Utility NFTs are NFTs with use cases beyond just being unique digital assets. They are used to prove and incentivize ownership and build community. The technology already exists, how we use it is limited only by our imagination. This week's episode of "The Future of NFTs" podcast welcomes AdLunam co-founder Jason Fernandes, as he discusses the importance of utility in NFTs and how it can benefit users in the real world.

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IMPORTANCE OF UTILITY IN NFTs

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (CEO & Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Jason Fernandes (Co-founder of AdLunam)

00:26

Nadja

Welcome. Welcome, everyone. Great to have you with us. As always, I'm going to allow a bit of time for the room to fill up before we get going with today's very exciting episode due to the fabulous guests that we have in the house for you. In the meantime, here is your 1 minute or less look down on this week's top NFT news. I say Nike, you say sports, think again. The sportswear manufacturing giant is proving that you don't have to be in web3 to do web3. The company's NFT related projects are topping the NFT revenue charts, clocking in at over $185 million. For context, the designer brand Dolce and Gabbana, which comes in at second place, has rated up a measly $25 million in comparison. It seems there's no better time to just do it. If you thought you needed to be a talented artist that makes the canvas bow at your feet in order to create NFT art, there is hope for you.

01:29

Nadja

The world's first NFT art that's put none other than an XLS file, aka Microsoft excel on chain has been released by financial planning platform Data rails in support of war victims in Ukraine. If filling out spreadsheets isn't your idea of fun, it seems the NFT world is ready to receive you with open arms. Even more interesting, telegram CEO Pavel Durov has indicated that the communications company is considering making telegram user names and channel links available as NFTs, which forms part of a wider intention to web3 of the chat app. If you've ever had the misfortune of dealing with the nightmare of scammers posing as crypto group admins asking for your keys, your money, or your life, then this could have some real interesting implications. All right, so I see the space is filling up. Without further ado, let's get going. Hey, web3 world.

02:36

Nadja

This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam, and you are listening to The Future of NFTs, the weekly show that looks beyond current NFT use cases to what Non Fungible Token technology is evolving into. Of course, this is seen through the eyes and built by the minds of the fascinating guest speakers that we speak to each week. AdLunam is building the industry's first IDO Launchpad with a Proof of Attention allocation mechanism. We deep dive into the world of NFTs because as an investment platform, we are contributing to the future of NFTs. Through our Engage to Earn model, which is powered by dynamic NFT investor profiles, investors in IDO sales are able to leverage their Proof of Attention scores in order to receive allocation and share the allocation through fractionalized NFTs. We are live every Tuesday. Catch us each week for in-depth insights. Also be sure to join our sister’s show Diving into Crypto Live every Thursday at the same time.

03:43

Nadja

04:51

Nadja

So over today's guest. Jason has had an illustrious career so far, which started as far back at the age of 15 when one of his first startups was featured on MTV. Fast forward all of the years since. Jason is an award winning founder, investor, speaker, advisor and crypto analyst. Not only is his expertise sought out by top crypto media, but he's advised international firms, government bodies and state governments on blockchain and crypto adoption. He's also served as the country head of India for Crypto Exchange Xrex and chief business officer at the publicly listed Web3 investment firm NFTech. Jason, we really would need ten minutes to go over all of your impressive bio, but I hope I've covered most of the highlights. Very happy to have you in the house today.

05:50

Jason

Hi Nadja, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you everybody else for tuning in to listen. It's really nice to see this room grow week after week. Yes, I'm happy to be here. I can't wait to jump into discussions on NFTs utility, something about the future of NFTs and at least where I think some of the most interesting innovations are going to come from. Happy to be here and look forward to getting started.

06:23

Nadja

Awesome. I think that we are definitely much more excited than you are because everyone here is a captive audience member just waiting to hear what you have to say. Jason recently conducted a mini NFT boot camp with Masters union organization offering blockchain developer Master Camp classes. Really, we are in a very fortunate position today because we are getting the low down on NFT utility straight from the master's mouth. On that note, Jason, let's start with an insider peek at the man of the hour. Tell us more about your background and what fuels your fire.

07:03

Jason

Yeah, well, thanks a lot for that introduction. Well, I guess I would consider myself mostly a technologist at my core. I've been in technology professionally pretty much for as long as I can remember. As you mentioned, I started my first company around 13. At the time, Internet was like brand new. I first started interacting with it at around 10. I was like 15 and it was still being worked out. The company I started at the time, Zeo Cities, would focus on the areas like content discovery on ramps like email and things like that hadn't quite been figured out yet. I also kind of joke that when I started one using the Internet, it was black and white. That's not actually too far from the truth, because at the time, you had to sign up for at least India, if you wanted to get online, you had to sign up for what's known as a shell account.

07:59

Jason

08:56

Jason

So, yeah, I mean, early adopters, when crypto came out, blockchain, bitcoin came out. It's obvious that I would be there and try to be figuring out how I can contribute.

09:08

Nadja

Yeah, I think your description of yourself as a technologist and an early adopter is so apt for a lot of what's happening in the Web3 space. I couldn't help wondering, you mentioned this black and white Internet, but do you think that we are in the black and white version of Web3 today? So that's an open question. Answer it at your own peril. But on that note, speaking of NFTs.

09:38

Jason

Yeah, I guess if I could. Yeah, I think we certainly are in the black and white version of blockchain to the extent that we will see it, let's say five years or ten years hence, looking back, I think that we are still so nascent that there's still just so much left to be discovered. There's just so many more avenues where we wouldn't have even expected going in.

10:06

Nadja

11:17

Nadja

How do you see NFTs changing the Web3 industry, but also changing the wider industry, the business world in general, outside and around it?

11:30

Jason

Yeah, I mean your description of how this evolved is really appropriate. One of the things that I think is really great about how NFTs is impacting Web3 is this infusion of creativity that's coming into the industry. You have all this creative energy coming in from artists all over the world that are discovering NFTs to use as a way to distribute their art. Maybe they start off as artists, but then end up being very firmly in the Web3 space, maybe as entrepreneurs or others. I've certainly seen quite a few people that were first introduced to Web3 from the perspective of art and from their perspective maybe even maybe buying a music NFT, for example, maybe the famous artist has put out their music on an NFT, the guy buys the NFT, and next thing they're cofounding a Web3 company. I mean, I think there's quite a bit of this creative energy that's just coming into blockchain and cryptocurrency and Web3 from the whole art industry, where you want to call it art world.

12:41

Jason

Perhaps. Another thing I think that's happening is like a massive influx of funds, right? A lot of people that would not normally be attracted to a website, would not normally be attracted to blockchain and cryptocurrency are purchasing NFTs, holding NFTs, and are like fully and starting to fully participate. There's quite a few people that have CryptoPunks. You see a lot of celebrities now have CryptoPunks, particularly with the cost of CryptoPunks, and these celebrities would not normally be known. For example Snoop Dog has one, I think David Beckham also owns one, but these guys are not really particularly known for being into technology or having that as even part of their focus on core and then the next thing they get more and more interested in it. There was actually a Snoop Dog lookalike that showed up at an NFT conference in the US and everybody just assumed it was the real Snoop Dog because he's already indicated that an interest in NFTs.

13:39

Jason

I just think that you have this cross pollination of artists and musicians and technologists and I just think that amalgamation of all these disparate communities can make for a very good innovation and brand new things entering the industry. I think that's great. I think that's one of the things that you see is how NFTs are changing web3.

14:11

Nadja

Yeah. I think it's so important to highlight this cross pollination, as you say, between creative people and people who are in the technology space, because it really brings to mind this renaissance upliftment of art. That was powered by patrons who were really supporting artists in order to create these great works of art that we still go to museums in order to view. The one really interesting thing that I think you highlighted is this phenomenon that people very often start off as artists or musicians, but then once they enter the space, it's not long before they become an entrepreneur as well. I think this is one of the most really empowering things about web3 in general is really just understanding that in other industries there are all of these glass ceilings and just very tightly controlled boundaries that keep you out from the boardroom tables and keep you out from the decision making rooms.

15:18

Nadja

As you come into web3 and even more so in the NFT space where traditionally artists and musicians have been at the unfortunate end of the transaction because you see that record labels and galleries and all of the decision makers in those creative worlds are the ones with the power and the money. Really in web3 in general and NFTs specifically, it's just this power switch flip which is great. Speaking of the revolutionary potential of NFTs, there are so many experts out there that are touting many different next big things when it comes to NFTs and of course there are others who say that it's going to crash and burn before it's even out of orbit. What do you reckon is the future of NFTs and also how do you think it will evolve from the current innovations that we are seeing right now and what might it look like in future?

16:19

Jason

Yeah, that's a great question. The whole topic it had is the future NFTs so it's definitely worthwhile to talk about where it may go in the future. Well, there's a couple of things that I'm tracking that I think are interesting. One is the social impact NFTs that are out there. There's various companies that are looking at using NFTs as an ecosystem that celebrates rewards, gamify, social, environmental good. There are people and there are platforms where you can earn NFTs collectibles by doing positive deeds, by doing environmental focused things. Essentially it's like gold based, cause based NFTs where people work towards that. Even these NFTs where you have to lose a certain amount of weight or you're using it to work out or gain muscle mass and things like that. I mean, a lot of these I think I'm really curious to see where it will go. I'm not entirely certain that constitutes the kind of utility that will hold value over time.

17:36

Jason

The question is what value is it, right? If your purpose is in some way to fund a nonprofit organization or to bring attention to a nonprofit organization or a particular cause, that could be something other than monetary that you're achieving through NFTs and through your purchase. Of those NFT interaction with those NFT ecosystems that's far beyond anything you could achieve from purchasing or participating in that in any other way with the hope to extract some degree of utility over it from it over the long term. That's one thing I think is interesting. I mean, it's a company called Leelide where they're creating this sustainable NFT identity and ecosystem again, where you can get points to earn collectibles by doing positive deeds and things like that. So that's interesting. Another thing that I think is interesting is the whole fragmentation of NFTs. You mentioned that earlier in your introduction when you were talking about AdLunam and fractionalizing entities.

18:42

Jason

I think that is going to be really fascinating going forward how that evolves. Particularly because we know that some NFTs are massively prohibitively expensive. The cheapest Crypto Punk I think is about $250,000 and that's usually down like it was 4, $500,000 even a few months ago. If you want to have liquidity in some of these NFTs, the only way is to make these high value NFTs liquid via fragmentation. That's of course breaking up the NFT, the smaller pieces so people can earn a smaller part of an expensive entity. Of course you have entire dows that come out of this as a goal, right? Basically a group of people that are coming together to fulfill the common goal either via purchasing an NFT or maybe purchasing like real estate assets and things like that. In fact, one of the ways I came across native fragmentation first was when I was advising a company called FOHO.

19:54

Jason

It's a real estate company, cryptocurrency called FOHO Coin. Essentially when it was creating the tokenomics and constructing the tokenomics for FOHO it came up with essentially like a dual token system where you had like a native token and then you had a native fungible token rather than you had a non-fungible token that was paired with it where you could purchase the non-fungible token with the native token. That NFT basically represented a real estate property. But that could be fractionalized. Of course sold to where individual people had fractured ownership of that property. That's how I first got introduced. When I first started researching and understanding how these things work. That was my sort of first introduction. I think it's going to be really interesting to see where that goes. What are the kind of things that are fractionalized in the future? Are shares going to be fractionalized?

20:53

Jason

Interestingly, fractionalization is really how funds can really enter the ecosystem. That's actually one way where when something is way too expensive for one or two individual people to fund, fractionalization offers that as an out, as something to look into. The other thing I'm tracking, the last, and the third thing rather is profile pictures. So they're known as BFB NFT Projects. You'll notice that most of the top NFT projects are actually BFB NFTs, so thousands of people use them as digital identities. Some systems have used it to send essentially like grant admission to and membership in basically highly active communities. You can say have access to exclusive discord groups, certain rights to images you might purchase. You could also change your Twitter profile picture, for example, to an NFT icon. So these things are actually being done. I think there's even discussions in Twitter essentially allowing you to verify your NFT.

22:07

Jason

That is indeed because theoretically right now you could create an NFT of everything, though it's kind of frowned upon. I could create an NFT that's an exact copy of a Crypto Punk and then refer to that from Twitter. There'll be no way for them to check. However, they are working on that and allowing you to verify that as well. From what I understand. Of course Bored Ape Yacht Club the most famous of these, where they've been doing a lot of these. A lot of people have used their Bored Ape as their profile picture on Twitter. You actually own creative rights to your copyright rights to your particular board. Same with Crypto Punks. There's people that have built entire IPS and media companies and television shows around their bored ape, like Seth Rogen, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, recently setting up a TV show around his body.

23:07

Jason

I think I'm curious to see why these areas, the profile picture NFTs and NFT fragmentation and then finally the social impact.

23:20

Nadja

Yeah, really great answer. I love how you highlighted a couple of different things. First of all, fractionalization being this idea of that's an avenue for funds to enter an ecosystem. Because it brought to mind for me this recent case of a CryptoPunk that was fractionalized between, believe it was over 57,000 investors who whitelisted and will now all own a share of this one crypto punk. Also really what I think stood out was the visibility of all of the use cases, whether it's just NFTs in general or more specifically NFT fractionalization. Because some of the things you mentioned, I mean, for example, social impact nonprofit and environmental organizations, they are the opposite of what we would consider sexy. It's not the kind of thing that people want to get involved with. They would perhaps donate something just to kind of steal their own conscience. It's not something that people feel excited to be involved with.

24:23

Nadja

I've been involved in environmental startups and that kind of thing for a few years. What I've seen very strongly come through recently is those startups use of NFTs. Also, as you were mentioning, the implications of PFPs, including this concept of IP, which again is something that is going to completely change the narrative in terms of what is ownership. If I buy something, what implications does that have for me? Because we are used to this model of the IP is always of course, owned by the company that originally sells something. Even if you think about Facebook, I mean, you join Facebook or Meta as they are now called, and even every piece of data that you upload to the platform immediately becomes the ownership of Facebook as opposed to your own. Also then just how many other real world applications there can be? Like for example, real estate investment in terms of shares and so forth.

25:27

Nadja

On the flip side of all of these really bright clouds and rainbows and unicorns that we can look forward to in the future, what do you think is hindering progress or mass adoption for NFTs? I also want to know in terms of safeguarding against this tech falling flat or really just falling short of its potential, what is it that the industry can do to ensure that we do live up to its potential?

25:59

Jason

Yeah, that's a great question in terms of what's hindering the progress and mass adoption. I think that one of the biggest things that affects NFTs and their popularity is the volatility. The volatility is both a curse and a boon for NFTs. One hand, it discourages a lot of traditional organizations from engaging with NFTs. I know personally of a major religion that was looking at getting into the NFT space, maybe NFT-ing, some of their prize religious artifacts, but they changed their mind due to just the volatility and the negative press attached around NFTs was just not a good market to too controversial. Let's read it that way. So, yeah, and not just that, but you have obviously, a lot of other traditional organizations, companies that would normally maybe get into NFTs, maybe play around with it, but it just sometimes has developed such a bad name in certain circles that people would rather stay there and avoid any particular bad publicity that might come out of it.

27:06

Jason

That I think, is a direct representation of, among other things, the volatility in price. On the flip side, the volatility allows people to get in on a lower floor if they want to invest. I mean, the fact that CryptoPunks now are at something like 250 or 250k last I checked, they may have gone up since then. Indicates that you can have an average person well, an average person a quarter of a million dollars get involved where it might have been unaffordable for him in the past because they were $400,000. Literally double. You do have some new people coming in. Of course, it doesn't quite benefit the actual votes of those NFTs already, so there's that. I think that's one of the things that's hindering a lot of progress. Another thing is that a lot of NFT creators have crafted their NFTs in such a way that they focus their utility like Frank loaded.

28:07

Jason

For example, there might be musical artists that have released NFTs of their music promising goodies that come along the way and people think oh hey, this is great, I'll buy this and then I'll be connected to that artist. Essentially you're doing nothing more than joining his or her fan club because after the very first bit of value or utility that they may give you, maybe entry into a concert or something, all subsequent concerts get paired with subsequent NFTs they release. If it's successful, they're replicating that model. If it's not successful, you may even have trouble collecting on the utility that you are promised in the first place. A lot of that utility that comes in is sometimes Front Loaded and so it's created in such a way that utility decreases over time, which obviously means that the value of that NFT also decreases over time.

29:01

Jason

I think that's dangerous for the future of NFTs, so to speak. Another is that a lot of NFT marketplaces are kind of difficult to use, so they do allow one click login options. Some people are not familiar with how wallets work or creating an NFT or buying, selling NFTs might have an issue with interacting with that aspect of it. Of course, a lot of these don't have live chat support, nor do they have the funds to be able to instantly provide the help that people expect. That can create a perfect storm for customer turnover when you have a new difficult to understand product, and not a lot of resources for somebody to go and learn more.

29:55

Nadja

31:00

Nadja

We often hear that it is the difficulty of using products in the web3 space that is hindering adoption at a mass scale. Do you think that NFT, because it lends itself really towards the general population, as I mentioned earlier about Nike that has top of the charts revenues related to NFTs? I mean they are not even a web3 company. Do you think that NFTs are going to be the way in which a lot of the public is going to be christened into this world of web3? Jason, if you are speaking, you're on mute.

31:49

Jason

Yeah, I was on mute. Thanks. Could you repeat exactly? Could you explain a bit more what you mean by christened into the world of web3? What do you mean by that?

31:58

Nadja

Sure. In terms of really learning how to use a wallet and learning how to make certain purchases and having an address on chain these are things that average people who are not part of the web3 space are completely not used to.

32:14

Nadja

But on the other hand now their Favorite companies whether it's Nike or Adidas or coca cola, all of these companies are coming out and launching various NFT products which seems like are these products being used and received by web3 natives? Or is it more by the general populace who are now learning how to use NFTs, and as a result, also being really just introduced to the world of Web3?

32:43

Jason

Yeah, understood. That's a great question. I've actually wondered how that breakup is like how many of the people that engage in these entities that have done as contests and things are people that are already in the web3 ecosystem and how many of them have never thought about web3 and are just stumbling into it. I think a lot of it depends on how companies implement this. For example, the NBA NFT thing was done on the flow blockchain. It was designed in such a way where you probably didn't even realize that you were using blockchain technology in the first place. Right. Everything was sort of underground. I'm not sure. Whether the way to go is to really teach new people how to use wallets and interact with web3, or whether it's probably more useful to have people develop UI where the fact that it's built on web3 blockchain becomes immaterial and everything is done transparently.

33:49

Nadja

Yeah, I think that is a great answer because if we think back to what you mentioned earlier about the black and white internet, I think most of us would not be sitting here today if this was still the black and white internet. It really depends on, as you say, how companies translate the technology into something that the average user can use on a daily basis. Now I would love to get into the thick of today's topic. Why is utility so important when it comes to NFTs?

34:20

Jason

Yeah, well, really, if you think about it, everything with NFTs in terms of the value that NFTs have in the first place comes from the utility that somebody has built into them, right? It's really the most crucial of factors that one would use. You can think of the value of NFT collections as being built on three pillars community, culture and utility. If you really look at the community and culture aspect of that, it really boils down to utility anyway, because the community is when I buy this NFT, does this give me access to an exclusive, exciting community that I wouldn't have been part of otherwise? If you buy a bored ape today, you end up hobnobbing with some of the people, like some of the biggest names in the web3 space. If that happens to be your goal, it's totally worth it. Again, that really comes back down to utility.

35:26

Jason

I would say it's everything in terms of building the value of an NFT, because if you look at the other two pillars, community and culture, they all will boil down the utility anyway.

35:40

Nadja

Jason that's a great answer. I mean, very succinct. Utility is everything. I think we see this even in web3 in general, where if it's only community and culture, it goes on that hype train and wherever that train is off to. As soon as the market has a downturn, like we are seeing at the moment, and community and even culture falls away then the conversation centers around, okay, what is the utility? Unfortunately, in many cases, there isn't as much utility to really sustain these projects and to keep both institutional as well as retail investors invested not just financially, but also in terms of supporting these projects in the long run. I'm wondering, based on the projects that you've invested, advised and been involved with many different projects in the few years, well, in fact, in the many years that you've been in the crypto space.

36:36

Nadja

I'm wondering what are some of the examples of NFT use cases you've seen that actually lacked utility? Maybe community was there, culture was there, and perhaps a thinly veiled indication of what utility is or could be. Really there wasn't much of substance underneath.

36:59

Jason

38:07

Jason

A lot of rappers, boxers, for example, social media influencers, have promoted NFTs or issued NFTs themselves. A lot of those have gone to zero, right, and that's because they don't build in NFTs. They rely on the hype to sell those NFTs and then once those NFTs are sold, they have no interest in engaging with those communities or engaging in that ecosystem other than the market to them. Over time, you're going to see a lot of those tokens that have no utility basically crash and burn.

38:45

Nadja

Yeah, I think this is a really good point because as you mentioned earlier, some people start these NFT collections and it functions as an extension of the fan club that they already have. If it doesn't end up being an engaged ecosystem, then it is going to fall flat because ultimately then, as you say, there is no much utility that extends over time. On a more positive note, and this would be the final question before I open up to the audience for questions. Guys, if you want to ask Jason a question ,a reminder to either put in a speaker request or you can just DM the AdLunam Twitter handle. Can you give us some examples of NFT use cases that has a really strong built in utility?

39:33

Jason

Yeah, sure. I mentioned Bored Ape Yacht Club earlier they've been doing apart from the fact that you get access to this massive community, right, which again, as I mentioned earlier, is kind of its own utility. Bored Ape Yacht Club is a yacht club for one. You also have the various events that they do. They did $200,000 treasure hunt that was only available for Ape holders and some people actually won. There was also a website that was a dating website solely for people that own apes, but that closed. I think it closed because there was an unusually large amount of men versus women on that dating website. Mostly because if you think about it, how many women bought apes? Not a whole lot. That dating website had a hard time taking off the ground. There's a whole bunch of utility that ends up being built around BAYC, which is why they're so successful.

40:38

Jason

That would be the easiest one to mention. Of course, Crypto Punks has its own community, which is also super useful in terms of depending on the kind of market you try to access and the kind of people you want to connect with.

40:53

Nadja

All right, well guys, with that, let's open it up to the audience. Jason, it's been an absolute treat to having you on today. I am going to move over to the audience and let me see if I have some questions. All right, so I have one already. If you had the ability to create an NFT type, what would you like to have done? Okay, very interesting. Let's see where you take this one.

41:23

Jason

Are you asking me if I would want to have created an NFT type what it would?

41:27

Nadja

I assume so.Hit us with it. Let's see.

41:32

Jason

Interesting. Wow. I would probably come up with some cartoon character maybe focused on maybe a hand or something like that. You'd have that hand dressed up in red specific clothes or something like that, I guess. I don't know. I think that the design of the NFT is probably less useful than kind of what utility is built around it. I think that one of the things that I'll be doing over the next several years is just collecting little pieces of utility that I can add to NFTs later. I recently bought a company, socialioi.com, which is like a social media scheduling site, which I will ultimately integrate into an NFT based system, perhaps as utility to a social media NFT that gets released. I don't know, I don't really have any offhand, but yeah, there's interesting ideas that can come up. Just collect a bunch of utility and then just get ready to pop it on to whatever NFT release, I guess.

42:39

Nadja

Well, that's a perfect answer considering that the topic of today's talk is how important utilities are. So there you have it, folks. Don't be collecting collectibles, collect utility. I see that we have Sahil as a speaker. Sahil, do you want to go ahead and ask Jason a question?

42:57

Speaker-Sahil

Hey, guys, thanks for having me. I want to ask one question. How do you think NFTs, especially the NFTs you're talking about, can help creating the real web3, the self-sovereign web3? I want to know your thoughts on that.

43:18

Jason

Self-sovereign web3. Could you expand on that question a bit? Yes.

43:24

Speaker -Sahil

The current model of NFTs is very risky and very fragile. If you talk about communities, even though there are like thousands of members in NFTs, but each member can hold more than more NFT in their name and we have no proper way to actually find out. There's something called civil attack. Like if you Google it, that's one of the major problems in Web2 right now. Web3 talks about how solving civil attacks, fake accounts, bots, which we have in Web2. How do you think, like, Web3 won't have bots?

44:08

Jason

Yeah, so Nadja mentioned this a little earlier when she was at the top of the session where she was talking about telegram and how telegram was trying to web3, they've made it such that they're talking about making it such where you can NFT or maybe telegram ID and things like that. That can be something that can be used basically once you NFT, that's yours, that's tied to you forever. That ownership and provenance is set in stone and on the blockchain. I think that's going to be really interesting in terms of how a lot of companies are tackling things like fraud. Another thing is, you see, you mentioned self-chartered identity. There's some NFT based identities that are being launched, actually something that different people are trying to do in terms of connecting identity and your digital identity.

45:14

Jason

So, for example, unstoppable domains is also doing that where you can buy your wallet and then that can form essentially a part of your digital identity. So, yeah, I think a lot of the issues that Web2 has in terms of people creating similar IDs, for example, instead of CNN, it's like ICNN or CNN I or something, and it's a totally fake account. I think you're going to be fairly easily able to pick them out when those are NFTs and you can just click on them and see the provenance of that.

45:56

Nadja

Jason, I see that today you are really bringing the most interesting questions to the front of the box. So, he'll, thank you for that self-sovereign and identity question. We had you imaginative creating new NFT types. And now I have another question. How do you think developing nations could use NFTs to expand their economy? Please take us zoom out and go Meta.

46:26

Jason

That's interesting. Offhand. I know that some countries are considering using blockchain to track real estate purchases, to track ownership. I know of at least one country in the Middle East that is deeply looking into modernizing their housing, the entire housing infrastructure by using blockchain and native tokens perhaps maybe to fund real estate purchases as well. Fractured real estate things like that. One of the areas that they can certainly look at is NFT where each property is an NFT and that really helps track, provide house ownership, how that ownership is transferred, things like that. I think those areas where government is looking at NFTs as a way to solve problems like real world problems that they have. Other than that I'm not aware of any. Although what, now I think about it, there are actually city wide governments that are issuing NFTs as well. Like collectively NFTs for certain cities and things like that, using that as a revenue stream generating idea.

47:51

Jason

Keep in mind these are all nascent, these are really nascent ideas and I think that while somebody may buy them now, they made a whole value. It's really good that these experimentations are happening because ultimately that's how we're going to discover the next best amazing use case guarantees that we would never have considered had it not been unleashed on the general populace for them to do it what they will.

48:18

Nadja

Great. This brings to mind, I think, the city of Miami recently launched NFTs on the Ethereum chain that I think in partnership with Time, if I'm not mistaken. I think we are definitely going to have you back as a guest speaker because we have never had the opportunity to get so many questions from the audience because we always finish at the top of the hour. Thank you for really just making use of the time wisely because I have another question because we still have some time. Will we see a future and guys, I just want to say shout out to the community because these questions are absolutely amazing. Will we see a future where every person would be NFT-ed?

49:05

Jason

Yeah, so thanks for that Nadja. I'm known for my brevity, if anything. Yeah, in terms of whether each individual person will be NFT, Diesel has a social network where it's like essentially you own your very similar to a Web3 version of Twitter ,where you own that and people can essentially buy tokens and each of those individual usernames are NFTs themselves. There is some of this happening already in the Web3 space. I think that there's also been some experimentations where people have tokenized their future earnings. So, for example, I know at least one person in the Indian crypto space that has tokenized their future earnings where they sold NFTs, they guaranteed people a portion of their future income. Which I think is really interesting because I think that might be the ultimate way people end up funding college the way college tuition is going.

50:18

Nadja

Another question, what do you think of traditional brands using NFTs in marketing? Just also a shout out here to the community for using the inbox of the AdLunam Twitter handle. If you would like to ask a question by speaking on the platform, you can also put in a speaker request. Jason, what do you think of these traditional companies using NFTs in their marketing? Yay or nay?

50:45

Jason

Well, it depends on how deeply the NFT concept is integrated into what they're trying to do. We know, for example, there's a company that's now in trouble with where essentially you could tokenize essentially NFT sneakers and put them up for sale and then StockX, for example, let's just call it what it is, it was StockX. They had NFT that they had launched on sneakers where you could buy them and then you could trade these sneakers. The problem came up when somebody tried to return these NFTs or trade these NFTs for actual sneakers, which is what their actual utility is anyways. It turns out that what they received was not authentic. There's actually a lawsuit that's currently making its way through courts center around that because essentially they issued these NFT that are represented by real shoes, but one of those shoes were not authentic. So that became an issue.

51:52

Jason

I think that's an interesting use case for NFT. Nike is looking at doing this themselves, but they'll issue an NFT included with the shoes that they sell and then use that as a way to track them and attract the secondary market or get some benefit from secondary market sales. I know that there are companies looking at that as well. Where if you were to resell this, like here, you have an entity that represents the digital equivalent of your real world purchase. However, if you sell it, 10% of the royalty goes back to another company. Let's say I can imagine a heritage watch brand like, let's say Patek Philippe or something saying, okay, hey, here's this watch, and here's the NFT that goes with it. However, every time it's sold, some of it goes back to the Patek Philippe Company or something like that.

52:46

Jason

I can envision something like that happening. I'm also really interested to see how companies like Faith Connexion, I have to shout out Wahid Chammas, CEO of Faith Connexion. They recently launched Faith tribe. We work very closely with them. They launched faith Tribe, their token, which was an enormous success, native token, although they've created a system whereby you can have NFTs connected to their luxury clothing connection. You can essentially buy that alongside an NFT digital representation of the clothes, and then you can actually wear those NFTs in the meadow, for example. In addition, they also made it to where people can vote on certain designs. Those designs, the successful ones, end up becoming actual real world designs. Of course, they have an NFT attached to them. I think those use cases are going to be really like those use cases are going to be really fascinating how that evolves.

53:57

Jason

I'm more interested in seeing that than these. More cookie cutter, here's a free NFT because you participated type thing.

54:07

Nadja

Yeah, it's interesting because on the one hand, you have these companies, like Tiffany's, for example, who recently released this limited edition crypto punk's pendants. You have companies as the one you mentioned, where it really is web3 focus, but at the same time doesn't only jump on the bandwagon of, okay, let's see where this technology and the strand is going to go, but really builds an entire community around what this technology can offer. With that, we've come to the end of an especially informative hour of AdLunam's Future of NFTs series. Jason, it's been delightful speaking to you. I'm so glad that we got to have you on today because we talk nonstop in house on a daily basis. Today the AdLunam community is also able to enjoy the pleasure of your expertise. So thank you for your time. As for the audience, thank you so much for joining in today and sharing this time with us.

55:02

Nadja

As you often do on a weekly basis, it's really your commitment to deepening your own understanding of this big, brave world of web3 that keeps all of us going. If you've loved what you've heard on the show today, be sure to follow Jason, who as AdLunam's co-founder, can be found on Twitter at tokenjay. Of course, via the AdLunam Twitter handle AdLunam Inc. I will catch you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers, guys.