Shownotes
Every sin and emotional issue that stands in the way of our faithfulness to God’s design, and Jesus’ commands, is ultimately a Gospel issue. The Bible teaches that all sin is the outcome of unbelief in God. We can learn to apply the truth about God and the Good News to every area of our lives.
In this episode, Caesar is joined by two different disciple-making practitioners as they talk about how they've learned to speak the good news of the Gospel into their family life and with those in their church. This is a very practical example of Gospel Fluency in action. In This Episode You'll Learn:- How Tina has learned to "gospel" her own heart and areas of unbelief.
- Why taking the time to learn and practice the language of the Gospel is essential.
- The ways Pastor Tim is using his Gospel Fluency in leading the church.
- The importance of learning to speak, live and enjoy the Gospel in ALL of life!
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Discipleship + Mission Made Simple LIVE Training
Transcripts
Even the act of saying to a community and others in your life, Hey, this is going on and I'm not even 100 percent sure what I'm believing here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you help me unpack like what's true of God?
Caesar Kalinowski:And, you know, or go the other direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, okay, this just happened today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wasn't good, or it's not even happened yet, but here's where my heart is.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm all locked up and my heart rate's up and I'm, you know, I'm getting angina, you know, help me.
Caesar Kalinowski:What am I not believing to be true right now about myself?
Caesar Kalinowski:or this person.
Caesar Kalinowski:But what is true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Why is it true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's now we go to the next question because look at all, look at all this stuff that God's done and Jesus did at the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:And why does he do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because this is what God's like.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know what, you're creating his image to be just like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, well, I just read, even just as we talk, I just feel like, yeah.
Announcer:Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
Announcer:In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
Announcer:This is the stuff your parents, pastors, and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
Announcer:And now, here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, how are you doing this week?
Caesar Kalinowski:We're good here in Washington State.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's been a pretty rainy week.
Caesar Kalinowski:Kind of living up to its reputation here, though.
Caesar Kalinowski:It doesn't really rain as much as everybody thinks, but the sun is out now.
Caesar Kalinowski:So life's good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Tina and I are getting ready to go out tonight with some close friends and our extended family.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we're going to see another sister who's performing locally in a comedy production, sold out all the shows, 19 shows, kind of a local thing in Tacoma.
Caesar Kalinowski:Awesome, looking forward to that, should be fun, and I'm certain we'll run into a bunch of folks we know out and about in Tacoma.
Caesar Kalinowski:All of life is discipleship, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So, awesome, fun.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, I mentioned last week, and now I have all the info and personal invite for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:On Thursday, we'll be hosting a free live training.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is the biggest training I've ever put together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Again, I mentioned it last week, but now I got all the information for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:This training is called Discipleship and Mission Made Simple.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really think that it is and can be.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm not saying that flippantly it's work, but it's not hard.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's really how to live and multiply a lifestyle of discipleship that others will follow.
Caesar Kalinowski:So that be you as a pastor or you leading your family or maybe you're a small group leader or leading a department at your church, whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can give you the full framework and that's what we're going to do in this training.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to give it to you.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's free.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want you to come.
Caesar Kalinowski:And all of that, by the way, is without filling up your schedule or having to employ endless engagement tactics to get everybody involved and, you know, on mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:So on this training, you're going to learn the most common roadblocks that make discipleship and everyday life way harder than it needs to be.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to learn natural rhythms of life that fit discipleship into your existing schedule and family routines.
Caesar Kalinowski:Again, you're going to learn how to motivate people toward disciple making and outreach without relentless carrot and stick sort of methods to get them engaged.
Caesar Kalinowski:Also, I'm going to give you the built in way to naturally identify and multiply new leaders and missional communities.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then this is also going to help you get on the same page with your spouse and family, spiritually and missionally more than ever.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I really want to encourage you to not only grab your spot, but come on and do this together as a spouse, because lightbulbs are going to go on.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I'm going to give you how to enjoy discipleship as a lifestyle with our full everyday disciple framework.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's really the point.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you're going to kind of see all the pieces and how they fit together.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to be a big one.
Caesar Kalinowski:You'll definitely want to get the word out to folks in your church or community groups.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like I said, please come together.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you're married as a spouse, join us for this.
Caesar Kalinowski:You can save your seats at this right now, online training for Thursday, go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash.
Caesar Kalinowski:Simple, EverydayDisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash simple, and I really hope you will join me for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really, I, I want you to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's live.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:So you gotta be there.
Caesar Kalinowski:You want to do it and just go to that page, get registered and we'll send you all the information and make it real easy for you.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I look forward to seeing you on Thursday.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash simple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now today, this is going to be a bit of a unique episode because it's a twofer.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm going to have two different conversations and talk to a couple of friends who have been in coaching with Tina and I, and they are both really awesome disciple making practitioners.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they'll share about their experience in growing in their gospel fluency and specifically connected to how they've learned to use the four questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:We talked about a couple episodes back and some of the effects of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And Tina and I talked about the four questions last episode, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:So check that out.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is really a continuation of the last few episodes.
Caesar Kalinowski:We've really been giving you all the pieces to the gospel fluency picture, just like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:That, uh, training this week is going to be the full framework.
Caesar Kalinowski:So I'm trying to really trying to load you up and go deep.
Caesar Kalinowski:So if you missed those last couple episodes, you might want to, you know, stop, go back, listen to those first and then come on back and continue with me here today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I think it'll make more sense that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so first we're going to be talking to my friend, Tina Moore, different Tina, not my wife, Tina, but Tina Moore.
Caesar Kalinowski:She's a mom and married and they got a bunch of kids.
Caesar Kalinowski:She'll tell you a little bit about that and how she's using it in her neighborhood, her gospel fluency within her family life and local friendships and all that and how it's affecting her.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then the second part of this, you'll meet Pastor Tim Brower.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's a great practitioner, great pastor, been to his community, been with their church, done training.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want to live there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he's going to talk about a little bit about how he's using the four questions and his growing gospel fluency within his church and community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, they're both going to have very, very different experiences this, but I think they're both going to give you some great insights and encouragement for how you can begin to use this sense of gospel fluency growing in your own life as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we'll start out with Tina and then I'll go to Tim.
Caesar Kalinowski:And again, I hope you enjoy this and you learn a lot from it and it encourages you to keep using the four questions and that whole framework and growing in your gospel fluency as well.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right, let's take a listen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, Tina, thanks again for being willing to do this and share some of your own journey and growth in gospel fluency.
Tina Moore:Yeah, it's great to be on.
Tina Moore:Thank you so
Caesar Kalinowski:much.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just to give us a little context, just tell us a little bit about your life and family and just the rhythms of what's going on there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So kind of folks get to know you a little bit.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sure.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:So we've been doing coaching for about two and a half years and it has been.
Tina Moore:Just a constant source of encouragement and change, slow, steady change that I wouldn't trade for anything.
Tina Moore:Real life for us is my husband flies for one of the airlines and is gone a lot.
Tina Moore:So we're kind of juggling his schedule.
Tina Moore:We've got, um, kids in a hybrid school, so doing school at home and in person.
Tina Moore:I've got some health challenges in the mix.
Tina Moore:kind of continual energy issues.
Tina Moore:And we've been in our neighborhood for about seven years and we've got People of Peace that are sharing life with us and we are doing open tables and moving towards a Missional Community.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:We have, like you said, we've known each other for, you know, over two years now and it's It's been such a blast to watch.
Caesar Kalinowski:You and Ryan take what you're learning and watch your gospel fluency grow as you've wrestled down All the stuff in life that everyone, it's just, it's just that maybe you faced a lot of it in the last two, two and a half years.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's been great.
Caesar Kalinowski:So tell us just off the top of your head, what are some of the ways that you've, um, learned to apply the four questions?
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, who is God and what's he done to prove that's true of him?
Caesar Kalinowski:How does that speak into our identity?
Caesar Kalinowski:And then how do we get to live in light of it?
Caesar Kalinowski:What are some of the ways you've learned to apply that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like what kinds of different situations have you used the four questions in?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's start out with your own life and then we'll talk about maybe with others, but how have you used those four questions to, to, you know, see what the gospel says about an issue in your own
Tina Moore:Yeah, well, I went back and actually printed out and looked at the ones I had.
Tina Moore:Sent to you and it was so much fun to see all the different things that, yeah, you know, I had pulled it out and used it for all kinds of stuff.
Tina Moore:I mean, things.
Tina Moore:Mostly things that were some kind of emotional reaction where there was some kind of unsettled this about a situation.
Tina Moore:A lot of it was interpersonal with other people, some things related to school.
Tina Moore:I remember my son was taking a test and he was kind of, I could see how he was doing and he would.
Tina Moore:It's online.
Tina Moore:It was not going well as a placement test.
Tina Moore:And I do free doubt about, you know, really not trusting God with his future and kind of unpack that, using the four questions.
Tina Moore:Most of the time, I start with, uh, in reverse the situation, just as you
Caesar Kalinowski:used the questions, the other direction.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Tina Moore:in reverse.
Tina Moore:Um, so I think maybe moving forward, I'd like to do more preventative like.
Tina Moore:you Establishing myself with a strong reminder of who the Lord is and and then kind of let that trickle through my day
Caesar Kalinowski:You know and the more we use this and this is what you've experienced and we've watched change, you know in your own fluency But also just in your own heart the more we do use the like the four questions the more it's like it's in our head And it doesn't take as long for us when we start to feel a weird negative emotion, like in that instance, or something what's going on with our kids to come up, it's not like we have to wait until the rails came off, the wheels are come off, we're crashing the corner, we're both angry, throwing rocks at them, you know, it's like, more quickly, your mind goes back to some of those truths about who God is, or what's true of us, like, why am I believing this right now?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so it does get, it gets easier and more normative.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because it speaks into our identity over and over and over.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that just levels us out.
Tina Moore:Yeah, absolutely.
Tina Moore:And truly the beliefs have changed.
Tina Moore:I mean, I looked at this stuff and at the time of doing it, I had to like write down God is good because I didn't have that confidence.
Tina Moore:Already present in my mind, in my heart.
Tina Moore:And so as I'm writing it, you know, now I look back and it is, it's there.
Tina Moore:Like I know, I know he's good.
Tina Moore:I don't have to necessarily have the same conversation with myself because.
Tina Moore:It's there.
Tina Moore:The belief is there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:It begins to reframe our whole perspective.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's the whole point because we're being transformed.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we talk a little about when we teach on the gospel and you and I've talked about this, that not only have we been saved right from the penalty of our sin, but we're being saved by the gospel from the power of sin.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what's start, that's what's happening by the renewing of our mind, the reminding, you know, we're getting new minds, new hearts as we move from unbelief to belief.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, how, what are some of the different types of situations where you've used the four questions to think through something, either after it's happened or maybe going into a situation that, uh, with others?
Caesar Kalinowski:in your own life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Moore:One of my favorites was, or just favorite memories of using, it was with my son and he was just super fearful about starting school.
Tina Moore:And so we walked through it, had a lot to do with fear of man.
Tina Moore:And at the end I said, how do you get to live now in light of all these things we've just looked at?
Tina Moore:And he just nailed it.
Tina Moore:And he said, I get to be free.
Tina Moore:And from that point, it was like, He was free in that situation and he just went, you know, walked forward in faith and just started in school and it was just
Caesar Kalinowski:so beautiful.
Caesar Kalinowski:Isn't it wonderful?
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, isn't it wonderful?
Caesar Kalinowski:Cause we all feel those types of things, but if we can replace that with truth and then the course, let's not discount the work of the Holy Spirit, that's at work in your son's heart and your heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And some things are like that where.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, I try to explain this to people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes we've used the four questions with people and they, we've just watched them get set free.
Caesar Kalinowski:Something they were, had a lot of anxiety about or they were even, it was moving them to sinful action or attitudes or relational breaks and they get set free.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sometimes other things because they're more well worn grooves in our heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:It helps in the moment, but then you can see, you can see the person or even in your own heart, you can see yourself slipping back into that lie because it's so well worn.
Caesar Kalinowski:But it's always such a blast and such a, Oh, like this evidence of grace when you see someone just kind of get set free from a situation in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's kind of like it's changed them.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:And you've been with a few neighbors.
Tina Moore:I've had the chance to walk through.
Tina Moore:you know, similar, um, just sitting down and actually going through it with two different neighbors.
Tina Moore:And I noticed there that just them being willing to open up the conversation or, you know, kind of dive into whatever situation it just gave, it built a lot of trust between us and gave me a chance to, to know them more and to pray for them.
Tina Moore:And it just to kind of, our hearts were knit together a lot, just going through it.
Tina Moore:together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that was going to be my next question is what have you seen relationally shift as you've Either prepared your own heart, you know, like what does the gospel even speak into that before I speak to this person or what have you seen shift relationally when you've been able to help good news people, you know, gospel their hearts?
Caesar Kalinowski:What did you know what's been some of your experience
Tina Moore:there?
Tina Moore:Yeah, for sure.
Tina Moore:What I would say is.
Tina Moore:I believe these things for people now.
Tina Moore:So I believe that God is good to my neighbors and I can speak to that when things are happening.
Tina Moore:I remember one of my neighbors came by.
Tina Moore:And she started to speak a lot of, her speeches reflective of a lot of belief shifts, but we were that,
Tina Moore:It didn't, um, that miss the school bus.
Tina Moore:And at the end she said, well, I guess it was God's will for us that we didn't drive her to school today because she had gotten another ride.
Tina Moore:And I thought, wow, just to hear her say that, and that, you know, God's in control of this.
Tina Moore:Um, and she had said a few other things, you know, Oh, God brings people into our life for a reason.
Tina Moore:I'm thinking, wow, I can hear the belief start to come, um, out of her.
Tina Moore:And it's something that I believe.
Tina Moore:for her on her behalf as well.
Tina Moore:Like it's just present in our relationship.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, I have to connect these dots.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is what it's all about.
Caesar Kalinowski:Discipleship is helping people move from unbelief to belief in light of who God is and what he's done and what's true of them and how we get to live.
Caesar Kalinowski:In other words, the gospel, many areas of life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And most of us were raised, there was sort of like one belief shift.
Caesar Kalinowski:Jesus is Lord, say the prayer, wait for heaven.
Caesar Kalinowski:Truth is we're being saved.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're working on our salvation.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is how it happens in, in community with each other, in our own hearts, with our spouses.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, I can also remember a time, Tina, when you, and I hope this is okay that we bring this up, but I can remember one time when you were, you were going back and visiting your parents and there was a, uh, a hoped for planned birthday party.
Caesar Kalinowski:Was it for your dad, I think?
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And he wasn't really wanting it, but others were, but they were kind of putting it on you to make it happen anyway.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I know you had a lot of anxiety and frustration connected to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you were trying to figure out how to love your dad well and not, you know, be God in his life.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I remember we really had to go through the four questions a lot on that.
Caesar Kalinowski:What, what are your, what are your remembrances and what are you willing to talk about with that
Tina Moore:Oh, that was so powerful.
Tina Moore:It was incredible to be reminded, oh, to experience it in community.
Tina Moore:'cause everyone was speaking into the issue in our coaching call.
Tina Moore:And man, I just, you know, wrote down as much as, as much as I could, as fast as I could, and I carried that thing with me and I just worked.
Tina Moore:Fresh, renewed my mind and my heart with those golden nuggets of truth that my story began before my story with my parents ever was, you know, my story began with the Lord and his presence in my life and his grace on me.
Tina Moore:And so, yeah, that just walking through that time with those kind of.
Tina Moore:Like almost like handholds when you're rock climbing, just having those things in place ready to grab onto them was just huge.
Tina Moore:It was huge.
Tina Moore:And it's very few, uh, very few chances to live life with my parents.
Tina Moore:And so it's just, it's really awesome to have just.
Tina Moore:My heart set.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:Ready to
Caesar Kalinowski:go for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oftentimes that relationship between us and our parents or us and siblings, wherever it can be some of the hardest or more frustrating.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yet we desire them so much.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yet oftentimes.
Caesar Kalinowski:There again, there's those well worn grooves and we kind of, we can watch things either because of our own doing or because we didn't avoid things or because we want to be right.
Caesar Kalinowski:We can just see like self self sabotage from both directions.
Caesar Kalinowski:So often you're like, I'm not going to see these people for a while, darn it, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski:And so in this case, to even prepare your own heart, what is the truth of the gospel?
Caesar Kalinowski:in this.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so then how do I get to respond to this, that, this person, this situation?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I can go in with peace.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then all of a sudden you notice, because I remember this being the case, well then all that somehow comes down with everybody else.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you realize we're not trying to use the four questions or the gospel really, the tool is just the four questions, but we're not trying to use the gospel to fix everybody else or to be a magic pill.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're trying to live in light of the truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when we do, when we live in light of the king and the kingdom and how it works, then so, wow, no kidding.
Caesar Kalinowski:Things work better.
Caesar Kalinowski:They work the way God's designed them.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really?
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:And then you do, you live that good news in just.
Tina Moore:Your settledness about everything around you.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:It's just, there's a restfulness.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And isn't, isn't that interesting?
Caesar Kalinowski:'cause when Jesus disciples asked him, how do you pray?
Caesar Kalinowski:What do I, what do we ask Dad for?
Caesar Kalinowski:Said, ask him that it'd be like Heaven on earth.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't think, you know, I grew up believing that, you know, I wasn't really believing that, like, what, there's going to be like, like, cloudy, harpy, white clothes, you know what I mean?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like this weird sort of, you know, it's like, no, that relationally, we can have peace, even with disagreement, or even with lots of wounds, you know, it could, could there be peace on earth as it is in heaven?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, Jesus said, ask for that, expect that.
Caesar Kalinowski:When you start believing that, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like you start to experience it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's part of why we rehearse evidences of grace so often, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tina Moore:And one thing I noticed with looking back on these different, um, Scenarios is that the process of going through the questions is in and of itself, an act of trust and submission, taking the situation and really giving it to the Lord.
Tina Moore:And there is a, you know, immediate peace from the book, the script and beliefs.
Tina Moore:But then I've also looked and seen how God has resolved so many of the underlying things just over time, like here, I'm like laying it out at his feet.
Tina Moore:And then.
Tina Moore:You know, even just last night I'm reading something and I thought, wow, that really empowered me to handle this thing different.
Tina Moore:God's still at work in all of these.
Tina Moore:Things.
Tina Moore:So it's just cool to see.
Tina Moore:It's almost just opening the door to let him do what he's going to do to deliver.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:A hundred percent.
Caesar Kalinowski:A hundred percent.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's what we see in the story.
Caesar Kalinowski:God has just been pursuing us and desires and created us for a relationship of trust.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when we do, it's like saying, okay, you get to be God now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, you know, I've worked hard enough on this or I've worried enough about this.
Caesar Kalinowski:or I've tried to change them enough on this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Uh, I'm going to trust you now.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's like, that's all I've been waiting for.
Caesar Kalinowski:So such grace.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, just to kind of start wrapping up what, when you first got introduced to this, think way back when you first started kind of interacting around the four questions and the four G's and all these things.
Caesar Kalinowski:growing in your gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:What, what do you just remember of what was like immediately easy kind of to apply and what was harder about it for you?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I know this is learning a new language and it's, it's some people struggle and am I doing it right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Or, you know, what do you remember about when you were learning that good, bad, hard, easy?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah,
Tina Moore:I think one of the more difficult things was to share it.
Tina Moore:Well, first of all, to write it down and then to share it.
Tina Moore:Um, but just the process of exposing those disbelief, the unbelief, um, is a very powerful part of, um, kind of breaking down those lies.
Tina Moore:Um, so, and, and to get the feedback.
Tina Moore:And the encouragement of, yes, keep doing this, keep doing this.
Tina Moore:Because when your unbelief is so pervasive, it's hard to picture anything else.
Tina Moore:It's hard.
Tina Moore:It's almost like that.
Tina Moore:Borrowing the faith to, um, to move forward into something else.
Tina Moore:It's like, you don't even know what you could be experiencing because your norm is
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, and what happens is when we get really, really certain of a situation, like, Oh, she's just this, or he's only wanting to, or the only reason this happened was, and we get very certain of these things and they're false beliefs, what we do is we start to look for evidence to support it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then we look for people to commiserate it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And oftentimes unwittingly, even as believers, you know, we'll come to somebody with something.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's really mucky.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's gross.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not, we're not believing the truth.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they'll commiserate with us.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh honey, that's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll just pray.
Caesar Kalinowski:We'll just pray that you don't, that that mean person just moves there.
Caesar Kalinowski:God just moved that neighbor, God.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just get, get, you know, get that, get Ryan a new boss.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just I pray, you know, you're like, no, no, no, no.
Caesar Kalinowski:Pray that we can get set free.
Caesar Kalinowski:That we might live with Freedom . Yes.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:But we, we commiserate and we basically, Anti gospel people by just trying to keep on, you know, or, or due to be, well, honey, if you just quit worrying about it so much, you know, due to be, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, Oh, that's backwards.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:And maybe that's part of them.
Tina Moore:You experience enough of that and you don't want to bring it to light.
Tina Moore:Right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, like you said, you get very, very certain.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so even the act of saying to a community, And others in your life.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, this is going on and I'm not even 100 percent sure what I'm believing here.
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you help me unpack like what's true of God and you know, or go the other direction?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like, okay, this just happened today.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, wasn't good.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or it's not even happened yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:But here's where my heart is and I'm all locked up and my heart rates up and I'm, you know, I'm getting angina, you know, help me What am I not believing to be true right now about myself or this person?
Caesar Kalinowski:But what is true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski:Why is it true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's now we go to the next question, because look at all, look at all this stuff that God's done and Jesus did at the cross.
Caesar Kalinowski:And why does he do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because this is what God's like, you know, what we were creating his image to be just like that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, well, I just read him just as we talk, I just feel like, yeah,
Tina Moore:so good.
Tina Moore:So good.
Tina Moore:But yeah, when you is clearly encouraged us to write.
Tina Moore:Goes through the writing process too, not to neglect that.
Tina Moore:And now I'm, I'm very thankful for that because I can look back and see, and I can, I can go back and, you know, regos myself on these same things.
Tina Moore:I'm like, oh wow, look at those scriptures.
Tina Moore:Look, I'm all put it out right here.
Tina Moore:Like all scriptures.
Tina Moore:Look at all these stories, look at all this evidence that now, you know.
Tina Moore:Yeah, it's just,
Caesar Kalinowski:It's just a constant.
Caesar Kalinowski:And guess what?
Caesar Kalinowski:Do you think you might ever have the same issue or a similar issue connected to something, you know, of the same unbelief and you can go, wait a minute, we've battled this one before.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go back and reverse what's true.
Caesar Kalinowski:And sometimes that's all it takes, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You're like, and that's what we do with each other in community too.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oftentimes you say, listen, and we've said this to you, sis, I know you know this in your head.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let me just speak it out again.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's just name that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and so we get authority again over that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then let's, let's, let's go back through all these truths and look how it showed up in our lives.
Caesar Kalinowski:So many times God's faithful.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is, and this is how he thinks, you know, of you now, this is what's true of you.
Caesar Kalinowski:So sometimes we're being reminded of what we know in our head, but our heart needs it again.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's great.
Caesar Kalinowski:Great.
Tina Moore:Especially the identity stuff.
Tina Moore:And when you finally start latching onto that.
Tina Moore:it, there's just so, there's so much freedom and, and you can walk by faith.
Tina Moore:And, and I look at the walking by faith in my identity as it relates to relating with neighbors and how much blessing.
Tina Moore:The Lord has brought through that, um, for these same issues, brought heal, physical healing, you know, relational, emotional, all kinds of good things have come from when it was truly just an act of faith saying, okay, this is my identity.
Tina Moore:All right, I'm going to, I'm going to take the next step.
Tim Brower:Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski:And there again, I just feel like you're underlining for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the gospel that sets.
Caesar Kalinowski:People free, scripture says it's the gospel that sets men free, mankind, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:It is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not our perfect, uh, pronouncement of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's not our perfect.
Caesar Kalinowski:But boy, oh boy, is it powerful when we come in faith.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so, this is what we're encouraging everybody to do.
Caesar Kalinowski:And thanks for the encouragement that we've given you.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, to write this out, you're learning a new language, it feels very rigid at first.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, it's very rigid.
Caesar Kalinowski:So this is how I have to have the conversation this rigidly.
Caesar Kalinowski:No, this is how we learn it.
Caesar Kalinowski:But as you start to use it and apply it, you might be coming in this question or backwards, or let's talk about what you're believing about your brother right now, or yourself, you know, but what does It's true of them.
Caesar Kalinowski:What does God say is true?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can we, and so it's way more fluid, but to learn it, that act of writing these things out with each other, we, you know, we've done this where, you know, we do this in community, we've done this with you and we write it all out and you're like, Whoa, there it is.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a big list, you know, all these attributes you got, but that's how we grow in it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's how we learn to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And it's also how we pass it on to others.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we don't want to get to the point where we're just like, I say, Yoda, Jesus, like, wow, Tina just goes right there.
Caesar Kalinowski:She's so smart.
Caesar Kalinowski:How did you get there?
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, Oh man, I got pages of stuff.
Caesar Kalinowski:I was praying through this and working through the board questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:So we want to let people see that, right?
Tina Moore:Yeah, that's a, that's good encouragement.
Tina Moore:Yeah.
Tina Moore:I think I'm going to be pulling this out.
Tina Moore:I mean, doing some more mauling with it, which is
Caesar Kalinowski:awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:Awesome.
Caesar Kalinowski:Tina, thanks for sharing your heart in this and your experiences.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really appreciate it.
Tina Moore:Thanks, Caesar.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, Tim, thanks for being with us, brother, and sharing the love and some of the things that you're learning about the gospel and how to really apply.
Caesar Kalinowski:The four questions to get at what is the gospel in connection to a different situation, any different situation really.
Caesar Kalinowski:I know that, um, you're a father, pastor, neighbor, all that stuff, so obviously the gospel isn't just your job or something like that, it's real.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you and Anna live discipleship as a lifestyle, I know that.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I'm real curious, like, what are some of the ways...
Caesar Kalinowski:That you've been using the four questions and applying the gospel to your own life and situations like just different ways that you've gone.
Caesar Kalinowski:Wow, this is good tool for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:This has helped me.
Caesar Kalinowski:What are just some of the different ways you've been applying that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, um,
Tim Brower:this, this, uh, past three weeks, I've been actually preaching through, uh, the four questions moving from unbelief to belief and looking how that, uh, really shapes our view of who God is.
Tim Brower:And so I've been focusing a lot on the first question with that and what the gospel really means.
Tim Brower:And so I've, I've used it for, for teaching.
Tim Brower:It's, it's really transformed the way I read scripture devotionally.
Tim Brower:And then, um, also use it for preparation for, uh, We're speaking on Sunday mornings, um,
Caesar Kalinowski:so let's talk about that a little bit because I've, I've suggested that folks throughout the years and maybe, maybe you and I've had this conversation, but I've, I've suggested for years that using the four questions as sort of a filter or a late, you know, outline or a grid to say, Hey, Within my preaching outline, this is pretty solid.
Caesar Kalinowski:If we make sure at some point that we're pulling out, you know, based on whatever we're teaching, whatever passage or whatever the topic is, those four, the answers to those four questions, because then we know for sure gospel's baked in there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Tim Brower:Well, and like today, for instance, you know, just looking at.
Tim Brower:It's all about really pounding in who God is.
Tim Brower:And we looked through a passage from Luke seven and we're just looking at the woman who came in and washed Jesus feet, that she really had to believe who he was in order to take that stand and go into a Pharisees house.
Tim Brower:And, you know, and so, you know, believing who God is really is.
Tim Brower:What we put our faith in and and so often people put their faith in their works or in other things And you know when we talk about the good news, are we bringing it back to who God is?
Tim Brower:And so really in all of in all of Scripture, we see that God is the same all throughout and So it's really helpful to tie everything together in Scripture.
Tim Brower:It's really helpful to You know keep what our response is what we do at the end, because so often we want to say, well, go do this, this, and this.
Tim Brower:And,
Caesar Kalinowski:um, and you'll be more like Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tim Brower:So if we look at the flow of the four questions, it really helps us.
Tim Brower:You know, be rooted deeply in, in who he is and, you know, over and over again, the Bible says, trust in the Lord with all your heart.
Tim Brower:Well, what are we trusting in?
Tim Brower:We're trusting in who he is and what he's done for us.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've been thinking a lot about this lately and you and I may have discussed this in the past, but I, it's really become in front and center how transactional at times my relationship with God becomes.
Caesar Kalinowski:And even how I view who he is, is through, is Through the lens of, well, what he's done or what I'm asking him to do, and that's, it gets kind of icky.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, you know, if you applied that to your relation, our relationship with our wives, it's like, well, tell me about Tina.
Caesar Kalinowski:She does this for me.
Caesar Kalinowski:She does that for me.
Caesar Kalinowski:She does this.
Caesar Kalinowski:If I asked her to do that, she'd be willing to do it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's like, I didn't ask you that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I asked you, tell me about your wife, you know, and I think that unfortunately that due to be distortion creeps in there.
Caesar Kalinowski:And from all of life, and I live under much of that tyranny like anybody does, and I probably do that to more people than I want to, but the gospel's working that out.
Caesar Kalinowski:But I think our relationship with God becomes quite transactional in that sense, too, where we forget to start with in every situation.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, maybe God does do these things, and we can ask Him for that, but you know why, like you're saying?
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I have faith in who he is and his character, and it's ever changing.
Caesar Kalinowski:And part of why, you know, we, in that second question, well, how's God proven that's true?
Caesar Kalinowski:And one of the areas we look at is in our own lives, in a community, in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you go, lots and lots of examples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay, so he's still that way.
Caesar Kalinowski:So then that's starting to tell my heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:He's still that way for this issue that I'm facing too.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you know why he'll do that?
Caesar Kalinowski:Now we get into our identity because we're beloved sons, daughters, because this is part of our authority or our privilege.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now we get to receive that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to share that.
Caesar Kalinowski:We, you know, all that how powerful, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Gosh, it, it, it
Tim Brower:really, it, it's good news and it takes the pressure off of.
Tim Brower:Trying to come up with something creative.
Tim Brower:Cause there's so much that we can talk about with who God is.
Tim Brower:And I tell people all the time, I'm like, we, we can make a list, but that list is not even, you know, beginning to be complete and, you know, because he's.
Tim Brower:You know,
Caesar Kalinowski:unimaginable when we're listing out the answer to the first question, who is God and what's he like?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, like it could go a long way, you know, um, so have you, you've also been using the four questions, um, I think in much the way we do here in cigar and theology with some guys too, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Where we got some men's group together and hang out and I know that's not everybody's cup of tea.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, like you don't even call it a day.
Caesar Kalinowski:You call it something else.
Caesar Kalinowski:Don't you?
Caesar Kalinowski:I think you call it a
Tim Brower:campfire and theology.
Tim Brower:Uh, you know, a lot of people around here don't like to, you know, smoke a cigar,
Caesar Kalinowski:but, uh, I barely ever do half the time, even at cigar and theology.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't smoke,
Tim Brower:but Oh, it's been great.
Tim Brower:And it, you know, I've had neighbors come that.
Tim Brower:Some of them have been in church, and then there's some that have not, but just to hear, like, why we go through it the way we do, like, I'll, I talked to them, uh, two weeks ago we met, and I just explained, hey, this is why we are doing this, and there's a reason.
Tim Brower:behind it is really to highlight, uh, because everyone wants to jump to either what God has done or what we get to do,
Caesar Kalinowski:you know, or, or what we're supposed to do or what you should do or what you should stop doing.
Tim Brower:And so, you know, just trying to reiterate to them the importance of why we go through it in the way that we do, uh, looking at each question, you know, and, and not moving, jumping ahead in the story, so to speak.
Tim Brower:And so, um, yeah, I think the guys really.
Tim Brower:Engage well in that and, um, it's helped them to see maybe a bigger picture of who God is versus the box that we all try to put them into.
Tim Brower:Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski:no kidding.
Caesar Kalinowski:How, how has the use of the four questions and really that's just the tool to get to like, what's the thing behind the thing?
Caesar Kalinowski:And what's the gospel speak into this?
Caesar Kalinowski:How's that changing your own life?
Caesar Kalinowski:If we take off the pastor hat for a second and just Tim looking in the mirror, Tim is dad or Tim cooking dinner or, you know, uh,
Tim Brower:it, you know, I think I've been learning this stuff and trying to wrestle through it for years.
Tim Brower:And, um, you know, really helping to identify my unbelief, you know, and what that is.
Tim Brower:And so it comes up in so many different ways.
Tim Brower:And I think it's easier to see in my kids, you know, and talk, talk to them about it versus my own heart.
Tim Brower:But I think one of the biggest impacts been like speaking the gospel to myself and being able to, to recognize my deep need for trusting in who God is and remembering that.
Tim Brower:And so, yeah, we, you know, we use it.
Tim Brower:we, in talking with our children, um, in our DNA groups, uh, that we, we have, and, uh,
Caesar Kalinowski:which just for folks wondering what that is, that's like a little triads guys getting together, girls getting together.
Caesar Kalinowski:Really trying to get after the gospel, unbelief in their own hearts.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go ahead.
Caesar Kalinowski:Sorry.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so
Tim Brower:we, you know, we go through, Um...
Tim Brower:How to, how to work through the circle, which,
Caesar Kalinowski:um, you know, maybe, which we haven't even talked about yet, but it's really the four questions applied in a, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:So
Tim Brower:there's lots of tools out there that, that really help lead us to repentance and what is really true about God and how we believe in.
Tim Brower:So, you know, I think in my daily life, I've become more fluent in speaking.
Tim Brower:The truth about that, the more I practiced walking through the four questions, the more I use it in, in my own devotional time or, or in conversation.
Tim Brower:And, uh, I meet with a group of guys every Wednesday morning and we kind of, you know, just go through those four questions in our own.
Tim Brower:You know how, how we've seen that happen in our own devotional life and, you know, can talk about the unbelief that we have,
Caesar Kalinowski:um, it's almost Tim, as if you're saying the gospel is good news for all of life, all of life, but it's not just, it's not just, uh, our ticket to heaven, but it's, uh, like, Wow.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to preach the gospel and we get to talk to our kids this way.
Caesar Kalinowski:We get to have our devotions and we get to do it with guys around a fire and maybe for breakfast.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we talk about everything in light of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:I mean, it's
Tim Brower:been, it really has been a good tool.
Tim Brower:That's transformed the way that, you know, that I talk with people and that even for listening, you know, what, what are people putting their hope in and what do they believe is true about God being able to have that.
Tim Brower:a listening ear to be able to respond with truth versus
Caesar Kalinowski:just my opinion.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's a, that's a big difference.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like giving people good news versus just good advice.
Caesar Kalinowski:So as we kind of start to wrap up here, um, it's amazing at how much your own gospel fluency has grown man in the last few years.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, it's phenomenal.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like that's just, I can hear it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I can see it.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's where your heart's going.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's leaning there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Um, but it, We're not, we don't all start there.
Caesar Kalinowski:Right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And when we first get introduced to some of these tools, like the four G's and the four questions and how they all fit together, um, it's not always immediately easy.
Caesar Kalinowski:What, uh, what would vice would you have for people like, like maybe like what was hard for you or, and what's helped in that, you know, in applying the four questions or maybe what fears you had when you first started trying to use it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Because I think, I think sometimes we try to use it like a hammer or like a magic spell or something, but what are, what are some, what's some advice, like maybe like things you've based and how you've learned to get past that using the four questions?
Caesar Kalinowski:So I
Tim Brower:think with the four questions, the I would say my biggest struggle initially was moving through the first three very quick and getting to the end.
Tim Brower:Now what, you know?
Tim Brower:And so I think learning to, to pause and spend a lot of time talking about who God is and really
Caesar Kalinowski:digging deep into that, like
Tim Brower:what is always true about him?
Tim Brower:Because if we believe what's always true about him, then all these other fears and struggles that we have are, are going to fade away.
Tim Brower:easier because this is what's true about God.
Tim Brower:And he, you know, and so really looking at that, it's changed the way I've thought about identity and, um, you know, that distortion that we've, that we all have.
Tim Brower:And, um, you know, I think even in, I'm getting ready to do some premarital counseling and talking with them about this, you know, I think that it's very important to, you know, if we want to build our relationships on the truth of the gospel, um, What better tool
Caesar Kalinowski:to use than going through this?
Caesar Kalinowski:Can you imagine if everybody
Tim Brower:who's that I've had,
Caesar Kalinowski:pardon me.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm sorry.
Caesar Kalinowski:I didn't mean to interrupt.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go ahead.
Tim Brower:I think some of the, the struggles I had was knowing like how to be confident in talking about it without, um, you know, thinking like looking like I'm thinking too much, you know?
Tim Brower:Yeah.
Tim Brower:And so.
Tim Brower:The more that you practice, the more fluent you become and you can, it just comes out where, you know, a new person in our church family that is, is wanting to lead a group and have a, you know, like our DNA group.
Tim Brower:Um, it, it may take a lot of practice for them to feel comfortable.
Tim Brower:going through that where they're confident and they're not having to maybe look at a piece of paper or look at, you know, but it, it ends up becoming our heart language.
Caesar Kalinowski:So.
Caesar Kalinowski:Absolutely.
Caesar Kalinowski:And that's one of the reasons, Tim, too, that we're always trying to encourage folks to not only write out your answers, like when you're.
Caesar Kalinowski:Like when you're first practicing this new tool, this new language of the gospel, write out your answers, like when you're doing it with your spouse and or close friend, you know, or both, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:Like really write that out and get comfortable with the mechanics of it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then when you do it in community, There's not like I'm trying to act like a guru.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like we're saying, Hey, we're going to learn this together.
Caesar Kalinowski:And so here's the four questions.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll maybe write them on a big sticky post it note, one of those wall size ones, or pull out a whiteboard, you know, or whatever and say, we're going to try to walk through these four questions together.
Caesar Kalinowski:We're way smarter together than we are apart.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and we're going to write out all our answers on this board or on this, you know, four sheets of sticky paper, we've done it.
Caesar Kalinowski:And they're just, Oh, it's exhaustive.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're not acting like, Oh, I got to remember this or I got to do it perfectly.
Caesar Kalinowski:And yet.
Caesar Kalinowski:When you go through it that way, everybody's learning.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's so much more rich and Everybody's learning how to do it, right?
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, so instead of having to hide and act like, Oh, I'm nervous and I'm not going to just say, Hey, we're learning how to do this.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's learn to do it together better.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, uh, and if you do it, if you do it a lot, eventually you're going to say, Hey, this week, and this is part of how we raise up disciples to make disciples.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hey, this week, so and so is going to be, uh, taking the poor questions in connection to, uh, something that came up this week in our community, you know, so and so is going through this, or they're afraid of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's go ahead and see what the gospel says.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, I think
Tim Brower:another, another thing is even with like the campfire and theology having that time where people, you know, we don't bring our Bibles.
Tim Brower:We just sit and talk and everybody can think of something, some characteristic or attribute about God.
Tim Brower:You know, even someone who doesn't know God.
Tim Brower:And so they can say, well, you know, is this true about him?
Tim Brower:Or is this true about him?
Tim Brower:And, and that leads to, you know, just kind of leads itself through.
Tim Brower:And then you might have some people who are a little more, um, versed in, you know, the Bible or whatever they're
Caesar Kalinowski:that is,
Tim Brower:yeah, that might give a few more answers or, or whatever, but no one feels.
Tim Brower:Unprepared because it's just a conversation that you're having and it really is a great tool.
Tim Brower:I think for that for just having conversations with people.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, and you, you just brought up a real simple thing real fast.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's pretty big.
Caesar Kalinowski:People say, well, what about with not yet believers?
Caesar Kalinowski:See, there's a posture there.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's like We're open, we're all exploring this, we're letting the spirit guide this, but we're using this framework of the four questions, and someone who may not even know, or maybe they're not an evangelical, but most people have some Christian influence in their life, or church as a kid, or something, but even if they don't, they might go, is this true of God?
Caesar Kalinowski:And you go, let's write that down, and then when we get to the second question, can we prove that in scripture, and from our own lives and in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski:Let's see.
Caesar Kalinowski:And see, you see the openness of that and go, no, that's not true.
Caesar Kalinowski:Or yeah, good one.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then moving on.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, it's a platitude.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's a proposition.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's like, no, we're going to look at the proof of this.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love that heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I love that the ease of that posture to say, no, we're going to, we're going to have a discussion.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I think Tim, some people get a little flipped out of like, well, wait a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:You just, you just mentioned you don't bring your bibles.
Caesar Kalinowski:for a theology discussion?
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, um, just to, just to remind people who might be flipping out, nor did Jesus ever, because there were no copies of the five books of the Pentateuch or the, you know, writings of the prophets.
Caesar Kalinowski:And the old, the New Testament was, uh, written later.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, There was no, you know, there was a copy of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:People come and have it read to them.
Caesar Kalinowski:That was it.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, there's no indication that they were photocopying those out there.
Caesar Kalinowski:So letting the spirit guide us to what we know is true and, and doing it in community is exactly what Jesus did and what he called us to do and what he modeled in all of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I don't want, I, I love your part posture in that brother.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love your heart in that.
Tim Brower:Something I read, you know, I've read through, um, you know, the Bible.
Tim Brower:New York Times and the other week I was reading in John 16, verse nine.
Tim Brower:It says the world's main problem is that they, that they don't believe in me.
Tim Brower:Jesus says that.
Tim Brower:So it's an unbelief in him.
Tim Brower:And so.
Tim Brower:If we truly believe that that is the main issue in the world today, well, what better way to, to point them to him than to say, well, this is what's true about him, you
Caesar Kalinowski:know, let's move from unbelief to belief in this area, connected to that area.
Caesar Kalinowski:So
Tim Brower:anyhow, yeah, I thought that was, it just struck me different as I've gone through this.
Tim Brower:Discipleship is moving from unbelief to belief, and Jesus says the main sin is
Caesar Kalinowski:unbelief.
Caesar Kalinowski:So did Paul and Romans.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, you've exchanged the truth of who God is for a lie.
Caesar Kalinowski:What?
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah, there's the root.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and so there again to underline something you said, taking your time to get through and have fun, exhausting, like, what do we know to be true of God connected to this?
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, wait a minute.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's what he does.
Caesar Kalinowski:Hold on a second.
Caesar Kalinowski:That'll come in really exhausting that and, and the, the power of when you do this in community, people from different experiences, maturity levels, giftings, apostles versus shepherds, prophets versus, you know, teachers, all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:You come up with like, well, I think this is true of God in connection to that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And you're like, I never would have thought of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I don't know.
Caesar Kalinowski:I wouldn't have hit my heart.
Caesar Kalinowski:You know, it's just different experiences, different perspectives.
Caesar Kalinowski:And we go, wow, the richness of that.
Caesar Kalinowski:And I find in my, in my experience of this, and we use it all the time, Tim, it's just part of our language now.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just find that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Whatever the issue is for myself or someone else that we're doing it, we all get gospel and just taking the time to get through that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I already feel like a million times better just being reminded of what's true of God because I do trust him, but I don't perfectly trust him like Abraham, but just going through that list and taking the time, like you said, to go like, well, what's true in this, in this situation, this, this, this, I ran away.
Caesar Kalinowski:I just go, all right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And then, and then all the stories from people's lives and reminders from scripture and then magnified, you know, Jesus life.
Caesar Kalinowski:And at the cross, you're like, yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski:Oh, good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is such good news.
Caesar Kalinowski:How do I get to respond?
Caesar Kalinowski:I go like, that's why I want to respond.
Caesar Kalinowski:The I'm getting goose pimples just talking about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Yeah.
Tim Brower:Well, it takes the pressure off of us because we see that God is always the faithful one, you know, as you walk through that.
Tim Brower:That comes up every time, you know, God is faithful and because of that,
Caesar Kalinowski:I can trust him, you know, Amen.
Caesar Kalinowski:Well, brother, we could talk about this forever and ever, the goodness of the gospel and, and praise God for these tools to be able to see it and use it and grow in our fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, hey, thanks for your time today and just sharing your heart and experiences with a bunch of other brothers and sisters.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really appreciate it, man.
Caesar Kalinowski:Say hey to Anna for me.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I will.
Caesar Kalinowski:Thank you.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Blessings.
Caesar Kalinowski:God bless.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:I, I know that, boy, that super encouraged me and reminds me of a lot of the functionality and the mechanics of all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now you might be sitting there and thinking, Oh, some of that makes sense, but I don't have, I haven't had the coaching or the, the deep training they have.
Caesar Kalinowski:So there's, I have questions about what do they mean by this or how are they doing that?
Caesar Kalinowski:That's okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:That's to be expected.
Caesar Kalinowski:This is a process.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's also why I'm doing the training that we're doing and all that.
Caesar Kalinowski:So again, Please join us for the discipleship and mission Made Simple, how to live and multiply a lifestyle of discipleship that others will follow.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, I really want you to do that.
Caesar Kalinowski:I want you to come as a spouse and I want you to invite folks in your church and community to join you for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, and carve out a lunch or whatever.
Caesar Kalinowski:So, all you have to do to grab your seat now is go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash simple.
Caesar Kalinowski:Everyday Disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash simple.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:Now, normally this is the part in our episodes where I go to the big three.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm gonna flip the script a little bit today.
Caesar Kalinowski:I've only done this one other time like in almost seven years and I want you to go to the Facebook group, the Everyday Disciple Podcast Facebook group.
Caesar Kalinowski:If you've not joined us there, go for it.
Caesar Kalinowski:Just go to Facebook, search it up or go to everyday disciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash Facebook.
Caesar Kalinowski:It'll take you there and I want you to give me You're either questions or your big three takeaways from what you've heard either in this episode or the last few where we've been unpacking some of the mechanics and tools of gospel fluency.
Caesar Kalinowski:I really want to hear that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Your ahas or three questions or whatever you've got.
Caesar Kalinowski:And, and then always end the big three with a real practical thing.
Caesar Kalinowski:This practical thing this week is to join me in the free training.
Caesar Kalinowski:Go to everydaydisciple.
Caesar Kalinowski:com forward slash simple right now and reserve your seat.
Caesar Kalinowski:Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski:Get it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll get you all the information.
Caesar Kalinowski:You're going to love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:And like I, like I said earlier, it's, it's probably the most comprehensive training I've ever put together to do online and give away.
Caesar Kalinowski:All right.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm excited about it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'm really excited.
Caesar Kalinowski:Still got a lot of work to do on it.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's going to be a busy week, but I hope you'll join me for that.
Caesar Kalinowski:Alright, well that's it for this edition of the Everyday Disciple Podcast.
Caesar Kalinowski:Join me again next week as we continue to dive deeper into a lifestyle of discipleship and mission.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's the only way to live.
Caesar Kalinowski:It's what we were created for.
Caesar Kalinowski:I love it.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'd like to do it with you.
Caesar Kalinowski:I'll talk to you soon.
Announcer:Thanks for joining us today., for more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit EverydayDisciple.
Announcer:com.
Announcer:And remember, you really can live with the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Announcer:Gospel Fluency For Your Family and Church | https://EverydayDisciple.com/458
