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107: The Hospitality Industry & The Current State of Its Mental Health
Episode 107 • 15th September 2022 • Turning the Table • Realignment Media
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In this episode, Jim and I talk about the current state of the industry's mental health and how operators can ensure their staff are physically and emotionally safe for better retention.

Remember: It’s okay not to be okay.

If you're struggling right now, don't wait another minute, text

'HOME to 741741 in the US and Canada

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'13 11 14' or https://au.reachout.com/urgent-help  IAUS

Links Mentioned in the Show:

The Burnt Chef Project

Not9to5

I’ve Got Your Back

Chef Life Radio

Benchmark Sixty



Turning the Table, Episode109: Jay Ashton, producer and host of Sysco's SVK Podcast network, restaurant staff wellness, converting staff break rooms into wellness rooms, restaurant industry transformation, adam m lamb, restaurant business embracing changes, Jim Taylor, benchmark sixty, less talk - more action, The Brick furniture store, walking in nature, hospitality mental health wellness, hospitality industry, mental health wellness.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp

Transcripts

Adam Lamb:

Welcome back to another episode of turning the table.

Adam Lamb:

My name is Adam Lamb, and I'm here with my good buddy, Jim Taylor from benchmark 60.

Adam Lamb:

Hey Jim, how you doing?

Adam Lamb:

We are focused on this show specifically on staff centric, operating solutions

Adam Lamb:

for today's restaurant challenges.

Adam Lamb:

And we're gonna get into a little bit of that topic in this episode about

Adam Lamb:

hospitality industry and its state of mental healthcare or lack of it.

Adam Lamb:

Should I say there?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And before we get there, I just wanted to make sure that I shouted out to a couple

Adam Lamb:

some friends of ours who are, have been really great supporters of the show.

Adam Lamb:

So I wanted to kind of shout out to Patrick and Jemiah,

Adam Lamb:

Rodney Carl Scott Turner.

Adam Lamb:

All folks from seven shifts and food advis app, you know, they're inconsistently

Adam Lamb:

our biggest fans in shouting out for us and wanted to say thank you very much.

Adam Lamb:

And also to give a shout out, believe it or not to my, father-in-law.

Adam Lamb:

Yes.

Adam Lamb:

That's exactly correct.

Adam Lamb:

You'll see right here.

Adam Lamb:

My father-in-law has never commented on anything I've ever

Adam Lamb:

done on LinkedIn in all the years.

Adam Lamb:

And just the other day he posted a he DME saying, keep up the good work, like

Adam Lamb:

the inform feedback, Dave . That was all.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

So I guess I'm doing okay.

Adam Lamb:

We're doing okay.

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

I think I saw that the only other thing he's ever

Jim Taylor:

congratulated you on, on there was your

Adam Lamb:

anniversary.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Lamb:

Which was, you know, several years ago, but , you know, he's a typical Canadian,

Adam Lamb:

very kind, very sweet carnival hard edge.

Adam Lamb:

You know, he, he coached junior hockey teams for a long, long time.

Adam Lamb:

And then eventually was asked to stop based upon you know, some

Adam Lamb:

of these old school ways of of training and, and talking to folks.

Adam Lamb:

So it's kind of interesting.

Adam Lamb:

That happened to him and happened to me in one position where I

Adam Lamb:

was asked to leave because some folks did not feel safe around me.

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

They thought that I was creating a hostile work environment.

Adam Lamb:

I had a completely different perspective on that particular situation.

Adam Lamb:

But I have to say that in the years, since then I've come to understand that a

Adam Lamb:

role Our role as leaders means something completely different than it used to be.

Adam Lamb:

And consistently I've seen where folks are commenting on why they're

Adam Lamb:

leaving positions and it has nothing to do with the extra 50 cents or a

Adam Lamb:

dollar has everything to do with their employer being unable to protect them

Adam Lamb:

both either emotionally or physically.

Adam Lamb:

So they need to feel cared and cared for in a way that's different.

Adam Lamb:

and yet I look back on my career, Jim, and I think that that's probably

Adam Lamb:

something that I always wanted too, to feel like someone was looking out for me.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

And you know what, it's interesting.

Jim Taylor:

I had the same type of feedback at one point in my career too.

Jim Taylor:

I I'll never forget the first first management job I had, my GM actually sat

Jim Taylor:

me down and said that I was the problem.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

You know, I was constructive feedback from the staff and I thought complaining

Jim Taylor:

and he actually said, Hey, he goes, you know, you're, you're kind of the problem.

Jim Taylor:

And my, because I was very much a, a rule follower in the restaurant was like,

Jim Taylor:

you know, it was like, you're supposed to carry a trace, so carry a tray.

Jim Taylor:

And you're supposed to, you know, keep your thumbs off the rims of the plate.

Jim Taylor:

So keep your thumb.

Jim Taylor:

And, and I actually got to the point where I would ask people, you know, you

Jim Taylor:

either don't know, or you don't care, and I've told you to do this this way.

Jim Taylor:

So I know, you know, right.

Jim Taylor:

So that tells me you don't care.

Jim Taylor:

Anyways, he.

Jim Taylor:

He was pretty quick to say, Hey, look, you either need to change the

Jim Taylor:

way you address people this way.

Jim Taylor:

Or, or, you know, you're not gonna be the manager anymore

Jim Taylor:

because you're the problem.

Jim Taylor:

So it, you know, it was a quick reminder early in my management career that

Jim Taylor:

you know, we gotta make sure that we come across the right way to people

Jim Taylor:

are they're not gonna stick around.

Adam Lamb:

And how did that feedback land with you at the time?

Jim Taylor:

Well, I, you know, I was.

Jim Taylor:

The inexperienced, you know, in some cases younger than some of the staff

Jim Taylor:

that had worked there for a long time, I, you know, I wanted to be liked.

Jim Taylor:

I wanted to make sure that people felt like I was doing a good job.

Jim Taylor:

I was, there was definitely some insecurities in my, my, my ability

Jim Taylor:

to be a good manager at the time.

Jim Taylor:

I, there was just so much coming at me that I think I'd pretty quickly flipped.

Jim Taylor:

It, tried to flip that the other and make sure that I just did

Jim Taylor:

whatever I could to make sure my staff loved coming to work every

Adam Lamb:

day.

Adam Lamb:

That's interesting.

Adam Lamb:

And I think this hearkens back to a conversation we had with Allison Anne on,

Adam Lamb:

on on this show, I think that's episode five for those folks who wanna pull up

Adam Lamb:

that podcast to talk, you know, about this idea of like you just get handed the keys

Adam Lamb:

one day and say, Hey, can you close up?

Adam Lamb:

like, there's been no formalized leadership training.

Adam Lamb:

There's been no sensitivity classes.

Adam Lamb:

I mean, if at most, you know, you had to sit through a, you know, a five

Adam Lamb:

minute sexual harassment video in the HR office, but when it comes down to

Adam Lamb:

those stressful situations and you know, there's nothing more unique and satisfying

Adam Lamb:

as a manager and a leader as to get, you know, people from all walks of life

Adam Lamb:

and maybe three different languages, all moving in the right direction.

Adam Lamb:

Based upon your way of being with them, but it's kind of like one of these things

Adam Lamb:

that for some reason in our industry just takes a backseat to actually getting

Adam Lamb:

the job done that, that busyness, right?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

About like, if you need, if you just getting stuff done, then you need to take

Adam Lamb:

a look at, you know, where you're headed.

Adam Lamb:

Because as as a manager, you're doing great, but as a leader, not so great.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

So, you know, I, I think that one of the lessons that I learned

Jim Taylor:

early on in, in my management career, I really tried to make sure that

Jim Taylor:

I you know, continued to focus on.

Jim Taylor:

So it'd be interesting if anybody who I ever worked with listens to this,

Jim Taylor:

cuz they might tell me that I a good job or a bad job, but a mentor of mine

Jim Taylor:

actually said to me, at one point I asked.

Jim Taylor:

What do you want me to focus on as a manager?

Jim Taylor:

You know, which, and I, when I asked him that I was asking things like, what part

Jim Taylor:

of service or which line item on the P and L do you want me to really work

Jim Taylor:

hard on mm-hmm and his response was, I want you to make sure that everyone

Jim Taylor:

loves working on the shifts that you run.

Jim Taylor:

Hmm.

Jim Taylor:

And he was, that was it because he get, he just said, if people don't love coming

Jim Taylor:

to work every day on the shifts that you run, you won't be running shifts.

Jim Taylor:

And then you can't focus on anything.

Jim Taylor:

So really it was, you know, that for me, I, I took that and, and actually tried

Jim Taylor:

to give that feedback to a lot of people that I worked with, you know, when they

Jim Taylor:

were starting out new in management, this is the only thing I want you to work on.

Jim Taylor:

I just want you to make sure that people love

Adam Lamb:

working with you.

Adam Lamb:

So, but what did that look?

Adam Lamb:

What did that look like on a shift?

Adam Lamb:

I mean, that doesn't sound like he gave you much much direction.

Adam Lamb:

So as a young manager, are you trying to, you know, Have a personality

Adam Lamb:

that everybody likes working with or like, how do you hold

Adam Lamb:

people accountable for the work?

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Like what did that look like on a shift where folks really

Adam Lamb:

enjoyed working with you at that

Jim Taylor:

location?

Jim Taylor:

Well, his way of, of explaining that, cuz I kind of asked the same thing.

Jim Taylor:

Like, do you want me to just go around and be really nice to everybody all the time

Jim Taylor:

or you know, that, you know, great job.

Jim Taylor:

And is it, is that, is it just.

Jim Taylor:

His, you know, his philosophy on that.

Jim Taylor:

And I carried this through my management career and, you know, still

Jim Taylor:

try to is it was a filter, right?

Jim Taylor:

If make sure that everybody loves coming to work every day on the

Jim Taylor:

shifts that you're running is the filter for how you deal with people.

Jim Taylor:

You're gonna give feedback in a, you know, more constructive, you're

Jim Taylor:

gonna take time, you're gonna do it, you know, in a productive way.

Jim Taylor:

You're gonna make decisions that are, you know, gonna be beneficial for the

Jim Taylor:

business and the team and the customer.

Jim Taylor:

You know, it was kind of this filter for how you operate and

Jim Taylor:

how you interact with people.

Jim Taylor:

But it also, you know, your comment earlier about protecting people, it

Jim Taylor:

was really, that was a big part of it.

Jim Taylor:

It was a filter for how you deal with and interact with people.

Jim Taylor:

All.

Adam Lamb:

So you're coming from that perspective first.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

It's it was clear with, to anybody who had eyes to see that you know, COVID

Adam Lamb:

really did a number on the industry.

Adam Lamb:

And what I don't think is apparent to a lot of.

Adam Lamb:

Of the dining public is just how hard it was to reopen.

Adam Lamb:

I get that, you know, for those folks who are stuck at home and not

Adam Lamb:

able to socialize that coming out to a restaurant is their opportunity

Adam Lamb:

to be in relationship with people.

Adam Lamb:

And as human animals, we desperately need that connection.

Adam Lamb:

So we had people lining up at the doors ready to come in

Adam Lamb:

and didn't have enough staff.

Adam Lamb:

and continued to not have enough staff.

Adam Lamb:

And I think the one missing piece, or that's not talked about a lot right

Adam Lamb:

now is I, I think that the folks in the hospitality industry are, are

Adam Lamb:

having to deal with more stress now than when they did during COVID.

Adam Lamb:

And it's one of these situations where everybody, everybody

Adam Lamb:

wants it and most operators.

Adam Lamb:

Need the revenue because they're making up for losses.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm . And so they really wanna push really hard to make sure that

Adam Lamb:

everybody's efficient as productive, but very often the people are

Adam Lamb:

left completely stressed out.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

It's, it's almost like, you know, and I was talking to somebody about this the

Jim Taylor:

other day when things like shutdowns and reopens and plexiglass and all

Jim Taylor:

those things were happening, it was.

Jim Taylor:

It was easy.

Jim Taylor:

I should say, easier for operators to pinpoint exactly what the stress was.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

It was I'm stressed because we have to close or I'm stressed because our

Jim Taylor:

revenue went to zero or I'm stressed because I have to figure out how to

Jim Taylor:

transition my whole business to carry out.

Jim Taylor:

Now it's a combination of all these things, inflation, labor, shortages,

Jim Taylor:

profit margins, pricing, strategy, wages are going all these different things.

Jim Taylor:

And it's pulling in, in so many directions, I think right now.

Jim Taylor:

So many of the conversations that I know you're having too, Adam, is

Jim Taylor:

with operators that are just like, I just don't even know where to start.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And then, you know, I, the mental health aspect or concern.

Adam Lamb:

For the hospitality industry is something that I've shared for a long time.

Adam Lamb:

That part of it's my story, what I went through coming up in the industry and I've

Adam Lamb:

been doing a lot of work, I'd say probably over the last 12 or 15 years to not only

Adam Lamb:

be a better man, but a better leader than an, you know, better mentor than I was

Adam Lamb:

yesterday and that's incremental progress.

Adam Lamb:

But one of the things is, is both you and I are very vocal about the work

Adam Lamb:

that the Bern chef project is doing.

Adam Lamb:

Absolutely.

Adam Lamb:

And so I thought naively that, you know, these type of these types.

Adam Lamb:

Posts on social media were going to be, I, I don't know, less than maybe, but

Adam Lamb:

my daughter who knows how, how fervent I am about this type of work tagged

Adam Lamb:

me in a, in a Facebook comment where this person basically just stated,

Adam Lamb:

you know, I can't do this anymore.

Adam Lamb:

I'm an alcoholic.

Adam Lamb:

I don't eat well, I don't sleep well.

Adam Lamb:

My coffee addiction is too much.

Adam Lamb:

I smoke four packs of cigarettes a week.

Adam Lamb:

I don't do hard drugs, but I still itch all things considered.

Adam Lamb:

It's not so bad.

Adam Lamb:

I just can't anymore.

Adam Lamb:

I cry a.

Adam Lamb:

I'm always angry.

Adam Lamb:

How do you all keep going on?

Adam Lamb:

And that's it really hit my heart.

Adam Lamb:

And so I answered as best I could relating that I felt the pain.

Adam Lamb:

I felt the anguish and you know, how much pain is that person willing to go

Adam Lamb:

through before they actually take action?

Adam Lamb:

Because ultimately we're all sovereign beings and we need

Adam Lamb:

to be responsible for our.

Adam Lamb:

But this idea that there are folks who are hanging on by their fingernails.

Adam Lamb:

And very often those folks are like I did at one point in my career,

Adam Lamb:

you know, just self-medicating with anything that's cheap available and

Adam Lamb:

at hand in order to ease that pain.

Adam Lamb:

So.

Adam Lamb:

I don't really wanna be a bummer about this, but I think it's important to

Adam Lamb:

highlight to everybody that first off to those who are going through some difficult

Adam Lamb:

times you're not alone and your voice is valuable and we need to hear more of it.

Adam Lamb:

I made a commitment before coming back, bringing back chef life, radio,

Adam Lamb:

and to go full fledge on my, on my coaching and mentoring business that.

Adam Lamb:

I felt very strongly that I didn't wanna lose another hospitality

Adam Lamb:

professional to suicide because they didn't have access to resources that

Adam Lamb:

they, that they thought that they didn't matter that no one wanted to listen.

Adam Lamb:

And I think one of the things that I'd like to hear you speak about is this.

Adam Lamb:

Kind of condition, you know, when we, when you got that feedback about, you know, oh,

Adam Lamb:

you're, you're gonna need to change that.

Adam Lamb:

I think we're creatures of habit and we do as we've been taught.

Adam Lamb:

So one of the things that I came to understand in my career was that just

Adam Lamb:

because it was, does to done to me, or that's the way I was trained change and

Adam Lamb:

condition didn't necessarily mean that I had to do that with other people.

Adam Lamb:

So.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

I mean, and, and our industry is notorious for doing things

Jim Taylor:

the way they've always been done.

Adam Lamb:

in lots of ways.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Right?

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Whether, whether that's strategy, whether that's, you know, model cost

Jim Taylor:

modeling, whether that's, you know, how to write a menu or whether that's,

Jim Taylor:

how to, how to deal with people.

Jim Taylor:

You know, and, and I think to, to people like that individual that, that

Jim Taylor:

made that comment just call us, you know, let's find a way to get in touch.

Jim Taylor:

You know, I, I, I shared a thing a couple weeks ago about that.

Jim Taylor:

I just wish everyone.

Jim Taylor:

I wish we could get to a point as quickly as possible.

Jim Taylor:

And, and I still do that.

Jim Taylor:

Everyone just loves working in restaurants again.

Jim Taylor:

Yep.

Jim Taylor:

and I've had a couple of interesting, you know, lots of people say,

Jim Taylor:

I agree, which is awesome.

Jim Taylor:

Lots of people say, what do you mean again?

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

like, as if to say, I never really heard it, which, you know, everyone's,

Jim Taylor:

you know, got their own, but right.

Jim Taylor:

A lot of people saying things like there's too much change that needs

Jim Taylor:

to happen or there's, this is gonna take decades or this is gonna take,

Jim Taylor:

you know, a combination of policy.

Jim Taylor:

You know, approach and all those different things at the same

Jim Taylor:

time in order to accomplish that.

Jim Taylor:

Well, that's fine.

Jim Taylor:

You know, one of my, and Adam, you know, this, one of my personal missions is to,

Jim Taylor:

is to change the way the entire industry looks at how it protects its people.

Jim Taylor:

Correct.

Jim Taylor:

Like really think about it in terms of like, let's go back to caveman and you

Jim Taylor:

know, I stay awake while you sleep.

Jim Taylor:

So the savor tooth tiger doesn't, , you know, we need to find ways to

Jim Taylor:

protect people because you're right.

Jim Taylor:

There's too many of those.

Jim Taylor:

I can't do it anymore.

Jim Taylor:

I left, I had a woman send me a message about, she was worried about

Jim Taylor:

her son because he was so stressed out that he, he not only did he leave

Jim Taylor:

the industry for another job, he left the industry and couldn't work.

Jim Taylor:

You know, we definitely need to do this and Shane, you know, I know

Jim Taylor:

Shane and Shane and I have been back and forth having conversation here a

Jim Taylor:

little bit for the last few months.

Jim Taylor:

And he's got lots of experience and a good comment here about yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Chefs in their car and pride.

Jim Taylor:

That's unbelievable.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

I I interviewed one of my best friends, longest one of my longest friends.

Adam Lamb:

He's a very successful chef.

Adam Lamb:

He's out in and he he says to me, props to James Shirley, by the way

Adam Lamb:

he said to me like you ever been at a job where you just, whenever

Adam Lamb:

you're alone, you just want to cry.

Adam Lamb:

Like the frustration for, for whatever reason is just so much whether, you

Adam Lamb:

know, no one wants to listen to you or you're working too hard or whatever.

Adam Lamb:

And again, don't want to be a bummer, but definitely wanna.

Adam Lamb:

Make sure that everybody's aware that the need for this type of work, this type

Adam Lamb:

of outreach is even more necessary now.

Adam Lamb:

So and Jamie Lauren is watching us on Facebook and she says,

Adam Lamb:

so gut wrenching and true AAF.

Adam Lamb:

And I don't necessarily want to, you know, it's kind of like a.

Adam Lamb:

I don't want it to be kind of depression, porn, right.

Adam Lamb:

like, okay.

Adam Lamb:

So we know there's a problem now, what are we gonna do about it?

Adam Lamb:

Because, and I, I can't speak for anybody else, Jim, but I know for a while in

Adam Lamb:

my career I would not, you know, it, I could see somebody struggling and

Adam Lamb:

I purposely would not approach them because to start a conversation and.

Adam Lamb:

At that time, what I thought was a can of worms meant that they probably weren't

Adam Lamb:

gonna be able to finish the shift.

Adam Lamb:

And that meant that I had to shift people around.

Adam Lamb:

So very often I was looking the other way, shamefully and now advocate,

Adam Lamb:

teach and mentor other ways of being but I want to first talk about this

Adam Lamb:

very I wanna say nontraditional way of, of, of acting, which is Benchmark

Adam Lamb:

60 has a productivity metric that they, which is a solution to operators.

Adam Lamb:

And I love it because it's kind of a, it's not subversive, but it's kind of sneaking

Adam Lamb:

in a little way because basically we're approaching operators by saying, listen,

Adam Lamb:

you're, you're struggling right now.

Adam Lamb:

You can see that.

Adam Lamb:

And let's look at labor this way, as opposed to how we've always done it.

Adam Lamb:

And the resulting the, the result of that is, is a metric by which.

Adam Lamb:

Without even stepping into their restaurant.

Adam Lamb:

We know if it's over a certain, you know, if it's 0.1 over what

Adam Lamb:

that metric's supposed to be.

Adam Lamb:

We know that everybody in that restaurant had a really shitty shift yeah, right.

Adam Lamb:

That they worked too hard.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And who, and who wants that?

Adam Lamb:

Right.

Adam Lamb:

So can you speak a little bit more about the applications that you've seen in

Adam Lamb:

some of the changes that operators are, were actually able to achieve based

Adam Lamb:

upon your, not only your, your coaching around the data analysis, but also

Adam Lamb:

Allowing them to see the opportunities within their own organizations.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah, sure.

Jim Taylor:

Well, it's, you know, we refer to that as it's, it's called workload management, and

Jim Taylor:

it's really interesting that conversation with restaurant operators, because I

Jim Taylor:

think naturally we all think of workload.

Jim Taylor:

As what side work do you have today?

Jim Taylor:

Or what are your, how big is your section or, you know, the one, the one.

Jim Taylor:

Chef that can butterfly a case of chicken breast faster than the other.

Jim Taylor:

I remember the guys that I used to work with, they always had

Jim Taylor:

contests to see who could do it the fastest, you know, so it's like how

Jim Taylor:

much work can one person get done?

Jim Taylor:

in a certain shift and that right.

Jim Taylor:

I'm biased.

Jim Taylor:

But my, my belief is that the beauty of how we look at some of this data

Jim Taylor:

is that it's not about one person.

Jim Taylor:

It's not about one shift.

Jim Taylor:

It's not about someone's skill or or that type of thing.

Jim Taylor:

It's actually about how hard does the whole team have to work

Jim Taylor:

in order to achieve the result the business wants to achieve.

Jim Taylor:

And, and like you said, we can actually say to them, your team is

Jim Taylor:

having to work too hard to get this.

Jim Taylor:

And that's not a good thing typically because it causes,

Jim Taylor:

you know, burnout and stress.

Jim Taylor:

And so, you know, Adam, you and I have talked a lot about this, but

Jim Taylor:

where, where a lot of this came from was that we did a bunch of research

Jim Taylor:

that showed us that labor cost as a percentage of revenue, when that's

Jim Taylor:

the metric that restaurants measure, which pretty much every restaurant

Jim Taylor:

does in my experience, at least mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

It's the number one cause of stress, anxiety, mental

Jim Taylor:

health challenge addiction.

Jim Taylor:

You know, we don't need to go down the, the rabbit hole of

Jim Taylor:

what the, what else that causes.

Jim Taylor:

So if we can find a way and, and actually use real information and data

Jim Taylor:

to protect how hard the team has to work.

Jim Taylor:

We can connect that directly to retention turnover, you know, mental

Jim Taylor:

health challenges in, in at least what the business is causing side of it.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

So.

Jim Taylor:

It's it's definitely helping a lot of restaurants get better perspective

Jim Taylor:

on how hard their team has to work.

Jim Taylor:

And the thing I love about it is we, we've done lots of cool work with

Jim Taylor:

companies who are actually creating messaging for their team in their

Jim Taylor:

manuals and in their training that says, as a company, we have a policy and a

Jim Taylor:

procedure to protect how hard you have to.

Jim Taylor:

So that you don't get burnt out.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

I, I can't.

Adam Lamb:

I imagine that that is just a catalyst for a lot of different change.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, I just wanna reference a comment by Shane, he says, we

Adam Lamb:

need to learn to communicate.

Adam Lamb:

We've learned how to say yes, chef.

Adam Lamb:

So we can learn how to say when I shouted at you during your service.

Adam Lamb:

I was not at my best.

Adam Lamb:

I'm trying to do better.

Adam Lamb:

I'm sorry.

Adam Lamb:

So this whole idea of transparency and vulnerability, you know, You know,

Adam Lamb:

it's one of my values that I work and live at and understanding that, you

Adam Lamb:

know, I can't ask anybody else to be vulnerable if I'm not gonna do that

Adam Lamb:

first and admit, admitting your mistakes is a great way to start with that.

Adam Lamb:

And to Shane's point that, you know, it can't just be that, you know, you can

Adam Lamb:

only say you can only hear, I'm sorry.

Adam Lamb:

So many times before there's a seed change and people go, well,

Adam Lamb:

you know, that's cool because now, now it's just words and don't.

Adam Lamb:

Not really landing with me.

Adam Lamb:

So while there's a data approach, there's also a behavioral modification approach,

Adam Lamb:

which is behind, you know, the work that I do with chefs and hospitality

Adam Lamb:

professionals about transmuting, a lot of this crap that we've carried around

Adam Lamb:

with that would cause me to yell at somebody so that we can actually, you

Adam Lamb:

know, get on with the business of building the hashtag new hospitality culture.

Adam Lamb:

And I just wanted to speak to a couple resources that are out there.

Adam Lamb:

If you don't mind, Jim, so everybody, you know, we talk about

Adam Lamb:

the burnt chef project a lot.

Adam Lamb:

But they are continuing to expand all the ways that they can

Adam Lamb:

actually help and support people.

Adam Lamb:

So there's, you know, the there's the call line.

Adam Lamb:

They're actually working on an app.

Adam Lamb:

They're connecting with all these people.

Adam Lamb:

and for me, it's very, very important to make sure that everybody understands

Adam Lamb:

here in the United States, that, you know, the Bern chef project has

Adam Lamb:

done lots of different research.

Adam Lamb:

And they've said, you know, 84% of hospitality professionals

Adam Lamb:

have had at least one mental health incident in their career.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm and almost 70% of them are not gonna say anything to their family,

Adam Lamb:

to their friends or to their coworker.

Adam Lamb:

So, again, not only are you struggling inside, but now you can't talk to anybody.

Adam Lamb:

So what a burden that is.

Adam Lamb:

So you know, here in the United States, the, the Bern chef project

Adam Lamb:

has a a free service and you text home Hom E to the number 7 41, 7 41.

Adam Lamb:

And somebody calls you back with him about five minutes with a list

Adam Lamb:

of resources that you can have.

Adam Lamb:

And.

Adam Lamb:

there's also other organizations out there called like not nine to five mm-hmm

Adam Lamb:

, which is very doing some important work.

Adam Lamb:

And if you go to their website and click on the coalition button, you'll see

Adam Lamb:

all the other organizations that are actually actually committed to changing.

Adam Lamb:

and you know, again, Shane is Chi in with like, it's all trauma, man.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, we have, we all had it and we're constantly reacting it just in different

Adam Lamb:

ways and couldn't agree more, man.

Adam Lamb:

And yet there is a way to transmute that trauma into something

Adam Lamb:

that's good and positive so that the other people around you.

Adam Lamb:

Are lifted up from that.

Adam Lamb:

And the other one that I really love is I got your back, which is Patrick Mulvaney

Adam Lamb:

who started this project basically on a whim, him and his wife in the restaurant.

Adam Lamb:

And it's created this huge opportunity for other organizations to tag along with it.

Adam Lamb:

And it's basically, you know, during pre meals, you're actually

Adam Lamb:

checking the temperature.

Adam Lamb:

of your organization verbally.

Adam Lamb:

And there are people who wear a little purple button on their jacket and

Adam Lamb:

every time they go around they're they're the person that if someone's

Adam Lamb:

struggling, they can go to, so there's what we can do afterwards.

Adam Lamb:

But these preventative measures, I think are very powerful Jim, again, back to the

Adam Lamb:

benchmark 60 routine, which is, you know, I would love to be able to show my staff.

Adam Lamb:

Show them, not just say, but show them that, Hey, we're actually doing

Adam Lamb:

something to protect your workload.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Yes we should.

Adam Lamb:

Yes, we should work hard.

Adam Lamb:

However, you know, we don't want too, we don't want too, too hard, right?

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

That's something we talk about a lot with, with operators is there's a

Jim Taylor:

difference between it's okay to have to work hard, but there's a difference

Jim Taylor:

between hard work and having to work too.

Jim Taylor:

That it actually has, you know, residual negative, potentially negative effects.

Jim Taylor:

And you know, it, we were talking about this the other day as a group

Jim Taylor:

too, that, you know, it it's way more productive as a business.

Jim Taylor:

Or as an operator or as an industry to take the time to protect our people,

Jim Taylor:

then it is to try to talk about burnout or, or turnover or people quitting

Jim Taylor:

after and try, oh, well, we'll change.

Jim Taylor:

We'll do something.

Jim Taylor:

I'm sorry.

Jim Taylor:

Can you stick around?

Jim Taylor:

We'll pay you another dollar.

Jim Taylor:

Just invest the time in advance to make sure we, like I said, protect

Jim Taylor:

them from the saber tooth tiger that we know is, is coming after them.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

It's.

Jim Taylor:

That's part of the change that we

Adam Lamb:

need to see.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, it's been my experience that there are a lot of people out there

Adam Lamb:

who will blame the industry, quote, unquote, the industry for a lot of

Adam Lamb:

the stuff that they're going through.

Adam Lamb:

And while that may be productive in the moment and, and make them feel

Adam Lamb:

better really what's happening is.

Adam Lamb:

It's hard to feel like you can change the situation if, if it's

Adam Lamb:

attributed to something outside.

Adam Lamb:

So that's why from my space, I am constantly reiterating

Adam Lamb:

that no, we are the industry.

Adam Lamb:

And as we come together as a cohesive force, moving forward towards a specific

Adam Lamb:

goal, which is to create supportive, equitable workplace cultures, , you know,

Adam Lamb:

it can't just be blaming somebody else.

Adam Lamb:

We're all responsible for, this is what I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Adam Lamb:

So as we continue to work together, then things start changing a little bit.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

So solution wise, I think we need to, you know, speak, you were giving shout

Jim Taylor:

outs to people a little bit earlier.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm we need to, we need to shout out to you a little bit here, Adam.

Jim Taylor:

Cause of all the people that I've met in, in this industry and you

Jim Taylor:

know, you and I spent a lot of.

Jim Taylor:

Together, especially recently, you know, talking about how

Jim Taylor:

to move some of this forward.

Jim Taylor:

I can honestly tell you, man, I think you do a better job and communicate

Jim Taylor:

better about the things you do personally, to protect yourself

Jim Taylor:

than almost anyone I've ever met.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm thank you from sauna to, you know, groups.

Jim Taylor:

I don't, I won't say what all that stuff is, but you can what

Jim Taylor:

that stuff is, if you want to.

Jim Taylor:

Sure.

Jim Taylor:

You know?

Jim Taylor:

Sure, sure.

Jim Taylor:

I, I know that's something I need to do a better job of sharing the

Jim Taylor:

things that I do to try to make sure that I'm still good, but.

Jim Taylor:

You know, you're, you're just incredibly good at that.

Jim Taylor:

And I think you, your

Adam Lamb:

story is awesome.

Adam Lamb:

Thanks.

Adam Lamb:

And I appreciate that Jim, I'm letting it in and receiving.

Adam Lamb:

Thank you.

Adam Lamb:

And I also wanted to speak to Shane's comment from a little while ago, is that.

Adam Lamb:

You know, as hospitality professionals.

Adam Lamb:

Very often we have like very porous boundaries we don't

Adam Lamb:

hold very strict boundaries.

Adam Lamb:

I mean, that's, you know, I look at myself and how many times I

Adam Lamb:

ended up in a romantic situation that I shouldn't have been in.

Adam Lamb:

And that was because I didn't have very good boundaries.

Adam Lamb:

And I got used to having, well, I got used to having instant gratification.

Adam Lamb:

So when there was something that wasn't going right in my life, very.

Adam Lamb:

I would go the con conquest way because it fed a need within myself.

Adam Lamb:

So this idea of having very, like understand, like creating

Adam Lamb:

healthy boundaries for yourself and then articulating that to your

Adam Lamb:

employer is very, very powerful.

Adam Lamb:

Like you, you can say, no, you can say no.

Adam Lamb:

As a matter of fact you know, to rip off the burnt chef project,

Adam Lamb:

you know, it's okay to not be okay.

Adam Lamb:

You know, if you're feeling it great.

Adam Lamb:

If you're not feeling it and you're gonna go to work anyway, then that's

Adam Lamb:

probably something that you want to take a moment to look at because

Adam Lamb:

you're probably saddled with some responsibility that you think is yours.

Adam Lamb:

And I get that everybody needs to make a make money, but we have to be able to hold

Adam Lamb:

our boundaries or else, you know, we're gonna get run over because the business.

Adam Lamb:

Is changing.

Adam Lamb:

The stresses are not gonna go away.

Adam Lamb:

So part of that is like how you actually deal with that stress

Adam Lamb:

and know when enough is enough.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Reaching out for help.

Adam Lamb:

Speaking to somebody like you said, Jim, you know, you and I are available

Adam Lamb:

almost all the time and wanna make sure that wanna make sure that everybody

Adam Lamb:

understands that there is, if you're struggling, there is a solution.

Adam Lamb:

And I could go into much more detail about some of the things I've seen

Adam Lamb:

and, and what's happened to other people, but I'm not gonna do that.

Adam Lamb:

Like you said, it's about solutions.

Adam Lamb:

So I encourage everybody listening to do their research, check out.

Adam Lamb:

I got your back because it's something you can implement

Adam Lamb:

in your organization tomorrow.

Adam Lamb:

That will make a difference.

Adam Lamb:

And just consider that when you start making a change, people are gonna not

Adam Lamb:

know what's going on because they're so used to you showing up in a certain way.

Adam Lamb:

And all of a sudden you're showing up a different way.

Adam Lamb:

You won't wanna preface it by saying, Hey, listen, found the solution, listen

Adam Lamb:

to this podcast, watch this live stream.

Adam Lamb:

I think this would really benefit is does everybody, you know, can we get consensus?

Adam Lamb:

At least we want to try.

Adam Lamb:

So that point about to Shane about, you know, needing to communicate it, it,

Adam Lamb:

where we are headed as an industry into.

Adam Lamb:

New hospitality culture communication is the, a number one thing it's got,

Adam Lamb:

we have to have fluid, transparent vulnerable conversations so that

Adam Lamb:

people understand that we're not just looking at 'em as a position on a

Adam Lamb:

schedule or a pair of hands that we are actually employing whole human beings.

Adam Lamb:

So yeah.

Adam Lamb:

You know what, so thank you know what that just reminded

Jim Taylor:

me of, sorry, Adam, just to jump in.

Jim Taylor:

The whole human beings thing.

Jim Taylor:

I don't think it really ever clicked with me for a long

Jim Taylor:

time when I was in operations.

Jim Taylor:

And now it's one of those things that it's like when you buy a red car

Jim Taylor:

and then all the cars you see again.

Jim Taylor:

Yeah.

Jim Taylor:

I don't think this ever really registered for, with me for a long time.

Jim Taylor:

And now I hear it all the time and it jumps out at me every time when

Jim Taylor:

people in operations in restaurants or any other industry, they say,

Jim Taylor:

oh, how many bodies do we need?

Jim Taylor:

Ha right.

Jim Taylor:

How many bot schedule another body it's like?

Jim Taylor:

Is that, what is that what they are?

Jim Taylor:

They're just bodies.

Jim Taylor:

You know, I think it's one of those things and, and I catch myself all the time

Jim Taylor:

and, and was talking about this with an operator the other day that can, can you

Jim Taylor:

try to change that terminology to people?

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm because it will, again, if we're looking for a filter.

Jim Taylor:

You know, that for me is I've really been trying to hone in on that in

Jim Taylor:

conversations that I've been having about, let's make sure that we refer

Jim Taylor:

to the people that we work with as people cause that's a place to start.

Adam Lamb:

Yep.

Adam Lamb:

I couldn't agree more.

Adam Lamb:

I think the words we choose to use have incredible power not only the intonation,

Adam Lamb:

but the words themselves and they imply a certain amount of understanding or, or.

Adam Lamb:

Or not understanding like, you know, pair of hands.

Adam Lamb:

I need a cup pair of hands over here.

Adam Lamb:

I need a body over here, da, da.

Adam Lamb:

And you know, because we're because we like to please cuz we're in the

Adam Lamb:

service industry, we're all over.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Chef, absolutely chef you bet chef.

Adam Lamb:

And that can be troublesome and especially because you get to a point

Adam Lamb:

where people start to relating to one another as just bodies, less than, you

Adam Lamb:

know, Fully functioning, whole human beings with, you know, dominion over

Adam Lamb:

their hearts and minds and sovereign.

Adam Lamb:

Right?

Adam Lamb:

Like I love that idea about I love that idea that they're

Adam Lamb:

now starting to do in Germany.

Adam Lamb:

And in Canada about you can't call your employer.

Adam Lamb:

on their day off.

Adam Lamb:

It's illegal.

Adam Lamb:

You get fined.

Adam Lamb:

And as I said before, in other shows doesn't have to become law for you

Adam Lamb:

to go ahead and think that that's a good thing for your organization.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm so all these resources are available, whether you're looking

Adam Lamb:

at them as an individual or saying, Hey, heard something on this podcast.

Adam Lamb:

I think it's pretty good.

Adam Lamb:

You know, giving it to your boss.

Adam Lamb:

I don't know of too many restaurant tours, owners or GMs who don't wanna

Adam Lamb:

take better care of their people.

Adam Lamb:

but sometimes because things are going at such a rapid

Adam Lamb:

pace, they might like miss it.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

Or maybe not understand that that's the biggest challenge that they have.

Adam Lamb:

I think both of us are, are completely down with this concept of the biggest

Adam Lamb:

challenge that anybody will ever have in the hospitality industry is.

Adam Lamb:

Is there people mm-hmm and if you can master that, everything

Adam Lamb:

else is just a detail.

Adam Lamb:

I don't care what technique you're using in the kitchen or how difficult it is.

Adam Lamb:

If you can be a master mentor, then everything is easy, man.

Adam Lamb:

So well said, Jim, I wanna thank you as always.

Adam Lamb:

Any last words before we kick off,

Jim Taylor:

I, I think that, you know, that we could have.

Jim Taylor:

We're here at 35 minutes.

Jim Taylor:

We could, we could five hours.

Jim Taylor:

I know, you know, I just, it's a pleasure to just get the chance to

Jim Taylor:

continue to talk to you about how we can move the needle on this.

Jim Taylor:

Just an opportunity to just take better care of people.

Adam Lamb:

Thanks.

Adam Lamb:

You can find out more about Jim Taylor and the work that he does at

Adam Lamb:

benchmark 60 at benchmark sixty.com and you can find out more about.

Adam Lamb:

By going to the LinkedIn or the, the link tree address in my profile.

Adam Lamb:

And we'd love to work with you.

Adam Lamb:

If you are looking for some assistance in creating a great

Adam Lamb:

environment for your staff promoting your retention and becoming a, a

Adam Lamb:

preferred employer in your market.

Adam Lamb:

So thanks very much.

Adam Lamb:

Appreciate you listening.