaker:This is the solution I have for your problem.
Speaker:What do you, what is your feedback on it?
Speaker:There are two very different discussions.
Speaker:And I find a lot of times people mix up the two.
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:And that makes it really hard in marketing and in pricing.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker:That's a really good distinction too.
Speaker:The first step would be them asking those general questions.
Speaker:What are your challenges?
Speaker:What are your desires?
Speaker:And then putting together some type of prototype and then maybe
Speaker:running it by those folks again in a different type of way.
Speaker:I also like the interview because it's It's a way of connecting
Speaker:with people who might be customers without it being a sales discussion.
Speaker:And so you're already building a relationship and a rapport with someone
Speaker:in a way that is for them, you know, very non threatening and it actually can, can
Speaker:help not just with, you know, pricing.
Speaker:Creating your package and pricing it right, but also with just
Speaker:building the relationships and getting them to a point where they
Speaker:might be willing to buy something.
Speaker:Agreed.
Speaker:And I think it's non threatening for both sides.
Speaker:Cause I mean, I work with a lot of people who are scared
Speaker:to sell and market anything.
Speaker:So it's like, Oh, this is just literally a conversation.
Speaker:You with another person talking about the challenges.
Speaker:When you take the pitch off the table, it's just, it's a more
Speaker:authentic discussion, I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:So when I, when, let me circle back to, to the pricing topic here, because I'd
Speaker:like to know, you know, what are one or two tips that you have for people when
Speaker:it comes to doing that first price?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know what I would say, for everyone, but especially when
Speaker:you're doing your first price, Uncouple your worth from your price.
Speaker:Like this whole charge what you're worth.
Speaker:Advice like, I don't even understand it, but no, you're not
Speaker:charging what you're worth, right?
Speaker:Like that's like impossible.
Speaker:You are charging a price based on your level of skillset and
Speaker:what your ideal client is looking for and the value they perceive.
Speaker:It has nothing to do with your worthiness as a human or as a business owner.
Speaker:So just.
Speaker:Just stop and, and, and don't be afraid to experiment and, and
Speaker:don't be afraid to start at a lower place than where you want to be.
Speaker:I mean, you want to be confident when you say that number, whether
Speaker:it's 500 or 5, 000, you want to be confident when you say that.
Speaker:So start with that.
Speaker:And then, you know, I recommend to my clients, make a commitment to yourself.
Speaker:Like once you get five clients, 10 clients enrolled, you're
Speaker:going to raise your price.
Speaker:And
Speaker:just make that commitment at the beginning.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think it's also important to point out with that tip that, you
Speaker:know, when you're in a business like coaching where your customers don't
Speaker:generally come back and buy from you again and again and again, the same
Speaker:thing, it's easier to be able to do that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Whereas if you have repeat, if you're in a business where you have repeat
Speaker:customers, then it's a little bit trickier to do price increases like that.
Speaker:That I think that I see
Speaker:that that's a really good distinction.
Speaker:And what I would say to that is like, you know, even when I raise my prices,
Speaker:if a client has been with me for an extended period of time, they're still
Speaker:grandfathered into their original price.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:So, yeah, good point.
Speaker:You do wanna be conscious about that?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, cool.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:So, Stacy, I'm gonna wrap this up with a few more questions and the first one
Speaker:is, what is it you'd like people to remember most from our conversation today?
Speaker:Just that pricing doesn't have to be scary and it's something
Speaker:that you can change at any time.
Speaker:I mean, I feel like there's this fear of, oh, if I choose this price,
Speaker:it just has to be my price forever.
Speaker:Or if I create this package, it has to be my offering forever.
Speaker:You could change it.
Speaker:Yeah, I've used mine plenty of times.
Speaker:Totally.
Speaker:Yeah, me too.
Speaker:Taken apart, put together, taken apart, put together.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:No, that's excellent.
Speaker:That's excellent.
Speaker:I think yeah, you're right.
Speaker:Absolutely right.
Speaker:Don't be afraid of it and, and don't be worried that you can't
Speaker:change it because you always can.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:Is there a favorite book or tool or podcast or something
Speaker:you'd like to share with us?
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:gosh.
Speaker:About pricing or about anything?
Speaker:Anything.
Speaker:It's been a while since I've read this book, but The Prosperous Coach
Speaker:is a good book for for coaches and coaches just starting out, I would say.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay, good.
Speaker:We'll put the link to that in the show notes so that everybody can check it out.
Speaker:And my last question is, if people would like to reach out to you to find
Speaker:out more about how to work with you and what you do, where should we go?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:The best place is probably my website, which is createcoachingconsulting.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:And you can find my blog posts, a quiz and anything else.
Speaker:So we'll put links to the two blog posts that I stumbled across in the show
Speaker:notes along with her website address and her social media links as well.
Speaker:So you'll be able to reach out to Stacy.
Speaker:Stacy, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker:I so much appreciate, so very much appreciate you being here with me.
Speaker:Thanks Janene.
Speaker:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker:I wish you a great day and as always enjoy pricing.
Speaker:Thank you for listening to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, the podcast.
Speaker:If you enjoyed the episode, rate, review, and subscribe to it, then share
Speaker:it with your friends and colleagues.
Speaker:I love hearing back from you listeners.
Speaker:If you've got comments, questions, or topic ideas, go on over to thepricinglady.
Speaker:com and contact me there.
Speaker:Not sure where to start when it comes to improving pricing and profits?
Speaker:At ThePricingLady.
Speaker:com you can download a copy of my Self Assessment Pricing Scorecard.
Speaker:Find out where it's going well and where you can begin improving.
Speaker:Or just simply book a discovery call with me.
Speaker:There we can discuss what's up with pricing in your business and
Speaker:how I might be able to help you.
Speaker:Thanks once again for joining.
Speaker:Remember, pricing can hurt or help your business.
Speaker:Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.
Speaker:See you next time and as always, enjoy pricing.