The Think Free Rebellion is a personal choice. It is the choice to make yourself the authority and author of your life.
Today is going to be a little bit different because it's not going to be so much of a discussion as I want to share some ideas with you, and it's about changing the nature of the group and the base of the group. And then so I'm going to run through some ideas. If you have any questions about anything as I'm going along, just interrupt me. I'm going to run through this and then we'll see. You can see whether you agree or disagree.
OK, so. The idea so the basic idea is. That if we have a group that's formed around relationships. And people talk about sharing different perspectives. There's always a basis for conflict. And so whenever you're dealing with conflict, you have to look at where's the point of agreement? And so I've been giving it a lot of thought to thinking of. What's really behind, like, personally, most my philosophical view and where this conflict come in in terms of it.
So I want to start with a personal basis and as to how why, I think thinking free is the key to everything. And then we're working back. OK, so. When we talk about relationships. Or anything, we're talking about different things because we got different experiences and different perspectives, and so oftentimes that means there's a clash when people think they're talking about the same things. But actually they're coming from a completely different angle. You know, the thing about if six blind people come and see an elephant, they all have a different experience and they call each other lawyers because they don't understand from that frame of reference.
So, OK, so. The question of what's between you and your perfect life or your perfect relationship, now I want to share my my model of what about that? What causes us to what's between us and them perfect basis and explain, OK, hear me and explain why from my perspective. So. What are we looking at here is. I think. That based on my life, I spent four or five years studying happiness. Before relationships and really what meant what happiness, what makes someone happy is basically we have a blueprint, we have a blueprint that we can't change.
It's genetically what we believe to be. And so becoming happy is a is a journey of growth, is a journey of growth into becoming more of who we are and expressing that potential that we have. So this is kind of representing that journey. Now, what happens for a lot of people, for most people probably is somewhere they get swayed off course and so in terms of relationship can become stale or they can become bored, they can become bitter or even things go really wrong.
And they end up with an in somewhere that is quite toxic. So. What is so I'm looking at what why do people get swayed off? And the airline industry, they have a one in 60 rule. So basically, a flight path is similar to this that an airplane will set off and it's aiming for wherever it's going to land. But all the time it's getting buffeted by wind, by turbulence, by all these factors which take it, of course.
So in the airline industry, the one in 60 rule is that for every 60 miles an aeroplane travels, every one degree off is going to be one mile off. So, James, earlier in atomic talks about if if an aeroplane sets off from Los Angeles, it's four and a half degrees of. By the time it would have reached New York, it's instead in Washington, D.C.. And so I think that's an analogy for what happens in our life and in our relationships, is that that's what we're meant to be.
And then we get swayed off so we don't actually become the. So why do we get swayed? And that's really three things. There's. Ignorance. So in the example of the planes, planes have crashed when you act, when there was a miscommunication between them and the air traffic control so that they thought they were in a different place. And so obviously, they're like crashing into a mountain when they weren't expecting anything to be there. So what happens to us individually is we're born helpless, we born not knowing anything.
And. So we have to learn the ways of the world because we can't become. When we operate in the world. Like from day one. So we grow up helpless and we grow up and our parent or caregiver is looking after us, but they're also telling us all the traditions or all the rules and all the customs of our society. And that's the way that we pass on information generation to generation, and a lot of that is useful because otherwise we'd start from day one.
We have fire, we have technology, we have everything that we have because we don't have to start from the beginning again. And so then we've institutionalized these ways of passing on values and beliefs and expectations, and this comes from the wider culture, from so that we get to school, we've got the media, which is giving us certain ideas and values, religion and all of these kind of things. So they're basically giving us the map. But the map that they're giving us isn't necessarily Ahmet.
So we talked about the fairy tale framework, it is one of the biggest things that sways people off in terms of relationships. And. This is a mistake and this is something that we're told and we set up with expectations and beliefs and assumptions that aren't actually true. And so there's a lot of things and even without meaning to like when you're five years old and the teachers tell you, shut up, no one wants to hear from you when they say, like when you're made to feel stupid, all of these things become lessons to us.
All of these things become fears that we don't stand out. We don't say what we really mean. And so all of this. Sways us off our individual unique path. So this free, otherwise, what is free, why so why is ignorance, and it may be that we don't know what we're doing. We don't know, like we haven't got an accurate map. Or it may be that the assumption or the expectation or belief wasn't true, then the other two are fair.
And a lot of the times the fear comes from the idea of public speaking is is the biggest fear because. Of we are afraid of what other people tell us, because we've we've been told certain things and we've learnt certain things along in our childhood, so that makes it frightening to stand out. It makes it frightening to stand up for what you believe as opposed to what you're told. What everyone else thinks is true and said in the other way is.
That there's all these shiny objects, so. Like the get rich quick schemes, the idea, the hacks and the shortcuts and all these kind of things which are tell us that we need to. Do certain things, say a certain thing, so in terms of relationships. Like what stops us fear? So, for example, if you're dating is the fear of standing out is the fear of rejection. If you're in a relationship and is the fear of being honest, the fear of being vulnerable.
So what's the shiny object? So it may be that someone so attractive. That your state, of course, because they're not the perfect person, but they're so hot, or it may be that you desperately want it to work with a certain person who is an. The person who is going to be right for the. OK. All right, so we're looking. So where was I? So in terms of being swayed off by other people's like by by media references and things, I just want to use one example is does everyone needs to be Dimond's?
The rest of the base diamonds, so basically it's the story of why in 1930, 10 percent of engagement engagement rings with diamond rings. Now, something like 75, 75 to 80 percent. And so basically, that was a concerted, concerted advertising campaign for a generation of women, so Dimond's didn't have a lot of use and the birth had funded this big expedition to find precious resources. And they found these mines of diamonds and they had this glut of diamonds that there was no market for.
And so there wasn't really any value. And so they tasked advertising agencies for about 30 years to try and work out different approaches to find the market. And essentially what they did. Was like the winning campaign was they targeted a whole generation of women from about 15 to 20. So this was in the nineteen thirties. So all the women who were of, like, thinking about being proposed to them and basically told them a dime and lost forever, if your boyfriend proposes to you and he doesn't use a diamond ring, he doesn't mean it forever.
He doesn't really care. And so what happened was this there's this pressure on the girls that if they had an engagement ring wasn't diamond, it was a sense of you've accepted an engagement ring from a boy that doesn't care about you. And so they then put pressure on two boys and say, well, I want a diamond ring and. Then they came out with all these campaigns, like, if your boyfriend doesn't like what what's a lifetime of happiness worth, isn't it worth a couple of months of your life?
A couple of months of wages. And so basically in the generation. The diamond ring became. Like standard. For no other reason than the fact that the birds needed needed the marketplace to sell their diamonds. And so when we look at the messages that we get from the media. And when you look at magazines, when you look at TV, all of them are exist. Their business model is to exist in order to sell advertising. And so when you're looking at social media, it's basically the same thing that as it said, like if you if you aren't paying for something, you are the product.
And so when we look at. So when we look at the way that like and I'm not here with the conspiracy theory, I'm not bashing. Economics or money, but what we have to look at the motivation of. Advertising and media is basically to sell stuff. And so how so when we look at. Where does that lead to, like a commercial marketplace leads to? Being creating, I want to use the food industry as an example, so the food industry, like if you if you have a raw potato, is not really worth very much.
If you make it into chips, is worth a lot more. And if you make it into crisps, is worth a lot more. But what you've really done is you've taken a basic food and you've made it less nutritious. So. So the food industry works by pandering to our taste buds, as in sugar fat. So. And so, like we now, decades later, have an obesity crisis. Because they're creating the food that's going to that's going to compel us, make us crave and make us buy their products.
And so it becomes a rush to who can have the most sugar, who can have the most. So. In this way, so that it becomes a bit different and we have those suits. And so that's really what happened over 30, 40 years in the food industry, and so why we now have an obesity crisis. Now, when you look at. In terms of information and social media. Or social media is. Their business model is to sell our attention.
And the way that they get our attention is by. You know, things that things like Areva polarize us and outrageous, and so there's this culture of outrage and it's like people talking about in social dilemmas and other places that basically what you see in your news feed. Is individual to what you believe. Because so, for example, if you want to advertise on Facebook, you're not allowed to say anything that might target someone or might make someone feel uncomfortable.
Because if it if it's challenging, it makes someone feel uncomfortable, they're not going to spend as long on Facebook. So Facebook blocks those those ads out. And so basically. What we all get in our face. All the people that we agree with, the groups and the pages and things that we already agree, so we're not.
And what that leads us to is groupthink, which is basically where people who believe the same thing. Make poor decisions because they don't have the diversity of opinion. So. OK, so so basically. What I'm saying is. The world out there is kind of pushing us. To fit into it is is easy to sell us stuff, whether it's products with Armani or whether it's an ideology. And when you look like so you can see this play out in the recent Trump.
And to a lesser extent in Brexit, in terms of. We don't. Actually get to see the facts, we get to see the conspiracy theories, we get to see the dramatics and the polarized sides, and so it pushes people apart and it stops open and honest. Debate. OK, so so that's where we get swayed off by ignorance or by assumptions or beliefs or expectations that aren't actually true, and then we get swayed off by fear because our narrative makes us afraid, to be honest.
Makes us feel unworthy, makes us feel we're missing out or and so that's how we stray, we stray in terms of when something is easy. So so that's really the three ways that we get straight, that we stray off our path. So does that make sense so far? Could you repeat what the freeways are, please? Yeah, so it's ignorance, which which is like not having an accurate path or being so out of fear and desire.
OK, so the next be able to talk about is the difference between when we navigate that path. The way that we get swayed off in terms of fear and desire and often also ignorance is by emotions. Now. I'm like sometimes like when I describe things is very logical, sometimes it can seem cold. And. So I want to talk about why that is. Is that. There is when we say, for example, when we're talking about a relationship, when we're in a relationship, we're in it for the emotion and the benefit of being in the relationship is the emotional side the way that we can judge.
The quality of a relationship. Is by the emotions. When we feel good, we're on a path. When we feel bad, it's because we're off our path. So the why and that and. Why don't we evaluate the relationships is all emotional. However, the problem is that people. Use emotion to navigate. So when you're making a decision so like if, for example, if you had a GPS that worked on navigation, it said, OK, we're going to go down this road because because this is really pretty.
Right. I really like this route. We're going to take this route. You'd end up in a different place. And so when we navigate our emotion, when we navigate our relationship or even the life. Based on emotion. We take the wrong path because the role of navigation is is mediating what we want with where we are. And if we disregard the reality of where we are and like the map of the land. Then we just go where we want to go, and that's where we get switched off.
So logic is the bridge between what you want and where you want to go, so logic is a terrible reason to be in a relationship is a terrible reason to judge. Where people overthink is when where they try to judge their relationship through logic. So the emotion is for how the relationship's going. You judge based on emotion, why you want to be in a relationship is for the emotional feeling. But when you make emotional like so like when people really, really attach someone and they say the same people who are in abusive relationships, the guy that I love him and, you know, I, I, I can't leave, so.
And that's all because we were attached to certain outcome, because we were afraid of something happening, when we make decisions from that, that's where we go, of course. OK, so. Thinking freely is about looking at why are you doing what you're doing? And is it because it is what's on your path, or is it because of what you've been told is a dogma? Is it a false assumption? Is it a false expectation? Is it an emotional decision?
Or is they relate to where you are, where the logic like where the path is, where the reality of the situation and where you want to go to? So going back to the airline, so so it's really about thinking freely of bias, and that can be emotional bias, cognitive bias.
So there's lots of ways that we cognitively biased. So, for example, one example in the airline industry is that they found that they were I this was in the late 60s and when I looked into a lot of crashes. They saw that it was like the pilot was having a bad day with was tired or something, for some reason he was off that day. Now, up till then, pilots were like then the captain, then the authority, they were like the gods of the.
Of the three. And so out of respect and out of fear, no one challenged them. And so what they found was people were aware of problems, they were aware that they were going off track, they were aware that. Like they shouldn't be doing what they were doing. But no one challenged the pilot. And said this was two or three flights that ended in crashes and from the evidence in the black box and that they were able to work out.
And so what they now have is they have something called crew resource management. And so it's basically a way in which. The crew, like the pilots, have to actively encourage differences of opinion and diversity of opinion and to make sure that there's no doubts. So and. So what that does is it provides more safety mechanisms and so so. Like the airline industry had a similar. Failure right to the medical industry. And it's been compared. I think it's Murphy said in blackbox thinking compared the two and the airline industry now has almost minimal human error.
Where is the medical industry still has huge amounts of. Doctor, a medical professional error, and the reason is that the airlines. Never used like. The airlines look at the problem and I encourage people to. Share mistakes, so when when there's like a near Miss Parlette that there's never any repercussions. For saying this is like Mrs.. This is a mistake I did where is in the medical industry? There has been that kind of like doctors of gods and surgeons of gods, and you can't question them.
And so what's happened is they've hidden. Mistakes, and they tried to bamboozle them and for fear of being sued, they've not accepted blame. And so what is created is creating an environment where people can't admit mistakes, where people can't, and basically they're not learning from their mistakes.
So. So so that's so that's where the authority by and then it's like sunk costs, where we've invested so much in something that we've invested so much in the relationship. I'm going to leave it this social if everyone else is doing this. So there's lots of different parties that we we have. OK, so now I want to talk about is that does anyone have any questions about their. Would you say that the bias is like an ego thing when you're doing it to yourself?
Sam, I know best. I know everything when you don't because you're not looking at your mistakes. It can be that that probably. Well, I suppose yeah, that that's a different slant on it, but it's usually like there's no party bias. Like, for example, there was a study that. Of Milgrom, like, if you like Milgrom and Ashes studies of obedience, where basically people would give electric shock to the point of killing people because they were told to.
And this was a lot of studies after the Nazis of why why so many Nazis go along with Hitler. And I found so so, for example, the first study were people in white coats, like if you're at Stanford University and someone's in a white coat, you need to do this is an authority. If someone is if the government tells you to do it, it's authority. We do it and. So. Yes, yes. Is believing that someone knows better than you.
Really? OK. I'm not sure if I've understood how the black box thinking is related to the maybe the relationship and going, of course, and happiness. OK, so the essential point is that it stayed on course. And so the black box thinking is an example of how that goes, of course, so it's OK. So, yeah. So that was Moomaw organizational viewpoint. And. That was related to the idea that if you don't have diversity of opinion.
Like, if you don't have different views that challenge you. You believe that you're right. So. It, as individuals and even in the relationship, is a closed system, so we only know what's within this like. A certain map within. And our map is not completely accurate to reality. And so the only way that we can get an accurate map of reality is by different opinions. And so what happens when you're on Facebook and they're like penned to to keep your attention?
Means that you don't get any different opinions. So. If you don't find other sources. Of ideas and opinions different to your own. Then you're like the pilot who's sure that they're going headlong, but not aware of the mistakes that we're. Yeah, yeah, so it's really close minded, this is Open-mindedness. So you're saying you kind of you need you need corrective feedback to make sure you're on course yet?
Yeah, so, yeah, because otherwise you only see what you buy in terms in order to grow and to have a clearer map. Okay, so now to bring this more directly to relationships, I'm just going to share with. OK, so there's lots of types of relationships, but really I want to summarize them into two groups. So there's above the line, which I call artisanal relationships. And basically, the the above the line is based in freedom.
It's based in freedom where both individuals are free to be themselves. To be accepted, to be supported and to be enjoyed as themselves. And the below the line relationships. Or. Relationships where one isn't free to be themselves. And so. It's a relationship that's based in control, manipulation or at worst, false. And abuse. And so the fundamental difference. Between them is. We've got three lines here, so if we start with the above the line relationship, it starts.
With the individuals have integrity. And so if your partner has integrity. Then that the response is that they will trust you, so you have a trusting environment. And. When you have a trusted environment, you're free to have a more fun climate. So the climate and the relationship then becomes fun. If you come to your relationship with respect to genuine respect for the person, meaning, like you understand, you listen and you care about them, then the response is going to be loyalty.
And. That creates a climate of appreciation. If you come with generosity and with kindness. Then the response is going to be empathy and compassion. And so the climate that creates a climate where both feel free to communicate honestly. And so this the above the line is where both. Individuals are coming, said the three key ingredients are integrity, respect and kindness. Now. They really work on a spectrum. Has he got a spectrum from integrity to the C?
You've got a spectrum from respect to content. And a spectrum from coyness to criticism. And so integrity is based on someone who's honest and has ethics. Where the deceit is basically dishonesty and pragmatism do what's practical rather than what's right. Respect is based on a basis of understanding and empathy, where his contempt is from a basis of judgment and empathy. So kindness is based on consideration and generosity. Where his criticism is thoughtlessness and selfishness. And so if someone comes.
To a relationship with anxiety. Then the response is going to be dowl, which leads to a culture of an acclimatising. If someone comes with hostility, it's the same to the Dow, at least anxiety. And if someone comes with a foundation of contempt, the other person is going to is going to lead the response of stonewalling, which is then hostility. And these two stonewalling and potentially this can be interchanged, but criticism then can lead to defensiveness or stonewalling, which then leads to poor a climate of poor communication.
OK, so does anyone have any questions on that, Paul? Can I ask where did. That framework come from, is that your own stuff that you put together? Yeah. Oh, it's very good. Thank you. OK, so so basically the main idea from that is that we need to be operating above the line and so the above the line actually comes from power versus force. So I think I've got. Yes, so the idea of solar power versus force is from David Hawkins, and the gist of his argument is that there is a line.
And below the line is a force that people use for society to use force. So it's about control. It's about we have to make people do this. We have and we have to. Somehow, however, it's manipulation, whether it's controlling the propaganda, whether it's punishment, manipulation, any of those things. We have to meet someone there at. Power is those people who are above the line. And so. The difference between power and force is that force you're making something happen.
Power is that you have the power and allowing it to happen. So it means that you have the power that you you inspire people rather than coerce them. So I'll just show you. David Hawkins, graphic now. So basically, he goes from shame to guilt to apathy to grief, the fear, the desire to anger, to pride, and then courage is where you're above the line. That's where he puts the line. Now, wherever we decide on the line and wherever we agree, I, I don't think the numbers are so important, but I think we have a general idea that there's a line where we operate above where there's the best of us, and there's a line that we operate below that we know we could do better.
So. The key to integrity, respect and kindness is really us individually living above the line. Because when we're below the line, if we are in insane desire, grief, apathy, we don't feel so good about ourselves, we need something from the relationship. Whereas when we're above the line. We don't need. And we feel more free to let other people be themselves. So. The say, the philosophical basis for the free rebellion. Is that we have.
Since like the agricultural like ten thousand years, we formed a society and we needed to share certain ideas. And what grew from that were institutions of social control. So we're talking about the government, we talking about church where the two predominant ones. And. What grew from that was an idea that. I think probably is a religious idea is that we savages who need to be controlled. And so the basis of a lot of doctrine and dogma is that if people aren't controlled, they'll be savages who right still cheat, lie, kill each other.
And so what that leads down to is the idea that we need an authority to tell us what to do. And so. And so, like, if you're going to fight wars, if you're going to get an election, which we've seen in the Trump thing, that. The basis. For power is our attention, our vote are us paying, us buying stuff. And so there's a lot of conditioning control and manipulation to get compliance. Because we need we needed you know, when you look at somebody watching Game of Thrones again recently, when you look at that, it's all kind of playing the game for their for individual power.
But when you look at the people who are fighting the war. A lot of wars we don't have, we're just the same as them. But someone wanted to make a power grab, someone wanted a resource, and so people lose their lives. So. When it comes down to sake, we need shared ideas, and I'm not saying we should. Like for society, we need to share ideals of society will work, if we didn't believe in money, society wouldn't work if we didn't have an agreed code of conduct.
The problem is. While we've become stronger, richer and more powerful as societies. Individually. All levels of happiness has levels of anxiety, levels of relationship. Happiness, high levels of suicide, levels of depression. Have escalated. Because. When it comes down to you individually. What mangku individually is not for the good of society is not good for the. Company that's paying for the Adva, it isn't good for the media that's selling to businesses. And so what happens when you look at relationships, what's happened is this idea of family values and if the relationship breaks?
It's your individual error. But when you have fifty five percent of relationships breaking, that's no individual error, that's a systemic problem. So the basis of free thinking. Is that people are mostly inherently good. But they do bad things when they feel bad. And so when people are below the line. That's when they do things. That all? Destructive, that's when they do things, that's when they lie. That's when they're. Judgmental. That's when critical.
And so my philosophical belief is that if everyone was happy, we'd have a kind of world. And the best solution for a happier world. Is for happy individuals. So the basis of the free thinking rebellion. And the basis for the group. Is looking at. Individually. Because it's not for us to agree for anyone else. Everyone has to agree for themselves. But it's the agreement. That we don't have control, we don't need to have anyone agreeing with us, we don't need to anyone else to agree with us, we don't need to.
For any particular ideology. But we need to be clear, we need to be clear what we were operating on, is it operating for us to become who we meant to become for our blueprint? Or is it? That we've even swayed emotionally. Or from ignorance or from some kind of dogma. So everyone is legal for their own life. And we're here to. Consider what we believe. And. But ultimately, all of us are responsible for our life and our choices.
So that's the idea of the freethinking rebellion. Any questions or comments? How does a person like the carrier freethinking with. So and so this isn't meant to be comprehensive, but this is the shared basis of the group moving forward. So. Free thinking is you look here, why am I doing mundane? So, OK, I'm not I'm not where I want to be, so I'm not looking at happiness. Why am I switched off? Is it because I something like you have to be really honest.
Did I get swayed off by a short cut? Did I get or did I was afraid to do something? Or did I just not know? So you have to look at what the beliefs, what the assumptions and what the expectations are, if you're unhappy, it's because of the expectations. If you aren't happy with where you are, is because of the assumptions that you've made that have led you to that, to navigate in that way. Does that make sense?
So just looking inwards, introspect to see what you've done wrong? Yeah, yeah.
It's not necessarily. Yes, yet ultimately. Really. Yes. Like the basic way is to I think is like the friction, you know, like when you have. Two sounds so like basically how do you shop at night if you if you have, like a stone that sharpens the knife because the friction of it takes away what was there like, what was there but didn't need to be? So really, when I look at relationships and I talk to people about relationships, it's not everyone thinks that they need to learn.
They need to learn what it takes to ascend. What message do I send? What what do I write in my profile? It's none of those things. It's really what are you doing? What are you believing that isn't true because a relationship really is to people. You get to their core and they connect. That's why you need the problems between them are and this is what you see when it comes to if you looking at if you look from relationship advice or dating advice on Facebook or YouTube, it's going to be you're going to get millions of views and it's going to be send this text.
It's going to be these are the exact words you need to send to have girls falling that you face. And so what that does is that tells you I need to I need to know this. And then it's all set up with the sales funnel that tells you this is this privileged information and I'm only going to share it with you. And you have to make it was the line. You have to make sure that you're not going to. If I hear anyone using it falsely or something, I'm going to take it away.
Or this is the secret thing that I've got. And my friend who revealed it, you know, like basically all this is setting up that they know something that you don't know. And really, you know, everything you need to know, you just have learned some things that you are getting in the way.
And a lot of that comes down to see the thing with that sorry, I'm not sure if I'm breaking the rules because neither am I allowed to kind of just freely. Yeah. Yeah.
So so in the same way like this isn't hear me telling like today is because I want to share a new basis. But the standard I like, I'll share my ideas, but my ideas have no more value than anyone else's. So it's yeah. That's, that's the basis. So now you've got the exact spirit of it. Sure, it's OK. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, go ahead, I'm sorry, this is the kind of condition we'll get Sandra now.
Go ahead. OK, so because of the pressure, I'm going to say it's OK, Sandra, go ahead. I've got something on my mind, but it's not just jumping literally.
Oh, yeah, I'm thinking yes, it's an individual.
As an individual, you're going through this process and you're asking yourself these questions.
If you're a single person, you have several degrees of freedom within which to navigate and internalize and question yourself and do a self-assessment.
If you are part of a relationship, you're in a relationship and you are doing this introspection, you are arriving at probably more questions, but you're also probably drawing certain conclusions if the person you're in a relationship with is not open to any shifts in relationship or any changes within you.
How do you move that process forward?
Navigating navigate in that scenario. Well, to me, that sounds like. So let me just go back to this. So if someone to be above the line relationship is based in accepting how you are, who you are, and that means changing. And what that means is that they change around that and you still act with integrity, still respect who you are and still generous. Because if you if someone doesn't accept that, then that means it's a below the line relationship and the fact that you have that means sooner or later this other things that they're going to disagree on.
And that's where it becomes about, because if someone isn't accepting what you believe, how you act. You're not free to be you then it's a below the line relationship because it's based in control. Which may mean that if you want to evolve and be the best you you may have to get out of that relationship. That's where I was heading it.
Yes. Yes. The real value of this the real point of this is that these are the three must haves in any relationship. So you need someone who's got integrity, who's got respect, he's got kindness, because when you have that, you can have the communication. If someone says no, this is the way it is and I'm not going to accept anything else, then that leads to the bloodline relationship. So can I can I ask you to give a definition of respect?
What does it mean when you say you respect someone?
OK, so. It means that I see you for who you are. And I respect you for who you are, so please respect. So I see that who you are and I value you as the individual that you are. Is that good enough? Yeah, yes, it's basic, it's basically means. Taking you as an individual, not to fill a role. Not to fit certain criteria, but to be. But then acceptance is pretty subjective then, because if I say a person, a amines, I value that I look up to that person.
B, they might be living their life according to their own authenticity.
But if I say I don't respect that person, that means it's my values that they're not living up to. So it's subjective then respect. Not everybody is going to command respect from subjective.
Yeah, OK. So. Respect means yeah, yeah, is subjective because we respect different people, so the right person for you is not going to be the right person for someone else because you're going to respect them based on your values. So there's a level of respect based on someone's the human.
I think everyone's based on someone's work. A human. A human being, a human being, because someone is a human being. Some of the living, like some of the living creature and animal, deserves respect. If someone's a human being, they deserve respect. We will be saying essentially the same. When so when you say deserves does does anybody deserve respect because wouldn't it be more the case that respect is earned? I mean, is everybody default?
I think there's a certain level that your human being. So a lot of people talk about high quality, low quality and that because it doesn't sound enough to say, well, you're a human being, therefore you deserve my respect.
Because, I mean, take the instance. I've recently fallen out with an old school friend, and I have to say I've lost all respect for her because she she drinks heavily, which is fine because I've done it in the past myself to self serve. But when I spoke to her about it. She doesn't want to progress in life at all. And my honest response is I've lost respect for the. So I can't say I'm going to give her respect, but just because she's a human being, yeah, a person has to have some sort of way of meeting my standards of respect or value.
So what I mean is. As a human being, there's a certain level of respect as like the base level. Then if someone does something. Bad like if someone you know. Is cruel, whatever, then, you know, that's that's. Like that goes down in the respect, but then there are people like your friend and you can understand the situation, but she's not. So she's lower down in the respect. And in order to be in a relationship, you have to be with someone that.
You value so there has to be some shared values. So you're looking at someone so like above and below the line is a line of someone you respect, you have enough shared values with that. You respect them as a human being and you respect their ethics and morals. And so you respect them enough. So when someone falls below the line. Then you you respect them as human, but not as someone that you want to be in a relationship with.
I think a more appropriate word for that base level of respect may be that you acknowledge their right to be a human being with certain privileges and whatever, whatever.
Yeah, I think I agree with Sonya. If they if they just on the basic level, one might not use the word respect. I'm not just, okay, you're a human being. You have a post, you you're entitled to live your life as you see fit. But I'm not going to say I respect you.
I don't that's that's the point. So there's a base level that we treat all human beings at, which is we acknowledge their right to exist, to breathe air, to whatever, to be, to speak, et cetera, et cetera. And you allow them that that. Right. But to have respect to me, that is something that is an active and active thing and it is something that is earned.
And when you when you hold someone in respect, you hold them in esteem. It's not enough to say that at the base level, base level was at the base.
But when you actually respect someone actually looking up to them and saying, yeah, you actually use an additional criteria to differentiate among those people that have this, that you have this and that people.
Yeah, I think you show respect to everyone, but you respect. But there's yeah. There's a certain criteria. You should regard. Yeah, that's where the terminology, but, yeah, I think I think that's an important distinction that Sandra's making, because, again, when someone's at the base level, I'm not showing them respect.
I can show them regard, but not respect. And I think respect really means you're looking up to someone and it's not everybody that's going to have your values that you will actually look up to them. I think we would like to start with a little bit more clarity. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I think you you interact with the person to get to to be able to respect somebody.
You have to know something about the person. You have to interact with that person on some level. And it is that information that you use to filter. Will you use your it filters through your own cultural filters?
Yeah. Respect is not. And yeah.
And based on what you see as good in that person or bad and you go through your checklist even though it might be subliminal, in a sense, you arrive at a position that I respect that person.
If there is no interaction then really you can't say that you respect somebody. Truly I think.
And still, it's sort of like I mean, I agree that there's some people you have in your life that you wouldn't want to have your life to be what you would. But if this I personally that we're all like divine from God, like we all are created in God's image. So it's not really for me just because somebody is doing something I don't agree with, to not have at least a full respect for them as an equal on this earth, like everybody has got the right to walk their own path.
It is not really for me to say if something's right or wrong. Lisa, you're very generous. I'm afraid I don't see it people doing well, but that's what I got. That's what I was referring to as regard for people for the right of a human being to exist in a society with the rights and privileges of any other human being.
But respect, I think, is an active phenomenon.
And it is something that you go through a process of examination, and it comes from the cues that you see from the other person. You don't you don't just automatically respect an individual because. Because that's just the individual you have to have some kind of interactive some information. And that information is going to is going to be looked at by you, and it is on that basis that you determine whether or not they deserve to have your respect.
You have to scrutinize it's not by default is the same as like Rob was saying in terms of like a relationship, though.
So if if someone's done something that you don't respect anymore, it's the best mobile app that you don't respect what the person is like that I sort of do. I show respect to people that deserve an earned respect or do I want to be somebody that's a respectful human being that shows everybody respect no matter what what that does?
What's the difference? What's the difference between the person and the right? You're saying that they've done an act that you don't respect. Yeah, but how can you respect them if they're living in the way that they're acting in a way that you don't respect?
You know what? I think what we're saying is so that would be the difference between wanting to be in a relationship with them or not. What you could still treat them with like a certain level of respect in terms of the way your mannerisms come across to them if they've done something that you don't respect.
I used to personally work in children alcohol treatments. And I'm only saying that because you mentioned both your friend having a problem with alcohol. Now, there's all walks of life that used to come in to see me personally, people who didn't have to struggle together, who were living out on the streets and didn't know whether you sleep or not. Nice. Where to politicians? I worked with journalists. I worked with all sectors of the society magistrates. The one thing that they had in common was that addiction issue.
I didn't agree with it, but I respected that each and every one of them had a reason for doing it. And each and every one of them had hidden things in terms of what they came and they told me about was only a very small snapshot of their lives and each and every one of those things that are hidden. If you're going on a date talking about relationships, that's that's the basis of this of this group. If you're going on a date, you're not going to know everything about somebody.
Within a couple of hours. You can live with somebody for years on end and still not know that other person. Then you find out things that you didn't want to find out about them going on to respect. It doesn't mean you have to agree with what someone's behavior is. It just means that you you have to consider that there's things in in their lives and that they've they've made choices decision, whether you agree with it or not, those choices are right for them.
And that's something to be respected. Just say so. I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to cut it, but I'm just wondering whether we are confusing the difference between being respectful to somebody and having respect for someone. Yeah, because being respectful to someone means, you know, you treat them with some form of decency, whether you think they're a total loss to society. But having respect for them is around agreeing with their decision and actions.
So, yeah, I think that's a good point. So in terms of in terms of the relationship, I think you have the. Of course, you have to value them, you have to respect them. But the key thing is you also have to be respectful. And you have to respect that, as you said, Sandra, what about if one person doesn't want to? Well, the respect really is the part. That means that I don't agree with what you do.
But I respect your choice to have that. So. In terms of people, every every couple is going to have a splitting point and a lot of couples that will get together and they'll look for someone who has exactly the same values, exactly the same ideas with the idea that they're less likely to have a difference. But everyone sooner or later will come to a point where they disagree. Like point blank on something and the ability to. Respect each other.
Even when you disagree with the choices is the key to the above the line. So I think there is an element of value that you have to have a respect as a value as as how you value people. But it's it's respect also in terms of I understand you, I don't treat you as an object, I don't treat you as a role as a partner, as a lover, as a wife, as a husband, as a boyfriend, as a girlfriend.
I treat you as a person. And I want to know what makes you make those decisions. And even though I might not agree with them and there's a line of where you agree, because if you don't value someone, then that's not someone you want to be in a relationship with. So there's respect in terms of valuing, but it's also the being respectful in terms in terms of. Understanding and allowing them their choices. I think we also have to be careful about what we think is deserving of respect in another person and.
Sometimes there may be something that's that that person is grappling with that we don't like and doesn't fit in with, you know, the way we want to live our lives. But is it that that that thing may make you lose respect for the person? I think there are two elements to that. If a person is trying to say it's an addiction, for want of a better example, do you automatically lose respect because they have this addiction?
Or do you look at them and see that it's an issue and that they're actively trying to.
To resolve it, to work on it, do you in other words, in my mind, if I have a partner who has an issue and they're actively trying to resolve it, I think that's worthy of my respect. I you know, not necessarily I'm just using it in broad terms, I would think that that is worthy of my respect and that I would not necessarily lose my respect for them. But if it's somebody who has an issue and does not hear that it's impacting negatively on me and on the relationship, then that is our pathway for losing respect for me.
It's. So the key to respect is that you is not judging someone on what they do and I not saying that you would accept it, but it's going like this is the behavior. So and like Alan talks about, you know, people in circumstances, there's a whole chain of things that led them to that and you can look at the behavior and go, OK, I'm not perfect, but really respect is about, OK, what has gone on, what has happened, what has led them to that?
And it may be. Like I would say for a lot of people. Addiction is going to be like for most people who are partners of addicts. They're probably better off leaving the relationship. Because the nature of addiction, Alan, you can jump in if you want, but the nature of addiction means that you love that addiction more than anything else. And some people recover, but otherwise. So when you blindly saying, I love someone, regardless, that that isn't helping them with their addiction and it's creating so it's respecting yourself, but also respecting the partner, but it's going beyond the big headline of what happened to understand the person behind it and what they're dealing with.
I don't know if you when you when you say respect is about not judging, it sounds like you're speaking of compassion and seeing not the superficial surface stuff like, say, for example, to an alcoholic or something that behavior, but seeing the human being underneath or inside. So I think that's quite a deep thing to say. Don't judge, but maybe to have compassion for who they are underneath.
Yeah, I agree. I'm sorry. Hi, everyone. And I agree. I think a lot of it is about self. It's about compassion. It's about being nonjudgmental. And also, I do think there's a lot of personal choice. So I think you've got to decide how much energy you want to give something. And I think we all have a sort of tolerance levels. So I believe that you can do what you can and then ultimately you've got to leave it down to the other person because you can't control what other people do.
You can only control how you deal with it or what you decide to how you decide to handle it, whether you decide to stay or go, whatever. But again, it's about how you view yourself and what you feel like you deserve as well. So I think a lot of the time we are people are in relationships because they're fearful of being on their own. I think there's something wrong because of the I don't know, the Disney, whatever is out there that makes you think this is a perfect and your romantic comedies and whatnot, but you kind of step away from that and think, well, hang on a minute, you know, what's the reality?
The reality is how do I want to feel what's right for me? So I think you can give people as much time and energy as you can because we are supposed to be compassionate.
But I think there's a level where you kind of then have to sort of step away or make a choice in this respect for yourself, as well as respect for understanding their choices, but also understanding your makeup and understanding. Is this going to drag me down? So I know we missed some things in the in the chat, couldn't keep up, but there was a desire. S.A.M. talked about design. Yeah, I think it's natural. Desire is natural.
The problem is. Same in the food industry is like where sugar is the desire for now, but a long term desire is for health. The where the desire for short term gratification is what slices off from ultimately getting. What we really want. Long term. Yeah, and it's it's the relationship, a relationship becomes difficult because when you're on your own, it's easy to what's not easy, but it's easier to be above the line and and to, like, know what you need and whatever it becomes much more complex.
When you're when you have when you involve someone else, when you're in a relationship, because then you have the.
And I just share this this image as well, but really, like the graph of so much of wall mastery, is that you have self mastery. But then when you start dating that, Mostri drops down because there's a challenge of involving someone else of staying, like having lost her yourself and staying at that level, when you're trying to attract someone's attention and when you're being attracted, of course, maybe by the wrong people, then that goes up. And then when you're in a relationship, then again, it initially dips and there's a struggle of learning skills so that you can have that same level with someone else or a higher level.
Rob, before you leave dessert, because I'm thinking that. I do agree that desire is in need, but I think it is how you deal with desire, your ability to to control, to manage, so that desire does not overtake everything and to balance it with logic and all the other things that go towards making balanced decisions and balance out the effect of of desire and all your choices, the choices that you make, because that is that's all based on emotion rather than any sort of logic.
And to my mind, you will become exhausted very, very quickly, because that is a very high level of emotional activity to run with your desires as one wherever they take you, and also dangerous. So it is learning how to manage that desire.
Yes, it takes a high degree of honesty to know, are you doing this because it's easy? Because it's because it's what you want to do. And you can see so many people believe what they want because it's what they want. Like this way, and you can say with covid, you can see with Trump that everyone is believing what they really want to believe. And you've got people believing outlandish theories. Because. Some emotional reason, so, for example, Bill Gates, we look at someone who warned everyone five years ago that there was a virus coming, when you look at someone who's given billions to solving human problems and then there's a whole group of people that are claiming that all the work is doing this is so we can control them, but.
You know, when I look at that and it's like, why, why, why would someone who is so rich in the last 10 years or whatever, he's been running the Gates Foundation instead of giving away 60 or 30 billion or whatever he's giving away, he could have made that again. So what will he have to gain from putting the chip in someone and yet it comes from people who fundamentally believe that rich people are bad people and. In a minute, them.
So I have a different I have a friend who's a go ahead. OK, I believe Bill Gates and his wife, they are genuine about your. A lot of the things they do are genuinely wrong, and they're definitely controlled by spiritual forces.
And of course, the people under those influences themselves do not know whether they are doing. All right or wrong? And everyone is right in their own eyes, and they believe they are genuinely they are genuine and they're trying to help people by the ways they help, don't always produce good outcomes. And in a way, it is controlled. Yep, well, I say sometimes people do the wrong things for the right reasons, but yeah, and again, we will have our beliefs.
But what I'm really saying is that. We all believe well, often we believe and we get blinded by what we feel and we find. I mean, this is this is a cognitive bias that we find the evidence. And now when you look at the Internet, there's so much evidence that we can find for any opinion that we want. And you're also given into short term gratification, instant gratification versus long term, any long term benefits, and so therefore we we take the easy route many times.
And as you see, going onto the Internet, you can click you don't check the source and you find an answer that fits in with what you really want to believe.
And so it reinforces the belief and you act on it.
Rob, does does does it ever scare you thus, you know, this effect that people just look for information that basically confirms things they already believe that it affects you? Or rather, how does it how do you think it affects you? Yes, I think that's a fundamental human nature, but I I like to look. Like, I'm really positive and I'm positive because I believe. My life is the result of my choices. In America, there are people storming the Capitol building.
There are people who want to leave the country and there are people that want to leave the country. When Franklin. And I think fundamentally what's going to go on and this is my personal view, that I think what politicians do, they're going to do. I don't think I have any influence on that. I don't think I have influence on the economic the way that the world is going to work. But I think that. The whatever the context and the environment, I mean, I have the choice of how I react to that.
So I look at what Victor Frankl in my search for, meaning that when in the concentration camps, he said some people were happy, some people were sad, some people were kind and generous. Some people were miserable and mean. And so I look fundamentally what. What affects me most is what I believe is how I navigate all the circumstances. So other people can do what they want. And that creates the context in the environment. And then I navigate to that.
So if you want to thank you very specifically how someone behaves in a relationship determines whether I stay in the relationship with them, but. So rather than control someone, I think you control the attention you give them to answer your question. It's kind of his beliefs, sorry, but when you say candor is right, so it kind of sounds like you're saying like, OK, you believe you have an internal locus of control.
You take responsibility for your own actions. Right. And you try to control your outcomes are fine. But what if I want to talk about the confirmation bias? What is your very understanding of relationships has gone through that same kind of echo chamber? Because like even like in groups like this, some people do, although people generally have like say some different views, there does seem to be like a similar issue of yours. What is your understanding of relationships has gone through that echo chamber?
So then you've developed a bias that's perhaps inaccurate, because I know that people understand us three experts about one situation in a relationship and you're going to get five different answers.
So I don't know if I've made myself clear enough yet perfectly clear in just to think in my head that one is that, yes, you can you can look.
You look look at experts, but you you are going to follow the expert you must believe in, so. By the. Yes, we believe, yes, you believe because and that's where you have to be really critical of. Like, do I know, is my map accurate? And you and I think you have to look at opposing ideas. Said people who disagree with you, but understand. So you're saying, for example, yes, here people are inherently growth minded.
But. There are there are going to be people who have a different point of view. So so, yes, that is an internal control. And actually, when I was studying happiness, that was one of the factors I look at research and people with an internal likes to control have more are happier than people who have an external. Are you aware that having you probably are you ever having to eat too much of an internal locus of control is appropriate a deterrent to happiness?
Yes, because like everything you can because you can take it to extremes. So the key of the free thinking thing, the free things. So why would someone take that to an extreme, because they then create that as dogma. And so no idea. Is holy, like you have to take like there's no idea and there's a spectrum and you have to take it to where it's effective and you have to, like, be able to drop it. So people who are successful.
Often men struggle because they're successful because of certain reasons. And then, like the nature of success means that those very things are going to be the things that are going to stop them from getting to the next level. So so, yes, it's been critical, is not taking even your own beliefs as dogma, but challenging everything. Which is a constant process of evolution then, so every decision needs to be why is on courses, of course, and the way that you know that is by the emotion of how you feel when you feel like.
So if you're feeling above the line, you know, you're on course when you feel bad, when you start to get grumpy, when the relationship starts having lied and the relationship and communication drops when there isn't the respect there, it's because it's dropped the line. And so it's a constant navigation and nobody's ever going to stay above. We're all fluctuating. And Janosz, you've been very patient. I think it's the easiest way to describe in my perspective or in my expression, it's you only see the word how you wanted to see.
Yeah, yeah, and it's it's it's recognising that it's recognizing. That you've got a limited view and knowing where that is going to hurt you. Yeah, but that's also depending on your current knowledge, you know, with the current filter, what you put in, that's why we need to take as much possible information in order to help us to solve that problem. So I'm not just only one to solution. You will have for one problem. You will have Hundert and you choose one of the best.
What is it for you for the current situation, what your current mood for your current state of mind?
Yeah, and it's also recognizing that I talked about emotion and thinking and logic. You can't always think of things so like you might have the resources and I'm like, yeah, this is it. But the way that, you know, is an interaction for the emotion if you try it and it doesn't work and you. It's it's a dance between the two that you get the right answer for you.
We have Saudi Arabia, which says that you have to have a sense of a sense of what's the word, self awareness.
If your self-awareness has to be in tune with what it is that you're trying to achieve. Otherwise, you won't know if you have achieved it, if you arrived at the point that is. Good for you or what what it is that you're seeking, and in my mind, I don't know that you can ever rest and say this is perfect. I have arrived at the perfect solution. I think we're always building, changing, tweaking because nothing is static.
And two people in a relationship, they're not static.
And so, to my mind, what I would look at myself and see what I need to do is I need to become resilient, to be able to navigate and maintain and and and hold the relationship together. Yeah, and that's really. I'll show you another resilience are the tools and the various things that I have acquired. And so, really, so this is another graphic, and it is about why mastery is essential for relationships. And so basically this is based on George Leonard talked about that in any field they establish and a dabbler is someone that just wants quick results.
And so in relationships, these are the people that when the honeymoon phase dies down, they're jumping off to someone else. And I always hoping that the next person. And so what happens is they never develop relationship skills or knowledge and the obsessive. If someone is like, tell me what books to read, I'm going to read this and how do I get this? And but what it is, is that they're looking for results next week. They're looking for immediate results.
And it's like, what do I have to do, what do I have to do? And they're looking for an immediate response. And so they don't actually learn. Anything about relationships and I don't get any better. And the hacker is someone he he talked about there being plateau's and they're just happy at this level and that's that's the level that they want to go to. And they're quite happy. They know it's not as good as it could be, but it means that they don't have to put in any extra effort.
And so the problem is like 15, 20 years, their partner comes to me, says, well, I'm not happy I'm leaving, and I go, well, we were fine, and that's when I had no idea. So I believe that the only way to really master relationships is mastery. And mastery is like, you know, when you're like you can go to a martial arts dojo, three, two sessions of fast track and five sessions and suddenly your blackpoll.
It means you do over and over and over again, and so that means. That sometimes you have to take a step back, and so being apprentice means that you have to have humility. Because these people want the results. It's like a lot of people want results in life, but they don't actually want the process as well. George Clinton talked about it talks about when you look at the advertising, when you look at what people are dreaming of is being on the winner's podium.
It's having the public, but it's having the acclaim. But they're not actually looking for the journey. And so it's it's having the humility to accept. To accept. I don't know what I don't know that it's a really good motto. What did you say his name was? George.
George Leonard Mastery. That's what I kind of took his ideas to develop the model. But he talked about that.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Because, you know, it's really that's really interesting. Thank you. Because I am definitely a dabbler.
I think I think we all have, because we've all been willing to get immediate results in whatever way. But is you can you can say, I think this is the big one in relationships because everyone thinks someone else and I think that's a lie, we've been told the lie we've been told is there's one out there and we've been told if it isn't working, it's because they're not the one. And so, so many people are searching for the one hand, but nothing is there for anyone.
But why do you think it is that people don't want to put the efforts in? Because it's like when I work with my patients, most of them have mental health issues, anxiety and depression and you're solutions without actually telling them what the solutions are, but keep them options. And 90 percent are looking for this magic little pill that that's going to make them better.
And I mean, I had a consultation with someone last week, and at the end they were like I was. Is that. And. And I said, well, what if what they mean is that anyone will tell you basically saying I'm on my own and I give them like all of the state loads and loads of different stuff.
And it was just really, really, really frustrating. And it's when you come across all the time, but all of the states them, you know, if you're overweight or you're skinny and you want to lose weight or gain muscle, you can't just go to the gym once, lift weights and then all of a sudden into Arnold Schwarzenegger. And it's the shame. And, you know, in relationships you've got it's all you've got away. And I can't understand how the ignorance of people where they just think it's taken me X amount of years to get to this negative place where where am I OK, might have had some traumatic events, whatever that might be, that's kicked it off.
But it's very, very rare where someone will go from one extreme to the next within an instance. I've seen it done, but it's very rare.
But why do you think that people don't want to put the efforts in and people want instant gratification? I don't think it's so much to do with society in another modern society is going that way. But I often find that more with the older generation, 50 plus between 50 and say seventy five and half the kind of power. And I just found it very crushing. I think and and it is you see that in over white people, you see, and that's why there's so many diets because I didn't start.
But I like that because it's hard work and I have to give up this food to try this diet and we try this diet. And that's why there's so many diets. The formula is quite simple. So I think it's fair. I think it's fear of failure. I think his fear of the price that they have to pay, I think it's pride. It's not wanting to like not having the ability to say, OK, and it just start flowing backwards and then start again.
I do think. The idea of the magic pill has been sold to us. I think the pharmaceutical industry, when you look at the last hundred years, is all the magic pills, the whole magic bullet from Coca-Cola was was originally a magic pill. So I think there's an expectation of it should be simple. There's an expectation that you as a therapist should be so good that. They're fixed by the time they go out, so I started with like a basis in therapy and.
People would come in and they'd go out, and the reason why I moved away from it was because people like this matter, because I just come back to you and you fix me like. The whole point is you have to take personal responsibility, like if you have a problem and you want to get to where you get to there, but then I thought people would want to grow from their. Do you think it's because people just don't want to be is it about vulnerability?
And which goes back to the whole parental school thing of being judged and intelligent enough. And so, yeah, I think there is all that all of those elements.
And I just I think personal responsibility is really key thing. But I think even though it's very basic and fundamental, because that's not what we're being taught in the schools and as a whole in society, people are thinking that it should be a magic pill and that people have been brainwashed by basically the Disney fantasy. So personal responsibility for most people, I think, is alien. And that's the problem. That's what people are willing to do, the work to put in to get them mastery.
They just want a quick shot.
Betty took the words out of my mouth. But in addition to that, we have been fed a diet from childhood. You know, the Cinderella stories, the night on a star, on a steed, whatever, blah, blah, blah, and all of that.
And also Mills and Boons have a lot to answer for the having gone to a girl's school and the moon has been passed around at age 13, 14. You think that there is only the one who is going to make your blood boil and you continue it. And then this day continues with these wonderful films and all the beautiful.
I'm talking the truth. I mean, you know, you get this idealized notion that you're going to defeat this man who is going to make your heart just burst with whatever and you'll be the one forever and ever. And then he turns out to have clay feet. What happens? So but the bottom line is that even though reality hits, we have had this diet for so long that we still yearn for it and think that it may just be about the truth.
So let's try and find it. And you see your friend who seems to have a perfect night, you know, who comes home and he does all the right things. And you why can't I have that, too? It must exist.
And so we know not just when you've just hit the nail on the head. Sandra, when you say that we prefer to face a psychological type of ideology and when you mention the fairy tales, even though they may seem trivial, but we've been so far or brainwashed that since we were children that most people grow up thinking that somebody is going to come and save them and that there will be a white knight who most people still don't realize. There is no white knight, nobody's coming to save them.
And it's a really key point. And it's why people don't take personal responsibility because they don't realize if they don't save themselves, that's good because nobody's coming through.
And if you if you've ever had time to go against all that was like the turning point. Yeah, he's very good. He's awesome.
There's just like nobody was coming to save me. He said that was the best moment when I realized. He's so hard, he's like, I literally love is a collection of his I watch his YouTube stories and he's just like this insane workout, he just delivers straight facts, does not mince words. However, I do feel, though, because I've been in a situation where I want the romantic fairy tale, blah, blah, blah, but I also feel like it's so easy for people to be like, oh, you know, we've been inside this diet, which I do agree with.
I think it's a copout because I think everybody deep down knows the truth. The truth is something that is hard to attain. I think that we all know that we have to work for what we want in life. It's just easier to believe that we don't have to. I think that people want to hand over their self autonomy to other people because they want somebody to take care of them. It's just easier for them to want to think that. And it's like that old adage where that dog is like lying on the patio and he's like moaning.
And someone's like, what's wrong with them? They're like, oh, he's laying on the nail. And he's like, why doesn't he just move? And it's because it doesn't hurt enough for him to move. Like people need to feel the pain to want to move forward. But it's just easier not to do that. Well, you know, it's good enough. Isn't that so?
Yes, I think there is a subtext to all of politics. Like politics is basically no one will get elected if they put the taxes up. We won't pay debts or have all the things that we want. And people want the NHS. They want health care. They want all of these things funded. But at the same time, they want less taxes. And it's not magical, is it?
Stand up ignorance from people where they just think, I want this and I want that. And they got no idea about what I think.
I, I think people right now and I think you look at politics like education is you would need to study that full time. You need to be in a health care. You need to be a man all the time. So but I do think, like she said, we want to believe it and the politicians give us the story. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll take care of this. You elect me like every election is like look at Trump's make America great.
What was Obama's. Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Anyone remember Bush's? But basically all of them amount to one line, you know, like the Brexit lie of this. Three hundred and fifty million we're paying into Europe every month. That's going to go into the NHS. So. I think if people critically thought about it, but one they don't want to, and too, it's easy to believe and so we give our authority for someone else to make it, because fundamentally, life is hard and life is scary to achieve whatever we want.
And so what that means is like we have to do that whole hero's journey thing. And that's scary. It's much easier. We all want to call power and people get into relationships because they're scared of that journey on their own. And they're like, if I'm with someone else, they'll support me and they'll balance me out. And I won't have to do these things that I don't want to do and all these reasons. And when someone comes along and says, you know, I will be fine, just fine for me and I'll change it.
So I think it's I think probably on some level we do if we really thought about it, but one, we're busy, we don't think about it. And two, is it is nice to believe it's nice to believe that someone else, something else will do it.
So while human beings fundamentally lazy, then instead of making the effort to go on the hero's journey, we do have to let somebody else make choices for us.
Yeah, it's not true. But if someone if someone said, I'll give you this result when you don't have to challenge yourself or go through this fear or that ever if there was a magic pill, why would you take that? I mean, ultimately, I'd like deep down, I know now that that journey is the experience of life and it's not about the thing that is about the journey of gaymer, but there's lots of times I would've taken it.
Would you? But that's what leads to family, it should teach us our parents, but what we what our parents did it quite often they just make decisions and we just live with that. And we just don't want to take sometimes the responsibility. We want somebody to lead us to tell us what to do. And that's our generation fault a little bit, because our parents didn't never really discipline us or teach us how to take responsibility. They just did it instead of us.
And they just, OK, do it or don't even do it. Do, yeah, and then people so we're we're all aware of this to different degrees and we're accepting different degrees and and it is luck of the draw. What we get. You know, some of us were lucky. Some of us might have had parents that told us that. But most of the time. And so we just said, yeah, we have to find our way from wherever we are.
And sometimes that's from a negative place. You know, like I know I'm kind of going off the subject a little bit. What is the meaning behind the covid regulations? And we're being told what we should and we shouldn't do. Vast, vast majority of people looking into the whys and wherefores. I work in the NHS and, you know, I get these stories about certain things being busy in. The reality being politicians I'm sitting in a car with now, there's nothing wrong, they just got to self isolate and in fact, about the best sleep in three years I've ever had them.
What do you think that. Being told what to do, it kind of links into visual, and that's that's why people want to be rescued, so to speak. If you think we are really influenced, each and every one of us is really influenced by someone in authority saying this is what this is what you should do, and we just basically blindly go ahead and do. Mostly when you listen to people who live side by side. Does not mean it means they who are they like that people like you and me who maybe studied a bit and you got into a certain role, but I don't think.
We should. So for most things, we will look for the things that are most important to us. We have to challenge that because we can't see everything from scratch. So. So when you when you look at it, I think if it's genuinely for health reasons. Then there's a basis. Like a justification. The problem I think a lot of people have is when they make a rule and they don't stick to it when there's contradictory facts and figures and.
We don't know, like the information we get. Doesn't isn't necessarily with. You know, what's out with other data is out there, like, I think the government's. Facts and figures and things have been way off. So. But yeah, I think it comes from. Control. And control comes from people who are below the line. So, like, if if I if if there was a form of government where they said, like, OK, these are the facts.
For the sake of everyone, we need you to wear masks, so prudishness. Then everyone above the line, I think, would. I would agree with it. And I asked you a question of I got off on another time, you know, I think I think you are what I mean, and the reason why I'm mentioning it is not a coincidence, but. Well, you know, I'm looking into the relationships where. A lot of people don't make efforts in relationships.
For one reason or another, and I'm just wondering, is it because they're looking for someone to tell them what to do, but then. You know, you often get an imbalance in relationships. Well, you know, my wife's nagging me or the father won't let me go out or whatever it might be. So there's this imbalance going on, but then it relates back. I mean, I was about two, three weeks ago, I had this patient who was suffering from domestic violence, and it was really, really bad, you know, and one of those certifications I've ever come across, the words out of your mouth was a.
And I said, what is it about sisterly love, because to me, it sounds like an absolute nightmare. And and she said, every time I see him, it's it's really exciting because I don't know what's going to happen. So it's like our first date every so. And I mean, I can understand that, you know, I know a lot about how people work, but at the same time, it's shit, isn't it? You know, how people can be truly manipulated, limitation on emotion so much that it could ultimately cost someone their lives.
And that's where they come from with the Kobe thing. OK, it's basically gasoline. Yes.
So basically, if you're a dabbler obsessive or hacker. You're running on excitement. Whereas when George Leonard talks about MAFF, which he says is boring to boring path, and it's the willingness to be bold. Whereas which is why I brought in about social media, that is like the buzz, the excitement. And a lot of people in relationships are wondering the excitement. And so where do you get the excitement in a relationship from someone else? You get it from that kind of drama situation.
And it comes from a basis of not having like a deep purpose. Passion, meaning in your life revolves a bit worried.
Want to go ahead. You know, it says on the free thinking and rebellion this fall, you want a big army color, military, things like what's going on?
I'm recruiting now, Sasha, I'm going to sign up a while to realize it was it was like, oh, my gosh, what's up today?
We're going to march on Downing Street and the freaking party.
We have a story. Go ahead, sorry. Oh, sorry. The thing is with the Cofidis, I mean, I'm all actually being at home, to be honest with you. I think I needed some time out of work in the city. It's just, you know, it was always go, go, go. So I'm actually quite happy having a year off, but it's the way that they've gone about it. My main worry is when I go out into the street and it's the way people behave and maybe maybe there's some insecurities in me, but, you know, someone just crossing over the roadblock, they're running away from me or, you know, and people are being very aggressive towards each other.
I find the whole way everyone's responded to this really quite frightening, to be honest. I think that's what happens when you when you have fear and control, because the way that you control is through said. And so when you say people who are below the line, when people are afraid, they don't have the resources to be kind, to be generous, it's about survival and savagery. So I think the idea is that people I mean, the basis for the control is that people otherwise people want their wallets out.
And so we need to enforce it. We need to control that when we control it. We have to use fear. We have to impose on other people. So, yeah, and that's why when you look at in terms of a relationship, if you need someone to be a certain way. If you are going to punish, control, manipulate any of those things. Then it automatically creates a bad relationship. But if that is that's people that you have learned.
Throughout your life, it was some people, they don't even know that that's what they are doing. That's what they are because that's them, that's their being OK, and you're requiring them to unlearn this behavior. That is an intrinsic part of them. As far as they are concerned, it's a part of them because they don't know that they're doing this thing. I mean, they have this is learned behavior yet.
So it's the conditioning. That's where I was talking about the conditioning. Is you of. But how do you as a partner then, because you are in a relationship and this person has has this form of behavior to try to resolve and to get to a place where in that behavior becomes less of a threat to the relationship and to you, the other individual.
So ultimately. Ultimately, if they don't make a full TMAP, so they're, of course. And. If they don't have the respect in terms of being able to communicate openly and honestly, then you can't. So that's why the three critical components for a relationship that's going to work is going to be integrity, respect and kindness, because if you don't have them, someone's got a false map and are insisting that it's reality when it isn't. Can I ask a question?
Yes. Can I just answer? Yeah, just in practical terms. So you communicate and you talk about it, but if you if you can't have that basis, then they're willing to talk about it openly. And you can you can get to the truth. So the basis of the communication is so that you can tell what caused that, what triggered that together over someone else. And then you can connect. But if you can't if they're not willing to discuss, they're not willing to look at that.
There's nothing you can do.
So that's one of the cool things, which means, therefore, that that becomes a deciding point for you. Yeah, this too toxic for me. And this is this is going to be the permanent situation. Am I willing to live with that? Can I. Does that detract from my being, me, etc.? Those questions and on that basis, you decide to walk or stay. Yes.
Because otherwise as well. I'm sorry, Nicole.
I just have a question. I think because of social media and the way life is at the moment, do you believe there's like an epidemic of narcissism? I think and I think that there is social media. Narcissism is someone really talking about narcissistic personality that's very specific, but narcissism as I try, is there's a spectrum and we all we all want we all have that. We all share that same thing of analysis that we all we all got a little bit.
Yeah. We all want to be wonderful like social media is, Bill. Like, the only reason social media is dominating society is because the document it gives you when you get a like the the the bias of feeling popular, of feeling like they're feeling validated, that's an inherent part we all need. To fill in, we'll need to fill. Worthy. But what it does that gives you a short term here. As opposed to Mostri, gives you the real thing of you have it internally knowing and you don't need it from other people.
I hear a lot of that and a lot of the relationships that I hear around me, marriages and stuff. It seems that there's a lot of like this, I don't know, grandiosity and sort of, you know what I mean, with one partner. And then that's where the struggle is, if you see what I mean.
Yeah, it's a bit like drugs. So if you look at cocaine or heroin or any drugs, they give you something that you would have like if you meditated for 20 years and you were enlightened and you would have many of the same effects. But they'll give it to you in one injection. And it's the same thing, like the dabbler, the obsessive, the hacker is just going to go for the shock. As opposed to long term thing, and then that becomes addictive and again, you have to do more and more outrageous, like if you got 70 likes on this post and the next one only gets 30.
Nobody likes me anymore. What can I do? And so, like, when you look at young girls on their social media, apparently what they do is like they'll take a selfie, put it up. If it hasn't got enough likes in the first few minutes, they take it down, retake it, retake it. And so there's no realism, but it's just chasing chasing the dragon. Does not relate back to desire and in terms of once you get what you want, you don't want it anymore.
And part of part of the process, part of the actual also it's really crazy. It's it's the actual you know, let's let's relate back to, once again, lose weight. It's it's not just the case of you've lost 10 stolen, could you taken this magical pill and you feel great, it's the faith that's involved. It's knowing that you've had that commitment towards it. You've committed to in the right foods. You've committed to getting up early and doing doing exercise, and you've committed to saying no when when you really want to say yes, I know that bring bills of strength that you you might not have had before.
So on the face of it, it is just the outcome is just losing weight. But there's loads of all the different things along the line which is also building up your character. And it's the same with you, with drugs or alcohol. You reflected a moment ago on taking an injection and it could bring you to this place of euphoria, but that patient who has to to go down that path without an opportunity now, no idea on how to obtain those emotions other than being falsely induced.
Or if you've got someone who has trained, you know, a mindfulness and practice there on a regular basis, then they'll be able to self induced those particular feelings. And to me, that's that's where everything kind of comes back to of. Yes, every one of us would be in that perfect relationship with that and with that other person where you see a lot of you feel respected, you feel cherished, you feel excited and you feel confident.
But I think it ultimately comes to being the come to realization where despite not having that other person is able to fulfill those particular needs and actually get comfortable within yourself. So then whenever this person, if they do happen to come along, there's no guarantee. But I think if you do, you're in a comfortable position where you can go, you know what, I'm actually happy enough within myself. And if this goes wrong, then it's actually OK because I'm still left with myself.
And what I had before wasn't someone who was in dire straits, wasn't someone who was in desperation wanting someone who was completely, utterly needy or of coming from a position of strength. And that's the journey. That's only the journey that's going to that's going to get is that point. You're not going to take a pill. And all of a sudden have I have all of this confidence and I have all this knowledge and I know what to do in certain situations and no one to show emotion in all the times.
You would have opened another segment with somebody that's that's the journey of people to want to do the journey, don't want to make the effort. And that's where I think society's failing. And not just in not just the relationships, but on on many levels like this, which is freethinking. Yeah, I think the desire is the same thing, but it's the short term desire, it goes back to the Greek idea of hedonic happiness, which is pleasure and you demonic, which is earned over time.
And it is do we want the short term gratification which we can't sustain and we can't supply or do we want the long term gratification, which is where we we we supply it so it becomes sustainable. And I think the key point from what you from what you said, Alan, is aside from that is. That ultimately, like my biggest message in terms of relationships is it's not about the relationship. So everyone wants to talk about relationship skills and relationship.
But when you talk about so when you look at relationship skills, at best is soulless and at worst it's manipulation. Because. That if you if you take relationship. Relationship techniques, tricks, advice, hacks. Without involving changing you. Then it is essentially this evil, soulless or manipulative and really relationships are a part of life and it's how you navigate life. And so, really, the whole idea of the thing for rebellion is that it's about your life, you navigate your life and you navigate your life in relationship.
Depending on whatever the context or whatever anyone else does, and it's about having the skills that you can navigate so that you always stay above the line. Because really, relationships are about self mastery. And if you if you choose the right person, then, yes, then, you know, the relationship will be great. But there's choosing the person, like choosing the person. Accurately, again, in terms of we can go for the short term gratification, because this person is really hot and they seem like they take all the boxes or we can go.
This person has the qualities that we can sustain a relationship for 10, 20 years. And of course, people will change. But it's about you managing yourself. So that. Whatever happens, you're OK because like every relationship is going to end, it's going to end and death will break up. And, you know, if your partner, God forbid, in five years drops down, then. If only all that you've done is built this relationship, but in a way that you can never rebuild it with anyone else.
Then you're going to be devastated. And so, like the pain of a breakup is about is correlated with your confidence of your ability to to make a better future. I think you can I think sometimes you got to identify your patterns as well. Sometimes you've got to stop and say, hang on, this is always the same result when I do this. So I need to change that. So I think a lot of self reflection needs to take place.
The thing is, when you recognize that, you start doing a lot of work on yourself. So it's really important to work on yourself. There's got to be work done. But sometimes I think that can be a detriment because you've also got to remember that you're not trying to be a perfect person. So when you meet somebody, they've still got to be able to accept that this is who you are and, you know, you've got your flaws and whatever, and you have to also embrace your own flaws and stuff.
But I think sometimes when we're trying to do a lot of work on ourselves, we start to want to become a perfect person. And that's just not that's just not how how it works. Yes, we have to be careful to not to be too prescriptive about what we are, what, what, what we want to be, because that engenders inflexibility.
And when you become inflexible, then that starts to lead to your inability to adjust. Or your partner, whatever it is, the relationship, you can't just adequately in the end or at the right time in the relationship because of your inflexible.
Points the things that you will not give up on, the things that you have carved out for yourself and I will accept no less, I will. I want it this way, et cetera, et cetera.
I actually leaves your partner in the role of being a reactive person to you. Because they always have to be contained to conform to your your prescriptions, and that to me is not a relationship that's not built on respect, it's not built on equality. It's not built on give and take. It's not it's just not a relationship. It's I don't know what you'd call that.
It becomes subject to dogma. Dogma. Yeah. And it's just choosing a different government, since it's being able to be constantly flexible, not it's because otherwise what happens is you're attaching to an idea or a value. And everything is always changing, so we have to be able to let go of things that as soon as they don't want. That as soon as I got to. But also being flexible gives you the capability of allowing your relationship to evolve, so that element of boredom, which we assume is inevitable, is is not inevitable if you are willing to allow.
In the individuals to explore and be themselves and to grow, but also to for the relationship to also evolve.
Because I think I've heard people say in long term relationships, oh, I didn't know that you liked that or I didn't know you could do that, or you always surprise me. There always something new that you you know, there's something new that you always show me at some point rather than, you know, OK, fine.
Yeah, I'm going to he's going to retreat to the to the chair with the slippers and the pipe and the newspaper.
And I'm going over here to admit what you're missing at the moment, Sandra.
Oh, I'm doing my embroidery, I must tell you. There you go.
Yeah, I think I think there is an element of boredom, but I want to so if you meet someone new and it like is up here, it's exciting and then it drops down and so. Like when George Lennon was George Lennon was talking about mastery, he says is boring, and what that means is that you don't get highs. And lows of the drama. So, like Adam is talking about that person and that relationship is up here because you never know was that.
And then it's down there. It's up there. Up there. And so over long term. The highs and lows become much, much less. But also when Adam was talking, he was talking about. You get the shot, there's habituation like whatever happens, you habituate to it, and so you need more and more and more and more, and that's never sustainable in a relationship. You're never going to get more and more and more. But if you going have that addictive nature, then the boring things like the small ups and downs.
Can become exciting. I'd like to call rather than boring, sorry, when you say addictive nature.
Do you think, though, that it's just normal for human beings to get a thrill out something where it's sugar or tobacco or drinking or whatever, and then just keep chasing it because of whatever chemicals? Do you think there are specific people that have a special addictive nature or it's just normal is one thing? I think I think it's natural.
I think what the food industry is quite of the drug and, you know, like recreational drugs as played off. It's just yeah, it's how we wired, I think with when we like finding sugar of men, it was a it was rewarding. And so we get easy, quick food.
You're right. The food industry does when they design the food. So you get the point, the fans sugars, you get the high. Yeah.
Coca, Coca Cola, etc..
But I would think that instead of calling it boredom, because to me, boredom has a negative connotation.
It's like, you know, you're part of the wallpaper. It's more to me contentment.
You have got a point of contentment where you accept each other and you you go along and as you say, there are little blips of excitement. But what would be nice is to have that level of contentment with some lovely peaks of excitement every now and again that would keep me going. I don't know about anybody else.
Are you saying that if we don't go for the thrills, the highs, the we could be bored then you're saying, Sandra, that instead of being. Looking at as bottom, we could look for contentment, but then where do we get the frills we feel when we're contented with the different personalities?
Yeah, you can work at it, but you can surprise your partner. You can do something different. They can do something different.
I mean, to me, what when when you talk of boredom, I think of a set routine that becomes almost an automated way of living and nothing really causes any deviation from that for good or bad or very, very rarely. So days will go by where you have created no memories.
Because you have just gone through them like on autopilot, whereas to me, if I'm truly content.
I think I can make memories and good have good, good feelings, but they just don't speak to the to the levels where the adrenaline rush and all the rest of it may not be there, but it's a different kind of of enjoyment.
I really like that description, you've the Sondra's same, creating good memories. Yeah, I suppose good memories come because you have a good feeling at that moment. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. And it's created by that togetherness with you and that person and the recognition that. Yes. We may not have all the very high highs very often, but as they would say, I remember my parents would joke with their friends, OK, these things don't happen very often, but when they happen, they are very memorable.
I won't go into, you know, what I'm talking about.
OK, so it's that kind of thing. Where in. Yeah. You are on an even keel. You understand the person, the person understands you and you do have things that come into the relationship, me, children, grandchildren, things that you both enjoy as hobbies which you enjoy.
And it's a pretty even keel and you like it, it works for you. The one that I'm scared of is where you are in a relationship. And it is so boring because you are two you're not one or two people bound together, but you are essentially two islands.
You're not you're not a couple.
You're not a real couple in that sense. You you kind of just move along together in the same space. So you're not creating any memories collectively as a as a couple.
That to me, friends, yeah, I think contentment is that is a much better word I, I use boring in the context of people who say it is boring.
But I look around, I say I look, I look.
It has been like an onion and you peel it and you pay and you pay. And so the biggest bit that you're going to learn is on the outside, but there's always more and more layers. And so when you look at it in terms of Helen Fisher, she talks about the fragile lives of the sex drive, the romantic drive and the date companionship. And so what happens is, is like the sex drive or the thrill from the sex is going to be less the romantic drive is going to become more, more and more the same.
But what's really going to grow is the companion. And it's to do with and it's to do with like the respect of like Sandra saying it's not. There's a quote that came to mind when when Sandra was talking as. George Bernard Shaw, and he says the only wise man is my tailor because he's the only one who takes my measurement now, because everyone else sees me as as as I was. And so it's about OK, instead of looking at this person like I've always known.
I know what they are. I know what I like. I know that. But look at them with different eyes in terms of like, yeah, we have this base of knowledge, but I'm still interested in you because I think that's the thing that kills relationship when we lose interest. That's what I'm saying, and you need to you need to be able to look at the person, see how and I didn't know that about you do you were different.
You're doing something different so I can actually see you and focus on you, the person, because you're doing something that I'm interested in or I find interesting about you rather than. Oh, same old, same old.
Does that mean you shouldn't if you shouldn't give away too much from the beginning. At the beginning, does that mean you have to hold back.
And I don't know, you evolved to me, you evolved. So you're you're adding on layers. As Rob says to you, this thing about the onion, I think it's the layers are growing. There is more that with experience that you add yourself. So you become more complex. There are more subtleties attached to your overall persona.
I think it's to do with the. Integrity, respect and. It's remembering it's constantly looking with fresh eyes, constantly, not assuming that you know them, because part of the respect is not assuming they're different, like, OK, we've been together for 20 years. You don't know that person. We don't know each other. And we've all been asking more than 20 years, I think everyone is and we're still finding things out about. But the nature of people and this comes from the idea of controlling people is the idea of people are fixed, is that there's this person, they have this, try this, try this, try.
I know then right next year, really, that that is just the outside. On the surface, and there's so much more, and so it's more to do with the attitude, so the attitude of mastery is I want to explore, understand now who you are. Whereas the other one is like, I fit the bill. That's right. What balance do I need to do here? I keep checking on sorry, sorry, go ahead. No, I was going to give you a trivial example.
My husband, when he met me, my hair was somewhere I had hair and yes, he likes hair, so. And then after a while he realized that, OK, fine, this woman, she will go to a hairdresser. I don't know what she's going to come back with. You know, I come back Saturday morning to see me go out with one look at it and come back. And he's like, Who are you? You know, I have one inch of hair because I've just got so fed up and I've cut it off.
I've given no notice. But that's that element of surprise. I mean, it's trite, it's superficial. But nonetheless, I'm known to do stuff like that. And I think.
As we grow older, it's probably something that we shouldn't lose that element of just just being yourself and doing something and people will say, really, I didn't know you like that are well defined. Just something.
I was just going to say, like, I don't know what anyone else feels, but I feel like it also helps for me like to talk about my and how it's talking about being content or boring. It's like when you're on the way to my street, I can only liken it to a business perspective, but like it could be related to following your own purpose in this life as well. Like if you feel like you have a calling on what you need to do, for example, the steps you're going to do to realize that goal or, you know, actualized or progress or developments, the person that you feel you can become through that process will be made up of mundane, laborious tasks that will add compound together to make a bigger picture.
And I feel like maybe like for the purpose of your purpose, that person that allows you to understand that people can evolve and change and grow as they go, go on. So if somebody else are you with this also purpose? Because I believe that I would have to be with a purpose person because you just have a different mindset in regards to being growth orientated and understanding that nothing actually does stay the same. But I think it also allows you to be fulfilled in yourself while doing the mundane, laborious, everyday tasks that you do in it for the greater good of your life and hopefully others as well.
Yeah, um. I think it is it's it's recognising it's the journey. It's the journey and not the result. But also, there's the other side of the coin where in one partner might not want the other one to change from what they were when they met them. I mean, this is who you are. This is what I know. And this is what this is why I fell in love with. And therefore, you are static, you need to be the image that I fell in love with, you do not change it, but that's what it's coming to, unconditional love.
If you think about that, so you accept it. The person how it's evolved us, he's accepting as well. You it's a kind of really unconditional love what so many of us didn't learn how to do. I feel like people who do say, oh, you're not the person I fell in love with, but I just feel that that is just a fantasy that you want to create in your head anyway, because nothing does stay the same, like the nature of life that nothing ever will stay the same.
And if you're following what you think is right for yourself or I don't mean in a selfish way, because I do believe that we're all here to serve other people. Like if you acknowledge that within yourself, then you'll also understand why somebody else changes as well. And I think it's going to set about unconditional love. I believe that unconditional you can feel unconditional love, but I think that's found in accepting that everyone is going to make mistakes. And it's not for you to judge the other person what you think is right or wrong.
Both times when you were talking, I had I had something to say and then. The point I wanted to branch off on, something you said is related to connected to what Allnut said. In terms of unconditional love, the rock, because I know it's something that you know quite sure about, I think is it's about love and unconditional love. And I know the studies that have proved whether people can afford that will be possible, just not found the right group of people to study.
But I think with unconditional love is still it still has consequences with boundaries. It just means that. You know, if someone is abusive, for example, a consequence of that would be to leave the relationship in terms of unconditional love is like. Yeah, it's not boundaryless, it's not it's not without consequences points that it doesn't matter what that person does, you still want what's best for them. Yeah, so and then grow and develop, so patient with them through the difficult difficulties, that would be my definition of unconditional love, but it's also about wanting what's best for them without it being so close.
And it would not be genuine, like sincere. So if.
I don't mean in a in a sort of a selfish way, wanting what's best for them, like a wants what's best for a child, for example.
Yeah, so in that context. Unconditional love makes more sense. So my my problem with unconditional love, I get so yes, when I researched it, I couldn't find people. It's not that it never exists. Is that when you look at the David Hawkins things, you would have to have people like, I don't know, the level of about four hundred or something before they would display it. And so there's just so few people who function at that level that most people aren't capable of it.
It's not to say that we're not capable of that. If you were. If you were. If you. Took the story and you focused on that, then you could. Have unconditional love. And so in the context of. Constantly growing, constantly looking at each other, constantly focused on accepting the person, you can have that unconditional love, unconditional love. I have a problem with is where people say, oh, we love each other, which relates to really like animals talking about the abusive.
Someone to been in an abusive relationship, but we love each other and I love them whatever they do. That is that is an understatement. There is the understanding of unconditional love where ignorance is the problem. So, yes, I think if you have an attitude of you love them. Whoever they are, whatever they do. But you navigate whether you're in the relationship with them or not, based on what they do. Based on how impacts, because the same love and compassion that you have for them, you have to have yourself.
Because both of you are in the relationship, so you both have to you have to be looking out for yourself and for them. So it's not self-interest in the interest of the relationship, because there's self-interest is solely about you. And the next level of identity is, is you in a relationship, so the you becomes both of you. So there's still the independent view, but then there's the you. That's part of the relationship. And in that relationship, what impact your partner impacts you.
And so your concern is for both of you. Could another word for unconditional love be compassion, because I don't believe in unconditional love, like what? You would just describe an event where people are deluded and they say, I love you more. So I think that if it goes back again to that sort of regard for the humanity and having compassion, then you could say, even though I'm not in love with this person or I don't like them or respect them, I can have compassion for the humanity.
That could be a way of describing it as unconditional love. Feel unconditional love for me is more forgiveness, because a lot of people and I've been to this a lot myself, find it very hard to forgive, because when someone does something you don't like, you think that they've done it to you, but in reality, they wouldn't tell it to themselves. So it's just your perception of their actions towards you. And I feel like forgiveness. You forgive someone else, but you also forgive yourself.
And that's regardless of how evil you may think they were, what how much you disagree with them? I think forgiveness is unconditional love.
How do you differentiate compassion from forgiveness? Well, I think that I think you can have compassion for somebody's situation, but you can still not really like what they do, but I think that when you forgive, you just let go of any negative emotion you may feel and see them as yourself as well. Because I think that I think that people are mirrors. So what somebody what you don't like who somebody else reflects back potentially what you don't like in yourself as well.
So I think that when you forgive, you forgive them and forgive you. OK, so just to just to give a different answer. Is. In terms of. Look, I think compassion is definitely. Part of that relationship, but in terms of unconditional love. I think you can be focused, you can be forgiving, you can be compassionate, you can be all of those things, but whether you feel love. Doesn't that depend on whether you're above or below the line?
Because if you don't feel good. Can you love. Like even yourself, if you don't feel good about yourself, do you love yourself? I think this is loaf's like it's on a big spectrum and it's in some some countries and cultures. And always there's like 13 different levels of love from each one's broken down and explained. And I think even in the heat of something going wrong where you sort of heart sort of becomes tense maybe. And because of conflicts or something that's happening, I don't think there's an absence of the law review, so one good outcome.
OK, let me play devil's advocate. If you're arguing right and you're really angry. In that moment, right, just that moment, not talking about see, I think the issue I have with love is just like I love this person and I always love them. But the reality is, I think we love, we we love, we hate and not saying that we hate them, but I'm saying in that moment like that second, you isolate that second.
What I've done something you're tired, you're really angry, I really hurt you, my hate the action. And I think some people it depends on the person. I think you can get to that line of knowing that you could be crossing over into hate and control yourself. OK?
OK, so what my question really is. Is love. What you feel. Or what you do. What you do? Well, I think I think it's both. That's what I'm saying. I think love isn't just this concept of this mushy feeling that we have. I think lovingness comes in its full definition is a lot of different things that we don't quite grasp the conversation about this before.
And what I said, just to kind of piece about what I said last night, is that love is the basis, of course, but it means quote. So it's very, very basic level, it's about goodness, so you truly, truly love something or someone more and more specifically someone, then you want the very best for them and but the very best that would not come at the detriment of of getting the best for them by.
Ruining someone else's life or taking something away from somebody else, because that court has to extend beyond the day and beyond that person is supposed to be like justice within the fairness of good qualities, within one in the past without the person acceptable behavior towards them and all the rest of it.
Yeah. So in relation to going back to the person you mentioned earlier in that domestic violence situation, without a doubt, she looks in her own words, she lost her partner.
Well, that's more of an exciting type of living and maybe even almost a delusional type of love.
What I was going to go on to say is just in my opinion, what she's asking, because I've never met anyone who's in domestic violence or domestically abusive relationship, male or female, that doesn't have low levels of self-esteem, low level of confidence, doesn't particularly like themselves and certainly doesn't involve themselves. So my opinion is that they're seeking that. They believe in their head. They believe that they love the person, what they're actually seeking their own love for themselves because of this lack of self-esteem and self esteem, et cetera, within that person.
So they are, in effect, looking for their own self, look within somebody else. And that's why I think it's important for us all to ultimately love yourself or respect yourself. And then and only at that point then can you go into a relationship with someone else, because otherwise you're a huge risk of giving your power away. Not. I was going to ask a question earlier on about why do you think that this is and isn't taught in schools?
Because what we're covering this evening and what we call them previous sessions, it's crucial. It's fundamental for successful relationships and successful relationships are fundamental for and for getting on in life in general, whether it's in work or pleasure. And I think that. Knowledge is power on this evening or the evenings were being empowered by the information that we receive and that we shared in amongst one another, and by being empowered, we are free thinking. We're able to think for ourselves with less reliance on somebody else.
And I think that's why it's not so essential schools, because the established establishment doesn't want the masses to be powerful. They want to do want to control us in one way or another, because in order for one person to have power, that means it has to be taken away from somebody else.
And I would definitely agree with that 100 percent. I do think that some of the and it is about being a free thinker, and that is what we're not taught in school and work and things like that, because it is as I just said, it is taking away the power from the money to give to The View, which I believe in influence and leadership. I don't necessarily believe in power and control. However, in regards to what people are saying as well, I believe I believe this is not my belief.
I believe that you get love from God. I don't I believe that that is the truest form of love. And I don't believe that romantic love. I don't believe that all the other cliche forms of love is actually love. I think it is ultimately self seeking. And I think that one, from my experience and I acknowledge myself as a child of God, divine being, that is when I actually felt true love because I saw in other people as well.
But I don't believe that humans got love inherently from within them. I think it's from a divine source. I know the people don't agree with that.
So then if some like for example, I'm not religious and I don't believe in God, so I would phrase it as I. See the source from coming in, which I think would be self-love, I think for me. I think it's about your connection. The first level of connection is to the big picture. And whichever way you see that, and so you can see as God supplying it or you can see it is coming from yourself. But I yeah, I think I just need a story, a story that you believe in that makes sense, that enables you to have that connection that then you can develop.
There's one one other thing I just want to pick up on in terms of the unconditional love. So. When I was saying, is it something that you do or is it something that you feel. What I wanted to get to is. I think it is something that you do. But I think you can only feel it when you you can only do it when you feel it. Because. You can be. In order to love, you have to be above the line.
And there's very few of us that never dipped below the line. So. Well, isn't it that unconditional love, the pulls the relationship back up off the line, because if you didn't have that, you could just go to ruin? No, that would be my yes.
So what I'm saying is in terms of unconditional love. You have to have that love. Not this from the other person, because she said it like I think the key is that you have you have that big perspective that you have an understanding of an idea of where you where your power is sourced. And then you have what your life's about, that sense of identity, so so that your your passions like I don't just mean like someone you've met and you've got a passion for I mean, you like deep passion in life is what's going to sustain you.
And so in all that, the reason why unconditional love, people weren't able to to do it. Was because they weren't above the line long enough, so I think you can do it. When you're above the line, it's just. Difficult, and I think we're all making it like finding our way as we go, it's part of that motivation.
You have to be motivated to want to do it, to do so in a time when you're really motivated and you do it at a time when your. Not motivated. What's the difference? And basically, the feeling, the feeling is that, yeah, yeah, so that's above the line. So one duty, though, one is a sense of duty. If you're not if you're doing it and you're not motivated to do it, that's probably through a sense of duty.
Yeah, so so. People can be motivated from fear, like slaves have been motivated, free, fearful for our time. Sorry, sorry, you said something as well. Yeah, basically in my perspective, the unconditional love, it's you still express if you don't like that behavior, what the person does, you express it. That's not the right way in my perspective. What does, however, as the person you still respect? It's basically more than just respect, you actually still give that love, but it's not the love, love that you see in the stories.
It's a kind of gratefulness. Thank you to be with me. Thank you. You are here. However, I do not accept that behavior. Is that. So that's that's really how I would call appreciation and respect. Because what the difference on Dana is that in order to love, you've got to have love, you've got to feel love, so you've got to be full of love in order to give love. So that's your only giving a small amount of people this this it's built up over the time, which take a very long time to build up.
I don't know if I believe it takes a long time, because I think that love is our natural state. I think that we're born. I perceive that we're born in love, like you've seen a baby, never seen a baby. I mean, I like when it's fresh out of the womb. And I think that through conditioning we have that. We have the misconception that we we are something else other than love. And I also agree with Rob.
I think that you have to have love while you already have love. You have to know that you have love in order to give love because you can't get what you haven't got. But I personally that once you realize that I believe that love is infinite, I can give my love to so many people and never feel a lack of it myself because it's free to give and it doesn't right now.
I think I think you know why people like when people meditate and it really works for them making quiet the mind, everyone feels better. And I think it's really fair. Fear that stops love, fear is what stops us from having that love.
So, you know, you see that you have to be above the line. Does that mean then that you have to be in the U.S., you have to be in a positive state yourself, and then because you are happy, then you can give love to someone else. But the but you've been saying, yeah, but you know, when we are in love, in action or feeling you saying that you yourself have to feel good in order to love someone, you need to take action soon afterwards.
You start with a feeling within you, then you act.
And that love, that act generates love between you and the love that you like. The love in terms of the doing is powered by the love that you have. So if you don't have the feel like you have your own internal love. And you don't restrict that from the fear, then you can be loving. Yeah, so it all starts with self-love yourself. Yeah, well, if you can just stop and this is why a lot of the time, you know, talked about.
The nature of institutions, the nature of other organizations is that they want to control in some way. Because otherwise, all that there is, the basic building block is societies, people. And yet we are all bowing down to government, we're all bearing down to this big corporation that we feel, but they don't have an idea that we agree on. And so if we but what happens is the organizations and structures that we've built in order to support us.
We've grown up believing that they control us. And so it's recognizing that, you know, that the tail where the dog. I think you've got it in one area, definitely. Budget, the education system, those we are all human beings. Our primary function. Is emotion, every single thing that we do, whether it's Etan Patz in the beans, I like someone else. Is it the killer? Is that the shape? It is the texture.
Well, it's the emotional release that you receive when you ask that in a binge or whatever it might be that you do and that that will indicate whether the election or whatever. And there's so many different emotions that's available, millions and millions of emotions that are impossible to describe. And I think that's why we're struggling overlook because how the emotional response I would get when I'm in love with somebody is different. I assume because it's impossible to measure then what somebody else would feel.
What we don't get talked about it in scale. We don't get talked about in making a decision based upon an emotion. Go into a shop and we will see something and we'll go buy it on impulse. That's it. That's an emotion we'll do. That is something that we shouldn't do because of an emotion on it. But it's not it's not taught because understanding emotions is so important. Various and. I don't think it's ever going to change because it will give power to the masses.
What are you saying about the tail wagging the dog and also loving spray? But yes, so he's going to propagate. It's not in anyone's interest. So something that we have, that's what the idea of the rebellion is, because you have to claim it yourself. It's like now, you know, we can't call the shots, we can't go to the pope. So what do you spend your money on? You spent people, people looking in ways because I, myself included, the only emotion, the only emotion that we can gain is through reason we cannot gain through anything else and hope that that goes to show how shallow this society is if we're looking to get emotional gratitude and that kind of way through and consumerism.
Because the food is basically causing that feeling for you, but you can actually Sounness, when once you had that feelings, you can reproduce with your brain once you experience it and you do do it, did this cautionary you can reproduce, you can't remember for it if you do with the feelings. Get your five cents, you know. So, no, you go no, go ahead. I, I do find it a struggle to base anything on just emotions.
I feel emotions are very fickle. So I would never want to get into an issue with somebody just based in the way that I felt, because how I feel changes like the wind and my temperament is very emotionally that I have to work quite hard to level out. Naturally, I'm very up and down. So I would not want to go into any sort of relationship with just based on emotion because it just does not last that long. And I don't know about Alan and Janice, but I don't I often don't know what my motion is.
So I think that nobody knows that I think it's more a gender thing that I think a lot of men we just. Nordström, your emotions. Yeah, yeah. Mel, emotions, I actually don't want to sell you guys I making no, I'm not the men and women are so different. I love that. But if I have to describe the emotion, it's basically the what it's connecting to your muscles and that's why it tore your brain and sending the information.
And that's how you can experience it. That's how I could describe emotions. It's more like the engine, what you got quite close to your heart or your guts. That's why you got that feeling sometimes in your guts or you got in your close to your chest, if you go back for two thousand back in the history, everybody pointing to their chest because they feel the first emotion level then to their guts. Does the second and the third one might be sometimes the head with a headache.
That's their nervous system. And you've got two brains, the one in your gut, anyone in your head and your heart. When the adrenaline pumps, your heart rate goes up. And that makes that that's the manifestation of it.
But your emotions are your nervous system.
Why? Why didn't your endocrine system, your hormones and the two things work together, so, yeah, it is we can bring it down to the physical, but nonetheless it is.
And there's the prime of the primal reactions, which I suppose you can't control and that but then there's the LEVEL-HEADED bit. The brain goes into rational thought and that that I suppose it's alluding to that you need to bring that into play rather than the fact that the adrenaline running all over the place.
But it's a combination of the two. So it's the body reacting to that stimulus. That visual stimulus, but your sense is all of your senses come into play. And so your body is a vehicle for all of those stimuli that are coming at you, and it's the brain that seeks to interpret it and rationalize what it actually is.
But you cannot even have an emotion. And about some that's not even happening. Like you can actually think of, like a memory or an imaginary imagined reality or future, you can have an emotional reaction to it. But it's not even happening right now. Like I think I used to be so emotionally led. But it just let me turn in circles, because I think emotions are indicators. They shouldn't be dictators. True, yeah, total. OK, well, thank you, everyone, for being here.
So I think we've we've come to the end of tonight. And I've got some other. Topics I'll be putting up with maybe develop more about mastery and. Some of the other ideas. Excuse me, Rob, before you finish, Alan has a comment here. Some men have three brains.
I'm sorry, but I need to know I was with God and Alan, I'm not willing to lower the tone.
OK, this is the judgment of the court on Sunday. But I was wondering if you are beat.
Well, I did nothing. I admitted to nothing.
I thought you are going to take this up scientific.
So which will have Alan.
Alan is going to take next week on Ommen said brain will be short and sweet.
We heard Alan.
OK. All right. Well, thanks everyone for being here and hopefully see you next week.
Good night. Goodbye.