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Why you should be selling your products on TikTok - with Anna Frapwell
Episode 12916th September 2022 • Bring Your Product Idea to Life • Vicki Weinberg
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Today’s podcast is one I have today's episode is one I've been wanting to record for a while, because today we are talking about TikTok and specifically how to sell your products on TikTok. So I've been looking around for a while for an expert that could talk to us about this.

Enter Anna Frapwell.  Anna is the founder of Neon Digital Clicks a digital agency supporting e-commerce baby, kids and family brands to increase sales through a range of online marketing tactics. She has over 20 years experience in marketing and PR working for some pretty big agencies and retail brands... we're talking Revlon, Bravissimo, Baylis & Harding, Britax and global ads agency McCann Eriskson. The Neon team is passionate about helping clients to create a thriving ecosystem through paid social, Google and email marketing where their brands can grow and flourish! 

We talk about why you might want to sell your products on TikTok, and how to go about it. It is a really eye-opening conversation, and a great way to explore a potential new marketing and sales avenue for your products business.

Listen in to hear Anna share:

  • An introduction to herself and her business (01:40)
  • An introduction to TikTok (02:36)
  • The different lengths of video you can use (04:55)
  • How to shop on TikTok (06:50)
  • The sort of content to produce (07:56)
  • The TikTok demographic (11:04)
  • Whether people come on TikTok to buy (they do!)(12:57)
  • Reasons to give TikTok a try (15:07)
  • Getting started on TikTok (18:34)
  • Content ideas for Product Based Business TikTok videos (22:41)
  • How engagement works on TikTok (25:08)
  • TikTok ads (27:19)
  • Her number one piece of advice for people getting started on TikTok (34:27)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Neon Digital Clicks Website

Neon Digital Clicks TikTok

Neon Digital Clicks Facebook

Neon Digital Clicks Instagram

Neon Digital Clicks Twitter

Anna Frapwell LinkedIn

UK Influencer Opportunities Facebook Group

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Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas To Life podcast, practical advice,

Speaker:

and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products.

Speaker:

Here's your host Vicki Weinberg.

Vicki Weinberg:

Hello.

Vicki Weinberg:

So today's episode is one I've been wanting to record for a

Vicki Weinberg:

while, because today we are talking about TikTok and specifically how

Vicki Weinberg:

to sell your products on TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I've been looking around for a while for an expert that

Vicki Weinberg:

could talk to us about this.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I was put in touch with Anna Frapwell.

Vicki Weinberg:

Well, Anna is the founder of Neon Digital Clicks, a digital agency

Vicki Weinberg:

supporting eCommerce, baby, kids and family brands to increase sales for

Vicki Weinberg:

a range of online marketing tactics.

Vicki Weinberg:

She has over 20 years experience in marketing and PR, working for some

Vicki Weinberg:

pretty big agencies and retail brands.

Vicki Weinberg:

So we're talking brands like Revlon, Bravisimo, Baylis and Harding, um so

Vicki Weinberg:

brands you have definitely heard of.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, Anna and her team are passionate about helping clients create a

Vicki Weinberg:

thriving ecosystem through paid social Google, and E an email marketing where

Vicki Weinberg:

their brands can grow and flourish.

Vicki Weinberg:

So we had a really great conversation today, all about TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

We spoke about why you might want your products to be on TikTok,

Vicki Weinberg:

and once they are there, what you can do to promote and sell them.

Vicki Weinberg:

So if you have even considered having your, selling your products on TikTok

Vicki Weinberg:

and even if you haven't, I would say this one is essential listening.

Vicki Weinberg:

So as always, I hope you enjoy, and I'd now love to introduce you to Anna.

Vicki Weinberg:

So hi, Anna.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you for being here.

Anna Frapwell:

Hello.

Anna Frapwell:

Nice to meet you.

Vicki Weinberg:

Can we start by you giving a quick introduction to

Vicki Weinberg:

yourself, your business and what you do?

Anna Frapwell:

Sure.

Anna Frapwell:

So, uh, my name's Anna, as you said, um, and I head up, uh, Neon Digital Clicks.

Anna Frapwell:

I'm the owner and founder, we're a digital marketing agency and we

Anna Frapwell:

focus predominantly on paid social.

Anna Frapwell:

So anything to do with meta.

Anna Frapwell:

So Facebook, Instagram, but also TikTok as well as Google adds

Anna Frapwell:

and Klaviyo email marketing.

Anna Frapwell:

And we work predominantly with eCommerce brands helping them to scale.

Anna Frapwell:

So if someone's finding that their sales are plateauing then we will

Anna Frapwell:

support them with scaling those.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I've invited you on here today to talk about TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, because I hear a lot about people needing to get on there,

Vicki Weinberg:

particularly eCommerce businesses and I know absolutely nothing about it.

Vicki Weinberg:

So if you don't mind, we are going to start right at the beginning.

Vicki Weinberg:

And can you just give us a quick introduction to TikTok, what it is?

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

What would, what, what it is let's start there.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

So, um, gosh, that's a really difficult question to answer really,

Anna Frapwell:

because it's, it's so many things I suppose, but it's, um, a, it's an app

Anna Frapwell:

that's one of the fastest growing.

Anna Frapwell:

Outside of Facebook.

Anna Frapwell:

So social media apps outside of Facebook, um, it has really kind of grown

Anna Frapwell:

rapidly in the last couple of years.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and particularly during lockdown, it kind of took hold

Anna Frapwell:

and kind of went a bit crazy.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, it's a video app, so everything on there is video based.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, it's a started off, I suppose, with a much younger audience, but

Anna Frapwell:

actually interestingly enough, over the last I'd say year, the 40 plus

Anna Frapwell:

audience has become the fastest growing audience on the platform.

Anna Frapwell:

So I think that many people are afraid of TikTok and are maybe avoiding

Anna Frapwell:

TikTok because of the preconception that actually all that's on.

Anna Frapwell:

There is young people, 20 something doing really cool dances or lip

Anna Frapwell:

syncing to things, but that's really not the case anymore.

Anna Frapwell:

And actually it has changed so much the algorithm on TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

Pretty amazing.

Anna Frapwell:

It's um, everyone, so everyone who has a TikTok account will have a for you page.

Anna Frapwell:

Uh, so that's your FYP page.

Anna Frapwell:

And on that FYP page, it will pull in content from people that

Anna Frapwell:

you aren't necessarily following.

Anna Frapwell:

So as it works a little bit like reels are now in that you will see within

Anna Frapwell:

your feed on Instagram reels that are, um, the algorithm has worked out.

Anna Frapwell:

What kind of reels you might be more likely to interact with.

Anna Frapwell:

So that gets fed into your Instagram feed.

Anna Frapwell:

Well, the same thing happens with TikTok, but it's kind of the core focus is your,

Anna Frapwell:

for your, for you page is populated with all the people that you follow and you've

Anna Frapwell:

interacted with, but also it's filled with other, um, creators that you may also

Anna Frapwell:

be interested in finding out more from.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, so it's a really, um, targeted feed, um, that it, and because of that

Anna Frapwell:

reason, it's no surprise that people get really drawn into it and really kind

Anna Frapwell:

of engrossed in what's going on because you're constantly, constantly being

Anna Frapwell:

served content that is relevant to you.

Anna Frapwell:

And that you want to see more of.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, we, I mentioned to you earlier.

Vicki Weinberg:

I haven't even downloaded TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

But I do know from listening to other people that it can be quite addictive.

Vicki Weinberg:

I've certainly heard of people talking about spending much longer than they

Vicki Weinberg:

intend just watching video after video.

Vicki Weinberg:

And am Iright in thinking they are short form videos as well.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, they are short form videos, but they have

Anna Frapwell:

increased the length of the videos.

Anna Frapwell:

So originally it was like really short snippets.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, but now you can record much longer videos.

Anna Frapwell:

However, um, we are still finding ourselves certainly from an ad's

Anna Frapwell:

perspective that it's the shorter form videos that the higher performing videos.

Anna Frapwell:

You've got to kind of think of your, um, audience on TikTok as having

Anna Frapwell:

quite, uh, it's such a fast paced platform that you kind of got to

Anna Frapwell:

think about how much can you get across in quite a short space of time.

Anna Frapwell:

Because the attention span isn't quite as long as it may be on other platforms.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, so get everything you need to get across in a 15 second 30

Anna Frapwell:

second video, although there is the option to record longer videos.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I feel, it probably goes the same for things like reels as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

I know that myself, I'm much more likely to watch something if it's under 30

Vicki Weinberg:

and I know like 30 seconds is such a short, but if I look at something and

Vicki Weinberg:

its a minute and I probably would be less likely to play it if I'm honest.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

Definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

And I think, you know, it's just.

Anna Frapwell:

It's what's happened hasn't it to culture.

Anna Frapwell:

We, we expect everything to happen so quick, so fast, even, you know, going

Anna Frapwell:

back to eCommerce businesses, you know, one of the big things that I talk to

Anna Frapwell:

clients about or leads about is, you know, how quick is it to get from seeing

Anna Frapwell:

a product you want, to checking out?

Anna Frapwell:

Because actually the more you can shorten that length of time, the better, um, and

Anna Frapwell:

it's kind of the same across most things.

Anna Frapwell:

When it comes to marketing, it's, you know, get those messages across,

Anna Frapwell:

get that people to take those actions as quickly as possible.

Vicki Weinberg:

So we might cover this later on, but you've just sparked

Vicki Weinberg:

the question if you don't mind, Anna.

Vicki Weinberg:

Which is, can you shop on TikTok?

Anna Frapwell:

Yes, you can.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Anna Frapwell:

So there's a TikTok shop, um, and you can get

Anna Frapwell:

registered on the TikTok shop so you can use the TikTok shop.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, you can also integrate, as you would do with Facebook and Instagram, you can

Anna Frapwell:

integrate your website, um, into your page so people can click through and

Anna Frapwell:

go straight to your website as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, wow.

Vicki Weinberg:

I had no idea.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I can definitely see we'll talk a bit later about opportunities, but I, yeah,

Vicki Weinberg:

I can see actually, um, there are more opportunities than I thought there would

Vicki Weinberg:

be with a short form video platform.

Anna Frapwell:

Definitely.

Vicki Weinberg:

Are these quite new features?

Vicki Weinberg:

Relative?

Anna Frapwell:

Uh, well, I mean, the platform's pretty, pretty new, I

Anna Frapwell:

suppose, but, um, yeah, I mean, not particularly, um, you've been able to

Anna Frapwell:

obviously advertise on TikTok for quite some time, so that integration's been

Anna Frapwell:

there for quite some time as well.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, so no, not particularly new, I would say.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

So what, let's talk a bit, a little bit about, um, content.

Vicki Weinberg:

What kind of content is good?

Vicki Weinberg:

You've mentioned shorter form videos rather than longer form.

Vicki Weinberg:

What other kind of content is, is good for TikTok?

Anna Frapwell:

So.

Anna Frapwell:

In terms of content, and this goes across organic content and also

Anna Frapwell:

any ads that are created as well.

Anna Frapwell:

It's native content.

Anna Frapwell:

So it's a very native platform.

Anna Frapwell:

And I think this is one of the things that you can kind of reassure yourself with.

Anna Frapwell:

If you're thinking about dipping your toe in the waters of.

Anna Frapwell:

You don't need to put the pressure on that people sometimes do when

Anna Frapwell:

it comes to a perfectly curated Instagram feed and everything's got

Anna Frapwell:

to look great and it's got a kind of, the aesthetic is quite important.

Anna Frapwell:

Although there's an argument to say that that isn't quite as important

Anna Frapwell:

these days on Instagram, but with TikTok actually, just get out there

Anna Frapwell:

and do it because it's the native content that works really, really well.

Anna Frapwell:

It's the, the stuff that hasn't been thought about quite so much,

Anna Frapwell:

that isn't quite so polished.

Anna Frapwell:

It's that kind of grabbing your phone, doing a quick TikTok, whether

Anna Frapwell:

that's talking directly to a camera to kind of impart some knowledge or

Anna Frapwell:

just update someone on what's going on in your business during your

Anna Frapwell:

working day, those kind of things.

Anna Frapwell:

Brilliant.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, It's really important that kind of, um, you use kind of

Anna Frapwell:

news generated content as well.

Anna Frapwell:

This is more so with ads.

Anna Frapwell:

So anything that is taking a customer's point of view, and maybe they're showing

Anna Frapwell:

an unboxing experience if they bought a product or, um, they are showing

Anna Frapwell:

the features and benefits or three reasons why they love this product.

Anna Frapwell:

It's those kind of things that work really, really well.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, the other thing that works, um, particularly well is, um, like I say,

Anna Frapwell:

the three reasons why, so whether that's from a user actually doing a video about

Anna Frapwell:

three reasons why this product is great.

Anna Frapwell:

Three reasons why this service is great.

Anna Frapwell:

You know, there's no reason why the business owner can't do those as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

And so the videos they don't need to be sort of edited as you might do

Vicki Weinberg:

for an Instagram reel, for example?

Anna Frapwell:

No, no, not at all.

Anna Frapwell:

I think there can be, and there are loads of creators that actually

Anna Frapwell:

specialize in really cool, like transition videos or really cool lip

Anna Frapwell:

syncing videos or amazing dancers.

Anna Frapwell:

But leave that to the creators if that's not your thing.

Anna Frapwell:

Don't try and make it your thing because that's when you start

Anna Frapwell:

going, oh, I can't do TikTok because actually everyone can do TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

It's um, those kind of things.

Anna Frapwell:

If that's not what you enjoy doing, it's not what you're good at doing.

Anna Frapwell:

Don't do it.

Anna Frapwell:

Find what you are, you can do.

Anna Frapwell:

And treat it a little bit like Instagram stories, you know, on an Instagram

Anna Frapwell:

story, you wouldn't think it about it as much as you would when you were

Anna Frapwell:

creating a reel, it's about grabbing a camera, showing someone part of your day.

Anna Frapwell:

It's about, um, talking about what's going on in the moment.

Anna Frapwell:

It's about imparting something, you know, some knowledge, something that's

Anna Frapwell:

just happened to you that you kind of go, oh God, I didn't didn't realize that

Anna Frapwell:

was, that was going to be the result of this action or those kind of things.

Vicki Weinberg:

Perfect.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And thank you for making the link with Instagram stories.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because that was a, that was coming up in my mind.

Vicki Weinberg:

Was it similar to stories?

Vicki Weinberg:

So that's how it feels to me, quite informal and yeah, doesn't have to

Vicki Weinberg:

be particularly polished perhaps.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, yeah, that's interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

And so what kind of people are on TikTok?

Vicki Weinberg:

Because you mentioned earlier that over forties is the

Vicki Weinberg:

fastest growing demographic.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

So if we look, take TikTok overall, what's the demographic like, and is it, um, Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

So wider question.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

So I mean, it is a really broad dynamic.

Anna Frapwell:

Definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, it's TikTok is the first app in the world that's not owned by Facebook

Anna Frapwell:

to have over, um, 3 billion downloads.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, it's kind of an, the explosive growth of TikTok will overtake

Anna Frapwell:

Facebook in less than two years.

Anna Frapwell:

And it will.

Anna Frapwell:

The number one platform for paid traffic.

Anna Frapwell:

It, you know, it's, it's heading that way.

Anna Frapwell:

Uh, TikTok are investing so much money into improving the algorithms,

Anna Frapwell:

improving the services so that advertisers will flock there.

Anna Frapwell:

And particularly if you are thinking about dipping your toe in the water of,

Anna Frapwell:

um, TikTok, whether that's organically or through paid, think about doing

Anna Frapwell:

it in quarter three because quarter four is obviously going to be huge

Anna Frapwell:

for, for generating those sales.

Anna Frapwell:

But in terms of kind of who on TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

I'd say it's pretty much everyone.

Anna Frapwell:

You will, whatever your niche, you will find an audience for your niche.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, I can just pull up some stats for you.

Anna Frapwell:

I thought I had that page loaded so you might have to.

Vicki Weinberg:

No, don't worry at all.

Vicki Weinberg:

And so we mentioned sounds like everyone, everyone apart from me is on.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, but do you have any data or do you know what people are there for?

Vicki Weinberg:

And I guess the big question here, because we're talking about products

Vicki Weinberg:

businesses, is, are people there to shop?

Vicki Weinberg:

I know they can shop mm-hmm um, but is, do people shop on, on TikTok?

Vicki Weinberg:

Do people come to TikTok looking for things to buy?

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

So I'd say largely people are there for entertainment, it's

Anna Frapwell:

a highly entertaining platform.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and it's kind of, that's where this whole kind of getting sucked in and

Anna Frapwell:

getting engrossed is because you kind of, the entertainment factor is there,

Anna Frapwell:

but then also you're being served content that is completely relevant to you.

Anna Frapwell:

What you want to see, what you're interested in, what you engage, but

Anna Frapwell:

yes, there is a large proportion of people that are there to shop as well.

Anna Frapwell:

There is a hashtag that is TikTok made me buy it.

Anna Frapwell:

And that is basically full of people doing unboxing videos, people showing what

Anna Frapwell:

they've purchased and what they've seen on a TikTok that they've then gone on to buy.

Anna Frapwell:

So it's a massive, massive part of what TikTok is all about, is that kind of

Anna Frapwell:

introducing people to brands, introducing people, to products, introducing

Anna Frapwell:

people to, um, interesting things that they may not have seen before.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, creating trends around products, creating communities around products,

Anna Frapwell:

you know, all of those kind of things are definitely where you kind of would go to

Anna Frapwell:

TikTok or and the more you get involved in that, the more you kind of want to

Anna Frapwell:

see more of that, if that makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, it does.

Vicki Weinberg:

And that really does make sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I mean, I know that if I come off, across a small brand I've

Vicki Weinberg:

never heard of before, I'm looking at buying something, one of the

Vicki Weinberg:

first things I do is go to Instagram.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because most places are having Instagram.

Vicki Weinberg:

And that was a platform I'm very comfortable with just to kind of look

Vicki Weinberg:

at what they post and get an idea of them and see if customers have

Vicki Weinberg:

tagged photos and things like that.

Vicki Weinberg:

So it sounds like it's very similar on TikTok in that if there's a

Vicki Weinberg:

brand you're interested in, you could find out a whole load about

Vicki Weinberg:

them by looking at their content.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I guess, can you also see content that people post about a brand?

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

So hashtags are searchable as they would be on, um, Instagram.

Anna Frapwell:

So you can, you know, if you tap, if you tapped in a brand's name

Anna Frapwell:

into the search function by you, you know, if there's a someone's

Anna Frapwell:

recorded something about particular products, it's highly likely that they

Anna Frapwell:

have hashtagged that brand as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

So it sounds like that's one good reason that product businesses might want to

Vicki Weinberg:

consider being on TikTok mm-hmm . Are there any other reasons that people

Vicki Weinberg:

might want to consider giving it a try?

Anna Frapwell:

I think that there's a lot of fatigue around Instagram.

Anna Frapwell:

And I think that a lot of people felt, feel like, you know, in, in the,

Anna Frapwell:

certainly in the small business world, in the independent business world,

Anna Frapwell:

that there, you know, there was this massive boom on Instagram, you could

Anna Frapwell:

do a lot organically with Instagram and actually, is that happening anymore?

Anna Frapwell:

Is the engagement there anymore?

Anna Frapwell:

TikTok is kind of where I would, I would never say no Instagram,

Anna Frapwell:

by the way, you know, I think that every platform has its purpose.

Anna Frapwell:

And I think that when you, you build on different platforms and you kind of

Anna Frapwell:

create a really good foundation to your business, utilizing all the elements that

Anna Frapwell:

each different platform has to offer, like, I would never say turn your back

Anna Frapwell:

on Facebook, I would never say turn your back on Instagram, but actually when you

Anna Frapwell:

add TikTok in, there is another method for driving traffic to your business.

Anna Frapwell:

For driving awareness to your business, for driving that kind of

Anna Frapwell:

additional layer of endorsement.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, kind of those behind the scene things that are also important for

Anna Frapwell:

a small business and it's, it is at the moment, a very, relatively easy

Anna Frapwell:

place to see growth and engagement.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think you're right in that all of the channels you mentioned have

Vicki Weinberg:

a place and it's kind of working out what works for you, because I think

Vicki Weinberg:

all of us have channels that work better and those where, that don't.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, and it certainly sounds worth giving it a try.

Vicki Weinberg:

In fact, by someone that I follow on Instagram, um, who was a podcast guest a

Vicki Weinberg:

while ago, she started doing TikTok not very long ago and saw, like, I think one

Vicki Weinberg:

of her TikToks went viral and she's been on there for like a couple literally days.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so it definitely sounds like there isn't a downside to trying, um.

Anna Frapwell:

No.

Vicki Weinberg:

If it doesn't work and you don't enjoy it then I guess you just stop.

Anna Frapwell:

And I think the other thing is it's a bit like in it's a

Anna Frapwell:

bit like reels in that reels can, you know, you could create a real, not get

Anna Frapwell:

a lot of engagement and then like two months later find this real, all of a

Anna Frapwell:

sudden it's getting loads of engagement.

Anna Frapwell:

TikTok is the same.

Anna Frapwell:

It's, you know, you can put out content, it may not immediately get any reaction,

Anna Frapwell:

but then all of a sudden, there might be a flurry because something

Anna Frapwell:

has resonated with someone and then it's getting fed into for your, for

Anna Frapwell:

you pages and it's kind of growing.

Anna Frapwell:

So it's not like you create something, it didn't work and you can go, oh, okay.

Anna Frapwell:

It didn't work kind of onto the next thing.

Anna Frapwell:

It always has that potential to kind of grow and flourish at some point.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

So, yeah, I didn't really think about that because I guess on

Vicki Weinberg:

Instagram, once you, with a post, I'm talking about an image post.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Once you posted it, a day, well, probably not even a day, like hours later, I

Vicki Weinberg:

feel like if, if you don't get that many likes and comments in the first couple

Vicki Weinberg:

of hours, you're probably not going to.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

There's very few people that are going to scroll down

Vicki Weinberg:

your feed to look at what you were talking about a couple of weeks ago.

Vicki Weinberg:

So that's really interesting that with TikTok things do still pop up.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

No, it's brilliant.

Anna Frapwell:

And it's, um, you know, I found it myself that, you know, if I, I there's

Anna Frapwell:

a TikTok that I posted quite a while ago and I was looking back at some

Anna Frapwell:

stats and actually that one had all of a sudden gone from a couple of

Anna Frapwell:

hundred kind of views to thousands.

Anna Frapwell:

And it was just, yeah, it's crazy how that can happen about in the background really.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

You have to make sure you give us the link for your TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

Yes I will do.

Vicki Weinberg:

So how easy is it to get started on TikTok?

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, is it just the case of setting up an account and...?

Anna Frapwell:

It's super easy.

Anna Frapwell:

It's really intuitive.

Anna Frapwell:

It's kind of download the app, get yourself going by following the prompts.

Anna Frapwell:

Get yourself set up and then just go for it and also just

Anna Frapwell:

kind of don't overthink it.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and the thing with TikTok, because it's so fast paced, this is the only,

Anna Frapwell:

I suppose, drawback as a business owner is that you do have to, um, produce

Anna Frapwell:

if you're going to really go for it.

Anna Frapwell:

You have to kind of commit to, to doing a TikTok at least once a day.

Anna Frapwell:

So it can feel like a lot of content, but if, actually, if you shift that

Anna Frapwell:

in your mind and think about it in terms of doing stories, rather than

Anna Frapwell:

doing the kind of reels that we, sorry.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

The reels that take time to kind of plan out and, and think about, you can

Anna Frapwell:

actually can kind of quite quickly see how you could regularly do a TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

Especially if, I guess it's just you talking to camera and I guess you

Vicki Weinberg:

could intersperse those with more produced ones, if you wanted to.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, because am I right in thinking that you can create quite nice

Vicki Weinberg:

videos or canva or whatever, and then yeah upload them to TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

You can do that, but then there is so much within TikTok

Anna Frapwell:

itself that you can make use of.

Anna Frapwell:

There are so many functions and things like that, that you can use that actually

Anna Frapwell:

you can, within the platform itself, create some pretty amazing things anyway.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, I had no, actually this is ringing a bell because, um,

Vicki Weinberg:

yeah, obviously I don't know much about this as you can tell, but I do

Vicki Weinberg:

kind of vaguely remember people would go to TikTok to create reels that

Vicki Weinberg:

then they would upload to Instagram.

Vicki Weinberg:

That was definitely a thing wasn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, it definitely definitely was.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, so it was a thing.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and it's because actually, if you create a reel and you post it

Anna Frapwell:

to TikTok, it's it doesn't work.

Anna Frapwell:

But if you do it the other way around, it does work, but you won't get the kind

Anna Frapwell:

of level of engagement that you kind of would, if you did it the other way around.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

So the, so the best way to create videos, sounds like, to do it within

Vicki Weinberg:

the app itself rather than uploading.

Anna Frapwell:

I would.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean, there are people that do it other ways, but I just,

Anna Frapwell:

I think there's so much there.

Anna Frapwell:

Why make it harder for yourself by going somewhere else, creating it

Anna Frapwell:

somewhere else, bringing it into TikTok, actually, do it natively within platform.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's a really good tip.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I'm guessing that's a bit quicker as well than, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Any other way.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, okay, so ideally I guess you want to be, if, if you can, doing a TikTok

Vicki Weinberg:

a day, when you get started mm-hmm.

Vicki Weinberg:

If, if someone's going, oh my gosh, I just can't do that.

Vicki Weinberg:

Please don't make me do one a day.

Vicki Weinberg:

What would you say the minimum is to kind of build up?

Vicki Weinberg:

Even, I mean, taking into account, you're obviously going to grow much

Vicki Weinberg:

slower if you're doing it less.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean, well, that's kind of down to personal preference, really.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean, you know, you want to be, you do want to be doing it every day.

Anna Frapwell:

It really is one of those things that you kind of have to go 'right, I'm

Anna Frapwell:

going to, I'm going to commit to it.

Anna Frapwell:

But like you say, if you're doing it just to dip your toe in the

Anna Frapwell:

water and practice and have fun, like that's the best way to start.

Anna Frapwell:

And if it means that you're doing three a week, you're doing

Anna Frapwell:

three a week and that's fine.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, I would kind of tips for how to get started.

Anna Frapwell:

I would kind of follow, um, influences that are relevant to your business niche.

Anna Frapwell:

I would follow other businesses that are already on TikTok

Anna Frapwell:

that are similar to yourself.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, I would just spend time on the app and just really kind of fully immerse yourself

Anna Frapwell:

in the app because it's not until you do that, that you kind of start to understand

Anna Frapwell:

some of the kind of way things work and the nuances and what other people do.

Anna Frapwell:

And a lot of is repetition, a lot of it is other people copying what other people

Anna Frapwell:

have done and putting their spin on it.

Anna Frapwell:

So you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Anna Frapwell:

It's not about coming up with something really cool and new, it's about

Anna Frapwell:

actually seeing things and working out how you could take those and

Anna Frapwell:

utilize them within your business.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

And we have a touch on this slightly, but what would be good?

Vicki Weinberg:

Do you have any just quick ideas for if someone's going 'okay, I'm going to

Vicki Weinberg:

listen to this podcast and I'm going to get on, I'm going to get started'.

Vicki Weinberg:

Do you have a few, like really quick ideas for product businesses

Vicki Weinberg:

of the kind of videos they could just go away and get started.

Anna Frapwell:

Definitely.

Anna Frapwell:

So kind of things like how you got started.

Anna Frapwell:

So do a TikTok on, you know, how the business started a bit of background

Anna Frapwell:

about who you are, what you're all about, why you've created your business.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, some, those three reasons why, um, and unboxing videos.

Anna Frapwell:

So, you know, actually what's the experience when your

Anna Frapwell:

product lands with someone.

Anna Frapwell:

And you can even like take it, so for example, we work with

Anna Frapwell:

quite a few subscription boxes.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and one of the videos that we often encourage them to do is, you

Anna Frapwell:

know, box arriving at door, going through letter box landing on the door

Anna Frapwell:

mat, someone picking it up, opening it, and kind of that enjoyment of

Anna Frapwell:

like revealing the goodies inside.

Anna Frapwell:

So that kind of experiential video.

Anna Frapwell:

Um.

Anna Frapwell:

You can link up with, um, creators, get creators to create content for you.

Anna Frapwell:

There's a brilliant Facebook group, um, called UK influencers.

Anna Frapwell:

And it's kind of like almost a marketplace where you can post your

Anna Frapwell:

business, your product and you can say, you know, we're looking for people

Anna Frapwell:

that can create TikToks, um, for our business in exchange for free product.

Anna Frapwell:

Or if you are prepared to pay, then you know, this I'll pay

Anna Frapwell:

50 pound per TikTok, whatever.

Anna Frapwell:

So that's another place that you could utilize to get some TikToks made for you.

Anna Frapwell:

Um.

Anna Frapwell:

Which its a really, really great way of, of growing quite quickly as well.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, yeah, and I think that use generated content kind, what

Anna Frapwell:

our customers say about us.

Anna Frapwell:

So you can kind, you could almost like put some text on the screen of kind

Anna Frapwell:

of five star reviews that you've had, things like that, that just either

Anna Frapwell:

give a little bit more background into your business and why you started and

Anna Frapwell:

kind of that whole behind the scenes take you on a journey of your day.

Anna Frapwell:

You know.

Anna Frapwell:

What do you do from the moment you walk in the office to the moment you leave, um,

Anna Frapwell:

and you know, three reasons why you should do this, why you should buy from us.

Anna Frapwell:

They're the kind of things that work really well.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And definitely the sense I'm getting is you probably can't go that far

Vicki Weinberg:

wrong if you just pick up your phone.

Anna Frapwell:

Not really.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean, because what is the worst that is going to happen?

Anna Frapwell:

You won't get any views.

Anna Frapwell:

Nothing, you know, nothing negative is going to happen by, you know,

Anna Frapwell:

creating a TikTok that doesn't end up on lots of you pages.

Anna Frapwell:

It's, it's really not, you know, there is nothing bad that can happen from it.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's good to know.

Vicki Weinberg:

So TikTok, do people, is it a platform where you like

Vicki Weinberg:

and comment or is it or not?

Vicki Weinberg:

You just view?

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

So you like, you comment, you engage.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, if people comment it's very similar to other platforms, they make

Anna Frapwell:

sure you respond to their comments.

Anna Frapwell:

There's other, other functions that you can do, um, as well, where you

Anna Frapwell:

can, someone comments, they may ask a question about your product

Anna Frapwell:

and then you can take that comment, create a TikTok from that comment.

Anna Frapwell:

So you have the comment in the actual showing in the TikTok video, and

Anna Frapwell:

you are responding in video form to that question that you've had.

Anna Frapwell:

So that is brilliant because you are not only engaging with someone,

Anna Frapwell:

but you are creating video.

Anna Frapwell:

And if someone's asked that question, it's like the other people are

Anna Frapwell:

thinking about that question.

Anna Frapwell:

So that's another brilliant thing to do.

Anna Frapwell:

The other thing that I've just thought of, that's also a really great way

Anna Frapwell:

to get, um, involved quite quickly is by using um, the stitch function.

Anna Frapwell:

So a bit like on reels where someone can create a reel and then you can

Anna Frapwell:

kind of stitch your response to that.

Anna Frapwell:

So you have the original reel playing and then your response alongside it.

Anna Frapwell:

You can do that on TikTok as well.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, so, you know, if you find someone, I don't know, talking about maybe a

Anna Frapwell:

problem they've go,t in your product, you know, solves that problem.

Anna Frapwell:

You could have that as a stitched TikTok really nice.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'll be honest.

Vicki Weinberg:

I am getting more, we talk more tempted.

Vicki Weinberg:

I could, this could be next, my afternoon gone now.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I really could.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

Well that is the problem.

Anna Frapwell:

That is the biggest downside.

Anna Frapwell:

As you kind of find yourself, you find yourself going through the phases of

Anna Frapwell:

TikTok, like completely resisting it and saying, I'm not going to go there.

Anna Frapwell:

I'm not going to do it.

Anna Frapwell:

Downloading it, being a bit frightened by the whole thing because you see

Anna Frapwell:

all these hundreds of videos and then all of a sudden, which is, fully

Anna Frapwell:

committed you're in it every day.

Anna Frapwell:

And you can't like not look at it every day.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, I'll have to let you keep you posted on how I, how I do.

Vicki Weinberg:

I also should have said thank you for mentioning that Facebook group as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'll find that in links stuff in the show notes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because that sounds like that could be a really good option for

Vicki Weinberg:

someone who just wants a bit of a boost when they get started.

Anna Frapwell:

Exactly.

Anna Frapwell:

I think it's called UK influencer opportunities.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'll find it.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And speaking of giving a bit of a boost, let's talk a little bit about

Vicki Weinberg:

TikTok ads, because I know that's one of the things you specialize in.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so, well, first of all, um, how soon would you suggest

Vicki Weinberg:

people start looking into ads?

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, should, can you do them from day one or do you need to

Vicki Weinberg:

build a bit of a following first?

Vicki Weinberg:

What tend to work best?

Anna Frapwell:

No.

Anna Frapwell:

Well, that's the beauty of, um, ads particularly is that you don't need

Anna Frapwell:

to have that kind of consistently engaged page in order to start

Anna Frapwell:

running ads, which is something you do need to have on other platforms.

Anna Frapwell:

It would be not great advice to go out there with a Facebook add,

Anna Frapwell:

uh, Facebook ads campaign and a completely empty Facebook page and

Anna Frapwell:

a completely empty Instagram page.

Anna Frapwell:

You have to kind of commit to running the ads and fully getting on board

Anna Frapwell:

with doing the organic side as well.

Anna Frapwell:

So with TikTok, that's not such a worry, obviously it's great to have an organic

Anna Frapwell:

page, but it's not going to impact the performance of your ad campaigns

Anna Frapwell:

as it would do on other platforms.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and it's um, not something that I would suggest going out at when you

Anna Frapwell:

are, and, and running ads when you're just starting, because with all ad

Anna Frapwell:

campaigns, you do need to invest.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and I think it's a bit like, you know, you can run a bath with the tap

Anna Frapwell:

dripping, or you can turn the tap on properly and run the bath properly.

Anna Frapwell:

And that's kind of the difference between just putting a small amount behind, um,

Anna Frapwell:

advertising campaigns and really kind of turning it on and doing it properly

Anna Frapwell:

because a large part of advertising is that whole testing and optimizing.

Anna Frapwell:

If you're not putting enough in to get through testing, it's going to take you a

Anna Frapwell:

very long time to get to the point where you know what's working and what's going

Anna Frapwell:

to create and generate sales for you.

Anna Frapwell:

So I wouldn't say it's something to go out with.

Anna Frapwell:

If you were kind of a new business, just starting, always, always,

Anna Frapwell:

always start with the foundations of your business, get them right.

Anna Frapwell:

And then layer on some advertising on top of that.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And how about, um, if you decided you, you know, you're in the position where

Vicki Weinberg:

you were ready to commit to doing ads on TikTok, mm-hmm, what advice

Vicki Weinberg:

do you have about how to do them?

Anna Frapwell:

So it's very much like, um, doing it organically on TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

So the ads that work are the ones that look native.

Anna Frapwell:

So the ones that don't stand out as an ad, they're very kind of native in content.

Anna Frapwell:

They use a lot of user generator content.

Anna Frapwell:

They use a lot of creators and influencers to create content for them.

Anna Frapwell:

Um.

Anna Frapwell:

And again, it's the same kind of thing that works really well,

Anna Frapwell:

it's that whole storytelling.

Anna Frapwell:

It's the unboxing.

Anna Frapwell:

It's the reasons why it's the benefits it's getting.

Anna Frapwell:

All of those across in, in ads is what, what really works and converts on TikTok.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's good to know.

Vicki Weinberg:

So if you had, um, let's say you had an unboxing TikTok that you'd created,

Vicki Weinberg:

that you were pleased with and it was, you know, and it did well, can you

Vicki Weinberg:

turn, um, an organic TikTok into an ad?

Anna Frapwell:

Yes.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, you can.

Anna Frapwell:

They're called spark ads.

Anna Frapwell:

So you can use those as, um, TikTok ad.

Anna Frapwell:

You, the thing to bear in mind with, um, TikTok it and the, and it is kind

Anna Frapwell:

of something that's often a barrier to a lot of people and, and I can

Anna Frapwell:

totally see why, is that TikTok works when you have volume of creative,

Anna Frapwell:

it's such a fast paced platform that unlike Facebook, you could have an add

Anna Frapwell:

on Facebook that works really, really well, and it would just truck along.

Anna Frapwell:

And if it's getting conversions, it could just truck along for months.

Anna Frapwell:

Sometimes TikTok, your ad's going to fatigue within a couple of weeks.

Anna Frapwell:

So you kind of have to make sure that you've always got that creative

Anna Frapwell:

content that you are generating.

Anna Frapwell:

And we work with people to do that for them, or we work with creators

Anna Frapwell:

to get those creative for them.

Anna Frapwell:

So it's not necessarily something that the, the client has to do themselves,

Anna Frapwell:

but you have to be mindful that it's the volume of creative that kind

Anna Frapwell:

of makes TikTok work really well.

Anna Frapwell:

And you kind of have to be aware that, you know, in any one campaign

Anna Frapwell:

you may need five TikTok ads running and they may only last you two weeks.

Anna Frapwell:

So you'd need fresh content.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

I guess, I guess to think of it as refreshing the ads constantly.

Vicki Weinberg:

Mm-hmm.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

That is quite different to other platforms isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

Because you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

With Facebook you can definitely set up an ad and just as long as

Vicki Weinberg:

it's performing, just keep it going.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, and how is it?

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so I promise this is my final question about ads.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I mean, I find Facebook and Instagram, like the

Vicki Weinberg:

targeting side of ads quite.

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, it's got better, but it's, I find it tricky.

Vicki Weinberg:

I I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it tricky.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, how do you find TikTok for sort of working out how to target your ads and who

Vicki Weinberg:

should see them and that kind of thing?

Anna Frapwell:

So, um, just with Facebook and Instagram, TikTok has a TikTok

Anna Frapwell:

pixel that you need to get onto your website so that you can retarget people

Anna Frapwell:

and you can utilize the data from, um, people landing on your website to then

Anna Frapwell:

create audiences and create, look-a-like audiences and things like that, so that

Anna Frapwell:

you can kind of make sure that you are really targeting the right kind of people.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, I think that iOS 14 update, I don't actually know much about that.

Anna Frapwell:

I won't go into it in great detail, but when apple did their iOS 14

Anna Frapwell:

update, it did impact loads and those things when it came to targeting.

Anna Frapwell:

And, and certainly in terms of the kind of accuracy of the targeting that

Anna Frapwell:

we were able to utilize pre iOS 14.

Anna Frapwell:

Where things were really pretty pinpoint.

Anna Frapwell:

You could kind of go, oh, I want to target someone that

Anna Frapwell:

likes this and you'd find them.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, there are less interests now across Facebook and

Anna Frapwell:

Instagram than they used to be.

Anna Frapwell:

Um, and it is about kind of making sure that because of the fact that there are

Anna Frapwell:

less interests and because targeting has become harder, that's why your creative

Anna Frapwell:

really has to speak to your end user.

Anna Frapwell:

So it's your creative that will do the job.

Anna Frapwell:

So you will, will probably go out and this it actually applies across all

Anna Frapwell:

platforms, it's not just TikTok, it's not just Instagram, it's not just

Anna Frapwell:

Facebook, you are out to a broader audience, but you use your creative and

Anna Frapwell:

you use your copy to target those people.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

But it sounds like the algorithms quite sophisticated then.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, it's it is, it's really sophisticated and it it's, you

Anna Frapwell:

know, you will get then as a user, you do really genuinely get things that you

Anna Frapwell:

are really interested in, in your feed.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's good.

Vicki Weinberg:

And, and it's not always, also, from what you're saying, it's not always obvious

Vicki Weinberg:

when you're seeing an address when you're seeing organic content either.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean, obviously.

Anna Frapwell:

Where.

Anna Frapwell:

I mean it is, but most of the time, because you know, there is always a

Anna Frapwell:

call to action and things like that.

Anna Frapwell:

So as an appetizer, I'm probably acutely aware of what's an ad.

Anna Frapwell:

So what?

Anna Frapwell:

What's not an ad?

Anna Frapwell:

But on the whole, your main focus needs to be, to try and get these things,

Anna Frapwell:

to look as native as possible so that they don't, they disrupt the feed

Anna Frapwell:

because they're creative and engaging.

Anna Frapwell:

They don't disrupt the feed because you go, oh, that's an

Anna Frapwell:

ad, I'm going to scroll past.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, I see what you mean and what would be your,

Vicki Weinberg:

um, sorry Anna, I'm going to move on from ads for a second.

Vicki Weinberg:

What would be your sort of number one overall tip for someone

Vicki Weinberg:

wanting to get started on TikTok?

Anna Frapwell:

It would be don't overthink it, make it as native as possible.

Anna Frapwell:

Put the polished squares of Instagram well behind you and

Anna Frapwell:

just get on it and have fun.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's such good advice.

Vicki Weinberg:

And my final question Anna, is if someone wants a bit of help with

Vicki Weinberg:

their TikTok ads, um, what's the best way for them to contact you?

Anna Frapwell:

Sure.

Anna Frapwell:

So we are offering anyone that listens to this podcast, um, and

Anna Frapwell:

wants to find out a bit more.

Anna Frapwell:

We, um, I'm going to give you a link to our landing page, so we are

Anna Frapwell:

going to offer some free mini audits to anyone that is interested in

Anna Frapwell:

potentially working with us or would like to do some advertising on TikTok.

Anna Frapwell:

So that's, that's an opportunity, but, um, if you want to find us just

Anna Frapwell:

to follow us from an organic point of view, then we are on Instagram,

Anna Frapwell:

Facebook, and TikTok, and we are at Neon Digital Clicks on all three platforms.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much, Anna.

Vicki Weinberg:

And thank you for that link because I'm going to put it in the show notes because

Vicki Weinberg:

I think that's a really good opportunity.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

So that's just like a little mini audit or is it, or?

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, that's amazing.

Anna Frapwell:

Yeah, so we can, yeah, we can do that.

Anna Frapwell:

And we can just give some kind, really quick tips and advice and pointers.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much and thank you so much for everything you have shared today.

Anna Frapwell:

That's okay, thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for listening right

Vicki Weinberg:

to the end of this episode.

Vicki Weinberg:

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogues and lots of free resources

Vicki Weinberg:

on my website, vickiweinberg.com.

Vicki Weinberg:

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it

Vicki Weinberg:

and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.