Most families don't think about Medicaid until they're in crisis — and by then, it's often too late. In this episode of The Good Steward Law and Wealth Podcast, elder law attorney Ledly Jennings sits down with Tzivya Murrin, owner of Sensible Senior Planning, to break down everything you need to know about Medicaid planning and the application process. Whether you're planning ahead for a loved one or already navigating long-term care, this conversation could save your family thousands. Don't wait until it's an emergency.

Welcome back to The Good Steward Law and Wealth Podcast.

2

I'm excited to be here today

'cause we are gonna talk Medicaid.

3

Uh, and I have the owner of Sensible

Senior Planning and I call her t uh,

4

I'll let you pronounce your name.

5

I don't wanna mess it

up, but, uh, T is here.

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Tzivya Murrin: Yes.

7

Hi Leslie.

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Thanks for having me on my first,

uh, my full name is Svia, but

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like you said, I, I just go by t

It's, it's a little complex, so.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah, I was gonna give

it a shot, but then I figured I might as

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well let you get it right the first time.

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Ley is a kind of a unique name too.

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So I, um, don't ever

meet anyone with that.

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Um, but anyway, we, so my firm, we do, uh,

what we call elder law, but essentially

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it is a version of estate planning.

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But we're helping clients, uh,

prepare for their long-term care.

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And then through that comes with

applying for Medicaid a lot of times.

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And then in a roundabout way, I met T and

then started using her company to do a lot

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of my Medicaid applications because she is

great at it and it is just something that.

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If you don't know what you're doing

or have the bandwidth to do it,

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then it can get pretty complicated.

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And a lot of clients

don't really see that.

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So I wanted to have t on here to kinda

go over what Medicaid planning is,

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how that application process works.

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Um, and yeah, but I guess to start,

I guess, t how did you get into this?

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Where did, how, how'd you get into the,

you know, the Medicaid planning space?

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Tzivya Murrin: So my background

is I started working really,

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um, in, in healthcare, working

at a pediatric nursing home.

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And then about, uh, like 13 years ago,

shifted to working with geriatrics

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and I was a social service coordinator

in a geriatric nursing home.

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There I was helping families

with the Medicaid process.

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Um, then I went on to get my

administrator's license and I was an

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administrator at an assisted living

facility, and there I, we did not

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accept Medicaid, but we would have

residents that were, um, running out

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of funds and they would need to start

the Medicaid application process so

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that they can have a smooth transition.

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From the assisted living to a

facility that accepted Medicaid.

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So I was heavily involved with

the Medicaid process from there.

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Um, but from a facility standpoint

and really what our role was within

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the facility, it was not anything in

regards to protecting assets for the

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clients or even educating them because

we weren't educated on that in regards

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to asset preservation or ways to expedite

the Medicaid application process.

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Um, so I, you know, just always

loving to advocate for those that

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are, um, you know, maybe less

fortunate or don't have the resources.

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I kind of went on a quest to learn

more about Medicaid planning,

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um, and understand the, um.

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How asset preservation works for crisis

Medicaid planning, and then the Medicaid

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application process, the ins and the outs.

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I did work for a short, uh, brief period

of time for another Medicaid planning

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company that specializes in application.

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And they themselves too,

they only did applications.

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They did not do any asset preservation.

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And you know, I continued on.

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It's like, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna.

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Dive into really asset preservation,

understanding that so that we can properly

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help advocate for, for the seniors.

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Um, so went on, got about five and a half

years ago, got a camper and this was right

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when COVID started, but literally went all

over the US in a camper, met with Medicaid

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offices, elder law attorneys, um, and.

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Uh, the, my focus was really the Medicaid

offices, but to learn a lot, a lot about

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Medicaid, the ins, the outs, applications,

state specific roles, um, different

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Ledly Jennings: Okay.

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Tzivya Murrin: hints and, um, and

then, you know, met with attorneys

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to learn crisis planning and then

started sensible senior planning.

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Um.

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A little over five years ago.

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and, and that's, that's all I do day

in, day out is just everything as it

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relates to crisis Medicaid planning

and the Medicaid application process.

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Ledly Jennings: Wow.

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I didn't know that story

about the, the camper.

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That's a, that's a cool story.

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You really dove in the weeds there.

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Tzivya Murrin: I did.

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did.

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Ledly Jennings: That's what we, and

half the stuff we do, Linda in my office

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always says, you know, the only way we

learn is actually getting and doing it.

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And then we, uh, so I guess

that's the best way to learn

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is actually get out there.

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Um, yeah.

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And I know, which I'll kind of hit

briefly just for everyone listening, what.

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Uh, why you need Medicaid planning

and just from our perspective,

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uh, what we do is asset protection

mostly and is pre-planning.

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Um, so I do a lot of trust.

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Most of our planning is revocable trust,

but I've talked about another podcast

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when we do long-term care planning and

that's when we plan ahead and bring in

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irrevocable trust and various things.

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But essentially, if you go to the

nursing home, you have to pay for it.

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Um, and if how you pay for it

is where the planning comes in,

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there's all kinds of options.

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You can private pay, meaning you pay for

it out of pocket, but the fees, I guess in

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Arkansas, probably eight to 9,000 a month.

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Um, so a lot of people can't

or don't want to do that.

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So maybe they have long-term

care insurance or um, or

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they can get on Medicaid.

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And that is where we come in

with the Medicaid planning.

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Um.

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And how we help clients.

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So if they don't pre-plan, meaning we've

helped 'em, you know, five or 10 years

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ahead of time plan and get things moved

around, then they have to apply for

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Medicaid in what we call crisis planning.

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Um, so I guess t generally, how do

you view Medicaid planning at a broad

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level and how do you describe it?

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Tzivya Murrin: I think, um, the

way I would describe Medicaid

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planning crisis, Medicaid plan.

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Is where we try and preserve

as much assets as we can in

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a Medicaid compliant way.

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Having, you know, Medicaid

is aware of the entire plan.

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It's all Medicaid compliant, but

preserving as much assets as we can.

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I, I usually say that when a couple is.

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Is married, we typically can

preserve 100% of their assets.

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Sometimes it may mean that a property

has to get sold or, and we just can,

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um, preserve the value of the property.

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But typically you can save about

a hundred percent of the assets.

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And when someone is single, then usually.

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Um, you can save at

least 50% of the assets.

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Of course, every circumstance can

be different, but it's typically

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comes up between, I say 50%.

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That's usually on the lower end.

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A lot of times it's higher than that,

but really the Medicaid planning is

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being able to preserve as much as

we can in a Medicaid compliant way.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah, and I agree.

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That's typically what I tell clients.

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If you're married, we have a lot

more tools in our belt essentially

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to save, you know, almost everything.

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But even if you're single, um, then

there's still some planning and a lot

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of value we can do there rather than.

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Losing it all, basically.

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Um, and one thing that comes up on

my end that I really didn't know till

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I dove into this space, what does

Medicaid cover that Medicare does not?

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How, what's the difference in those two?

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah.

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So don't say I'm not necessarily an expert

when it comes to the Medicare side, and

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though I will say just from my experience

from having worked in a facility, um, so

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I always say everyone, always, you wanna

check with the providers, but typically

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Medicare covers the skilled nursing.

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So it's gonna cover therapy

in a, in a facility.

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It'll also cover

sometimes inpatient rehab.

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Um, the inpatient rehab that it

covers, typically it's up to 21 days,

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I believe it is still without a copay.

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And after 21 days there is a copay.

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So depending on if you have a

secondary insurance, the secondary

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insurance may pick that up.

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Or at that point you may be

private pay or may need Medicaid.

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Um, but Medicare, the, the, the

clients that, that we work with for

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crisis planning, really the biggest

difference is that Medicare does

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not pay for 24 7 care for someone

to live in a facility for long term.

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Um, their thing is, you know,

what they pay for is for someone.

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Two who needs inpatient rehab,

they'll pay for the inpatient rehab.

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And with doing that, they're gonna pay

for the room and board, but they don't

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care if someone, um, you know, needs care.

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That's not what they're looking for.

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It's really the inpatient rehab.

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Medicare, and this is one of the

biggest thing that I, I speak with

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people and they're like, and I'm

sure Leslie, you hear this too.

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They're like, Hey, yeah, my loved

one just went into the facility.

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February 20th and they, they have a

hundred days of Medicare, so we're gonna

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need Medicaid in three or four months.

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'cause they still have a

hundred days of Medicare left.

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Or at this point, maybe

they only have 85 days left.

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And I always say to them, you know,

the way it works is with Medicare.

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Typically the facility does

reviews depending on the situation,

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anywhere from three to five days.

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Usually they speak to Medicare and

they'll give Medicare a review, or they'll

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send in notes to Medicare and give a

review on the, um, on the progress of

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the loved one who's in the facility.

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If the loved one is making too much

progress, where they don't need

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inpatient rehab because they're making

too much progress, or they're making

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too little progress, where inpatient

rehab isn't helping them enough.

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Um, or, you know, they've just plateaued.

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Then Medicare just gives, it's usually.

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I believe now it's a 72 hour notice, or

might be 48, 48 hours or 72 hour notice

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where they say You're done with Medicare.

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You gotta go home.

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And so even though it's, you hear the

a hundred days, it's a max of 100 days.

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It's very, very rare that anyone

gets a gets a hundred days.

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The average that we're seeing

is people are getting about.

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Three weeks at most of

coverage in a facility.

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Um, so it's, you know, that's the, the

portion that people sometimes don't

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realize when it comes to Medicare.

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They think they're good for a few months,

but really you're not, you kind of wanna

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get on, on the long-term plan right away,

because you may only get a 48 hour notice.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah.

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And that's, that's why we always say

you think you have a long runway, but

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you need to start the planning and start

gathering everything for the actual

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Medicaid application as soon as possible.

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'cause if you get that 72 hour

notice, that's a a lot to do

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in a short amount of time.

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Um, but.

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Tzivya Murrin: Exactly.

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Ledly Jennings: And then what, just

briefly on Medicaid, how do you qualify?

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Like what are the, the base

qualifications as far as asset

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level and timing and process?

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah.

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So the first thing, the, the

qualification is definitely, there's

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always the, the clinical eligibility.

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So the individual has to meet, meet

clinical eligibility where they

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require two activities of daily living.

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Very rare do we have seniors that.

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Won't fall into the category from a

financial standpoint, their assets for

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a single person who's applying their

assets can only be a max of $2,000.

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So it can't exceed $2,000.

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Their income can't exceed.

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It's about, I think it's a,

a little over 2,900 now, um,

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that their income can't exceed.

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However, for a single person,

again, that's where it is, where

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we do that crisis planning.

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If their income is above 29.

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Hundred and remember

that is the gross amount.

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So it's not, if, let's say that hits

their bank account is only 2,800, but

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the gross amount before taxes withhold

withholding, or Medicare is above that,

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then we need to set up a qualified

income trust, or also known as a miller.

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And that's, um, you know, Ledley,

I know you help with the Ledley

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will prepare, you'll prepare

the legal documents for that.

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And then, um, it's just setting, taking

the legal documents and setting up

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a bank account where the income that

puts the individual above the limit

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funnels through the Miller Trust.

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So there's ways again about that if

someone doesn't qualify from income and

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from asset standpoint, there's, and I

don't know if how much you want me to

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get into it, but there's a half a loaf

strategy where we can gift some funds,

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put some funds into a Medicaid product.

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Called Medicaid compliant annuity,

um, that will, um, pay for a penalty

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period because we gifted some funds.

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So, and basically there's

definitely options and in that

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case, usually, like we said, we'll

save at least 50% of the assets.

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Sometimes it can be less when it

comes to mathematic equations,

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sometimes more, but yeah.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah.

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And that's usually where we start

like, well, I guess if they're married

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or single, we always do planning,

like the quick and easy stuff.

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Uh.

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Spending on allowable things.

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Um, you know, they're allowed

to have a house, so if the house

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needs some repairs or something

like that, we can spend on that.

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Um, long or funeral plans,

we always talk about that.

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And then my favorite part is attorney's

fees are included in that spend down.

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So, um, they can pay attorney's fees.

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Um, but yeah.

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And then the half a loaf

strategy, uh, that's one of our.

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Favorite tools in the tool belt we work

with, um, annuity planners, and just

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from my experience on those is it's a

really qualified specialty of annuities.

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Um, you don't want to go to any

just annuity salesman out there.

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They need to know about

Medicaid compliant annuities.

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Um, that's just one thing

I've learned, um, out there.

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah, I've had that happen

before where, um, an attorney will call

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me and say, you know, they, they got an

annuity set up and then we review the

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annuity and it's not Medicaid compliant.

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It has to be Medicaid compliant.

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And most financial advisors don't assist

with that 'cause it's not, um, it's

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typically not commission producing.

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So, and if it.

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it is commission producing, it

would be very, very minimal.

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So usually financial advisors don't

typically touch That and yeah,

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Ledly Jennings: That makes sense.

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Tzivya Murrin: I spoke about the

single, but the married portion

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that we, as we know, is a little

bit different if someone's

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married when it comes to Medicaid.

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So when someone's married, typically the.

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In the, um, call for the,

the sake of the conversation.

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Institutionalized spouse, that's

the individual who needs care.

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They, their assets can also only be

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However, the spouses, they

have, they don't have an income

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limit, so the spouse's income

essentially is not counted.

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Um, but they do have an asset

limit and the, to determine

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that asset limit, there is some.

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There's a, a date that's

called a snapshot date.

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And basically based off of that date

and what an individual's assets are on

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that date is how much we can determine

what the healthy spouse can keep.

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that's where it is.

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Where if the healthy spouse, let's say

they have a total of 300,000, and the

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healthy spouse can only keep for, you

know, purpose of this $140,000, um, then.

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Well, we are able to take that

other $160,000 and preserve that

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100% for the healthy spouse.

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you know, again, that's where it is.

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We're from a a, that standpoint, instead

of just taking that 160,000 and spending

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that down and paying the nursing home,

um, we can take that and, and preserve

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that so that the institutionalized

spouse can get on Medicaid right away.

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Ledly Jennings: Yep.

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Exactly.

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Um, yeah, and that just goes

into the value of the planning.

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Like it's just, you gotta know

the snapshot dates, you gotta know

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all the qualifications and the

timing of things that, that took

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me a while when I first started.

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Getting into this is knowing

that everything had to

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happen at a certain time.

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Um, now, so I just know this, 'cause

originally we were doing all the

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applications ourself and between, um, me

running a law firm and Linda in my office

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doing everything else, we got overwhelmed

quick, so I know how tedious and tough

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the actual application process is.

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Could you kind of describe how that

process goes and then more importantly.

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How you stay on top of everything.

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'cause you're very organized and I guess

you'd call it task oriented about how

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to get things done in in a sequence.

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I.

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah.

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So Arkansas is like its own beast.

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I mean, it is just so different

than most other states when it

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comes to the Medicaid application.

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Um, so, and of course it depends

according to the caseworkers and things

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like that, but essentially the actual

filling out of the Medicaid application

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is fairly straightforward, not that

difficult, but you always wanna make

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sure that, you know, you're filling it

out correctly so you don't put too much

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information, too little information.

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Where it comes to a lot of the

tedious work is that if, let's say

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I were to just go ahead And okay.

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You know, my mom's assets are

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I can just fill out an application

'cause it's very straightforward.

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I will go fill out an application,

the caseworker will review

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it and then come back to me.

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And they typically only give 10 calendar

days, not business days, 10 calendar

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days to get the documents to them.

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Sometimes they'll give you an

extension if you call and ask for one.

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So at most you might get.

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20 days.

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Um, but you have to be on top of that

and they come back to you and they'll

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give you a whole slew of a list of

all the documents that will be needed.

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Every case is very specific

as to what's needed.

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So if I don't get that, they, let's

say, send me this list and they

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need, let's say a premium letter

for the health insurance company.

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If I don't get that, that letter,

then Medicaid will deny however.

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Let's say I, I apply in March.

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Medicaid doesn't get back to

me until middle of April, and

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they're giving me 10 days.

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I call them after the 10 days

and I say, Hey, I didn't get the

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letter yet and I need an extension.

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They give me another 10 days.

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Now it's, may get the letter.

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I give it to them.

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They don't, they, they are right.

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They have so many cases.

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It can take them months to review it.

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They don't review that

letter until May or June.

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Come.

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June, they review that letter and

let's say they say, Nope, it doesn't

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have a date on, on the letter.

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They'll say there's no date on the letter.

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We're denying your case.

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They deny the case.

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You just now, all these months that

you were planning on getting Medicaid

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paid for, Medicaid's not gonna get

paid for because you didn't have a

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date on the health insurance letter.

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have everything else, but not that so.

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What's very tedious and where a lot of

the work comes in, what's so important

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is making sure that you're knowledgeable,

whoever's applying for Medicaid, or

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you know, for us that we're actually

knowledgeable with exactly what Medicaid

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is going to need, so that when Medicaid

comes back and asks us for things, we

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have it right away to give it to them.

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Or we know we can get it, but

that we feel confident when

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we're giving them the documents.

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It's actually what they need.

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you know, there's instances I've

had where the caseworker, um, you

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know, I'll call the caseworker and

be like, well, I was just ready to.

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getting ready to deny the case because

I saw you fax in two documents, but

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they're not clear and the caseworkers

aren't gonna pick up the phone.

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They don't have enough

time, they just can't.

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With the workload, you might find some

that will, but my experience, 90% won't

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pick up the phone and say, Hey, these

two documents came through, unclear.

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Um, we're gonna deny the case.

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What they do instead is

they just deny the case.

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So.

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From the standpoint of like, you

know, from our work, what we do is.

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Of course, the first step is that

we wanna ensure that we have every

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document that Medicaid's going to need.

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of course, we complete the

spend down so that which is

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usually the asset preservation.

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We then need proof and documentation

that the client is actually eligible

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because we need to prove that to Medicaid.

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And only then do we apply

by the time we apply.

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Usually at that point, the family

has very minimal involvement, if any,

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because we already have everything that

we anticipated Medicaid to ask for.

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Then when we, we submit the application

and Arkansas specifically will

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usually fax in the application.

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Um, so we fax in the application.

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We always call about two to three

days after because, and families don't

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even realize this 'cause we don't.

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no, there's no need.

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We got it all under control, but

I can't tell you how many times

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you called two or three days after

to confirm that they received it.

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And they say that they only received

half of the fax, or they didn't get

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the fax at all, or the fax went into

the wrong person's chart and they

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thought it was for someone else.

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So we always have to call to follow

up, to make sure they actually got it.

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And then we follow up

usually a couple weeks.

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'cause it usually takes, right

now it's taking about three weeks

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for a caseworker to be assigned.

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So we'll follow up a couple weeks later

to find out who is the caseworker.

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We'll then get their contact information.

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At times they won't give

you the caseworker's contact

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information, so they'll say, well.

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Leave a voicemail.

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Leave a voicemail for the caseworker.

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We'll transfer you to her, and if she

wants to give you her direct number

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or email, she can give it to you.

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So they'll transfer you.

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You'll leave a voicemail

for the caseworker.

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She doesn't call you back.

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You gotta call again the

day later and the day later.

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So there's a lot of follow

up that has to get done.

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and then, you know, it can take

the caseworker a few weeks to

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actually review it and then let you

know if anything else is needed.

400

So there's just, there's so much staying

on top and repetitive phone calls and

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making sure things are moving forward.

402

Um.

403

that you can catch any issues before

it turns into an issue, um, or any

404

obstacles before it turns into an issue.

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that's really, you know,

our, our involvement.

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Of course, once we get there, there

are times I'll say, and this is,

407

you know, we, you may get a denial.

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But in Arkansas, if you get

a denial, you do have 60 days

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for them to reopen the case.

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So, and let's say in, in this

case where they say, okay, the,

411

um, paperwork wasn't clear.

412

If you give it, show them the

clear copy, then within 60 days

413

then um, they'll reopen the case.

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However.

415

It can take the caseworker over 60 days

to get to review that paper to make

416

sure it's clear and then they won't

open it because it's past the 60 days.

417

So you need to, again, keep following

up, follow up with the supervisors,

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follow up with whatever you need

to do, and keep following up until

419

we can get the case back open.

420

So it's just, it's a lot of time, a

lot of follow through that's needed.

421

And you wanna make sure whoever's

assisting is really following through.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah.

423

And yeah, you don't see that

from the client facing side.

424

You know, it's all this work that

you're doing on the back end is just,

425

well, it's necessary, but it, it is.

426

Uh, pretty cumbersome.

427

Um, and I don't think a

lot of people realize that.

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That's why it's always, if you

have have any assets and you're

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applying for Medicaid, you

definitely need to hire somebody to

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a professional who knows the system.

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You know, we may know the law,

but I've come to realize, I don't

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know the system like t does.

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Um, so it's, it's the teamwork

that makes it really effective.

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Um, and that made me think, and then I'll,

um, that, that's really good information.

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I guess, um, what would, is there any

advice that you would give families that

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they could do now to plan ahead for this?

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Like, I know, I know obviously on the

legal side we can plan ahead, but just as

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far as any Medicaid advice or application,

what can they start staying on top of?

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah, I think the number

one thing is getting power of attorney

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on file with every institution that

their loved one, um, is affiliated with.

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So that.

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Means getting Power Attorney

in file with health insurance

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companies, with life insurance

companies, financial institutions.

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They don't have to get their name

on the accounts, they just wanna get

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power of attorney uploaded there so

that when the time does come, if they

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do need to get documents, they're

not having to wait for, um, get power

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of attorney on with these companies.

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'cause I mean, some companies

that can take them six weeks to

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review power of attorney, accept

it, and then send the documents.

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So I think that's the number one

thing that I always tell people.

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Um, and the second thing I

always say is to, uh, few.

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Second thing is online to try and get

online access as soon as their loved

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one is willing, allowing them to get

that, um, to try and get online access.

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And then the third thing I

would say is just to make sure,

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you know, within the past five

years, Medicaid looks at gifting.

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So you just wanna make sure that you know,

you're, everything's accounted for it.

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I would say, you know, maybe

transactions $500 or more.

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Just wanna make sure there's things that

are accounted for, um, in case if Medicaid

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does come back and, and question that.

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah, that's good.

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I'm, I'm a huge power

of attorney advocate.

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Um, we do obviously pretty well.

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Every client that comes in my door is

gonna get a power of attorney, and mine

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is, honestly, it's about 20 something

pages long and I used to be kind of.

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Turned off by how big it was, but

lately, title companies and just

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whoever has told me they like it

and are thankful for it because it

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authorizes us to do what we need to do.

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Especially when I've come to see elder

law and Medicaid planning, like if

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you wanna make a gift to a certain

person, it has to be authorized in

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that power of attorney to actually do.

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Um, and a lot of people don't realize

that, but, and, and then I'll kind of wrap

472

it up here, but I, I just, is there one

particular like client story that comes

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to mind for you where you were really able

to help somebody or, I don't, it doesn't

474

have to necessarily be your biggest, you

know, financial win, but just a, a win for

475

you and your company that comes to mind.

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Tzivya Murrin: Yeah, I think first, just

quickly on the power of attorney, I will

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say that I, I, because I work with so

many different clients, so many different

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attorneys, it's very, very often that

clients say they can't get documents

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because power of attorney isn't accepted.

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And I do a lot of work with you,

and I'm not saying this to toot your

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horn, but I haven't had it at at all.

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And I mean, a lot of your

clients have very complex.

483

Accounts or you know, some not, but

Bing accounts and it hasn't been yet

484

where a client has come forward and

said, well, I can't get this document

485

because power of attorney isn't accepted.

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I need a new power of attorney I

can, I can, I can say that, yes,

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that that's, it's very helpful.

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It prevents families from having to go

back and forth and be frustrated that

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the power of attorney isn't accepted.

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So that is, that is great.

491

Um.

492

Now I understand why 'cause

of the lengthiness, but,

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Ledly Jennings: Yeah.

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Tzivya Murrin: from a successful story,

I feel like, to be honest, I feel like

495

every day is another successful story.

496

Be, um, so I can give a, a latest one

of this was just this week, but we

497

are, um, you know, we, the client was.

498

Uh, the facility applied for the

client and the application got denied

499

for failure to provide documentation.

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we, I got all of the documents from

the client that was submitted to, to

501

Medicaid, reviewed all of the, the

documents and I'm like, I see everything

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there is matching up verifications.

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Everything is was matching up.

504

This was a couple months ago.

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Um, we resubmitted an application and.

506

We were able to, we got, we got the

approval yesterday without having the

507

family needing to gather more documents.

508

So the caseworker did come back a bunch

of time and ask for documents saying,

509

I couldn't see this, or, I couldn't

find this, I couldn't find this.

510

And, you know, it was like

they, they couldn't find.

511

Um, a, a couple of statements

and one couldn't find a health

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insurance letter that they

couldn't find an income statement.

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And, you know, I would

right away send it to them.

514

And this was an example how if we didn't

have that open communication and that

515

dialogue, this family just would've had

another denial It's the caseworkers kind

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of problem in this situation where they're

just not seeing what we're submitting.

517

But again, it's that follow through.

518

And, um, this one, we just got the

approval yesterday, which is why

519

it's, it's in front of my mind.

520

Um, but that was an example of

where I would say, you know, our

521

assistance, the family was looking at.

522

And, and this facility, it

was a little over $500 a day.

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So they were looking at a very,

very hefty bill that, you know,

524

the daughter kept saying she was

losing sleepover, losing sleepover.

525

Um, and basically, you know, we got the

approval and she texted this morning

526

saying she had a better night's sleep

than she's had in a really long time.

527

So, you know, again, I mean, it's just,

it's like that follow up and just knowing

528

that we're here really to advocate

for, for you and, and for your loved

529

one, that's our number one priority.

530

Ledly Jennings: Yeah,

that's, that's great.

531

I love those stories.

532

It's, it's a very rewarding

when you get an approval, um.

533

Yeah, but, and I try to always, I could

talk about Medicaid for days 'cause

534

there's so many questions that I have

and just so many intricacies, but I

535

try to keep these under 30 minutes.

536

So, um, I cannot sing,

uh, tee's praises enough.

537

Her team is, made us a lot

more efficient and reliable.

538

Um, so I thank you for that.

539

And thank you for being on the Good

Steward Law and Wealth podcast today.

540

Tzivya Murrin: Of course.

541

Thank you again for having me, Leslie.

542

Ledly Jennings: Yeah, it was great

to speak with you and until next

543

time guys, uh, I don't know what

we'll cover next, but it'll be

544

something interesting, I'm sure.

545

Thank y'all