In this episode of Be & Think in the House of Trust, Servane listens to Patricia Hamzahee, a true community catalyst and campaigner for responsible and community investing. Patricia is an advocate for measuring what matters, and elevating black entrepreneurship. She also sits on various boards and investment committees. (Social Enterprise UK, Better Society Capital).

Highlights in this episode:

• Learning from a multicultural upbringing in Japan to impactful work for fairness, equity, and community
• Fostering common ground in environments where scarcity and control often dominate.
• Reflecting on the current state of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives, and the impact of legal challenges, backlashes and public perception.
• Committing to measure and track investments and opportunities to ensure accountability and genuine progress in equity and inclusion.
• Venturing: Patricia is creating a community development finance institution (CDFI) in the UK to channel investments into underserved communities.

Useful Links

• Connect with Patricia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patriciahamzahee
• Black Funding Network: https://blackfundingnetwork.org
• Extend Venture: https://extendventure.org

Connect with Servane:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/servanemouazan/

Website: https://servanemouazan.co.uk

Subscribe to Conscious Innovation updates:

http://eepurl.com/hp0h55

Servane Mouazan: Welcome to be and think in the House of Trust, the podcast with and for people who love to invest in social and environmental change. My name is Servane and as a thinking partner, I love to invite my guests to explore how we show up, what's in the way of change, how we can re trigger, reactivate or amplify positive change. So follow the questions as you go. Pause, take notes, take your and insights out of the house with your friends, colleagues and to conference panels. That's a great thing to do. Importantly, connect with me, connect with my guests to share your freshest thoughts. So I'm curious to see what's going to happen there.

Servane asks Patricia Hamzahee about social finance and corporate communications

My guest today, and I'm so delighted to have her, uh, in the house of trust, is Patricia Hamzahee Patricia is a seasoned expert in corporate communications and financial markets with decades of experience advising companies on strategic positioning and stakeholder engagement, while also advocating for responsible investing practices. She supports social enterprises when they are looked to attract private investments. She brings energy and vibrancy to the black funding network where she fiercely promotes access to funding for underrepresented and underestimated groups. She leads research with extend venture. She serves on various boards including Big Society Capital's investment committees, social Enterprise UK, women in social finance. In short, if you've never heard of Patricia, I wonder where you've been. And what I love about Patricia's journey is that she thinks out of the box. She smashes the box and finds a nurture's connection to turn insight into action. And that is powerful. So let's see how she does all of that and what question Patricia wants to challenge us with. So, hello, Patricia.

Patricia Hamzahee: Hello, Servane Um, thank you so much for inviting me to take part in this. Thank you,

Servane Mouazan: Patricia, let's start. Your cv is impressive. Your whole life story is huge. So we don't have much time. And if I can ask you so that people get an understanding of who you are and what makes you who you are, what are the key milestones that shaped your thinking today and your advocacy and your presence and your campaigning.

00:05:00

Patricia Hamzahee: concept that we, all of us, can be a community of support and of mutual understanding. And, um, that's what has shaped me, I think, through everything I've ever done, um, from those early, early days when I was in Japan, trying to look at the world, through to living at International House and then finally landing here in the UK and having another way of thinking about what the experience of life would be like.

Servane Mouazan: A strong sense of fairness and belonging, the acknowledgement that belong, that we all belong to multiple identities and we can all live together.

Patricia Hamzahee: I know, again, I've seen it lived and done, we can bring our identities into a common ground. Right? You know, it doesn't, we don't all have to be all singing and all dancing, but we can be ourselves and know that there is safety in common ground. And I work for that common ground in everything I do, because I just know that that's where our best selves, our best efforts, our best, um, results are achieved if we are really working from that common ground.

Patricia says people still operate from a position of scarcity around social issues

Servane Mouazan: So, Patricia, at, uh, the intersection of your work in investing in research and campaigning, supporting for social ventures and all the stuff you do, you've got firm beliefs, as you just stated. And I wonder what might be some questions that are still floating in your mind and for which you have no answer, but you're still in discovery mode.

Patricia Hamzahee: I think that I continue to be surprised, I suppose, by how easy I talk about common ground, but then I can observe and see other people. People feeling quite um, fearful, quite nervous, uh, quite uh, tentative. And so rather than working on common ground, I can see people really retreating to safe and narrower territories to be very um, siloed in their approach. Uh, again, I work a lot in the social finance and social investment world and even in that space where it should be more about community and the public good. But even in that space, people are still operating from a uh, position of real scarcity and the need to control and manage and, and um, direct, uh, direct resources, support, um, uh, uh, in a very narrowly targeted way. And that surprises me because I love to think that there is abundance. If we all come together, there is really abundance. And it's only when we are really just trying to work to a narrow agenda, very, you know, very specific and particular agenda, that sense of scarcity. And you know, sometimes I'm in conversations with people and organizations I think should know better. When you just get the feeling, you know, that there can be only one, you know, only one can win, only one can be upfront, only one can be the, you know, the influencer, etcetera. That makes me sad. And that really. Yeah, that is something I try to guard against, work against in many ways.

Servane Mouazan: Have you had um, experiencing people moving away from that position of scarcity towards something more abundant and more content and at ease with being together with others, not having to fight for the first position?

Patricia Hamzahee: Yeah. Yeah. I uh, you know, I do think when it happens, it makes people, you know, the people observing all of a sudden, you know, are empowered, are, you know, inspired and you see a shift in the energy. You see a shift in the kind of the um, um, way you say that, you know, the energy of it, you know, you can see. I just think people don't trust it. You know, you're talking about the house of trust here, but I think that is an important word, you know, that people have to trust. And once they see it in action, that's when you can get the kind of change we're

Patricia Hamzahee: talking about. You and I know we've encountered many, many um, people, many women in particular, but many people who are actively, you know, effort with all the effort they can, um, trying to make this kind of change happen. Yeah. So it's out there, it's happening, but there's still a lot of work to do. And I'm quite nervous, actually, that right now we're at a kind of a tipping point of what could be and where sort of the powers of darkness might be really working against because they are afraid to give up their power, they are afraid of losing influence.

Servane Mouazan: So it's a reflection of been having not with you amongst others, but others as well, that it was, uh, the realization that people were holding limiting assumptions that made them continue to behave like that. In this position of scarcity of things. Like once we debunk these assumptions, people found freedom more ease as well. So I wonder how we can bring these, uh, these topics of, you know, assumptions to the fore. Just understanding what has. You believe this, you know, what's check what's true.

Patricia Hamzahee: I do think it is about having those conversations, not being afraid to call things out when they. When uncomfortable things happen, circumstances and, you know, discussions and meetings and where, you know, you really question, is that really what just. And so you're not afraid to call things out, but also just encourage people to have honest conversations and just, is this what we really mean? Is this what we really want to do? And then have people examine what's going on. And often, if you can do that, and again, in a not confrontational, um, way, honest conversation, I think when people actually have the opportunity to explore, discuss, and unpick, um, things all of a sudden, and again, you get a shift, you know, people start understanding what. Oh, I really didn't know. That's how you experience, you know, where what I was trying to, you know, say or, or do. And. And I think those dialogues, you know, become, you know, real, you know, those are the proper exchanges. They're just not the sort of the polite conversations we have, you know, and just trying to get a few things done. We speak in a kind of knowing way, uh, to just move the agenda along. M when the agenda has gone moved along, we all sit there going, really? Is that as far as we can go?

Servane Mouazan: Yeah. So it's limiting. What's limiting our thinking. I hear you that. So creating places where dialogue, true, generative dialogue, is happening in a place free of judgment, where people come with the desire to be truly curious, without assumptions, without having the end of your sentences in mind, assuming that they know what you're going to say. So when you drop that at the door and you come with a place from a place of curiosity, this might be, uh, a tool that we can use or a behavior that we can use.

Despite backlash, executives report expanding diversity initiatives despite backlash

So I know that something very close to your heart right now is all about equity, diversity, inclusion and belonging. And you've touched on this, uh, a few minutes ago, and we're seeing some peaks here and there, backtracking. I've done a little bit of research and I've seen some surveys actually emerging that in reality, a lot of executives, in some certain surveys, like a lot of executives, report that the organization expand their, uh, DEI activities or DeI diversity, equity and inclusion, uh, over the previous year, even despite the backlash that has happened in the media and in working places. And, uh, some people say that efforts were holding steady and only a tiny amount of people reported that the level of commitment or activity had decreased around AI. So one survey even stated 6% only. There is also another, uh, research by the Pew research center, a, uh, survey that found that 56% of workers see Dei in a workplace as a good thing, and only 15%, 16% reporting viewing it as a bad thing, which is a bit binary, but so it was, in many research, surprisingly uncontroversial. Said I wonder, what is that backlash about? And what do we focus? What is it that make us turn our eyes and just believe that people are totally, uh, against it, like in a tidal wave, whereas the numbers, you know, the big crowd, the silence, crowds, like, no, actually, we like it. What's your view on that?

Patricia Hamzahee: So I would say I do

Patricia Hamzahee: think that there is a big pause on Dei, primarily, um, coming from the US, because there is a lot of legal challenges that have really caused people to have to wait and see. And, um, because many of the dei kind of initiatives and strategies and campaigning had been led by many american institutions. For example, I would say the, um, uh, racial equity funding that was being, um, earmarked here for social impact or just startup VC funding here, there was a whole wave after the 2020 cultural shift that was happening after George Floyd's murder. Um, people made promises, commitments to do better and more, um, but a lot of the commitments, especially of investment and so on, um, and support, a lot of that came from american companies, obviously, because that was where the initiative mostly had started. And those american companies, because of what's going on in the courts, in the US, even at the Supreme Court level, um, have paused and very publicly, big companies have said, we're, um, moving on from Dei, etcetera. And I think when that happens, then the british companies, companies here, or the international companies based here also are thinking, oh, well, let's see what's going to happen. So I do think there is a slowdown and a pause. It surprised me, however, to know that the people in organizations, in companies, in institutions, are supportive of DEI. On the whole, it makes sense that the employees would be, uh, supportive, because it's nothing, you know, an us against them. It's not, you know, it is about culture, it is about everyone. Kind of really knowing how to respect each other and support each other. So I'm not surprised about that. The people who don't like it, but unfortunately they have the most power, uh, are the people in charge, they are the most uncomfortable and turn the dial down or up as they want.

Servane Mouazan: Yes. It makes me think that some of these trends are just followed blindly, uh, like bad YouTube influencers material. It's just crazy and it just overtakes the world. Whereas people do see the benefits of more equity, diversity, inclusion, belonging, work, because.

Patricia Hamzahee: It becomes something that's ingrained in the organization when it's done well. Right, and for the right reasons, not formative or, you know, of the moment in the trend. They know they're pursuing something because they know it's going to make the organization better, then there isn't a dispute, there's not any issues. Um, there are some really terrible dei practices and companies because they're not done because they want to make the organization better. They don't do it because they know that it will make, you know, a company effective, efficient, more profitable. I mean, there are so many measures that when an organization is truly using all the talents in the firm well, and, you know, encouraging the talents within an organization, you know, um, in the right way, you know, those are all positives for a company or an organization.

Servane Mouazan: Absolutely. So. And there's many proof to show that.

Patricia, what challenges or provocations would you like to put forward

So, Patricia, what challenges or provocations would you like to put forward or make people accountable for? I just like a call to action here. Something really meaty.

Patricia Hamzahee: One of the biggest things I think is there is just, I mean, again, as you said, I've done research with extend ventures, um, in terms of measuring, you know, access to finance, access to opportunities. There's a lot of data, you know, we are just extend was just one. But there's decades and decades and decades of data that shows that there are intrinsic inequities, inequalities and lack of opportunities. I mean, really intrinsic. Running meat just has shown that there's ten times less wealth in black and bangladeshi asian communities than in white community here. You know, just, you know, one in two black and asian children are, ah, in poverty. You know, there's some basic stats that we can get around. So evidence matters, right? Evidence matters. And I think the biggest publication I have across the social investment and finance space and the traditional commercial side is to measure, to do, just keep track of what, where and what you are

Patricia Hamzahee: investing in. You know, where you're putting your resources, who's benefiting, and, you know, whether it's your own employees, whether it's the customers you serve across all of the different ways that you define performance, just to measure it. Such evidence, the measuring is for you as an organization, um, or as a leader as well as a leader in terms of how many people as a leader sitting in an organization, how many people you hire, how many people people you promote, how many people leave. All of those measures, it's to hold you to account. It's not for um, sort of advertising purposes. Right. We serve 30% more or 60% more or whatever. That's not the purpose. It is for you to know properly, credibly, how well or not you're doing. So I really believe ethnicity, pay gaps, recording customer served recordings, I um, think that the saying is that what gets measured, gets done. And if we want to see an equitable, accessible, open access approach, then you have to just make sure and measure that. So that's, I think, my biggest, biggest challenge.

Servane Mouazan: Measuring for accountability and to be able to serve a story that has complete, uh, ingredients, not just one side of the story. Patricia, what is your promise to yourself if you want to disclose it? And what do you need to accomplish this?

Servane Mouazan: Wow, fantastic. So, so grateful for your stories of fairness, abundance, place base and black investing and this story of hope and accountability. As well. Our call to action. Thank you Patricia for this insightful moment.

Patricia Hamzahee: Thank you so much.

Servane Mouazan: So you all, I look forward to welcoming you back to the house of Trust again. Subscribe to the show anywhere you can find your podcast for more insights and opportunities to think independently for yourself or your team. You can head to my website, servanemouazan.co.UK and sign up for the regular conscious innovation updates and upcoming courses and events for people who love to invest in social change and ignite a positive impact. So I look forward to connecting with you all and see what you made of Patricia's insight and call to action as well. I look forward to listening to you. Goodbye.