You've told your parents you're not available during work hours. They keep calling anyway.   You've asked them not to comment on your weight. They bring it up again on the next visit.   You've said no to those random Amazon gifts. Another package arrives at your door.   Many parents know how to set boundaries, but get stuck when someone won't respect them. In this summary episode, therapist Nedra Glover Tawwab shares practical strategies for enforcing boundaries when people repeatedly ignore or dismiss them.   You'll learn about

• the "fire extinguisher method" for stopping uncomfortable conversations before they spiral
• how to embody your boundaries through your actions (not just your words)
• how to navigate the especially tricky situation where you rely on someone for childcare but they won't respect your limits.

  Nedra also discusses her new children's book and works through real scenarios about unwanted gifts, body-shaming comments, and what to do when setting a boundary means potentially losing support you need.   This conversation gets honest about the hard choices enforcing boundaries sometimes requires. Can you really maintain a boundary with someone you depend on? What do you do when the person provides childcare for you?   Nedra offers a clear framework for deciding when to stand firm, how to take action when words aren't working, and why allowing people to be upset with you is part of the process.  

Questions this episode will answer

How do you deal with someone who doesn't respect boundaries? Enforce the boundary through your behavior, not just your words. If someone keeps calling during work hours after you've asked them not to, don't answer the phone. If they bring unwanted gifts, donate them immediately or return them to the gift-giver. You can't control what they do, but you can control what you do.   Why is setting boundaries so hard? We often learned in our families of origin that setting boundaries leads to rejection or anger. We worry about people being mad at us, the relationship ending, or being seen as selfish. These fears come from early experiences where our caregivers responded poorly when we tried to express our needs and boundaries.   How do you enforce boundaries when words aren't working? Use behavioral enforcement. Stop answering calls during the times you've said you're unavailable. Use the "fire extinguisher method" to interrupt conversations the moment they start heading toward topics you've said are off-limits. Show through your actions that you meant what you said.   What is the fire extinguisher method for boundaries? Jump in to stop conversations before they get going, the way you'd use a fire extinguisher on a small flame before it spreads. When someone starts bringing up a topic you've clearly said you won't discuss, interrupt them immediately: "I know where this is going, and I don’t want to talk about it.”   Why do people get upset when you set boundaries? Some people are used to being able to say or do whatever they want in the relationship. Your boundary ‘brushes up against’ their expectation of having full access to you or being able to speak freely. They may also genuinely believe you need to hear what they have to say.   Should you be with someone who doesn't respect your boundaries? This depends on the severity of the violation and your level of dependence. If someone provides childcare but also body shames you, you may need to find alternative childcare to truly maintain the boundary. Sometimes you have to choose between the support someone offers and having your boundaries respected. You might accept that certain behaviors come as part of the "package," or you might want to reduce your reliance on that person.   Is setting boundaries selfish? Other people may call you selfish when you set boundaries because your limits inconvenience them or challenge their expectations. But protecting your time, energy, and well-being isn't selfish. Your emotional regulation is not someone else's responsibility, and their emotional regulation is not yours.   What do you do when you rely on someone who won't respect your boundaries? You have to decide whether you can accept that certain boundary violations come with the support they provide, or whether you want to explore other options. This might mean finding alternative childcare, reducing financial dependence, or building a "chosen family" support system.   How do you enforce firm boundaries without cutting people out of your life? You can maintain a relationship while still enforcing boundaries through your behavior. Don't answer calls during work hours even if they keep calling. Stop conversations immediately when they head toward off-limit topics. Return unwanted gifts. You're not ending the relationship - you're defining how it works.   What does boundaries versus control mean? Boundaries are about what you will do, not about controlling what someone else does. Telling someone "don't call me during work" is actually trying to control their behavior. The boundary is: "I won't answer calls during work hours." The distinction matters because you can only control yourself.  

What you'll learn in this episode

• Why enforcing boundaries requires behavioral changes, not just verbal statements
• How to use the "fire extinguisher method" to stop conversations that cross your boundaries
• What to do when someone keeps calling, texting, or contacting you after you've asked them not to
• Specific strategies for handling unwanted gifts from family members without adding to your mental load
• How to respond when parents or in-laws make repeated comments about your body, parenting, or life choices
• Why "allowing people to be upset with you" is a necessary part of maintaining boundaries
• When you might want to choose between receiving support and having your boundaries respected
• How to know if you should accept boundary violations as part of a "package deal" with childcare or other help
• Ways to build alternative support systems when family won't respect your limits
• The difference between boundaries (what you control) and attempts to control others' behavior
• How to help kids understand boundaries around physical touch and when you need space
• What to say to children who want immediate attention when you're not available

 

Nedra Glover Tawwab's website:

nedratawab.com   Jump to highlights: 01:34 Introduction of today’s guest and today’s topic 04:14 An open invitation to the Black Friday sale coming up in late November 05:03 What is a boundary? 05:25 What’s the difference between a boundary and a limit? 07:34 How does Nedra handle situations when someone keeps ignoring boundaries you've set, even after you've clearly explained why they matter? 16:20 Nedra says, “If we set boundaries for people, we want them to change.” 19:01 Jen and Nedra talk about how to set boundaries when it comes to their children 21:30 Nedra shares about her new children’s book, “What Makes You Happy” 23:59 Wrapping up 24:54 Jen tells where to connect with Nedra Glover Tawwab to access her books, quizzes, and other boundary-setting tools

Nedra: 00:00

And I think my work is to allow people to be upset with me. Like it is okay for you to be upset with me. Your emotional regulation is not my regulation.

Jessica: 00:13

Do you get tired of hearing the same old intros to podcast episodes? Me too. Hi, I'm not Jen. I'm Jessica and I'm in rural East Panama. Jen has just created a new way for listeners to record the introductions to podcast episodes and I got to test it out. There's no other resource out there quite like Your Parenting Mojo, which doesn't just tell you about the latest scientific research on parenting and child development, but puts it in context for you as well. So, you can decide whether and how to use this new information. If you'd like to get new episodes in your inbox, along with a free infographic on 13 reasons your child isn't listening to you and what to do about each one, sign up at yourparentingmojo.com/subscribe and come over to our free Facebook group to continue the conversation about this episode. You can also thank Jen for this episode by donating to keep the podcast ad-free by going to the page for this or any other episode on yourparentingmojo.com. If you'd like to start a conversation with someone about this episode or know someone who would find it useful, please forward it to them. Over time, you're going to get sick of hearing me read this intro as well. So come and record one yourself. You can read from a script she's provided or have some real fun with it and write your Just go to yourparentingmojo.com and click readtheintro. I can't wait to hear yours.

Jen Lumanlan: 01:34

Hello and welcome to the Your Parenting Mojo podcast. Today, I'm here with the one and only Nedra Glover-Tawwab, who's going to teach us everything we need to know about boundaries because her book, Set Boundaries, Find Peace, was a New York Times bestseller. She's also written six more books, including most recently a children's book called What Makes You Happy. Nedra has over 18 years of experience in relationship therapy and is founder and owner of Kaleidoscope Consulting, a group therapy practice. Her gift lies in helping people cultivate relationships with themselves and with others as well. And I did want to remind you we're trying some new things here in Your Parenting Mojo world. And sometimes you might notice that we have decorated the entire studio. Sometimes I record these intros and outros right after I talk to the person. And in this case, there was like 10 days in between the two and I got a really bad cold that you can probably still hear in my voice.

Jen Lumanlan: 02:32

So, a lot of things have changed. If you want to hop over to YouTube, you'll be able to see some of those. I also know that you want to get to the key ideas in the episodes much faster. And so now I'm releasing just the key insights that I get from the guests that I talk with and the research that I do. So many of us know that we have to set boundaries, right? We know what we want to say, but then the other person ignores us or gets angry or tells us we're being selfish and we get stuck. And so today we're going to focus our conversation really specifically about what to do in those moments. How do you actually embody a boundary when somebody won't respect it? What do you do when you're reliant on someone who keeps violating your boundaries? And what does the fire extinguisher method have to do with any of this? So Nedra is going to walk us through some really tricky scenarios that parents in the Parenting Membership have asked me about related to things like disagreements with our parents over our values when we rely on them for child care and when our children won't give us space. Plus, we'll hear about her new children's book that teaches kids these skills early. Of course, there was a lot more to this conversation. We talked about why setting boundaries is so hard in the first place. All those fears that we have about people being mad at us or the relationship ending.

Jen Lumanlan: 03:53

Nedra shared a really powerful story about an interaction with a family member that shaped her relationship with food for years. We explored how to know whether it's the right time to set a boundary in your relationship with another person. So if you want to hear that full conversation, it's available on the private podcast feed in the Parenting Membership. Speaking of the membership, starting January 1st, twenty twenty-six, we are opening year-round enrollment and we have a special Black Friday sale coming up in late November. If you join through that sale, you'll get instant access to full episodes like our conversation with Nedra and all of our coaching call recordings, even though you don't have to dive into the full membership content until you have more time in the New year. You can learn more and sign up for the waitlist to get access to even more bonuses on Black Friday at yourparentingmojo.com/parentingmembership. All right, let's go ahead and get into this conversation with Nedra.

Jen Lumanlan: 04:54

Welcome, Nedra. It's so great to have you here.

Nedra: 04:55

Thank you for that warm introduction.

Jen Lumanlan: 04:58

Yeah, you're welcome. So I wonder if we can start with a definition. What's a boundary?

Nedra: 05:03

A boundary is a way that we express our needs, wants, or desires in relationships. A boundary can be verbal or it could be something that we do with our behavior.

Jen Lumanlan: 05:15

Okay. And in my work, I distinguish a lot between boundaries and limits. And I'm wondering if you draw that same distinction. What's the difference between a boundary and a limit for you?

Nedra: 05:25

You don't know if I draw that distinction between like boundary, limits, rules, because I think they all merge at some point or they can merge. There can be some overlap. So I think just in general, like when have you reached your limit? What is the boundary? Is how I might consider that sometimes.

Jen Lumanlan: 05:47

In the full conversation, we talked through some reasons why setting boundaries is difficult for us, which has a lot to do with our relationships in our families of origin. And that can create a lot of fear in us if we try to set a boundary because we worry that we won't be liked if we do it. Then we got into some difficult questions that parents in the Parenting Membership submitted when I let them know that I was interviewing Nedra, which centered around what to do when we try to set a boundary and the other person, whether it's an adult or a child, ignores it or gets angry or tells us we're being selfish. This is where things get really tricky. And this is the part that I wanted to make sure that we covered today, because knowing how to set a boundary is one thing, but knowing what to do when someone won't accept it is where many of us get stuck.

Jen Lumanlan: 06:31

I work with parents and one parent actually particularly brought this up in the Parenting Membership when I said that I was going to be talking with you and saying, you know, I try and set boundaries. It's not that it's year 31 and I've never set a boundary before. It's that I've been trying to set this boundary for years and the person keeps telling me, I'm selfish or that they're not going to respect that boundary. And I don't want to cut them out of my life over this thing. How do I navigate that? What do you say to somebody who's in that situation?

Nedra: 07:01

Do you know what that boundary is?

Jen Lumanlan: 07:04

I don't. My sense was there was a parental example, like, you know, my own parent is not respecting me when I say I'm not available X time or I don't want to interact with you in this way. And then they actually specifically gave...

Nedra: 07:20

I love those examples.

Jen Lumanlan: 07:22

That's the first one. The second one is when our kids are like, I want to play or I want to be in physical contact with you. And we're like, I need space. So those would be the two kind of big examples that I think come up most often for parents I work.

Nedra: 07:34

So let's go to the first one. The first one, I think so often we think our boundaries are about telling other people what to do, right? Like, I'm not available at that time. Don't call me at that time. It's your boundary. So you have to embody it. You mentioned the top of this call. You said, is your ringer off or your notifications silenced, right? So we have the opportunity to actually not be accessible. If I ask someone, hey, I'm working from... And I've had this issue. This is the issue I've dealt with family members as well, where you say to a person, hey, I work from eight to five. So calling me like several times throughout the day, I can't really talk. This person is like, I'm not listening to that. They get upset if you don't answer all of these things. You still don't have to answer. And I think my work is to allow people to be upset with me. Like, it is okay for you to be upset with me. Your emotional regulation is not my regulation. And so if I am embodying my boundary in this scenario, I cannot answer the phone when you call. I've already said it. So it's not like you're unaware of what's happening. It has been said, but you are trying not to respect it. I will respect my own boundary by not answering the phone because I am unavailable.

Jen Lumanlan: 09:08

Can I complicate this by offering a couple of examples that it's not so easy to just be unavailable? Example one might be, you're in a room with your parent. You see them regularly. Maybe they provide childcare for you. So, you're somewhat reliant on them on a regular basis. And they continually make comments about your weight. And you have told them that you don't want to hear comments about your weight and they keep bringing it up. So that's an example. And then another one, I'm actually having a conversation with a parent later this week about unwanted holiday gifts. And I have said many times that I don't want to receive gifts from a certain large online retailer because it doesn't fit with my values. I don't want to have random surprise gifts that are mass-produced that you, my parent, don't really have the money for anyway and I don't have space in my house for. And yet you bring this stuff into my home. Do I stand at the door and physically block you from entering my home holding this dancing cactus thing? So, what do you do when it's harder to just turn off the ringer and say, I'm not available?

Nedra: 10:16

So in the case of gifts, if you have communicated, here it goes again, like boundaries are verbal or they can be behavioral. So even though you don't want to adopt the behavior of rejecting the gift, that sounds like that is the boundary needed when you've been clear with a person that you don't want a gift and they keep violating the boundary. If they refuse to accept the gift, okay, I'm going to take this gift to the goodwill. I'm going to re-gift this gift, being very clear. You know, at that point, I feel like you have done as much as you can. In a situation where someone is bringing up a topic such as your body or dating or when you're going to have another child or whatever it is, when they're bringing up those things, I think we have to extinguish those immediately like it's a fire.

Nedra: 11:13

Oh my gosh, you're getting me. Like you have to jump in before they're able to finish their statement. If you've told someone, I do not want to talk about said topic, allowing them to finish what they're saying and answering their questions, talking about the topic are all opportunities for them to violate your boundary. So, they may feel like, well, you talk about it or you respond to it. Yes, it's gaslighting, right? They know you don't want to talk about this thing but you don't have to answer every question particularly when someone has told you they don't want to talk about it. You can stop conversations before they get too deep. Another personal example, my mother was trying to get into this conversation about me communicating with a particular family member who I don't have a relationship with. And she was like, I just think you would... I know where this is going and I don't think it's a topic we should talk about because that is our relationship is not a relationship between you, me and them, right? And so about two minutes later, I was just trying to... I think what you were trying to say, your heart is in the right place but it's also not your relationship to maintain. Well, what if I don't think you should do... The sentences weren't even finished. After that third time, she just stopped. She said, I know. This is not a conversation that we can have. We've talked about it. We've went over it. We did a whole PowerPoint. I had a slideshow. I've sent text messages, voice notes and messages in a bottle, okay? So there is no more conversation needed about this thing. And the only way to stop the conversation is about this thing, is to literally stop it because you continue to violate the boundary and try to have the conversation. And what I'm saying is, it's not a conversation that we need to have. I love you. I want a relationship with you. This is not something that we can talk about.

Jen Lumanlan: 13:46

Yeah, that really resonates for me. I am also imagining a parent...

Nedra: 13:53

I love it.

Jen Lumanlan: 13:55

...who maybe is reliant on their parent for childcare support. And they're using the fire extinguisher method to get out of these conversations about whatever is the topic that they're setting that boundary on. And maybe their own emotionally immature parent is like, well, clearly you don't respect me. And so why would I provide childcare for you? And so I'm not available for you anymore. And so if we're having that with somebody who has the emotional maturity, which sounds like your mom eventually was able to say, okay, yeah, I get that Nedra wants to have this relationship with me and not talk about this thing, right? These two things can go together. But what if our parents can't do that?

Nedra: 14:36

Yeah, I think that's really tough. And I think that is an opportunity for us to explore other resources if we have the means. And that's why, at times, chosen family is really important. Maybe it's our siblings, maybe it's our neighbors, maybe it's our friends if we can't afford childcare. But having to rely on a person who body shames you is a difficult relationship to be in. I'm not saying leave the relationship, but I think the reliance on that person for this thing, it's really tough. It's like when people talk about like, my parents financially support me, but they want to tell me what to do. You're in a tough situation. I think you have to support yourself. I don't think we can have, we can't depend on them for financial resources and then expect them not to say anything about our lives. I mean, that would be beautiful if they didn't, but it sounds like those aren't your parents. And so if you want to really stand in this like, hey, hey, hey, hey, you have to be able to do this thing without their support.

Nedra: 15:48

And I think that's the really hard work for us because it's like, oh my gosh, I want both things. And sometimes we can't have both things. Now you can accept that a part of the babysitting package is body shaming. That might be a part of the babysitting package. If you don't want that package, you have other options that you may need to work on exploring. You need to see this as a temporary childcare option because it comes with body shaming. So I think that's the hard part. When we are placing boundaries with people, we want them to change. We don't want to do the work, right? It's like, if I give this person my boundary and they just listen to it and they do it, my life is perfect. It's like, sometimes people don't operate that way. And people do have a right to say, well, that brushes up against my boundary of being able to say whatever I want to you. I want to be really honest with you.

Jen Lumanlan: 16:42

You know, it's like…

Nedra: 16:42

I don't want you to-

Jen Lumanlan: 16:45

Because I think you need to hear exactly what I think about you.

Nedra: 16:47

Yeah, I think you need to hear exactly what I think about you. I don't want that from you.

Jen Lumanlan: 16:55

Okay. That's really helpful. Let's come back and close some more loops with sort of the holiday gift. What if I have been very transparent about, yeah, I'm going to donate this stuff and then I actually donate this stuff and I resent the time and energy it takes to deal with the buy nothing group, to put the thing out on the curb, to take it to goodwill. And I just don't want that to be on my mental load. Is there another place to set that boundary so that I don't have to own that part of the challenge?

Nedra: 17:26

I remember when I was in college and a friend would drive somewhere and you would try to like give them gas money. It would be like, here's $10. And I had one friend be like, I don't need your money. It's like, no, you're going to take my $10. And you would just look one day and you got $10 in your jacket pocket. You're like, oh, she really gave it back. You know, I think with this gift thing, what if it's that? What if it's like, okay, you refuse to take it. It will show up on your porch. Like it'll be your thing because I'm going to show you how much I don't want it. Maybe I'll put it in your trunk while you're eating dinner. And I say, hey, I'm going outside. I don't know. Like maybe we make a game out of it but I'm giving it back to you. I'm giving it back to you. I'm grateful for people who are like, no, no, I really don't want your gas because the tendency or gas money, you know, the tendency is to be like, no, I don't want to take advantage of you. I want to give you something. But there are some people who are like, no, I really don't want it. And so, you know what that teaches me? When somebody puts $10 back in your pocket, they are serious. Do not even offer them gas money anymore because they won't let you give it to them.

Jen Lumanlan: 18:47

Yeah. I mean, I could imagine collecting up all the stuff in a box and the next time I go over to visit, leaving it on the back porch. So it's not even a thing we have to talk about while I'm there.

Nedra: 18:57

Yeah, here's your stuff that you've given me.

Jen Lumanlan: 19:01

Yeah, okay. All right, thank you. And then closing one more loop, we had to opened up the idea of boundaries with kids, right? I want to hug you. I want to be on your body. I want mental space, right?

I want physical space. How do you navigate that with a kid who might not fully understand yet what boundaries are? Or if we try to say, I want physical space, they're like, no. And they glom on tighter.

Nedra: 19:24

Yeah, I find with kids, what can be really helpful is giving them another time for that opportunity. You know, I get a lot of, can you do Legos right now? It's like, I'm folding clothes. I actually cannot do Legos right now. Can you color right now? It's like, okay, let's do it at six o'clock. Let's have some cuddle time at 5.30. Let's, you know, giving them a time where you can gather yourself and like get into the mindset of doing the thing that they think is like an immediate need. It's like, you have a need. Thank you for expressing that. Right now, I'm going to continue with my activity or I'm going to, you know, take some time for myself. In about 30 minutes, I'm going to come back to you and I'm going to hug you five times. You know, so giving them the opportunity to get what they need, but also saying right now in this moment, I need my body for myself. I need time to myself. I need some space. Let's think about, you know, another time to do that.

Jen Lumanlan: 20:36

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And a related idea that I find often is helpful is if we can find some capacity to be physically with the child in the way they want right now and we can say, yes, I can do this for X minutes and then I'm going to take some space, do my thing, right? And if we can meet that child's need for connection upfront, then potentially they're more willing to actually separate from us. Yes. Further down the line.

Jen Lumanlan: 21:04

All right. So we've been talking about how we as adults can navigate setting boundaries, especially with people who resist them. But what about our kids? How do we help them learn these skills? And that's actually what Nedra's new book is all about. Okay. And so related to helping kids learn about boundaries, you have a new book. It's called What Makes You Happy.

Nedra: 21:22

Yes.

Jen Lumanlan: 21:23

Can you tell us what age range of kids it's for and the kinds of scenarios that are worked through in that book? And why did you choose them?

Nedra: 21:30

Yes. So it is for children four to eight years old. And some of the scenarios are about people pleasing and wanting to do the thing that everybody else wants to do and finding a way to weave yourself into your experiences. This book is about Avery who is trying to figure out a way to celebrate her birthday. And instead of doing the thing that she wants to do. And, you know, in some points in a book, you're like, she doesn't even know. People are reminding her; this is what you like to do. This is what you want. And sometimes we need those reminders from the people around us to bring us back to center to say, why are we going to this Italian restaurant, you love Mexican. What are we doing here? So the earlier we can learn, there is space for me in this experience that I'm creating, the better. It's not about, we want to be considerate of people, but we also want to consider ourselves, especially for big events, for our weddings, for our, you know, graduations, for our birthdays, for those big moments, you know, centering yourself. It literally is about you. Literally your birthday.

Jen Lumanlan: 22:48

So I believe someone told me who is Chinese-American and has Chinese parents that in China, your birthday is the day you celebrate your mother, the person who gave birth to you.

Nedra: 23:00

I'm with that. I am with that. I love that because I do feel like my kid's birthday is my birthday. It's like actually one time for the mom. Okay.

Jen Lumanlan: 23:13

So I am actually hoping there's going to be another book that focuses on the relationship of boundaries between parents and kids, because this is very much focused on sort of kids, right? Kids navigating, who am I in this relationship with my peers? And I'm also hoping for a book on Who Am I In My Relationship With My Parents? Is there any chance that's on the horizon?

Nedra: 23:31

I don't know. I think you just gave me an outline for it. So maybe it could be, I think, you know, there are so many opportunities for kids to learn those skills and to apply them with, you know, their peers, with their parents, with siblings and a whole host of other folks. But the way we learned about boundaries is really in relationships with people.

Jen Lumanlan: 23:59

Yep. So just to recap what we covered today, setting boundaries can be hard because we're afraid of how people react. We think they'll be angry or hurt or that the relationship will freeze or end. And we often learn that patterning in our family of origin. When someone does resist our boundary, we actually have options. We can embody that boundary ourselves, like not answering the phone during work hours, even if someone keeps calling. We can stop conversations before they get going using that fire extinguisher approach. And sometimes we do have to accept we can't have everything we want. If someone provides childcare, but also body shames us, we might want to find other childcare options if we want to maintain that boundary. The hard truth is that boundaries are not about getting other people to change their behavior. They're about what we do. And that can mean making tough choices about who we rely on and how we structure our lives. If you want to learn more about Nedra's work, you can find her at nedratawab.com. That's T-A-W-W-A-B. Her website links to her Instagram, as well as quizzes and free resources to help you on your journey. And her new children's book, What Makes You Happy, is available wherever you get books. Thanks so much for listening and I will see you next time.

Jessica: 25:18

Hi, this is Jess from rural East Panama. I'm a Your Parenting Mojo fan and I hope you enjoy this show as much as I do. If you found this episode, especially enlightening or useful, you can also donate to help Jen produce more content like this and also save us from those interminable mattress ads. Then you can do that and also subscribe on the link that Jen just mentioned. And don't forget to head to yourparentingmojo.com to record your own message for the show.