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Lisa Woolfork

Lisa Woolfork is an associate professor of English specializing in African American literature and culture. Her teaching and research explore Black women writers, Black identity, trauma theory, and American slavery. She is the founder of Black Women Stitch, the sewing group where Black lives matter. She is also the host/producer of Stitch Please, a weekly audio podcast that centers on Black women, girls, and femmes in sewing. In the summer of 2017, she actively resisted the white supremacist marches in her community, Charlottesville, Virginia. The city became a symbol of lethal resurging white supremacist violence. She remains active in a variety of university and community initiatives, including the Community Engaged Scholars program. She believes in the power of creative liberation.

Sahara Clemons

Sahara Clemons is a multimedia artist and designer born in Washington D.C and based in Charlottesville, Virginia. Clemons revels in the fluidity of artistic mediums and interweaves painting, textiles, and dance in her creative process. Her work explores the intersection of race and gender and provides commentary on the socio-political forces that shape identity. Her work has been shown at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, Second Street Gallery, The Bridge Progressive Arts Institute, and McGuffey Art Center. Clemons is a YoungArts alumni and is currently pursuing a Bachelor of Fine Arts Degree from Rhode Island School of Design.

Insights from this episode:

• How to go from ‘sketch’ to ‘stitch’
• The techniques behind textile manipulation
• The importance of defining your purpose when doing creative work
• Tips for overcoming your fear of making mistakes and taking chances
• Being creative when you don’t have a lot of resources

Quotes from the show:

• “I feel like I’m a very conceptual person when it comes to making, and I think it always starts off with the story. Mainly I think the core aspect of that is making it personal and authentic to my journey as not just an artist, but as a person.” – Sahara Clemons, Stitch Please, Episode #202 [05:53]
• “I think too often we think about sewing or fashion and manufacturing, but that’s not all that you’re doing and this is one of the reasons I think that fashion is art. The same things that we see in art, or the things that go into making art, go into making the garments that we ultimately see.” – Lisa Woolfork, Stitch Please, Episode #202 [08:51]
• “What I appreciate about fashion is that idea of community-building and bringing people into the clothing.” – Sahara Clemons, Stitch Please, Episode #202 [11:35]
• “I wanted the collection to go through the transition of a person’s mindset when it comes to body exploration… knowing that it is a healing process rather than, ‘this is okay, my scars are okay.’ With all of society and you yourself, it’s hard to feel that way and it’s really challenging to go through that process, and that’s what I wanted to share. That it’s more about this healing and embracing a new perspective of yourself rather than an immediate dopamine rush of what it is, because it is hard sometimes to let go.” – Sahara Clemons, Stitch Please, Episode #202 [25:40]
• “I paralleled [pearls] with this idea of feeling like your body is an antagonizing force. Seeing how you can turn that around and how that creates in yourself this beauty and thing you have to overcome with yourself is a powerful journey that ends up being very beautiful.” – Sahara Clemons, Stitch Please, Episode #202 [35:40]

Resources Mentioned:

• Sahara’s first appearance on the Stitch Please podcast
• Supima Design Competition
• CLO computer-assisted 3D design program

This week’s episode is sponsored by AccuQuilt

Stay Connected:

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Facebook: Stitch Please Podcast

Lisa Woolfork

Instagram: Lisa Woolfork

Twitter: Lisa Woolfork

Sahara Clemons

Website: Sahara Clemons

Instagram: sgcoriginals

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Lisa Woolfork 0:10

Hello stitchers. Welcome to Stitch Please. The official podcast of Black Women Stitch, the sewing group where Black lives matter. I'm your host, Lisa Woolfork. I'm a fourth generation sewing enthusiast with more than 20 years of sewing experience. I am looking forward to today's conversation. So sit back, relax, and get ready to get your stitch together.

Lisa Woolfork 0:37

Hey, friends, hey. It's Lisa from the Stitch Please podcast. And as I say every week this is a very special episode because this episode is with a repeat guest y'all! And, I talked with her at the beginning of her time as a student at the Rhode Island School of Design, also known as RISD, one of the most prestigious design institutions in the country, if not the world. She was starting her first year at RISD, and now she is graduated RISD, left RISD in the dust, and jumped into New York Fashion Week with her first collection with Supima. She is an artist, a designer, and an incredible talent. Welcome Sahara Clemons, back to the Stitch Please podcast. Welcome back, Sahara.

Sahara 1:26

Thank you. And thank you for that amazing introduction. I was surprised by my own livelihood and my small, humble legacy that I've created. But it is great to hear it, hear it from you and to speak with you about it.

Lisa Woolfork 1:41

Well, you make it easy to sing your praises, you make it easy, because you make such stunning work. And I have been fortunate to know Sahara from her student days here in Charlottesville, Virginia, as an artist who was doing public art, doing murals, having a studio practice at one of the local art centers. She has exhibited widely here and elsewhere. And so it's been really wonderful. Let me ask the question I ask everybody, what is your sewing story? Can you talk about how or when sewing and apparel became something you knew you were very interested in?

Sahara 2:19

It started off when Whole Foods was at a totally different location in Charlottesville, right by I think the DSW. And there was a small bookstore there, as well as this place that has now unfortunately, and very sadly, is no longer here. But Le Fabrique

Lisa Woolfork 2:36

Le Fabrique. Pour one out for Le Fabrique---

Sahara 2:40

---[laughs] Exactly---

Lisa Woolfork 2:40

---Le Fabrique. Yes.

Sahara 2:42

Carla was the O.G. She is definitely an amazing person. So we would walk there frequently. And I just kind of got out of doing soccer and sports and all that. I mean, it came back in later. But I was looking for another thing to do. And I saw the window. And I was like, well, this might be interesting. And so my mom took me in. She was like, you know, is this something you want to do? And this is me, yeah I think seven or eight years old? And I'm like, yeah, let's give it a go. So that's where it started. My first project was a very flamboyant zebra pajamas, which I still have. Which is very funny to see all of my interesting previous design projects, which might be a bit different from my current aesthetic, but definitely some good nostaliga. But yeah, ever since then, I've been in and out of sewing and getting more into painting. And then when I finally got into college, I was like, you know, this is where I wanna settle in. Because I feel like I can incorporate all the things that I'm interested in this very kind of artistic and approachable and accessible narrative that fashion brings.

Lisa Woolfork 3:45

Sahara 5:40

That's definitely a very packed question.

Lisa Woolfork 5:43

I know right? Answer it in 30 seconds. I want a good soundbite for the show. So just say to me, it's a 1-2-3 process. Chip, chop, done.

Sahara 5:50

Exactly, exactly. I definitely feel like I'm a very conceptual person when it comes to making. And I think it always starts off with the story. And mainly, I think the core aspect of that is making it personal and authentic to my journey as not just an artist but as a person. And so with this particular collection, I was looking at my experience with eczema. I've always had eczema. However, I had a recent breakout couple years ago, which really kind of shifted how I felt about myself and my body, and specifically how I had my relationship changed with fashion and how I couldn't wear some of my clothes, because it would increase the kind of perspiration which would lead into irritation of my skin. And I had to cover up. I bought things to specifically cover up and all that kind of just really took a toll. And with this collection called Skin Deep, it was looking at how that related to moments of building intimacy and connection and that kind of desire of those things. But feeling like your body is a cage rather than facilitating that journey for you in a positive way. And so that's kind of the light of the collection, which was tacking on to a previous collection I just did for my thesis that I wanted to continue to explore that in a more eveningwear stage, which Supima was providing. And so that was really great. But I will say to get in specifics of how the concept leads into sketching, it really is a lot of different tactics, I would say, specifically with aparallel, because it can be sketching, but there's a point when it comes down to when you're illustrating that you really need to see the physical. And there's a disconnect on what the reality of what you're trying to imagine is when you're illustrating. So once I moved from illustrating things that I see, you know, I really am liking this idea and wanting to see what this texture would look like in real life, then we move on to a draping or textile manipulations and seeing how those swatches look. And it could even be like you know what, I want to scrap that original sketch idea because what I did here, too, is much more interesting, if you branch off of it a little bit and then recenter yourself and creating the final iterations of what you're doing. So I think there's always, I find that in my work, it is best to go in and out from different processes of ideation to really come up with a feel is best, because some things can just be a little bit limited.

Lisa Woolfork 8:16

Yes, I appreciate that so much. Because what I hear you saying is this is much more about process than about a product. That what you are engaged in is when you start sketching, you're not saying okay, this is the sketch and I have to do it this way because I have drawn this thing. Sounds like even when you're drawing and sketching, you are leaving room for yourself to change. It sounds as if the sketch is just a way to kind of trap or to document an idea in time, but also giving yourself space to change it. I think that's really very powerful. I think too often we think about maybe sewing or fashion and manufacturing. What that's not at all what you're doing. And this is one of the reasons I think that fashion is art because the same things that we see in art, or the things that go into making art, go into making the garments that we ultimately see. And you have just provided us with some really great backstory and some behind the scenes of the process. Do you remember when you were designing your collection for your thesis, did you have any moments of profound change as you were working through it? Was there a piece that you sketched or designed that maybe you thought you were going to include in your thesis collection but ended up being totally different?

Sahara 9:29

Yeah, definitely. I would say to give a brief background of the collection, I was working with the models that I chose. I believe I did a six slip collection and each of them, prior to the end result we had a sort of share circle talking about those ideas of skin and what their personal skin journey, where mine was eczema, but I wanted to learn about them. And they created a moment of customization and collaboration within the process of making the thesis collection. And so I would say that there was one particular look where I wanted there to be pants and I couldn't quite figure out how I wanted to design them. I knew the story I wanted to tell, which was that this person was a skater, and was thinking about these wounds that happened on the knee or scrapes that would happen when doing skating movements, and how that would work out and how I wanted to translate that into some sort of textural aspect on the pant, but I just couldn't hit the nail on the head on it. And so I think going back to the idea of doing different tactics that like I would immediately just do fast paced sketching, 30 second sketchings of it, or just going digital and creating mock ups of it. Flow is a really great tool that I have been utilizing for the past couple years. And I find that to be a really great app resource. For people who don't know, it's a computer assisted design program, which allows you to 3D model apparel design using patterns, and you can see how it looks on a person, pretty okay. And so I think once I got into that there was a lot of experimentation that happened to work out where I could finally have that aha moment. But yeah, I think there was definitely a lot of factors that I wanted to bring in to the collection that were really important, which made it very challenging to realize my vision, but also very well worth it and why I like this industry in the first place, which is bringing in my own story, but recognizing that this is an industry that is for people and the collective. I mean, that's my personal way. I know many people have different ways of interpreting fashion as it being more of a solo journey and their artistic vision. But what I appreciate about fashion for myself is that idea of community building and bringing in people into the clothing. And so I really wanted that to happen in my thesis collection, and having conversations bringing in their own style. I asked what do you like to wear, like, give me a mood board of what you'd like to wear and let me see what I can meld into my own design to make something that you would enjoy wearing. And so yeah, I think having different aspects of community and also looking more towards what the industry is about. And so we're bringing in these ideas of sustainability and how we can incorporate those waste reducing methods of making was also something I wanted to talk about, too. And combining the idea of skin and clean fabrics or natural fibers with sustainability and doing knitting as the way of articulating the collection was really important. Seeing how I can create work that is intentional, but doesn't feel forced, doesn't feel like greenwashing, like, this is the thing that I feel like I can do at my time and what I have and the resources I'm given. And of course there's things that you learn in the process, well, this might have been a better way but at least you're thinking about it in a way that feels like concept. And the overall objectives are melding together, they don't seem to be so separate.

It's really wonderful because the way that your work is operating is that it's inviting us to think about something that we all have, its our largest organ, your skin is your largest organ. And you're allowing us to think about it in such a way that goes beyond, I think, the way many of us do think about it. Thinking about skin as protection, or skin in a racial context, of course, or skin the way that you're talking about it with eczema or injury or wounds. It really is such a beautiful and complex way to imagine it. I say so because it seems as though makeup and makeup culture and beauty culture thinks about skin in such a way that really the only thing you think about is somehow hiding the fact that you have pores, you know. And I'm like, if you don't have pores, they need to breathe. You need to have pores so that your skin can breathe! What? When you said that you had to shift in your own style because of your eczema that you wanted to keep your skin healthy. And in order to treat the eczema, it meant that you couldn't wear certain things, not because you didn't want people to see your skin necessarily, but because you didn't want to sweat and activate what could be something that was making you very uncomfortable, even more uncomfortable. So this idea that somehow the way that we wear clothes, the way that we move through the world as a body draped in garments, becomes something worth considering. And that is something that you have been studying for the last four years. And I really appreciate how you took this collection and did it in a way that kind of exposes and explodes those things that are very much, I think, under examined. And so I wanted to see if you could talk a little bit about the Supima project and the team? This is a photo from your IG of you looking really adorable. Are these the pants that you designed? Is this them, the pants with the knees?

Yeah, these were the pants that I made for that individual in my thesis collection. And those also got a lot of positive feedback and I really liked them myself. So it was one of the things like well, it was for a body type that wasn't my own and I was like wow, I wish I could fit these pants because I still have them but I can't so like, you know what, why don't I just make my own again for this show---

---Oh---

---and so these are kind of my iteration of it. And stay tuned, cause these are definitely something I hope to produce long term for people.

Yes! Now, is this denim? Tell me about the fabric. The whole thing is very cute. So the pants themselves, what is the fabric? Can you walk me through the textures and the materials that you use for these?

My whole outfit is actually using the Supima fabrics that were given to me as part of the competition. So the top is the Supima cotton twill. And then the bottom is the Supima indigo denim. I gathered the fabric, they're kind of meant to be a combination of like a jean and a sweat pant together cause I wanted to have this idea of comfort, right? And we were talking about skin and skin issue and how we can feel comfortable on the inside and the outside when we're wearing clothing. Not that it just is fashionable but how do we feel? Do we have to immediately take it off at the end of the day? It's like, oh, well, good thing I'm not in this tight thing or whatever. Now I can relieve myself.

It's like when I go home and I throw the bra on the floor. It's like off go the shoes, off go the bra as soon as I get in the house. And I'm not going back outside either cannot put that thing back on. No way.

So it's like why don't I try to make something that can be not as tight fitting; a jean that can mesh to like your body changing a little bit. So there is an elasticated backing on the waistband. And they're very nice and billowy and voluminous. And so for these ones, I had a lace trim on the knee patch. But on the original ones, they do have the machine knitting swatch to close it in. So I am definitely thinking about incorporating different ways of having that be a detail in different fabrics or textures and how I could incorporate scraps or something in that detail. And then just to go a little bit in the top. It's a reference to one of the pieces that we'll look at a bit later with this. I don't know I like to call it the dumpling breast [laughs]. I don't know, something about it looks like a dumpling to me. So, its like---

---oh, gosh---

--- I don't know.

That's great cause who doesn't like dumplings? Like what?

Exactly! Exactly! So its the dumpling. That was the look [laughs].

I love it. I love it so much.

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And so is this group here? Is this the photo that Supima took of you all at the show? Is that what we're looking at here? I say this every week, but if you are not a Patreon subscriber, why not? Because you get to see these really amazing images because it's fantastic. Like this one right here. Can you talk about this illustration? So what we're seeing here is your illustration of this woman and she seems to be kind of in suspended animation. She seems to be floating. I mean, I'm just describing what I see. And then what we have right next to it is Sahara actually stitching some details on the dress. Can you talk about what this illustration is? Or maybe just talk a bit about, you've already shared with us nicely about the collection overall. When you went to execute your four pieces, because you did a four piece collection. Right? What is happening in this illustration? This is beautiful.

Thank you. It's a five piece collection.

A five piece collection. Thank you very much. Thank you.

No, all good. It's so hard to talk about this collection. But I'm glad that we're able to do this a long duration timeframe because there are so many layers to it and what I'm thinking about and so it's so hard to give that little elevator speech of how things came to be. But it's great to be able to podcast so like I'm able to talk about a bit more in depth. So in addition to the skin layer, the way I wanted to explore that in my senior thesis collection, it was looking more towards land, nature, trees, and bark and things like that. In this eveningwear collection, I was looking at more oceanic life as reference to skin textures such as corals, or like, creeks or rocks and water textures. Doing a little bit of play on this idea of when it comes to the intimacy aspect of the collection, and like sensuality. This idea of wetness, and all of that body of water, that kind of trickling sensation of being in water. But also, this idea of tapping into desire and sexuality when it comes to this idea of wetness was things I wanted to play with, as well. And so with this particular piece, this is the second look in the collection. And the first illustration that I have, she's on the edge of the shore, and she's dipping her toes in like she's about to go in, but she's on the shore and so this is the second piece where she's diving into the water and embracing this soakedness. So I thought this was my idea of the wet dress. Many people have had their little versions of what a wet dress is. And so this is my version, which is inspired by rock formations and creeks washing through. To do so, I created these padded denim patches, which I then hand sewed onto this machine knit armatures. So it's a bit like a very simple tube dress but not so simple in the fact that I had to hand sew each of these denim pieces to it. And a fun fact is that this was not the original design of it. For the muslin fitting, I completely, after I had the muslin fitting I completely scrapped that look. It was a similar in concept and the idea but it wasn't pushing what I wanted it to give. It wasn't giving the idea of the drama in the sculptural aspect that I wanted in the piece. And so I was like, you know what, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to scrap that and take a little leap of faith and do a swipe and make a machine knit dress and then see what I can do with the denim, stuff the denim, and create these batting pieces and just tack it on the form some pins and those like, you know, this is interesting. It was tough. This one was the hardest one I feel like in the sense of ---

--- Really? This one was the hardest one?. Are you kidding me? Wow. Because y'all gotta see the other ones. The pink one, the pink one for me was just like, whoa!

No, yeah, but I think because I decided to go away from my original design. And that this involves so much kind of composition making as I was doing it, like I would have to do it for a bit, like a few hours, and hand sew things and then be like, you know what, this looks good. Or I have to take a break and sit with it. There was constant fear of like, is this even good? Like, does this just look like a craft project? I don't know what's going on. Because we also have mentors that we have from RISD. Jamall Osterholm was my mentor for my RISD representation. Along with that we have Supima mentors, as well, that we have weekly check ins with and so I didn't tell them that I was going to change the look. I was like, you know what, if I'm scrapping it, I'm just going to do that myself and not have any pushback on it. Because I felt deeply that that was the best choice at the time. But then before we had the meeting, I was like, you know, best choice. I'm feeling very anxious about what this looks like. And so they had very positive things to say about it, when we had the meeting are like, yes, this looks great. And so this is actually the one for my showing in Paris, which will happen in a bit where they'll be showcasing everyone's work. And so this was the one of the collection that they chose. So a very kind of roller coaster moment of this particular piece. But yeah, it was great in the end, and I was really happy with it.

I love that. I truly love that. You were so concerned about it. And you were like, I don't think this looks good. Am I doing the right thing? And then it turned out to be, according to them at least, what was the best of what you had to offer. And that's why it's going with you for Paris for fashion week over there. That's really wonderful. Let's talk about this, the pink one. Because I think the phrase you use was textile manipulation. And can you say a little bit more about textile manipulation? Is that something you, like, is that a class you take at RISD? Or is it a technique or a practice that you use throughout all of your coursework, and ultimately, it's landed here now?

Textile manipulations is something that you just use throughout your coursework. Essentially, it is just how you choose to manipulate the fabric. Whether that can be ruching, mocking, leading, bunching, so anything that you adding certain textures or mixing fabrics together, it is basically what you're creating interest in with the fabric. So in this case, it was using elastic to create a ruching detail for this jumpsuit.

Okay. And you said you used a last for it?

Elastic. So it's like a quarter inch of black elastic. And so this one was also quite labor intensive---

--- I mean---

---It got less [laughs].

And so I'm looking at the sketch. So the sketch for me is giving coral. It seems to be giving like that famous person on a shell. Is it Aphrodite or somebody? So she's standing and there's this beautiful coral that's reaching around her. What was going on for you with this sketch?

This was the fourth look. And so after she's kind of been soaked in at the top of the water, she goes down. And then there's the look before that, which is the swimmer, which I think we'll get into a bit. And then this is the coral where she's at a deeper part, and bringing in the feels of the ocean and her surroundings and kind of being melded and embracing this textural moment that's happening, which is also in reference to the texture of skin and kind of embracing and going through a process of healing and metamorphosis. I wanted the collection to go through a transition of a person's mindset when it comes to body exploration. And knowing that it is a process, I always take that into value, we're to talk about it because when I say like, oh, it's just about embracing skin textures. It is about more so like healing and a shift in that mindset and getting better and exploring your body and feeling the positive nature of it and knowing that it is a healing process rather than this immediate lik,e this is okay, my scars are okay because with all society and you're yourself, it's hard to feel that way. And it's really challenging to go through that process. That's what I wanted to share. That it's more about this healing and embracing a new perspective of yourself rather than immediate dopamine rush of like, what it is to be around cause it is hard, sometimes, to let go. Like letting go is hard.

I'm looking at the detail right now. Can you talk a bit about the fabric itself? The color seems very much, I keep thinking like pinkish coral. I keep thinking about the waves of the human brain and these kind of things that I'm seeing in some of the pleats or some of the way that it's ruched and gathered here. Tell us a little bit about the material that Supima provided for this look.

Yeah, so this is the Supima velveteen. And so with our process, they give us one yard scraps or cut offs of the fabric which we can play around with but it's all white and so we give them the Pantone for them to have it dyed at a different place. And then they have it shipped to us with the dye fabrics. This was kind of my favorite thing to open up to see the final product. I was like oh, it's like the perfect pink lemonade and since everything this summer was Barbie, Barbie, Barbie. I was like this is so Barbie. I was like I could imagine this in that kind of Barbie debut or something like that. I was very excited the most about this fabric. And it definitely made the textile manipulation much more interesting than with the muslin because I felt this fluffiness and the ooey, gooey-ness of the fluff too, was like I don't know, it was really great. Yeah, I was really happy with how it turned out.

It's really quite beautiful. And you said that you gather all of this using black elastic underneath as part of the to control it?

Yeah, so it was very interesting to pattern cause what is great about the CAD program I was using is that I can figure out how big I need the pattern to be and how long I need it to be and simulate how much elastic I would need for it to be the length of the pant leg or like the natural pant leg. So it's like, oh, if I make all of these lines and like take 60% of what the original length is, then that will be the length of what a normal pant look like. So that was really great to figure out cause I feel like that would have taken a lot of back and forth hand doing it to see where the length was going to be a bit or at least to see how it was gonna look like. But yeah, so the top piece here is all elastic in the pants. And then what I call the dumpling breast detail is then elasticated and then folded in to hand sew it to create this little like kind of boop.

I just love it. I really think it's such a powerful testimony to the ways that you know, skin, the way that creativity, the way that we equip ourselves to move through the world. I really think that this is such a lovely example. This was the one I thought was the hardest to make. This was the one that I thought, this clearly had to be the hardest one. We're looking at the piece. It's this gorgeous yellow piece. I have it here on the slide here for the Patreon folks to see. And I did it in triplicate, because I loved it that much. Talk a bit about this look and where it appears in the sequence.

Yeah, so this is the finale look. This is like called The Transcended, where she's reached this point of Goddess status, but also wearing herself on her sleeve, wearing these deformities, these in and out stretches and pleats and forms all on her. So it's still be something that's very, hopefully, beautiful to others. At least I was very happy with how it turned out. But yeah, this was actually, I wouldn't say the easiest, but it was, I did it in the order I created them in the order where I knew it was going to be the fastest to make so this is the one that was the fastest to make. I would say that in terms of patterning, it was a bit difficult because I had a very strong vision of what I wanted it to look like, and specifically the chest detail, but the original muslin, I did two muslins. It wasn't working out and so I thought the best way was to actually just drape it again, and then take it out. And so the pattern looks very interesting. In the front, it kind of looks like a sword, like a hook sword a bit---

---I don't know how to describe it---

---Yeah, a little crescent with a long handle at the end. So it's very, very interesting, very fun to get those pleats nice and round. But a lot of it is all just very sporadic. They're about 10 times the size that they are on the picture. The patterns are very large and very big. But once I scrunch them up, it becomes this. But there was no specific patterning inside the big armatures, or the big, like staple pieces of it. It was all just random folding. The only ones that don't have random folds is that chest detail, which was pretty important.

And I'm looking at the chest detail and thinking about the underwater theme. And there is a way in which this looks a bit like gills. It looks a bit like, you know the way that one breathes underwater. I think that that's like another detail to have them around the chest, around the lungs. And what is the material here that we're looking at? I think that Supima works only in cotton, right? Like primarily or only exclusively in cotton. So when we're looking at a piece of cotton, all of these things we've been looking at y'all are made of cotton. And so that is pretty impressive. But tell me about this one. What is the story with this? Is it a denim? Is it a linen? What is this one?

Yeah, this is their cotton, shirting fabric. So with this one, I knew that would be a great fabric to have like a catch the wind or like a windbreaker-esque when she's walking. And also just because it is a cloak that was the lightest fabric that we were given of the fabrics. So that's what I thought would be best for this design.

It really is, it's so magnificent. I can definitely see why this was the last look. Because it really does, I think, put a pin in the larger conversation you've been having. But it's also at the start of a new beginning. That's what looks like to me, like a horizon is walking toward you. It's really beautiful. Now, is this the swimmer? Tell us about this. I love this little one. The illustration on the left is a woman. Well, I will let you describe it. You drew this, you know what it looks like. I'm trying to describe it for people who might be visually impaired and not able to see the images and also those who are not on the Patreon. You should still totally do it. This is weird... the jellyfish, and the little, and the Anglerfish, and all of that. Tell us about what this illustration was and what she meant to you, this swimmer.

Yeah, for all the illustrations, I think it's kind of most evident in this one that I was inspired by this art deco stylizing. I wanted to, I thought that would best hone in that theme of intimacy and romanticism with that art style, which I thought was very interesting. So that was kind of the branching off point of how I created the illustrations. And with this one in particular, I think shows that aesthetic of that most deeply in the design itself of the swimmer, which was inspired by 1940s swimwear. And so, yeah, it's just kind of her journey of exploration in the sea and herself is kind of what I was thinking about what the themes of the illustration. So, I, this one I really just had a fun time with. I thought I'd be very uplifting, have a nice pattern and all like these creatures coming in. So yeah, I thought it would just be a more uplifting and tapping into that idea of fear. But also fun in having going through a healing process and exploring yourself. And kind of getting to know yourself and being more in tune with your body and in love with your body. So, yeah.

I really love it. And I'm glad you mentioned that it was based on the 1940s swimming suits, cause it reminds me that there was a time when people talked about swim suits. They didn't call and swim suits like we do, they call them swimming costumes. And so this really looks like a swimming costume. Like, tell me a bit about the gloves. Unless that's a shrug. And I'm not seeing the back. About like the way that she's got gloves covering her hands. And this shrug seems to go all the way up to just below the shoulders. What's happening there with those details? Why was that important?

Yeah. So I think this is my personal favorite in the collection. Of the ones I've made, this was kind of the one that I wanted to make for myself. So yeah, I definitely very flirty or girly aspects of this piece a lot. And to continue with that theme of playing with batting and quilting, which I really enjoyed that started off with the hand knots in the first look and then the denim patches for that dress and then continuing on to this look. And so I thought that would be a kind of subtle reference to the idea of like bumps and cysts and playing with that. And so yeah, I thought combining the textile manipulations with that storyline, and also with this idea of the swimmer, I thought really beautifully melded the themes that I was trying to talk about with this idea of a romantic connection and striving for that romantic connection but fearing this kind of body that is exploding or protruding outward on the arms or things like that. But also just like my personal aesthetic of feeling very girly and princessy, in a way. I would like to go into a bit, there are pearls and I leave all the girly stuff, the fifth one, but that one in particular was a lot of sewing of the pearls on the gloves. And all of that was inspired by the idea of how pearls are made with this kind of being in a force. Sand being protruding into a clam or oyster and how that kind of is a defense mechanism for it in order to then reveal this amazing pearl or substance. So I paralleled with this idea of feeling like your body is an antagonizing force, but seeing how you can turn that around, and see how that kind of creates in yourself and beauty in this thing that you have to overcome with yourself. I think is a powerful journey that ended up being very beautiful in the end is kind of what I wanted to explore with the entire collection. And so that's kind of the significance of the pearl details that happened throughout.

Absolutely! I think that is very apparent when you look at the detail photo that we have here. The way that you've mixed, it looks like freshwater pearls with you know, ones that are more like rounded. And also thinking about the way that you're talking about skin and bodies and how we're made up of so much water. So thinking about the connection between pearls and skin, is really very powerful. And I love the way you described how a pearl is actually a defense mechanism for the animal that has created it. Like it doesn't want that sand in there. So it does what it can to kind of protect itself from it by making this and it's a new way, I think a powerful way to think about the way that we think of scars and scabs and what the process of healing requires. It's really very beautiful, Sahara. This whole thing, your whole collection is a marvel, as are you. As we get ready to wrap up, I wanted to ask you the question that I ask everybody on the show, and it's the last question we ask. We say that the slogan of the Stitch Please podcast is that we will help you get your stitch together. Sahara Clemons, recent graduate of RISD, fresh off the NYC Fashion Week, and on her way now to Paris for Fashion Week, what would you advise our listeners to help us get our stitch together?

Oh, my god! Okay, that was a big question. I feel like taking what you have, and I think there's always things that I'm noticing now where you can see the beauty in the little things that you might have, the things that you hadn't yet thrown away, or the clothes you hadn't yet thrown away, or the scraps that you kept for the past 10 years or so that you're like, I'm going to make something out of this. And then you're like, you know what, actually, when you have that space, that it feels really good to try to tackle that imaginary project that you thought wouldn't be a reality and just going for it. I think I understand more so the value of clothing and the value of fabric and how much effort it really takes to create and how much to be honest, it can be a financial tool to create these things. And so how you can take what you have and turn it into something that's your own. And which can also just instill more creativity in the process. So I think that wherever you're coming from, either from a more artistic standpoint, to seeing where you would like to ground yourself and your work. I know how it can always be shifting, but kind of taking a moment to I guess, recenter your purpose of your work, I think has been really important. And for those who are looking just from project or a standpoint that I think that it doesn't have to be as difficult in your head as it really is. Cause what I found through this process is that I would be avoiding certain things cause like, I don't know how to do that work. If I don't do this right, it might totally mess up this entire garment. But the thing about that is that if it doesn't work out, there's always ways to fix it. And it's better to just be like, you know what, you're gonna have to do it at some point. Well, I had a deadline, you might not always have a deadline. But I think it is important to have that mindset of like, you know what, just take the leap and you have resources, like the amazing Lisa, who can kind of direct you what to do in those moments. And you're not alone. This is a pretty large community of people. So yeah, that's what I'd say to that.

Oh, that's so wonderful. Sahara Clemons, thank you so much for being with us on the show today. We'll be sure to link your socials as well as that software program that you mentioned in the show notes so that people can follow you, as well as you know, play with some of the tools that you use to make your wonderful, wonderful work. This has been really great. I'm so happy we had a chance to talk as well.

You've been listening to Stitch Please, the official podcast of Black Women Stitch, the sewing group where Black lives matter. We appreciate you joining us this week and every week for stories that center Black women, girls, and femmes in sewing. We invite you to join the Black Women Stitch Patreon community, with giving levels beginning at $5 a month. Your contributions help us bring the Stitch Please podcast to you every week. Thank you for listening. Thank you for your support. And come back next week and we'll help you get your stitch together.