We are focusing on driver courtesy and road etiquette. The discussion deals with the importance of being polite and respectful on the road, plus reminds everyone of basic rules taught during DMV testing. John talks car accident fault and the time lost beyond that of just the crash. Additionally, we mention the introduction of driver's licenses and the requirement for automobiles to make audible noises in the UK and the US. For once the the goal is to keep the discussion positive and offer gentle reminders rather than complaints.

Don't forget to buy us some gas (coffee), if you enjoy the show.

www.nodrivinggloves.com

00:01:14 Driver courtesy is important.

00:08:08 Pay attention to all traffic.

00:14:05 Be cautious and attentive while driving.

00:20:33 Use turn signals courteously.

00:26:28 Check lights for safety.

00:32:09 Importance of vehicle lights for safety.

00:39:09 Be cautious and courteous in parking lots.

00:48:06 Backing into parking spots improves safety.

00:53:43 Work the zipper for efficient traffic flow.

00:59:53 Merging onto highways requires caution.

01:02:46 Be courteous to emergency service.

#cars #car #carpodcast #collectorcars oldcars #cartalk #electriccars #ev #hotrod #carhistory #automotivehistory #automobile #thisdayinautomotivehistory #thisdayinhistory #classiccars

Swell AI Transcript: DriverCourtesydone.mp3

Derek: How do you keep it positive when complaining about people who are not courteous?

Announcer: If you want to talk about cars, Ferrari, GTO, Bentley, CRX, and even down to your great-granddad's beardless, welcome to No Driving Lies, the Car Talk Authority, where experienced knowledge and controversy share the same seat. Enjoy the ride. Now your hosts, John and Derek.

John: Thank you for joining us for No Driving Gloves. We're going to have a positive episode. We're going to discuss driver courtesy and just gently remind people some of these things that they may have forgotten. A lot of them were even taught during your DMV testing. We might even discuss about how we feel about license renewals. And John has always had his theory about car accident fault.

Derek: John, I don't know if I can participate in this episode. I'm a sovereign citizen and I don't need a driver's license, sir.

Derek: That's pretty cool. Sorry, I just had to be sarcastic because I'm getting really irritated by all those videos that are getting posted of people. claiming this whole sovereign citizen thing and just.

John: Well, we don't get political here or not.

Derek: I know. I know. I guess. Let's get on to the topic.

John: Sovereign citizen is non-political.

Derek: That's true.

John: No, I I've mentioned before, I drive a lot every month. I drive a lot more than most people every month. Heck, I drive as much some months as some people drive in a year. there's a lot of simple driver courtesies that are forgotten. Or there's a lot of driver assumptions that because I have this, everybody should have this. I'll be honest, I've really considered adding a backup beeper to my car because Well, we'll get to things like that and it's trying to keep it positive We're not we're not trying to make this a negative show.

Derek: Uh, we have a team that's needed to bitch But these are just gentle reminders Now before you jump in john before you jump in because you said the backup beeper thing I'm, not sure if I mentioned this on the show or not already, but I have found out that, and you know, we, we talk about electric cars, things like that on the show. We won't get too far into it, but I found out the other day, did you know the Ford Maverick, the new Ford Maverick hybrid? When, you know, it, it has a backup beeper from factory. You put it in reverse. Yeah. You put it in reverse and it's got a little beep, beep, beep, beep. That's outside the vehicle, not inside.

John: This is a question I've been thinking about. I haven't researched. They passed all these laws in the UK, and I thought the US passed one, that electric cars had to make an audible tone on the exterior when in operation, and I noticed they don't do that. The Porsche Taycan has a, you know, I know it's famous for its Jetson sound, but it has various noises that it can emanate. And I thought this was a requirement of all electric cars to kind of make a noise as they were at least at parking lot speeds. But I don't hear it, don't see it. And of course, we're seeing more and more electric cars, so they just like to sneak up on you.

Derek: Well, here's the question. Is it actually your hearing as you're getting older? Is it, are some of the cars emanating a pitch that some people can't hear?

John: I have no idea where to find it. I could go way, way, way through probably my emails, but I knew somebody who 15, not 15, maybe 12 years ago wrote in her blog, about almost getting run over by a Prius in a parking lot because the electric noise. And that would let's see here. She's. That I put her at about twenty eight, twenty nine years old, I think at the time she wrote that. So I would assume her hearing was pretty decent.

Derek: No. OK, well, it was just a theory. It was just a theory, you know. We're all getting older.

John: We're old. And at one point in time, that was one of Lotus Engineering's biggest contracts was helping develop noises for electric vehicles. We'll see where it goes. Maybe Lotus was doing it for themselves since they've now introduced their last ICE engine. I hate it. I hate it when people say ICE engine because that's saying internal combustion engine engine.

Derek: It's just like saying, what's your VIN number? Well, my vehicle identification number number is.

John: Stupid people. And that's wrong. Uninformed people.

Derek: They're just not being courteous with automotive terminology, John.

John: Maybe we should make that an episode. Rhetorical automotive terms.

Derek: Oh, nice. The Department of Redundancy Department.

John: Eric, what is one of the things that you might find irritating or that you have… What's a driver courtesy you believe people have forgotten over the years?

Derek: There we go, because we're keeping it positive, John. Remember. One of the biggest ones for me is I appreciate the drivers out there that remember the courtesy of paying attention to all of the traffic around you, not just what's going on in front of you where you're headed, but rather also paying attention to what's happening behind you, what's happening to your left, what's happening to your right, because Part of that courtesy, and I remember this being taught in drivers education, right? Drivers education was a lot different when I went through it, when John went through it from what it is today. It's not a traffic law by any means, but it is one of those courteous things. is that you pay attention to all of the traffic around you, not only for your own safety, but also just to keep the flow of traffic moving the way it should. Because one of the biggest problems is when people are not paying attention to everything around them, being courteous to the drivers around them. That's part of the reason we wind up with some of the backups we have. Not paying attention at traffic lights. Whether it's, you have a green, green arrow, whatever, and you're not paying attention. You don't turn, you don't actively participate in that signaling. And now you've backed up five, six people in a turn lane. The light turns red. Now you've got a whole nother batch of people coming from other traffic lights that are timed. try to keep traffic flow moving through cities, and we wind up with gridlock because one person wasn't being courteous, paying attention to the light, how much traffic's behind them, all of that. Because it's really what makes the flow of traffic keep moving is that you actively participate, you're courteous, and you keep the flow of traffic moving. That's one of my biggest ones. a common courtesy that I think every driver needs to remember. We are not alone in driving. We are driving with everyone on the road.

John: And that statement actually brings up two courtesies that people forget. One is when you're in a left turn lane, you have the right to the intersection as long as you have the green. Correct. And the way we were instructed in driver's ed, And I've read and seen this reiterated numerous times. When you pull up to the intersection and you're making a left turn in a left turn lane, the first car is allowed to pull into the intersection. So it's prepared to do that left turn. I hate the people that sit there at the stop line waiting for their left turn because now you've basically eliminated any chance of you completing that left turn. Now, The other courtesy there is when the light changes yellow or changes red, the other drivers have to remember whoever is in the intersection has the right to the intersection. It doesn't mean because I have a green light, I have the ability to go. Whoever is in the intersection has the right to that intersection and you are allowed to complete your left turn, then the other traffic is to go. I learned this kind of the hard way, and this is using an Illinois traffic law, and I do realize other states are different, where I entered an intersection, I believe on a yellow, and I crossed lane one, lane two, center turn lane, center turn lane, lane three, got halfway through lane four, and the lady hit the right rear quarter of the car I was driving. I had rights to where I was. I didn't know it at the time. This was explained to me later by an attorney. And of course, I was ticketed for running a red light, but I had the legal right to enter the intersection on the yellow. And I had the legal right then to clear the intersection before the other traffic went This lady was just watching the traffic light and as soon as it turned green went She didn't even see me. She even admitted she didn't see me because she wasn't like you said Hey, this is actually Paying attention to cars in front of you. Let alone to the right and left so After that point in time, a certain Mazda dealership in the city I lived in in Illinois no longer had loaner cars because I was in a loaner car while my car was in the shop when this happened.

Derek: Yeah, so it really comes down to actively, what I would call actively participating in driving, where you have to actively pay attention to everything going on around you and not just, well, light turned green, it's time to go. That's a bad idea anyway, because When that light turns green, you should not immediately hit the gas. You need to look left, look right and make sure somebody's not barreling down that road you're about to cross and not paying attention to the fact that they have the red light and they're going to blow through. I've seen that like three times, witnessed accidents where somebody, the light turned green, they go and somebody's blowing the red and it's never a pretty sight.

John: Yes, I will admit that happened the other day to me and I was the guy blowing the red. I just didn't notice it. And fortunately, the big dump truck. Took caution and realized I wasn't going to stop, so.

Derek: So everyone listening, we need to track down that dump truck and you guys can thank him because you still have no driving gloves, thanks to that dump truck driver.

John: Well, I probably would have survived it, but just one of those things. I'm not I'm saying I'm even guilty of this on the rare occasion. The other thing that came out of your observation about inattentiveness and driving and not paying attention to your surroundings. Again, one thing I was taught in driver's ed. And remember, driver's ed for me was 34 years ago or more.

Derek: John's old.

John: Yes. When you're making a left turn also, especially on a two-lane highway or any sort of two-lane road especially, you always check over your left shoulder to make sure nobody's decided they're tired of waiting for you to make a left turn and is trying to pass you. And I've had this happen on occasion. And it's one reason I'm against like Elon Musk and all these manufacturers saying, we don't need outside rear view mirrors. We can do it with cameras. Well, the camera now has me focused at the center of the dashboard, where when I'm making my left turn, I don't necessarily look over my shoulder anymore, but I do always glance in my driver's side mirror to make sure that that what would be oncoming traffic lane is clear because I have been passed like that before, too. You know, you're sitting there and some guy behind you might be might just be rude or he might be going too fast and didn't realize you stopped. So he's jerked off to the left and, you know, try it ends up going around you or something. So you have to look behind you and in front of you when you're making that turn.

Derek: That's, that's a big one. I've had, I've, uh, I actually had a family member seriously, seriously injured by that happening. She, she made a left turn on a state highway up in Michigan and the guy like three or four cars back, um, from her, you know, the line of traffic behind her, he just. clearly didn't have the time to wait and booked around as she was actively making the left-hand turn because traffic had cleared and T-boned her right in the driver's side door and pinned, actually, she was pinned in the car for a while because it did so much damage to the left side of the car. Yeah, that's a big one. We got to pay attention.

John: Now, on that one, this is the courtesy that actually does violate traffic laws. And it's something I learned, again, 20 plus years ago, I would say probably when I was living in Kansas. This was a very, very common thing in Kansas. And then I saw it again in rural northern Virginia. I don't recommend doing this in a metro area, but when you're driving rural and you're on a two lane highway, and you're going to be making a left turn if the oncoming traffic lane in front of you is completely clear and it is a passing zone. You put your left turn signal on and then as you become to the intersection you then go to the you kind of like pretend you're passing nobody you go into the oncoming traffic lane. So the people behind you don't have to slow down and you're able to complete your left turn now again, you have to treat it like you're passing a vehicle, you have to make sure it's a passing zone, you have to make sure there's no one coming traffic. And you have to be very clear of your intent to make a left turn and be signaling it and check over your shoulder that nobody's going to try to pass you, you know, as you're slowing down. And they go, well, I'm going 60. He's slowing down. So he's going to you got to make sure that there's a lot of things going on in that. But it's a very simple, very courteous move that's probably borderline illegal to do. Again, it's a driver courtesy and If we're courteous, it's great. And I'm not, some driver courtesies that technically don't follow the law are a pain in the ass. You know, you coming to a stop to let me turn out of the steakhouse, you know, to get into main traffic while the rest of traffic is moving at 40 miles an hour down the road isn't the best thing in the world.

Derek: To back up to that comment, John, and you mentioned that you saw it in Kansas and then rural, what was it, Virginia? I don't remember where you said it now. But that is very common. I mean, I grew up, I think everybody listens to the show knows I grew up big farm, rural area of Michigan. You on the farm that's just common practice we're driving one of the big grain trucks or something like that your tractors even even just driving around in the farm truck. Yeah if there's no oncoming traffic we got traffic coming up behind were turning left into the farm or something it was always just the courtesy to. to pull over to the oncoming lanes so long as it was clear and pull into the farm and let the traffic that's moving at speed in the right lane keep going. Again, it's one of those kind of common courtesies, especially when you're driving slow equipment. It's just like slow equipment when they have the ability to pull off the side of the shoulder to let people have better visibility to pass. It's just kind of one of those common rural farm courtesies, if you will. But you mentioned signaling, making sure that whenever we're turning left, turning right, whatever, signaling, that kind of also, to me, brings up the fact that we have to use our turn signals. That is, I mean, that's a traffic law, right? You can get pulled over for not using your turn signal. We also have to remember that there's a courteous way of using that turn signal. And that is not turning it on as you are beginning the turn. The turn signal is there to also indicate, hence the reason many places call it an indicator, what your intentions are. And and I say this because just literally yesterday and I thought about the the show as I'm driving home yesterday from from work. I was in Nashville traffic. And the lane I was in had had come to quite a almost stop the middle lane on my left. I was in the slow lane was clearing and I had a I had a clearing, had my turn signal on. for probably a good 10 seconds, at least, maybe 15, waiting for two cars that were coming to go by me. And as I began my move left into that center lane, a Suburban going at an extremely high rate of speed, which I had seen in my left rear view mirror that was out in the fast lane, began to come into the middle lane and as they were just beginning to move, they turned on their right indicator. And let me just say that had I not dove back into my spot, uh, in the right lane, slow lane, there would have been one heck of a rear end accident that, that would have got me a new car. So, and hopefully not sent me to the hospital. We also have to think about that. If you're, if you're doing any of this, you know, if you're, you're making these courteous moves, things like that, also use your indicator to indicate your intentions before you just do it.

John: One of the things I noticed driving in LA, and I don't know if it's changed, it's been a decade or so since I've been to LA, they had this driver's habit of they would turn their turn signal on to indicate a lane change. It flashes twice, and then they would do the lane change, basically without checking mirrors. And I noticed this kind of procedure in the Washington, D.C. area. Three flashes, lane change. And basically, it's telling you, I have an intent to make a lane change. and your job is to avoid me. Well, that's really not the thing, but the problem is, as a lot of this has come down to now, you show your intention, and then the driver behind you doesn't want you in front of them, so they accelerate. Derek, you pull trailers, you know how this is. Oh, yeah. Nobody wants a truck pulling a trailer in front of them. You signal your lane change to be courteous and safe, and everybody wants to cut you off. Semis are really good about this too, having this happen to them. When you're on the interstate and a semi needs to move over and you're not, to me, if I'm not up to the axles of the trailer and I see them intend a lane change, I usually will slow down, flash my brights to indicate that they have room to move over. That's another driver courtesy, flash your brights, let the semi know you're aware of what they're doing, that you're allowing them to come over. Or on the other hand is when they pass you and they pass you on the left. you can flash your brights to let them know they're past you and they can re-enter the lane in front of you safely. It helps them tremendously and every now and then you'll see them flash their lights back as a thank you. Doesn't happen as much anymore because I don't think they're used to the driver courtesy. But you have to be, again, you have to be careful. When somebody signals they're doing a lane change, a lot of times they see that there's a little bit of room And they can get over safely and who knows they may need to get over two lanes to make an upcoming turn or They might have an accident in front of them or the big one that I see all the time is they're actually coming to the left lane because there is a safety vehicle, whether it be a police officer or a fire truck or tow truck on the side of the interstate, helping somebody. And these people need to get over because now they're watching to try to make the lane change and watching that they don't run over whatever aid worker is on the side of the interstate. So they're multitasking, distracting. When it does come down to indicators, the very simple one is every now and then you've got to look around your car and make sure your brake lights are all functioning. It's not your chismal, your center high mounted stop lamp is sometimes hard to check unless you have somebody else. But the two taillights on the corner of your vehicle, the brake lights, commonly are indicators unless you have the amber indicators. And sometimes you can just turn your hazards on and walk around your vehicle and then you're checking both are your brake lights working and are your indicators working. Uh, just a nice, it's technically something you're supposed to do every time you get in the vehicle. You're supposed to do a preliminary walk around and safety check, make sure the tires have air in them, make sure all your lights are working. We know one out of 330 million Americans might actually do this.

Derek: Wait, you don't, you don't have a, you don't have your pre-flight checklist that you go through every morning in your car, John?

John: Not. every morning. I do at least do a walk around when I'm at a hotel. I guarantee you that. I don't necessarily check all the lights and that, but I'm making sure nobody stole a light or let the air out of the tires or put jack rocks or something under it. Again, it's just another one of those common courtesies. It's for your safety and for others, because that 10 seconds or 15 seconds, even once a week, could save you from a traffic stop, which doesn't happen that often for lights anymore because no cop's going to risk getting shot over you not having a taillight. That 10 or 15 seconds, if you have one accident a year, you're going to lose an hour or two with the accident. And just in the dealing with the cop, getting the tow truck, couple of phone calls, if your car actually has to go to a body shop in that, I used to feel that on a snow day, I used to always try to get into work. And then one day I got thinking about it, I go, if I actually crash on the way into work, and I've got more vacation time than I ever know what to do with, I not only am going to miss that day of work or a chunk of that day of work, I'm gonna miss half a day dealing with the body shop. I'm gonna miss half a day picking up the car from the body shop I'm gonna miss half a day because of the various phone calls It's worth taking the day off and not crashing the car. I'm, sorry employer, but The odds of me crashing are yes minuscule, but if it does happen Why not just use the time that you're not going to use? You know, right now I'm in this thing where I've got to take half the month of November off because we have use it or lose it vacation with the company I'm with. And we have a vacation blackout period for November and December. So I have to use up all my vacation this month. I have to anticipate, and crazy, I have to anticipate the vacation that I'm going to earn over the next two months that I can't take. This private bitch. Sorry, I bitch. Should we add the last one on or the couple other lighting while we're on lighting?

Derek: Heck yeah.

John: Lights on in the rain.

Derek: Very important.

John: There's a difference between headlights and DRL, daytime running lights. Just because your car has daytime running lights does not mean your headlights are on in the rain. Because when you run your daytime running lights, most manufacturers run them at a lower wattage or a lower voltage or basically a lower intensity to save bulb life, conserve a little bit of electricity. And they don't turn on your taillights. And that's the bit, you know, your headlights definitely do help when I'm turning in that oncoming traffic. Your taillights help the guy behind you. And if you're driving through a pouring rain with your wipers on and only your daytime running lights are on, you have no taillights. It does no good. to me is a difference between DRL, daytime running lights, and headlights. Yes, they both function the same devices in your car, but headlights also are all encompassing, referring to the lights on the front of the car, lights on the side of the car, the lights on the rear of the car. And please remember that when you turn your lights on or your wipers on, you should always turn your lights on. You know, one or two swipes, nah, don't worry about it. But if your wipers are on for a sustained period of time and it's actively raining or misting, I mean, even if you're on very, very slow intermittent, it's just a courtesy to have your lights on. And all these courtesies are more safety things, things to be aware of around you and things to relay to your friends. Most of you listening to No Driving Gloves know this stuff, but we're saying it to say, hey, get your friends to do some of this stuff. It will make a much safer driving environment. And body shops make enough money the way it is.

Derek: Yeah, it is. And that's just again, it's it's courtesy, but it's also safety, people. I mean, it's just smart. Make sure that people can see where your vehicle is. And we have to remember, You know, when in the earliest days of the automobile, and for those of you who have not seen or been around horseless carriage, brass era cars, headlights, cowl lights, what we would call side marker lights now, tail lights back then, they were not necessarily for visibility of the person driving the car. Those lights were on the vehicle. to alert carriage drivers, other automobile drivers, where that vehicle was. There's a reason that taillights are red. That tells you where the back of the vehicle is. Yeah, these were always, when the car first started out, it was a safety measure to know where the vehicle was and which direction it was going. Now, as time developed, more cars on the road, you know, more nighttime driving in the extreme dark. Yes, headlight technology gets better. We use it to see down the road. But lights on the vehicles, just like lights on a boat, have always been also about alerting other drivers where the vehicle is, which direction it's going for safety purposes. So this isn't just, oh, isn't it nice that I turn these on and I can see? And it's it's also a courtesy and a safety for everyone else on the road to understand what's going on, especially in the dark or a heavy rainstorm where, you know, again, it might be the middle of the day, but it can get pretty dark in some of those storms. So that's my my little rant on that.

John: The final one I have on lights is dimming of your bright lights, or at least paying attention to the intensity of your lights. I know this is becoming more and more of a non-issue, or we think it is, with auto-dimming bright lights, with the day-night rearview mirrors and such. But when you're behind somebody, especially for those poor people like us that drive cars and you're in a truck, you really don't need your brights on. You actually will make me drive slower because it's blinding me and I have to pay more attention to the road. You're not doing anything but harming yourself. And of course, oncoming, a lot of times, you know, you have somebody coming with your brights on, the typical driver's ed thing is to say, to look to the right and down and watch the side painted line on the roads. Make sure you're staying in your lane. That's almost impossible to do anymore with the intensity of lights. It's just, you know, my cars have auto dimming bright lights, but I'm always paying attention when I'm coming up on traffic. I make sure that they do dim because they don't dim every time. Or you get into a little area where They dim and they don't. They dim and they don't. They dim and they don't. Just because of the oncoming traffic and the light reflections. And it's just at that point, it's better to dim them because then the person approaching is not having flashing bright lights coming towards them and making you look like a cop or something.

Derek: Yeah, well, and I think we also have to remember the the way of being courteous with this, because On two-lane roads, or let's say either a two-lane back road, two-lane state highways, whatever, obviously people are aware. Like, okay, a car is coming at me. I'm going to dim my lights. That is what you're supposed to do. There are people out there that don't. Let's face it. What really, really gets me is the lack of courtesy on the interstate highway system. Because for some reason, people think that because it's a divided roadway, let's say it's a north-south freeway, you've got your northbound lanes, median, southbound lanes. And for some reason, people say, I'm headed northbound, and there's Late at night, maybe only a little bit of traffic, southbound lane, somebody's running their bright lights and they don't dim them. It's still the common courtesy should be to dim those lights because I don't think people quite understand how bright bright lights can be.

John: especially with the new headlights that auto manufacturers are using. I mean, we're getting better. And when these new smart headlamp bulbs actually filter all the way down to the most basic of vehicles, this is kind of supposed to become a non-issue. The more it becomes a non-issue, probably the bigger issue it's going to become. One of the things that really got me thinking about this topic and driver courtesy. And then this goes back to pedestrian courtesy because, you know, everything's a two-way street is the actions that take place in parking lots any longer. Whether it be the housing complex that I live in, where people just love to fly through the parking areas here at 40, 50 miles an hour. We had this great little three-pack of ducks. We called them the gang of three. They were friendly as could be, would walk up to your car in the morning and they're just looking for a little treat or something. Somebody hit one of them and unfortunately was the leader of this duck like a year ago, nine months ago. The other two ducks disappeared for a long time and just recently have they started to come back out. but they don't go anywhere near the roadway now. They stay near the lakes. They are finally integrating with some of the geese, but they lost their leader because somebody decided getting home two and a half seconds quicker was more important than, in this case, a duck's life, which okay, maybe you don't care it's a duck. But you get the same thing whether you're driving through a Walmart or Target, JCPenney's, anywhere there's a parking lot, people seem to think, I can fly down the road, the aisleways as fast as I want, and everybody's going to yield to me, except pedestrians. And yes, when you're backing a vehicle, you have basically zero rights. If you back into the guy flying down the aisleway, it's your fault. But I think so many people assume people have cross-traffic sensors and backup cameras. Not every car has cross-traffic sensors or backup cameras that help with this, or even backup beepers. Second, there's a lot of different shapes of cars, different sizes of cars, different visibility out of cars. And you can't necessarily see until the windows the backseat windows are necessarily visible. So you do have to proceed with a little bit of caution and worry about the people backing out a little bit, or the guy that decides that the stripes don't mean anything to him and drives across the parking lot. And you're flying down your aisle way, justifiably so, and the guy who decides, eh, I can drive through the middle of the parking lot crossways, You're taking, you're not being, not necessarily being courteous, but you're not being safe for both of you involved. And that, again, 12 seconds you save there, if you have an accident, becomes days of lost time. I drive through a lot of parking lots a day. I'm probably in 20 different parking lots a day. So if I lost 12 seconds a parking lot, I'm losing 200 seconds. I'm losing three minutes a day.

Derek: Yeah, this is one of my, I think, big ones for me, because I mean, we all everywhere we go, we we go to a parking lot, right? I mean, Unless we're going from our house to a friend's house or a family member's house, even at that, a lot of times people are stopping at, I mean, even if you go into a fast food restaurant or drive-thru, you're going into that parking lot. Curious driving in parking lots is just something that has been forgotten. I think it's a big one because parking lots are also a very busy, active place sometimes. You've got people walking around, kids running around, cars moving in and out of spots. If you're at a grocery store or something like that, any good store, there's shopping carts that could be Left in parking spots when you're trying to pull in or when somebody else is trying to pull in there's just a lot going on just like on the road. Just slow down and be courteous and pay attention to what's going on like john said you know one mistake and. You're trying to save time, and if you hit somebody or someone hits your car, and now the time you were trying to save is long gone. Courtesy is just the way to be. And I think now especially that I have children, it sticks out more when people are not courteous in a parking lot, because young kids especially. They like to break away and just do their own thing, actively tell the kids they have to stay close in parking lots, things like that. But man, so the way some people drive through parking lots, it's. It's just scary to see, and it's a shame.

John: The thing in a parking lot, not only are we worried about the other cars, it's the people. And the problem with people these days in parking lots is they think they have the ultimate right away. And on paper, they do. But again, not everybody has a backup camera. Not everybody has a backup alert sensor. So when you're walking through a parking lot and you see the white backing lights on a car come on, the intelligent thing is to maybe put a little pause in your step and make sure that the driver backing up sees you, not just go, Whoa, I'm the pedestrian. I got the right away. Uh, no, because if that driver doesn't see you and backs into you, yeah, he might be paying for your injuries, but you have injuries.

Derek: You're injured.

John: You have broken legs and broken bones and you might be in the hospital for a few days. You're not going to get the same amount of money. that you would be working. Yeah, granted, you're in a hospital bed and you got the day off and oh, I can sue him. Well, guess what? You're not going to get compensated too much for your time in court either. And then is your employer going to give you the time off and you've got all these other things to worry about just for a half a second pause and a half a second? Well, doesn't add up that quickly. You get that or the crosswalks, it's just automatically assumed that when you're leaving the parking area, approaching the building, it doesn't matter if it's striped or not. I can walk out there and everybody's going to stop for me. Well, you got to keep in mind, these drivers are looking down aisles, looking for parking spots, wanting to get out of there. maybe being a little bit distracted with other people that are walking in front of them or frustrated, just as frustrated as you get by nobody pausing for you so that you can walk in front of their car. These drivers get frustrated by you just walking in front of their car and constantly walking in front of the car. The pedestrians that are really annoying are those that come out of the building in a group And two or three of them cross and then just about as they're done crossing The last person in their party decides oh I should probably cross You're you excuse me, but you should just get your ass run over at that point, you know Think you're the driver courtesy the guy in the car is being courteous not to run you over you need to be courteous a little bit about keeping traffic flowing because you pausing there now means another group of people come out of the store and then another group of people come out of the store and because of your hesitation and this goes back to even driving in a car your hesitation adds up and I have this and I'll say it's a bad habit, that because you didn't do this action driving and it caused me to actually not go through the light or not make the turn when I should have, you know, I could have made that turn if you didn't blow out of the parking lot and cut me off. I will add up the amount of time and pauses that that occurs. And frankly, it's it's bad for my health, because, you know, what am I going to do, chase you down and say, hey, you cost me 13 and a half minutes. No, I'm not going to most people aren't most people aren't going to do that. You just never know, though. But again, in parking lots, as a pedestrian, you have responsibilities. One of my biggest, biggest bitches to a car manufacturer is to General Motors. And what fucking genius at General Motors decided that when you push your keyless entry 1,800 feet from your car, your backup lights turn on? That one drives me nuts. Cause I'm somebody who pays attention to backup lights, backup lights. I'll stop and I'll wait. Oh wait, there's nobody in the car. Now what you've done is you've made people immune to watching for backup lights. You can't flash the tail lights. You can't, you know, make the horn beep that, you know, just a very infinite number. You know, you can't see the backup lights anyway, but no, we'll push that button. Those backup lights will stay on for 15 seconds. That's all it'll do. But that was one of the dumbest, dumbest things. And I'm not sure if it still happens on General Motors vehicles or not.

Derek: I was, I was just looking to see if I had my keys on me to hit my button to see if what it does on my Malibu. Cause I can't remember, but I don't have my keys on me.

John: No, I, that just, I, I would almost bet your wife's car does it. I don't know about your Malibu, but I'll bet your wife's car does it. a little bit more careful walking through a car, parking lot of people backing out. You've got to be, I mean, as a driver, you've got to be a little bit more careful driving through the parking lots. I think the guy backing out of the spot is the most cautious person in the parking lot, but he's at a disadvantage. Personal side note, John opinion, but this is no driving gloves, so you get those. I wish we would reverse parking lots. where right now when you say go into a Walmart parking lot and it has angled spaces and you drive down the aisle, they're angled so that you pull forward into and back out of the spot. You know how to make that parking lot safer? you reverse the traffic flow. So you drive in against the angle of those parking spots and you have to back into every parking spot. People go, oh, that's dangerous. That slows you down. No, it doesn't. You're taking a little bit more time to back in when you arrive, not a little bit more time to back out when you leave. And it's making everybody else driving through that lot be a little bit more courteous. because they can't be flying right up on you and sitting right behind you. And, you know, everybody wants to just pull into the spot and get into the store. And then you come out and you've got to waste the time. You're wasting the time before you get into the store. We'll never teach Americans that, but there are some municipalities that when the spots are like that, you're supposed to pause and back in. It causes space between the cars traveling. It actually, to me, it's easier to back in upon arrival than it is to back out upon exit. And it's safer to pull out because guess what? I'm looking at the people forward. And when I'm backing in, I've already seen the people. I've either driven by them or they're in front of me when I start to back in. So you're more aware of the pedestrians around you.

Derek: Yeah. You bring that up, John. And that's, that's actually interesting. I hadn't when, when prepping for the show, I hadn't thought about that one. uh, in the parking lot discussion and stuff like that. But, and you mentioned, I just saw it on actually on social media, not, but a week or two ago that cities municipalities around the country are starting to do this in their downtown districts. I think it's interesting. I think you're right. I think this is the way to solve some of those problems, but I guess my sarcastic comment to this is how much worse. Is people's parking going to get if they have to back into a space like it's gonna be bad it's just i mean we think people can't pull in forward wait until you have to see him start backing into spots and stay in between the lines the nice thing is in.

Derek: A.I. programmed into the self-driving cars, like courtesy? Is that going to have to be in there?

John: That gets into a whole long discussion about programming because… Now it's another show topic. Well, because you get into, does the car kill you or does it kill the pedestrian in cases? You know, the car has to make that decision. You know, does the car save itself or does it, you know, save something else? It's, it's really a very moral conversation.

Derek: Again, another show topic.

John: There's two others on the list. I'll skip one of them. I'll delete that one. This one's fun. It'll probably tie into last week's episode. But working the zipper. People need to learn to do this. It really speeds things up. And I think they are. I've seen it more and more often working. where if you're the best example is you're on an interstate highway and there's a construction zone coming up and it says you know left lane closed in a mile and people start getting over at a mile and then as you get to left lane closed you know 2,000 feet left lane closed a thousand feet people start right in that center line so nobody can go past them because they've been in this lane for over a mile going really slow and people are zipping past them and ducking in at the end. Well, that's the way it's supposed to be. You need to utilize both those lanes right up to maybe that 1,500 foot mark. And then if you allow these people, if you let them merge just like teeth on a zipper, traffic stays flowing. But the way it is now, Somebody doesn't want to let you over, so you're in that left lane doing what you're supposed to. And then you've got to come to a stop, and the people behind you might have to come to a stop. And then other people, then you've got to wait for somebody to let you in. And when that person lets you in, you've got to accelerate from a dead stop, which then slows down the lane, the lane that you're merging into. The math behind it makes so much sense in that just if you both, if you proceed to it at the 50 miles an hour, you leave a little bit of space, people are going to merge. And if people would stay utilizing both lanes, It's not going to be that, Oh, the guy in left lane got a mile ahead of me or whatever, because you're going to be in the same spot. You know, the guy sitting next to you at 70 miles an hour, three miles away from the construction zone is going to be the same guy that's virtually next to you when you get to the zipper and you start to merge in right at that construction zone. So nobody's getting farther ahead. Nobody. You know, it's just one car alternate, one car alternate. And it would make interstate travel so much easier. But do you support the zipper, Derek, or?

Derek: Yeah, yes. Working the zipper. And it's not just in construction zones either. Let's let's take it back to the parking lot situation. And you're at some major event, right? Either a concert, a sporting event, the fair. uh anything right some you know black friday shopping everybody is out at that event doing something right there's there's a mass of people in that parking area and especially if it's a concert you know some event sporting event that has a hard end where everybody then packs up and leaves That's another place where you've got to work the zipper. Like you have just got to get in line. And as traffic flows one car and then the zipper, and then just alternate those positions and everything clears out faster than somebody, you know, everybody just, well, I'm, I got my spot. I'm just going to keep tight to the car in front of me and not let anybody in that just backs everything else up. If you work the zipper, is it going to take you a few more moments to get out? Yes, but in as being courteous and for the whole of the people at that event and in that trying to leave that situation, it's better. It's just courteous and it's better for everyone. And I think that's what it comes down to is, you know, the old joke anymore. It seems everybody is only about themselves, even in driving and everything we do in this life. You know, it's I hear people say it all the time. We see you get you get cut off in traffic or you're somebody doesn't know how to work a four way stop and they go, you know, oh, it's the old you first, but after me.

John: I was going to say it's really not a joke. That's just the way the world has become that.

Derek: Well, but it's it's it's the joke that's made when somebody does it right in the car you're in.

John: I'm more important than you, so just remember, you're no driving gloves. Hosts always have the right away. And I threw one more on to here because it kind of goes with the zipper, but it's merging into traffic when you're coming off of an exit ramp. Yes, you kind of have to use the zipper method or But the key is, remember, when you're coming down an exit ramp, entering an interstate, that's called an acceleration lane. That isn't drive 12 miles an hour, get into traffic and then accelerate. The objective of that lane is so that when you get to the bottom, you are at interstate speeds or you're at the speed that that road's supposed to be traveled and you can safely enter. You driving down it at half the speed limit and then getting into traffic doesn't help a single person behind you and creates an even more dangerous situation for them. A lot of times it creates a dangerous situation for you because the guy behind you will end up getting, you know, he'll be at speed, you know, he'll see what you're doing, he'll hang back, he'll do the slingshot NASCAR move, get to speed, duck out, and then you're forced to come to a stop and then try to reenter. Everybody needs to remember that entrance ramps to an interstate or to a roadway are acceleration lanes. On the flip side, exit ramps from an interstate normally have a deceleration lane. And you're not supposed to touch. Go back to my driver's ed. My driver's ed instructor would knock you if you touched the brakes on an interstate other than in an emergency panic situation. If you were exiting, you did not touch the brakes until you were merging into that exit ramp. And where I learned to drive was Peoria, Illinois. And in Peoria, Illinois, 40 years ago when I was doing this, They had what was the most congested section of interstate in the country. They had something like 18 exit ramps within a two and a half mile range. And right now they will not allow more than one interchange per mile. So they've actually reworked the area in Peoria. But you literally had exit ramps and entrance ramps and exit ramps on top of each other. And you learned to merge. You had no choice or you were going to die. I think it was one of the best learning experiences I ever had. And it's really hard to explain. It's really hard to even show on video unless you were there doing it. And it's great to see that they have improved it a lot. It's made accessing certain businesses and that almost impossible. And some of those businesses have left because of it. But again, merging onto traffic. Remember, exit ramps are deceleration lanes and entrance ramps are acceleration lanes. And the yellow signs that say 25 miles an hour or 35 miles an hour are advisories. You do not have to go that fast. It's an advisory for safely navigating corners and stuff. I'm not saying ignore them, adhere to them kind of, but remember, you don't have to be at that speed. You can be a little bit faster if you need to. There's a lot of safety built into those signs.

Derek: And the other thing to remember is when you're on the roadway, the freeway, the highway, whatever you're on, where one of those on ramps, or well, typically just for the on ramps. For the person coming down that ramp and coming on in the acceleration lane, that is what it's for as John said. For the person in the slow lane of which that on ramp acceleration lane is merging into, You are not supposed to change your speed. You are not supposed to slow down or speed up for that car that is coming in to merge because it's their job to reach the speed they need to be at to safely merge. But it is also a common courtesy if able to move out of that lane into the lane, the left lane next to you, so that person can merge easier. That is one of the biggest things I see go wrong. Somebody is not coming down the acceleration lane on ramp lane at the right speed, typically too slow. So instead of the person in the right hand lane that that on ramp is merging into keeping their speed, which would put them in front of the car, they slow down to allow that person to get in. and that causes absolute chaos.

John: Your courtesy, this goes right back to the beginning where I said sometimes your courtesy breaks the law for the good, this is your courtesy breaking the law for the bad. You should always try to move over a lane, but that lane's yours, you're not going to give it up. And I don't understand the people that do the courtesy move and slow down to let the traffic merge in front of them. Why is that the only place in any roadway that will let somebody get in front of us? Normally, it's you accelerate so that you're in front of them. Stick to that rule. You know, Derek's right. You're not supposed to change speeds because it allows the guy entering the roadway to know what speed he or she should be entering. But why are we slowing down and even coming to stops to let cars merging onto the interstate merge in front of us? It's the only place we let somebody get in front of us. I don't understand that. There's a lot more of these to be courteous about. We tried not to make it too much of a bitch show. Obviously we bitched and we expressed our opinions, but it's no driving gloves. It's the gloves off approach to driving. You can listen to many more episodes at www.nodrivinggloves.com. You can check out our Christmas lists, or really not our Christmas lists, but some pretty good automotive suggestions for the person on your Christmas list at No Driving Gloves. There's a little shop tab up there. Helps us out a little bit and makes buying for that car person in your life easier. But Derek, do we have anything else to close out on or try to keep these shows tight?

Derek: I don't want to, you know, cause a, uh, you know, one of those hotbed topics or something, but my last thing is just, can we be courteous to our emergency service folks that are out there? And remember, if law enforcement is on the side of the road with their lights on, EMS, fire, wrecker services, guys, seriously, wrecker services are picking up a car, move over a lane, give them room, be courteous. Too many, too many accidents when those vehicles are out there trying to help people use some courtesy.

John: Yeah, I still see the accidents, but I see a lot more observation, especially since they point out it's the law now and people are willing to risk crashing to get out of, to get into that left lane to get away from the emergency services and give them room. And I'll be honest, I've even seen more people getting over for abandoned cars than that on the side of the road on the chance that somebody is still around them. If you've got, you know, always give room. If you've got the chance, give some room. You'll live to another day to get there. Uh, we've all had friends pass away in traffic accidents because of stupid drivers and stupid things happening. And we've all had friends pass away or acquaintances pass away because they were the stupid person. And we never want to admit it, but there's usually, you know, two apples there. Either the stupid person who causes it or the unfortunate person who gets hit by the stupid person. But with that, I think we're closing up. Are we, Derek?

Derek: I believe so. It's been a good show. Thanks for listening.

John: Okay. Just remember everybody, now you can get off your ass and go burn some gas. John out.

Announcer: This show was a part of the No Driving Gloves Network, produced and edited by John Viviani of Magic City Podcasts, with voice work by Gary Gungor. So until the next exit.