Higher Powered Personal Eschatology Jessica Morris part 2

Pastor Bob Thibodeau engages in an enlightening conversation with Jessica Morris about her transformative journey of personal eschatology as detailed in her book, "Higher Power: One Woman's Journey of Personal Eschatology." The episode delves into the concept of personal eschatology, which redefines traditional views of spiritual transformation by emphasizing the ongoing nature of one's spiritual journey and healing. Jessica shares her profound experiences battling addiction and trauma, highlighting how her faith led to a complete transformation in her life. She draws parallels between her story and the biblical figures of Nicodemus, Lazarus, and the Apostle Paul, showcasing the importance of community and divine intervention in the recovery process. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own spiritual journeys and consider how embracing these concepts can lead to renewal and deeper connections with God.

Takeaways:

• Personal eschatology redefines spiritual transformation by emphasizing individual experiences rather than traditional views.
• Jessica Morris's journey from addiction to recovery showcases the power of faith in healing.
• The importance of community support is highlighted through the story of Lazarus's unbinding.
• Pastor Bob and Jessica discuss the transformative nature of personal encounters with Jesus.
• Writing can serve as a therapeutic outlet, helping individuals process their spiritual journeys.
• The concept of personal eschatology invites listeners to confront their own life challenges.

CONTACT INFORMATION:

Email:  jessica_l_morris@comcast.net

Website:  https://jessicalmorris.com

Book: Higher Powered: One Woman's Journey of Personal Eschatology – on Amazon

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Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Pastor Bob conducts personal interviews with Christian influencers from around the globe, helping Christian authors, recording artists, CEOs, entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, and yes, pastors and ministry leaders to get the word out about what they are doing to impact the world with the gospel.

Our podcast has been rated in the top 1/2% of all podcasts in the world by ListenNotes.com so you know your message will be heard.

Now here is your host with today's interview, Pastor Bob Thibodeau.

Hello, everyone, everywhere.

Pastor Bob Thibodeau here.

Welcome to the Kingdom Crossroads podcast.

Today we're so blessed you're joining us.

We continue our discussion with Jessica Morris.

She's a great author and spiritual director.

We've been discussing her book Higher One Woman's Journey of Personal Eschatology.

Now, her story is just one of profound transformation.

Amen.

Battling addiction and trauma to finding, healing and purpose through her faith.

Now, if you missed any of part one, you need to go back and listen to it to get caught up because I don't have time to go back and tell you all about the things that we already talked about.

Amen.

We're just going to jump right back into the conclusion of this great interview now with, with Jessica Morris.

You, you coined the term personal eschatology as we led to in the introduction.

Can you elaborate on that term and how it redefines traditional views of spiritual transformation?

Oh, sure, sure.

Eschatology, for anyone who doesn't know, is the study of the end times.

So in, in theological circles, there are different types of it.

Realized eschatology is it's happening now.

Know, the, the Gospel of John is very much where people send you when you want to look at realized eschatology.

Because Jesus keeps saying the time is now, you know, it's happening right now.

You know, then there's apocalyptic eschatology, which is a revelation sort of a future thing.

The book of Revelation is where you would go to look for that.

There's other places in the Bible where it talks about that and there are lots of different ideas about those things.

But both of those, those two that I talk about in the book that I researched are for everyone.

Like it's a sort of it's happening now for everyone or it's going to happen in the future for everyone.

The end of the way things are now is going to be and then the new life, the peace is going to come.

Right?

And it's, it's a promise, it's a revelation.

It's a prophecy, Some might say what happened to me was when I was learning these things in my Intro to New Testament class, I had this memory of Jesus coming to me that day or that night outside the party.

And I real.

I thought to myself, you know, all we talk about in this class is how Jesus spoke to people metaphorically, how he used story and symbol to get his message across, and how a lot of people kind of didn't get it.

You know, they talk about how some people got it.

Even the disciples sometimes would come to him after a teaching and go, what were you talking about?

No idea what you were saying there.

And so people didn't often get it.

And it took a while.

And I thought, what if he actually meant it was going to be the end of my life as I knew it when he returned?

And I started to think about all the people that I've met in recovery and that I've heard tell their stories of transformation and how the person they were when they were living in their addiction is maybe still in there somewhere.

And if they pick up that drink or they pick up the cookie or they go gambling again, whatever it happens to be, that person will rear their ugly head again, right?

But that person, pretty much today in sobriety is gone.

It is a completely different way of looking at life, of living life, of receiving life.

And for me, I realized the Jessica who showed up at her first meeting of Recovery is not the Jessica of today.

In fact, the counselor who sent me to Recovery very soon after I got into recovery moved out of the area.

And I never really got to tell her, you know, how good things were going until I went to my first open house at the seminary.

And there she was.

Here she had done a full circle, and she was a.

She was now in charge of the spiritual formation program at the seminary.

And I walked.

She had no idea who I was.

She couldn't put it, didn't remember, because.

Well, she remembered once, I told her.

But she didn't see it in me because I was completely different.

I was changed.

The life I knew was gone.

And the life I was living was one of peace.

Like to have peace in my.

My addictions are food and alcohol, my main addictions.

And to have.

To have peace in my heart and to not think about food 24 7.

Because that.

That's my first memory of life.

My first memory of childhood is stealing food out of my family's cabinets.

And to not be thinking about food 24 7, that's a miracle.

That is a complete alteration of my brain.

And that's not anything I did that.

I mean, I might have showed, like you said, I showed up and I did the work, but God's the one who changed my brain and changed my heart.

And I.

Anybody who doesn't believe, I say, look, I can't explain it to you, but I can tell you what I was like.

And people who knew me then can come up to you and say, yeah, there's a God, because this right here did not happen because she did it.

So that's.

That's the personal end of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Amen.

You know, when.

When I stopped drinking, I didn't know I'd stopped drinking.

And, you know, I mean, I was.

I could.

I could drink just about anybody under the table back then.

Yeah.

And one night, I'll never forget it, it was that week between Thanksgiving and the 1st of December.

Right.

Right in that area.

My wife and I.

Well, it was.

And we were out and not out, but we were out of alcohol.

Put it like that.

Okay.

My wife and I were just sitting there watching the television.

I said, I feel like getting a drink.

I'm going to go down to the liquor store, get a bottle and come back.

She said, okay, I got down there.

Now I've been born again already.

I was born again.

1992.

Right.

I was there.

I know what happened.

And.

Okay.

And so I went down to the liquor store and I'm looking at.

I don't know, it's nothing really in here.

Looking good.

So I got a little pint bottle of Jim Beam.

Now I could do that by myself.

And about two drinks, two glasses.

And so I went back home, mixed up a drink, took about drink, two or three sips.

I said, I'm just going to go to bed.

And went to bed, didn't think about it anymore.

May of the following year, we had a leak under the sink.

My wife said, there's a leak under here.

You know, everything's wet.

All right, so I'm pulling everything out so I can tighten up the loose fitting.

And there's that half full bottle of whiskey.

And I said, I haven't had a drink in six months.

I didn't even know I quit.

And then that bottle started talking and I said, nope, right down the drain it went.

Never, you know, never had another one supernaturally delivered from an alcohol addiction and didn't even know it for six months.

Isn't that amazing?

Oh, but fast Forward to about 30 years later.

Our family went out to dinner at one of these steakhouses and stuff.

And there's no tables for us, so all the girls wanted, we're in a little area they call the Avenue.

A lot like an old fashioned street, you know, all the stores are on the street, not in the mall type thing.

Yeah.

And so they're gonna go just window shopping because they said it'd be about half hour before a table will be ready.

My son in law and I went up to the bar because there's no seats to sit in.

And I ordered a Coke, you know, he, he ordered a drink, but I ordered a Coke and I had my arm up on the bar, glass in my hand.

The atmosphere, the sound, the smells.

And that spirit came back and I was like, oh no, I told myself I gotta go outside.

I, I just gotta, I, I, I can't, I can't be in here because I just can't do it.

You know, that's the only time in all those years, the only time that spirit came back to try and make his way back and it didn't work.

I mean, I identified that thing right off the bat and said, no, I, I do not be, need to be in this environment.

And so.

Yeah, and so I could relate to everything you're saying, you know, because it's, I mean, I'm getting goosebumps right now just thinking about how Jesus supernaturally delivered me from this stuff and well, in.

Such a gift that you, I'm sorry, but that's such a, I have to just point out what a gift that is for you, that you were able to recognize that in the moment.

Oh yeah.

You know, because, and, and I think I would attribute it to probably your daily walk with Jesus.

You know that.

Absolutely.

That every day that's where you start and that's where you stay, you know, because when we're closest to him is when he's, when it's easiest for him to protect us.

You know, it's when we're far away that, you know, it's hard for us to hear the messages, you know, or when we've got something in between us.

And so when you were describing that, I was like my spiritual director hat came on and I was like, whoa, like this is.

Jesus is coming in here and just like putting a bubble around you, you know, because that old stuff does seem extremely inviting sometimes.

Oh, you know, like I said, I mean, I was in the environment.

I mean, I was reliving you Know, like.

Yeah, this.

Oh, I mean, I was like, you know, I felt like, you know, Elijah, you know, when, when he, after he told Ahab, you know, it's not going to rain till I say so.

Right.

Yeah.

And then, you know, God didn't pat him on the back, you know, say, good job, Elijah, kick back.

No, he said run.

Yeah.

And that's what I felt in that moment.

Ah, no, no, no.

I gotta get out of here.

Yeah.

And you followed, what a wonderful thing, you followed that intuition.

Yeah.

Well, how did that kind of reframing help to heal your relationship with faith and spirituality that you went through?

Do you know what it.

The whole journey towards writing the thesis, which is the actual idea.

And then I graduated from seminary right when Covid happened.

So I had spent six years in part time study looking forward to my graduation and looking forward to defending my thesis in person to a whole bunch of people looking at me and asking me for question, you know, questions about what my topic was.

You see where I'm going with this?

It was all about me.

Even though I was writing about personal eschatology and letting go of me, all I could think about was me, right.

And when Covid happened, I nearly lost my mind.

Like, how could you, God, I've been working for you for all this time and you're taking away all the rewards from me.

You know, I mean, I know this sounds crazy and I'm kind of overdoing it, but what happened was I was taking a class that last semester called Ignatian Exercises.

And part of the Ignatian Exercises is to examine oneself.

And so I, when the timing was, dare I say, meant to be perfect.

Yeah, the, I had to.

The, the, they sent us home and we had to start doing zoom classes in March.

That's when that all happened.

And it was in April that they were telling us there's not going to be a graduation.

Like people were thinking it was going to be three weeks and it ended up, you know, we.

Well, we all know.

I remember that.

Yeah, I remember that.

And so I wasn't going to have a graduation, I wasn't going to have my thesis in person.

Defense.

I was so upset and so angry and so self pitying.

And so I thought, you know what?

I'm going to take this through the exam and I'm going to, I'm going to do this for my class.

Because I had to do it for a class anyway.

And what I saw when I held that mirror up to my face was really ugly.

And I recognized and that's why the book came later, after the thesis, because I recognized in that moment that in those six years while, yes, I.

I felt called.

I felt like I, you know, God had called me to seminary to learn these things.

What I recognized was that I was doing it for me.

I wasn't doing it for him.

And I needed to die again.

To that piece of me that needed to get an A.

That.

That piece of me that needed to know more than anybody else about God, to that piece of me that was trying to show my dad, still.

My dad who died seven years, 16 years prior to me graduating, you know, I was still trying to somehow become something that I wasn't.

You know, I'm merely a vessel.

And however God chooses to use that vessel, that's not up to me.

You know, the.

The five loaves and two fishes is a beautiful analogy, and I can't take credit for that.

I watched the show the Chosen.

I don't know if you watch it, but the creator of the Chosen had named his company 5 and 2 because he recognized that for so long he was trying to control the outcome of everything that he was doing.

And he realized that he just needed to provide the five loaves and the two fish and whatever outcome God chose for that was God's choice, not his.

And in.

And that not a coincidence.

But, you know, I wanted to put the book into the first book that I wrote.

I, of course, I wanted to make loads of money and become famous and be on Oprah and all that kind of crap, you know, and guess what?

I wasn't.

I think it sold maybe 300 copies if.

If that, you know.

But I've had more than one person tell me how much it helped them.

And isn't that the whole point?

That's the whole.

Yeah.

You know, and so when I.

When my thesis advisor asked me what I wanted this to be, what I wanted the book to be, I said, I just want someone else to not have fear of the end times the way that I did.

Because I sat in that fear for so long.

And when it became personal, when it became Jesus returning for me, and not just once.

He keeps coming back every time I need him to come back and put that mirror up in front of my face and say, jessica, stop it.

Just stop it.

And then once I stop and start to clear off those barnacles, then I'm open again to be the vessel that he can use.

But I have to keep.

I have to keep letting go of those things.

Amen.

Your book uses intertwines your personal story with that of Nicodemus and Lazarus and the apostle Paul.

What inspired you to connect your experiences with these particular biblical figures?

Well, Nicodemus I can't take credit for, because that was my.

I.

I did a directed study specifically on eschatology before I wrote my thesis.

And that professor took me right to Nicodem.

He's like, you've got to study this guy and his conversation with Jesus about being born again.

And I never would have gone there on my own because I was not a big fan of that.

That verse because I felt it was very overused and people didn't understand it.

And so I have to give credit to that professor for taking me to Nicodemus.

And I.

I adore Nicodemus now.

Like, I feel so a kinship with him, you know, because it.

It's sort of.

I love when Jesus says to him, you're a teacher.

You're a teacher, and you don't understand these things.

Like, you know.

But that's how I feel most of the time, you know, like I'm supposed to know things.

Now I have a master's degree in theology, and I feel like all I know is how much I don't know.

You know, it's just craziness.

So that's where that came from.

Lazarus was.

I've always known the story, but my dear friend who I dedicate the book to, he passed away.

He was the chaplain where I worked, who also encouraged me to go to seminary.

He connected Lazarus to the recovery angle.

How Jesus raises Lazarus, but then he looks to the community around him and says, unbind him.

Jesus doesn't go and unbind him.

He looks to the community of people and says, unbind him.

Mainly which is what happens in recovery.

We look to each other.

It's a community of people that help to get those burial cloths off of us so that we can move freely again.

And so that's where Lazarus came from.

And then when I was working with my thesis professor, he basically said to me, goes, you know, the transformation of Paul would be a great.

From Saul to Paul would be a great ending to.

Because those were the three guys I used in my thesis.

He's like, this would be a great.

You need to study some Paul stuff.

Because I really think that his transformation is a lot.

And what.

What I recognized in his transformation is that he.

He never met the.

As far as we know, he never met Jesus, the human in person.

Right?

He'd only heard of him.

So his personal Eschatology truly was that Jesus showed up and said, guess what?

You're blind and now you're mine.

You know, we're going to change the way you're doing things, buddy.

And his life went boom.

Complete 180, you know.

And so it was once those guys put those guys in front of me.

I went, oh, yeah, duh.

How could I not have seen this?

It's so.

It seems so clear now.

So again, it's not about what Jessica came up with.

It's about what she was open to receiving from these people who wanted to help her get there, which I absolutely love that because I didn't.

I mean, I wrote this book, I sat down and wrote it, but it came from so many different wonderful spiritual mentors that, including Jesus, that I can't really take credit for it.

And that's one of the things I love about it, is that it's not about Jessica.

It's about, I want somebody to not have fear, you know, and to be able to receive Jesus in his second coming to them.

Amen.

Well, with Higher Power now published, are there other writing projects or areas of study that you're currently working on?

Yes, actually.

Long story short, I worked in the field of higher education for 30 years.

I was doing research for the behind the scenes fundraising.

I never actually went out and asked for the money, but I did all the research for the people who did.

And I just.

My husband and I.

I went to my husband about two years ago and I said, I would really like to just really make a go with this writing ministry.

And at the time, he was not down for it, so to speak.

He was like, no, I want to retire.

My husband's a little older than I am, and he's like, no, I want to retire.

I don't think we can do it, financially speaking.

And, you know, and that's where it was.

Some things transformed in our marriage.

God is amazing, the way he works things out for us.

I continue to pray and do my thing, write the book, try to get it published, which was another long journey that was really a struggle.

And things started to not go well where I was working.

And that started probably around January of this year, this.

And it just kept getting worse and worse and worse.

And finally my husband said to me in September, when we got home from our vacation, we go on a vacation in September every year.

And I came back to yet another person being fired that should not have been fired.

And he said to me, you know what, Jess, just leave.

Just do it.

He's like, if not now, when?

Make a go of it.

See what happens.

The book had just gotten published, like I had just found a publisher.

And the fact that I had the faith of my husband gave me the courage to actually make that break.

Because after 30 years of having health insurance and an income, that was very scary to think, oh, you know, I'm going to have to go on his health insurance now and I'm not going to have an income.

What's this going to look like?

It's scary.

And at the same time, I have more peace in, in my heart today than I've ever had.

And I have no idea where this is going to go, you know, but, but so I'm, so I'm doing that.

I'm, I'm.

My next book that I would really like to get out.

It's the, the working title is Sun S O N Sunbathing.

And what I'm doing with it is I'm, I'm meditating on things that Jesus said and then I'm writing meditative writings on those and have questions for the reader to answer.

So like a, a meditative book with a journal component to it.

Since that has been such a huge part of my own personal growth, I want to share that with others.

And now you're helping others to find their own spiritual direction.

Can you explain for our listeners what that is and how you go about helping them do that?

Yes, it's a spiritual direction.

I, I didn't even know existed until I got to seminary and I needed a one credit class for something and somebody said, here, take individual spiritual direction.

It's really easy.

There's no final.

You just have to learn about it a little bit and, and write a journal, you know.

So I was like, oh great, I can do that.

And I, I was wowed by it.

Spiritual direction is a relatively young profession.

Profession with bunny ears around the word profession for lay people.

It's been done by Catholic priests for hundreds and hundreds of years.

But it's basically what, you know, the elevator pitch is.

I'm, I'm sitting with someone and I'm holding the space with them as they journey with their higher power.

And so I'm there to.

It's very hard for us to see things when we're right in the middle of them.

Yeah.

But when there's someone with us who is non biased really, you know, not part of our own little journey, it's easy for them to go, well, wait a minute, did you see where God.

Or to ask questions that lead someone to even finding it themselves.

And so that's.

It's not counseling.

A lot of people thinks it's counseling.

It's not counseling.

It's just basically walking with someone on their journey and helping them to see things that they may be blinded to or they may not be able to see yet.

Jessica, this has been so interesting.

I know you've probably sparked a lot of questions in the minds of some of our listeners.

If someone to ask you a question, get in touch, receive more information, how can they do that?

How can someone get in touch with you?

It's so easy.

There's a contact contact form on my website.

It's Jessica L.

Morris.com and that's the easiest way to find me.

And the books are both available on Amazon.

Amen.

I'll put links all this in the show notes below.

Amen, folks.

Jessica Morris has shown us that the concept of personal eschatology is more than just an idea.

It is a transformative journey of renewal and faith.

And through her story and insights that she shares through her book, Highest Power or Higher Power?

One Woman's Journey of Personal Eschatology, she invites us to confront our own challenges, heal from our own past, and embrace our our own deeper relationship with God.

And I want to encourage you.

Drop down the show notes right now.

Click the links right there.

Get in touch with Jessica, ask your questions, be sure to subscribe to her blog and definitely, most definitely, click the link to order her book Higher Powered.

Amen.

I mean, just consider how your own personal journey like Jessica described could lead to a personal awakening and a renewed sense of purpose in your life, your ministry, your career, and how impactful that will be on your family as well.

Amen.

Just drop down the show notes right now.

Click the links right there.

Reach out to Jessica.

Amen.

Jessica, I want to thank you again for taking time out of your busy schedule.

Come and join us today.

Explain all about your practice and your book Higher Power.

I do appreciate it so much.

Oh, thank you, Pastor Bob.

It's been a pleasure, folks.

That's all the time we have for today for Jessica Morris Marcellus passed about reminding you to be blessed, all that you do.

Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Kingdom Crossroads podcast.

Please subscribe to our podcast so you can be notified when another episode is published.

Please visit our website@www.podcastersforchrist.com that web address again is www.podcastersforchrist.com.

for more information, until next time, be blessed in all that.

Sat.