After answering a call for general surgeons, Dr. Monica Chaudhuri, an Ontario doctor and activist, recently returned from Gaza. Dr. Chaudhuri shares what it was like working alongside the brave Palestinian healthcare workers, how cruel the Zionist entity can be, and reflects on what its been like returning to Canada while the genocide continues.

Dr. Chaudhuri also talks about the sense of duty many Canadian healthcare workers feel, being the only international professionals, and thus eyewitnesses, allowed into occupied Gaza. A duty that extends beyond her role as a doctor, and into her community where she organizes with Health Workers Alliance for Palestine, Simcoe County 4 Palestine, and the Sustain Campaign Network.

Hosted by: Jessa McLean and Santiago Helou Quintero

Calls to Action:

1. Learn more about Palestinian Prisoners and the fight to free them
2. Join the Arms Embargo Now Movement

Related Episodes:

• Name it. Stop it. Sanction It. Alex Neve, Dr. Dorotea Gucciardo, and Dr. Ben Thompson from United Against Genocide on their work to pressure Canadian politicians.
• Arming Israel: Canada's Continued Role Haneen from the Palestinian Youth Movement and Rachel from World Beyond War share their scathing report.

More Resources:

• The Killing, Detention and Torture of Healthcare Workers in Gaza - Healthcare Workers Watch
• The Breach: Canadian doctors are being tapped for evidence in war crimes case against Israel
• The Independent: Gaza doctor who became face of medical struggle remains in Israeli detention

All of our content is free - made possible by the generous sponsorships of our Patrons. If you would like to support our work through monthly contributions: Patreon

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Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining

power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know

we need. Today, we are talking to Monica. an activist and surgeon who recently traveled

to Gaza on a humanitarian mission. From the insane conditions placed at the border to the

stories of the brave doctors in Gaza who have been working non-stop for over two years,

this conversation was a stark reminder of the extent of the cruelty imposed on Palestinians

by the Zionist entity. I wish I could say I was surprised to learn that although Monica

has made themselves available to major media since returning, her story has been ignored.

First-hand accounts like hers are too few and far in between, which makes it that much more

important for us to welcome her onto our show today. Good morning. Good morning. Doctor,

introduce yourself to the audience, please. Sir, my name is Monica. I'm a general surgeon.

I work in Orillia, Ontario. And I recently went to Gaza to work as a surgeon. I was working

with a group called Humanity Auxillium, which is a small humanitarian organization uh based

in Canada and the US. I went as part of a WHO EMT team and I was there for a couple

of weeks. That is, that just opens up a plethora of questions, right? I mean, I don't know how

much you witnessed that you actually want to share, but What can you tell us about that

experience? I think to be honest with you, my big takeaway from the experience is that this

has to stop. That's all I could think of from beginning to end. This has to stop. um What

you see or what I saw is the utmost cruelty that I've never seen in my life from beginning

to end. From even just preparing for the trip, you could tell that the Zionist entity just

has an agenda to commit the most cruel acts to prevent people from living. As doctors,

oh we first of all have to be approved by the WHO. uh And then once we're approved, then

we have to start preparing for our trip. And we're only allowed to carry one suitcase and

one backpack. We're specifically told not to bring medical supplies. Medical supplies are

not allowed for distribution. Diapers are not allowed. Even baby formula is not allowed.

And I had the idea, I remember, I'm like, okay, I have to bring in baby formula. I have to

bring it in. You hear all these appeals for baby formula, especially premature ah baby

formula. And I thought, okay, maybe I could sneak some in. Maybe I could just like. it

into something, I'll say that it's milk because we have to bring all our own food in anyway.

So I thought maybe I'll sneak it in. But then I was specifically told, do not do that because

they're literally going through your suitcase, looking for formula, throwing it out, looking

for bags that look like milk, that um that could be formula that you're sneaking in and throw

it out. So just think about that for a second. Like what what other entity does this. And

I mean, I've never like I've worked in a lot of different humanitarian contexts in the past,

I have never in my life been told, you can't bring food for babies who are being starved.

So all that to say, I mean, that was just even the big I hadn't even crossed into Gaza

at that point, you know, but I could tell like, this is a cool entity that is bent. on causing

maximal destruction, starvation, extermination. And honestly, it's disgusting. That's all I

can say. You must have been bracing yourself, right? So you've not been naive to what you

were walking into, then start to feel it so early in the process. mean, yeah, absolutely.

It's like and it's one of those things that you like. mean, all of us, probably everybody

who who listens to this podcast, I mean, you've got some awareness. But then to be faced with

that, like literally, you cannot bring food for starving children, starving babies. And

another interesting thing I found was just the thought that we're all just tiptoeing around

the Zionist entities policies. Like, I mean, sure, they have these policies, oh, you can't

bring food, you can't do this, you can't do that. There's literally a sign, by the way,

at the Allen B crossing that says no medical supplies allowed. Like there's a sign in red,

no medical supplies allowed. Like it just makes me think like, why are we, how is it

that they're able to do this? How can they control so much? How can they dictate you can't

bring food in? How can they dictate you can't bring medical supplies in? just, and it's

like, we're complying with it. I don't even know what to say. Like, how is this even possible?

And you'll still have people out there saying it's not an occupation. Well, I mean, that's

just like, I don't even know how. people can say that of course it's an occupation. I don't

know. I don't know if that's willful ignorance or if that's just trying to hide the truth.

I suspect it's just people trying to hide the truth. But it's shocking, isn't it, that they

have these rules and we're all following them. And I'll tell you one other thing that's interesting.

So when you apply... to these organizations, these WHO EMT uh groups. You have to be approved

by the organization that you're applying with. You have to be approved by the WHO. And then

you prepare all your supplies. You fly down to Amman, Jordan. People are going through

Amman, Jordan right now because the Rafa border, as you know, has been shut down. In fact, I

actually tried to get into Gaza over a year ago and it was right May 5th when they attacked

the Rafa crossing and it was closed since then basically. um anyway, so you get everything

ready, you fly to Amman, Jordan. The night before, literally the night before you are scheduled

to go into Gaza, you can be denied. And so we found out late in the evening, the night before

we were leaving, all of us in Amman, Jordan, that you know who was approved to go and who

was not and Kogatz who is an arm of Israel they have the power to say you can go in you

can you cannot and at one point a few months ago the rejection rate was about 50 percent

I don't know the exact number right now but it's high some organizations have had all of

their delegates denied some organizations are delisted in my particular group there were

three doctors Two of us were approved to go, one of us was not. And there's no rhyme or

reason. And the person who got denied entrance was a highly qualified, specialized uh physician

who had been to Gaza before. And a lot of people say, okay, well, maybe we shouldn't speak out

against this because if you speak out, you'll be denied entrance. Of course, that's a manipulation.

They don't want us to speak out. They don't want us to tell the truth. But the thing is,

I don't know if it makes a difference because in this particular case, this was somebody

who kept a low profile, know, didn't have a large social media following and so forth,

but still got denied. So it's like, you can decide not to speak out, so you can go back

into Gaza, but you could still get denied anyway. Literally, they do whatever they want. and

they do it to dissuade you from going. It's an inconvenience. You get everything ready,

you take time off work, you go down and then you're denied entrance and then you're like,

okay, now what do I do? So that likely would dissuade people from going. So I think that

the Zionist entity uses that to dissuade people, to dissuade organizations. Again, how do they

get away with that? How? Just how? They do a lot to dissuade people from journalists,

politicians, you name it, uh but they fail, right? There are still doctors that will go

into Gaza. I mean, like, if you aren't deterred by the situation you know you're walking into,

uh some administrative crap from the Zionist entity isn't going to thwart you. You you've

got people on the flotilla, uh anticipating what is going to happen to them. We are just

seeing more boats go over. What drove you to need to get into Gaza in the first place?

I mean, maybe you can just reflect on it in general as a doctor who goes into conflict

zones. This is not, you know this is not something everyone would do. um Not even every doctor.

So can you talk a little bit about that drive? Yeah, so I'll just, I'll start by saying, uh

I've previously worked with MSF and the Red Cross and I've never actually previously gone

to Gaza. And one of the reasons why is because I'm a general surgeon. don't have like a particular,

I do have a fellowship in critical care and trauma, but I don't, you know, I'm not a neurosurgeon.

I'm not a reconstructive plastic surgeon or anything like that. And the, although the

healthcare system in Gaza has been operating under a siege, there are still exceptional

physicians and highly specialized physicians within Gaza who are doing amazing work despite

all of the restrictions that the Zionist entity holds over them. So they're doing excellent

work. there wasn't, in the times that I've worked with MSF and the Red Cross, there's never

been a time where me as a general surgeon would be... would be deployed there necessarily.

It was typically more specialized surgeons and so forth that would go. Another thing

too is like I have always known that like the Zionist entity has so much impunity. They just,

I've always been a little bit nervous to be honest with you about going into this area.

um But what drove me Recently is the fact that number one, there was a specific call

out for surgeons, particularly general surgeons. And number two, there are very few people

who are able to get into Gaza. And it's surgeons, surgeons, they're calling out for surgeons.

And there was a siege on Gaza. And I really felt that I'm a surgeon, have a duty to try

and get in, try and bring supplies in, try and help as best I can and just be there. So I

saw it as a duty, it would be almost like if the only person who can save a child from a

building is a podcaster. Like of course you would go and try and do something. If the only

person who could go, who could, get in through a border is X person. Like, of course, like

I feel like there truly is a duty. When you were there, did you feel like, I mean, this

is almost a ridiculous question to ask, given what we're seeing, did you? There are no

ridiculous questions. Did you feel like you were in danger? Because when I heard that you

were there, like that sounded terrifying, you know, hearing so many doctors who have been

killed in Gaza. uh And I believe the hospital where you were at had been bombed previously

as well. Just what was that like? Well, I think that's the threat to me. You just have

to also think about the like I was there for a very short period of time. And just imagine

how people who are there and have been working in these hospitals for two years, how they

must feel, you know, living under this every single day, the bombardments. And not only

that, it's being up all night doing all kinds of complex surgeries on patients. For me,

the times that I was nervous were at the borders because I was questioned. quite a bit, particularly

going in. I did have some supplies with me, so they questioned me a lot. But then later

after I talked to other people, they said, no, no, no, that was nothing compared. Some

people get questioned for 16 hours. I was just questioned for a much shorter period of time.

And I was also a little bit nervous uh going between the border and our hospital. You know,

just we were in an armored vehicle and we were specifically told you cannot film anything,

you cannot. you know, take any pictures and like I complied with that because I was just

nervous. I don't know what right they have to say that we can't take pictures, but you know,

that's what they said. And I I kind of listened. em So I was a little nervous then em when I

was there. There certainly there were bombings that you could hear. But there wasn't anything

really that close to where we were. I will admit that on the first night I heard a bomb go off

and I thought it was close. don't know. I've never experienced this before. So I remember

I heard something and I actually saw a light too. And I remember we're instructed, make

sure you have a safe bag and if anything happens, bring it with you. And so what I did was in

middle of the night and I grabbed my safe bag and I went out to the hall and Everyone was

just sitting there drinking coffee and smoking and nobody was faced by it. And they said,

oh, yeah, yeah, no, that's far away. Don't worry about it. things you never want to get used

to. The whole picture thing really grabbed my attention. And I know that for so many of

us, we've seen so much on social media, the pictures, but I I want to get your account

if that's OK, of like, what did you see that they didn't want you? to take pictures of

on your way to the hospital. What was that scene? Yeah, so basically the road was almost like

sand. When you look from side to side, you see the remnants of buildings, a lot of rubble.

And you can see what looks like miles. And it looks like there's miles and miles of this.

Rubble destroyed. homes. um One interesting thing is that the air is different. mean,

that's not what I saw, but the air is different. The air just feels heavy and thick. You know,

it's not like the air of Simcoe County where you breathe in and it's like fresh, clean air.

It's very thick air and it's almost like it's almost hard to breathe. It's different. It's

not what you're used to or not what I was used to. um I will mention that it's not all destruction

though, so I don't want to create the idea that it's only destruction. um In between areas

there's flowers, there's really beautiful flowers and trees, sometimes there's kids running

around with their bicycles, sometimes there's families, there's little shops, little tiny

like... you know, people selling various different things, like whether it's water, cookies, or,

you know, household items. um Close to the hospital, there was like a tea shop that somebody

opened. so although there is a lot of destruction, there is also life, a lot of life. It's not

the only thing that's heavy, the air in Gaza. I mean, this is... um Not that we haven't been

talking about Palestine, but I think hearing the first-hand account is very, very heavy

for me. I want to go back though to your duty as a medical professional, because it is a

unique position for doctors right now and healthcare workers, because you know, journalists are

not allowed in when they are. There's been small examples of our aid planes going over and dropping

boxes and even then they're told. don't take photos. like literally nobody is getting in.

And that's why that sign says no medical supplies is because that's the people using the crossing

for the most part. And they also decide who comes out. Exactly. The entity. uh But when

you come back, you're still a doctor. How does your rule change though? I mean, it's probably

a lot clearer. You're given tasks, you probably worked. the bone, there's no shortage of patients,

you are helping, you're in there, but then you have to leave and you have to come back

inside the imperialist beast that is Canada that plays a clear role in this genocide and

your general surgeon skills need to be transferred a little bit, you know, for the cause. They

still do good work, General surgeons are needed here in Ontario, but how do you do that shift?

inside yourself and change roles? Like, and how do you take that experience in Gaza and,

and use that energy here? Well, one interesting thing, and this isn't exactly what you're asking,

but I, there's just a little point I want to address. So one of the things I will mention

is the Palestinian healthcare workers that I was working alongside were top notch, like

they were top notch. And being around people who have that degree of excellence actually

motivates me to do better, to like up my game, you know, to as a surgeon. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And, you know, I'll just give you one small example. I was doing a case with

somebody. It was a resident. There's the residents are great. And he at the end of the case, I

was like, so what year are you? Are you R4 or R5? He's like, no, no, I'm R1. R1 that means

basically first year resident. He was a first year resident, but he was operating like he

was an R4 or R5 resident. And I said, you're R1? And he said, yeah, I've been volunteering

for the last two years. We've been doing this for two years. I mean, every day they would

have several cases, you know, like, and they just, they just learn fast. and out of necessity

and they've got, you know, incredible experience with trauma. I mean, I would rather have no

bombing and less experience with trauma, but I mean, they've just got this high degree of

excellence. So it's motivated me as a surgeon to, as I mentioned, my game. But I think you

were talking about advocacy more. um So what... For me, it's just motivated me further to

do what I mentioned earlier, which is to stop this, to do everything I can in my power to

stop this. It's really made me think about how it's important to figure out what is most

effective, what is most impactful, what is going to directly stop this. You know, I feel like

sometimes our activism can feel a little bit performative. It's like we're doing, you know,

and I don't want to like all act, it's important. I mean, I think that, you know, the tide is

shifting obviously, and, you know, we're protesting and we're writing letters and we're disseminating

information on social media. So it's all important and all of this has been crucial, I think,

for shifting the narrative. and even putting pressure on our governments, not that our

governments have stopped, but there have been some shifts, I guess. um But yeah, I think

we just have to step it up. The same way I have to step up, I want to step up my game

as a surgeon. Like I want to step up my game as a person who is trying to stop this.

And I just think that we need to escalate in our efforts. You know, we need to think about

how can we have a more direct impact on stopping this genocide and stopping the Zionist entity.

And I think that uh in my mind, it really makes me want to focus on weapons, getting the

weapons out of their hands, and also on boycotting because obviously people are not going to stop.

A genocidal entity is not going to stop on its own, but if the Zionist entity crumbles because

of economic pressure, then they will. I'm hopeful that the occupation will end. So those are

the two things that I've been really thinking a lot about is how to step up the boycotts

and how to directly affect eh the transfer of weapons. Well, we've talked to those people.

We'll link those episodes where Arms Embargo Now is doing some great work, World Beyond

War. Folks just tried to shut down a arms convention in London, Ontario yesterday. Yeah,

that was good. Yeah. folks are are listening, but you have like a unique experience as like

an eyewitness inside Gaza. And a lot of what happens in the media is playing this both

sides. Hamas health officials say versus Israel says, I know you won't call it Israel. I was

going to ask you about that later. But kudos. I understand where you're coming from there,

but you're quite diligent in that. If I did a search afterwards on the transcript, the

Zionist entity will come up many, many, many times. quite often, despite all we've seen,

their word is given equal weight in most media to refute all of the claims coming from Hamas-run

health officials or Palestinian journalists uh or video proof. um What do you do with

that role where you are a Westerner who apparently has more credibility than any Palestinian that

lives there? But in all honesty, we talked to Dr. Yehbeng G as well and Ben Thompson and

just how they've come back and they're trying to talk to politicians and tell them all of

the horrible things that they've seen and reaffirm the death rate and the targeting of children

and the just malicious— nature of that entity to no avail though. is just because we've actually

all seen it. But do you still feel a responsibility as an eyewitness to document what you've seen

to in some sort of way? Yeah, 100%. And I did provide evidence to international courts in

regards to what I've seen. So I did keep track of everything that I saw, like every case that

I was involved with. And uh I did provide that evidence. In terms of media, I did contact

all of the mainstream media organizations, know, CBC, CTV, Global Mail, Toronto Star,

and to offer... um to offer an interview or to give some words and I haven't heard back

from any of them. I will be doing some speaking engagements. fact, I don't know if I'm allowed

to put a plug in for an upcoming speaking image. Okay, we're going to and it's Simcoe County

one. It'll be in Orillia November 1st and it's going to be a film screening of 1948, Creation

and Catastrophe. which a lot of people see as uh an unbiased view of what happened in

1948 because there's interviews of people who were on the ground at that time. I don't know

if you guys have seen that movie or not. I haven't seen it yet, so I may drive north to Orillia

and join you for that. Please, yeah, it would be great to see you. It would be great to see

you. And there's also, it's gonna be a mutual aid fundraiser for families in Gaza, families

that uh a number, one of our members, Ash, in particular, she's connected with many different

families uh and it's to support them. So yeah, it would be great to see you there. But anyway,

I will be speaking on that day. So that is one way that I'm uh gonna try and help get the

word out. I also like to create social media, I'm creating slides and trying to disseminate

that information out um based on my experience. What's the reaction been like from your co-workers

and family after you've come back and now you're screaming from the rooftops? Not that you weren't

before, but I mean, you probably amped it up. Yeah. Well, my family was very... My family

was very happy to see me back. They were very worried. They were very worried, but they're

all very sympathetic to the cause and they see it. They understand what's going on. And I

feel like they're becoming activists themselves. I feel like that's going to happen. think

it's, I think it's happening. um In terms of colleagues, I think it's split. Many people

are interested. There are many people who are interested and ask me lots of questions about,

you know, what it was like, what I saw, and then they'll go into a rant, similar to the

rant that I started out with, like, oh my goodness, design centers are so cruel, they have to be

stopped, they have to... But then a lot of people, I guess you could split it up into thirds.

So maybe about a third of the people um really are passionate and really see what's going

on and say, what I said before, like this has to stop. There's another third who really

want to both sides it and they might be interested a little bit in maybe the medical perspective

or the apolitical neutral humanitarian perspective quote unquote. And oh, it's so sad that there's

so much suffering and this has been going on for centuries. That sort of. perspective,

which is obviously problematic and harmful. And then there's another third who don't even

ask and don't seem to want to know or maybe they think it's too controversial or I don't

know. But yeah, there's a fair number of people who just don't say anything. So that's basically

that in a nutshell. I've seen you post up about silencing that happens in the healthcare profession.

And I think we did touch on it with the doctors I mentioned earlier, but have you experienced

that? I'm not going to give that third any kind of cred, but perhaps we can say that that atmosphere

feeds into people just being like, you know, not my business. I'm not getting involved.

Look what happened to X, Y, and Z when they came back. and started talking about their

experience and they started calling out the bosses, you know, and uh for their inaction.

Santiago mentioned Honest Reporting has glommed on to you. So you must be doing something,

right? I actually didn't know that. Really? That's like a badge of honour. You were named

for it in something Honest Reporting did. Oh, good. You'll have to send her the link now.

She's got to frame it or something. You know, like I was actually named by Levythean too,

because I we renamed we renamed St. Vincent Bridge and Barry Alshifa Bridge and they were

mad that can you believe these people named it Alshifa Bridge? um I have to say I've been

pretty fortunate. I have not been. I have not been called to the office at work. uh Nobody

has given me a hard time really about what I've been doing or saying. I know that it has been

discussed in the sense that when I was speaking to somebody they said, oh yeah, what you're

doing is fine. We talked about it. You're not on hospital property. You're not representing

the hospital. So you can do whatever you want outside of the hospital. So yeah, I've been

very fortunate that way. I have not really been silenced too much. and I feel comfortable

being vocal. And the reality is like, you know, if there was a serial killer wandering

the streets of Barry, nobody would hesitate about saying, we have to catch the serial killer

and stop them. Like nobody would hesitate about that. And the same way we have a literal serial

killer that is murdering and trying to exterminate Palestinians, trying to erase their existence.

Like we have to call it, we have to call that out and stop them. You know, so I think at

this point, if somebody tries to silence me or says anything, like I just, I'm comfortable,

I'm comfortable enough to say like, you know, like I don't care, you know? And I think that,

you know, the people who are still trying to justify this, like they're the ones who

should be the pariahs. Do you know what I mean? Like they should be shamed. Nobody should be

shaming me. for calling out murder, calling out the Zionist entity for mass murder. Like

other people should be embarrassed for supporting them. And if anybody says to me like, oh, do

you support armed resistance? Of course I support armed resistance. Do you support Palestinian

liberation? Of course I be qualifying questions for all our guests, eh, Santiago? Yeah, yeah.

Part of the And you could ask it back. It's like, oh, you don't? You don't support Palestinian

liberation? Why not? You know what I mean? It has to be like... Independence is the word

they're using now. They support Palestinian independence. um Even liberation won't fall

off. their tongues. Liberals. And even then some. And I mean small L liberals. Like the

problematic ones we're talking about where, oh, those poor children, if Hamas would just

give up the the hostages, why, you know. Yeah. Can I just say something that I just don't

want to forget to say this, um just on the topic of you know, words that people use and language.

And I really feel that the Zionist entity uses terminology like terrorists em as a racial

slur, essentially. So they can say, we killed terrorists. And that's no different from saying

the cockroaches, you know, the genocidal language of other genocides, you know. We killed the

cockroaches. We eliminated the whatever racial slur. they use, um mean, Hamas is the government

and the armed ring, the armed ring wing of Hamas is the, you know, is, know, the Cassan

brigades, like they're, they are freedom fighters. This is a national liberation movement, but

yet the word Hamas is used also as a slur. anything is Hamas, you know, and they use that as justification

for murder, you know. And so I think we just have to be conscious of that language that

these are slurs that are used to justify killing. And I'm just going to just reiterate that I'm

not saying, like, I'm not saying anyone's a terrorist. Like I'm saying that armed resistance

people are freedom fighters. But I just don't want to make that anyone confused, like that

is that they're used as a slur by the Zionist entity and by other people and by mainstream

media. I will also mention that in my opinion, the word civilian is problematic too, because

people will say, oh, they killed civilians. Okay, so they shouldn't kill civilians. Yeah,

of course they shouldn't kill civilians, but they shouldn't kill freedom fighters either.

You know, I mean, you know, they shouldn't kill like this is not the jungle where you

can just kill everybody, you know. Yeah, anyway, all that to say, I try and avoid using the

word civilian and use the word people instead. That's a good point. I thought perhaps you

were going elsewhere with the civilian comment because I find and take issue. with every

Israeli being called a civilian, yet they're set... they're always called civilian. They're

all military though. But they're also settlers actively expanding using violence in the West

Bank. Exactly. You know, that's not civilian by definition. They're just lacking a fucking

uniform, right? So, or a designation or maybe pay. But even that, I doubt. They always

call Israelis civilians. And they often call Palestinians terrorists. Like honestly, it's

disgusting. It's disgusting. And another uh term, thing that they often say is they'll

always call uh Israeli POWs hostages. But they're actually prisoners of war. They're

prisoners of war. They're not hostages. I think we need to always check ourselves for when

it comes to terminology. Yeah. Oh, no. Definitely. And language matters, right? It sets the tone

and it gives cover to the Zionist entity. Yeah, I have plenty of examples I've probably shared

before. I won't bore the audience there. But I wonder, working alongside Palestinian health

care workers, What do they say about you coming home? Do they say anything? Like, is it strictly

professional or, you know, do they look at you at some point and be like, can you make this

stop? Like, I don't know. um Did you ever talk about ending the occupation or the occupation

itself with your Palestinian co-workers? You know what, to be totally honest with you, at

the period of time that I was there, uh This was pre like this quote unquote ceasefire.

We know that the ceasefire has been violated many times. um There was a lot of blast injuries,

bombings, violence happening at the time that I was there. And I don't want to, I don't

want to make a statement that suggests that everybody thought the same way. I just want

to make sure it's clear that I didn't talk to everybody, you know, I talked to a few

people and a lot of people, I talked to several people, I'm just saying I, their opinions

may not represent everybody's opinion. And I was there for a period of time and it's a specific

period of time. So even the people I talked to, they could have different opinions today

or, you know, six months ago. But at the time that I was there, um The people that I talked

to, to be totally honest, many of them were losing hope. A lot of them were losing hope.

And a lot of them would say things like, you know, Gaza's finished and, you know, um it's

all done. we, you know, and many people were asking um for help in terms of navigating.

moving to Canada, moving to another country. I think people wanted to stay in their homeland.

They have the right to be there. They're indigenous Palestinians who have the right to be there

and the right to return back to their homes in occupied Palestine. But many of them were

like my kids and they want to survive. People want to survive. So, yeah, honestly, a lot

we're losing hope and as I mentioned, a lot wanted to move elsewhere. That was a gut punch.

I mean, I don't want you to sugarcoat it, but, know, damn. Yeah, and it was really, yeah,

it's an awful thing to hear for sure. And I mean, like, There's not a lot you can say to

that. You're not going to say, oh, no, no, no. Like, yeah, everything's going to be fine.

Like, you don't. You can come live with me, you know. Yeah. And yeah. And I mean, I mean,

I sincerely believe the occupation will end. I mean, it has to. What are we doing if if

it's not? I and I think about like Laura Sheehy when she says the precondition is liberation.

Do you remember her saying that you listen to her? Yeah. The precondition is liberation.

So we have to think that. And even if some people are losing hope, we have to keep pushing. We

have to push even harder. And honestly, it's our responsibility to stop this because it's

our fault. know, it's our responsibility. We're the people who are providing diplomatic cover

to the Zionist entity. We're the people who are sending weapons to Zionist entities. So

it is on us. to do more and to stop it. I will mention too, like I know that I said that,

I mean, a lot of people that I talked to were losing hope. At the same time, things were

still happening. People were getting married, people were having babies, people were making

plans. Becoming doctors. People were becoming doctors. all the medical students showed up

for like I did a, did a, two, actually one of the highlights honestly was I did a medical

student teaching session just on basic like suturing and how to put gloves on, how to put

gowns on. And I mean, these medical students were just so smart and they're just so excited

and em yeah, really, really inspiring. em A lot of them were like, my dream is to become

a surgeon. And you can see the gleam in their eyes and they're so excited. And one of them

said, okay, can I be a surgeon? Do think I can be a surgeon? They're just so like, they've

got a lot of joy in them. They're so excited to learn. yeah, there is. People are losing

hope, but there is also hope. I imagine they go through cycles of feelings, right? As the

day goes and promises are made and ceasefires come and go, it's got to be an emotional roller

coaster. Like, certainly no one here is going to fault anyone for losing hope or trying

to find a safe home for their children. Yeah. Almost every single healthcare worker that

I talked to lost their home. Like almost everybody lost their home. And people are literally,

they're sleeping in tents, no electricity or basic amenities that most of us would be used

to. So, you know, they finished their work day and then they have to go home and find

water and they have to find food and they have to like, you know. And then, you know, the

first thing a lot of people do when they arrive to work, you can see people looking for chargers

so they can charge their devices and everything. And they're working after, like, how often

do you, like, if you go, you know, live in a tent overnight and work a hard day at work,

like, it's just... For two years, you know. I don't know, yeah. So, and people work, it's

not just any work. It's not just doing like a couple... you a few cases here, a few cases

there. No, people are doing like major trauma cases, intense cases, long cases, difficult

cases. After sleeping in a tent, it's hard to sleep outside with a lot of noise and you're

worried and you're vulnerable to bombardments and come into work, work all day, no food.

A lot of times people... I remember a few times people were like, oh yeah, I haven't eaten

all day. Like all day, worked all day, no food, no water, nothing. Like it's just, like it's

cruel, it's cruel. What kind of world is this where you have a belligerent pariah state

bombing and depriving and forcing people to live like this? And they're just. somehow allowed

to do it. Like, it's just like unbelievable. The impunity is maddening. We call it the,

I know you don't like this word, but Israeli exception. You know, it's, yeah, yeah. Even

the footy fans. I was talking to my husband the other day, because this is language he

can understand. I'm like, you know, British hooligan fans, their teams, their fans get

banned from stadiums all the time. People have to play in an empty stadium all the time. It's

just, it's, you know, it happens. But the Tel Aviv fans, like the most racist football club

known, you know, their fans are awful. They pretty much destroy Amsterdam and attack uh

Muslims and shout racist chants. And so they're banned from another game and it becomes this

global political problem, right? Where the UK PM is stepping in. I mean, it's just sometimes

they're so, they seem mundane and silly like that, but it just applies, applies to absolutely

everything. It's just there are different rules for this entity than have ever existed for

a nation state, even the ones propping them up. know, I got to go back to colonial days

right before international law. it's being inside Canada and knowing our rule is also

very, very, very maddening. Another example of the double standard obviously is in terms

of like what gets labeled as like hate speech. know what I mean? People can say free Palestine

and it can get labeled as hate speech. Like there's a woman who has free Palestine on her

van. She got in trouble with the police in Irelia for having free Palestine under her van. But

yet people who are supporters of the Zionist entity will say all kinds of Islamophobic hate

speech and anti-Palestinian racism. And like, they'll just get away with it. It's just like,

I don't even know what to say. Palestine. Oh yeah. No, I think we'll have to have you back.

to talk about what it's like organizing in places like Barrie and Aurelia and for folks outside

of Ontario. It's, it's, we can't call them urban, they're tiny little urban centers in

the middle of like rural areas and it's not quite Northern Ontario, but it's definitely

not Toronto. It's very conservative, usually politically, at least when people go out and

vote it is. And there are groups organizing like Simcoe for Palestine. despite all of

that, right? And building momentum and just making sure it's just, I think a great example

of organizing wherever you are. um If there's anything else you want to say about Simcoe

County for Palestine. Well, one thing I'll just mention about Simcoe County for Palestine,

it's a great group. um It's been active for over two years now and I remember when I

first started to get involved, like I didn't really see the value of organizing in a smaller

city. Like I thought, well, what's the point? I'll just go to Toronto. That was my mentality.

But actually you could have a big impact because em the population is smaller. like proportionally,

I guess you could have a big impact. I was really inspired by a lot of the young people

in our group. who really were powerhouses and really helped spearhead a lot of things.

um We do get a lot of detractors. Like I think that if you go to an event in Toronto, there's

a lot more strength in numbers. don't get, there's detractors, but you don't get quite

as many. I think that in a place like this, all the racists come out and they're very

comfortable being racist. We get a lot of people saying, go back to your country. You know,

they give you the finger. If you go on, um you know, Facebook groups like uh very concerned

citizens, like all the racists are out there. Like I, I'm sorry to say, you know, there's

a lot of hatred and a lot of uh very, very damaging um language and assertions that they

make. But I think that it's very important to keep pushing in a place like this. And I have

a unique position because I am a doctor. And I think that most people have respect for

what a doctor says, not always. Not that I'm saying that every doctor deserves, but

I think that having that position, there's a privilege that comes with it. And people...

will usually take you seriously. So, you know, I can just picture a conversation like,

sometimes I'll be at an event and maybe have a Palestinian flag or a sign and you can see

a woman like grabbing her kid and taking us away or like, and, you know, there've been

a couple events where we'll have the flag and they'll like give us the finger or say F off

or something. A lot of times they'll have kids in the car. And I mean, you know, I can

just picture a conversation like, mommy, what was that? What was that lady doing? She's

a terrorist. Yeah, but she's a doctor. You know what I mean? And I think it's like, it's important

for us as professionals to advocate, to speak the truth and to widen that Overton window

so that, you know, everybody believes that um injustice and liberation. is a wrap on

another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big

thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Helu-Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is

an independent production operated cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter at BPofDisruption.

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