On this week's Industrial Talk we're onsite at Distributech 22 and talking to Charlie Nobles, Vice President with Ubicquia, LLC about "Smart utilities and resilient grids". Get the answers to your "Utility" questions along with Charlie's unique insight on the “How” on this Industrial Talk interview!
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
utilities, pole, streetlights, industrial, coverage, people, charlie, cities, spotlighting, fast, jimmy stewart, leveraging, question, light, raleigh, conference, issue, city, lte networks, solutions
00:04
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots,
00:21
and let's go right that's right. You're listening to industrial talk the number one industrial related podcast in the universe. That's right, Charlie, don't don't don't even begin to question my. That's all day. That's all driven by data, believe it, I believe. And it is an ever expanding industrial ecosystem of professionals from around the world. It's quite a really quite a lot of mouthful, that are solving problems and making your life better. That's what they're all about. And we're broadcasting we're on site here at DistribuTECH 22. Dallas, Texas is the town. And it's great to see people milling about the place, and the slipping and tripping over technology everywhere. It's great. It's great to see this happening. Right, Charlie?
01:07
Sure. I love it.
01:09
To video conference, is the first one.
01:13
I went to another conference about a month, two months ago. I had to had to shave, clean up the hair.
01:22
You didn't have to look like Howard Hughes after years of being at the top of that Casino.
01:28
You slow hair product.
01:31
It's good to see everybody.
01:33
It is good. It just reminds me how much space is in the rearview mirror. Because I see so many people I've seen before over the years. And it's like reunion like a high school reunion.
01:45
Have you come across those people that you've only met virtually?
01:49
Yes. And the issue is, gosh, I thought you were taller. Or in my case. I thought you were taller. I'm not so,
01:57
so true. I've never cried. Yeah, that's but it's fun. And what's interesting over the past couple of years is the the level of innovation that is still I mean, it's still rapidly speeding, going fast as can be and trying to keep up so the pandemic pandemic didn't slow that down.
02:16
No, actually, it just went undercover. Just
02:20
just a bit. All right. For the listeners out there. Give us a little background on who Charlie is.
02:25
Oh, okay, so I'm head of our utility segment for a company called Ubicquia. I said that very clearly. That's
02:32
right. And for you listeners out there, I'm gonna have it out there on industrial talk. spelled correctly.
02:39
You bequia. It comes from the word ubiquitous, which means everywhere. That's right doesn't I'm dropping some truth he is reporting. That the reason we use that name is because we use existing available networks, LTE networks, if you are if you have a cell phone in your pocket, then you are using an LTE based network from a carrier. They can also be private, LTE networks and utilities can take advantage of those networks. They're secure. They're built out. They could use them for grid solutions, and they can use them for Smart City solutions. And that's why we're at DistribuTECH we have a suite of solutions in all these areas. connectivity, 5g small cell traffic congestion and cities grid monitoring holiday above, at our booth. Four one zoom three MC.
03:39
Wow. You nailed it. And I don't have any other stuff that no, we're down here. Wrapping up here because there is no. So you're at this. You're at this event. What are you talking about? What what is the topic you're sort of addressing?
03:54
So I have a presentation later today.
03:57
It's at three o'clock. So he's already reminded me of that.
04:00
So that's this is my practice for the presentation. So the presentation is around smart city applications. And how can we leverage the streetlight? Here the streetlight for Smart Cities is kind of like the Nordstroms the anchor tenant in this mall, you land the anchor tenant, and you build out from there. So much can be done. We start with spotlighting go back five 710 years and while Smart Lighting is power smart,
04:28
or whatever, you got to define smart lighting.
04:31
Imagine that you can control the light remotely when the light burns out. Someone knows they can roll a truck if there's a voltage issue at the light if you want to set the light to be brighter. Some cities like to over brighten parts of town for obvious reasons. So this idea of this make this go to elite these is a better life uses less energy and less control it must be able to fly should demand scheduling, look at alarms that come from the light and read and react to the alarm, not just truck driving around and wait for lights to fail. So this idea of spotlighting, is fairly basic has been around for 15 years or so. The question is, so what's next? What's in it for the utility? Can they get benefit out of spotlighting? And what other things can we attach to a streetlight that could further economic development for a city increase public safety, public safety, especially in the urban areas is a really a real issue. So yes, we want to enhance public safety with cameras, sensors, devices. And leads again, back to economic development, you want to live in cities that are thriving, they have crime under control, is evidence management. We'll talk about that a bit. How can you capture evidence around issues on the streets that you can use to resolve issues, but also you can look at to see where do we have potholes in the roads? Where do we have roads that are undersized for the traffic, and we need to expand lanes here, we don't need so much there where to place that important municipal spend. That's more targeted. So it's kind of all of the above. Now, I'm a utility guy who used to work for utilities. So I also think of it in terms of
06:26
what what utility,
06:28
I worked for progress energy back in the day based out of Raleigh, North Carolina, if you can tell I'm a southerner. And progress now is part of Duke Energy. Yep. So headquarters went from Raleigh to Charlotte about three hours away. So my background is utility operations. So the question is, half the streetlights in this country are owned by the utilities on behalf of the city. So a city wants to put digital signage up on a pole. If they don't own the pole, they have to get permissions from the utility if they want to add smart lighting, it has something utility would do if they want to enhance the economic development in make other taxes, that certain that the utility has to weigh, you know, so. So the question is, what else? What else can be a benefit to the city but also be a benefit to the utility? And that's an area that I don't think that's ground we've cloud.
07:25
So I get it, there's a lot of lights out there. There's like there's a heck of
07:31
there's a huge dump. And and
07:33
one of the questions is, are we able to, you know, are we leveraging those physical assets in a way that achieves what you're, you're talking about it because they're out there? So what can we hang off of it? What can we
07:46
and it's not just the things that we can hang off the pole or the light. One of the things I mentioned in my talk in about 45 minutes is because it's at three o'clock, it's at three o'clock is small cell 5g. Everyone talks about 5g, all the commercials on TV about 5g. Well, 5g cannot be provided from a cell tower. It's very fast, but it has a much shorter range. Whoa, see that's heard that word. Yes. So 5g is going to have to be provided on the back of lights, streetlights, or utility poles, because it's a block to block thing. The faster the speed, the shorter the range, the less the more interruption, you can get to the signal. For instance, 5g cannot go around buildings can't go through trees, it's got to have line of sight from from the device to your phone, it's got to be a line of sight. slower speed traffic can go through and around. So just from a physics standpoint, you cannot deploy 5g without considering how you could use the utilities poles.
08:59
So so how are they doing it today? I mean, people are chirping about 5g. So with that definition, now they're doing it? Well.
09:08
If you look around, there are these things called fat poles. They're black. Typically, they have their fat. They have all types of embedded antennas, arrays, that is a 5g pole, you see them popping up. They're expensive. They require a new pole structure. So the way it's been done today is not leveraging the existing infrastructure. They're not leveraging the streetlights in the street light poles or putting new poles you fat poles, which, by the way, are ugly. And so there's this issue around deciding the pole but also do you want that pole in your backyard? In this nice part of town. That's the way it's done is experienced expensive is the slowest path to victory. If you could somehow leverage the existing infrastructure of existing poles the streetlights to build out at least a part of that fire. GE canopy, or then ill, 5g will happen much faster. And it'll happen much faster because it'll be cheaper to install.
10:12
It makes sense. Just I mean, I'm not I'm not finding any pushback on what you're mentioning, because I just don't have to, but so it's somewhat. Maybe I'm a naysayer, maybe I'm not that crotchety guy. The 5g exists out there, but it's still not a massive coverage.
10:33
Now it's not Yeah, there's different flavors of 5g, you hear about, there's actually three different I guess speeds, the really bullet down, like three different speeds of 5g. And a lot of the 5g that's out there is the is the slowest 5g speed, which is easy to deploy. But if you're not an NFL city, you're probably not gonna get good 5g coverage anytime soon. If you're if you're in middle America, I just don't think you're gonna get it. It's just too expensive for the number of users. So unfortunately, it's a bit like a regressive tax. Those that maybe need it the most now that we work from home, this whole digital divide is exposed that the big underbelly of America needs profit. As Jimmy Stewart said, in the famous movie, and most of living dining has been done in small towns, right.
11:35
Sure. That's a good one. And I just want to commend you for being the first person to quote Jimmy Stewart on the podcast. Well, congratulations. I wish I had a pen, but I don't know that.
11:48
Well, it's just a warm feeling inside. It's all on me.
11:51
So show of respect. So with to truly enable the the the smart city. Sure, I mean, 5g has to be a part
12:06
of, it has to be a part, if you think about the cities that are growing the fastest. And I saw a recent study that a lot of the midsize cities are growing fast like Austin, Raleigh, North Carolina, my hometown, because people were finding that if they could just work from home, if they can afford a house, if it was a safe environment, and proper infrastructure, we tend to think in terms of roads, and reliable power. But now people are asking for what's your coverage now? And you look at noon today. Back in the day, you say do you have a dining room nowadays, people that move in two areas? The first question is, where is the study? Where will I be working? Where's my studio gonna be in this house? What kind of coverage Do you have? You have good schools, we have good coverage? Those questions come up. So utilities are involved cities know that. If they really want to grow and attract talent, they've got to have broadband coverage.
13:05
I didn't realize that. That's a curse. I've lived in our house for a little while. So we didn't have that conversation when we first bought it.
13:13
Well, you know, when my kids went to college and came back, the first thing they said was, Dad, you've got to improve your coverage. Did they come home? All their laptops open up? And
13:21
and yeah, it just. But But and you're in a business that does that?
13:26
Sure. We support that. So that's, that's a great need. In in this context of cities. That's, I think that's a key impediment to economic growth.
13:40
Somebody was, you know, before we wrap up, where do you see it going? I mean, I get it, I understand it. I mean, it's gonna happen in some way, shape, or form. Where do you see it going?
13:52
Well, typically, my experience has been that the technology is always well ahead of the regulatory environment. Okay, interesting point. And so technology is available, but for whatever reason is not cost effective, or the current regulatory environment does not allow for now, let's go back to who wants to pose. Back when the whole attachment fees were created for the utilities, they did not anticipate a future world of small cell 5g, Wi Fi, other things that the kinds of attachments they envision might be, you know, traffic counters, etc. So they're having to rethink their tariff structures. Now changing tariff structures for large utilities has been like changing the tax. Yeah,
14:37
it's like me trying to grow hair. That would be a problem. It's a tough one.
14:42
Yes. So. So the issue with the utilities face are we have to restructure our tariffs, we have to restructure our pole attachment fees. Yeah, we have a whole new class of devices that need to be attached to our poles. So how do we do that?
14:59
I don't, I don't have an answer. And that's why you get paid the big bucks. You have you have the answers, right?
15:04
I don't have all the answers. No one does. But collectively, I think we have some options
15:08
in it is that back to collaboration? We have to collaborate. Without a doubt. How do people get a hold yet?
15:14
Well come by booth, by booth 4103. You can look at our website and you ubicquia spell it right. Ubicquia.com
15:26
Thank you, because I guarantee I would have spelled it wrong, but I don't because I've got your card and I will spell it right. And it will be out on industrial talk. So don't come to me and say, I can't get a hold up, Charlie. Yeah, you can go to industrial talk.com Find out more you will not be disappointed. I'm not disappointed.
15:45
This has been fun. Thanks.
15:47
All right, listeners arias. Charlie, Charlie, to my left. All right. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side. So stay tuned, do not go away. We will be right back.
15:58
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
16:03
All right. Once again, thank you very much for joining industrial talk. And thank you definitely for your support. Charlie is his name. Ubicquia is the company talk in smart cities, solutions at distribute tech 2022. And you're saying Scott, it's 2023. It doesn't matter. 2022 had great conversations, great content, great information, solving incredible problems. And if you're in the industrial, utilities, energy space, that is a conference for you. I think it's in San Diego, and it's right around the corner. So put that on your calendar to attend because you just have to, you just have to it's a great conference, get to see some incredible solutions. All right. As you know, we're going to have all the contact...
Transcripts
00:04
Welcome to the industrial talk podcast with Scott Mackenzie. Scott is a passionate industry professional dedicated to transferring cutting edge industry focused innovations and trends while highlighting the men and women who keep the world moving. So put on your hard hat, grab your work boots,
00:21
and let's go right that's right. You're listening to industrial talk the number one industrial related podcast in the universe. That's right, Charlie, don't don't don't even begin to question my. That's all day. That's all driven by data, believe it, I believe. And it is an ever expanding industrial ecosystem of professionals from around the world. It's quite a really quite a lot of mouthful, that are solving problems and making your life better. That's what they're all about. And we're broadcasting we're on site here at DistribuTECH 22. Dallas, Texas is the town. And it's great to see people milling about the place, and the slipping and tripping over technology everywhere. It's great. It's great to see this happening. Right, Charlie?
01:07
Sure. I love it.
01:09
To video conference, is the first one.
01:13
I went to another conference about a month, two months ago. I had to had to shave, clean up the hair.
01:22
You didn't have to look like Howard Hughes after years of being at the top of that Casino.
01:28
You slow hair product.
01:31
It's good to see everybody.
01:33
It is good. It just reminds me how much space is in the rearview mirror. Because I see so many people I've seen before over the years. And it's like reunion like a high school reunion.
01:45
Have you come across those people that you've only met virtually?
01:49
Yes. And the issue is, gosh, I thought you were taller. Or in my case. I thought you were taller. I'm not so,
01:57
so true. I've never cried. Yeah, that's but it's fun. And what's interesting over the past couple of years is the the level of innovation that is still I mean, it's still rapidly speeding, going fast as can be and trying to keep up so the pandemic pandemic didn't slow that down.
02:16
No, actually, it just went undercover. Just
02:20
just a bit. All right. For the listeners out there. Give us a little background on who Charlie is.
02:25
Oh, okay, so I'm head of our utility segment for a company called Ubicquia. I said that very clearly. That's
02:32
right. And for you listeners out there, I'm gonna have it out there on industrial talk. spelled correctly.
02:39
You bequia. It comes from the word ubiquitous, which means everywhere. That's right doesn't I'm dropping some truth he is reporting. That the reason we use that name is because we use existing available networks, LTE networks, if you are if you have a cell phone in your pocket, then you are using an LTE based network from a carrier. They can also be private, LTE networks and utilities can take advantage of those networks. They're secure. They're built out. They could use them for grid solutions, and they can use them for Smart City solutions. And that's why we're at DistribuTECH we have a suite of solutions in all these areas. connectivity, 5g small cell traffic congestion and cities grid monitoring holiday above, at our booth. Four one zoom three MC.
03:39
Wow. You nailed it. And I don't have any other stuff that no, we're down here. Wrapping up here because there is no. So you're at this. You're at this event. What are you talking about? What what is the topic you're sort of addressing?
03:54
So I have a presentation later today.
03:57
It's at three o'clock. So he's already reminded me of that.
04:00
So that's this is my practice for the presentation. So the presentation is around smart city applications. And how can we leverage the streetlight? Here the streetlight for Smart Cities is kind of like the Nordstroms the anchor tenant in this mall, you land the anchor tenant, and you build out from there. So much can be done. We start with spotlighting go back five 710 years and while Smart Lighting is power smart,
04:28
or whatever, you got to define smart lighting.
04:31
Imagine that you can control the light remotely when the light burns out. Someone knows they can roll a truck if there's a voltage issue at the light if you want to set the light to be brighter. Some cities like to over brighten parts of town for obvious reasons. So this idea of this make this go to elite these is a better life uses less energy and less control it must be able to fly should demand scheduling, look at alarms that come from the light and read and react to the alarm, not just truck driving around and wait for lights to fail. So this idea of spotlighting, is fairly basic has been around for 15 years or so. The question is, so what's next? What's in it for the utility? Can they get benefit out of spotlighting? And what other things can we attach to a streetlight that could further economic development for a city increase public safety, public safety, especially in the urban areas is a really a real issue. So yes, we want to enhance public safety with cameras, sensors, devices. And leads again, back to economic development, you want to live in cities that are thriving, they have crime under control, is evidence management. We'll talk about that a bit. How can you capture evidence around issues on the streets that you can use to resolve issues, but also you can look at to see where do we have potholes in the roads? Where do we have roads that are undersized for the traffic, and we need to expand lanes here, we don't need so much there where to place that important municipal spend. That's more targeted. So it's kind of all of the above. Now, I'm a utility guy who used to work for utilities. So I also think of it in terms of
06:26
what what utility,
06:28
I worked for progress energy back in the day based out of Raleigh, North Carolina, if you can tell I'm a southerner. And progress now is part of Duke Energy. Yep. So headquarters went from Raleigh to Charlotte about three hours away. So my background is utility operations. So the question is, half the streetlights in this country are owned by the utilities on behalf of the city. So a city wants to put digital signage up on a pole. If they don't own the pole, they have to get permissions from the utility if they want to add smart lighting, it has something utility would do if they want to enhance the economic development in make other taxes, that certain that the utility has to weigh, you know, so. So the question is, what else? What else can be a benefit to the city but also be a benefit to the utility? And that's an area that I don't think that's ground we've cloud.
07:25
So I get it, there's a lot of lights out there. There's like there's a heck of
07:31
there's a huge dump. And and
07:33
one of the questions is, are we able to, you know, are we leveraging those physical assets in a way that achieves what you're, you're talking about it because they're out there? So what can we hang off of it? What can we
07:46
and it's not just the things that we can hang off the pole or the light. One of the things I mentioned in my talk in about 45 minutes is because it's at three o'clock, it's at three o'clock is small cell 5g. Everyone talks about 5g, all the commercials on TV about 5g. Well, 5g cannot be provided from a cell tower. It's very fast, but it has a much shorter range. Whoa, see that's heard that word. Yes. So 5g is going to have to be provided on the back of lights, streetlights, or utility poles, because it's a block to block thing. The faster the speed, the shorter the range, the less the more interruption, you can get to the signal. For instance, 5g cannot go around buildings can't go through trees, it's got to have line of sight from from the device to your phone, it's got to be a line of sight. slower speed traffic can go through and around. So just from a physics standpoint, you cannot deploy 5g without considering how you could use the utilities poles.
08:59
So so how are they doing it today? I mean, people are chirping about 5g. So with that definition, now they're doing it? Well.
09:08
If you look around, there are these things called fat poles. They're black. Typically, they have their fat. They have all types of embedded antennas, arrays, that is a 5g pole, you see them popping up. They're expensive. They require a new pole structure. So the way it's been done today is not leveraging the existing infrastructure. They're not leveraging the streetlights in the street light poles or putting new poles you fat poles, which, by the way, are ugly. And so there's this issue around deciding the pole but also do you want that pole in your backyard? In this nice part of town. That's the way it's done is experienced expensive is the slowest path to victory. If you could somehow leverage the existing infrastructure of existing poles the streetlights to build out at least a part of that fire. GE canopy, or then ill, 5g will happen much faster. And it'll happen much faster because it'll be cheaper to install.
10:12
It makes sense. Just I mean, I'm not I'm not finding any pushback on what you're mentioning, because I just don't have to, but so it's somewhat. Maybe I'm a naysayer, maybe I'm not that crotchety guy. The 5g exists out there, but it's still not a massive coverage.
10:33
Now it's not Yeah, there's different flavors of 5g, you hear about, there's actually three different I guess speeds, the really bullet down, like three different speeds of 5g. And a lot of the 5g that's out there is the is the slowest 5g speed, which is easy to deploy. But if you're not an NFL city, you're probably not gonna get good 5g coverage anytime soon. If you're if you're in middle America, I just don't think you're gonna get it. It's just too expensive for the number of users. So unfortunately, it's a bit like a regressive tax. Those that maybe need it the most now that we work from home, this whole digital divide is exposed that the big underbelly of America needs profit. As Jimmy Stewart said, in the famous movie, and most of living dining has been done in small towns, right.
11:35
Sure. That's a good one. And I just want to commend you for being the first person to quote Jimmy Stewart on the podcast. Well, congratulations. I wish I had a pen, but I don't know that.
11:48
Well, it's just a warm feeling inside. It's all on me.
11:51
So show of respect. So with to truly enable the the the smart city. Sure, I mean, 5g has to be a part
12:06
of, it has to be a part, if you think about the cities that are growing the fastest. And I saw a recent study that a lot of the midsize cities are growing fast like Austin, Raleigh, North Carolina, my hometown, because people were finding that if they could just work from home, if they can afford a house, if it was a safe environment, and proper infrastructure, we tend to think in terms of roads, and reliable power. But now people are asking for what's your coverage now? And you look at noon today. Back in the day, you say do you have a dining room nowadays, people that move in two areas? The first question is, where is the study? Where will I be working? Where's my studio gonna be in this house? What kind of coverage Do you have? You have good schools, we have good coverage? Those questions come up. So utilities are involved cities know that. If they really want to grow and attract talent, they've got to have broadband coverage.
13:05
I didn't realize that. That's a curse. I've lived in our house for a little while. So we didn't have that conversation when we first bought it.
13:13
Well, you know, when my kids went to college and came back, the first thing they said was, Dad, you've got to improve your coverage. Did they come home? All their laptops open up? And
13:21
and yeah, it just. But But and you're in a business that does that?
13:26
Sure. We support that. So that's, that's a great need. In in this context of cities. That's, I think that's a key impediment to economic growth.
13:40
Somebody was, you know, before we wrap up, where do you see it going? I mean, I get it, I understand it. I mean, it's gonna happen in some way, shape, or form. Where do you see it going?
13:52
Well, typically, my experience has been that the technology is always well ahead of the regulatory environment. Okay, interesting point. And so technology is available, but for whatever reason is not cost effective, or the current regulatory environment does not allow for now, let's go back to who wants to pose. Back when the whole attachment fees were created for the utilities, they did not anticipate a future world of small cell 5g, Wi Fi, other things that the kinds of attachments they envision might be, you know, traffic counters, etc. So they're having to rethink their tariff structures. Now changing tariff structures for large utilities has been like changing the tax. Yeah,
14:37
it's like me trying to grow hair. That would be a problem. It's a tough one.
14:42
Yes. So. So the issue with the utilities face are we have to restructure our tariffs, we have to restructure our pole attachment fees. Yeah, we have a whole new class of devices that need to be attached to our poles. So how do we do that?
14:59
I don't, I don't have an answer. And that's why you get paid the big bucks. You have you have the answers, right?
15:04
I don't have all the answers. No one does. But collectively, I think we have some options
15:08
in it is that back to collaboration? We have to collaborate. Without a doubt. How do people get a hold yet?
15:14
Well come by booth, by booth:
15:26
Thank you, because I guarantee I would have spelled it wrong, but I don't because I've got your card and I will spell it right. And it will be out on industrial talk. So don't come to me and say, I can't get a hold up, Charlie. Yeah, you can go to industrial talk.com Find out more you will not be disappointed. I'm not disappointed.
15:45
This has been fun. Thanks.
15:47
All right, listeners arias. Charlie, Charlie, to my left. All right. We're gonna wrap it up on the other side. So stay tuned, do not go away. We will be right back.
15:58
You're listening to the industrial talk Podcast Network.
