Pavel Sivakov has found comfort in change. After six years at Ineos and Sky he traded one super team for another - joining UAE Emirates for the 2024 season.

A key lieutenant to Tadej Pogacar at the Tour de France and Il Lombardia he faced off against his teammate in national colours at the World Championships this year and was the only man capable of sticking with the dominant Slovenian in the middle phase of the race. Pavel shares the difference between two of cycling's biggest teams, why he made the change and why he chose to represent France instead of Russia on the international stage.

The Odd Tandem is a Shocked Giraffe production. This episode was produced by Mark Payne with music provided by Taylor Phinney.

You can hear an ad free version of the podcast on the Odd Tandem pateron Pateron.com/oddtandem You can also find us on social media by searching @OddTandem

For me, this is the most impressive

ride of the year.

2

This was. This was crazy.

3

I’ve been in his wheel,.

4

you know, I've seen how many watts

I was pushing and how strong he was.

5

Right. And this was just insane.

6

Hello and welcome back

to another episode of The Odd Tandem.

7

Today

our guest came from a cycling family,

8

worked his way up from the juniors

to a under 23 development program,

9

and now into the world tour

with the most dominant team in the world.

10

He's had some changes in his life,

including nationality

11

and of course, switching from one big team

to another.

12

But Jensie, how cool was it talking with

Pavel Sivakov today.

13

It was. It was a pleasure.

14

And I had so many flashbacks

from the good old days

15

because I believe you too Bobby.

16

We both raced with his dad.

17

He signed his first contract in 98

with, French team.

18

Big Mat Aubervillier back then.

19

So we probably raced many,

many French Cup races and Tour

20

a Med and Étoile de Bessèges with his dad.

21

Shows us how old we are.

22

But great chat with the son and you can

see he is one of the new generation.

23

And one

thing that I wish I would have asked him

24

that I forgot to during our interview

was how many languages does he speak?

25

Because his English command

of his English of the English language

26

was pretty impressive.

27

So please sit back, relax and enjoy

28

our great conversation with Pavel.

29

Sivakov.

30

Okay everyone, welcome back to another

episode of the Odd tandem Pavel Sivakov.

31

Welcome to the show.

32

Thank you.

33

Thank you.

34

It's a pleasure to be to be with you guys.

35

Well, I really appreciate you coming on

and agreeing so quickly

36

to come on, because,

I mean, you just got finished

37

racing in China

like in the middle of October.

38

And here we are on election day

in the United States, November 5th.

39

What have you been up to

40

I went straight

41

to, to our team building, in Abu Dhabi.

42

And then, I stay, one more week in

UAE with my girlfriend for some holidays,

43

and I'm currently in Barcelona with,

44

my mom and sister

also spending some time with them here.

45

So, yeah, just,

enjoying my offseason so far.

46

So it's been great.

47

It's been great, recovering from,

from a long season,

48

especially the second part

has been quite busy for me.

49

I had an injury,

in the beginning of the of the year,

50

and yeah, there has been quite,

Let's see.

51

Yeah, I'll just say quite busy

with racing in training camps from.

52

Yeah, from I would say April

from May until until October.

53

Hey, before, before we

54

go deep end to this,

we have a quick session of a quick fire.

55

Questions.

56

Four questions

short answers please. Ready?

57

Yes, yes, yes.

58

Okay.

59

What's better for your French

or Italian cuisine for you?

60

I have to say,

Italian has always, is always better.

61

I, I'm more of a fan of Italian cuisine.

62

What do you prefer?

63

Domestique deluxe or be to captain,

but have to deal with all the stress?

64

Well, first off, one,

65

I guess, you don't always,

the aim is to be a captain.

66

Told you

I really like the domestique role.

67

I think, as much as I enjoy it,

you know,

68

I think I, I like, I like to win races

and that's that's, that's the aim.

69

So, you know, I, I know how to

when to to be domestique.

70

I really enjoy, you know, when,

when I have a leader

71

that is stronger than me,

I always, I always got this role.

72

But when I have a chance,

I always also love to be to be a leader.

73

What's better for you?

74

The French champion jersey

or a yellow jersey in Paris Nice

75

The French champion jerseys is.

76

Yeah, you know, you have to

you can wear it one year and it's

77

I think for me is beautiful Jersey

something.

78

Yeah.

79

With a very special to wear

I think especially if you

80

if you were selected

for the tour that year.

81

I think that's, that's something yeah.

82

Something special as a Frenchman.

83

And what would be your dream car?

84

Renault Alpine or a Porsche?

85

A Porsche, definitely just me. Porshe.

86

That's.

87

That's not even a question.

88

Thank you.

89

Wow. So I got to go back to what you said

about

90

finishing your last race

and going straight to team building.

91

Jens and I were on a team called CSC

with Bjarne Riis and BS Christiansen,

92

and they kind of coined

that term team building.

93

And we actually went out

and did some pretty crazy things.

94

I mean, we were on army bases,

we were doing simulated fire drills.

95

We were building bridges,

we were shooting guns.

96

I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

97

Cross-country skiing, downhill skiing.

98

What do you guys do at your team building?

99

At UAE Emirates?

100

Actually, we we have like some riders,

101

they have quite a lot of, quite

a lot of meetings with the local sponsors.

102

There is in UAE.

103

Then we have like some activities

also as a team.

104

Actually this year I kind of missed

the main meeting I got sick the last day

105

and the team, the guys went for like

karting races and I missed that part.

106

But yeah, I think it's nothing.

107

Nothing. Just as.

108

Yeah, as crazy as you,

you just described.

109

I think that's, Yeah.

110

Like, it's like proper team building,

111

like, like,

you know, going, like, kind of army stuff.

112

I actually I heard about these stories

you just said.

113

And, Yeah,

that sounds sounds like a lot of fun.

114

I think ours is more basic,

you know, also in the evening,

115

we we do with the guys

we go for, for some drinks, in the bar

116

and just, just enjoying some time

together, you know, because actually,

117

as you guys know, like,

we see, we see each other.

118

I am now in in October and then in

December for the, the training camp.

119

But then in the season, like, there is

some guys I didn't even see this year.

120

And it has been almost a year.

121

That's, that I didn't see them.

122

So it's always nice to be all together.

123

And, you know, to, to build this group.

124

And I think in any way, we do have

a really nice group of guys and,

125

it's always

enjoyable to to spend this time

126

with my team-mates.

127

So it is, camp was more about

128

getting each other to know, integrating

you right

129

us into the team and maybe looking

looking ahead to the next season.

130

Or you already did some training

or was more

131

pleasure leisure

and just talking a little bit.

132

Yeah.

133

Was more like like you said, it was more

about getting to know each other,

134

getting the new riders into the group,

135

doing some, some like activities to.

136

Yeah, to to get to know each other.

137

Although most of the guys

138

already know each other and, yeah,

we didn't train at all.

139

We did like one one, one ride.

140

Two rides actually, with,

141

there for the, for the local club

142

also celebrating,

the, the best team of the year.

143

So, yeah, we didn't train at all.

144

Everyone just finished

the season everyone.

145

Some guys are deep in the offseason.

Actually.

146

Some of them also restarted training.

147

I just finished my season.

148

You know how it goes. And,

149

no, it wasn't training at all, was just

I get to get together.

150

Really?

151

Well, talking about the 2024

152

season,

you and your UAE Emirates Teammates

153

pretty much dominated 81 wins,

154

54 second places, 48 third places.

155

I hope you guys celebrated.

156

I know that that's kind of a faux

pas in in cycling these days

157

because everyone's

watching their their weight and whatnot.

158

But, I mean,

that was such a dominating performance.

159

What do you think you guys can do

160

in next year to be as successful,

or even more so

161

because I don't think

I've ever seen a team with that many,

162

not only that many wins,

but that many podiums.

163

On top of that.

164

Yeah, definitely.

165

We did celebrate that you know.

166

You know, we got a bit of a so no, it was

167

it was an amazing season

for for the team that’s for sure.

168

You know, I mean we also had

a lot of different riders winning.

169

That's that's also something that's,

170

that's

that's quite crazy about our season.

171

I think I think must be like around

20 different riders,

172

having won a race this year.

173

Plus, like everything several guys

winning a lot as well.

174

I think it's going to be hard

to, to do better in this, really.

175

In terms of numbers.

176

Yeah.

177

Numbers of wins, but also the victories

we got, especially with Tadej,

178

you know, in the team.

179

I mean, it's hard to, to ask for better

probably the, the only bad.

180

Yeah.

181

The better things we could have done

is maybe win the three Grand tours

182

or something crazy like this, but

183

even then, I think we can only be happy

about about our season and

184

yeah, try, try to do better of course,

next year.

185

But, you know, even then I think.

186

Yeah, just, just keep this dynamic.

187

I think estimating the dynamic of winning,

you know,

188

there is a real winning culture

in the team when I joined the team,

189

I felt this, you know,

when everyone really strives to to win.

190

And I think I think that's why we win

so much.

191

It's just this,

this will to win from everyone.

192

And that just drives

everyone also to, to do the same,

193

but at the same time, you know, working

very well together.

194

But, you know, when we have

an opportunity, we, we always go for it.

195

And and I think, yeah, that's,

that's why it was so

196

yeah, such a successful season.

197

And the team is so successful as well.

198

I'm glad you

199

mentioned, that so many different riders

of your team won it,

200

because that's something

you always laugh about teams

201

when they have a variety of riders

winning.

202

And, I would have ask you about it,

but you mention it.

203

So yeah, that's a really good point

for any team because it shows, you know,

204

that the team works together

and are all willing to take and give,

205

what what

206

result after all these,

fantastic wins the team and what result

207

you, personally most proud of?

208

For me,

209

I guess I guess my yeah, my top

ten in the world was good.

210

I wouldn't say I have, like, one result.

211

That stands out this season,

212

I think is more it's

more the, the progression.

213

I mean, I had during the season,

I think I finished

214

really well, like,

I've been in a lot of my, like, records,

215

once, you know, watts records in the world

tour and afterwards also in Lombardia,

216

I guess the, the race that

217

I will remember the most would be

maybe Lombardia this year.

218

I was feeling really good there.

219

Tadej won, he smashed the race as he

he usually does.

220

But the behind, you know,

I still had the legs to fight for podium,

221

and I think I did have the legs

to be on the podium that day.

222

You know, tactically, maybe

I mismanaged the final, but no, I think,

223

that's just, I would say one of the,

my best races this year, but obviously,

224

I really enjoy also the Vuelta

and also the tour de France, you know,

225

winning

this month is the first time, I mean,

226

I win the tour as a team-mate

and this was such an amazing experience.

227

Also, the tour is always something special

and we are an amazing

228

group of riders there.

229

You know, a good laugh every day.

230

And I think, we showed on the road,

231

yeah.

232

How we, how we were as a group as well.

233

And yeah, I think is just,

234

you know, this year was a change for me.

235

You know, I did six year with Sky

and then Ineos and.

236

Yeah, it was about time to change it.

237

I think this,

this was like a bit of a fresh air and

238

yeah it had on me good I think is

239

I really enjoyed, racing this year.

240

Well we watched as fans

241

and in Jens’s case he commentated on

most of the big races of the sport.

242

So we're fans of the sport.

243

You know, we did it ourselves,

but we love watching it as well.

244

There were some amazing rides this year.

245

What in your opinion

was the most impressive ride from?

246

From any rider, you know, you being

in the race or even watching it on TV?

247

Well, for

me actually, I've been really close to it.

248

Was it the world's from Tadej?

249

For me, this is the most impressive

ride of of the year.

250

This was this was crazy.

I've been in his wheel.

251

You know, I've seen the how

252

how many Watts I was pushing

and how strong he was riding.

253

And this was just insane.

I think that day.

254

Yeah, he just stands out,

you know, so long by the

255

I was also there with him to,

to really witness the performance.

256

But for me worlds was something,

257

something else, you know,

it was like a 100kms from the finish.

258

Many really strong riders

also chasing behind.

259

Yeah, it's something we've never seen.

260

And I think we all witnessed like

some of the, the history of cycling there.

261

And yeah, for me

this was yeah, this was amazing.

262

Something. Yeah. Something just crazy.

263

And and how was it for you.

264

How did it feel to race against Tadej?

265

Not with him because you are

on your national team. Right.

266

And you had, some other French riders

they were looking good

267

or they tried to be, kept

or try to be in a top ten, top

268

five position and going into the race,

did you know

269

if I can stick on Tadej’s, wheel

I finished guaranteed second.

270

Was that an idea of yours?

271

Actually, yes.

272

This was I mean, when he joined my like,

273

I wasn't to like him in the front group

at this point.

274

And when he joined the group,

I was like, okay, now

275

I'm I'm actually feeling

pretty good today.

276

I think I'm going to, yeah, I'm

277

going to try and stay with him

as long as possible.

278

You know, if I can stay with him.

279

Yeah, it's maybe I believe in the podium

at one point and.

280

Yeah, then when he accelerated, I managed

281

to stay with him in this first part

of the of the climb in just a bit.

282

And he dropped me just just over the top.

283

And he looked back.

284

He seen I've been just behind.

He waited for me.

285

And I think this was the point

where he he really killed me because,

286

it was still quite a like around

five minutes until the top.

287

And I buried myself

just to stay in the wheel.

288

And actually, this

this course was really tough

289

because even after the climb,

you don't really have a moment to recover.

290

You constantly pressing on, you know, you

maybe have like 30 seconds but 30 seconds

291

one minute, but when you already go

so deep is almost impossible to recover.

292

And even in in the short downhill, it's,

it's almost not enough because it's,

293

it's really fast.

294

You have to keep the concentration

295

and. Yeah.

296

Yeah, I mean I went so deep there

to stay with him and enough to that.

297

Yeah I just yeah, I completely exploded

and yeah race was over.

298

But yeah, this this is why for me, it's

just it's just insane

299

how how good he was on that day. I mean,

300

yeah, like I

301

said, I've,

I've pushed great big watts in this climb.

302

And he was. Yeah.

303

He just managed to do almost

the same again on the next lap. And.

304

Yeah, it's, it was just,

305

just crazy to witness.

306

That must have been an amazing feeling,

307

knowing that you're witnessing

something like that, experiencing it.

308

Feeling it.

309

I mean, I had a beer in my hand,

so I wasn't feeling anything

310

when I was watching it, but

when I saw you on the wheel, I was like,

311

oh, my God, that is The Hurt Locker.

312

That is. That is tough.

313

But,

314

back in my day, I was never, as a rider.

315

I was never part of a tour de France

winning team.

316

But it was quite customary

where the winner

317

would do something special

for his team-mates.

318

Would you did Tadej do that for you guys?

319

And if you could, could you share

what what that gift or that gesture was.

320

Yeah.

321

He he got us or a nice watch, you know,

322

with our names on and, you know, something

to to remember this moment.

323

I think, is what is always

is always super nice, you know, from the

324

from the leader when you,

when you receive a nice gift, you know,

325

when you arrive home after training

and there is,

326

there is a nice gift for you

there, is always special, you know,

327

but, yeah, for me is also remembering,

you know,

328

all this journey

we had, during the tour is.

329

Yeah, it is. This is

this is super, super nice.

330

You know, this or this three weeks

and like, a little.

331

Yeah. Just like this.

332

You know, when you, when you,

333

when you wear the watch or you do see it,

it it you just remember straight away

334

these moments,

that we, we all go through and.

335

Yeah, it's is it's always nice to know

when, when the leader.

336

We appreciate your work and, you just

you just want to do it again.

337

Really?

338

I think, you know, as long as I can be

part of, of the, the tour de

339

France squad, you know, for me is always

an honour and a pleasure to to do it.

340

You know,

341

as we were talking in the beginning,

you ask me about domestique or leader.

342

I mean, I like to be a leader,

but when, you know, when you know that

343

you have a leader that is stronger

than you, you have to to accept it.

344

And embrace,

you know, the domestique role.

345

And it's something

also I really enjoy doing, especially

346

especially on the tour with,

you know, with the crowds,

347

also being a Frenchman

for me is a special race.

348

I just loved it this year.

349

It was, it was amazing.

350

And your team is

351

quite loaded with really strong

and talented riders.

352

Right.

353

Well, it's a question.

354

How how do you feel in there?

355

Does it keep you on your tippy toes?

356

Does it make you work harder

to earn your place

357

in this group of very strong, talented

riders?

358

And, second part of the question,

how early did you know you

359

in the tour de France team in a long team

or you know for sure in the team because,

360

you know, they cannot call you up

two weeks ago and go,

361

hey, in ten days

you're going to go to the tour, right?

362

It's a process to work towards that goal.

363

So how do you feel in

is in a team of superstars?

364

And since when did you know you're going

to be in the tour de France team?

365

I feel I feel good, you know,

I've been actually I've always

366

been in the team where we have

plenty of very talented riders.

367

Actually,

I think I've been really lucky with this,

368

from my beginnings,

you know, and for me is always

369

for me.

370

That's that's what,

371

that drives you.

372

You know, you have talented guys around

you, and you can never really relaxed.

373

You always have to work hard.

374

And, you know,

I feel like the team trusts me.

375

But also, you have to earn the spot,

you know,

376

you have to, to show them that

that's your.

377

Yeah, you earn this trust and and,

Yeah, it

378

just it's just something nice, you know,

so the motivation that it gives you

379

because you have like a bunch of really

motivated guys around you, like I said

380

about this winning culture, that's that's

what's really good about about having,

381

like, yeah, superstars around you

because, yeah, everyone is really driven.

382

Everyone is really professional

and works hard.

383

And it just creates this, this culture.

384

And that's what I, what I saw,

you know, with Sky when sky was

385

I joined the team when Sky was,

we'll say the team number one

386

and it was,

it was this, you know, a bunch of.

387

Yeah.

388

It's just this momentum

that, that it gives, you know, wins.

389

And when you have many riders winning

390

and yeah, we've made it, you know

391

in the last in the past couple years

it wasn't the case in this team.

392

But now I joined UAE and once again

I’m part again of a team

393

which has this momentum of, of winning.

394

And yeah, for me it's just it's

just nice to be there.

395

Of course is not always easy.

396

You know, I could have chosen, let's say,

397

not to be harsh,

but a smaller team when I would have,

398

more of a leadership role.

399

But I don't know, I really

I really enjoy being being around me.

400

Strong riders.

401

You also, you know,

402

even if I'm not the youngest rider

anymore, you're always learn from them.

403

And you always. Yeah.

404

From from all the riders and

and yes it's super nice.

405

And for the the second question

actually we knew

406

quite early

that, the, the tour de France team was

407

was already done I think last December.

408

So in December camp we have we,

we speak about the race program

409

and from there,

you know, accept any issues.

410

Like the main,

the main core of the team is already done.

411

And, yeah, actually we knew all the eight

riders already in December, so

412

I think this is

something really nice for me also.

413

You know,

I felt like the team did trust me.

414

And it was it was,

you know, something really good.

415

And I could just work towards this goal,

you know,

416

without too much pressure and

417

this, this was this was great actually,

418

I think I think it's a good way to do it.

419

Yeah.

420

That’s a plan your work and work your plan

sort of thing.

421

If you can tell the eight guys

that are doing the tour de France

422

that they're doing the tour de France

in December, and actually stick to that,

423

no doubt.

424

But I think

425

the issue, the issue, as you know, is

maybe someone gets sick or crashes out,

426

but we've been lucky last year

that all the year guys were healthy

427

and and ready to go for the tour.

428

So I think yeah, it's it's super good. No,

429

but you kind of touched on the reasons

430

why you transitioned, you know, from

431

from one of the biggest teams in the past

to the biggest team of the present.

432

But change.

433

Change is a primal fear

for a lot of people.

434

You know, we kind of do our thing.

435

We get used to a certain thing

we're there for, you know, at a team

436

like you were at at Sky

and Ineos for six years.

437

And then you're switching everything,

you're switching bikes, you're switching

438

clothing,

you're switching nutritional products,

439

you're switching

coaching staff and support staff.

440

How did

you make that transition so easily?

441

Because it's kind of hard

and it doesn't work 100% of the time

442

when you make the switch

443

and then all of a sudden

you're trusted with a tour de France spot.

444

Yeah.

445

No, I think I was at the end of the cycle

446

personally, and

I think it was about time to change and

447

actually it's been quite easy

to transition teams.

448

I have to say,

449

yeah.

450

Like you say with the bike actually,

maybe the injury, you know,

451

I had was like, you know, this little

452

when you change bikes it’s

always hard to find the perfect position.

453

And you know, I go like a niggle

go on under my knee.

454

And then it developed in like,

a tendon got going inflamed.

455

But yeah, apart

456

from this, when you,

when you settle everything,

457

you know, the clothing, at the end,

you adapt quickly.

458

Also the nutrition brand,

459

the top teams nowadays,

everyone is using good products.

460

I think is is quite easy.

461

Also to adapt to adapt to a group for me

was was really.

462

Yeah.

463

How specific easy is actually

464

I think people

shouldn't be scared of change sometimes.

465

You know when you feel like like I said,

you are at the end of a cycle or

466

feel like,

yeah, maybe, maybe change will be good.

467

I think it's only beneficial to

468

to have a fresh, fresh aire

you know, you start from scratch

469

or not from scratch,

but you start something new.

470

We have a yeah, a new, new coaching.

471

New team-mates, new new stuff around you.

472

And just to have this,

you know, always like

473

it's like a new chapter

in your career and,

474

I think, yeah, people

shouldn't be scared of that.

475

Of course.

476

You know, I also don't think it's good

to change every

477

too often.

478

I like also some stability

I think is nice to,

479

you know, to stay with this group

because when you change too often is

480

maybe that then the opposite way,

you know, it may be unstable

481

and you don't really know, but I really

like also the stability that creates.

482

I really enjoyed my six year with Ineos,

you know, at the end

483

I think team is also sometimes

like a family,

484

like your second family,

you spend more time with your

485

with your cycling

team than your family. And,

486

and yeah,

487

you know, always being race and now.

488

Yeah, I'm,

I'm really enjoying my time with UAE and,

489

Yeah, I'm lucky

I still have two years in my contract.

490

And, you know, for the moment,

you know, I, I enjoy these years and

491

let's see,

let's see what the future brings.

492

I'm really excited already to start 2025.

493

I don't know, I haven't spoken yet

about my race program or anything.

494

You know, I'm in my off season,

so I'm kind of switching off,

495

but already, you know, excited to

to start again, to build the winter and

496

and to go again, so

497

no, I mean, the changes is, is good

from time to time.

498

I think.

499

I'm talking changes.

500

Your life there, there has been, like,

some changes, for our viewers

501

and listeners, maybe you give them

a quick story about your life.

502

You're born in Italy,

bought at the age of one.

503

You moved to France, then you had a French

and Russian citizenship.

504

You raced under a Russian license,

and I believe 22.

505

You changed to a French, license. Or.

506

No. Now you're racing

with a French national team.

507

How did all that, come along?

508

I believe some of it is

paid to your parents.

509

Your dad was a cyclist as well, right?

510

And by the way, please say hi to Alexei.

511

We raced together.

512

I think we both started in France in 98.

513

Me with GAN Credit Agricole

and he started was Big Mat Aubervillier

514

So we raced many French Cup races

together.

515

Say hi to him when you see me

next time. But. Yeah.

516

So how did all that

come along in your relatively young life?

517

Yeah, it's like you.

518

Like you say, both my parents are Russian.

519

They were both, professional cyclists

and, Yeah, my dad started

520

with, with in 97 with RosLotto.

521

And that's why I'm born in Italy.

522

He had a contract there,

and then he signed

523

with Big Mat,

and that's when we moved to France and

524

I stayed in living in France.

525

I grew up in France,

526

from one until

527

until I was until 2019,

when I moved to Andorra. So.

528

So, yeah.

529

Because of my parents,

I had the only the Russian passports

530

until until I was 18, where I could apply

to get the French citizenship.

531

But I by this time I was already racing

with the Russian national team.

532

And yeah, then

533

then I

534

didn't change straight away

when I turned pro,

535

because I wanted to do

the Olympic Games in Tokyo and,

536

it would have been two years,

537

you know, waiting without doing it,

538

without doing any, any major competitions.

539

So, yeah.

540

Basically also then did the war happen

and, in Ukraine.

541

So for me, it was also something.

542

Yeah, something.

543

Yeah, a bit complicated.

544

It and this actually made it easier

for me to make the transition.

545

And I got to the changing, like,

in, like a week or like two days.

546

You know, when I had the French, French,

national of sporting

547

nationality, although I had the French

nationality already.

548

So, yeah, maybe also, like,

speaking of changes, you know,

549

maybe that's why

I also have an ability to change.

550

Because I grew up,

you know, in kind of a mix of cultures

551

and, you know,

it's always been easy to transition.

552

Not easy, but it's.

553

Yeah, in my head, it's kind of easy to

transition from one language to another.

554

And I think

555

it also

556

makes probably also in life,

you know, something

557

that makes it easier

to maybe even understands new understand

558

new cultures, you know,

and I also been really lucky to encounter

559

a lot of different cultures throughout

my career, you know, in different teams,

560

like the British culture with Ineos

also different riders and,

561

and I think that's why maybe doing changes

at the end of the day

562

is something I get really accustomed

to read very quickly.

563

And I really enjoyed.

564

Well, you've managed that pretty

darn well, I must say.

565

But with both of your parents

being cyclists and

566

heck,

you were born during the tour de France.

567

So you're going to be celebrating

568

your birthday during the tour de France

in until you retire, right?

569

So cycling seems to have been

kind of destined for you,

570

but what what got you into

cycling in the first place?

571

Was it

just trying to hang out with your dad,

572

or was it always just a burning passion,

desire, destiny inside of you?

573

I actually I

574

didn't, didn't cycle like, straight away,

I did.

575

I've done, a lot of different sports.

576

When I was younger, I started with, judo

that I some football or soccer,

577

as you call it, in the US.

578

Then some tennis,

579

basketball, handball,

a lot of different stuff.

580

But, you know,

cycling was always around at home.

581

It was always there, always present.

582

I never like

got a license for race straight away. But

583

then I tried cycling

and I could feel like, you know,

584

it was the sport I was good at.

585

And I got a license for racing

and I was pretty good quite quickly.

586

And, and yeah,

I mean, it was just there as well.

587

It was it, it was very hard to avoid.

588

My sister

589

managed to

avoid I think it was too much for her, but

590

yeah, it was, it was always probably

also a dream of mine,

591

you know, inside and, and.

592

Yeah, I mean, obviously.

593

Yeah.

594

I mean, at home, it was,

it was kind of obvious, I would say.

595

So, with your parents

both being cyclists,

596

are they still super nervous and afraid

for you when you leave for grand Tour?

597

I mean, they both must have had their own

598

fair share of crashes, because we all know

cycling is sometimes dangerous.

599

And it hurts like mad

if you fall here, right?

600

If you crash, is mom

obviously nervous for you?

601

Or she goes

to, you know, you're a big boy.

602

You do whatever you do or she still go,

oh, please come home, my son.

603

How is that? And,

604

if you back home for a weekend,

you all talks

605

hiking, taking, cycling, cycling

only because you are taking experts.

606

Oh, how is that gonna work?

607

Yeah, actually, of course,

I think for parents especially,

608

they know they're they're obviously

always nervous and.

609

Yeah, I think he's

always is always the odds, you know, to,

610

you know there's some risk

but also some reward.

611

And then the same that in a way

not only of all the crashes

612

but also nervous about how I'm gonna,

race and all this stuff

613

and. Yeah, yeah, when we, we speak,

so we speak,

614

a lot of cycling is, is the main topic.

615

That's that's for sure.

616

You know, that's that's our, our stuff.

617

Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah.

618

Maybe too much. But, we love it.

619

I mean, just the. That's the passion.

620

So how old were you when you decided

621

to stop doing judo and these other sports

and focus on, on cycling?

622

I think I started around 13.

623

So it's not late,

624

but it's not like I know some guys

I started earlier.

625

And then I started

racing on the roads in,

626

in the Pyrenees.

627

That's, that's where I started.

628

And I slowly made,

629

made my steps there

on, the smaller races and ya,

630

it was it was good time.

631

Did you ever try

632

some other cycling like BMX,

mountain biking, cyclocross

633

or on the track or you go now it's road

racing for me or nothing else.

634

I've tried a bit of track.

635

I've done a bit of track, but,

636

there wasn't too many,

too many races in the Pyrenees.

637

There is a couple of also outdoor

velodrome, one in, in France.

638

This was the closest

one to me. Also in indoor.

639

And I went to a couple times also with

640

regional team to,

641

to Bordeaux,

to do some, some racing there.

642

But it mainly was the road.

643

And actually I wish,

I wish I did a bit more of other stuff.

644

Obviously

I, I rode sometimes a mountain bike and,

645

and it always kind of stopped, but

it was mainly road and I wish I'd done

646

I've done more of, Yeah.

647

Like cyclocross, mountain bike,

you know, like a lot of different

648

something for for young cyclists

is really important to, to really,

649

you know, for the skills

but also, yeah, for the fun.

650

I think it's nice to do different

disciplines.

651

You learn a lot from,

from each one of them.

652

And you can see it actually on the road

now, a lot of recruit riders, they, they,

653

they come through that and they still

keep doing it, you know, and like Tom,

654

Mathieu and, and Wout, you know,

you see how, how good you are on the road,

655

but also they bring in all these skills

from, from different disciplines.

656

Also a lot of track riders, like Pippo

Ganna still, still doing it, you know,

657

but yeah, for me

it was mainly road for all my career.

658

I was

659

cautious to, to bring this up,

but I'm going to give it a shot.

660

So your name popped up on my radar

661

I got a call from the late, great

Nicolas Portal He was working for Sky,

662

and I was, transitioning.

663

I was, I was at BMC, or he thought

I was going to be at BMC for a while,

664

and he spoke so highly of you.

665

They didn't have a development team.

666

BMC did have a development team.

667

I'm just curious,

what was your relationship with Nico?

668

Because like I said,

he just had such a high opinion of you.

669

Yeah.

670

I mean, and Nico, Nico was.

671

Yeah, it was great.

672

I think he was a super special,

special person.

673

Everyone have run.

674

Yeah. And us in the team.

675

It was you know, it was a big loss for

676

for. Yeah, for for everyone who knew him.

677

And,

678

and. Yeah, I mean, he's done

679

a lot for me, obviously, in my career,

I think, you know,

680

he was also a big part of why

I was always in Sky, obviously.

681

And and also even even where I live now.

682

Actually, In Andorra, he, he was living

also in Andorra at the moment.

683

And he told me,

you know, to to come have a look

684

and actually the apartment I bought it

I'm staying in.

685

He also showed it to me.

686

I like, you know,

so I had a special relations

687

relationship with him and

688

yeah, it was, you know,

689

it was, I think, really, really sad

what happened. And,

690

Yeah. Well, what can I say?

691

Yeah.

692

This is it's been

hard, I think, for everyone, but, it was.

693

Yeah, it's what it is really.

694

And in your six years with Ineos,

695

Grenadiers or team sky at the start,

what did you take away?

696

What was could we go?

697

I will always keep doing this

for the rest of my career.

698

And what's different

with, your team now with team UAE?

699

If there is a difference

700

for, That's a hard question,

701

actually,

I think is, is very hard to to choose?

702

So one thing, you know, I think is just,

703

yeah.

704

How we in sky how how professional

is the approach to everything?

705

I think that's that's something

I learned a lot.

706

Also,

you know, learned a lot from the riders.

707

The, you know, the work ethic

they have is, is is just amazing.

708

You know,

709

and, I think that's, that's what

710

I'll always do, really approach,

711

all the details like this.

712

Actually, yeah.

713

It's hard to, to choose something.

714

Want one thing?

715

And what's different in UAE?

716

In a way, I think,

717

I think how to, to explain it is maybe,

718

you know, Ineos was,

like kind of a British team.

719

Maybe, you know what I mean?

720

Like more,

you know, like, kind of Anglo-Saxon

721

or how you go, how you call like,

this, this type of mentality.

722

And UAE is maybe more like

Spanish, Italian influence team, you know,

723

and the difference is hard to explain,

but I, I guess you guys know how it is.

724

A bit of,

725

a bit of a different approach,

726

maybe a little bit more laid back in UAE.

727

And a bit more like on it in Ineos

728

and I think, it suits and also it suits

729

and it's good for certain periods,

you know, like, you know, so it was nice.

730

But maybe I need to also this change,

you know, a bit more laid back.

731

Being a bit maybe less control.

732

Also, so

733

I would say

maybe that those are the difference,

734

but yeah, it's, it also learns you

a lot of stuff, you know, doing

735

really get interested about a lot of stuff

in, in yours.

736

And yeah, I think is actually hard to,

to really pick.

737

One thing

I think is just the combination and,

738

and the stuff that,

that I learned over the years, you know,

739

from more from the riders, you know,

observing like, you know, from G.

740

Kiwato also,

I learned a lot from them how,

741

how they approach,

742

racing training

and also also life in general.

743

And now I'm more of maybe grown and

744

I'm in UAE, you know, maybe

745

also with more experience is also good

to be a bit more laid back, less control.

746

I know what I'm doing.

747

I've learned a lot already with,

with, with Ineos and Sky, so.

748

Yeah, it's that's, that's it's really.

749

Well, I'm going to have to,

to pick your brain a little bit because,

750

you know, starting so young,

been having great results as a junior.

751

Moving on to, you know the under 23’s

752

and now in what you're

753

seventh year as a as a pro

a lot of guys that you raced

754

with back in the junior years

under 23 years.

755

There's some familiar names in in

in that list.

756

But there's also a lot of guys

that didn't make it,

757

outside of just the pure physical talent

758

that it takes to pedal a bike

as fast as you can.

759

What other life skills do you believe

are important

760

to ensure a, a successful career for?

761

For some young riders just starting out?

762

Well, I think,

763

I think, I think balance is probably

764

for me,

765

the key is actually quite hard because,

I would say I also kind of struggle

766

with this, you know, when I was younger

to find this balance actually,

767

I would say it's now where I really

768

I found, this balance,

I would say even like we had this

769

year, you know, is is something

I struggled and it's something

770

really complicated because now I would say

I was also in a generation

771

that was kind of transitional, know

from old cycling to new cycling.

772

Now it's, you know, I came to the pros.

773

It was quite early.

774

I think I was 20 or 19, I remember I was,

775

but now it's, it's coming

even earlier and I think

776

and I think

777

you're really on it, on this intensity

778

of being a professional from an early age

and,

779

it's harder to find these balance

because maybe in your head

780

you're not as mature, you know, you know,

you don't

781

think about all this, and,

782

you know, it's easy

to be to do too much training.

783

You know, when you,

when you're in this bubble, you train,

784

you train, you sleep, you eat,

everything is calculated.

785

You can count your calories.

786

You can count

787

how many hours, you can count everything,

basically.

788

And I think

789

I think it's about finding this balance

where you can kind of,

790

switch off from this

791

or you don't take this too seriously

if something doesn't go your way.

792

And,

793

yeah,

I think I think is about this really,

794

yeah, I think, I think for me,

the key is finding.

795

Finding this, finding your way more

than, you know, trying to be someone else

796

as well.

797

Trying not to compare yourself

to, you know,

798

it was all easy now to compare yourself

with the many young riders.

799

You know, when when I was like

Tadej started to be really good.

800

And I wasn't,

you know, I was kind of this this year.

801

I wasn't performing

as maybe the expectation were.

802

And that's where also some young guys

that will struggle, you know,

803

because you compare yourself

to someone that

804

they do well and, you know, you just

and just try to find your way

805

and your career, your path and, and,

and do it

806

your way and also keep believing,

you know, that's also,

807

I think the main thing, you know,

you have to believe in yourself and,

808

and. Yeah, it's just.

809

Yeah, more or less this

I think, that's what I, how

810

I would advise you, guy.

811

Even though, after talking

812

to older riders, younger riders, over

the years was our podcast.

813

It feels like in this modern day and age,

it is super hard

814

to actually get into cycling

if you not do everything to perfection.

815

I believe back in our days, Bobby and me,

you could still start

816

the season with, two kilos overweight

and you would still survive

817

if you start Pyrenees with two kilos or we

this year you be out of the time limit.

818

So I believe cycling does become

a little harder and does more valuable.

819

Are your words now that every now

and then you have to, like,

820

put on the brake

a little bit and find to balance right or

821

how long in the year?

822

12 months.

823

How long can you keep the balance

or how long can you keep the focus

824

on counting the calories count? And,

825

your watts your kilos, your kilometres?

826

Is it like ten months on, two months off?

827

I wouldn't

I wouldn't count it like this. Really.

828

I think for me it's more,

829

it's more, you know,

830

I've, I've accepted

also is is a way of life.

831

It's not something that is.

832

It's kind of, penny pinching.

833

Yes. To do,

you know, I'm like, okay, this is this is.

834

I don't even treat it like it's my job.

835

I treat it like this is the

the life I've chosen to live.

836

You know?

837

This is okay.

838

You know, it's not like that's.

839

It's just that I don't go extreme

as I used to do before.

840

You know, if I need to lose weight,

I'm not going to go and starve myself.

841

I'm going to do it more steadily.

842

And then in the same time,

I'm never going to gain

843

that much in your in the off season

or like in the period where I have off

844

because I don't have these cravings

or it is actually.

845

Yeah, it is a balance.

846

When you go too much on one way,

then it's like a bounce back effect.

847

And I think that's

that's how I would manage it more.

848

You know,

849

now in the off season, I

850

yeah, I, I, I don't,

851

I allow myself what I want really

but I also

852

it's just I enjoy, you know, being healthy

I enjoy I enjoyed to sometimes,

853

you know, I have a drink

or eat some like cheat meals or all

854

that kind of stuff, but,

at the same time, I think it's just

855

leading a healthy life.

856

I like this, you know,

and at the end of the day is just

857

and was more than just a job is also

is also a way of life and a

858

I enjoy it,

I enjoy, you know, going out for training.

859

And I think that's also maybe the key

for a longer career.

860

Now, you know, if you were constantly,

861

constantly stressed in and

862

you're worried about everything and

863

you take this to the extreme,

that's that's one

864

it's going to be hard

for the longevity of your career or even.

865

Yeah, you know,

but I agree now is is a bit

866

more extreme like the racing from January.

867

If you don't want to perform, you already

have to be in really good shape already.

868

You have to be lean maybe.

869

Yeah.

870

Like you say, two kilos is okay

is a bit on the limit.

871

You know, one kilo from your top shape

872

from the start of the season

and you kind of have to.

873

Yeah. To keep working hard.

874

But at the same time,

I think you still have to.

875

Yeah.

876

Keep a little bit of this last squeeze

to be there and.

877

Yeah, it's.

878

Yeah it's

what I also learn from other races.

879

You know you can see

880

riders that are

881

really no consistent

throughout the season.

882

They are actually really good.

883

Are managing in this way I think.

884

Well, for me, one

actually good example is that, yeah.

885

You know, you you manage this really well.

886

He is super professional,

but at the same time, you know, he

887

he knows how to enjoy, like,

a good glass of wine and, and.

888

Yeah, it's

just like adding this balance of both.

889

And I think that's when you,

you can keep it for the whole season

890

that from time to time

891

you allow yourself something

and you don't go to these extremes.

892

It's just trying to, to, to

to be too crazy.

893

Of course, before a big, big goal

like the tour, like

894

there's like one month in before this,

you were really honest.

895

You're in, you're

in, you're on the mission.

896

But then you can relax and actually.

897

Yeah, it's it's about just.

898

Yeah. Staying, staying.

899

Don't go. Don't go too crazy.

900

Wow Jensie he just said that

you don't want to go two kilos over.

901

One kilo over is enough crap.

902

When we used to race

903

what guys would come six, seven,

ten kilos heavier sometimes, right.

904

Yeah. And talk about.

905

Talk about the extremes and talk about

not being able to find the balance.

906

I think, a lot of guys in our generation

had that.

907

But we're getting close to the end.

908

But I have two questions that came to me

from a local junior rider.

909

They don't have to be the longest

answers, but he was curious enough to.

910

When I told them that you were coming on

the podcast, he had two questions.

911

So number one is

what is the biggest change

912

in your training

since when you started as a junior?

913

Until now?

914

Well, actually, I think

915

for the juniors now it's it's less

I think they already train like,

916

you know the all they are full

the knowledge that we have sometimes even

917

more sometimes you speak to the young guys

and they know more than you.

918

For me, what is this?

919

I think it's just. Yeah.

920

Night and day.

I didn't have a power meter then.

921

I was training with heartrate.

922

I knew nothing about,

what I know now about the nutrition.

923

Also about the training.

924

I was just riding, doing some efforts

here and there, and

925

and. Yeah.

926

I it's just crazy.

927

I think just all the knowledge we have

now about the different zones, about,

928

which zones is good for

what's and also fuelling

929

in 190g an hour and,

930

the ratio fructose,

931

fructose, glucose, always kind is just,

yeah, it's actually also part of a job

932

to start, like, studying all this stuff

and, Yeah, it's just.

933

Yeah. Yeah. Has progressed.

934

Yeah.

935

Just tremendous amount of,

So it's actually not

936

I think it's nice in a way,

also having all this progression,

937

but I guess with more in

cycling is also impossible.

938

Yeah.

939

It's I don't see like if you're,

if you're a junior,

940

you already need to know all this and

train like this if you want to perform.

941

So it's just a different generation,

I think.

942

Yeah.

943

If you guys and boys

feel better than me. So.

944

Yeah, it's, it's how the, the sports

goes. We.

945

Okay, so second part of the question,

because you kind of touched on it

946

and your team has made this,

947

zone two training famous.

948

So his next question was,

949

do you look more at your wattage,

your zone to wattage or your zone

950

two heart rate and,

and how important is it to stay

951

in that zone two heart rate?

952

I look for the wattage,

953

but in combination

with the heart rate, because,

954

sometimes maybe on some

955

days you, you can see that your,

956

your heart rate

is, is too high or something.

957

And,

you just have to back off a little bit.

958

Maybe you're not in. Good day,

959

but, yeah, mostly

960

the wattage, but I think the heart rate

is really important as well.

961

You can also see if you're fatigued,

you know,

962

if your heart rate is a bit suppressed.

963

So, I think it's a combination of both.

964

We have a lot of metrics.

965

Nowadays, to, to measure this,

I think, to, to really know

966

better if you are in

the zone is to, to measure your lactate.

967

But obviously you cannot do this,

968

like all the time in, in every day. So,

969

yeah, it's a combination of both, really,

970

I think I think you, you

you have to learn how to use both metrics.

971

And I think they're, they're both very.

972

Yeah. Really important to look at.

973

And, it's just also

974

to understand your own body, you know,

actually to know what also to to

975

when to back off for when to,

976

when you a bit maybe not too fresh,

but when you're fresh, you know,

977

when the heart rate is higher

and is always a good sign.

978

And when it's the opposite,

then it's always bad sign.

979

So yeah, I think is working

both is so it's

980

I would say.

981

I want to have as my last question

a non cycling question.

982

Please tell tell us, our listeners

983

and viewers just a little secret

or a habit or hobby of yours.

984

What do you do in your free time.

985

Tell us like something

nobody would know except of us telling.

986

Now you go fishing.

987

You go motorbike riding

or you like cooking.

988

You reading books? What type of books?

989

Something that nobody would know

until today.

990

Well, I think there is not, like,

a secret, really.

991

I don't know the secret of hobby,

but I really.

992

I really like cooking when I'm home.

993

And, I also really like coffee.

994

But, Yeah, well, my team-mate, but like,

my team-mates noticed, you know, always,

995

like, with me, always have, like, my my

kettle and, like, my little coffee set up.

996

I bring it everywhere on races

or on holidays and

997

always look for different beans here

998

and there and try to buy some beans

from different roasters around the world.

999

So yeah, I quite enjoy this.

00:53:11,021 --> 00:53:12,898

This is one one hobby of me. I would say

00:53:14,858 --> 00:53:15,942

that's cool and

00:53:15,942 --> 00:53:18,987

very common in the world of professional

cycling, right?

00:53:18,987 --> 00:53:20,780

We like our food and we like our coffees.

00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:23,783

So you pick some pretty darn good hobbies

there.

00:53:24,618 --> 00:53:28,246

Well, thank you so much

for coming on the odd tandem today.

00:53:28,246 --> 00:53:31,750

Really appreciate you spending some

a little bit of your offseason.

00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:35,295

It doesn't sound like you're going

to have one for for very long when you're

00:53:35,587 --> 00:53:37,214

taken off to another camp here soon.

00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:40,967

But thank you so much for coming on

and sharing your story and your knowledge

00:53:40,967 --> 00:53:43,970

with us, our viewers and our listeners.

00:53:45,138 --> 00:53:45,764

No worries.

00:53:45,764 --> 00:53:48,767

My pleasure has been a pleasure.

00:53:48,975 --> 00:53:50,477

That's everything for this week.

00:53:50,477 --> 00:53:54,689

Now please

remember to follow us at Oddtandem.

00:53:54,898 --> 00:54:00,528

on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook

or wherever you find your podcast.

00:54:00,820 --> 00:54:03,114

Thanks to Pavel for joining the podcast.

00:54:03,114 --> 00:54:06,618

Also remember, if you want to see

the video version of this podcast,

00:54:06,618 --> 00:54:09,621

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

00:54:09,621 --> 00:54:13,500

YouTube.com/@Oddtandem.

00:54:13,875 --> 00:54:18,588

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

00:54:18,672 --> 00:54:22,676

and your name in the titles,

just head to our Patreon

00:54:22,968 --> 00:54:27,472

where you can sign up for $5 a month

and keep this podcast going.

00:54:27,597 --> 00:54:31,893

That's patreon.com/Oddtandem.

00:54:32,686 --> 00:54:35,063

Thanks to our Patreon members

00:54:35,063 --> 00:54:38,233

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie Teixeira,

00:54:38,483 --> 00:54:41,403

Jeff Kralik, Brian Colon, Chris Merritt,

00:54:41,403 --> 00:54:44,322

Tim Farriss, Jim, David Swartwout,

00:54:44,322 --> 00:54:47,450

Bill Babcock, Randy Corbett, Nancy Ness,

00:54:47,742 --> 00:54:51,371

Michael Terblanche,

Jim Burns, Swim School Bob,

00:54:51,371 --> 00:54:55,458

Steve, Scott Nabors, Joseph, Philip Shama,

00:54:56,209 --> 00:55:00,130

Mark Payne, Steven Martin,

Jeff Seckendorf,

00:55:00,338 --> 00:55:04,551

Jeff Hartley, Chris Turner,

who have done just that.

00:55:04,801 --> 00:55:09,514

And remember, if you want your question

in our next mailbag episode, make sure

00:55:09,514 --> 00:55:15,270

you keep sending us your questions to Odd

Tandem@Shocked giraffe.com

00:55:15,437 --> 00:55:18,940

or any of our odd tandem

social media channels.

00:55:19,607 --> 00:55:23,403

And please keep sharing a podcast

and keep leaving your reviews

00:55:23,403 --> 00:55:24,738

wherever you're listening.

00:55:24,738 --> 00:55:27,532

It really helps us to build our audience.