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Choosing Kin | Part 3: Embracing New Family Dynamics with Danika
"Choosing Kin" a father daughter adoption story Episode 326th January 2024 • Journey With Care • CareImpact
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Description

Johan concludes his candid conversation with his adopted adult daughter, Danika. They reflect on her transition into their family, navigating her marriage, and the complexities of her relationship with her biological father. Danika speaks on finding her place within the family dynamic and navigating new traditions. They delve into the significance of spiritual adoption and the importance of embracing a sense of belonging and support within the church community. The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections and hopes for the future and the ongoing growth and experiences shared within their family dynamic.

Timestamps

[00:00] Wedding Day and Isle Walks

[05:28] Navigating first year of marriage with support.

[08:08] Grateful for support and love on wedding day.

[10:24] Excited for firsts, forming new holiday traditions.

[15:00] Learning to have casual, meaningful conversations.

[19:15] Father-daughter relationship shapes understanding of God.

[25:20] Addressing family dynamics and showing respect through inclusion.

[32:15] Encouraging exploration of disconnected family relationships

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Editing and production by Johan Heinrichs: arkpodcasts.ca

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Transcripts

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What does loving your neighbor actually look like? This

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is journey with care, where curious Canadians get inspired to

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love others well through real life stories and honest

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conversations.

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All right, we are back for our third episode in this

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series with my adopted daughter, Danica. The first

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episode, we talked a little bit about your story growing up, what it was

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like living with your dad, who suffers with PTSD,

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how that's affected you as a child, also just your school and

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home situation and how you transitioned into Bible college. And

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then for that second episode, we talked about from Bible

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college to the internship into joining our

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family. And that's where we kind of ended off, where I got to walk you

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down the aisle at your wedding, and you have.

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Unofficially, I'm an undocumented daughter. Yeah,

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that's it. So now we're going to go into that a little

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bit. What it's like navigating being an adult,

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adopted into a family, both from my perspective and

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from your perspective. Yeah. First off, some of our listeners might be

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asking, well, what do your parents think about

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you being adopted into a family? Well, my

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dad's the easy answer. He doesn't know. And it

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happened. And because it was so natural, I kind

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of neglected to let my mom fully know about

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it until, like a month before the wedding.

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And she took it well. It was

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tricky, but she just wanted to know you guys

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and get to know a little bit more about how it happened. And so she

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and I have had several conversations about it, and she's really thankful

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for it because she's walked me through it, and

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she's seen the pain. She's watched it, and so she's really grateful

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and very thankful that I have this and that God's

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answered that prayer for me, because it's just like she's been there the nights that

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I've just absolutely been wrecked and was really grateful,

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especially because I had this when my dad did what he did, because

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it's allowing me to heal. And so after we had

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a conversation and explained it, it's good. And right before the wedding, I

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think we sat down with your mom for maybe a lunch or something

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because she's like, I want to know who's walking my daughter down the aisle.

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That was interesting. Yeah. My mom, she

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also has people that are like family to her, too, so she really gets that

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understanding and has said, sometimes family's blood and sometimes

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family's just who you pick and who the Lord gives to you. So

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my sister is like, cool. Have they noticed any difference in you

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since you've gotten married? Yes. They're both really

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thankful for Jaden. I mean, it's helped. And they've

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just noticed more confidence and more. I know who I am,

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and I'm not ashamed of it anymore. And that they've just noticed

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an increase in just that. I'm happy. We live a province away

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now. It's like, it's not just because I'm sad and don't want to talk, but

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it's actually just because I'm just doing things that take up my time.

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And it's been really good, and they're really excited for me.

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Okay, so how long have you been married now? How long has it been? We

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got married July 30, 2022. So a

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year and like a half, I think. So you're still technically

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newlyweds, I would say. Technically, we're newlyweds, yeah. We're coming up on our

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second year this July. Again. You felt like

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family before then? Part of our household. I got to walk you down the aisle

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at your wedding. Well, I think on the topic of being walked down

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the aisle, because we didn't really talk about that in

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depth. What was it like on your guys'end after

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that, having that being solidified for you and your

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wife? Yeah, that's something that we still navigate. I mean, my

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wife has taken a long time, and she's getting way better at this.

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And I am, too. Like, when people ask us about our lives, about our

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jobs, how many kids do you have? The answer for

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the last. Well, I guess 13 years has always been, oh, we have

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three kids, but now we're just getting used to. And I think it's

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becoming way more common for us to say, yeah, we have four kids. And

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then they ask what their ages are. And that's always interesting because

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when we get to, our eldest is 24 years old.

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Yeah. And they're like, but how old are you?

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It's complicated. Right. That's always the answer. It's

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always the answer. But we are proud to say we have four

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kids, and we are proud to have you as part of our

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journey and our story. It's brought excitement to our lives.

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Even the fact that you're going into social work, it's another

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child that we can be proud of for what she's accomplishing. And, of

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course, having our children and our daughter, especially

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having a big sister, it's been a huge blessing.

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We talk about how he brings the lonely into families, but he

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also brings the lonely for the family, I believe.

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And that's what has been you coming into our family. It was

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a huge blessing for us. And not just for you. It's not a one sided

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thing, because he knows what we needed. He knows what our daughter needed, and he

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knows what you needed. Yeah. It's wild to think going through

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it when we first met to now, it's just like, I wouldn't have.

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Even if someone told me that was going to happen, I'd be like, no.

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And now we're here. And so it's been good. And I think

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it was really helpful being a newlywed and having a male figure

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in my life and having that father figure, because it's like, I can talk to

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you as, like, parents and be like, is this normal in marriage or having help

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navigating that first year? Because no matter how stubborn you want

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to be, the first year is going to be hard. And honestly, I couldn't

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imagine trying to go through the first year without you guys. It felt like I

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had a safe place in a house. So if things were going great,

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we all celebrated. If things weren't, we were able to give you a call and

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be there. And coming over to do laundry all the time is fun. Just

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do laundry and we just all hang out. And then when it's done, we're like,

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hey, bye. Yeah, I mean, you guys come over every week, which is always a

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nice treat for us, too. I'm going to take us back to your

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wedding day. So I walked you up the aisle. I honestly felt

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very proud of you and Jayden because we love Jaden

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and I've known his family since I was younger, so I've

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seen Jaden growing up, which is kind of cool to see our adopted daughter

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marrying this kid that I grew up. And we're great friends with their family. We

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love them very much. They very much feel like our family as well. I

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was excited even for, as a husband, going into the family,

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there's always that desire that they have in laws as well that they can connect

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with. And that's something that he would have been lacking, I think,

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if we wouldn't have stepped in. Not to say we're the saviors or

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the answer to all the prayers and everything that he hoped for,

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but we're excited for Jayden to have that. Yeah, I was really excited

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about that, too. I'm glad you brought that up because it's know someone. Much has

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happened since we got married that it's easy to forget all the good stuff that's

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come out of it. And it's really good that he gets to have that, because

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I know early on when we're talking and stuff, I'm like, you know, if we

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do get married, you're not going to have in laws on my side. You don't

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get to experience that. And then sometimes it feels like

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the Lord's, like, chokes on you. And it was a good joke. I just

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wonder what he would have been like with me saying that. He's

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like. And we're like, I don't know, a few months away

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from that happening. And so it's just been really good to see that

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and see, because he is really close with you guys, too, and it's fun to

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see him bonding with you guys. We might talk about last episode

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a bit, but what was that like for you to have me walk you down

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the aisle? It helped a lot with the grief. I don't

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know what it would have been like because I don't

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love being the center of attention and everyone looking. At me, and that's

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what a wedding generally is. I took a lot of stress

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off, honestly, because it's like I wasn't the only one being looked at, which is

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nice. It's hard to explain because it was just like one of those moments, because

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you're walking me down the aisle and I'm like, this is fantastic. And then I'm

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getting married, and it's like this big day full of emotions. But I remember,

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I really think, looking back on the wedding, I'm really happy that happened because it

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doesn't feel like I had that gap. And it

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really helped because then I could see you guys sitting at a table together, and

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I knew that my dad was there, and so it really helped fill that

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void. Not only did I feel really loved by you guys, I really felt loved

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by God and super thankful and also just I needed it. And

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I think it made the wedding day overall more enjoyable for me

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because it was one less gap on

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my side that was open and

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noticeable. And it was really nice to have that because I feel like that was

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the most important gap for me to have filled. Do you recall anything that

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I said to you at the wedding? Because I honestly don't remember if I said

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anything to you. You did. I do remember that because you're like,

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all right, you ready? And I was like, yes. And before we

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left the room where. I was hiding the room, we

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were outside. It was very hot. We got engaged on

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the coldest day of the year and got married on the hottest day of the

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year. 40 degrees outside or something. Yeah, 40 degrees

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below when we got engaged. Welcome to Winnipeg. Yeah, welcome to

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Winnipeg. True Winnipeg or no, you did say,

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like, I'm not here to replace your dad, and I know I never would

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replace him for you. And you were just. I really hope that

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you said something like, the simple act

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would be a blessing to me. And so it was something along those lines. So

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you did say something to me. Oh, good job. Pat on my back. Sounds good

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to me. Pat on your back. Yeah. So, like we said, you guys are

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over every week doing laundry, just part of the family, eating lots of

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meals together, doing Christmas together. I know that first Christmas.

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Let's talk about that first Christmas, maybe. I know that

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Christmas is hard for you, and it is with a lot of kids that grew

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up with family difficulties. So we invited you into our Christmas

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gathering. Obviously, we didn't really need to invite you. It was kind of a given.

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Although I think that first you needed to be invited. The first year

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was. I think that is one of the challenges, too, is the firsts

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is like, oh, first Easter, we need to invite you. But then

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the second one, it's fine. But I was really excited because

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I don't know why I didn't expect it, but I didn't.

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And it was fun. The first Christmas we were

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here till like, 02:00 a.m. It was last year. Us girls all like

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matching pajamas, and you guys gifted us our

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first Christmas ornament for our tree is like a married couple. And it was just

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really cool just getting to come alongside into your guys'traditions. And build some

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new traditions because you guys have joined the family, right? Like, even our

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breakfast dish that we started, everybody loves it. Yeah, we have

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that skillet meal. And then I think it's kind of becoming a

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tradition that we just end up watching some sort of funny movie altogether. It's

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just this year we were a lot more responsible with what time we started it.

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Yes, it was great that first Christmas. I think it was really fun

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getting to say up that lake. So I think it's just like we were all

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just enjoying it so much. And I remember, oh, man, the kids were

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just all five of us as kids. We were just

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amped all day. We were acting like we were not the

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ages we were, but it was really good. And we have a lot of

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really good memories from that first Christmas. And of course, this one, too.

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It helps even just being invited into it. I just

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want to say for people out there, even if you don't feel like you're being

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directed to adopt an adult, even just having someone

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being like a close family friend invite them to family events and

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things, it might be weird at first, but people won't come up and

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say to you, like, I don't have anyone, can I come to your Christmas?

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That's not common. And so just encourage that. If you know

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people that you think or they have told you that holidays are hard,

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include them. Everyone needs it. And for me,

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I am very thankful that I have that added level that it is

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family. And so we get to build those new traditions and

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incorporate your guys'traditions. And it's really good

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now, along with any family dynamics, not everything is beautiful

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and rosy all the time. No. We look forward to having you guys over

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every week as kids. Like anything. Like sometimes

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having people over, it's sometimes uncomfortable because it disrupts.

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Sometimes just chilling. Some nights where, okay,

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they need to sit and have conversations. Yeah, but that's

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just part of life. That is part of life. No, but it's any family.

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It's challenging. There's going to be nights as parents that you're going to be like,

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you want to chill. I would say in the last six months, that challenge

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just started reducing. Now we just sometimes just come over and we just do our

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own thing. Yeah. It feels like there were some expectations in the first

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little while to really set those family dynamics. Okay,

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Jaden and Danica are coming over. We need to make sure we set time

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aside to have conversations. And that's good. Yeah, you got to

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have that. But it feels like it's starting to become natural. Now

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that you are just family, you can walk through the door

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and just hang out and be who you are. Yeah. It's

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also challenging for us sometimes, like coming every Monday I have a bipret

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complacent Mondays, or sometimes we'll come on a Tuesday evening and it's just like,

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I'm tired. And sometimes our youngest son is really

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loud. Oh, yeah. Sometimes

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I love it about him. And then on some days I'm just

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like, I would say just any normal family dynamic. It's

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just the biggest challenge is having that feeling

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of it being someone that's not your family member coming over. It takes a while

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for that to go away, even for us to feel like you guys weren't hosting

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us. It took me a while to just go into your fridge and grab food

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without asking first. And now I come over and I. Just grab food,

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which is fun to see that development. Right? It

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feels awkward at first. It's all new. You're bringing an

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adult, adopting an adult into your family. You're new coming

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into someone else's household who were a couple of years ago

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just acquaintances, and all of a sudden, you're part of a family.

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It's such a strange dynamic, transitioning. Yeah, it is. It's not just

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like, oh, we're family. As much as we said, it felt really natural, like the

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Lord putting it together. It still means that there's bumps.

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I don't know. Have we had a family conflict yet? I would just

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say just our personal issues that all come up. We discuss them, then walk

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through them as a family should. But I don't think we've had.

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No, we haven't had any drama, which is very strange for

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me with my side of the family. Conflict was

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definitely there. And so I think that's been a really big strange

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challenge for me. At first I'm like, did I talk too much? Or like,

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oh, did they have the energy for that conversation? It's taken me

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a long time to not overthink how I did coming

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over, but now it's like, I just come over and we'll just talk

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about, I think, the other night. I'm just able to casually tell you on Chris's

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day. I'm like, oh, yeah, I miss my dad right now. And you're like, well,

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yeah, understandable. And then we just moved on. But it's like, yeah, that was,

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like, a big challenge for me, learning what family is again, also,

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like, finding where my place is in the dynamic. Yeah. Because

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there are some differences, too. I'm not going to

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have the same hugs as I

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would. Right? Yeah, there's still boundaries, especially you coming in

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as an adult. Yeah. And also, I'm not the biggest hugger anyways.

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But, no, we have that boundary. And then I think it was a little challenging

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at first between me and the oldest, because now I'm the oldest, but they've been

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the oldest. So that's a fun dynamic because it's like

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if we're playing a board game or doing something at the table,

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we will both do something like, no, you can't do that right now. We just

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sit there and it's like, but he can't boss me around because I am older

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than him and I will not let him. He needs that humbling, though. I humble

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him. I humble him. But it's been really good. I think the biggest challenge is

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just having that relaxed feeling coming.

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I don't know if that's a word I think would be good to explain it.

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I don't know about you, where it feels like you're not just safe

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as an individual, but you're safe coming into a house

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feeling like you're part of the house. Well, I actually feel

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like a kid again. And maybe sometimes as an adult,

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maybe I should be like, oh, should I ask if we can have a deep

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conversation right now? But I feel more welcome just to sit down and be like,

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hey, can I talk to you about this? And then you guys being there,

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how do you guys feel about that with managing, having an adult

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with trauma and having some of harder emotional

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conversations with me? I think when we use the word

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adoption, we know we're not bringing in a stranger into the house

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anymore. So with adoption comes all those hard

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conversations, and we need to be open to that. And

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we are happy to hear those conversations, because when you open

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up, it means that we are trusted and we are your

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family, and we can contribute to that part of you

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which we didn't have with you growing up. That's true. Right.

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So we're obviously happy to have those conversations, the difficult

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ones. There are still those dynamics where I

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could take my daughter Caitlin out to a movie and a

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coffee, but that would be awkward for me to do that with you. Oh, yeah,

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no, we don't do that. We don't do that. That's, like a really

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firm. And I think that would be a

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question that I wouldn't be surprised if listeners would want to ask. It's like

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there are gaps in it. Yeah, you've stepped into my life in this

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role, but there's gaps that you would. Don't take this

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personally. You are never going to be able to fulfill. There are certain things

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that in not having my earthly dad in my life that I don't get

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to have. I'm glad this came up because recently

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I finally feel like some of the father wounds have healed enough that I've

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been able to start talking to God about it. Because you weren't able to

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relate to him as a father for the long time. No,

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I wouldn't even say I relate to him as a father now. I think I'm

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just starting. It's like I'm scratching the surface. But

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I had a really good healing encounter with him about a month

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ago, and I felt like he asked me, what is the

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biggest thing you missed about your dad? And I was like, I don't want to

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talk about this. And then I did. I

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felt like God showed me a picture of sitting in that

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garage. I wasn't a kid. And instead of it being my dad, he was there.

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And in it, I feel like I finally realized the

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thing that I miss the most about my dad is

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because I felt like a weirdo. And I misfit and misunderstood most of my life

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as a kid. He never made me feel that way.

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And he always really championed me in that and

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helped me not to change myself, to fit in. And

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I realized it was that delight I missed and it was that

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delight that I get from you guys. In this sense, you're like, I'm proud of

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you. Look at you guys go. But it's not the same. Not to sound

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mean, but it'll never be the same with the emotional boundaries. It

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shouldn't be because that's a big emotion

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between a father and a daughter. And then in

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that, I was able to finally realize that that

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delight that my dad used to have is what the Lord has with me.

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And I wouldn't have been able to do that if I hadn't had

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someone in my life that I can have the things that is

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appropriate in this dynamic, in this relationship, within

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the boundaries, to be able to explore the

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pieces that you're not able to with the Lord and to go to him for

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that. And I think that's been really vital and important. When there's

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a challenge where it's like, I don't think this is something that I can go

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to him about, or is like, I'll go talk to your wife about it,

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or I'll go talk to the Lord about it. But I'm just starting to

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see that I'm more open to even starting

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to talk about God being my father. And so it's been

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very interesting in the last couple of months having that and just the change it's

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had for me in my relationship and my walk with him. You said

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there are obviously things that I would never be able to fulfill

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as an adoptive dad. So let's go there a little bit.

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This poses a scenario. What if your dad, all of a sudden his mind

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shifts and his heart shifts, he becomes a Christian

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and he steps back into your life, he seeks you out,

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wants reconciliation. What would that scenario be like for you?

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At first and where I'm at now, I would

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reconcile with him to the point that he's forgiven and

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knows that I'm excited for him. And it's really

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cool to see God working in his life that way. But

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I wouldn't want to reconcile with him as a father, and I don't think I'd

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be able to. He missed so much of my

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life and he's missed so many important things

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that we can't redo, we can't recreate it.

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And for the listeners, it's going to sound really blunt, but

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I don't really want him back in my life now. I really enjoy being a

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part of this family and this dynamic, and from

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what I know of him, I don't think he'd be okay with it.

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And if he's not going to be okay with it, then it's like, no, thanks.

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I'm married now, and it's like, one day we'll have kids. I have to think

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about them as well. And just at this point, I'd be

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really happy for him, and I think I'd be open to

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being friends. I wouldn't necessarily not be like, never

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talk to me again. But I don't think that father daughter

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relationship right now, I don't really want it because I've

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gone so long without it. And I've grieved

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him. I've gone through living grief. He's still alive, but I've grieved

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him as if he's not. And so it would be

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really difficult even just to go and have a cup of coffee. And

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I don't know if I'd want to even talk to him about the ways he

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has hurt me. So for where I'm at right now and just like,

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having you guys, I'm like, I don't need it. And of course I want

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him to become a Christian. I want to see him healed. And I also

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know for myself I might never be ready to have him again in

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my life that way. And I think something I'm starting to reconcile

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with me is like, that's okay. I can still want him to be a Christian

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and to be healed, but also accept the fact that he's

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not really my dad in that relationship

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sense. So that's currently where I'm at with it.

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And I feel like that would just be my response in the beginning is like,

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you're not my dad, and I need to get to know you and you

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need to get to know me. And so I think it would be more of

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a friendship dynamic that would come out. I don't even know because I don't know

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him without any PTSD. Like, if he was completely healed, he'd be a

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complete stranger to me. It would be weird. So, yeah, that's where

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I'm at with it currently. I mean, I'm sure a lot of our

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listeners all have a bunch of different thoughts on what you just

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said, and that's fine. They're not in your situation.

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No. And we have some of the tough, difficult

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conversations on this podcast, and not everything is always rosy,

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even the way we think, right? But like you said, you hope

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for restoration. You hope he finds Christ, because that's

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where he's going to find ultimate fulfillment. That's

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where he's going to find healing. But, I mean, scripture talks about leaving and

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cleaving from your parents, and you have a spouse now, too, right?

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Your life has shifted and changed. So the dynamics are just.

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It's complicated. And, yeah, I'm sure there will be listeners that

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they're like, oh, maybe you could have a father relationship. I'm like,

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I'd just be fine being friends with him, honestly, just to talk to him

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every once in a while. But I've got the Lord and I have your guys'family,

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and I think that just really shows how

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life changing and how vital it was to be able to be

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adopted into a family in this way. And just to see the Lord walk that

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out where it's like, no, I would rather

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continue to pour into my siblings now and you guys as my

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parents. And if my dad can't accept that, then I think my answer would be

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different. But that's where I'm at with it currently, and everyone's

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different, and I don't know what the Lord's going to do with

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him. He might become a Christian and get radically saved and then just

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decide to not contact me out of love,

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just to not put me through that difficult situation and

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those difficult conversations. I'm going to shift the conversation

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a little bit here because we're still early on in this journey.

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You've officially been adopted for about a year and a half.

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Undocumented. Yeah, undocumented. We know you still have

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relationship with your mom and your sister,

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and, like, as adopted parents, we

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know you have someone else that you still call mom and another person you

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call sister. And we want to honor that. Have you found it

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difficult to be able to honor them in being adopted into another

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family? That's a really good question. The wedding has some

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dynamics that were tricky, and there's grace.

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But I think a way to show

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honor because it's early on. My mom hasn't been out to visit in Winnipeg

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since the wedding and an event that will be coming up that she

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probably will be here at the same time as when I do convocate with my

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degree. And I think it's part of that honoring is like having her over for

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a meal and letting her continue to get to know you guys and know that

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she's not necessarily a part of the family, but that she's not

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allowed to come and know you guys and that she can come in

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and still be my mom when I introduce her to

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mom. That'll be fun. Like, mom, meet mom.

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I'm sure you probably have trouble saying that, though. That's been a new thing that

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I've started referring to you guys as mom and dad. That's been a very recent

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thing, and it is hard. Well, especially seeing how

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you're one of my interns and I was always Johan. Yeah. I still

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mostly call you guys by your first names, but it's still early

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on. It's still early on, and I think it's more so where I refer to

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you guys as mom and dad is, like, with other people. And so

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the only time it gets really complicated is people that have known me before. They're

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like, what? I'm like, I thought your dad was like this. I'm like, okay,

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I need to get a good name for my tip for the other dad. But,

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yeah, no, I think part of honoring it is just like, if they're in Winnipeg

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or something, letting them know that they can come and connect with you guys, too,

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and get to see that dynamic and see that they're not being replaced. And my

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sister's like. She's like, cool. She's really great, and she's, like

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another person I really deeply admire. And I'm really proud of where she is

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and what she's done and just her journey through it, too. And so it

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was really nice when I first talked to her about it. She was like, no,

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I'm happy for you. And so just knowing that her and I just have

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this bond where we know that we're going to be sisters, and

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we also know that we are on two completely different directions in life and that

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we love each other, and that's enough. And so, yeah, I think that's just the

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biggest thing in honoring it, is just letting my family know that they're included and

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that they get to come and even just get to know you guys as friends

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and not feel that replacement thing. Yeah.

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Okay, let's have a theoretical question here. What do you

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see our dynamic looking like ten years from

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now? What I see

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is I've actually talked about this with a friend. In ten

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years, I'm for sure going to have at least one kid.

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Honestly, I'm not that old. But

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the idea of having grandkids earlier than expected.

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Right? Earlier than expected is kind of exciting. Yeah.

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No, it will be. You're not pregnant? No. As of this

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recording, can you imagine the announcement on the

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podcast today?

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Not pregnant? No. I think in ten years,

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what I see is my mom being like the grandmother, get to

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go and visit in Saskatchewan and have that really good memories of getting to

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be in the house that they're in and my mom

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being someone that they can talk to on video call and

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be like the person that I think my mom would be the best person to

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explain about my dad and in a really child

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friendly way, and I would trust her to do that. And I just honestly see

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it that my kids are going to have three sets

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of grandparents, basically. And I'm really excited for that because

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I thought my kids would only have the one set and then they would

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feel that gap and that lack, and instead they just get to feel more

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richness and more fullness. And so I really see it being like, not necessarily that

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my mom would be a part of the family, but I do eventually see her

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being friends with you guys and having a dynamic that there might be

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challenges and probably conflicts on that side, but I could really see from

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what I see now with the hearts and stuff, especially when kids get involved,

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I just really see it being very rich and very full

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and no gaps. It's going to be good, and it's going to be a really

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good testimony. And something that my kids get to inherit

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is that they're going to have three grandmas. And I

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think that's just going to be so cool to have three really awesome women in

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their lives that they can look up to. It'll be great for Jaden and I,

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too. We're going to have a lot of support. So if we need to go

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and have some time just to connect by ourselves, someone will

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take the kids. And so I'm really excited to watch that. I

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think that's what I'm most excited for in ten years, because my mom does desire

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friendship with you guys and knowing you and I know she did feel, like, accepted

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by you guys and included. And so I'm just really excited to see

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what God's going to do with that. And there is a generational

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blessing that starts with you being adopted in. Right,

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is those kids don't have to grow up not having the

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grandparents ten years from now,

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they will have grandparents from the day that they're born. I think it'll also

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be really cool because in ten years, I'm sure one of the sibs will be

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married. Maybe two, possibly all three, possibly,

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possibly. And who knows? We might even have cousins at

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that point or be close to having cousins. I'll just be really, just

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be beautiful and really rich and really just show God's goodness, honestly,

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because the only reason you can explain it is that this is something

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that God has done and it is good and it's for his glory.

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And like I said in the first episode, that's what got me through the hard

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stuff. It's just, I just need to love God and he's going to figure it

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out and it's going to glorify him. And in ten years, I think it's really

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going to be that. I know for me, when I

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think ten years from now, I got a big smile on my face, on

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the inside. When I think about ten years, I don't know, I think about the

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Bible verse, psalm 127. Sons are a

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heritage from the Lord and children a reward from him.

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So, I mean, your daughter, but eventually,

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probably there's some grandkids, maybe some grandsons in there, but I

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just feel like you are part of the reward the Lord has

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given to me. And ten years from now, I get to see more

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fruit of that and walking through more experiences with

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you, you and Jaden feeling more and more comfortable to call us

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mom and dad and Corey and I feeling more

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confident when we say we have four kids just going through

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those trials and those awesome times where we

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are just comfortable with that. We're just excited for the years to come

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and what the Lord is going to do through you guys as we get to

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see more fruit and see what the Lord works

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in a whole other couple that we can call children. And that's

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just a blessing to us. And it's kind of cool to have a son

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in law that's an engineer, too, so that's kind of neat. That is neat. Yeah.

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He is an engineer. We are polar opposites, but we work

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together so well just to end it off here, because I think you and I

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could talk about the family dynamic for hours, probably these last two

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episodes. What do we want to leave with out of this? I think the biggest

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thing, the whole purpose behind this podcast wasn't just for us to go down

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memory lane and get to talk about this, which was nice, but

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being able to highlight care impact, part of it's like talking

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about the heart issues, but also highlighting individuals that are hidden within the

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church. And I think, in my opinion,

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that there are many people who either have

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disconnected relationships with their parents or even

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grandparents, honestly, and are missing that. I

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just really want people to know that it's okay

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to explore that, especially when God's leading, because you

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can set the appropriate boundaries that work for you. And it's just a

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way, like you said, to bring more richness, not just to the lives of those

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that are being adopted and those that are coming in, but also

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to those who are doing the adopting. And so I just really would want to

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encourage listeners that it is scary and it's challenging, especially

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in the beginning. But it's worth it. But it's so worth it. And it was

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so life changing for me. And so not like, don't go ask

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people. Be like, do you have a dad or not? But

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I really want to put the spotlight on people who are fatherless or motherless

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or even those who just have lost grandparents, even

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if they were great. But you're just missing that gap and you really want to

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have that again. Don't be afraid to ask the Lord for it, and don't

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be afraid of the Lord moves you into a place that you get to do

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that for someone else. And I just think it's a beautiful thing to explore

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spiritual adoption and that stuff because the Bible talks about it

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and Romans would just pick up abandoned babies off the street.

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There you go, new kid. And so it's rich and it's

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full and it's scary, but I'm pretty sure that's a really good

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definition of God's sovereignty. It's rich and it's full and it's terrifying,

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but everything works out for his glory and for his goodness. And so let

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him put a spotlight on people that might have been told that this is

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inappropriate once they turn into an adult. But the good thing about adult children

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is talking about boundaries and stuff is a lot easier and it's good.

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I'm just going to end it there because that's a good bike drop.

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Thank you for joining another conversation on journey with care,

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where we inspire curious Canadians on their path of faith

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and living life with purpose in community. Journey with Care is an

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initiative of care impact, a canadian charity dedicated to

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connecting and equipping the whole church to journey well in community.

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You can visit their website at Careimpact CA or visit

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Journeywithcare CA to get more information on weekly episodes,

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journey with prayer, and details about our upcoming events and

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meetups. You can also leave us a message, share your thoughts,

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and connect with like minded individuals who are on their own journeys of

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faith and purpose. Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping

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these stories reach the community. Together we can explore ways to

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journey in a good way and always remember to stay.

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