Today on the podcast, I am talking to Katie Bell from Katherena about how she followed in her father's footsteps and launched her own women's accessory brand. Katie has had her brand for over six years now, and has just launched a membership for businesses and influencers to help collaborate and grow their brands.

Katie shares lots of useful tips about finding a manufacturer, the importance of not over-ordering, and having the confidence to negotiate, and how you can’t necessarily predict what your bestsellers are going to be. 

• An introduction to herself and her businesses (01:08)
• Katie’s background in fashion (01:38)
• How her dad inspired her to set up her own business (03:05)
• The process of deciding that making the bags herself was not viable (04;34)
• Making manufacturing connections in China (06:10)
• How Katie commissions her designs without detailed design drawings (07:22)
• You can’t always predict what your bestselling designs will be (09:21)
• The process of experimenting with her range (13:17)
• Learning not to overorder (15:11)
• The importance of negotiating with manufacturers (16:24)
• Storing her stock (18:18)
• Order fulfilment (19:08)
• Managing work and her young children (19:55)
• Selling other products alongside her own on the website (20:48)
• Her number one piece of advice for product creators (23:42)

The Bring Your Product Idea to Life Podcast  - Best Business Podcast Award, Independent Podcast Awards 2023

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Katherena Instagram

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

2

This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

3

products, or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

4

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

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Every week I share friendly, practical

advice, as well as inspirational

6

stories from small businesses.

7

Let's get started.

8

Hello.

9

Today on the podcast, I am talking to

Katie Bell from Katherena about how she

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followed in her father's footsteps and

launched her own women's accessory brand.

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So Katie has had her brand for over

six years now, and she's also about to

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launch a membership for businesses and

influencers to help collaborate and grow

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their brands, which is super exciting.

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So Katie is going to talk to us all

about bag designing, bag manufacturing.

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Um, she had lots and lots of

useful advice about the sourcing

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and manufacturing process.

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This is a really great

conversation and I'm really

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excited to introduce you to Katie.

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So hi, Katie.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Katie Bell: Hello.

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Thank you for having me.

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Vicki Weinberg: Oh, you're so welcome.

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Can we start with you please,

give an introduction to you,

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your business and what you sell?

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Katie Bell: Yes.

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So my name is Katie and my

business is called Katherena.

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Um, which came from my full

name, which is Kathrine Serena.

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A lot of people think that my actual

name is Katherena, but it isn't.

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Um, so yeah, Katherena is a range

of bags for women and I designed the

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bags myself, but I don't make them.

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So I manufactured them overseas.

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Vicki Weinberg: Brilliant.

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Thank you.

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I've got so many follow on questions.

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So first of all, Katie, what

inspired you to start Katherena?

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Um, and did you have any, I know

this is probably a big question, but

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did you have any background in bag

design or manufacturing before that?

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Katie Bell: Yes.

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This might be a long answer.

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I'm sure you won't mind.

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So I done fashion at university.

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I done fashion promotion.

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So I didn't want to do funnily enough, I

didn't want to do designing or anything.

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Um, I wanted to do the sort of styling,

working for magazines, that sort of thing.

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Um, and I graduated and got

lucky, not luckily, but, um, I

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got my dream job when I finished.

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Wasn't down to luck.

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It was down to hard work.

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Um, and interning quite a lot through,

um, the summer that I was at university.

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So yeah, I've got my dream job

working in London as a stylist

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or an assistant to a stylist.

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We were working with celebrities

doing red carpet magazines.

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Um, and I absolutely loved it.

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It was completely what I wanted to

do, but unfortunately coming from a

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really small town in Norfolk, living

in London, um, just wasn't for me.

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I found myself really, really lonely.

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I didn't know anyone there.

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Um, so I was quite homesick and

just couldn't really do it anymore.

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So I decided to move back home.

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But I also knew that if I moved back home,

there was absolutely nothing there for me.

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Um, there's no fashion companies,

no, no businesses that I could go and

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work for, um, that I'd be happy doing.

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So I decided to set up my own business.

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And that was mainly because

my dad had a business himself

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and I'd grown up around it.

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Um, and he manufactures his own,

um, flight cases and storage cases.

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Um, so I had the idea while I was

living in London, um, towards the end

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of my time there, I had the idea to

create a version of it, um, as a bag.

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If that makes sense, um, it's probably

hard to describe it without showing,

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but so he makes, um, the cases are

for the light and sound industry.

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So what DJs use, um, and television

production companies use, um,

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but the home version of it was

sort of a university trunks.

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I don't know if you've seen them

like boarding school trunks,

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steamer trunks, that sort of thing.

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Um, so yeah, I had the idea

to do a version of it, a

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miniature version as a handbag.

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And so I spoke to my dad about it and he

was on, he was very much on board with it.

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Um, so we actually started making

them ourselves in his factory,

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um, and briefcase versions,

clutch bags, that sort of thing.

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And then we ended up obviously going

to China later on and meeting with

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suppliers over there because making

them ourselves just wasn't viable.

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So yeah, that was sort of the backstory.

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Vicki Weinberg: Brilliant.

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Thank you.

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When you said that making yourselves

wasn't viable, by the way, I've

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got lots more questions, but

let's touch on that one first.

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Why was that?

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Was it volume?

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Was it cost?

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Was it everything?

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I'm just, I'm just really curious

because I speak to lots of

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businesses who do something similar.

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They start production in house

and then there's a bit of a

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question mark, isn't there, about

should I outsource production?

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So I'm just, I'm curious on, on your

experience because it might be a

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good gauge for someone if they're

trying to make a similar decision.

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Um, I don't know whether the actual

goal from the start was to make them

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all ourselves full time, or whether,

or whether the idea was to just start

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it off that way and then go to China.

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I can't really remember.

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But anyway, it, obviously

my dad's background was in

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making them on a larger scale.

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So obviously he, all

his machinery and tools.

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were aimed at those larger scale

pieces of wood and leather.

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Um, so that was very difficult.

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We were having to do it

on a much smaller scale.

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We're having to get in much

smaller pieces of, um, metal for

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the corners and for the clasps.

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So it was a different, different kettle

of fish for my dad and for me as well.

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I'd never made anything before.

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Um, so I was sewing on the

sewing machine, um, doing all

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the leather to cover the bags.

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Um.

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And yeah, it just, it was

going to be far too expensive.

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So the bags were going to

cost hundreds of pounds.

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Um, and it was taking us

like a week to make one.

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Whereas we knew if we'd have gone to

China, which my dad had contacts over

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there anyway, we knew that if we'd

have taken over to them and shown them

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a sample, they'd be able to turn it

around in, you know, a fraction of

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the time and a fraction of the cost.

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So that's what we're doing.

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We actually, um, my dad took me to China

with him on one of his business trips.

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I wouldn't have been able

to do it myself, obviously.

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Um, and still to this day, six years

later, I haven't been able to go back

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there myself, but he was in the position

to take me and meet with his contacts.

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Um, and it was, yeah,

really an amazing trip.

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I met with a few different suppliers.

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I took the prototypes that me and my

dad had made and they, they pretty much

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made an exact sort of duplicate of it.

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Um, and I had them all

produced then from that.

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Vicki Weinberg: That must've been

such a good experience and like how

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fortunate to be able to give them a

prototype and say, this is what I want.

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Because I think there was so many

challenges when you're dealing with a

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supplier from the UK and you're going

back and forward on email and you might be

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sending photos or however you're doing it.

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: That must've just

been a huge benefit to be able to

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say, this is exactly what I want

and just hand something over.

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Katie Bell: Funnily enough,

I'm in the middle of designing

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a new product at the minute.

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Yeah.

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And.

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Yeah, it's the same.

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I wish I could just jump on a flight

now and go and meet with them in

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person, so I could, you know, have a

look through the fabrics and the zips.

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Um, but it's a lot

harder with photographs.

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Vicki Weinberg: So coming back to like

the startup process, so had you, when you

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were studying at university, was design

included in the course that you did?

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Katie Bell: No.

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So when I done my college course,

which was obviously before I went to

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university, we had, it was all design.

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It was fashion design, but it was

nothing to do with bags or accessories.

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It was just clothing.

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And funnily enough, the, my worst

part of the course was the drawing.

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I liked making, but I hated drawing.

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I still to this day, hate drawing.

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Um, I'm not very good at it, but it,

I suppose now I just use what's in my

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head, and I can use, you know, images

from the computer, and I can put it

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together in a different way, to actually

sitting down and doing like digital

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illustrations, which is what I suppose

professional designers would do nowadays.

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I do manage to get around it.

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Um, my factories, I suppose know

me now and that I send images and

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I just tell them what's in my head

rather than actually sending them

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a, a proper, um, illustration.

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Vicki Weinberg: I guess it really helps

that you've got the relationship now

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though, so you are able to do that.

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: I imagine, and I might

be wrong, but I imagine if right at

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the beginning, you hadn't had the

opportunity to go to China and you were

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sort of trying to get things going, it

could have taken possibly a lot longer.

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Katie Bell: Yes.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

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I, this is something that comes up so much

in conversations, like the relationship

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for your supplier is just so important.

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Katie Bell: Yes, definitely.

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I have changed the, the one that

I met with in, um, back when I

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started in 2015, 16, um, they

actually closed down during COVID.

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So my, my very first supplier

isn't my current supplier.

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Um, I have changed a couple of times,

but yeah, the relationship is still

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really strong with my new ones and

it's, it's key to the business.

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Vicki Weinberg: And it sounds

like, coming back to design side.

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Am I right in thinking that your products,

they're very similar to the products your

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dad was, is manufacturing, but adapted.

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So did that help to have a starting point?

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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So the starting point, um, it's funny

because the very first product that I

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had was that, you know, the miniature,

the miniature trunk, um, that was the

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very first product that I launched and

it wasn't my bestseller, and to this day,

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the clutch bags aren't my bestseller,

the rucksacks are, which is obviously

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a much more casual, functional bag.

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Um, so I have changed quite drastically,

really, to go from, you know, the tiny

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little box clutch into a rucksack.

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Um, but yeah, I, I focus my collection now

around the sort of casual everyday bag.

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Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

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And I will put a link to your website

in the show notes, encourage everyone

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to go and take a look, because

obviously it's, um, it's hard to talk

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about products and describe them.

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So I'm sure if everyone listens

to this with their browser

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open it, it will make sense.

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Yeah, it will really help.

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So that's what, yeah,

so that's really, yeah.

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So it sounds like, um, you have adapted

though quite a lot in the last few

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years from your first products to now.

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So was there a big like learning curve

between designing and manufacturing

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the, the boxy clutches to a rucksack?

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Because I'm imagining a rucksack

has just got a whole load more

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components and things to think about.

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Katie Bell: Funnily enough.

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I.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I completely understand my customers

now as well, because when I first

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launched, I'm trying to think

how old I was when I launched, I

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think I was 23 when I launched.

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And I thought that all my customers

were going to be 23 as well.

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I thought they were going to be,

you know, my friends, um, and sort

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of late teens, early twenties.

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Um, that's why I designed

the little clutch bag.

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Um, but I soon realized

that once I launched.

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And I brought out the rucksack.

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The rucksacks were selling a

lot more than the clutch bags.

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And I also then realized, you know,

a year or two later that my customer

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was actually much older than I am.

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My customer was actually my mum's

age and my mum's friend's age.

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So I completely changed.

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That was a massive, massive

learning curve and really, really

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helped a lot in the business.

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Um, so I then went back to the

drawing board and changed quite a lot.

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I changed the branding, um, and I changed

my key product, which is now the rucksack.

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Um, so yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: That

is really interesting.

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And do you have any sense on why

that is, but how that came to be?

236

I mean, do you think it was like the price

point attracted a different customer or.

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Katie Bell: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Vicki Weinberg: Do you have any sense?

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Is that what it was?

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Katie Bell: I think the only thing I can

put it down to is price point really.

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Um, yeah, I suppose.

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And the fact that obviously the rucksack

is such a good bag because the, the

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design, I don't know, the customers

have the rucksack rave about it.

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I've never had anyone return

the rucksack, um, touchwood.

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Um, yeah, it's just a brilliant bag.

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So I think a, the price point it's

lower now than it was when I started.

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When I first started, I was

selling them in stores as well.

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And I was doing trade shows.

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I went down that route.

250

So obviously my markup

had to be a lot higher.

251

Um, it's, it is lower now, but yeah, I

think back when I started with it being

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75 pounds, obviously a lot of those, um,

early 20 year olds couldn't afford it.

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Vicki Weinberg: That makes total sense.

254

And when I think back, because I'm

a lot older than you, but I think

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back to being in my early twenties

back then, I don't think I was that

256

interested in sustainability and

spending more on items and keeping them

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longer and all of that sort of thing.

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So I think that's probably

something that's changed.

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: Also, I'll be honest when

I admit this might just be me, but when I

261

was younger, I didn't feel like I needed

a rucksack to carry loads of stuff around.

262

It's actually having children

for me that made that shift.

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Katie Bell: Yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: And I'm not saying it's

only mothers who need rucksacks, but

265

that for me was the moment where I was

like, oh, suddenly I have to carry a

266

whole load more stuff than I ever did.

267

Katie Bell: Definitely.

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And I actually bought out a handbag.

269

I hadn't done a, you know,

traditional sort of handbag

270

until a couple of years ago.

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Okay.

272

And.

273

it, it didn't flop, but it didn't sell

anywhere near as much as the rucksack.

274

So again, you know, I started

off with the clutch bag.

275

It sold okay, but not

as much as the rucksack.

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Then I brought out the rucksack,

which sold really well.

277

And then I went back and thought

I'll try a handbag this time.

278

And again, the handbag didn't sell

anywhere near as much as the rucksack.

279

And after speaking to my

audience, they were all just

280

saying, we don't use a handbag.

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I don't take a handbag out.

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I need a rucksack.

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I need to be hands free.

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So yeah, again, I just

stuck with the rucksack.

285

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

286

And it's really, I think it's a

real credit to you that you have

287

like listened to people and sort of

designed the collection with your

288

customers in mind, because I think

it can be really tempting to be, for

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example, oh, I really like handbags.

290

So I'm going to design this bag that

I really like and be a little bit

291

oblivious to the fact that actually

it's not, you know, it's not hitting

292

the market, what people are looking for.

293

Especially when you're designing

something and you like feel, you

294

know, you might love it, for example.

295

So I think that's really good that you

have taken all the feedback on board.

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Because it is a hard thing to do.

297

I mean, I don't think it's easy to

put all that time and effort into

298

something and then be like, oh,

people aren't actually buying that.

299

That is, that is hard.

300

I don't know.

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We're like glossing over it, but

that's not an easy thing to come

302

to terms with, I don't think.

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Katie Bell: And especially because

I can only afford to really

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bring out one new bag a year.

305

Um, sometimes it's been even less

than that and it's been one every sort

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of 18 months or I've had a couple of

times where I've launched two a year,

307

but yeah, it's such a long time and

it takes a lot of money to save up

308

obviously to launch a new, a new bag.

309

Um, so if it doesn't do as well

as I hope then obviously, yeah, it

310

is really, really disheartening.

311

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

312

So I just.

313

Yeah, I did want to bring that

up because I know we're sort of

314

talking about it really casually,

but it is, yeah, it's hard.

315

So I just want to say that I think it's

great that you've kind of embraced that as

316

well and you didn't just continue push it.

317

So with the lines that haven't done

as well, do you still sell them now?

318

Do you manufacture smaller quantities?

319

Katie Bell: Um, no, the ones

that haven't done as well, I've

320

sort of just let them, them sell.

321

I never order huge amount of

stocks, huge quantities anymore.

322

Um, that is one of the lessons that I

learned early on my first ever batch.

323

I overordered and I had loads,

um, and they lasted me years, but

324

I've learned from that lesson.

325

And now I don't, I don't order much.

326

So the handbags that didn't do great,

um, they, they sold eventually, but

327

no, I won't be bringing them back.

328

Vicki Weinberg: That sounds

like a really good model though.

329

So ordering smaller quantities.

330

Because I assume that if something,

say for example, your rucksacks

331

sell well, you can then increase

the quantities, but I think doing

332

like small batches of production

for something new makes total sense.

333

And I guess hopefully you're at a position

with your suppliers where you can do that.

334

Katie Bell: Yeah.

335

Still not as small as

I'd like, but, um, yeah.

336

Vicki Weinberg: Because you said early

on you overorder, but I think that's

337

a lot of us in the early days, because

I think suppliers don't necessarily

338

always make it easy for you to order

small batches because obviously.

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Katie Bell: No.

340

Vicki Weinberg: Especially when it's

a brand new product to them and they

341

might have to do tooling or molds

or, yeah, whatever the thing is.

342

They obviously want to, and.

343

Katie Bell: I didn't try, I didn't

even try to negotiate, so when they

344

said 300 pieces, per colour, per style.

345

I was like, okay, we'll go,

we'll go with that then.

346

Yeah, that's fine, 300.

347

So that means I've got like 1200 total,

which was just way, way, way too many.

348

You know, I had a container full

of bags and I just started, had no

349

idea how I was going to sell them.

350

Uh, whereas now I, I do negotiate.

351

And I get them down lower.

352

Vicki Weinberg: I think you don't

know what you don't know though.

353

And I think, especially early on, so

I used to manufacture my own products

354

and I had no idea the first time I

placed an order that I could negotiate.

355

I had no idea that that was a thing

and that I could, and it sounds

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like now just so obvious, but you

just don't, you just don't know.

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Katie Bell: You don't want

to offend them either.

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Vicki Weinberg: No, I think when

you're, when you're new to something

359

as well, I think you almost, um,

take, you always almost assume that

360

everyone else knows better than you.

361

And if they're saying that number,

that must be the number because

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that's the number you're told.

363

I think it takes a little bit of

confidence to kind of go, well,

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actually that doesn't work for me.

365

And I think it's worth for

people listening to know that.

366

Most of the time, I think

people are open to negotiation.

367

You may not, as you've said, get down

to the number you'd like, but there

368

usually is a middle ground between the

number they want and the number you want.

369

Katie Bell: Yeah, definitely.

370

And the same on the price as well.

371

I always try and get

them down a little bit.

372

They, they will often sort

of ask what the budget.

373

Or what the target price is and not

necessarily can they reach that, but,

374

um, it's good for them to ask and

for you to sort of nudge towards it.

375

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

376

I think so.

377

I think it's good to have those

conversations, even if you don't

378

end up exactly where you want to be.

379

Hopefully you'll, you'll

end up a bit near that.

380

And I think it's also worth knowing you

can do that on your first order as well.

381

You don't have to wait to your second or

third or whatever, because presumably, um,

382

all manufacturers still want business and

still want new business, or they wouldn't

383

be having serious conversations with

you about, you know, about your product.

384

Katie Bell: Yeah.

385

Vicki Weinberg: So when you had,

just out of curiosity, when you had a

386

container full of, of bags, what were

you doing in terms of storing them?

387

Were they like boxes all over your home?

388

Katie Bell: No, again, thankfully my

dad has obviously got a factory and

389

he's got a container that he has.

390

Um, that I then took over.

391

So I've still got it, um, but I

keep it a lot less full than it was

392

back when I started, the container

was full of boxes and my dad

393

wasn't overly thrilled about it.

394

Um, and yeah, nowadays it's a lot less.

395

There's only, I don't know, maybe five

or six boxes at a time in there now.

396

And then I've also got a new

summer house that my husband

397

built for me in the garden.

398

So the summer house has got, I keep

like a few in there, um, on hand so

399

that I can obviously package up orders.

400

Vicki Weinberg: So are you still doing

your own fulfilment at the moment?

401

Katie Bell: Yes.

402

Yeah, I'm still fairly

small in terms of orders.

403

Um, I only work part time on

the business at the minute.

404

I don't have, I don't go to

work full time for a job, but,

405

um, I'm mum to two young boys.

406

So it's very, it's still

very much part time.

407

I actually, I was full

time in the business.

408

Uh, when I first started and now after

having my two boys, I've obviously

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reduced my hours quite a lot.

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But the great thing about this type

of business is that you can, you can

411

do that, you can reduce your hours.

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Yeah.

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Vicki Weinberg: And even if you get

to a point where orders, and hopefully

414

they will, hopefully you'll get to a

point where orders increase, you know,

415

you're then in a position maybe where

you can, you can still reduce your hours.

416

You just have to think about

what can be outsourced.

417

So.

418

Katie Bell: Exactly.

419

Yeah.

420

Vicki Weinberg: That is

one of the advantages.

421

Katie Bell: I think while they're,

while they're little, I'm sort of

422

just working around them and it can be

frustrating at times and I do, yeah.

423

I'm sort of like, oh, I just wish I could

spend a little bit more time on work.

424

Um, but I know that, you know,

it goes so fast and they'll

425

be at school before I know it.

426

Well, next year my, my first little

boy goes to school next year, so yeah,

427

there'll be more time to be had then.

428

Vicki Weinberg: I totally relate.

429

I mean, I try, my children are both

at school, but I try still now to work

430

around them and work within school hours.

431

Some days I can, some days I can't.

432

But yeah, like you say,

they do grow so fast.

433

Things change so quickly.

434

I think, yeah, as long as you're

in a position where you're able to.

435

Yeah.

436

I think, yeah, it makes,

it makes total sense.

437

And as I say, the good thing about

selling products is that it doesn't

438

matter whether you package up orders

at 10 o'clock at night or 10, 10 a m.

439

in the morning.

440

Katie Bell: Yeah.

441

Vicki Weinberg: It really doesn't matter.

442

Katie Bell: Yeah.

443

Vicki Weinberg: And I know on

your website, so just change

444

the subject ever so slightly.

445

So I know on your website that

you also sell some products that

446

you, that aren't your products,

the products you've created.

447

Um, let's talk a little bit about that.

448

So why, how, and when you made

the decision to do that and how

449

that side of the business works.

450

Katie Bell: So obviously with only being

able to afford to bring out one new bag

451

a year, roughly, um, I was getting to the

point where I was sort of like feeling

452

a little bit, I wouldn't say bored, uh,

what's the word I was missing that sort

453

of excitement of having something to

launch and I didn't want my customers

454

getting bored and just, you know, hanging

around waiting a year for a new bag.

455

Um, so yeah, I decided to buy in some,

um, I've tried a few different things,

456

but at the minute on the website, I've

got bag straps, um, key rings that I've

457

bought from other small businesses, just

little things that compliment the bags

458

that can obviously be sold alongside them.

459

Vicki Weinberg: That makes a lot of

sense because as you said, you want

460

people to come back, but it's always

easier to get someone to buy from you

461

again than to search for a new customer.

462

So I think that makes total sense and

having things that compliment your bags.

463

Katie Bell: Yeah, definitely.

464

And I always have them when I do in

person events, um, when it's like

465

Christmas markets and country fayres

and things, I always have little things

466

on the side there and I just never

used to sell them on the website.

467

Um, so it's sort of a recent

thing that I've started

468

stocking on the website as well.

469

Um, I was just finding at events, my

stands were looking a little bit bare

470

without, because I had such a small range

of bags, um, I just thought it was nice

471

to add those little key rings and fun

little accessories, um, alongside them.

472

Vicki Weinberg: Were those

things selling at the events?

473

Katie Bell: Yes, especially

towards Christmas time.

474

I was finding that the, I mean, when

I first started, I had these little,

475

you know, the fluffy pom pom key rings

that were really in a few years ago,

476

I remember taking those to a Christmas

market and were was just selling

477

so many of them, just one after the

other, these, these pom pom key rings.

478

Um, so yeah, I've, um, I've started

doing just, you know, little

479

different key rings, really.

480

Vicki Weinberg: That makes total sense.

481

And I think you're right.

482

It's a nice addition as well,

because someone might buy a bag,

483

then buy something to go with them.

484

Katie Bell: Yes.

485

Yeah.

486

And, and gifted, gifted items as well.

487

Um, again for Christmas, it's nice to

have the option to sell something that

488

can be easily gifted because sometimes a

bag is quite a personal choice, isn't it?

489

And I find a lot of people don't

necessarily buy them as a gift.

490

They usually buy them for themselves.

491

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

492

I think that makes sense.

493

I'm thinking, I don't think I would

buy a bag for someone unless I

494

knew them really well, but a strap

probably would take a chance on.

495

Yeah.

496

Yeah, that makes sense.

497

Oh, well, thank you so much, Katie.

498

I've got one more question before we

finish if that's alright and that's

499

the question I ask everybody, which

is what would your number one piece of

500

advice be for other product creators?

501

Katie Bell: I would say that there

is so many information out there and

502

so many resources out there nowadays.

503

Um, to help you learn things, things like

podcasts, like we're listening to now.

504

Um, I absolutely love podcasts and

have done since I started my business.

505

Um, every day, well, not so much anymore,

but I used to listen to them daily.

506

Um, on business topics again,

find Facebook groups that, um,

507

have other business owners in

or that help business owners.

508

Um, because yeah, there's just so

much out there now to help you.

509

So if you don't know something,

just be open to learning it.

510

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, that's great advice.

511

Thank you.

512

And I think you're right.

513

And also there is so much

free advice, isn't there?

514

So I know like a podcast or a

blog or a YouTube video might

515

not be the entire answer, but

actually for 80 percent of things.

516

Yeah.

517

Katie Bell: And sometimes even, sometimes

even just listen to them gives, like,

518

I'll sit and listen to a podcast and it

might even be anything related to bags

519

or online shopping or anything, but I'll

just hear something and think, oh, that's

520

giving me an idea for something else.

521

So then I'll quickly write a note

on my phone to think, oh, go back

522

to that one later, because it

can really start thinking, start

523

coming up with ideas for things.

524

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, absolutely.

525

Oh, well, thank you again, Katie.

526

It's been really good to talk to you.

527

I'm going to link to your, um, website

in the show notes when this episode

528

is live, it will be before Christmas.

529

So everyone should go on

there and look and see.

530

Get a few ideas.

531

Katie Bell: Thank you very much.

532

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you again.

533

Katie Bell: Thank you.

534

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you

so much for listening right

535

to the end of this episode.

536

Do remember that you can get the

full back catalogue and lots of free

537

resources on my website vickiweinberg.

538

com.

539

Please do remember to rate and review

this episode if you've enjoyed it

540

and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

541

Thank you again and see you next week.