Kevin Schafer and Evan Garcia dive deep into the galaxy far, far away as they chat about "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith" in the latest installment of Systematic Geekology’s Summer Drive-In series. Right off the bat, they tackle the film's heavy themes, particularly Anakin's heartbreaking transformation into Darth Vader and the resulting chaos of Order 66. They reminisce about their own experiences watching the film back in 2005, sharing how that dark ending left them feeling like they’d just exited a rollercoaster ride—thrilled yet bummed that the saga seemed to be wrapping up. With a mix of nostalgia and humor, the duo reflects on the significance of key characters like Padmé and Palpatine, and how their influences shaped Anakin’s fate. As they banter about the film’s iconic moments, they also touch on the evolution of fandom, making this episode a delightful blend of critical analysis and light-hearted geekery—perfect for any Star Wars enthusiast!
The podcast dives headfirst into the epic saga that is Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, and it does so with a delightful mix of nostalgia and witty banter. Kevin and Evan, the dynamic duo hosting this geeky escapade, kick things off by reflecting on their first experiences watching the film back in 2005. Kevin recalls the bittersweet feeling of leaving the theater, grappling with the idea that Star Wars might be coming to an end. Evan joins in, sharing his own sense of loss and satisfaction, particularly regarding the film’s darker themes and emotional weight. They explore the film's pivotal moments, notably Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader, while also dishing out some light-hearted critiques of the dialogue that, let’s face it, can be a bit cringeworthy at times.
As they dissect the film, Kevin and Evan delve into the deeper themes of manipulation and the relationships that shape Anakin’s tragic arc. They shine a spotlight on characters like Padme and Palpatine, discussing how their influences drive Anakin to his fateful choices. The conversation flows smoothly, with a mix of fond recollections about the prequel era, the sheer volume of merchandise that dominated their childhoods, and the evolution of the Star Wars fandom over the years. They touch on the toxic aspects of fan culture, especially how it affected actors like Ahmed Best, showcasing their commitment to fostering a healthier dialogue among fans. The episode is a rich tapestry of nostalgia, critique, and a love for a galaxy far, far away.
In closing, Kevin and Evan ponder what the future holds for Star Wars discussions, hinting at a more in-depth dive into the prequels to come. They leave listeners with a sense of camaraderie, embracing the shared love of a franchise that has shaped their lives, while encouraging them to reflect on their own experiences and feelings about the series. It’s a captivating blend of humor, insight, and geek culture that makes for an engaging listen that any Star Wars fan would appreciate.
Takeaways:
Kevin and Evan reflect on how watching 'Revenge of the Sith' in theaters felt like a bittersweet goodbye to the Star Wars saga back in 2005, leaving them both nostalgic and bummed about the franchise's apparent end.
The duo discusses the significance of Padmé and Palpatine's roles in Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader, highlighting how their influences shaped his choices throughout the film.
They express their mutual love for the epic lightsaber duels in 'Revenge of the Sith', emphasizing how the emotional weight behind these battles resonates with fans old and new.
Evan recalls the heart-wrenching Order 66 scene, noting how it encapsulates the betrayal felt by the Jedi and remains a powerful moment in the saga, supported by John Williams' iconic score.
Kevin and Evan dive into the dialogue of the film, often humorous yet cringeworthy, showcasing how George Lucas' writing style has been a topic of both affection and critique among fans.
The conversation touches on the evolution of Star Wars fandom, with a nod to the toxic elements that have persisted through the years, contrasting it with their passion for celebrating the franchise.
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Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.
Transcripts
Kevin Schaefer:
Would you survive order 66? Or would you not make it out of the Jedi Temple if you were a young Padawan? This is systematic geekology. We are the priests of the geeks.
And if you couldn't tell from that intro, we are going to be talking about Star Wars Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith. This is part of our summer drive in series. So this is a bonus series we do where we do kind of like just quick hits on movies we love.
And the theme this year is prequels. So of course we have to do a Star wars prequel in here. And who better to talk about this with than a couple Star wars nerds here?
The question is, will we.
Evan Garcia:
Will.
Kevin Schaefer:
Will we be able to keep this to 20 minutes? We'll see. But. But I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaefer, and I am here with fellow geekologist Evan Garcia. Evan, how are you today?
Evan Garcia:
Diwana Wonga Daiwan.
Kevin Schaefer:
Oh, and dude, quick note. I took my niece and nephew to see Mandalorian and Grogu yesterday. They loved it, especially my nephew. Like, like, my niece was like, I mean, I. To be.
You know, I was wondering how she. She still enjoyed it, but, like, you know, it's not like there are characters in there she loves as much, but, like, my nephew was like, all in.
So it was pretty cool.
Evan Garcia:
But, yeah, that's the best.
Kevin Schaefer:
It. It was cool for their first Star wars movie in theaters. Like, yeah, it was a blast. But yeah, good stuff. So awesome. Awesome.
Well, we don't need to do too much intro here. You know, if you're listening, you. You can check out the show notes for a full list of the series. But.
And, you know, send us to your ideas for what we want to cover down the road for another drive in series, but let's get right into it.
you first saw it way back in:
Evan Garcia:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be honest, I remember walking out of the theater really bummed because I was like, damn, Star wars is over. Because we.
I didn't know that there was going to be Clone Wars. We didn't know that there was going to be any sequels. We didn't know that. I was.
I was excited because I liked the movie, but I was really depressed about it. I was just like, oh, no.
Kevin Schaefer:
oint. I mean, this is back in:
Like, you know that Revenge of the Sith is going to end on a dark note because this is about the birth of Darth Vader and the formation of the Empire. And I remember too, Like, I. So I saw it multiple times. I mean, I was in fifth grade. I had my. Oh, I had my Darth Vader voice changer.
Do you remember that one?
Evan Garcia:
Yes, dude.
Kevin Schaefer:
Dude, I still have it. And so I gave it to my niece and nephew. Like, they play with it all the time. But.
But yeah, like, you know, I. I was elated, but I remember my grandfather took me one of the times and he was like, yeah, that was really dark. You know, Like, I mean. And it does. I mean, talk about a dour note. This ends on. And yeah, no, that.
That's a big part of where we were at that time was, whoa, is this really the end? Is this the last movie we're gonna get? Because, I mean, it's great, but it's also. Dang. That ends on a.
Even though we know where the story goes from that point on, this is the end of the prequels. But. And we know it's going to. You know, Luke is. And Leia are gonna save the day eventually.
But still, we were not guaranteed another Star wars movie or. Or a series or anything like that. So this was. Yeah, but. But what else about it? Like, so, yeah, I mean, definitely dark on that note.
What else made you feel in one way or another, just like your general feelings and your reaction?
Evan Garcia:
I was, I was, I was very satisfied. The only thing I wasn't was I thought we were gonna see Darth Vader in the suit kill Jedi. I remember just like feeling that. That should be a thing.
Yeah, we technically got him, but he was the blue lightsaber and his. A sith eye. So I was just like, eh. I wanted to see the.
The suited up Vader annihilating Jedi, which we later see in some comics and Spoiler alert and some shows that just came out recently. But. But no, overall I was. I was very satisfied with the movie. And like. And just like you, I saw it at least 12 times in the theater.
I just went over and over and over to see it with my friends and. And I was graduating high school from there at that point too, so I was.
It was a big time because, you know, like, it was the end of my high school career and it was at the end of Star wars, so. But yes, I liked It. I thought, no, no, yeah. We could get into some other criticisms later.
Kevin Schaefer:
But, yeah, no, and I think for me too, like, you know, so, you know, both of us grew up with the prequels. You're a little older than I am, but, like, we weren't of that, you know, kind of generation that was more nitpicky.
And, like, I had a lot of criticisms prequels, much like we are today with the sequel. So it's a fascinating, you know, the way Star wars affects generations. But for me, certainly, I was a kid growing up on the prequel, so I love them.
And. And Revenge of the Sith was no different for me. It was an even more personal aspect to it because.
So I was in fifth grade, and I remember the big, like, end of the year field trip for fifth graders wasn't wheelchair accessible for me. And we knew that, you know, well, going in, like, I mean, we talked with teachers, administrators, and, like, Because Amity was like.
I think it was like a weekend type thing and all that. And so we knew that, like, on end. And so my mom was like, okay, well, you, like, was she playing like you said, you know, at the beginning of school?
You're like, we'll do something else instead. So I got to go action figure shopping and saw Revenge. I was like, I mean, hey, I'm happy as could be. You know, I got a big deal.
Evan Garcia:
Back then, too, because they had tons of merchandise out for the Toys R Us. Like, half of the toy section was just for Revenge of the Sith stuff. Those were such a time. Those were the days.
Kevin Schaefer:
Oh, my gosh. I just sent you that meme the other day about, like, it was like, the comedian Sebastian Metasako. Yeah, yeah. Like, ranting about.
He's like, what happened? Because, like, he found, like, a. Like, a mini store in the mall that, like, he's like, no, it's so depressing.
Evan Garcia:
It's so depressing.
Kevin Schaefer:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, because Toys R Us was so essential to my childhood and absolutely. The merchandise of pre.
I. I would argue that the merchandise of the prequel era is the greatest era for Star wars merchandise. Like, is the original trilogy. They didn't even have all the figures ready when the movie. First movie came out.
So the kenner toys were such a big deal because kids were asking their parents to order them well after New Hope came out. But, like, we had an abundance. I mean, to the point where it was not just Obi Wan, Anakin Padme figures. It was like you had the entire Jedi Council.
There could be one character that's In a scene. No, my. Oh, like Revenge of the Sith, one of my favorites is. Okay, the kid who I. One of the only kids that Anakin doesn't kill, but one of the.
The clone trooper shoots in that. You know, I'm talking about when Bell Organa sees. Oh, yeah, you know, I'm talking about. Yes, exactly. And George Lucas is. I had that action figure.
I had everything. I mean, like, those. I mean, they were. It was just, you know, an abundance. But yeah, this was just so, you know, foundational to our childhood. So.
And, and it also. I think the big thing about Revenge of the Sith, you know, I talked. I said a minute ago about.
Yeah, there were a lot of snobby original trilogy fans that weren't down at the prequels, but the. More. More than the majority of them liked Revenge of the Sith much more than episodes one and two.
Like, it gave them that more visceral, like, emotional journey of Anakin becoming Darth Vader and the fallout between him and Obi Wan. I mean, no one can watch the lightsaber duels in this movie and be like, yeah, yeah, that was all right.
Evan Garcia:
You know, I remember thinking. I remember because I think it was a common lore back then that, that. That Steven Spielberg advised on the final duel or something like that.
And, and yeah, yeah, the. The. The fighting was good. It was just what we wanted to see, and it was as emotional, but, but, but, but.
But maybe to bring it to kind of modern day when. When it was re. Released last year in theaters, I took my son to watch it and, dude, it was awesome. He loved it. I loved it. However, I do. I've heard.
I've heard Josh say on. On. On a different episode that he thinks the pacing is kind of weird and the. And, and. And it has a. Like, I really forgot exactly how he.
How he described it. But when I saw it in theaters 20 years later, I kind of saw what he. I kind of noticed what he was talking about.
Like, these scenes, they don't really blend in that much. They're just things that happen and they kind of coincide with each other just because of the dialogue.
And I was like, dang, this has always been here, I think. And I'm just coming around to the criticism now.
And, and it doesn't lessen my idea from the movie because I still love the prequels, but not just because of. Because they were my Star wars quote unquote.
Kevin Schaefer:
It's.
Evan Garcia:
They are their own thing. They're very much in the style of old kind of serial films. And the choppiness of the scenes and of the weird dialogue, I think that's a feature and.
But not a bug that people think it is. So it was just weird to sit in the theater and be like, oh, now I see what people are talking about. Okay.
Kevin Schaefer:
No, that's very well put.
I mean, I think even for me, like, just because maybe it's because I've always had a knack for dialogue and like, I mean, I have a theater background. Like, I, I've written plays and stuff. So like, I.
Even as a fifth grader, like, as much as I loved it, I was still kind of laughing at the hokey dialogue. Especially when it's like, it's in weird ways.
It's almost like the hokey dialogue kind of fits better in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones because it's more consistent with the tone. This one is so epic and visceral and Shakespearean that it's like a little odd when you hear stuff like, Anakin, you're breaking my heart.
You know, like, I mean, and just like really on the nose type stuff like that. But it also, like you said, very much fits in with what Star wars is and always has been.
The other day, I mean, speaking of the re release last year, because I also, yeah, I went out with friends. It was great seeing it on the big screen again.
You know, you talked at the beginning of the episode about how when this came out, we were like, oh, is this the end of Star Wars? This is the last movie we're ever getting. And then to watch it in theaters last year, after the last 20, 20 years of everything, so much has changed.
And the context of the Clone wars changes everything.
Evan Garcia:
That's true because. Because that's the power of the cinema. Because I've seen the movie hundreds of times between DVDs and Disney Plus.
I don't know how many times I've seen it, but seeing it in the cinema with the big bright screen with a bunch of people, it was. It brought a perspective and it kind of flattened the history a bit, which was kind of weird. And you see it from a different perspective. But.
Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Schaefer:
Oh, and also one of my favorite, like, hokey lines, like right in the middle of the big, epic, epic lightsaber duel is Anakin. Yeah. From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. Like, I mean, that one just like made me laugh as a fifth grader.
Like, I mean, so, yes, like, bless George Lucas. Dialogue was never his gift, but he had many other, many other talents that make him such a great Storyteller, but that was not one of them.
Evan Garcia:
Sure.
Kevin Schaefer:
But. Yeah, yeah.
And I've been thinking, too, but I know we could easily do a long discussion on this one, but with our theme this year for systematic ecology being the faces behind us. So there's a lot of characters that really influence the events of this film and the trajectory of, you know, I mean, it.
You know, the core of the movie is, you know, Anakin's final transformation into Darth Vader, but it's all of the characters around him that and, you know, his attachments and everything that pushes him toward that. So I'm thinking, like, Padme and Palpatine being two of the most important characters here.
Evan Garcia:
Oh, for sure.
Kevin Schaefer:
Yeah. Like. Oh, for sure.
Evan Garcia:
Because they are the examples of, I would say, the coercion that put him in the place to make his decisions. You know what I mean? Palpatine was manipulating him the whole time. Padme was. I hate to say it, but she was almost enabling that behavior.
You know, she wouldn't say no to him. So it was kind of weird. The one face that was. That was very influential to him in this film is one that's not in the film. And it's Qui Gon.
Because I'm thinking, man, how much of a difference would have been if he was his master?
Kevin Schaefer:
You know, oh, it's the great what if? And I mean, it's why, you know, the theme Duel of the Fates exactly resonates.
Somebody has so much meaning because that duel, when Qui Gon dies, it is the duel debate. Because any other outcome would have changed the future of Star wars, because I always think of it as, like, Obi Wan.
It's not that he was a bad mentor to him, but he was always a better big brother to Anakin than he was. But also, he was thrust into the role of big brother and father simultaneously. And you can't really do that. Like.
Like, by the time he trains Luke, he's a father figure toward him, and he was ready for that. But with Anakin, they're so close in age, they're monitored by this brotherhood. He couldn't be big brother and father and that.
Whereas Qui Gon could very much have been their father figure, both to Anakin and Obi Wan, and it would have changed everything. So absolutely, Qui Gon is one of the key faces behind us, I think, in this movie.
Evan Garcia:
Yeah.
And it's cool that you break up, that you bring up Duel of the Fates, because I was watching an episode two the other day, and I was like, I had Completely. I had completely forgot that a Duel of the Fates plays when he's going. When Anakin's on the way to go to massacre the Sam people.
So, yeah, yeah, that is a pivotal time where his fate is decided. And that got me thinking, why wasn't it played in episode three if episode three was the one that really kind of sent them over, you know, So.
Kevin Schaefer:
I wonder that too. I mean, I think, like, it would have been. I mean, granted, I love the theme, you know, that they do for here. And I think it's more. It's so emotional.
I mean, the. The battle of the heroes and all that. Like, I mean, and the order 66 theme is. It's a good progression. For sure. It is.
So I think, like, it's connected the only. And I wish too, with the Obi Wan series, which should have been a movie, but that's a topic for another day. But.
But I wish they had used the Battle of the Heroes theme for the duel between, like that. Yeah, that would have been great. But. But alas, you know. But yeah, I mean. And yeah, there's just so many moments here.
I mean, I agree the pacing is like. It's weird. And it's also like, when you look at. Not much time passes here as well. And yet so much happens.
Yeah, that's another thing because, I mean, right at the beginning of the movie, you know, they're rescuing Palpatine on the outskirts of Coruscant, and.
And then, you know, we see Anakin and Obi Wan's final goodbye before Obi Wan goes to fight Grievous, Anakin's having the dream, the nightmares, and Padme's pregnant. And then. But it just escalates so much from that point on. But again, I could.
Going back to Clone wars for a sec, it's like, oh, the Clone wars lore really expanded on all that to make it work better because you see all these events in motion here, and it's like, wait, how did this happen? How does that happen? And then when you see Clone wars, especially the final season, all of it really connects well, so it's cool to see.
But now, granted, I would still. I. I can't believe that we're 20 years more than 20 years away.
Divorce from Revenge of the Sith, initial release, and we still haven't gotten extended editions of the prequels. Like, I just.
Evan Garcia:
I want that kind of.
Kevin Schaefer:
But I want that. But I'm talking. I want the four hour cut of Revenge of the Sith.
Evan Garcia:
The. I want the. I want the Topher Grace Cut.
Kevin Schaefer:
That would be awesome.
Evan Garcia:
Because that's so dude hyped, you know.
Kevin Schaefer:
Dude, why isn't Topher Grace like editing every movie? Because you've seen those like things. Yeah, I mean, I mean I guess he could be.
Evan Garcia:
And we just don't know.
Kevin Schaefer:
Maybe.
Evan Garcia:
No, I don't know.
Kevin Schaefer:
But yeah, but there's so much we could talk about more.
Evan Garcia:
Order 66 was so.
Kevin Schaefer:
Yes.
Evan Garcia:
Effective though. Like yeah, I remember being like, oh damn. Like this is how it goes down. Okay.
Kevin Schaefer:
Yeah, it's like you know from the beginning, I mean like, you know what the outcome is going to be when you go in this movie. It's like, okay, he's going to become Darth Vader, he starts hunting down the Jedi.
But to see it be oh this massive clones that kind of like flip on them, you know, that immediately flip.
Evan Garcia:
And it's pretty genius.
Kevin Schaefer:
All the Jedi feel that betrayal. Oh that montage sequence is just, just like I said, heartbreaking and so visceral. And the John Williams score just hits you on every level.
But yeah, awesome. Well Evan, anything else?
I know again we could go on for hours about this one, but yeah, the Drive in series, these are short and fun but any other final notes you want to say about just reflecting on Revenge of the Sith all these years later?
Evan Garcia:
I thought about, I thought about Jar Jar and how, how his non placement in this film is indicative of a fandom and sometimes I complain because I'm so in the weeds with the fandom online is that I think the atoxic fandom quote unquote that it's a fairly new thing and it's not. It's always been there. It almost ruined Ahmed best life and it's always there.
And it was kind of a lesson that I had to learn of, you know, like there's nothing new under the sun and there's no need to get outraged over it and stuff like that. So that's just some perspective that I had kind of recently.
Kevin Schaefer:
So I'm glad you brought that up too. I mean. Oh absolutely. The like toxic fan culture that literally, yeah pushed and I'm so glad I'm at best like worked through that.
And I mean he's like, yeah, just actually just a month ago he was at my local comic shop signing on every gobble day. It was so cool. And like, yeah, I mean now he's playing not just Jar Jar, but another Star wars character playing it. Like how cool is that too?
He plays, he plays a badass Jedi who survived Order 66 and rescued Grogu I love that he's had this redemption. But at the same time, that's the sad thing about. Yeah, Nerd history repeating itself is that toxic fan culture is not gone away. And hopefully that's.
I know at Systematic Ecology we try to really counteract that and we celebrate each other's fandoms and voices and we want to, you know, even when we disagree, we want to, you know, lift everyone's opinions and have healthy dialogue. So. Yeah, but. Awesome. Well, Evan, the. The closing question for this series is if you could have any flavored tea or lemonade to bring to the movie.
What would. What would be your choice?
Evan Garcia:
What's the.
Kevin Schaefer:
I know it's a very. It's a very specific.
Evan Garcia:
I would do a mix of blue milk and a raspberry tea because that sounds kind of cool.
Kevin Schaefer:
Oh, I like it. I like it. I have kind of a cop out answer.
I said pink on the last one I recorded with Joshua, but my cop out answer is like, I'm diabetic, so I don't drink tea or lemonade. So I'm just bringing a diet Coke. So I'm gonna go with that going forward. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Awesome. Well, Evan, this has been a blast.
We will definitely. We gotta do like a full on prequel, like deep dive, like, like a reflection. So this is almost like a teaser for that.
We'll make that happen eventually. But. But in the meantime, for our listeners out there, go check out the rest of the series again. Click on the show notes.
You can find the whole catalog there. And we'd love to hear from you on social media. Evan is the one running all the memes on social media, so he does a wonderful job with those.
So check those out. But thank. Oh yes. Always. Well, thank you all for tuning in today. Evan, this was great.
And for everyone out there, remember, we are all a chosen people. A kingdom of priests. May the force be with you. Don't.
